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all 13 comments

[–]iBstoneyDaveR7 1700 @3.8 | 16GB3200 | RX580 8G 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Thanks dude, very helpful. Was starting to get a headache from all the "bits and pieces" articles out there contradicting each other.

[–]tomun 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Here's AMD's own page on Spectre and Meltdown. https://www.amd.com/en/corporate/speculative-execution

[–]Pie-in-Sky 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes I saw that, however it is sparse on details and as the saying goes "the devil is in the details".

[–]BadReIigionRyzen 7 2 points3 points  (0 children)

thanks!

[–]RaptaGzusXeon X5670 @ 4.4Ghz | PowerColor PCS+ R9 290 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Cheers!

For anyone with questions, there might be some answered here: https://meltdownattack.com/

An ELI5 on Meltdown:

In Intel CPUs certain instructions are executed before they are checked (aka speculatively [automatically]) which can increase CPU performance depending on the task. Attackers can exploit this blind eye on checking and trick the CPU into execute instructions which make the CPU reveal bits of data stored in memory. By repeating this process over and over, an attacker could retrieve all of the data stored in memory, which can include things such as passwords.

The software fix stops this speculative (unchecked) execution of instructions, however impacts performance in two ways while doing so; (1) because instructions aren't executed without checking so can't be completed as fast, and (2) because it's a software fix which is not as efficient as a hardware one. This is why general performance impact on systems which do a lot of context switching (e.g. running lots of virtual machines) can see an up to 30% impact on performance or more, depending on the task run.

Fortunately, things which do little context switching like user applications (e.g. video editing, encoding, playing games, and browsing) generally have no performance impacted.

Also, since AMD processors (Zen at least) don't speculatively execute instructions, they don't need the software fix applied so don't lose out on any performance.

More in-depth information on Meltdown here: https://meltdownattack.com/meltdown.pdf

[–]spacemanspiff888i7 7700k | GTX 1080Ti | 16GB 3000MHz [score hidden]  (0 children)

Also, since AMD processors (Zen at least) don't speculatively execute instructions, they don't need the software fix applied so don't lose out on any performance.

I've read this from multiple sources, but I've yet to see confirmation that Windows won't simply implement a blanket fix that affects performance for everyone regardless of hardware. Does anyone yet know, or are there any benchmarks on AMD systems running Windows that show a before and after confirming this one way or the other?

[–]Pie-in-Sky 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Thanks for supplying this.

How likely is it that variant 1 will be exploited in the real world for AMD processors like FX or Phenom? Or is it mostly academic?

[–]Amdestroyer94AMD 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Amd has already stated that they have fixed variant 1 with patch with negligible performance impact

[–]KromaatikseRyzen 1300X + RX480 Red Devil[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Given the nature of the attack, I'd be very interested to see how they did that.

EDIT: I've found some hints on how to mitigate both variants of Spectre, and added them to the main post.

[–]okinsahn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

was this confirmation through the press release yesterday? ie they were saying none of their processors are impacted?

[–]KromaatikseRyzen 1300X + RX480 Red Devil[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can see it being used as part of another attack, but it's not something I'd worry about too much. For most end-users, the fact that browsers now widely use process separation closes the biggest attack surface, which exists because browsers have JIT compilers (for Javascript).

[–]RedPetrichor [score hidden]  (1 child)

Thanks a lot!

Could you explain what Alex Ionescu is talking about in these two tweets about the patches ?

https://twitter.com/aionescu/status/948818841747955713

https://twitter.com/aionescu/status/948817335980142592

[–]KromaatikseRyzen 1300X + RX480 Red Devil[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

I have no idea what the first one's about. The second one appears to refer to "retpolines".

π Rendered by PID 126066 on app-192 at 2018-01-04 15:18:13.647011+00:00 running d7891c4 country code: JP.

this post was submitted on
87 points (97% upvoted)

Amd

95,022 readers

3,332 users here now

/r/AMD Community

AMD Official Community

Filters: AMD CPU APU GPU NEWS REVIEW RUMOR PHOTO

Latest Drivers & Tech Support

General Information

Welcome to /r/AMD! In this subreddit, we discuss and share news, rumors, ideas, and knowledge relating to AMD, their hardware and software products, and the silicon industry.

Please note that this subreddit is community run and does not represent AMD unless otherwise specified.

Rules

Rule 1: Tech support questions are only allowed in tech support megathreads and must instead be posted at /r/AMDHelp or /r/techsupport . Any other tech support posts will be removed at moderator discretion.

Rule 2: No referral links, including Amazon! Product links are fine, affiliate or referral links that benefit you are not.

Rule 3: Be civil and obey reddiquette. Please remember that behind every poster is a human. This means no brigade incitements, personal attacks, etc.

Rule 4: Use of slurs of any kind, racial, homophobic, or whatever, in any context will result in a ban. This includes derogatory comments such as "retard". There's no need for petty insults on this sub.

Rule 5: All posts must be related to AMD or AMD products. Example of okay: RX480 vs 1060. Not okay: GTX 1060 vs 1080.

Rule 6: No religion/politics! There are plenty of other places for that.

Rule 7: Use original sources. Copypasta articles sourced from other websites are not allowed. Quotes are fine, but pasting the entire article in a textpost is not. Original articles are always better than a reddit textpost.

Rule 8: Shitposts, memes, and plain box pictures are not allowed as linkposts (you can still include them within normal posts or comments). Visit /r/AyyMD for dank shitposts and memes. Strawpolls are not allowed.

Rule 9: The moderators of /r/AMD reserve the right to allow posts or comments that could technically break rules #1 (tech support) or #8 (no memes), when a situation has arisen where the post is especially necessary, funny, educational, or useful to the users of the subreddit. Reports are always welcome, but remember that content sometimes remains up due to this rule, rather than because of lack of moderator work.

Rule 10: No bamboozling

Links

Related Subreddits

/r/hardware
/r/Intel
/r/NVIDIA

/r/PCGaming
/r/PCMasterRace
/r/ultrawidemasterrace

/r/AyyMD

/r/AMDHelp
/r/techsupport

/r/AMD_Stock

created by jecroisModeratora community for
message the moderators

MODERATORS

×
all 13 comments

[–]iBstoneyDaveR7 1700 @3.8 | 16GB3200 | RX580 8G 9 points10 points  (0 children)

Thanks dude, very helpful. Was starting to get a headache from all the "bits and pieces" articles out there contradicting each other.

[–]tomun 6 points7 points  (1 child)

Here's AMD's own page on Spectre and Meltdown. https://www.amd.com/en/corporate/speculative-execution

[–]Pie-in-Sky 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes I saw that, however it is sparse on details and as the saying goes "the devil is in the details".

[–]BadReIigionRyzen 7 2 points3 points  (0 children)

thanks!

[–]RaptaGzusXeon X5670 @ 4.4Ghz | PowerColor PCS+ R9 290 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Cheers!

For anyone with questions, there might be some answered here: https://meltdownattack.com/

An ELI5 on Meltdown:

In Intel CPUs certain instructions are executed before they are checked (aka speculatively [automatically]) which can increase CPU performance depending on the task. Attackers can exploit this blind eye on checking and trick the CPU into execute instructions which make the CPU reveal bits of data stored in memory. By repeating this process over and over, an attacker could retrieve all of the data stored in memory, which can include things such as passwords.

The software fix stops this speculative (unchecked) execution of instructions, however impacts performance in two ways while doing so; (1) because instructions aren't executed without checking so can't be completed as fast, and (2) because it's a software fix which is not as efficient as a hardware one. This is why general performance impact on systems which do a lot of context switching (e.g. running lots of virtual machines) can see an up to 30% impact on performance or more, depending on the task run.

Fortunately, things which do little context switching like user applications (e.g. video editing, encoding, playing games, and browsing) generally have no performance impacted.

Also, since AMD processors (Zen at least) don't speculatively execute instructions, they don't need the software fix applied so don't lose out on any performance.

More in-depth information on Meltdown here: https://meltdownattack.com/meltdown.pdf

[–]spacemanspiff888i7 7700k | GTX 1080Ti | 16GB 3000MHz [score hidden]  (0 children)

Also, since AMD processors (Zen at least) don't speculatively execute instructions, they don't need the software fix applied so don't lose out on any performance.

I've read this from multiple sources, but I've yet to see confirmation that Windows won't simply implement a blanket fix that affects performance for everyone regardless of hardware. Does anyone yet know, or are there any benchmarks on AMD systems running Windows that show a before and after confirming this one way or the other?

[–]Pie-in-Sky 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Thanks for supplying this.

How likely is it that variant 1 will be exploited in the real world for AMD processors like FX or Phenom? Or is it mostly academic?

[–]Amdestroyer94AMD 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Amd has already stated that they have fixed variant 1 with patch with negligible performance impact

[–]KromaatikseRyzen 1300X + RX480 Red Devil[S] 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Given the nature of the attack, I'd be very interested to see how they did that.

EDIT: I've found some hints on how to mitigate both variants of Spectre, and added them to the main post.

[–]okinsahn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

was this confirmation through the press release yesterday? ie they were saying none of their processors are impacted?

[–]KromaatikseRyzen 1300X + RX480 Red Devil[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I can see it being used as part of another attack, but it's not something I'd worry about too much. For most end-users, the fact that browsers now widely use process separation closes the biggest attack surface, which exists because browsers have JIT compilers (for Javascript).

[–]RedPetrichor [score hidden]  (1 child)

Thanks a lot!

Could you explain what Alex Ionescu is talking about in these two tweets about the patches ?

https://twitter.com/aionescu/status/948818841747955713

https://twitter.com/aionescu/status/948817335980142592

[–]KromaatikseRyzen 1300X + RX480 Red Devil[S] [score hidden]  (0 children)

I have no idea what the first one's about. The second one appears to refer to "retpolines".

π Rendered by PID 49190 on app-152 at 2018-01-04 15:18:07.051820+00:00 running d7891c4 country code: JP.