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HPMOR

10,518 readers

12 users here now

The most recent (and last) Chapter is 122 from March 14, 2015.

The unofficial subreddit for "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality" by Eliezer Yudkowsky (aka "Less Wrong").

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."

Latest chapter: 122


Links


Subreddit Rules

In order to avoid spoilers:

  • No spoilers in thread titles
  • Mark your thread in the title with a chapter number if you want to discuss spoilers
  • Use spoiler tags (see below) if your comment is going to discuss anything that isn't covered by the thread's spoiler warning, and make it clear what you're spoiling
  • If Eliezer retracts a Word of God then please don't discuss it without warning other readers that this is a spoiler even if you've read all chapters (go ahead and talk about what he actually said so long as it's plausible that you would have anyway)
  • Please don't spoil other stories, except canon Harry Potter

We'll post a little sticky thing at the top of the subreddit when new chapters are released to warn everyone, but please be sure not to let spoilers from new chapters leak into threads that aren't labelled with the new chapter's number. Untagged posts and comments that spoil recent developments or things that Eliezer doesn't wish posted yet will be EXTERMINATED on sight, with a polite notice to the conspirator about the importance of secrecy in maintaining a good conspiracy.

To use spoiler tags, type:

[Spoiler](#s "Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres")

to get:

Spoiler

You can (and are encouraged to) replace the word 'Spoiler' to specify the nature of the spoiler, for example:

Ch2


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all 8 comments

[–]LeifCarrotson 17 points18 points  (4 children)

I think some of the difference is just realism that's more present in Ender's Game and HPMOR than canon. Realistic characters are not as innately, internally evil as canon Draco, nor as devoid of personal agency as canon Hermione.

[–]The_Magus_199Chaos Legion 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Devoid of... are we thinking of the same canon? I love HPMOR, but when it comes down to it, it's in canon where pretty much all of the work gets done by Hermione, rather than her being largely shunted to being The Heart more than The Smart Girl.

[–]fader2011Chaos Legion[S] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Which is kind of what I was thinking of when I said that the differences make HPMOR!Hermione somewhat more like Valentine Wiggin than canon!Hermione was. JKR's Hermione is the Good Student of the trio in terms of her preference for following rules and deference for the Hogwarts faculty (at least by comparison with Harry and Ron), but she's not over-blessed with empathy and kindness -- she can be bossy, bad-tempered, rude, and even vindictive at times. (Remember the "SNEAK" jinx?)

The way that HPMOR!Draco resembles Peter, to my eyes, is his skill at manipulating people. The canonical Draco does not act like someone who's already had several years of tutoring in the political arts of influence and blackmail; Eliezer's Draco does, at least some of the time. For example, canon!Draco would have taken umbrage at Harry's description of Lucius when he and Harry meet for the second time on the platform; HPMOR!Draco lets the accusation that Lucius was a true Death Eater and the overt insult "evil with a capital E" pass, and is far more interested in where Harry got his information than in avenging the honor of House Malfoy. Peter, similarly, is not one to let his ego get in the way of his self-interest most of the time.

[–]The_Magus_199Chaos Legion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I can definitely see that.

[–]kairisika 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah, as well-rounded "good" and "evil" characters I can maybe see a bit of comparison, but I definitely don't see any actual comparison to the Wiggins.

[–]DuplexFieldsSunshine Regiment 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Good catch! I think it's likely there was at least subconscious borrowing. However, it's also useful to note that Harry James Potter-Verres-Evans' Hero archetype is The Undecided; his path isn't set, unlike Superman and Frodo for example. In such cases, Peter/Draco and Val/Hermoine fall easily into the roles of the angels on the shoulder. In other words, both pairs are examples of the larger Goldilocks archetype.

[–]fader2011Chaos Legion[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That is a good point, although Draco never appears to have any real chance of influencing Harry; if Hermione is the angel on his right shoulder, the devil on his left is Professor Quirrell, not Draco. (He even lampshades that talking to Dumbledore in Chapter 77:

"Don't worry, Headmaster," said the boy. "I haven't gotten my wires crossed. I know that I'm supposed to learn goodness from Hermione and Fawkes, not from Professor Quirrell and you."

[–]DuplexFieldsSunshine Regiment 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In the more traditional iconography, maybe. But the "Harry between Hermione and Draco" is more about attitudes and methods than strategic goals. Ender was never going to be nasty Peter or pure Valentine; his struggle was between Graff as the self-righteous Dumbledore, and the Queen in his dreams.

π Rendered by PID 66938 on app-335 at 2017-12-17 11:21:07.406516+00:00 running bedae52 country code: JP.

this post was submitted on
43 points (96% upvoted)

HPMOR

10,518 readers

12 users here now

The most recent (and last) Chapter is 122 from March 14, 2015.

The unofficial subreddit for "Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality" by Eliezer Yudkowsky (aka "Less Wrong").

"World domination is such an ugly phrase. I prefer to call it world optimisation."

Latest chapter: 122


Links


Subreddit Rules

In order to avoid spoilers:

  • No spoilers in thread titles
  • Mark your thread in the title with a chapter number if you want to discuss spoilers
  • Use spoiler tags (see below) if your comment is going to discuss anything that isn't covered by the thread's spoiler warning, and make it clear what you're spoiling
  • If Eliezer retracts a Word of God then please don't discuss it without warning other readers that this is a spoiler even if you've read all chapters (go ahead and talk about what he actually said so long as it's plausible that you would have anyway)
  • Please don't spoil other stories, except canon Harry Potter

We'll post a little sticky thing at the top of the subreddit when new chapters are released to warn everyone, but please be sure not to let spoilers from new chapters leak into threads that aren't labelled with the new chapter's number. Untagged posts and comments that spoil recent developments or things that Eliezer doesn't wish posted yet will be EXTERMINATED on sight, with a polite notice to the conspirator about the importance of secrecy in maintaining a good conspiracy.

To use spoiler tags, type:

[Spoiler](#s "Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres")

to get:

Spoiler

You can (and are encouraged to) replace the word 'Spoiler' to specify the nature of the spoiler, for example:

Ch2


Related subreddits:

created by jaiwithaniSunshine Regiment Generala community for
message the moderators

MODERATORS

×

This is an archived post. You won't be able to vote or comment.

all 8 comments

[–]LeifCarrotson 17 points18 points  (4 children)

I think some of the difference is just realism that's more present in Ender's Game and HPMOR than canon. Realistic characters are not as innately, internally evil as canon Draco, nor as devoid of personal agency as canon Hermione.

[–]The_Magus_199Chaos Legion 9 points10 points  (2 children)

Devoid of... are we thinking of the same canon? I love HPMOR, but when it comes down to it, it's in canon where pretty much all of the work gets done by Hermione, rather than her being largely shunted to being The Heart more than The Smart Girl.

[–]fader2011Chaos Legion[S] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Which is kind of what I was thinking of when I said that the differences make HPMOR!Hermione somewhat more like Valentine Wiggin than canon!Hermione was. JKR's Hermione is the Good Student of the trio in terms of her preference for following rules and deference for the Hogwarts faculty (at least by comparison with Harry and Ron), but she's not over-blessed with empathy and kindness -- she can be bossy, bad-tempered, rude, and even vindictive at times. (Remember the "SNEAK" jinx?)

The way that HPMOR!Draco resembles Peter, to my eyes, is his skill at manipulating people. The canonical Draco does not act like someone who's already had several years of tutoring in the political arts of influence and blackmail; Eliezer's Draco does, at least some of the time. For example, canon!Draco would have taken umbrage at Harry's description of Lucius when he and Harry meet for the second time on the platform; HPMOR!Draco lets the accusation that Lucius was a true Death Eater and the overt insult "evil with a capital E" pass, and is far more interested in where Harry got his information than in avenging the honor of House Malfoy. Peter, similarly, is not one to let his ego get in the way of his self-interest most of the time.

[–]The_Magus_199Chaos Legion 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yeah, I can definitely see that.

[–]kairisika 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yeah, as well-rounded "good" and "evil" characters I can maybe see a bit of comparison, but I definitely don't see any actual comparison to the Wiggins.

[–]DuplexFieldsSunshine Regiment 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Good catch! I think it's likely there was at least subconscious borrowing. However, it's also useful to note that Harry James Potter-Verres-Evans' Hero archetype is The Undecided; his path isn't set, unlike Superman and Frodo for example. In such cases, Peter/Draco and Val/Hermoine fall easily into the roles of the angels on the shoulder. In other words, both pairs are examples of the larger Goldilocks archetype.

[–]fader2011Chaos Legion[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

That is a good point, although Draco never appears to have any real chance of influencing Harry; if Hermione is the angel on his right shoulder, the devil on his left is Professor Quirrell, not Draco. (He even lampshades that talking to Dumbledore in Chapter 77:

"Don't worry, Headmaster," said the boy. "I haven't gotten my wires crossed. I know that I'm supposed to learn goodness from Hermione and Fawkes, not from Professor Quirrell and you."

[–]DuplexFieldsSunshine Regiment 1 point2 points  (0 children)

In the more traditional iconography, maybe. But the "Harry between Hermione and Draco" is more about attitudes and methods than strategic goals. Ender was never going to be nasty Peter or pure Valentine; his struggle was between Graff as the self-righteous Dumbledore, and the Queen in his dreams.

π Rendered by PID 120409 on app-629 at 2017-12-17 11:21:01.558669+00:00 running bedae52 country code: JP.