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Joe Rogan on Caitlyn Jenner (youtube.com)

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[–]7oba 497ポイント498ポイント  (235子コメント)

"Just because you think one transgender person is a fucking dumbass,
doesn't mean you hate all of them, or you are 'transphobic'."

[–]robshookphoto 141ポイント142ポイント  (209子コメント)

It would be GREAT if threads about Caitlyn were actually like Rogan's views. How did he open?

"I have a theory about all this ultra sensitivity and ultra progressive thinking. All this stuff is very good. ... I think that what it is, is blow back against racisim or sexism or homophobia."

Instead, every thread about her has people insisting on calling her "him" or "Bruce," people quoting articles about how it's a mental disability and trans doesn't exist, and just general complaints about SJWs. THOSE are common here, and people are rightly called transphobic for saying them.

[–]Biorach 311ポイント312ポイント  (163子コメント)

I honestly am transphobic. I can't comprehend why someone would mutilate themselves to such a degree other than if they were mental.

And I know I'm going to get downvoted to shit for this but whatever.

You can chop up your dick and rearrange it all you want but you still have a Y chromosome. You are still a guy.

WITH THAT BEING SAID - I still treat transgender people with respect. I don't understand them, and I may not agree with them, but I can still like them as people.

[–]Jedi_Outcast 155ポイント156ポイント  (47子コメント)

I honestly am transphobic. I can't comprehend why someone would mutilate themselves to such a degree other than if they were mental.

That isn't transphobic.

It's a reasonable reaction to someone drastically changing their bodies.

Don't let people confuse you. Unless you think transgenders are less than people, you're not transphobic.

[–]RockTripod 27ポイント28ポイント  (0子コメント)

I love everything about this thread. Finally, we're talking about a sensitive issue with some grace, some care, and some honesty. People aren't being vilified for thinking outside the prescribed norm, and isn't this exactly the fucking point? Joe Rogan is absolutely, 100% on point. You might be a member of a protected class, be it gay, lesbian, transgender, or whatever. This does not put you beyond criticism if you are still a fucking cunt. It's not a bullet proof vest, it doesn't put you beyond reproach, and again, isn't that the fucking point?

[–]KiloPain 7ポイント8ポイント  (14子コメント)

What would you call the fear of being seduced by and/or marrying a secretly transgender person?

[–]seezed 81ポイント82ポイント  (1子コメント)

Bangcock-Syndrome

[–]Jedi_Outcast 18ポイント19ポイント  (1子コメント)

What would you call the fear of being seduced by and/or marrying a secretly transgender person?

Fear of awkward situations?

It's like every other reason why you wouldn't do the horizontal monster mash with someone.

Just be polite and tell them that you aren't interested.

Also being good at dodging thrown objects couldn't hurt either.

[–]Schizodd 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

You think that's just an "awkward situation?" Being forced to sing karaoke is an awkward situation. If you get in a serious relationship with someone who didn't think their birth gender was necessary to bring up, that's no just an "awkward situation."

I don't know if I'd call it transphobic either, but I think it's some middle ground between that and complete acceptance.

[–]nobody1793 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

Normal.

[–]st1y_wan_kenobi 9ポイント10ポイント  (2子コメント)

not wanting to be fucked over emotionally by a liar/con artist/mental patient?

[–]mirroredfate 9ポイント10ポイント  (0子コメント)

I don't know why you are being downvoted. Someone who seduces another person and marries them while keeping such a large part of themselves secret is kind of a sociopath.

[–]Colony-of-Slipperman 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

yea I still don't get how not disclosing this information is not a form of rape.

[–]offspringftw 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

Sanity I'm kidding pls dont kill me

[–]manicapathy 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

Unreasonable, because it probably won't happen.

コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

    [–]LimesToLimes 5ポイント6ポイント  (10子コメント)

    Well the whole "You're still a guy" bit is transphobic, but at least he admits it.

    [–]rainzer 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Why did the term become phobic anyway? That's dumb. He's not irrationally afraid of transgender people. His explanation is even pretty rational and there's no fear.

    [–]Jedi_Outcast 10ポイント11ポイント  (6子コメント)

    Strictly speaking it's not wrong, but context matters.

    [–]biwithekiwi 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Depends on your definition of "guy" though. Chromosomes are only utilized initially as a sort of blueprint for hormonal coding, so if anything gender is more based on hormones, I.e. Estrogen vs. Testosterone. That is easily replaced. In that sense, once a person switches out hormone sources, they in fact switch genders at a biological level.

    [–]Jellysound 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

    Yeah, because he was talking about chromosomes, which I don't think they alter surgically. (Though I'm no expert.)

    [–]Barva 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

    Of course they don't alter your DNA lol.

    [–]Jellysound 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

    Hey man, I don't know what advancements they've made in science.

    コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

      [–]wetonred24 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

      This is me exactly. I think they are mentally unstable humans. However, I wouldn't treat them with any disrespect.

      [–]SoCal_SUCKS 1ポイント2ポイント  (6子コメント)

      If trans people kinda scare me does that make me transphobic?

      [–]Phookle 15ポイント16ポイント  (0子コメント)

      Phobia is "fear of" so yes.

      [–]Jedi_Outcast 1ポイント2ポイント  (4子コメント)

      If trans people kinda scare me does that make me transphobic?

      Only if you think it means that they should be treated as less than human.

      A little reasonable confusion or curiosity is acceptable.

      [–]bozwald 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

      You keep saying that all over this thread, but the word you're looking for is bigot, not phobia. I don't have arachnophobia if I think that spider lives are less valuable than humans, and intolerant of their 8 legged lifestyle. I have arachnophobia of spiders scare me and make me really anxious whenever I'm around them. Sounds like you're transphobic, but not a bigot. Nothing wrong with that really, but think it's worth using the right language.

      [–]Deeliciousness 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

      What if you just don't like them but still feel they should be treated as equals? Still not transphobic?

      [–]SoCal_SUCKS 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

      No I don't think they should be treated any differently under the law.

      I was just commenting because the use of the suffix 'phobic' implies fear, and could lead to confusion. I've never understood why someone chose to use phobia.

      コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

        [–]ShadoWolf 7ポイント8ポイント  (0子コメント)

        I wouldn't rest your argument to heavily on genetics. For the most part the frame work for Sexual differentiation is actively fluid in mammals.

        reposting one of my comment from a different thread.

        XY and XX isn't really the biggest component when it comes to Sexual differentiation. The Y chromosume simple has the SRY gene that starts the process off. if your a programmer think of it like a build flag.

        But the interesting thing is that a good chunk of our Sexual differentiation is active. in females FOXL2 chromosume 3 :https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forkhead_box_L2[1] If you Silence this gene in mouse models the ovaries turn into a kind of Testes. For Males DMRT1 actively keep testes from becoming Ovaries. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DMRT1[2] http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v476/n7358/full/nature10239.html[3]

        Sex is complicated, likely within the next 10 to 20 years it will be possible to use gene therapy to effect primary sexual characteristic. Coupled with tissue engineering, and the possibility for fully functional sex change will likely be possible.

        [–]TheLetter10 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

        Transgender here. Kept my penis, wife loves it too much. Not all of us want to "mutilate" our bodies.

        [–]nogoodliar 17ポイント18ポイント  (5子コメント)

        That's what's so strange about it. If we are going to accept a transgender a natural extension would be to accept people who can't help but feel uncertain about transgenders. You can't help being scared of spiders, you can't help who you're attracted to, and you can't help who you're not attracted to. As long as you're nice to everyone, who the fuck cares?

        [–]plainpenguin 6ポイント7ポイント  (2子コメント)

        Anyone who's studied Biology even at high school level knows that the definition of sex isn't necessarily as easy as "x and y chromosomes". While this model accuratly reflects reality in most cases, there's still exceptions and can't really be a dfinition of what a sex is. However, believing that sex is a social construction and someone can therefore choose which sex you can be, is some serious bullshit leaking from sociology over to biology and I fucking hate that I have to waste my time on learning that shit. I have nothing against this guy personally and if people believe this guy has become a woman that's their thing, but just don't try to force that shit on me and tell me it's legit science.

        [–]TyPower 40ポイント41ポイント  (61子コメント)

        A man believing himself to be a woman is so obviously a mental disorder.

        If the same man believed he was really Napoleon, everyone would naturally agree that he's delusional, has a mental disorder and should see a psychologist or be put on medication.

        Nobody would say that the best way to cure/treat that man was for society to pretend to him that he was really Napoleon, to make it socially unacceptable for people to tell him that he isn't Napoleon and, furthermore, to "cure" his illness by allowing him to have an operation where doctors would cut six inches of bone off his femurs to shorten him to Napoleon's height.

        Everyone would agree that that'd be a very bad way to deal with the man's mental disorder. Yet somehow it's all different just because the man's delusion is that he's a woman instead of Napoleon?

        This is fucking stupid and goes against common sense.

        [–]wutterbutt 40ポイント41ポイント  (3子コメント)

        I'm pretty sure most people agree its a mental disorder. It's often claimed that they have female brain inside a male body. What if their brain actually IS wired differently. Why is it wrong to change your body rather than change WHO you are? if there was a treatment that made transgenders feel like their natural gender I'm not sure if they would even take it because it would literally be changing who they are.

        [–]jjness 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

        "Mental disorder", colloquially, often means bad, negative, deficient. Most people don't use it to mean the literal meaning of disorder, that is, something outside of order, or in this case, something outside of common mental order.

        So while you might mean mental disorder as a scientific definition, not necessarily implying negative connotation, the person you're replying to seems to be doing the exact opposite.

        コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

          [–]MrMacro 66ポイント67ポイント  (21子コメント)

          Men and women are very different from a biological standpoint, but are created in the exact same way. For there to be a process that occasionally results in a male body with a female oriented mind isn't incredibly ridiculous. As far as I know there is a real, genuine biological basis for transgender people to exist.

          [–]ok_ill_shut_up 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

          People also get all kinds of other disorders from being made wrong.

          [–]FeierInMeinHose 3ポイント4ポイント  (6子コメント)

          Is there really, though? I mean, is there really a biological basis for someone to want to completely altar their body and still not be considered to have a mental disorder? I get the feminine male/masculine female thing, but that's different to wanting to chop off an appendage/add an appendage.

          [–]Bobbybim 5ポイント6ポイント  (5子コメント)

          A theory which I think fits is that during development the brain is exposed to different hormones than the body, and the body develops one way while the brain develops the other. With how complex human development is I dont think it's particularly out of the ordinary for something like this to happen. About the whole "chop off" thing.. It might be strange to think about, but for these people that part of they're body is in direct conflict with what they're brain expects to be there. It's not like Male to Female people always want to take a cleaver and mutilate themselves, they more often than not want to have a qualified surgeon remove it safely. It seems like people get caught up on the sex change process, when honestly if it causes them as much distress as it does, and they want to be responsible and go to someone who has qualifications to help them safely, we should be supporting them.

          Tldr, yes. Hormones and the human development is complex. It's they're body, it doesn't hurt anyone else but them, if at all.

          [–]FeierInMeinHose 3ポイント4ポイント  (4子コメント)

          So you're for letting people who feel they shouldn't have an arm have it removed surgically instead of treating them as a person with a mental disorder? I don't see how the parallels aren't super clear between the two things.

          コメントをもっと表示する (13 返事)

            [–]tehbored 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

            Look if there were a therapy that could effectively cure body dysmorphia we would use it. We don't use hormone therapy and sex reassignment surgery because of some philosophical reason, we use them because they're the only interventions known to science that gives trans people a chance at a happy life.

            [–]A_Pie 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

            It isn't that simple though. You're right that we would classify some one who thought they were napoleon as having a mental disorder and allowing them to become napoleon isn't exactly the greatest idea. He might invade a local grocery store or something. It also may be true that transgender is a mental disorder. However, the depression, anxiety, and other numerous mental disorders that come with being a closeted transgender person may be more detrimental to their life and society than just allowing said person to live in the role they identify with. They pose no threat to anyone else unlike someone who believes they are napoleon. Why spend thousands of dollars on medication for all the other symptoms when some hormones and a change of clothes might do the trick?

            [–]sn0wkitty 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

            I think your argument is flawed. A man who believes he is Napoleon is disconnected from reality. He doesn't know what he actually is. A transgender person knows what their physical gender is, they just feel there is a disparity between that physical gender and the person they feel themselves to be.

            To me it seems largely connected/similar to sexuality, and just as it's laughable to tell a gay person to "just be straight" I don't think it's the right thing to tell a trans person that they're broken and need to be fixed. It is definitely some kind of mental oddity that distinguishes them from your "normal" human being but the fact is there are probably millions of people like this, and it's not just a malfunction - it's who they are. Who are you to tell them that should be taken away from them?

            [–]animalmind 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

            How could you possibly think you're using common sense. The reason society wants to treat transpeople differently than a man who believes to be Napoleon is because there is a pattern of transpeople. Maybe if there were 700,000 people coming out as Napoleon like there are transpeople, society would want to recognize that as being a legitimate way of being human too.

            [–]badmeinberger 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

            Honestly?

            If "Napoleon" is a nice, decent and responsible person, gets his work done, supports his family, isn't violent and doesn't steal, doesn't, y'know, try to invade Prussia or anything, I don't see why I should give a flying fuck how he wants to identify himself.

            Same principle applies to the transgenders.

            [–]Soaringeagle78 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

            You aren't wrong in that it is shown as a mental disorder, but your rant about why you think that the way we treat people who have this disorder is wrong, 'fucking stupid', and 'goes against common sense' lacks any substance to prove why your argument is right at all.

            Some random comparison between someone who believes themselves to be Napoleon and someone who is transgender doesn't prove anything at all. YES! It IS different when a man feels that he isn't the right gender! Shocker. So maybe a gross oversimplification of a devisive issue like that and boiling it down to "it's just a delusion" isn't the first time someone has thought that idea before, and there's a reason why it's outdated. Look up any number of research studies and you'll find that brain structures for folks who claim to be transgender may actually be more in line with the other gender.

            Your way of thinking about the issue and trying to summarize it is outdated and against scientific research.

            [–]outtsider 2ポイント3ポイント  (3子コメント)

            There a biological factors involved with transferred people. Your example with napoleon is complete nonsense.

            [–]HubbaMaBubba 15ポイント16ポイント  (2子コメント)

            There are biological factors with things like schizophrenia too right?

            [–]DeviantAnthro 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

            Napoleon is a real person. Gender is a social construct. Sex is a biological feature.

            A person can not be another real person. A person can have a gender that does not match up with their sex.

            コメントをもっと表示する (22 返事)

              [–]Accipia 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

              Getting a few facts out of the way here: Some people who are transgender elect not to have surgery. Some people with a Y chromosome are born female, because biology is messy and complicated and not binary. Now on to...

              I can't comprehend why someone would mutilate themselves to such a degree other than if they were mental.

              Many transgender people don't understand either, and almost all wish at some point their feelings would just go away... but they don't. You describe this as "being mental", but what does that even mean? In my experience, people most often use this as shorthand for saying "I think transgender people should be treated by psychologists by getting rid of their transgender feelings, not by changing their bodies to fit those feelings". And you know what, that makes a lot of sense. In fact, it makes so much sense that it was the first thing that was tried in terms of mental health treatment for trans people. There is just one problem... it doesn't work. Like with treatments for homosexuality, it just fails to have any significant effect, in spite of the range of treatments that have been tried.

              So gradually, mental health professionals moved away from that, and started seeing if there were other ways to help transgender people cope. They weren't only transgender, after all, depression and suicide were also skyhigh among this group. Turns out, what does work to increase transgender quality of life is acceptance. By themselves, their environment, and professionals. Hormone treatments and surgery make transgender people more productive, more happy members of society, less prone to all sorts of mental health issues. So, that has become the standard treatment in recent years. Is that mental? I don't think so. I don't think society is meaningfully hurt either by letting these people exist and do their thing. In fact, it seems the more you do that, the better the results for everyone involved.

              [–]MarthePryde 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

              As somebody who considers themselves transgender my first reaction was to take umbrage with your post, but honestly I have the same instinctive "please no" reaction with other things.

              Good on you for not being afraid to express your opinion even though there are plenty of people who would in fact relish the chance to lambast you. All I can say is gender is one of the most confusing things in our society and I hope that comes across.

              [–]a_faded_line 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

              And I think that these guys here would be on your side. Why can't you feel that way? Why are your feelings or thoughts invalid ... because they differ from the cultural shift that is now normal? Dude (or dudette, ... look at me being insensitive), it''s okay to ask questions or have uncertainties until you take that away from someone else.

              [–]skinny_b 8ポイント9ポイント  (4子コメント)

              I can't comprehend why someone would mutilate themselves to such a degree other than if they were mental.

              It's because they are mental.

              Dr. Paul R. McHugh, the former psychiatrist-in-chief for Johns Hopkins Hospital and its current Distinguished Service Professor of Psychiatry, said that transgenderism is a “mental disorder” that merits treatment, that sex change is “biologically impossible,” and that people who promote sexual reassignment surgery are collaborating with and promoting a mental disorder.

              http://cnsnews.com/news/article/michael-w-chapman/johns-hopkins-psychiatrist-transgender-mental-disorder-sex-change

              This is the fomer Psychiatrist-in-Chief for Johns Hopkins, one of the most prestigious hospitals in the world, not some Joe Shmoe nobody.

              [–]jjness 7ポイント8ポイント  (2子コメント)

              Sure, there's somebody who held a position of authority stating an opinion, but that means nothing if the majority fo tested and peer-reviewed research before or since then points to different conclusions.

              There's a logical fallacy called "Appeal to Authority" for a reason.

              コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                [–]DNamor 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                You can chop up your dick and rearrange it all you want but you still have a Y chromosome. You are still a guy.

                You can have an XY chromosome and still have female secondary sex characteristics (ie breasts/vagina etc)

                It's also very possible to be XX and have male secondary sex characteristics (ie penis/testes etc)

                You're right in the vast majority of cases, but nothing in nature is quite that simple.

                [–]I_AM_METALUNA 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                He's not chopping anything off and still is sexually attracted to women. I can't help but think it's all for show.

                コメントをもっと表示する (31 返事)

                  [–]TwinkleTwinkie 6ポイント7ポイント  (4子コメント)

                  The one thing out of all of this that has really gotten under my skin is the parents who claim their children, kids, under 10 years old are "Gay", "Lesbian" or "Trans". Your kid is 7 years old and you're already talking about which gender they fuck!? But I'm the fucked up person for thinking that there is something wrong with that.

                  [–]Wholesome230 4ポイント5ポイント  (13子コメント)

                  Yea I posted bout how we should treat Caityln with respect as a person and I got downvoted. Its really weird how reddit is only liberal if it means shitting on conservatives.

                  コメントをもっと表示する (3 返事)

                    コメントをもっと表示する (26 返事)

                      [–]Its_All_In_The_Game 7ポイント8ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      If you're an asshole, you're an asshole it that simple

                      [–]TheOneWithNoName 3ポイント4ポイント  (2子コメント)

                      And the weird thing is, I know several transgender people and all of them would agree with that full heartedly. I really don't ever see these people who think hating 1 trans person is hating all trans people outside the weird fringe groups on tumblr and reddit, and even then I think half of them are trolling.

                      [–]nononoitsfine 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                      "Just ask my black friend, he's totally cool with me saying the n-word!"

                      [–]TheOneWithNoName 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                      Lol, I guess it does come off that way, but it's not really the same thing. It's true though.

                      コメントをもっと表示する (20 返事)

                        [–]QuitBeingLazy 41ポイント42ポイント  (9子コメント)

                        Podcasts are the the only place you can find people telling the truth these days. No real sponsors to upset. Just conversations. No commercial breaks every 3 minutes. I don't care what you listen to, but find a daily podcast. You won't go back.

                        [–]Looploop2128385 14ポイント15ポイント  (4子コメント)

                        The strangest part about podcasts is going back and watching regular media. The ads, product placement, and political correctness is painful to watch.

                        [–]geomachina 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                        I love podcasts, especially since I just got into them the past month or so. I don't listen to music anymore in my car on my way to and from work but I wouldn't say they aren't sponsored or without commercial breaks. Joe Rogans podcast actually turned me way off the first time I tried listening to it a few days ago because the first 10 minutes was just him going through a list of company commercial scripts. Over and over again, from one company to the next, I had to hear their bit coming from Joe Rogan's voice. It was so exhausting.

                        So then I gave another podcast a try and tried to listen to The Nerdist. Yup. Sponsored script reading for extended periods of time, again. I moved on to Startalk, which wasn't as bad but it definitely had "commercials" in between their breaks.

                        Now these aren't as bad as tv or radio commercials (with the exception of that horrible podcast by Joe Rogan) and I'm not bashing podcasts in general, bu they certainly aren't free from advertising. And I get it, the money they get for doing things like this is totally worth it. I would too.

                        コメントをもっと表示する (2 返事)

                          [–]Justsmith22 37ポイント38ポイント  (10子コメント)

                          They raise a great point in this convo.

                          The problem is closed mindedness and not being open to discussion. There are so many people out there with good intentions who actually use that to internally justify their closed mindedness. It's one of the most alienating things to be around these people who don't accept any conflicting viewpoints, regardless of their intent.

                          So often people act like they've figured it all out--that they've discovered the key to morality. They somehow think that despite people thinking about and discussing these things for literally thousands of years that they've figured out the answer to ridiculously subjective ideas. It's absurd. Anything that can't be discussed is complete bull shit. As Socrates said, "the wisest man of all is the man who knows he knows nothing at all" or something. It's a statement still equally as relevant today. The only thing someone can justifiably be closed minded about is their own ignorance.

                          [–]throwtheshitatthem 7ポイント8ポイント  (9子コメント)

                          There are times that being closed minded may inadvertently stop you from getting conned by all the bullshit in the world. I am not going to continue to listen to the same stupid nonsense over and over. Give someone there time and hear them out but if it's bullshit it is just bullshit. For instance in this situation people keep calling him a her...like he is a real woman. He isn't. To be completely honest and straight forward he is a man who had a lot of surgeries to look like a woman but is still not one and unless some insane technologies come out soon then he never will be. In that situation when someone says that to me...I think no that is wrong and won't listen to that shit anymore. If they are honest with me and aren't trying to bullshit me then I a!m fine with whatever they want to be.

                          [–]partcomputer 12ポイント13ポイント  (6子コメント)

                          I have a hypothetical situation for you--I'm not trolling or provoking, I'm being serious. Let's say you work with a person, let's say "Dave", who looks like your average guy, wears button up t-shirts, pants, has a mediocre beard like a lot of younger guys do. They do everything that you identify as being male. Just a normal dude. Now one day you hear from a co-worker that "Dave" was actually born female and went through years of hormone therapy to transition to appear male, so that society would view them as such since that's how they identify themselves.

                          Now, after you found this out, would you start calling Dave "she/her" simply because they were born that way, even though up to that point you had no idea they weren't born a male and completely thought of them as male?

                          The difference between gender and sex is real. One has a societal/psychological basis and one has a biological basis. Pronouns are based on gender (and ostensibly appearance) because we don't walk around checking people's genitals out before deciding to use "she" or "he".

                          [–]Dave_Cool_Yay 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          This is an extremely good way of thinking about things. I honestly had never thought about it from that perspective before.

                          [–]DontLynchMeBro 0ポイント1ポイント  (3子コメント)

                          Now, after you found this out, would you start calling Dave "she/her" simply because they were born that way, even though up to that point you had no idea they weren't born a male and completely thought of them as male?

                          If Dave spent years wearing a kilt and speaking with a Scottish accent, then one day I find out Dave is actually 100% Italian, I'm not going to keep thinking Dave is Scottish, because I'm not a moron.

                          [–]partcomputer 3ポイント4ポイント  (1子コメント)

                          You know that's a flawed metaphor. We call people a pronoun regularly based on how they look. You ever call a person sir or m'am accidentally when they were a different gender? It has nothing to do with their sex. We do that because of what visual clues we're given.

                          It has nothing to do with what you "think someone is", it has to do with what someone presents as. There's a huge difference between you internally thinking about them being born female and intentionally outwardly using pronouns on them that don't make sense based on the way they present themselves.

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                            [–]badmeinberger 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                            Why do you even care if they want to be called a "he" or a "she"?

                            You'll spend a lot more energy arguing about it and getting everyone (including yourself) totally butthurt over something that doesn't even need to be an issue, than if you simply allowed them to identify the way they want.

                            The only place this becomes an issue is in sports. Depending on the sport, it's fair to say that the unique physique of a transgender (especially trans women) gives the athlete an unfair advantage.

                            But beyond that, the pronouns are just words, and there's not a damn thing you can do to stop them using them the way they want to use them.

                            So, y'know. Get over it.

                            コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                              [–]ArthurEhrat 99ポイント100ポイント  (5子コメント)

                              It's more dehumanizing to not tell jokes about somebody, because you are saying " I pity this creature so much that i cant make fun of her"

                              [–]NOhmdD 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                              Go for it. I can take it.

                              [–]Ravenman2423 42ポイント43ポイント  (2子コメント)

                              It's like we watched the same video

                              [–]ArthurEhrat 8ポイント9ポイント  (1子コメント)

                              I was just pointing out something that i think it's important for comedians, and for making a point or discuss something, like when a hear somebody saying how far can a joke go or how far can we discuss this. I think pity is the worst feeling you can have for somebody life, its like you only respect this person because you pity her/him.

                              コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                [–]Mr_Munchausen 45ポイント46ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                I have a theory about all this ultra sensitivity and ultra progressive thinking. All this stuff is very good. ... I think that what it is, is blow back against racisim or sexism or homophobia. It has just gone so far the other way that it's become preposterous, then it will balance out somewhere the middle.

                                [–]Jonmad17 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                Isn't that basically how the Hegelian dialectic works?

                                [–]EmJay115 2ポイント3ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                It's honestly a good theory. I like the way Joe thinks about things. He finds a way to summarize things in a way that makes sense and is hard to argue against. For anyone interested you should definitely check out his podcast, The Joe Rogan Experience.

                                コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                  [–]rockinkingdom 45ポイント46ポイント  (14子コメント)

                                  Here, Bailey Jay, you filthy bastards.

                                  [–]StewieBanana 29ポイント30ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                  Brent Rambo approves

                                  [–]Swineflew1 20ポイント21ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  I remember my first time seeing the gif of her brushing her teeth.
                                  "Holy shit I'd fuck her"
                                  ...
                                  "Holy shit I'd fuck him"

                                  [–]calaber24p 6ポイント7ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                  Shes a pornstar I believe if any of you are extra interested

                                  [–]Cheezy_Ichthyosaur 26ポイント27ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                  Shes a pornstar I believe if any of you are extra interested

                                  "I believe"... Right. We'll go with that. None of us knew who she was and we are sticking to that story.

                                  [–]calaber24p 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                  starts to panic I don't even know who she is. What was her name bailies james?

                                  コメントをもっと表示する (1 返事)

                                    [–]Nefarious- 12ポイント13ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    ^ NSFW

                                    [–]president_clint 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                    Aaaaand now I'm sexually confused

                                    コメントをもっと表示する (5 返事)

                                      [–]motoon 16ポイント17ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      I can't even have my own feelings on this. I can't process this stuff. I have to accept it immediately or I am full of hate. I can change the channel on all this stuff, fortunately.

                                      [–]gfysbro 109ポイント110ポイント  (67子コメント)

                                      I would vote for Joe Rogan.

                                      [–]Ravenman2423 58ポイント59ポイント  (47子コメント)

                                      i think hes a generally cool dude and i think he says a lot of smart things but he can also pull the really dumb thing out of his ass occasionally and make you question everything. his opinion on sports, for example.

                                      [–]SensibleDictator 15ポイント16ポイント  (27子コメント)

                                      his opinion on sports, for example.

                                      What's his opinion on sports?

                                      [–]Toasterss 20ポイント21ポイント  (23子コメント)

                                      He doesn't watch sports other than MMA, so I don't know what the guy above you is on about.

                                      [–]jerseywilcomply 29ポイント30ポイント  (22子コメント)

                                      He says things like baseball isn't a sport it's a game of skill, which every sport involves skill. Sure baseball isn't as exhausting as something like wrestling, but I wouldn't call it a game of skill like table tennis is. Also he complains about what baseball players wear and says it's a stupid uniform. The reason they wear long clothes is because they slide in the grass or dirt, if they didn't they would rip up their skin. That's just one example that comes to mind.

                                      He claims to be open minded but says a lot of stupid ignorant shit on a regular basis, like how he was talking about the pope recently without knowing anything about his life, or his political views, or the fact that this pope actually practices what he preaches. I'd like how much more if he really did some research or if he apoligized for being wrong sometimes. He seems more like that LA open minded where its only open minded if you believe what all the liberals out there believe.

                                      [–]sakiwebo 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                      He's quite biased when it comes to MMA. I like the guy, and I even like his comedy material. However, I've learned to enjoy the things he says, but take his views with a pinch of salt.

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                                        [–]nevergotgold 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                        I agree with a lot of things he says, but he seems like the type of person that would just talk over anyone who disagrees with him and walks off with a smug look thinking, "Yeah I totally showed that guy".

                                        [–]trumpsta 3ポイント4ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                        or conspiracy theories, like for example, how he spent 3 fucking hours talking/saying to Neil Degrasse Tyson about the moon landing being faked

                                        [–]Slemo 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                        That pissed me off beyond belief. Like seriously dude, you bring a goddamned astrophysicist on the show and you spend 40 minutes talking about the goddamned flag waving on the moon. I'm sure Neil was trying really hard to not drop science on Joe.

                                        [–]trumpsta 4ポイント5ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                        Tyson was totally cool about it and explained it in multiple ways and made several attempts to move on, but Rogan wouldn't fucking let it go, would he...

                                        Like there is so much cool shit to ask him and talk to him about, and you choose the moon landing is fake?!

                                        I like Rogan, listen to his podcasts sometimes, but he says a lot of retarded shit, and for someone that is 'open minded' can be quite fucking stubborn.

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                                            [–]Pasty-torso 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                            My favourite thing about Joe Rogan is his continued selling of Alpha Brain "to keep his brain healthy"

                                            If that shit actually worked you would be smart enough to not take pills that have:

                                            1) a single clinical test

                                            2)that they ran themselves

                                            3)which contained 17 participants

                                            4) and the best they could do was manipulate the data to maybe show a little bit of improvement.

                                            His actual quote on the Onnit website about alpha brain is:

                                            "it seems to fire your brain up to a higher RPM level ... I feel like it helps me form sentences better" What does that even mean?

                                            This is also a person that fell wholesale into bullet proof coffee, told his listeners not to drink regular coffee because it has mycotoxins. Ok you can say that he went back on bulletproof coffee. But his supplement company still sells it.

                                            I think Joe falls into the trap of trying way to hard to have an open mind. He gets really into alternative medicines, and alternative theories, and alternative explanations for things because he wants to have an open mind. And often he'll try to sell things to his listeners with "you should have an open mind about these things". What someone actually means when they say that is "You should accept what I'm saying without thinking about it to critically". At least most of the time that's what they mean.

                                            He also believed that the moon landing was faked, and believes some bullshit about the building of the pyramids that I can't be bothered to look up. I say all this as a fan of Joe Rogan. I like his show, I like him. But given the size of his show, and how many people take the things that he says as gospel. I wish he would be a little more careful what he spouts as truth.

                                            [–]slabby 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            Seriously. I like Joe, but he's a bit of a conspiracy theorist stoner, and sometimes it clouds his judgment. But I suspect that he doesn't always say what he thinks is actually true or most reasonable, but what is most entertaining. and I can't begrudge him that; he's an entertainer, first and foremost.

                                            [–]Dolewhip 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            If you keep your mind too open, your brain will fall out.

                                            [–]powercorruption 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            he can also pull the really dumb thing out of his ass occasionally and make you question everything. his opinion on sports, for example.

                                            Dude has one of the worst tastes and opinions on music and film. Especially music.

                                            [–]WeaponsGradeHumanity 2ポイント3ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                            You know, it's true that he's not always on the right track with stuff but I think he's at least sensible enough to listen to experts and that alone is enough to put him ahead of a lot of politicians.

                                            [–]enmartin29 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                            yea there's been times when a certain topic comes up that I am quite experienced in and I find myself just saying "no...wrong joe rogan...nope". A lot of his guests tend to agree with him on a lot of things so you also don't hear much debate.

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                                              [–]pmckizzle 98ポイント99ポイント  (12子コメント)

                                              eh, he can be really fucking 'edgy'.

                                              [–]president_clint 4ポイント5ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                              Like 95% of the time I think he's one of the most down to earth humanbeings on the planet. That other 5% though..

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                                                [–]felixjmorgan 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                He has an interesting perspective at life but he does say some dumb stuff, and often gets caught up in himself. He's a weird combination of being very open minded while simultaneously being incredibly dogmatic.

                                                [–]Tszemix 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                Nah, the power would just turn him insane, considering that he has a very impulsive character.

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                                                  [–]ShawnisMaximus 8ポイント9ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                  What's the name of the guy he's talking to in this? I remember seeing some of his stand up and he's hilarious.

                                                  [–]seekoon 5ポイント6ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                  Slavoj Zizek: Political Correctness is a More Dangerous Form of Totalitarianism.

                                                  [–]Jonmad17 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  He contributes to that system himself. He called Black Swan sexist because it adheres to the ancient trope that hardworking women end up losing their minds and dying, except that the director has made a career of telling stories about obsession leading downfall with both male and female protagonists. Zizek is part of the problem.

                                                  [–]GeassControl 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  Wtf is wrong with him. Get that man 150cc of cocaine stat.

                                                  [–]EllenPaoIsALyingCunt 12ポイント13ポイント  (5子コメント)

                                                  Jeans up.

                                                  [–]nnnonline 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                  Joe's theory is obviously that, a theory, but it makes a lot of sense. We've seen cultural movements swing one way and then the manifestation of its counter-culture over correct throughout history. So I really hope Joe's right in that it'll all balance itself out soon.

                                                  I think many of us--or maybe it's just me--are tired of this weird thing happening in society right now where we overact by either criminalizing or lionizing a person having witness one small glimpse of his/her life, which can be dangerous. We've criticized the media for sensationalism, yet we do the same.

                                                  "He gave someone food that was hungry, he must be the nicest guy in the world." Or, "She yelled at this person unprovoked; she must be a huge cunt."

                                                  But aren't we over simplifying humans to a fault. Most people I know are very rarely one clear cut thing. I try to be a nice guy, but also am a huge asshole when I'm having a bad day. I sometimes give to the poor, but still would much rather buy a new iPhone if I had to choose only one.

                                                  to;dr My point is, I feel like, for some reason, something's changed and we don't try to see people as people. We're so eager to oversimplify someone as either all good or all bad. And then get a kick out of others who join in so we feel accepted by those who share our point of view.

                                                  I really hope this changes soon for sake of all of us. And, for the time being, God forbid any of us fall victim to this in the negative.

                                                  P.S. I get that sometimes people criticize others as a release when they've been wronged. But, I think that stems from a distancing created by technology today that lets us freely share our view without having to listen to others.

                                                  P.P.S. Prof. Sherry Turkle has a great book called "Alone Together" that explains the cultural distancing thing.

                                                  [–]famishedpanda 60ポイント61ポイント  (17子コメント)

                                                  Dude you PC bro?

                                                  [–]notabook 140ポイント141ポイント  (26子コメント)

                                                  Caitlyn Jenner is a beautiful, stunning and brave woman. And she is a hero.

                                                  [–]donteatmysandwich 120ポイント121ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                  PC Arizona State bro.

                                                  [–]TheDashingDark 15ポイント16ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                  You know. I learned something today...

                                                  [–]Captain_Titty_Clap 1ポイント2ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                  I've always wanted to be a hero, if I turn my dick into a vagina can I be one too?

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                                                    [–]creturbob 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    Howard Stern's view is also interesting

                                                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGs3U26XDIw

                                                    [–]Dingid_Forester 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    the pity point is the most important part i think.. people get too sensitive over topics like someone being transgender, then they are overly sensitive towards the person and dehumanizing them. people who are transgender go through struggles no doubt, but they just want to embrace who they are and feel like a normal human at the same time.

                                                    caitlyn jenner knew how people would react, and took full advantage of it by immediately having a reality show about herself and doing the diane sawyer interview. even the "bravery" award she won was set up.. i'm surprised that joe didn't mention that part. for anyone who knows how celebrities like the kardashians make so much money, it was obvious from the start that caitlyn was using the sensitive issue of gender acceptance for her own personal gain and that is just selfish and in bad taste.

                                                    the transgender community deserves a better "face" and someone genuine to look up to. caitlyn jenner was simply trying to put herself in the spotlight and get attention so she could make money. she took advantage of how strongly people feel about trans acceptance, and did everything she could to make money off of it.

                                                    [–]Muffinizer1 8ポイント9ポイント  (2子コメント)

                                                    I think we're all in agreement here and Joe made a good point, but it's not anything new to the discussion. I think its about time we just let this whole issue die.

                                                    Not only that, but the Caitlyn Jenner thing falls into a broader category of issues that we're all sick of hearing about, that IMO can be boiled down to this:

                                                    There's a group of people who want to feel powerful and important and using their weird form of fascism to make anything but a very specific viewpoint non-pc is their way to fill that desire. There's people who want equality and change, and then there's people who want power by being the moral arbiters of society and the big issue is that we need to do a better job of telling the two groups apart. The problem is that both groups are kind of co-dependent. The fascists take ideas from the people who want actual social justice and bastardize them, and there are people who actually want social justice that have been manipulated to actually believe the fascists.

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                                                    [–]sxf 3ポイント4ポイント  (7子コメント)

                                                    What does PC mean?

                                                    [–]Gornil 13ポイント14ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    Personal computer

                                                    [–]nicethingyoucanthave 8ポイント9ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    "Politically Correct" - it's a term invented by totalitarian communists (for example, Stalinists) to describe thoughts and words that, while not necessarily strictly true, where in line with what the communist party insisted that you believe.

                                                    For example, saying "the west is decadent" is politically correct. Doesn't matter if it's true or not.

                                                    [–]jeffydomer 5ポイント6ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    POWER CUNT

                                                    [–]CyanSheepMedia 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                    PC stands for pleasant... C.

                                                    [–]enmartin29 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                    I too watch every video on /r/videos

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                                                      [–]Sugreev2001 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      I agree with Joe. I'm so fucking sick of the Jenner/Kardashian attention-whore of a family. I wish one of them says or does something stupid that they're just thrust away from public consciousness.

                                                      [–]agentndo 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                      Good stuff. I'm very socially progressive but the desire for censorship of opinions contrary to the progressive bible is short-sighted and in contrast to educating others, tolerance, and preserving freedom. If someone expresses that coming out as trans isn't a big deal or is weird, it makes more sense to engage and educate that person than to demonize them and witchhunt on social media. After talking with someone, if they still don't get it or strongly disagree, who cares? It's just as backwards as having a religious conservative decide I'm not a good person because of my views on abortion. Why should it be any different just because they're your special opinions?

                                                      [–]redsectoreh 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      Like Climate Change, your opinion on how Gender Identity works is very likely not relevant. This is why discussion is shut down on the validity of trans identities, the scientific community has already decided what the evidence points to, and the layman's high school biology does not enter into the conversation. Religion and society play huge roles in the acceptance of Trans identities and climate change-- anti-intellectualism and faith work hand-in-hand to sow distrust in some of our best and brightest.

                                                      Just like climate change, science is based on data, and the scientific method. Not how you feel.

                                                      If on the off chance you are well-educated on the subject (years of formal learning + background, like the Doctors advocating transitioning) you can form an educated opinion, and you'd probably create a study based on your hypothesis-- but discussing it without that basis is a waste of energy.

                                                      [–]fourbet 6ポイント7ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                      After much time on the internet I have determined that the average avowed internet progressive is more concerned with showing you how morally / intellectually superior they are rather than actually promoting tolerance or even promoting their worldview to anyone who feels differently.

                                                      To a certain extent all ideologues do this, but with progressivism in particular you'll see a lot more blatant hypocrisy.

                                                      [–]st1y_wan_kenobi 4ポイント5ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      you are %100 correct.

                                                      all these little shit eating SJW outrage hunters are just playing a game of one-upping one another on how "offended" they can be and how much of a SJW they can be.

                                                      they don't even really believe half the shit that come out of their mouths/keyboards... they just like to hear/see themselves be something they think will make them popular with the horde.

                                                      it's a symptom of the whole twitfacetagram generation where they construct these virtual temples of narcissism to show everyone else how "evolved" they are.

                                                      it's the overall symptom of wanting to "go viral" and be famous for having an opinion that fits with the narrative...

                                                      it's like that neighborhood kid who waits for cars to drive by then tries to make a basket, or jump a little bullshit ramp on the sidewalk... thinking that someone is going to recognise them for what a special little snowflake they really are.

                                                      it's pathetisad.

                                                      [–]manbrasucks 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      This same argument could easily be the said about FPH.

                                                      It was blow back against "fat acceptance/fat=healthy" and it went so far the other way it became preposterous and would eventually balance out in the middle.

                                                      Was that the intention of FPH? Was that the Goal? Some probably thought so others were just full of hate and enjoyed an outlet.

                                                      I just think the parallels are interesting.

                                                      [–]BoogerSlug 3ポイント4ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                      It's refreshing to hear South Park and now Joe Rogan bringing up the fact that voicing any opinion that doesn't fall in line with the PC tumblr crowd results in harassment, and your personal info being doxxed. There's no conversation to be had with them, you either aimlessly accept what they believe or they try and shut you down.

                                                      [–]Viater 3ポイント4ポイント  (29子コメント)

                                                      You gotta love Mr. Rogan. Guy is incredibly smart and has a great way of looking at things.

                                                      [–]wewereddit 83ポイント84ポイント  (28子コメント)

                                                      I don't think he's incredibly smart.

                                                      [–]spbx 14ポイント15ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                      I think a lot of people mistake the fact that he's very well spoken for him being intelligent. Yes, I think he's smart, but he's a smooth talker at the same time.

                                                      [–]NihlusKryik 35ポイント36ポイント  (15子コメント)

                                                      he's street smart in sort of an old school way. not educated per se, but he's sharp.

                                                      [–]TheDiplo 0ポイント1ポイント  (6子コメント)

                                                      Lol how can you say that? The dude is a successful stand up comedian and writer, runs a very popular podcast, has traveled the world, is healthy and on top of his health he regularly works out and is trained in mixed martial-arts. What are you doing with your life where you can say a successful person "isn't smart" or do you think he was handed everything? Because I like to think hard work goes hand in hand with intelligence.

                                                      [–]F-0X 5ポイント6ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                      To be honest, all that says to me is he's just not an idiot. Nothing in there I would say necessarily means he's smart.

                                                      [–]wewereddit 3ポイント4ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                      Didn't say he wasnt smart just saying he isnt incredibly smart.

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                                                          [–]4mandalyn 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                          just sayin', trans people don't give a shit about caitlyn jenner neeeearly as much as cis people seem to. ive watched hundreds of joe's podcasts and they talk about trans people in a huge amount of episodes. it makes me cringe pretty hard most of the time, but joe's views have gotten a lot less cunty but he still comes off as a complete dick when you are a trans chick and a fan.

                                                          [–]martensit 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                          huge amount? Probably 5 podcasts since all this Jenner hype came up and little remarks otherwise.

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                                                            [–]mitchh300 1ポイント2ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                            "There's one thing you may not know about me Joe Rogan... I smoke rocks."

                                                            [–]Zinski 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Here is the thing, there are so many trans people out in the world today, openly or not, and the fact they have some one to look up to as a sort of inspiration to say "hey, its ok to be who you are" thats great.

                                                            Honestly if it can help out a few people in the long run I can deal with all the bull shit on tv and what not, becasue its not that hard to avoid... like just change the show shes on or somthing

                                                            [–]5_sec_rule 1ポイント2ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Americans have bent so far backwards to try to be PC about everything, that their heads went up their asses. When teens talk about racism, it's the same hatred toward the racists. They don't see that the hate is still there. These PC causes always focus on the negative and banning things. There's hardly ever anything positive when it comes to these PC crusades. It's all negative bullshit, whining, shaming attention whoring shit. When I was younger, I was always told to look for the good. Teens nowadays are just focusing on the bad (the non-PC) shit.

                                                            [–]BabiesTasteGreat -1ポイント0ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                            Women are born with vaginas... deal with it.

                                                            [–]MutthaFuzza 1ポイント2ポイント  (3子コメント)

                                                            I don't watch Rogan that often, who are the other two people with him?

                                                            [–]DriftUnit 6ポイント7ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Tom Segura and Christina Pazsitzky

                                                            [–]fourbet 2ポイント3ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Tom Segura is pretty funny. I'm not a huge comedy fan so I can't even accurately gauge how popular he is but he's one of the only reasons I check out JRE on occasion.

                                                            Would recommend checking out some of his stuff if you're bored or looking for new comedy.

                                                            [–]Axwellington88 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Joe usually has some sort of MMA athlete , comedian, or someone else on his show. I personally love his podcast

                                                            [–]bat32391 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                            Whose the fighter they were talking about near the end of the video?

                                                            [–]ExcerptMusic 0ポイント1ポイント  (0子コメント)

                                                            Joe Rogan has such a quality show.

                                                            [–]accelangel4 0ポイント1ポイント  (1子コメント)

                                                            woah I didn't know she killed someone. Fuck.

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