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top 200 commentsshow all 287

[–]Angieflibble 427 points428 points  (16 children)

I never imagined her to be forced to get good grades. I always imagined that her magic made her feel isolated and different so making friends was hard because she didn't understand how people couldn't just do things that she could. That loneliness combined with high intelligence meant that she could relate more to people in books than those around her so it was her retreat and not her punishment.

[–]mindputteeGets into fights with inanimate objects 179 points180 points  (6 children)

And considering she had teasable features like the buck teeth and bushy hair, I'm guessing kids saw her weirdness as more excuses to bully her and that as a result she retreated into the books and studies because books aren't mean to you.

[–]jentlefolk 42 points43 points  (3 children)

ASoIaF readers might disagree with you.

[–]mindputteeGets into fights with inanimate objects 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Don't I know that one... but not as mean as authors who don't finish their books >.>

[–]gingerkitty21 5 points6 points  (0 children)

as an awkward pre-teen myself, this gave me all the feels...

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 119 points120 points  (6 children)

I agree it was probably more of a retreat than a punishment, too. I think maybe her parents didn't necessarily "force" her to do well, but rather impressed upon her the need to excel, and her own psyche sort of took over from there.

[–]traumajunkie46 67 points68 points  (4 children)

I agree 100% with books likely being more of a retreat. I've always sympathized with Hermione, I think she grew up a lot like I did and books were a retreat, not a punishment and because I was always reading books and inherently a perfectionist I drove myself to get good grades and be top of my class. I don't remember my parents pushing me very hard to do well in school, it was a combination of internal ambition and social isolation that led me to do well in school because I had nothing better to do (i.e. no friends to hang out with).

[–]FluffyWof 21 points22 points  (3 children)

It's the same with me! My parents were immigrants to a new country, had a bad marriage and I was an only child, so I never learnt proper social skills with them. Meanwhile, I was a very quick study and found that kids my own age were slower to learn new concepts, so I quickly lost my patience with them as I excelled to the top of the class. So, when you're a bit rude and short with your own classmates, plus you sort of look down on them anyway, you won't tend to have many friends. That caused my social isolation and hence, my dive further into the world of books.

I feel like Hermione was so smart (she's always the first to grasp new concepts) that she quickly became a smarmy know it all, and was consequently isolated. No doubt her bushy hair and buck teeth were no help to her here too. And that caused her to find even more solace in her books. Her parents were probably at a bit of a loss, they clearly knew she was very intelligent but a bit odd, but didn't really know how to deal with her. But they clearly loved her and encouraged her to be her. I don't feel that Hermione's parents were in a bad marriage however.

[–]vannamei 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Now I imagine her parents also rejoiced when invitation from Hogwarts came, because Hermione was very excited and looked happy. It seems they were good parents who would do whatever to make her happy, even by letting her go into a secret world they themselves could never enter. They must be mystified and a bit anxious how to deal with this brilliant but odd little girl.

[–]FluffyWof 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yes exactly :)

[–]Erger 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Her parents were both dentists, which means they were well educated so their home probably placed a lot of emphasis on learning and studying.

[–]foxfunk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

With both her parents being dentists I always imagined that she was probably under some pressure to do well academically. Though I agree that her parents were probably not forcing her in some kind of abusive way, just that they would want the best for her.

[–]starsliver 769 points770 points  (53 children)

To be honest I always thought Hermione had an hard time with the Patronus Charm because it was hard for her to 'lose herself.' By that to complete lose herself in the memory, to shut everything else out.

I've always been curious about her underage magic. The fact that she had such an apitude for it it makes me wonder if she somehow had some control over it before Hogwarts like Lily and Tom. However the fact that she says it was 'ever such a surprise' when she got her letter implies that she did sincerely not ever suspect that she was actually a witch.

[–]summertime214 400 points401 points  (3 children)

I always took that to mean it was a surprise that she wasn't the only one, and that there was even a school for people like her. She was probably pretty excited that there was a lot more to magic than the basic telekinetic things we saw other children doing.

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 64 points65 points  (2 children)

Well, I mean, just look at how Tom Riddle reacted to being told he was a wizard. He already knew he was "different" from the other children; even "special". I find it easy to believe that Hermione also realized pretty much the same about herself, that she was "different" from other children her age, even years before she got her Hogwarts letter.

From a personal standpoint, I have a diagnosed autism spectrum disorder; my brain works very differently from other people's. From around age 8-9, or even earlier, I knew something was "off" or "different" about me. I was ostracized from my peers my age, and bullied quite a lot for seeming "odd", "weird", and "strange". However, I never understood why this was, until my parents took me to see a professional psychologist for evaluation.

I can imagine Hermione going through the same process in her childhood (as well as Tom Riddle, by extent), albeit with being magical.


As an edit, I wanted to include my original writing / explanation about the above childhood experience (and diagnosis process), which was posted here on /r/stevenuniverse originally.

[–]professor_rumbleroar 21 points22 points  (0 children)

And Lily probably would have had a similar experience of feeling "weird" and "other" without fully understanding why had Snape not been around to tell her.

[–]IziseryUnauthorized Cinnamon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Look at how Tom and Harry used their underage magic. Tom always used his on other people, knew what they were thinking, could hurt them, make them do things. Harry used his magic on himself, could apparate away, grow his own hair back, change inanimate objects like the sweater and the glass. This is why Voldermort knows he is different from others but Harry only understands that he is treated differently from others. He knows strange things happen around him, but he doesn't believe he causes them. Depending on how Hermione's magic manifests she might not realize she is causing it to happen. She may have been just as surprised as Harry to find out that she was a witch.

[–]ReservoirPussy 254 points255 points  (16 children)

I imagine she'd identified with Dahl's Mathilda and left it at that, never imagining there was a whole school for people like her.

Edited to add "Dahl's"

[–]StarshipSopie 59 points60 points  (3 children)

She probably also got her hands on Carrie, we can see that she doesn't shirk from violence when necessary.

[–]SilverSuicuneWith sharp edged wit and pointed poise 23 points24 points  (2 children)

I always had a head canon Carrie is a mutant in the marvel universe. Carrie reads books about people like her, with other abilities in the library. She has powers very similar to Jean Grey, and ultimately loses control so she could be inhabited by The Phoenix Force.

But we can also argue about her being in the Matilda universe, same types of powers/people, similar kind of neglected upbringing, abuse. Matilda was still young, and at school she had support. Carrie was older and high school kids are horrible. If Miss Honey wasn't around, Matilda could have very much been a Carrie-type.

[–]j_2_the_esse 3 points4 points  (1 child)

head canon

What do you mean?

[–]moshtradamus_ 11 points12 points  (0 children)

In your head, that's the way it is.

[–]TRB1783 84 points85 points  (4 children)

Mathilda is part of the Potterverse in my headcanon.

[–]Not_SteveSweet Hufflepuff from valley broad 71 points72 points  (3 children)

Definitely a Ravenclaw. Miss Honey would be so proud of her.

[–]TRB1783 43 points44 points  (2 children)

Can we go by the movie version, to get Mara Wilson and Danny Devito in the universe?

[–]Not_SteveSweet Hufflepuff from valley broad 42 points43 points  (1 child)

If we do, Mathilda would go to Ilvermorny. That's not a bad thing, but her author, Roald Dahl, is British. Really, you could go either way. American movie or British book.

[–]IAMAbutthole420 14 points15 points  (6 children)

American here, read that Mathilda as in Hopkirk from the ministry. We spell everything different for some weird reason and now I get that you meant Matilda as in the book/movie.

[–]KiriokoSlytherin 23 points24 points  (4 children)

I was really confused because everyone was working it like Mathilda and it felt the Bearenstein Bears moment all over again, with me thinking I've been misspelling it this whole time...

[–]shorthairednymphDogwood and Unicorn Hair 23 points24 points  (3 children)

Okay, I don't wanna give you guys another Mandela Effect moment, but I should inform you that the Ministry of Magic employee's name you're thinking of is Mafalda, not Mathilda

[–]KiriokoSlytherin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh yes, she didn't even occur to me. I was thinking of the six year old.

[–]Ralph-HinkleyKarlyPilkboy II 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That was who Hermione impersonated in the MoM.

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 14 points15 points  (0 children)

It's actually Mafalda Hopkirk.

[–]on_my_lunch_break 75 points76 points  (17 children)

Same here -- Hermione is really good at remembering information and following precise recipes, movements, and incantations... but a patronus is mostly about how you feel. In that regard, it's almost more like flying -- which is another magical subject that I don't think Hermione shows any special aptitude for.

[–]mrshinyredplanet 66 points67 points  (16 children)

This. Part of the richness of the magical world created by Rowling is that there is no one witch or wizard who can perform every task. Its a faceted world, with many aspects. Harry is a decidedly middle of the road magician, except for his aptitude with flying and DADA. He is able to succeed at potions when the instructions improve. Neville sucks at most things except herbology. Ron is quite good at charms ( especially if he studied more). Hermione is not great at DADA, and her rational mind flat out refuses to accept Divination. But we know, as readers, that the world does not play by Herminone's rules. It is far deeper.

That is what appeals to me. Everyone can find something they'd be good at in Rowling's Wizardry world.

[–]hrbrox 38 points39 points  (9 children)

I agree with most of this, except he succeeds in potions once the instructions improve. Snape always puts the instructions on the board instead of having them follow the textbook so I think it's reasonable to assume he was putting up his modified instructions, which is why Hermione's potions seem to go from excellent to just good in Slughorn's class.
The difference for Harry's work comes from him no longer being in a class with a teacher who actively hates him (a feeling that is mutual) and no longer having his potions sabotaged both by snape and the other slytherins. Was them throwing things in people's cauldrons canon or have I read too much ff?

[–]AkhilArtha 28 points29 points  (3 children)

If there was a difference between the instructions on the board and in the book, Hermione would definitely have brought that up, in the 5 years that Snape taught them potions.

[–]hrbrox 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Fair point.

[–]Violetricemoon6th year, Vine & Phoenix 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Then again, Snape only made minor adjustments to potions - and it is likely the potions in the 6th year textbook are all different to ones she'd brewed previously, so may not have seen the instructions for (or may have seen but not memorised to the point of noticing any differences)

[–]AkhilArtha 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hermione would definitely have memorised all the potions text books every year before the year even would have begun. She definitely would notice the difference.

[–]xodus112 13 points14 points  (4 children)

I'd say McGonnagal, Snape and, to a greater extent, Dumbledore and Voldemort seem to be good at everything. I also got the impression that Harry is at least an above average wizard and would be a more well-rounded wizard than say, Hermione, if he applied himself. For example, a lot of DADA involves essentially casting offensive and defensive charms spells. But Harry is better at DADA than Charms because he has more of an interest in DADA.

[–]whogivesashirtdotcaroonil wazlib 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Dumbledore and Voldemort seem to be good at everything.

Tom Riddle wasn't chosen for the Quidditch team. This triggered his campaign of death and destruction.

[–]xodus112 21 points22 points  (0 children)

The Potterverse version of Hitler not getting into art school.

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I know this is meant to be a joke, but in all seriousness, I think that Tom Riddle simply was never on the Slytherin Quidditch team for the same reasons Hermione was never on the Gryffindor Quidditch team. He was too much of a bookish nerd to really care much for, or be interested in, "popular sports".

[–]GigadweebHHr shippers pls go 4 points5 points  (0 children)

riddle would be like those neckbeards on reddit who calls everything 'sportsball'

[–]loamfarer 69 points70 points  (6 children)

She may have been doing minor magic feats, but coming to know about the larger magic community and their was an entire life for her in it certainly would be a surprise.

I can imagine her making claims about her minor feats to her parents only to be first humored then patronized. Then eventually Dumbledore appears and affirms Hermione.

[–]ClarSco 50 points51 points  (1 child)

It's possible that she would also be either rationalising her magical experiences in a similar way that we are shown that Harry was doing prior to receiving his Hogwarts letter (Eg. clothes shrinking in the wash) or convincing herself it was a dream.

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Copying what I posted higher up, as I think it's quite relevant to this as well.

Well, I mean, just look at how Tom Riddle reacted to being told he was a wizard. He already knew he was "different" from the other children; even "special". I find it easy to believe that Hermione also realized pretty much the same about herself, that she was "different" from other children her age, even years before she got her Hogwarts letter.

From a personal standpoint, I have a diagnosed autism spectrum disorder; my brain works very differently from other people's. From around age 8-9, or even earlier, I knew something was "off" or "different" about me. I was ostracized from my peers my age, and bullied quite a lot for seeming "odd", "weird", and "strange". However, I never understood why this was, until my parents took me to see a professional psychologist for evaluation.

I can imagine Hermione going through the same process in her childhood (as well as Tom Riddle, by extent), albeit with being magical.

As an edit, I wanted to include my original writing / explanation about the above childhood experience (and diagnosis process), which was posted here on /r/stevenuniverse originally.

Even in childhood, skepticism can only go so far in "explaining things away", and may be a coping mechanism to avoid the distress involved in not having a logical explanation for something being present / ocurring.

In some cases, certain things - or, in this case, magic - may have been something that Hermione simply couldn't understand at the time. I am of the personal opinion that, given her personality, it would've ignited her curiosity, and driven her to go to great lengths to find the reason / explanation of it.

After all, Hermione was certainly more than intelligent and bright at that age to not notice that something was "off". That "strange things" happened around her, especially as related to powerful emotions.

Like Riddle, I have a feeling that Hermione was already practicing, or even mastered, certain nonverbal / wandless spells or types of magic before she even get her letter, albeit without knowing the words for them. i.e. Alohomora (unlocking spell) or Reparo (repairing spell).

This would also explain why Hermione seems to know them, or be good at them, from the get-go in the books, from Harry's perspective.

[–]Blondfucius_Say 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Does it actually say in the books who comes to inform the muggles? I suppose it could be Dumbledore each time, I just don't recall.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 41 points42 points  (2 children)

Back then, sometimes it was Dumbledore and sometimes it was McGonagall. Not sure if that's directly stated in the books, but I've read it on Pottermore, at least. The Head and the Deputy Head divide the duties of informing Muggle parents between themselves. Today, the responsibility lies with McGonagall and whomever her Deputy Head is.

[–]wjweimar 23 points24 points  (0 children)

I have a headcanon that she made Neville her deputy when he came to teach. Before that, Flitwick was temporary deputy.

[–]justaprimer 8 points9 points  (0 children)

My personal thought is that it was McGonagall, but I have no proof for this theory. Just the feeling that she would be a much better first introduction to wizards for the typical muggle family.

[–]The5ifthColumn 25 points26 points  (1 child)

She may have suspected she was a witch, but surprised by the fact that a witchcraft and wizardry school existed.

[–]bandhani 31 points32 points  (0 children)

yes, and that she wasn't alone. Finally she had people she'd be able to relate to.

So she comes barging on the train and immediately befriends Neville, the lamest kid of all. Her assumption that she's relatable and is normal to continues until Halloween when she hears Ron trash talking her after a Charms lesson.

[–]gp24249 8 points9 points  (0 children)

But did she know that there was a "wizard/ witch" world at all prior to receiving the letter ?

Maybe she had these "skills" and didn't know what they were... and (maybe) because of them she stayed away from other kids.

[–]CaseOfLeaves 6 points7 points  (0 children)

She may have suspected she was a witch, but that's rather different from there being a large covert community of witches and wizards with their own school, townships, etc. that send out recruitment letters.

[–]WildxYak 5 points6 points  (0 children)

To be honest I always thought Hermione had an hard time with the Patronus Charm because it was hard for her to 'lose herself.' By that to complete lose herself in the memory, to shut everything else out.

I've usually thought that she struggles with the fact it's not a 'straight out the book' type spell and, similarly to what you said, finds it hard to 'lose herself'.

[–]suology 520 points521 points  (35 children)

I think your points are very fair and I would have to agree. I don't think there is any evidence for this, but I like to think that she noticed her ability to do magic far before she got her letter to Hogwarts. She seems sharp enough to notice that her accidental magic isn't average. This might have contributed to her isolation from other kids. But of course, this is unsupported speculation.

[–]Not_SteveSweet Hufflepuff from valley broad 168 points169 points  (14 children)

Aww. Little 'mione recedes into the safety of her parents and books while other kids are confused and maybe a little afraid of her. That makes me sad.

She ends up happy. She ends up happy. She ends up happy.

[–]Throwawayjust_incaseLikes dragons maybe a little too much 49 points50 points  (13 children)

Aw man, as someone who grew up with mental illnesses this hits a little too close

[–]Not_SteveSweet Hufflepuff from valley broad 47 points48 points  (12 children)

She ends up happy.

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 6 points7 points  (4 children)

But does she? She is certainly ambitious; she is with the man she loves; and she has a family, yes.

However, for Hermione, being the Head of the DLME, and later, the Minister of Magic, is an extremely "busy", high-stress job. I would equate it to being President for those in the United States, or being Prime Minister for those in the United Kingdom. Given the nature of such a position, Hermione would be an extremely busy public figure and individual.

As such, her stress and anxiety would likely be through the roof. Her time with her children, and her husband, would also likely be severely curtailed and restricted. Having spent most of her adulthood climbing the ranks of the Ministry, and tirelessly working to achieve her goals - after all, Hermione becomes Minister by age 40 - it makes me wonder if Hermione even knows how to be "happy and content".

As an ambitious person, to quote Hamilton, it takes one to know that ambitious people are usually "never satisfied". Even though they might seem happy and content, usually below the surface, there's an air of being so driven, and so ambitious, that they "achieve things like they're running out of time".

They usually don't know how (much less when) to "take a break" or "relax". They're usually always "go, go, go", and very "intense", "always online", and "always thinking / caculating" sort of people.

On paper, Hermione appears to "have it all" - a perfect husband, a perfect job, a perfect family, a perfect life. However...is she truly happy?

[–]Gyissan 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I think her happiness equates to having stuff to actually do, so MoM fits her quite well.

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe "happy" by her definition, but I don't think it would be Ron's definition, exactly. I think, if anything, it could cause more tension between them as a couple.

[–]Not_SteveSweet Hufflepuff from valley broad 2 points3 points  (0 children)

... D:

[–]gorgossia 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Emmanuel Macron became President at 39, he doesn't seem exactly washed up and at the end of his rope.

[–]on_my_lunch_break 24 points25 points  (4 children)

OMG she's Matilda! But with less-shit parents.

[–]djSexPanther 71 points72 points  (13 children)

I feel like there could be a decent psycholgical thriller in a Hermione prequel. Here we have this bookish young girl driven by cold, calculating, unimpassioned reason. She suddenly notices all these strange things happening, strange things she can do. She starts to go a little insane, she thinks she must be crazy. Then it ends with the biggest, stupidest deus ex machina "Congratulations! You're a witch! You have magic powers! I'm a Professor at Hogwarts and I'm here to tell you about this hidden world you'll soon be a part of."

I feel like that could be a pretty decent short/fan film and it would be funny that no one knows is a Harry Potter fan film until it ends.

[–]vivestalin 57 points58 points  (1 child)

hermione is shown to be extremely compassionate though, who else would start spew?

[–]forknoxA Dead Elf 15 points16 points  (7 children)

With a name as common as Hermiine, no one would suspect a thing before the twist.

[–]Oliver5366As High As Honor 20 points21 points  (3 children)

It's entirely possible to make a movie where you don't know the main character's name. Ever seen Fight Club?

[–]ScherazadeWhat a rotter! 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Just really emphasise the parents are into Shakespeare.

[–]djSexPanther 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Obviously the girl would remain unnamed until the moment of the twist ending

[–]ScherazadeWhat a rotter! 31 points32 points  (1 child)

Would be kinda like Matilda but without the abuse, and Bruce, who sacrificed himself upon the cake for our sins, so that Matilda could ascend.

[–]JJ3595Turtle Whisperer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was just thinking this. Hermione's childhood is a big unexplored area. Would be interesting to read a book about her everyday childhood life pre-Hogwarts (or even what her summers are like after a term).

[–]JuniorALPine - Dragon Heartstring, 13" 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hermione is good with magic because she is good with the theory of magic. She lacks the natural aptitude to it, Lily could control her magic because she was using her happiness and Tom Riddle was highly magical so technically he was the only one capable of reliably using wandless magic before Hogwarts. Hermione didn't think of conjuring fire in her 1st year, she said that there was no wood. Highly magical people would want to use magic for everything and think of using magic first. Luna, Hagrid and Dumbledore are highly magical, just to name a few.

[–]poopiverse 108 points109 points  (14 children)

I agree with the idea that she may have felt pressured to achieve good grades and perform by her parents. She's the only child of two professionals (dentists) which suggests that they at least were academics themselves. I don't know if I agree that they did this directly or intentionally though.

They're obviously supportive of her and foster her independence quite a bit. They allowed her to choose whether she came home for holidays, though she said they were disappointed when she didn't, for example.

I also agree that she shows signs of not having interacted much with other kids before Hogwarts. My guess would be that since both her parents had well paying professional jobs, she probably had a nanny and was possibly even homeschooled before getting her letter. Her vocabulary and general manner of speaking also suggests that she spent the majority of her time either alone or with adults.

[–]SashWhitGrabby 69 points70 points  (13 children)

Was just about to say this. Only children (my nephew for example) typically have larger vocabularies as well as tend to put themselves in positions where they have authority. So it doesn't surprise me that she wouldn't have much interaction with other kids. My nephew would always say that the kids his age were "stupid" even though they were just normal kids. He knew more because of the opportunities he had as an only child.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 26 points27 points  (12 children)

Another possible reason why Hermione occasionally clashed with Harry and Luna (who are also only children)?

[–]SashWhitGrabby 49 points50 points  (11 children)

Technically Harry is an only child but he grew up with his cousin. For me the difference with Luna is that her mother died and her father took care of her. In some ways she probably had to grow up a little especially since she saw her die. I mean look at Draco. While he does have friends, they're not real. He's arrogant and pushy almost like Hermione is in the first scene with Harry and Ron.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 52 points53 points  (10 children)

Somebody in this thread made a slight Hermione/Dudley comparison by suggesting that she was spoiled. But now that you bring up Draco... yes, he is far more spoiled than she could possibly be. But they do indeed share a certain pushiness...

The most ironic thing in all of this is that Luna (yes, Luna) is probably the most mature and self-aware of all the kids. Yes, Neville has a similar background in that his grandad died and his parents were tortured, but I also don't think he's as comfortable in his own skin as Luna is (not when we first meet him, at least).

[–]SashWhitGrabby 37 points38 points  (4 children)

I just realized how many of the characters are only children. Interesting. But I do agree that Luna is more self-aware & more comfortable in her own skin. Hermione, for me always felt like she had to prove her worth. Loneliness can do some strange things to self-esteem.

[–]FluffyWof 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Well apparently there weren't so many children because of the war with Voldemort. So people were scared of having children in such a war stricken environment.

[–]TheIvoryDingoAlder wood, Unicorn, 10 3/4", Slightly Springy 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Aside from the Weasleys.

[–]FluffyWof 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I think they kept having kids because they wanted a daughter so badly! Makes me wonder why there isn't a magical solution to pre selecting the sex of your child. There would be a magical birth control I'm sure so it wouldn't be from an accident or something. Maybe the Weasleys couldn't afford it.

[–]poopiverse 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I think magic wouldn't be able to change chromosomes or DNA. Transfiguration can change you for a time but you always can go back, so I don't think there would be a way to control gender or anything else with a child in utero. If they could there probably wouldn't be squibs for example.

[–]forknoxA Dead Elf 3 points4 points  (4 children)

The most ironic thing in all of this is that Luna (yes, Luna) is probably the most mature and self-aware of all the kids.

How/why?

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 24 points25 points  (3 children)

How she's the most mature / self-aware: 1) Because she watched her mother die and then helped her dad take care not just of her but of himself. 2) Because she saw death so early in her life - old enough that she could be fully conscious of what it was - and learned to accept it as part of life. 3) Because she never tried to be anything other than the person she was, and never tried to change. Unlike many of the other kids, she didn't have a character arc in the series, because she didn't need one. She was already complete, having already gone through all the formative experiences of her life.

Why it's ironic: Because the majority of people at school assume that Luna is an airheaded conspiracy theorist who doesn't really understand anything about the world, when in fact she's extremely insightful and (as noted above) has been through much more than most of the other characters realize.

[–]FluffyWof 9 points10 points  (2 children)

I absolutely adore her. So glad she married who she did (Newt Scamander's grandson!!) Perfect match.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

She could've worked with Harry, too, perhaps. Her gentle, soothing nature would have been good for him. But then again, if Harry/Luna were canon, there would be all sorts of fans complaining that Luna was too "strange" for Harry because they wanted him to be with somebody else. I'd hate to see Luna treated like that. As it is, poor Ginny gets a lot of hate from some fans who didn't want Harry to marry her, and she doesn't deserve it at all. Ginny is awesome.

Plus, the thought of Rolf and Luna going on expeditions together is really sweet. I still think Harry/Luna could've been something, and I ship it pretty heavily... but Rolf/Luna is also a nice pairing. Frankly, it's a testament to Luna's loving nature that she could have been a great girlfriend/wife for almost anybody you pair her with.

[–]FluffyWof 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes you're so right! Luna would be the perfect girlfriend provided you didn't mind her 'eccentrics'. But I think she's so loveable, so it's a moot point for me. She strikes me as being incredibly caring, empathetic and you know she'd always support and encourage you in chasing your ambitions and dreams, be interesting enough so you wouldn't be bored, comfort you in times of stress and overall be a really great rock of strong moral fibre.

Book Ginny is great, I like her and Harry together. They balance each out very well and have similar history and interests.

[–]Spock_Rocket 31 points32 points  (7 children)

Her behavior could also mean she was a bit spoiled. Not Dudley level because she's a good person, but used to being able to say whatever without being chided.

[–]FluffyWof 16 points17 points  (6 children)

The thing is, she was almost always right. There's not much to chide her on, as I've found that IRL the accuracy of someone's claims sort of voids how they say it (in the offensive person's own mind) So it wasn't like she was spoilt by horrible parents, just that maybe they didn't think it was worth pulling her down on something trivial, especially when she seemed to be a model child in every other aspect (obeying rules, perfect scores etc).

Of course, given my own experience I would definitely remind my child to be more patient and tolerant; as I wasn't told as a child and it sort of made me a bit insufferable too.

EDIT: made more clear that I meant coming across as abrasive often isn't important to the rude person themself, it's more about what they actually say versus how they say it in their own mind

[–]2muchtaurine 12 points13 points  (5 children)

In my experience the way something is said is often just as important as what's said. That was true for me growing up and it's perhaps even more true in the working world. It's very easy to be 100% inarguably correct while still managing to offend someone or otherwise put them off. That is representative of questionable social skills.

If it is true that Hermione was never corrected on her delivery as a child, that goes a long to way to explaining just why she had such a hard time adapting in her first year at Hogwarts. As much crap as Ron, and to a much lesser extent Harry, get for being mean to Hermione in the early days, for some reason people tend to either forget or ignore that she had a tendency to come across as extremely condescending (hence much of the discussion in this thread), and that can be just as hard to deal with as being made fun of behind one's back, especially as an 11 year old. I absolutely adore Hermione, but her correctness does not excuse her tone.

[–]FluffyWof 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Oh I totally agree! It's now a thing of mine to be aware of the way I said things, rather than just what I was saying. It was probably the biggest obstacle to why I wasn't well liked growing up. What I should have indicated more precisely is that, for the people who are rude etc, it doesn't matter how they're coming across, what matters to them is that they're right.

I don't think it's excusable at all too, I just am trying to guess why she didn't find it important enough to change her tone and things like that, and using myself as a drawing point. She came across as a bit of a brat, which I'm sure any proper parent would have aimed to correct, but to Hermione herself what probably was more important was that she was ultimately right, not whether or not she offended someone in the process.

[–]2muchtaurine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ah sorry, I misunderstood your meaning. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree.

[–]Mendoza2909 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I would say that being 11 does excuse her tone though. Children can be insufferable know-it-alls at that age (to quote a certain potions master). I certainly was. I think she grows out of it over time.

[–]2muchtaurine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree that to a certain extent her behavior can be excused, but I think that Ron's behavior in response to her's (the thing that people to this day continue to criticize her for) can be just as easily excused. She does grow out of (most of) it over the years though. I agree with that as well.

[–]pupububu 50 points51 points  (10 children)

Do we know what happened to her parents after the second war, did she go back and reverse the spell?

[–]Kittycat-bananaCherry and Dragon; Quite Bendy 94 points95 points  (0 children)

I believe Rowling confirmed Hermione did go back after the war and reverse their memories.

[–]heissenburgerflipper 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Always wondered this

[–]Rarecandy31 34 points35 points  (7 children)

In a way I hope that she didn't. Not because I am diabolical! The gravity of what she did would be so much less significant if she could just go back and reverse the spell if they won the war. I feel like that is the point, and illustrates just how much Hermione sacrificed for their cause; she could have easily gone into hiding with her parents, but chose to remove them from her life so that she could fight for what she believed in. Either way, Hermione is the best :)

[–]CheddaShredda 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Yeah I agree with this point. Also kind of an inconsitency considering how hard it was for Lockhart after his Memory Charm backfired. I know his was probably stronger, it still feels like too much of a difference

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 22 points23 points  (1 child)

It could be, and this is just a theory here, that the caster of the memory-erasing charm is the one who would be able to reverse it - much like how a hypnotist can both hypnotize and un-hypnotize you. However, the problem for Lockhart is that he cast the charm on himself, leading to a Catch-22 where he's the only one who could reverse it but he doesn't know how to do it anymore.

[–]AlamutJones 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Lockhart also got blasted by a fundamentally damaged wand. It's possible that ANY spell cast by a broken or damaged wand is more difficult to undo.

When Hermione did it, it was controlled, deliberate and her wand was in perfect condition. When it happened to Lockhart, it was a raw chaotic backblast with no real control, from a wand held together with tape and happy thoughts.

[–]AiraBranford 18 points19 points  (0 children)

It was a different memory charm, and besides, the key point in Lockhart's case was the broken wand, not the spell itself.

[–]justaprimer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I feel like maybe to undo a memory charm you need to know a person well enough and take enough time with the reversal to patiently restore all their memories one by one. And Hermione definitely would have had that patience and care for her parents.

[–]ButtonsAndSoup 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We had so much tragedy during the wizarding war, I'm ok with one thing being easy and fixable.

[–]Violetricemoon6th year, Vine & Phoenix 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's a really interesting point. I just want to add, though, that part of the significance of the memory spell is not necessarily that it may be irreversible, but that she just doesn't know what would happen. She doesn't know if the war will last a month, a year, ten years, the rest of her life... she doesn't know if she will die and her parents will never be aware that they had a dead daughter... she could be going for years without a mother and father, with the knowledge that it's her own fault. That being said, it's really interesting (and heartbreaking!) that her parents could be an intentional sacrifice for the war.

[–]VinceVenom 22 points23 points  (2 children)

I've always thought it was weird that she flinches at the sound of Voldemort's name. Like why would she be conditioned to do it if she only heard about him right before she came to Hogwarts? It seems like she may have been putting it on to fit in with other wizards.

Also makes sense as to why she was the first one besides Harry to start saying his name regularly.

[–]Nik-kik 20 points21 points  (3 children)

I can definitely see her as the type of kid that hung out with the adults more than the kids.

But maybe her parents aren't super friendly/talkative, so she never really learned how to greet people?

[–]justaprimer 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Agreed! Or her parents are friendly but they only ever had adults over to dinner, and adult conversations are definitely different than kid conversations. Hermione never seems to have any trouble making connections with the teachers at Hogwarts, only her fellow classmates.

[–]Lewon_SChange my mind 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I remember reading a book about an autistic guy who found he related better to adults then children his own age. Adults would just go along with whatever he was saying even if it was weird but children would point it out and get bored by info dumping. I'm not sure that hermione is autistic just that it could have been a similar situation. Especially with no siblings.

[–]rory_4 20 points21 points  (13 children)

Harry had a horrible childhood and hes great at making a patronus

[–]research_humanity 31 points32 points  (12 children)

Kittens

[–]FluffyWof 22 points23 points  (7 children)

I always thought Harry was incredibly well balanced for what he's been through when we meet him in Book 1.

[–]research_humanity 16 points17 points  (6 children)

Kittens

[–]FluffyWof 16 points17 points  (5 children)

I would never even attempt to physically harm a child. This is life as Harry knows it, but the fact that they've tried to harm him with a frying pan is horrendous. It's made out for humour, but hidden under that is a portrayal of extremely dangerous and abusive treatment of children. Dumbledore straight out says it in HBP when he visits the Dursleys. The Dursleys are reprehensible people. He's normalised this shocking behaviour. Harry doesn't bother protesting because he's smart and knows that energy would be better used elsewhere. He's not beaten down or self pitying. That's what I mean by him being very well balanced.

[–]research_humanity 10 points11 points  (4 children)

Puppies

[–]FluffyWof 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Really! You didn't think he was abused? What was your childhood like? I knew that Harry was abused and neglected because there were so many stark contrasts with Dudley. I was sort of spoilt materially as a child (even though my parents didn't have a good marriage and we weren't rich) in that my parents sacrificed a lot to give me a good education, food and clothes etc.

I felt that Harry lacked a lot of material comforts when the Dursleys were clearly within their means to not give him the worst of everything, especially with giving Dudley, like, 38 presents and Harry old socks or whatever. That combined with being so dismissive of Harry's emotional needs meant to me, even at 8 or how old I was, he was very clearly abused. That level of favouritism isn't just favouritism, it's pretty much abuse lol. He was just a smart kid who felt like he would be able to escape his situation so didn't worry about it as much as he might have.

Anyway what I mean is that Rowling was sort of like Dickens, both authors placed their protagonists in very sad situations, but the boys themselves were incredibly plucky and didn't feel too sorry for themselves.

[–]justaprimer 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I had a great childhood with amazing, loving parents, much like I imagine Hermione's was. When I was reading the first books, I didn't think Harry was abused because I didn't know what abuse really was. I didn't think he was not abused, but my mind just didn't jump to abuse as a thing that was happening.

I think this is also contributed to by mistreatment being how so many children's books start -- Oliver Twist, Matilda, etc. In these books the mistreatment felt more like abuse, but it's worth noting that Harry was never beaten or starved by the Dursleys, and that all of the physical harm that he undergoes comes from Dudley and his friends rather than the parents. I always put that down as bullying rather than parental abuse. The Dursleys show severe favoritism, but Harry's childhood didn't fit my personal definition of abuse growing up.

[–]vannamei 12 points13 points  (2 children)

And he is extraordinarily mentally resilient. Quite a practical get up and go kind of person. Even in times when he was despised and mocked by other students, he just went through with whatever he thought was right. He had almost no self-pity, not a whiner.

[–]research_humanity 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Kittens

[–]FluffyWof 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I've found people who have to go through genuine hardship tend to be much less complainers than those who suffer mostly from 'first world problems'. You know? So many of those motivational speakers are lighthearted and funny, yet are in some way quite disabled. And then there's that guy who bemoans his lack of neighbourhood good coffee every day lol.

[–]angry_scissoring 66 points67 points  (14 children)

I imagine Hermione's childhood to be a lot like mine. A naturally bright kid with two loving parents who pushed her to her full potential, who always grew up with books rather than a playmate and who wasn't the best at socialization (some people say this has a lot to do with being an only child, I don't know how I feel about that but there is something to be said about being an older child and not growing up with a play mate). I imagine (maybe project a bit) that Hermione was teased for her brains, her being a "teachers pet", and her distinct non-girly attitude. This lead her to draw even further into her books and isolate herself from that social aspect that she's missing by the time she starts Hogwarts. I don't think there was any abuse or insane pressure from her parents. In fact, I don't even think magic had anything to do with it. Hermione is exceptionally bright and would just know that magical powers aren't normal and she should keep them hidden as much as she can.

As far as her Patronus, I think her sturggles are due to the fact that it's not a spell based on technical skill and knowledge, but feeling and emotion. That just doesn't line up for Hermione and that's not how she's approached learning magic so far.

[–]chadthundertalk 35 points36 points  (0 children)

That, or she's just naturally super introverted and socially awkward. Maybe the academic focus was related to her parents, but I know I was (outside of the focus on grades) definitely not dissimilar to that growing up and my mother was the exact opposite of strict.

[–]Bitter_Bridge 23 points24 points  (1 child)

One point that seems contrary to your argument is that Hermione very obviously has extremely high self-esteem, which is not usually a byproduct of a high-pressure household, especially one devoid of happy memories.

[–]opinionated_angel 8 points9 points  (4 children)

I don't believe that her parents were strict I just think it's just who she is (bookish and maybe a little socially awkward when it comes to making friends) and maybe there aren't a lot of happy memories because she didn't grow up with friends because of her socially awkward ways.

[–]justaprimer 18 points19 points  (3 children)

I think that it could also have to do with having had a generally happy childhood. When you grow up happy, it's hard to think of a single overwhelmingly happy memory. Coming from a history of unhappiness, Harry's happiest moments all shine really brightly. But Hermione is probably thinking "oh, I'm happy when my parents hug me! But they always hug me, that's not special. Ooh, how about the time when we went hiking in Southern France? Well, I felt about as happy then as I did on that other vacation to Paris, so maybe that's not happy enough. Plus, it was a whole week, not a moment. What about when Gryffindor won the cup my first year? Hm, that's really everyone's happy memory, not mine." I can totally imagine Hermione going through all of her memories and not finding any single one that she judges as singularly happy enough. High expectations is such a Hermione thing to be stuck on.

[–]AeolianMelodiesAsh, unicorn hair, 11", unyielding 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You do make me realize that the probably overthought the happy memory thing and probably searched way too long for "the" memory lol.

[–]Ralph-HinkleyKarlyPilkboy II 1 point2 points  (1 child)

To produce a patronus, it doesn't necessarily have to be the happiest memory, simply a happy memory. We saw Harry use different memories throughout books 3-7, and still produce his patronus.

[–]justaprimer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You're definitely right about that -- but can't you imagine Hermione thinking that it does?

[–]mfigzz 9 points10 points  (2 children)

I like to think that Hermoine read Matilda as a child and found solace in it.

[–]PsychoGeek 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I always thought she had been home-schooled. She really seemed to have no idea why barging into a compartment, rubbing peoples' noses into the fact that she's super smart and obnoxiously demanding their help wasn't a thing that was done. Really, this is something no one with a bit of experience in everyday school bullying should have done. It is as if she read in a book that helping others made friends - so she followed the advice without having any prior experience in it.

[–]AeolianMelodiesAsh, unicorn hair, 11", unyielding 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Unless she had a tutor she wouldn't be home-schooled, both her father and her mother work.

[–]lat00uk 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I always assumed that Hermione went to a normal school before getting her letter and she must has displayed superior intelligence from a very early age and I kinda guessed she would have been bullied and then just spent her time consuming everything she could read.

[–]jaymar888 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Also worth mentioning (if not so already) that she spends nearly as many summers and xmas at the Weasleys as Harry does

[–]Narsil098 5 points6 points  (1 child)

AFAIR Hermione is basically young Rowling?

[–]innni 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hermione is like other very smart people that have some trouble understanding emotions and relating to others. She gets the facts right, but not always the feels.

The artistic nature of some magic. Like the patrons charm, or some of the advanced potions in half blood prince. She knows magical theory and can apply bay knowledge quickly and practically, but lacks the nuance needed to perfect certain magical things.

Other than that, it seemed she had typical social skills for an only child/book worm. They got better as time went on, as she spent more time with other people.

Another thing is, as a young witch, she probably knew she was different. Strange things happen around underage wizards. This maybe led to her isolating herself from muggle children, or making her the target of bullies. When she got the hogwarts letter, it likely all clicked for her, and she had no issue leaving the boring muggle life behind.

[–]reallygay7 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I always took Hermione's bookishness as a sign of wonder at the world around her. I assume she was a decent student in muggle school, but maybe isolated and lonely because of her magic. But then, when she discovered that there was a whole school, world, and community for people like her, she was so intrigued that she felt the need to learn everything about it that she possibly could. Hogwarts textbooks are bestsellers to us and that universe isn't even real, but if it was and all of a sudden we were a part of it, they would be even more intriguing. I know that if I got a letter to hogwarts tomorrow, I would want to know everything about that universe that I could possibly know. And I'd want to be the best at it.

[–]bluepandaicechirpchirp 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Lets not forget that she spends most of the year at school. Then comes holidays, what does she do? Either stay at school or go to the burrow. No wonder it was so easy for her to obliviate her parents.

[–]justaprimer 2 points3 points  (2 children)

This happens in the real world, too, though, although not usually as young as eleven. Your first year or two of college, you're excited about going home and you look forward to it a lot. But then time passes and you make other really strong connections with people you're living with, and then you come to a point where you have to decide whether to spend a vacation with your family or your adopted family. And maybe that first time you decide to go home, but eventually you will decide to spend one vacation with friends instead of family, and then maybe it grows from there. Or later on, when you have an SO -- which family do you go home to for holidays?

For Hermione, she went home for Christmas her first year. She wanted to go home her second year, but the Polyjuice potion was too important. After that, she stays at Hogwarts most winters. During the summer, she doesn't spend significant amounts of time away from home until her 4th year, and that's only because of the Quidditch World Cup. As you spend more time away from home, it becomes easier to live away from home. I think this is a very natural progression for Hermione to undergo.

[–]bluepandaicechirpchirp 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I get what you mean but it must have sucked for her parents. And in college you are basically an adult. She is a child who was not raised by her parents during a time, adolescence, when that would have been important. You have no idea how being distant from parents can mess you up. A friend of mine was never close to his mum and never knew motherly love now he keeps falling for girls who are mortherly in nature. Sounds great except that he is a grown child and these girls cannot put up with his dumb shit, they are not his mother.

[–]justaprimer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Those are fair points, but the question wasn't about whether it was hard for her parents. I was going off this quote from you: "No wonder it was so easy for her to obliviate her parents" and trying to show that just because Hermione doesn't spend every chance she gets with her parents doesn't mean that she doesn't care about them anymore.

With your example of your friend who never knew motherly love -- that's not Hermione at all. Hermione definitely grew up in a loving household, and it was probably exceptionally hard on them all when she went off to boarding school. Just because Hermione sometimes chooses to not spend holidays with her parents doesn't mean that 11 years of everyday love is just forgotten. Ron spends plenty of winter holidays at Hogwarts, and no one is saying that he is distant from his parents or doesn't know motherly love.

[–]DefconDelta88The Overlord 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Doubtful she was forced by her parents. By all (limited) appearances, they seemed pretty supportive. I'd be more inclined to believe that Hermione, having career-driven and well-studied parents, had a natural drive to strive for success in a similar manner. They would certainly set an example of what diligence looks like, and considering Hermione is pretty much a natural-born bookworm and an incredibly smart girl, even without magic there's a certain level of trouble relating to your peers in many situations similar to hers. Some children are simply less adept when it comes to general socialization, while others have a much easier time. My sister, for example, had a MUCH harder time making friends as a child than I did. Both of us were bookish and academically ahead of the majority of our peers, but we had starkly different social perceptions and aptitude as children. She spent more of her time finding her own entertainment and I think there was some level of anxiety there, while I was pretty much outgoing as fuckall and made friends with just about anyone. Some kids are just like that.

In Hermione's case, I'd imagine that she probably found quite a bit of her own entertainment and fulfillment in studies, stories, and self-sufficiency. For particularly intelligent children, it can be difficult to relate to your peers when your interests deviate on a level most kids your age simply can't identify with (or completely lack interest in). Books, for anyone with reasonably advanced reading skills, are an incredibly powerful escape.

Being sent off to Hogwarts likely put her in a situation where she is surrounded by her peers 24 hours a day and unable to retreat to her own little world at home. It isn't unreasonable to assume that this sudden and very constant level of socialization meant that, while she may have not hesitated to try to roll with it, she quickly found herself in uncharted and unexpectedly difficult territory simply for a lack of having to be deeply involved in a social world than before.

It's also quite important to note the age at which these kids start going to Hogwarts. When you hit 11, a lot of the dynamics of childhood begin to change. Referring back to my own childhood, I had a very easy time making friends and maintaining a busy, happy life as a kid, but once the transition into that godforsaken tween-age part of life began, my nerdy ass was suddenly exposed to a completely different dynamic that I was unprepared for. Being a child and being social wasn't difficult because politicking wasn't a factor during those years, but it absolutely becomes a huge factor in the life of preteens and teenagers, and for many of us, it took some time to adjust to. I vividly remember spending those years utterly baffled as to why everyone had become so irrationally complex (and mean, for fuck's sake, kids that age are horrible). The whole social dynamic is just mind-numbing at that point in time, and I can only assume for someone who may have spent less time engaging with other kids, it's just that much more difficult.

Hermione already has a natural personality of "I'm not interested in being right, I'm only interested in what is correct, and I can speak from experience when I say that trying to negotiate a world with an astonishingly high population of people who simply don't seem to care half as much about actual facts, it's extremely difficult to get a hold on. I still to this day have to manually curb the impulse to condescendingly grab people by the shoulders and scream "HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU THIS GOD DAMN STUBBORN?! YOU ARE ARGUING WITH FUCKING MATH. MATH!!"

That impulse to just turn around and correct someone or interject without a ton of grace is much harder to manage as you exit childhood and enter the tumultuous teenage years.

[–]subtlelikeatank 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hermione is A LOT like many of the "gifted/talented" kids I grew up with. Felt out of place among peers, more comfortable with adults, sought validation and praise from elders, needed to be the most correct (and as u/2muchtaurine said already, tone mattered less than being correct, can confirm), found comfort in books and facts, etc.

It would not surprise me if she valued studying and grades as a way for her to demonstrate that she was a good, worthy child and they made sense to her, rather than she was pushed too hard by her parents. If you don't achieve in sports or socially, at least you can still be proud that you have the best marks.

[–]AliasAurora 23 points24 points  (33 children)

I was just watching a video someone posted to /r/aspergirls (I would link it but I'm on mobile) and the lecturer called Hermione the perfect example of a girl with Asperger's. She doesn't understand what things aren't okay to say, she has trouble making friends, and her voracious appetite for books is very much like a special interest.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 8 points9 points  (26 children)

Interesting! I know Luna often gets mentioned as a possible character with Asperger's / high-functioning autism as well. I've never heard this theory regarding Hermione before...

[–]weretomatoEbony & Unicorn 14 1/2" (Thunderbird) 33 points34 points  (15 children)

I don't know what exactly Luna's deal is, but I don't think she's on the spectrum. One can be odd without it being ASD.

[–]unicorn_mafia537 23 points24 points  (3 children)

Honestly, I've never really thought of either of them on the spectrum. I have a few cousins on the lower-middle end and knew several people on the high-functioning/Asperger's side over the years and it doesn't ring true with either Hermione or Luna to me. No doubt, they both are kind of awkward and odd, but not really in an ASD way. Luna seems more eccentric and full of belief, hope, and child-like wonder, taking after her parents, but also being her own person. Hermione's faux paus and difficulty making friends feels familiar. I think it could be a product of social isolation. Feeling more comfortable talking to adults about academic things rather than trying to make friends with the other kids, because the other kids aren't always nice. Reading endless books to feed your imagination. (Note: was homeschooled for elementary school, so socialization wasn't the same or as much as public school). And then reading and reading again in high school, but for different reasons -- depression is a bitch and so is anxiety. Falling out of practice talking to people, so college starts off super awkward. Social isolation does a real number on you. And even after finally finding your friends, bits of it still linger -- a joke comes out mean, second-guessing, laughing too much and doing whatever it takes to get them to laugh, still a little rusty after years of disuse.

TLDR; I'm not discounting aspergirls theory or trying to take away representation in popular culture, but the ASD diagnosis for Hermione just doesn't seem quite accurate to me. It is also of note that I am not a professional nor a spokesperson. But I guess that's the beauty of stories: the characters can become who you feel they are; different for everyone, but fundamentally the same.

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I have a few cousins on the lower-middle end and knew several people on the high-functioning/Asperger's side over the years and it doesn't ring true with either Hermione or Luna to me.

That's because every person with autism is different. There's a common saying in the psychology community: "If you've met one person with autism / Asperger's, you've met one person with autism / Asperger's."

I'm not discounting aspergirls theory or trying to take away representation in popular culture, but the ASD diagnosis for Hermione just doesn't seem quite accurate to me

I'd also point out that, as someone who is not autistic, I think, obviously, you would see Hermione and Luna as "non-autistic" as well. It's a simple matter of personal perception and relating to the characters.

On the other hand, I personally have an autism spectrum disorder. I went through the diagnosis process beginning around age 9. I can definitely see why people with autism / Asperger's relate to Luna and Hermione, because they do share similar traits or symptoms to those with autism / Asperger's.

I think, thus, those with autism / Asperger's would perceive Hermione and Luna to also have autism / Asperger's, because they relate to their characters, and they're "like them". (I know I do, in Hermione's case.)

YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary. Perception of the characters depends on individual reader experience and perception of themselves and others.

[–]unicorn_mafia537 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very good points!

[–]weretomatoEbony & Unicorn 14 1/2" (Thunderbird) 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah. I was homeschooled all my life and honestly, I'm a lot like Hermione.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 11 points12 points  (10 children)

I don't know, either. I know it's just a theory that's been thrown around before - although I'd want to hear an actual diagnosis from a professional in the field before applying that headcanon to either Hermione or Luna.

My personal take on Luna is that she embodies a childlike state of wonder and imagination.

[–]FluffyWof 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I agree. It seems like she was the way she is because of her parents. They were both very odd. Sort of like the wizard equivalent of tin foil hat wearers.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Xeno was odd, at least. We don't know as much about Pandora. Although... when Harry visited the house, he did see a younger photo of Luna with her mum, where she looked much more well-groomed. That indicates that Pandora was the more orderly parent, although she may still have had some quirks of her own.

I would say that Luna must have inherited her bold, risk-taking side from her mum, since her dad is quite timid (he's almost like a non-evil version of Quirrell, tbh).

[–]FluffyWof 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I agree with that. Luna mentioned that her mother loved to make up spells, which is probably very illegal and unsafe. So both her parents were quirky creative types who probably encouraged her to try new things, believe odd things, and generally exercise her curiosity to its fullest.

Then when her mother died, her father's eccentricity probably became some worse due to trauma and loneliness, with no one to hold him down, and no wife for love and support. So with sort of half a soul, I imagine he delved even deeper into his oddities.

[–]Letshavedinner2 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I'm in psych and it never crossed my mind about either. It's a very interesting theory tho. However, I don't think anyone on the spectrum would have been able to do the adventurous things that group did. Routines and the familiar are crucial, and in many cases necessary, to complete daily activities for those on the spectrum.

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I'd want to hear an actual diagnosis from a professional in the field

I'll copy from what I posted as a reply to another comment. To quote my psychologist's report, which I think is highly relevant here, in Hermione's case:

"A significant factor here, without a formal name and diagnostic code, is intellectual giftedness...her verbal IQ scores places her among the top 3% of her same-age peers, performance IQ is in the top 9%, and full-scale IQ is in the top 4%...she is extremely bright verbally and visually...working memory and visual-motor is average...

"...she scored within the very superior range on subtests measuring her fund of factual knowledge, vocabulary, and visual pattern analysis skills. Superior performance was exhibited on a subtest measuring verbal reasoning. High average scores were yielded by subtests measuring mental math ability, visual-motor sequencing skills, and puzzle assembly skills...she more than likely possesses very superior (i.e. "gifted") overall intelligence."

"...her parents indicated many concerns related to withdrawal, anxiety, sadness, and social problems...her teacher said she was 'delinquent' (e.g., apparent lack of remorse, pairing up with troublemakers, lying) and aggressive behaviors...the child is more prone to internalize (e.g. show sadness and withdrawal) at home, where she is more likely to externalize (e.g. act out) at school..."

[...] "...there are significant signs of cognitive distractibility as well as remarkable signs of anxiety and social problems...indications of poor insight into how others view her."

Diagnosis at the time was ADHD and APDC (Antisocial Personality Disorder of Childhood) with generalized anxiety, later re-classified by the same psychologist to Asperger's Syndrome (now autism spectrum disorder) with OCD and ADD tendencies.

[–]kaseydilluh 6 points7 points  (9 children)

When I was reading OP I thought "Wow! Maybe she's on the spectrum"

[–]haikubot-1911 17 points18 points  (7 children)

When I was reading

OP I thought "Wow! Maybe

She's on the spectrum"

 

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[–]BonBonVivant 9 points10 points  (6 children)

Good bot

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[–]kaseydilluh 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Also didn't think about Luna that way until now. Thanks ☺

[–]kaseydilluh 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I feel like this makes sense about the patronus thing too because of the difficulty reading and portraying emotion (at least in a conventional way).

[–]AliasAurora 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I see what you're getting at. Girls on the spectrum, especially those who fly under the radar and are never diagnosed, tend to be good at mimicking others' movements and speech patterns because it helps them to fit in.

Hermione is excellent with spellwork that requires good technique. She was the first student in the class to master Wingardium Leviosa: a perfect "swish and flick," and she also observed that the spell had to be pronounced very precisely.

The Patronus Charm is a spell that requires the caster to access a certain mindset. It was difficult for everyone to learn, but I think the reason it was so much harder for Hermione was in part because she couldn't just watch someone else do it and then replicate their technique. She did the same thing she always does when she learns a new spell, but this time, it didn't work like it was supposed to. It's like moving to a city at high altitude and water doesn't boil when it's supposed to. Maybe you were a great cook before you moved, and you took pride in it, but nothing comes out right anymore and you start to doubt yourself.

I also believe that after her first few unsuccessful attempts, there may have been anxiety and fear of failure/embarrassment at play, which made it even more difficult to get in the right state of mind for the spell. The more sure you are that you can't cast it, the less likely you are to succeed.

[–]zsjt 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I kind of disagree-- Hermione has always been portrayed not just as exceptionally bright, but also extremely adept at understanding and interpreting the emotions of others. Something I always loved about her was that she was a strong female character that showed us that it was ok to love reading and to do well in school. She showed us you could be emotional (she cried frequently, and when she was close to Harry and Ron, also hugged them) but also courageous. She's a well rounded character that has many stereotypical traits given to both male and female characters.

Sometimes people who are incredibly intelligent struggle to find their place amongst peers, which is how I always viewed the young Hermione. Once she had friends, and learned that there was more to value than book-smarts, you really saw her grow and she had fewer and fewer "difficult" interactions with others. What do you think?

[–]CrunchyDragons 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I identified with Hermione from the very beginning, to the point that I went for her at Halloween 4 years in a row, and I thought I was also magical and could meet her. I was diagnosed with Asperger's as a teen, and after reading the series with that diagnosis the only thing I can possibly conclude about Hermione is that she's on the spectrum as well.

[–]BabyPuncherBob 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Consider the fact that, while she is quite adept in most forms of magic, she finds it especially difficult to produce a Patronus - something which indicates a lack of happy memories from earlier in her life.

...She does?

I don't remember her having a harder time than any of the other DA members.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yes, she does. This plot point is especially relevant in DH, when they go to the Ministry to take the locket from Umbridge.

Also, I edited that line to read "something which could indicate", since there are other factors involved in casting a Patronus as well (such as the ability to focus, as was noted above by /u/starsliver).

[–]Lewon_SChange my mind 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't remember her being worse exactly but being average which is very rare for her. could be worng though.

[–]ladzappalin 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Do we ever find out if Hermione ever finds a way to restore her parents memory after the defeat of Voldemort? The idea that both her parents are alive and well yet she can never see them again is heartbreaking at the least, and I'm unaware of any way to reverse such a charm. This is one thing that always bothered me after the last book

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

See this comment by /u/pupububu earlier in the thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/harrypotter/comments/6shums/thoughts_on_hermiones_childhood/dlcw5b8/) for our discussion of that.

[–]ladzappalin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am finally at peace thank you

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I always imagined that the advent of her powers caused her bookishness. Hermione doesn't stop studying until she finds satisfactory answers. If there were circumstances in her life she couldn't explain, she'd turn to books for answers until Dumbledore or McGonagall turned up to tell her why strange things kept happening to her.

[–]bananachips17 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't think it was her parents being too strict. When I was younger other kids didn't like my personality so I focused on being smart so I could feel better than them. I was super socially anxious and it made me feel like I didn't need friends, but that didn't necessarily make me happy.

Edit: I also remember a lot of negotiating with my mom. If she was stopping me from doing something I would insist on a reason and then i usually found a way to convince her otherwise. It could be that her parents were too lenient.

[–]hawkwings 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sometimes when people move, they lose their old friends and some people have trouble making new friends. People who move to small towns can run into that problem where they are viewed as outsiders. I wonder if that contributed to her introversion. If you are good at something there is a tendency to try to perfect it. I ended up with a math degree, because that is what I'm good at.

[–]jgf1123 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am with you up through not having polished social skills due to lack of use. While it is possible that the original reason for this is because of a strict household, there are alternative explanations. Consider the following: a young Hermione attends muggle school. Maybe she is shy. Maybe she prefers books to other students because they talk about uninteresting things. Maybe she's excluded for some reason by other children (e.g. being bookish, being black in a white school). Maybe she transfers schools and everyone else knows each other but she's a stranger. Her isolation limits her social interactions, and her unpracticed social skills feeds spending more time with books than people because children, and humans in general, tend to spend more time on things they like or are good at than things they dislike or are bad at.

[–]Tbhjr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I always figured Hermione was the loner who spent more time in her books than socializing and finding friends. Not as a result of not caring about making friends, but rather she always felt out of place and couldn't relate to anyone. As much as Hermione didn't seem to care about Harry or Ron initially (due to a clash in priorities), I believe deep down she wanted friends but didn't know what to do about it so she was just always "around", much to their annoyance.

[–]whyhellothere77 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I always just assumed her parents were a lot like her. Always reading and trying to stay between the lines. And as for the patronus I think it’s because it’s a different kind of magic, more than just concentrating and knowing the incantation and the wand movement.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

I personally always found it curious that Hermione spends so little time at home. She stays at Hogwarts for Christmas, she spends her holidays at the Burrow or Grimauld Place. I mean, she is just a little kid, she is away almost all year, why doesn't she spend more time with her parents when she can? Does that mean her parents are really strict or that they are not very close? Maybe not, it's just me wondering.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

She often told them she was staying behind so she could keep studying, and she mentioned that they were disappointed when she didn't come home. I think ultimately her desire for learning overpowered any connections she had to her family, loving or not.

And this is a bit of a grim segue, but bouncing off of what /u/Obversa said here, it does make me wonder how well she treats her own children: https://www.reddit.com/r/harrypotter/comments/6shums/thoughts_on_hermiones_childhood/dldy2qv/

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Thanks for the ping / reference!

The article "The Curse of Perfectionism" by Adrian Furnham Ph.D., Professor of Psychology at University College London and Oxford, also goes into more detail about what I believe to be Hermione's "perfectionism" - and her views, mindset, and behaviors, especially towards others.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

For some reason, the quote marks got caught up in the url there. Here's the correct link for anyone who wants to read this article - it's quite good: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sideways-view/201402/the-curse-perfectionism

"Pathological perfectionists are both unhappy and unproductive," to quote Dr. Furnham. Well, Hermione breaks that mold because she is certainly productive - but how happy is she?

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think that's a good question. Thanks as well for listing out the full URL!

From another source:

Some experts believe that the cause of being a perfectionist could be genetic predisposition. Other experts think that it’s more likely due to environmental factors such as:

  • Their self-esteem depends on constant praise.
    • They’ve been humiliated during their childhood and they want to be socially accepted.
    • Their parents are very authoritarian.
    • They grew up surrounded by successful people and haven’t been successful themselves.
    • They have a very low tolerance for failure.
    • They’re aware that society is highly competitive.

[...] The society in which we live – with all its norms, laws, trends, ways of seeing the world – makes us want to be better than others. Being a failure is not seen well. Society believes that success is true happiness. But can we really live with this pressure? This is where being a perfectionist starts to be a problem.

[...] Always being correct, doing things well, not straying from the path – none of this will make you better. Understand that the more you try to be a perfect person, the less you are.

People aren’t perfect and we should embrace our imperfections as a part of us. They make us who we are. Only when we embrace our imperfections will we find perfect happiness. Because forcing ourselves to be something we’re not will not make us happy. All it will do is frustrate us and stress us out.

But what is day-to-day life like for a perfectionist? To start, we’ll tell you that they live with constant low self-esteem. So much so that not even praise from other people will make them feel better.

Guilt, pessimism, and obsession are three words that define them perfectly. Because they’ll never achieve what they want, because absolute perfection is impossible to achieve.

This will often cause them to fall into a depression, because disappointments and frustrations come one after another.

They become very inflexible and can not be spontaneous. Nothing about them is natural anymore; they become rigid, without any grace.

Like many other syndromes, perfectionism can also be overcome. As long as the person is aware that this attitude is not bringing them happiness.

When they’re aware that they have a problem, that their obsession with perfection is the result of pressure that they’ve been put under, they’ll be ready to take the first step towards acceptance.

It’s true that seeking to improve ourselves is very positive. We should all learn to be better, but never fall victim to perfectionism.

We should embrace imperfection, giving all we have to everything we can, but without obsessing over achieving something that we’ll never be able to achieve. (Source)

[–]bradtoughy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hermione was an only child who must have been confused and isolated in her youth. Coming from a non-magical family, she wouldn't have an explanation for her abilities.

Even if her parents were loving and supportive (which I believe they were) they couldn't possibly relate to and truly empathize with their only daughter. This inability to properly connect made it impossible for Hermione to have a deep and meaningful relationship with her parents.

She channeled her lack of youthful relationships into her pursuit of knowledge, both to satisfy her thirst for answers and to fill an emotional hole inside of her. This type of childhood would not naturally lend itself to proper socialization and indeed we see examples of her stumbling when placed in situations with her peers early on in Hogwarts.

Brilliance is sometimes a burden, but Hermione bears it well and adjusts when given an opportunity to be among people more like herself.

[–]RaeMcJ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Whenever I find people having questions like this it makes me want to say "Let's go ask JKR on Pottermore or Twitter! She'll tell us." But I never do it. She's great at giving extra info. It's interesting that all this time since the last book/movie that she hasn't given any details of Hermione's childhood.

[–]lemonlickingsourpuss 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think Hermione was probably bullied as a child, not only is she described as not very pretty in the books, bushy hair, big teeth, etc, she's also very smart and kids could probably tell there was something different about her (being a witch) even they didn't know what exactly it was, and bullied her just for being different. She probably already had strange things happening around her from being isolated from her peers and being talked down too, and she knew something was different about her too and probably felt like an outcast. So her outward hostility towards other kids was kind of a defense mechanism, we know she dishes it out just as well as the bullies do in Hogwarts. Why would she be different in the muggle world?
Edit: As far as her parents are concerned, I don't think they were abusive. As you pointed out they went out of their way to help her and be a part of her new world. But I also think in a way they're relieved to have found out she's a witch. It explains why their daughter was so different and it must've taken a lot of pressure off them to know they weren't doing something wrong when she didn't make friends in the muggle world, and there was nothing wrong with her. She was different, but in a good way. I also think they're a bit cautious around her, or at least wizards in general, because they aren't sure what the magical people are capable of.

[–]Remioli 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Your first point made me realize I probably would not like Hermione at all, at least for a while. I guess that was kind of the point.

[–]elbowsssSlytherin Head Girl -[Horned Serpent] Accio Beer! 2 points3 points  (1 child)

This inspired a lot of really great conversation! FIVE POINTS TO RAVENCLAW

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh my goodness! The first time I've ever earned house points! Thank you!

[–]emofishermen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

not entirely sure on the abuse she mightve felt, just because her parents treated her well sometimes or she seemed to love them. paremts can still do horribly cruel things at one time, and treat you well right afterwards. especially since if she wasnt close to anyone else, she felt that she had to love and cherish her parents no matter what, and just normalized their abusive behavior. cruel punishments or emotional abuse when she wasnt the best or unnecessary rules or a strict authority over her and plenty more types of abuse she couldve normalized. although, you are right that there isnt many details to go on, just saying that you cannot rule out abuse for only the things youve mentioned

[–]galaxikk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean I always kind of assumed this after her reaction to Ron complaining about her in the first book

[–]ABZBRavenclaw Arithmancer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hermione reminds me of me.

Unquestioned belief in 'the rules', lives in books, no real friends until late in childhood, does not seem to know how to interact with peers, lectures at drop of a hat....

going on book-canon, I've always more or less pegged Hermione as a fellow aspie.

[–]majeric 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So wizards have weird shit happen around them when they are coming into their powers.Hermoine is brilliant. It's likely she was antisocial but intellectually capable. She probably aced school and did extra study all the time.

When she got her Hogwarts letter and realized she was a witch. Everything fell into place. When she got her books she probably just read them all before getting to school. ( God knows I would have). More over I suspect she thought that everyone one as an academic brain like her and that her witchiness was why she was smart. She was probably confronted by the fact that she was still academinally,superior when she witnessed a spell she already read about and realized she could perform better.

[–]nerdy3000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Her parents were also standoffish when she brought them to diagon alley, and she mentioned her parents would be mad that she allowed her teeth to be fixed by magic. I agree it's very likely her parents were strict and a bit distant. I picture them to be almost like a muggle version of the Malfoy family, they are kind of cold, not neglectful but they do care.

[–]Maeby_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hermione's parents were dentists. Both of them. Dentists. This is supposed to just feel like a typical Muggle profession of the type Arthur Weasley would be fascinated by, the idea of going to a person specialized in something as trivial as dental care. But what really does a dentist do? Fix flaws. Perfect the imperfect. Two parents who had devoted their lives to finding the perfect image must have a perfect daughter. Of course, no one ever said it out loud, but Hermione could, from her precocious youth, see her parents' glow at her accomplishments and silent sighs at her miscomings.

[–]dougshackleford 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Has anyone ever thought she had Asperger's?

[–]Pollyjuice22Ravens paw 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think she just wanted to please her parents like and good kid does!

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top 200 commentsshow all 287

[–]Angieflibble 427 points428 points  (16 children)

I never imagined her to be forced to get good grades. I always imagined that her magic made her feel isolated and different so making friends was hard because she didn't understand how people couldn't just do things that she could. That loneliness combined with high intelligence meant that she could relate more to people in books than those around her so it was her retreat and not her punishment.

[–]mindputteeGets into fights with inanimate objects 179 points180 points  (6 children)

And considering she had teasable features like the buck teeth and bushy hair, I'm guessing kids saw her weirdness as more excuses to bully her and that as a result she retreated into the books and studies because books aren't mean to you.

[–]jentlefolk 42 points43 points  (3 children)

ASoIaF readers might disagree with you.

[–]mindputteeGets into fights with inanimate objects 19 points20 points  (1 child)

Don't I know that one... but not as mean as authors who don't finish their books >.>

[–]gingerkitty21 5 points6 points  (0 children)

as an awkward pre-teen myself, this gave me all the feels...

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 119 points120 points  (6 children)

I agree it was probably more of a retreat than a punishment, too. I think maybe her parents didn't necessarily "force" her to do well, but rather impressed upon her the need to excel, and her own psyche sort of took over from there.

[–]traumajunkie46 67 points68 points  (4 children)

I agree 100% with books likely being more of a retreat. I've always sympathized with Hermione, I think she grew up a lot like I did and books were a retreat, not a punishment and because I was always reading books and inherently a perfectionist I drove myself to get good grades and be top of my class. I don't remember my parents pushing me very hard to do well in school, it was a combination of internal ambition and social isolation that led me to do well in school because I had nothing better to do (i.e. no friends to hang out with).

[–]FluffyWof 21 points22 points  (3 children)

It's the same with me! My parents were immigrants to a new country, had a bad marriage and I was an only child, so I never learnt proper social skills with them. Meanwhile, I was a very quick study and found that kids my own age were slower to learn new concepts, so I quickly lost my patience with them as I excelled to the top of the class. So, when you're a bit rude and short with your own classmates, plus you sort of look down on them anyway, you won't tend to have many friends. That caused my social isolation and hence, my dive further into the world of books.

I feel like Hermione was so smart (she's always the first to grasp new concepts) that she quickly became a smarmy know it all, and was consequently isolated. No doubt her bushy hair and buck teeth were no help to her here too. And that caused her to find even more solace in her books. Her parents were probably at a bit of a loss, they clearly knew she was very intelligent but a bit odd, but didn't really know how to deal with her. But they clearly loved her and encouraged her to be her. I don't feel that Hermione's parents were in a bad marriage however.

[–]vannamei 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Now I imagine her parents also rejoiced when invitation from Hogwarts came, because Hermione was very excited and looked happy. It seems they were good parents who would do whatever to make her happy, even by letting her go into a secret world they themselves could never enter. They must be mystified and a bit anxious how to deal with this brilliant but odd little girl.

[–]FluffyWof 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Yes exactly :)

[–]Erger 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Her parents were both dentists, which means they were well educated so their home probably placed a lot of emphasis on learning and studying.

[–]foxfunk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

With both her parents being dentists I always imagined that she was probably under some pressure to do well academically. Though I agree that her parents were probably not forcing her in some kind of abusive way, just that they would want the best for her.

[–]starsliver 769 points770 points  (53 children)

To be honest I always thought Hermione had an hard time with the Patronus Charm because it was hard for her to 'lose herself.' By that to complete lose herself in the memory, to shut everything else out.

I've always been curious about her underage magic. The fact that she had such an apitude for it it makes me wonder if she somehow had some control over it before Hogwarts like Lily and Tom. However the fact that she says it was 'ever such a surprise' when she got her letter implies that she did sincerely not ever suspect that she was actually a witch.

[–]summertime214 400 points401 points  (3 children)

I always took that to mean it was a surprise that she wasn't the only one, and that there was even a school for people like her. She was probably pretty excited that there was a lot more to magic than the basic telekinetic things we saw other children doing.

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 64 points65 points  (2 children)

Well, I mean, just look at how Tom Riddle reacted to being told he was a wizard. He already knew he was "different" from the other children; even "special". I find it easy to believe that Hermione also realized pretty much the same about herself, that she was "different" from other children her age, even years before she got her Hogwarts letter.

From a personal standpoint, I have a diagnosed autism spectrum disorder; my brain works very differently from other people's. From around age 8-9, or even earlier, I knew something was "off" or "different" about me. I was ostracized from my peers my age, and bullied quite a lot for seeming "odd", "weird", and "strange". However, I never understood why this was, until my parents took me to see a professional psychologist for evaluation.

I can imagine Hermione going through the same process in her childhood (as well as Tom Riddle, by extent), albeit with being magical.


As an edit, I wanted to include my original writing / explanation about the above childhood experience (and diagnosis process), which was posted here on /r/stevenuniverse originally.

[–]professor_rumbleroar 21 points22 points  (0 children)

And Lily probably would have had a similar experience of feeling "weird" and "other" without fully understanding why had Snape not been around to tell her.

[–]IziseryUnauthorized Cinnamon 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Look at how Tom and Harry used their underage magic. Tom always used his on other people, knew what they were thinking, could hurt them, make them do things. Harry used his magic on himself, could apparate away, grow his own hair back, change inanimate objects like the sweater and the glass. This is why Voldermort knows he is different from others but Harry only understands that he is treated differently from others. He knows strange things happen around him, but he doesn't believe he causes them. Depending on how Hermione's magic manifests she might not realize she is causing it to happen. She may have been just as surprised as Harry to find out that she was a witch.

[–]ReservoirPussy 254 points255 points  (16 children)

I imagine she'd identified with Dahl's Mathilda and left it at that, never imagining there was a whole school for people like her.

Edited to add "Dahl's"

[–]StarshipSopie 59 points60 points  (3 children)

She probably also got her hands on Carrie, we can see that she doesn't shirk from violence when necessary.

[–]SilverSuicuneWith sharp edged wit and pointed poise 23 points24 points  (2 children)

I always had a head canon Carrie is a mutant in the marvel universe. Carrie reads books about people like her, with other abilities in the library. She has powers very similar to Jean Grey, and ultimately loses control so she could be inhabited by The Phoenix Force.

But we can also argue about her being in the Matilda universe, same types of powers/people, similar kind of neglected upbringing, abuse. Matilda was still young, and at school she had support. Carrie was older and high school kids are horrible. If Miss Honey wasn't around, Matilda could have very much been a Carrie-type.

[–]j_2_the_esse 3 points4 points  (1 child)

head canon

What do you mean?

[–]moshtradamus_ 11 points12 points  (0 children)

In your head, that's the way it is.

[–]TRB1783 84 points85 points  (4 children)

Mathilda is part of the Potterverse in my headcanon.

[–]Not_SteveSweet Hufflepuff from valley broad 71 points72 points  (3 children)

Definitely a Ravenclaw. Miss Honey would be so proud of her.

[–]TRB1783 43 points44 points  (2 children)

Can we go by the movie version, to get Mara Wilson and Danny Devito in the universe?

[–]Not_SteveSweet Hufflepuff from valley broad 42 points43 points  (1 child)

If we do, Mathilda would go to Ilvermorny. That's not a bad thing, but her author, Roald Dahl, is British. Really, you could go either way. American movie or British book.

[–]IAMAbutthole420 14 points15 points  (6 children)

American here, read that Mathilda as in Hopkirk from the ministry. We spell everything different for some weird reason and now I get that you meant Matilda as in the book/movie.

[–]KiriokoSlytherin 23 points24 points  (4 children)

I was really confused because everyone was working it like Mathilda and it felt the Bearenstein Bears moment all over again, with me thinking I've been misspelling it this whole time...

[–]shorthairednymphDogwood and Unicorn Hair 23 points24 points  (3 children)

Okay, I don't wanna give you guys another Mandela Effect moment, but I should inform you that the Ministry of Magic employee's name you're thinking of is Mafalda, not Mathilda

[–]KiriokoSlytherin 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Oh yes, she didn't even occur to me. I was thinking of the six year old.

[–]Ralph-HinkleyKarlyPilkboy II 1 point2 points  (0 children)

That was who Hermione impersonated in the MoM.

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 14 points15 points  (0 children)

It's actually Mafalda Hopkirk.

[–]on_my_lunch_break 75 points76 points  (17 children)

Same here -- Hermione is really good at remembering information and following precise recipes, movements, and incantations... but a patronus is mostly about how you feel. In that regard, it's almost more like flying -- which is another magical subject that I don't think Hermione shows any special aptitude for.

[–]mrshinyredplanet 66 points67 points  (16 children)

This. Part of the richness of the magical world created by Rowling is that there is no one witch or wizard who can perform every task. Its a faceted world, with many aspects. Harry is a decidedly middle of the road magician, except for his aptitude with flying and DADA. He is able to succeed at potions when the instructions improve. Neville sucks at most things except herbology. Ron is quite good at charms ( especially if he studied more). Hermione is not great at DADA, and her rational mind flat out refuses to accept Divination. But we know, as readers, that the world does not play by Herminone's rules. It is far deeper.

That is what appeals to me. Everyone can find something they'd be good at in Rowling's Wizardry world.

[–]hrbrox 38 points39 points  (9 children)

I agree with most of this, except he succeeds in potions once the instructions improve. Snape always puts the instructions on the board instead of having them follow the textbook so I think it's reasonable to assume he was putting up his modified instructions, which is why Hermione's potions seem to go from excellent to just good in Slughorn's class.
The difference for Harry's work comes from him no longer being in a class with a teacher who actively hates him (a feeling that is mutual) and no longer having his potions sabotaged both by snape and the other slytherins. Was them throwing things in people's cauldrons canon or have I read too much ff?

[–]AkhilArtha 28 points29 points  (3 children)

If there was a difference between the instructions on the board and in the book, Hermione would definitely have brought that up, in the 5 years that Snape taught them potions.

[–]hrbrox 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Fair point.

[–]Violetricemoon6th year, Vine & Phoenix 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Then again, Snape only made minor adjustments to potions - and it is likely the potions in the 6th year textbook are all different to ones she'd brewed previously, so may not have seen the instructions for (or may have seen but not memorised to the point of noticing any differences)

[–]AkhilArtha 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hermione would definitely have memorised all the potions text books every year before the year even would have begun. She definitely would notice the difference.

[–]xodus112 13 points14 points  (4 children)

I'd say McGonnagal, Snape and, to a greater extent, Dumbledore and Voldemort seem to be good at everything. I also got the impression that Harry is at least an above average wizard and would be a more well-rounded wizard than say, Hermione, if he applied himself. For example, a lot of DADA involves essentially casting offensive and defensive charms spells. But Harry is better at DADA than Charms because he has more of an interest in DADA.

[–]whogivesashirtdotcaroonil wazlib 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Dumbledore and Voldemort seem to be good at everything.

Tom Riddle wasn't chosen for the Quidditch team. This triggered his campaign of death and destruction.

[–]xodus112 21 points22 points  (0 children)

The Potterverse version of Hitler not getting into art school.

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I know this is meant to be a joke, but in all seriousness, I think that Tom Riddle simply was never on the Slytherin Quidditch team for the same reasons Hermione was never on the Gryffindor Quidditch team. He was too much of a bookish nerd to really care much for, or be interested in, "popular sports".

[–]GigadweebHHr shippers pls go 4 points5 points  (0 children)

riddle would be like those neckbeards on reddit who calls everything 'sportsball'

[–]loamfarer 69 points70 points  (6 children)

She may have been doing minor magic feats, but coming to know about the larger magic community and their was an entire life for her in it certainly would be a surprise.

I can imagine her making claims about her minor feats to her parents only to be first humored then patronized. Then eventually Dumbledore appears and affirms Hermione.

[–]ClarSco 50 points51 points  (1 child)

It's possible that she would also be either rationalising her magical experiences in a similar way that we are shown that Harry was doing prior to receiving his Hogwarts letter (Eg. clothes shrinking in the wash) or convincing herself it was a dream.

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Copying what I posted higher up, as I think it's quite relevant to this as well.

Well, I mean, just look at how Tom Riddle reacted to being told he was a wizard. He already knew he was "different" from the other children; even "special". I find it easy to believe that Hermione also realized pretty much the same about herself, that she was "different" from other children her age, even years before she got her Hogwarts letter.

From a personal standpoint, I have a diagnosed autism spectrum disorder; my brain works very differently from other people's. From around age 8-9, or even earlier, I knew something was "off" or "different" about me. I was ostracized from my peers my age, and bullied quite a lot for seeming "odd", "weird", and "strange". However, I never understood why this was, until my parents took me to see a professional psychologist for evaluation.

I can imagine Hermione going through the same process in her childhood (as well as Tom Riddle, by extent), albeit with being magical.

As an edit, I wanted to include my original writing / explanation about the above childhood experience (and diagnosis process), which was posted here on /r/stevenuniverse originally.

Even in childhood, skepticism can only go so far in "explaining things away", and may be a coping mechanism to avoid the distress involved in not having a logical explanation for something being present / ocurring.

In some cases, certain things - or, in this case, magic - may have been something that Hermione simply couldn't understand at the time. I am of the personal opinion that, given her personality, it would've ignited her curiosity, and driven her to go to great lengths to find the reason / explanation of it.

After all, Hermione was certainly more than intelligent and bright at that age to not notice that something was "off". That "strange things" happened around her, especially as related to powerful emotions.

Like Riddle, I have a feeling that Hermione was already practicing, or even mastered, certain nonverbal / wandless spells or types of magic before she even get her letter, albeit without knowing the words for them. i.e. Alohomora (unlocking spell) or Reparo (repairing spell).

This would also explain why Hermione seems to know them, or be good at them, from the get-go in the books, from Harry's perspective.

[–]Blondfucius_Say 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Does it actually say in the books who comes to inform the muggles? I suppose it could be Dumbledore each time, I just don't recall.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 41 points42 points  (2 children)

Back then, sometimes it was Dumbledore and sometimes it was McGonagall. Not sure if that's directly stated in the books, but I've read it on Pottermore, at least. The Head and the Deputy Head divide the duties of informing Muggle parents between themselves. Today, the responsibility lies with McGonagall and whomever her Deputy Head is.

[–]wjweimar 23 points24 points  (0 children)

I have a headcanon that she made Neville her deputy when he came to teach. Before that, Flitwick was temporary deputy.

[–]justaprimer 8 points9 points  (0 children)

My personal thought is that it was McGonagall, but I have no proof for this theory. Just the feeling that she would be a much better first introduction to wizards for the typical muggle family.

[–]The5ifthColumn 25 points26 points  (1 child)

She may have suspected she was a witch, but surprised by the fact that a witchcraft and wizardry school existed.

[–]bandhani 31 points32 points  (0 children)

yes, and that she wasn't alone. Finally she had people she'd be able to relate to.

So she comes barging on the train and immediately befriends Neville, the lamest kid of all. Her assumption that she's relatable and is normal to continues until Halloween when she hears Ron trash talking her after a Charms lesson.

[–]gp24249 8 points9 points  (0 children)

But did she know that there was a "wizard/ witch" world at all prior to receiving the letter ?

Maybe she had these "skills" and didn't know what they were... and (maybe) because of them she stayed away from other kids.

[–]CaseOfLeaves 6 points7 points  (0 children)

She may have suspected she was a witch, but that's rather different from there being a large covert community of witches and wizards with their own school, townships, etc. that send out recruitment letters.

[–]WildxYak 5 points6 points  (0 children)

To be honest I always thought Hermione had an hard time with the Patronus Charm because it was hard for her to 'lose herself.' By that to complete lose herself in the memory, to shut everything else out.

I've usually thought that she struggles with the fact it's not a 'straight out the book' type spell and, similarly to what you said, finds it hard to 'lose herself'.

[–]suology 520 points521 points  (35 children)

I think your points are very fair and I would have to agree. I don't think there is any evidence for this, but I like to think that she noticed her ability to do magic far before she got her letter to Hogwarts. She seems sharp enough to notice that her accidental magic isn't average. This might have contributed to her isolation from other kids. But of course, this is unsupported speculation.

[–]Not_SteveSweet Hufflepuff from valley broad 168 points169 points  (14 children)

Aww. Little 'mione recedes into the safety of her parents and books while other kids are confused and maybe a little afraid of her. That makes me sad.

She ends up happy. She ends up happy. She ends up happy.

[–]Throwawayjust_incaseLikes dragons maybe a little too much 49 points50 points  (13 children)

Aw man, as someone who grew up with mental illnesses this hits a little too close

[–]Not_SteveSweet Hufflepuff from valley broad 47 points48 points  (12 children)

She ends up happy.

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 6 points7 points  (4 children)

But does she? She is certainly ambitious; she is with the man she loves; and she has a family, yes.

However, for Hermione, being the Head of the DLME, and later, the Minister of Magic, is an extremely "busy", high-stress job. I would equate it to being President for those in the United States, or being Prime Minister for those in the United Kingdom. Given the nature of such a position, Hermione would be an extremely busy public figure and individual.

As such, her stress and anxiety would likely be through the roof. Her time with her children, and her husband, would also likely be severely curtailed and restricted. Having spent most of her adulthood climbing the ranks of the Ministry, and tirelessly working to achieve her goals - after all, Hermione becomes Minister by age 40 - it makes me wonder if Hermione even knows how to be "happy and content".

As an ambitious person, to quote Hamilton, it takes one to know that ambitious people are usually "never satisfied". Even though they might seem happy and content, usually below the surface, there's an air of being so driven, and so ambitious, that they "achieve things like they're running out of time".

They usually don't know how (much less when) to "take a break" or "relax". They're usually always "go, go, go", and very "intense", "always online", and "always thinking / caculating" sort of people.

On paper, Hermione appears to "have it all" - a perfect husband, a perfect job, a perfect family, a perfect life. However...is she truly happy?

[–]Gyissan 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I think her happiness equates to having stuff to actually do, so MoM fits her quite well.

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Maybe "happy" by her definition, but I don't think it would be Ron's definition, exactly. I think, if anything, it could cause more tension between them as a couple.

[–]Not_SteveSweet Hufflepuff from valley broad 2 points3 points  (0 children)

... D:

[–]gorgossia 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Emmanuel Macron became President at 39, he doesn't seem exactly washed up and at the end of his rope.

[–]on_my_lunch_break 24 points25 points  (4 children)

OMG she's Matilda! But with less-shit parents.

[–]djSexPanther 71 points72 points  (13 children)

I feel like there could be a decent psycholgical thriller in a Hermione prequel. Here we have this bookish young girl driven by cold, calculating, unimpassioned reason. She suddenly notices all these strange things happening, strange things she can do. She starts to go a little insane, she thinks she must be crazy. Then it ends with the biggest, stupidest deus ex machina "Congratulations! You're a witch! You have magic powers! I'm a Professor at Hogwarts and I'm here to tell you about this hidden world you'll soon be a part of."

I feel like that could be a pretty decent short/fan film and it would be funny that no one knows is a Harry Potter fan film until it ends.

[–]vivestalin 57 points58 points  (1 child)

hermione is shown to be extremely compassionate though, who else would start spew?

[–]forknoxA Dead Elf 15 points16 points  (7 children)

With a name as common as Hermiine, no one would suspect a thing before the twist.

[–]Oliver5366As High As Honor 20 points21 points  (3 children)

It's entirely possible to make a movie where you don't know the main character's name. Ever seen Fight Club?

[–]ScherazadeWhat a rotter! 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Just really emphasise the parents are into Shakespeare.

[–]djSexPanther 12 points13 points  (0 children)

Obviously the girl would remain unnamed until the moment of the twist ending

[–]ScherazadeWhat a rotter! 31 points32 points  (1 child)

Would be kinda like Matilda but without the abuse, and Bruce, who sacrificed himself upon the cake for our sins, so that Matilda could ascend.

[–]JJ3595Turtle Whisperer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I was just thinking this. Hermione's childhood is a big unexplored area. Would be interesting to read a book about her everyday childhood life pre-Hogwarts (or even what her summers are like after a term).

[–]JuniorALPine - Dragon Heartstring, 13" 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hermione is good with magic because she is good with the theory of magic. She lacks the natural aptitude to it, Lily could control her magic because she was using her happiness and Tom Riddle was highly magical so technically he was the only one capable of reliably using wandless magic before Hogwarts. Hermione didn't think of conjuring fire in her 1st year, she said that there was no wood. Highly magical people would want to use magic for everything and think of using magic first. Luna, Hagrid and Dumbledore are highly magical, just to name a few.

[–]poopiverse 108 points109 points  (14 children)

I agree with the idea that she may have felt pressured to achieve good grades and perform by her parents. She's the only child of two professionals (dentists) which suggests that they at least were academics themselves. I don't know if I agree that they did this directly or intentionally though.

They're obviously supportive of her and foster her independence quite a bit. They allowed her to choose whether she came home for holidays, though she said they were disappointed when she didn't, for example.

I also agree that she shows signs of not having interacted much with other kids before Hogwarts. My guess would be that since both her parents had well paying professional jobs, she probably had a nanny and was possibly even homeschooled before getting her letter. Her vocabulary and general manner of speaking also suggests that she spent the majority of her time either alone or with adults.

[–]SashWhitGrabby 69 points70 points  (13 children)

Was just about to say this. Only children (my nephew for example) typically have larger vocabularies as well as tend to put themselves in positions where they have authority. So it doesn't surprise me that she wouldn't have much interaction with other kids. My nephew would always say that the kids his age were "stupid" even though they were just normal kids. He knew more because of the opportunities he had as an only child.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 26 points27 points  (12 children)

Another possible reason why Hermione occasionally clashed with Harry and Luna (who are also only children)?

[–]SashWhitGrabby 49 points50 points  (11 children)

Technically Harry is an only child but he grew up with his cousin. For me the difference with Luna is that her mother died and her father took care of her. In some ways she probably had to grow up a little especially since she saw her die. I mean look at Draco. While he does have friends, they're not real. He's arrogant and pushy almost like Hermione is in the first scene with Harry and Ron.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 52 points53 points  (10 children)

Somebody in this thread made a slight Hermione/Dudley comparison by suggesting that she was spoiled. But now that you bring up Draco... yes, he is far more spoiled than she could possibly be. But they do indeed share a certain pushiness...

The most ironic thing in all of this is that Luna (yes, Luna) is probably the most mature and self-aware of all the kids. Yes, Neville has a similar background in that his grandad died and his parents were tortured, but I also don't think he's as comfortable in his own skin as Luna is (not when we first meet him, at least).

[–]SashWhitGrabby 37 points38 points  (4 children)

I just realized how many of the characters are only children. Interesting. But I do agree that Luna is more self-aware & more comfortable in her own skin. Hermione, for me always felt like she had to prove her worth. Loneliness can do some strange things to self-esteem.

[–]FluffyWof 16 points17 points  (3 children)

Well apparently there weren't so many children because of the war with Voldemort. So people were scared of having children in such a war stricken environment.

[–]TheIvoryDingoAlder wood, Unicorn, 10 3/4", Slightly Springy 8 points9 points  (2 children)

Aside from the Weasleys.

[–]FluffyWof 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I think they kept having kids because they wanted a daughter so badly! Makes me wonder why there isn't a magical solution to pre selecting the sex of your child. There would be a magical birth control I'm sure so it wouldn't be from an accident or something. Maybe the Weasleys couldn't afford it.

[–]poopiverse 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I think magic wouldn't be able to change chromosomes or DNA. Transfiguration can change you for a time but you always can go back, so I don't think there would be a way to control gender or anything else with a child in utero. If they could there probably wouldn't be squibs for example.

[–]forknoxA Dead Elf 3 points4 points  (4 children)

The most ironic thing in all of this is that Luna (yes, Luna) is probably the most mature and self-aware of all the kids.

How/why?

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 24 points25 points  (3 children)

How she's the most mature / self-aware: 1) Because she watched her mother die and then helped her dad take care not just of her but of himself. 2) Because she saw death so early in her life - old enough that she could be fully conscious of what it was - and learned to accept it as part of life. 3) Because she never tried to be anything other than the person she was, and never tried to change. Unlike many of the other kids, she didn't have a character arc in the series, because she didn't need one. She was already complete, having already gone through all the formative experiences of her life.

Why it's ironic: Because the majority of people at school assume that Luna is an airheaded conspiracy theorist who doesn't really understand anything about the world, when in fact she's extremely insightful and (as noted above) has been through much more than most of the other characters realize.

[–]FluffyWof 9 points10 points  (2 children)

I absolutely adore her. So glad she married who she did (Newt Scamander's grandson!!) Perfect match.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 9 points10 points  (1 child)

She could've worked with Harry, too, perhaps. Her gentle, soothing nature would have been good for him. But then again, if Harry/Luna were canon, there would be all sorts of fans complaining that Luna was too "strange" for Harry because they wanted him to be with somebody else. I'd hate to see Luna treated like that. As it is, poor Ginny gets a lot of hate from some fans who didn't want Harry to marry her, and she doesn't deserve it at all. Ginny is awesome.

Plus, the thought of Rolf and Luna going on expeditions together is really sweet. I still think Harry/Luna could've been something, and I ship it pretty heavily... but Rolf/Luna is also a nice pairing. Frankly, it's a testament to Luna's loving nature that she could have been a great girlfriend/wife for almost anybody you pair her with.

[–]FluffyWof 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Yes you're so right! Luna would be the perfect girlfriend provided you didn't mind her 'eccentrics'. But I think she's so loveable, so it's a moot point for me. She strikes me as being incredibly caring, empathetic and you know she'd always support and encourage you in chasing your ambitions and dreams, be interesting enough so you wouldn't be bored, comfort you in times of stress and overall be a really great rock of strong moral fibre.

Book Ginny is great, I like her and Harry together. They balance each out very well and have similar history and interests.

[–]Spock_Rocket 31 points32 points  (7 children)

Her behavior could also mean she was a bit spoiled. Not Dudley level because she's a good person, but used to being able to say whatever without being chided.

[–]FluffyWof 16 points17 points  (6 children)

The thing is, she was almost always right. There's not much to chide her on, as I've found that IRL the accuracy of someone's claims sort of voids how they say it (in the offensive person's own mind) So it wasn't like she was spoilt by horrible parents, just that maybe they didn't think it was worth pulling her down on something trivial, especially when she seemed to be a model child in every other aspect (obeying rules, perfect scores etc).

Of course, given my own experience I would definitely remind my child to be more patient and tolerant; as I wasn't told as a child and it sort of made me a bit insufferable too.

EDIT: made more clear that I meant coming across as abrasive often isn't important to the rude person themself, it's more about what they actually say versus how they say it in their own mind

[–]2muchtaurine 12 points13 points  (5 children)

In my experience the way something is said is often just as important as what's said. That was true for me growing up and it's perhaps even more true in the working world. It's very easy to be 100% inarguably correct while still managing to offend someone or otherwise put them off. That is representative of questionable social skills.

If it is true that Hermione was never corrected on her delivery as a child, that goes a long to way to explaining just why she had such a hard time adapting in her first year at Hogwarts. As much crap as Ron, and to a much lesser extent Harry, get for being mean to Hermione in the early days, for some reason people tend to either forget or ignore that she had a tendency to come across as extremely condescending (hence much of the discussion in this thread), and that can be just as hard to deal with as being made fun of behind one's back, especially as an 11 year old. I absolutely adore Hermione, but her correctness does not excuse her tone.

[–]FluffyWof 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Oh I totally agree! It's now a thing of mine to be aware of the way I said things, rather than just what I was saying. It was probably the biggest obstacle to why I wasn't well liked growing up. What I should have indicated more precisely is that, for the people who are rude etc, it doesn't matter how they're coming across, what matters to them is that they're right.

I don't think it's excusable at all too, I just am trying to guess why she didn't find it important enough to change her tone and things like that, and using myself as a drawing point. She came across as a bit of a brat, which I'm sure any proper parent would have aimed to correct, but to Hermione herself what probably was more important was that she was ultimately right, not whether or not she offended someone in the process.

[–]2muchtaurine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ah sorry, I misunderstood your meaning. Yes, I wholeheartedly agree.

[–]Mendoza2909 3 points4 points  (2 children)

I would say that being 11 does excuse her tone though. Children can be insufferable know-it-alls at that age (to quote a certain potions master). I certainly was. I think she grows out of it over time.

[–]2muchtaurine 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I agree that to a certain extent her behavior can be excused, but I think that Ron's behavior in response to her's (the thing that people to this day continue to criticize her for) can be just as easily excused. She does grow out of (most of) it over the years though. I agree with that as well.

[–]pupububu 50 points51 points  (10 children)

Do we know what happened to her parents after the second war, did she go back and reverse the spell?

[–]Kittycat-bananaCherry and Dragon; Quite Bendy 94 points95 points  (0 children)

I believe Rowling confirmed Hermione did go back after the war and reverse their memories.

[–]heissenburgerflipper 15 points16 points  (0 children)

Always wondered this

[–]Rarecandy31 34 points35 points  (7 children)

In a way I hope that she didn't. Not because I am diabolical! The gravity of what she did would be so much less significant if she could just go back and reverse the spell if they won the war. I feel like that is the point, and illustrates just how much Hermione sacrificed for their cause; she could have easily gone into hiding with her parents, but chose to remove them from her life so that she could fight for what she believed in. Either way, Hermione is the best :)

[–]CheddaShredda 7 points8 points  (4 children)

Yeah I agree with this point. Also kind of an inconsitency considering how hard it was for Lockhart after his Memory Charm backfired. I know his was probably stronger, it still feels like too much of a difference

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 22 points23 points  (1 child)

It could be, and this is just a theory here, that the caster of the memory-erasing charm is the one who would be able to reverse it - much like how a hypnotist can both hypnotize and un-hypnotize you. However, the problem for Lockhart is that he cast the charm on himself, leading to a Catch-22 where he's the only one who could reverse it but he doesn't know how to do it anymore.

[–]AlamutJones 24 points25 points  (0 children)

Lockhart also got blasted by a fundamentally damaged wand. It's possible that ANY spell cast by a broken or damaged wand is more difficult to undo.

When Hermione did it, it was controlled, deliberate and her wand was in perfect condition. When it happened to Lockhart, it was a raw chaotic backblast with no real control, from a wand held together with tape and happy thoughts.

[–]AiraBranford 18 points19 points  (0 children)

It was a different memory charm, and besides, the key point in Lockhart's case was the broken wand, not the spell itself.

[–]justaprimer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I feel like maybe to undo a memory charm you need to know a person well enough and take enough time with the reversal to patiently restore all their memories one by one. And Hermione definitely would have had that patience and care for her parents.

[–]ButtonsAndSoup 2 points3 points  (0 children)

We had so much tragedy during the wizarding war, I'm ok with one thing being easy and fixable.

[–]Violetricemoon6th year, Vine & Phoenix 2 points3 points  (0 children)

That's a really interesting point. I just want to add, though, that part of the significance of the memory spell is not necessarily that it may be irreversible, but that she just doesn't know what would happen. She doesn't know if the war will last a month, a year, ten years, the rest of her life... she doesn't know if she will die and her parents will never be aware that they had a dead daughter... she could be going for years without a mother and father, with the knowledge that it's her own fault. That being said, it's really interesting (and heartbreaking!) that her parents could be an intentional sacrifice for the war.

[–]VinceVenom 22 points23 points  (2 children)

I've always thought it was weird that she flinches at the sound of Voldemort's name. Like why would she be conditioned to do it if she only heard about him right before she came to Hogwarts? It seems like she may have been putting it on to fit in with other wizards.

Also makes sense as to why she was the first one besides Harry to start saying his name regularly.

[–]Nik-kik 20 points21 points  (3 children)

I can definitely see her as the type of kid that hung out with the adults more than the kids.

But maybe her parents aren't super friendly/talkative, so she never really learned how to greet people?

[–]justaprimer 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Agreed! Or her parents are friendly but they only ever had adults over to dinner, and adult conversations are definitely different than kid conversations. Hermione never seems to have any trouble making connections with the teachers at Hogwarts, only her fellow classmates.

[–]Lewon_SChange my mind 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I remember reading a book about an autistic guy who found he related better to adults then children his own age. Adults would just go along with whatever he was saying even if it was weird but children would point it out and get bored by info dumping. I'm not sure that hermione is autistic just that it could have been a similar situation. Especially with no siblings.

[–]rory_4 20 points21 points  (13 children)

Harry had a horrible childhood and hes great at making a patronus

[–]research_humanity 31 points32 points  (12 children)

Kittens

[–]FluffyWof 22 points23 points  (7 children)

I always thought Harry was incredibly well balanced for what he's been through when we meet him in Book 1.

[–]research_humanity 16 points17 points  (6 children)

Kittens

[–]FluffyWof 16 points17 points  (5 children)

I would never even attempt to physically harm a child. This is life as Harry knows it, but the fact that they've tried to harm him with a frying pan is horrendous. It's made out for humour, but hidden under that is a portrayal of extremely dangerous and abusive treatment of children. Dumbledore straight out says it in HBP when he visits the Dursleys. The Dursleys are reprehensible people. He's normalised this shocking behaviour. Harry doesn't bother protesting because he's smart and knows that energy would be better used elsewhere. He's not beaten down or self pitying. That's what I mean by him being very well balanced.

[–]research_humanity 10 points11 points  (4 children)

Puppies

[–]FluffyWof 6 points7 points  (3 children)

Really! You didn't think he was abused? What was your childhood like? I knew that Harry was abused and neglected because there were so many stark contrasts with Dudley. I was sort of spoilt materially as a child (even though my parents didn't have a good marriage and we weren't rich) in that my parents sacrificed a lot to give me a good education, food and clothes etc.

I felt that Harry lacked a lot of material comforts when the Dursleys were clearly within their means to not give him the worst of everything, especially with giving Dudley, like, 38 presents and Harry old socks or whatever. That combined with being so dismissive of Harry's emotional needs meant to me, even at 8 or how old I was, he was very clearly abused. That level of favouritism isn't just favouritism, it's pretty much abuse lol. He was just a smart kid who felt like he would be able to escape his situation so didn't worry about it as much as he might have.

Anyway what I mean is that Rowling was sort of like Dickens, both authors placed their protagonists in very sad situations, but the boys themselves were incredibly plucky and didn't feel too sorry for themselves.

[–]justaprimer 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I had a great childhood with amazing, loving parents, much like I imagine Hermione's was. When I was reading the first books, I didn't think Harry was abused because I didn't know what abuse really was. I didn't think he was not abused, but my mind just didn't jump to abuse as a thing that was happening.

I think this is also contributed to by mistreatment being how so many children's books start -- Oliver Twist, Matilda, etc. In these books the mistreatment felt more like abuse, but it's worth noting that Harry was never beaten or starved by the Dursleys, and that all of the physical harm that he undergoes comes from Dudley and his friends rather than the parents. I always put that down as bullying rather than parental abuse. The Dursleys show severe favoritism, but Harry's childhood didn't fit my personal definition of abuse growing up.

[–]vannamei 12 points13 points  (2 children)

And he is extraordinarily mentally resilient. Quite a practical get up and go kind of person. Even in times when he was despised and mocked by other students, he just went through with whatever he thought was right. He had almost no self-pity, not a whiner.

[–]research_humanity 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Kittens

[–]FluffyWof 5 points6 points  (0 children)

I've found people who have to go through genuine hardship tend to be much less complainers than those who suffer mostly from 'first world problems'. You know? So many of those motivational speakers are lighthearted and funny, yet are in some way quite disabled. And then there's that guy who bemoans his lack of neighbourhood good coffee every day lol.

[–]angry_scissoring 66 points67 points  (14 children)

I imagine Hermione's childhood to be a lot like mine. A naturally bright kid with two loving parents who pushed her to her full potential, who always grew up with books rather than a playmate and who wasn't the best at socialization (some people say this has a lot to do with being an only child, I don't know how I feel about that but there is something to be said about being an older child and not growing up with a play mate). I imagine (maybe project a bit) that Hermione was teased for her brains, her being a "teachers pet", and her distinct non-girly attitude. This lead her to draw even further into her books and isolate herself from that social aspect that she's missing by the time she starts Hogwarts. I don't think there was any abuse or insane pressure from her parents. In fact, I don't even think magic had anything to do with it. Hermione is exceptionally bright and would just know that magical powers aren't normal and she should keep them hidden as much as she can.

As far as her Patronus, I think her sturggles are due to the fact that it's not a spell based on technical skill and knowledge, but feeling and emotion. That just doesn't line up for Hermione and that's not how she's approached learning magic so far.

[–]chadthundertalk 35 points36 points  (0 children)

That, or she's just naturally super introverted and socially awkward. Maybe the academic focus was related to her parents, but I know I was (outside of the focus on grades) definitely not dissimilar to that growing up and my mother was the exact opposite of strict.

[–]Bitter_Bridge 23 points24 points  (1 child)

One point that seems contrary to your argument is that Hermione very obviously has extremely high self-esteem, which is not usually a byproduct of a high-pressure household, especially one devoid of happy memories.

[–]opinionated_angel 8 points9 points  (4 children)

I don't believe that her parents were strict I just think it's just who she is (bookish and maybe a little socially awkward when it comes to making friends) and maybe there aren't a lot of happy memories because she didn't grow up with friends because of her socially awkward ways.

[–]justaprimer 18 points19 points  (3 children)

I think that it could also have to do with having had a generally happy childhood. When you grow up happy, it's hard to think of a single overwhelmingly happy memory. Coming from a history of unhappiness, Harry's happiest moments all shine really brightly. But Hermione is probably thinking "oh, I'm happy when my parents hug me! But they always hug me, that's not special. Ooh, how about the time when we went hiking in Southern France? Well, I felt about as happy then as I did on that other vacation to Paris, so maybe that's not happy enough. Plus, it was a whole week, not a moment. What about when Gryffindor won the cup my first year? Hm, that's really everyone's happy memory, not mine." I can totally imagine Hermione going through all of her memories and not finding any single one that she judges as singularly happy enough. High expectations is such a Hermione thing to be stuck on.

[–]AeolianMelodiesAsh, unicorn hair, 11", unyielding 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You do make me realize that the probably overthought the happy memory thing and probably searched way too long for "the" memory lol.

[–]Ralph-HinkleyKarlyPilkboy II 1 point2 points  (1 child)

To produce a patronus, it doesn't necessarily have to be the happiest memory, simply a happy memory. We saw Harry use different memories throughout books 3-7, and still produce his patronus.

[–]justaprimer 2 points3 points  (0 children)

You're definitely right about that -- but can't you imagine Hermione thinking that it does?

[–]mfigzz 9 points10 points  (2 children)

I like to think that Hermoine read Matilda as a child and found solace in it.

[–]PsychoGeek 6 points7 points  (1 child)

I always thought she had been home-schooled. She really seemed to have no idea why barging into a compartment, rubbing peoples' noses into the fact that she's super smart and obnoxiously demanding their help wasn't a thing that was done. Really, this is something no one with a bit of experience in everyday school bullying should have done. It is as if she read in a book that helping others made friends - so she followed the advice without having any prior experience in it.

[–]AeolianMelodiesAsh, unicorn hair, 11", unyielding 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Unless she had a tutor she wouldn't be home-schooled, both her father and her mother work.

[–]lat00uk 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I always assumed that Hermione went to a normal school before getting her letter and she must has displayed superior intelligence from a very early age and I kinda guessed she would have been bullied and then just spent her time consuming everything she could read.

[–]jaymar888 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Also worth mentioning (if not so already) that she spends nearly as many summers and xmas at the Weasleys as Harry does

[–]Narsil098 5 points6 points  (1 child)

AFAIR Hermione is basically young Rowling?

[–]innni 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Hermione is like other very smart people that have some trouble understanding emotions and relating to others. She gets the facts right, but not always the feels.

The artistic nature of some magic. Like the patrons charm, or some of the advanced potions in half blood prince. She knows magical theory and can apply bay knowledge quickly and practically, but lacks the nuance needed to perfect certain magical things.

Other than that, it seemed she had typical social skills for an only child/book worm. They got better as time went on, as she spent more time with other people.

Another thing is, as a young witch, she probably knew she was different. Strange things happen around underage wizards. This maybe led to her isolating herself from muggle children, or making her the target of bullies. When she got the hogwarts letter, it likely all clicked for her, and she had no issue leaving the boring muggle life behind.

[–]reallygay7 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I always took Hermione's bookishness as a sign of wonder at the world around her. I assume she was a decent student in muggle school, but maybe isolated and lonely because of her magic. But then, when she discovered that there was a whole school, world, and community for people like her, she was so intrigued that she felt the need to learn everything about it that she possibly could. Hogwarts textbooks are bestsellers to us and that universe isn't even real, but if it was and all of a sudden we were a part of it, they would be even more intriguing. I know that if I got a letter to hogwarts tomorrow, I would want to know everything about that universe that I could possibly know. And I'd want to be the best at it.

[–]bluepandaicechirpchirp 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Lets not forget that she spends most of the year at school. Then comes holidays, what does she do? Either stay at school or go to the burrow. No wonder it was so easy for her to obliviate her parents.

[–]justaprimer 2 points3 points  (2 children)

This happens in the real world, too, though, although not usually as young as eleven. Your first year or two of college, you're excited about going home and you look forward to it a lot. But then time passes and you make other really strong connections with people you're living with, and then you come to a point where you have to decide whether to spend a vacation with your family or your adopted family. And maybe that first time you decide to go home, but eventually you will decide to spend one vacation with friends instead of family, and then maybe it grows from there. Or later on, when you have an SO -- which family do you go home to for holidays?

For Hermione, she went home for Christmas her first year. She wanted to go home her second year, but the Polyjuice potion was too important. After that, she stays at Hogwarts most winters. During the summer, she doesn't spend significant amounts of time away from home until her 4th year, and that's only because of the Quidditch World Cup. As you spend more time away from home, it becomes easier to live away from home. I think this is a very natural progression for Hermione to undergo.

[–]bluepandaicechirpchirp 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I get what you mean but it must have sucked for her parents. And in college you are basically an adult. She is a child who was not raised by her parents during a time, adolescence, when that would have been important. You have no idea how being distant from parents can mess you up. A friend of mine was never close to his mum and never knew motherly love now he keeps falling for girls who are mortherly in nature. Sounds great except that he is a grown child and these girls cannot put up with his dumb shit, they are not his mother.

[–]justaprimer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Those are fair points, but the question wasn't about whether it was hard for her parents. I was going off this quote from you: "No wonder it was so easy for her to obliviate her parents" and trying to show that just because Hermione doesn't spend every chance she gets with her parents doesn't mean that she doesn't care about them anymore.

With your example of your friend who never knew motherly love -- that's not Hermione at all. Hermione definitely grew up in a loving household, and it was probably exceptionally hard on them all when she went off to boarding school. Just because Hermione sometimes chooses to not spend holidays with her parents doesn't mean that 11 years of everyday love is just forgotten. Ron spends plenty of winter holidays at Hogwarts, and no one is saying that he is distant from his parents or doesn't know motherly love.

[–]DefconDelta88The Overlord 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Doubtful she was forced by her parents. By all (limited) appearances, they seemed pretty supportive. I'd be more inclined to believe that Hermione, having career-driven and well-studied parents, had a natural drive to strive for success in a similar manner. They would certainly set an example of what diligence looks like, and considering Hermione is pretty much a natural-born bookworm and an incredibly smart girl, even without magic there's a certain level of trouble relating to your peers in many situations similar to hers. Some children are simply less adept when it comes to general socialization, while others have a much easier time. My sister, for example, had a MUCH harder time making friends as a child than I did. Both of us were bookish and academically ahead of the majority of our peers, but we had starkly different social perceptions and aptitude as children. She spent more of her time finding her own entertainment and I think there was some level of anxiety there, while I was pretty much outgoing as fuckall and made friends with just about anyone. Some kids are just like that.

In Hermione's case, I'd imagine that she probably found quite a bit of her own entertainment and fulfillment in studies, stories, and self-sufficiency. For particularly intelligent children, it can be difficult to relate to your peers when your interests deviate on a level most kids your age simply can't identify with (or completely lack interest in). Books, for anyone with reasonably advanced reading skills, are an incredibly powerful escape.

Being sent off to Hogwarts likely put her in a situation where she is surrounded by her peers 24 hours a day and unable to retreat to her own little world at home. It isn't unreasonable to assume that this sudden and very constant level of socialization meant that, while she may have not hesitated to try to roll with it, she quickly found herself in uncharted and unexpectedly difficult territory simply for a lack of having to be deeply involved in a social world than before.

It's also quite important to note the age at which these kids start going to Hogwarts. When you hit 11, a lot of the dynamics of childhood begin to change. Referring back to my own childhood, I had a very easy time making friends and maintaining a busy, happy life as a kid, but once the transition into that godforsaken tween-age part of life began, my nerdy ass was suddenly exposed to a completely different dynamic that I was unprepared for. Being a child and being social wasn't difficult because politicking wasn't a factor during those years, but it absolutely becomes a huge factor in the life of preteens and teenagers, and for many of us, it took some time to adjust to. I vividly remember spending those years utterly baffled as to why everyone had become so irrationally complex (and mean, for fuck's sake, kids that age are horrible). The whole social dynamic is just mind-numbing at that point in time, and I can only assume for someone who may have spent less time engaging with other kids, it's just that much more difficult.

Hermione already has a natural personality of "I'm not interested in being right, I'm only interested in what is correct, and I can speak from experience when I say that trying to negotiate a world with an astonishingly high population of people who simply don't seem to care half as much about actual facts, it's extremely difficult to get a hold on. I still to this day have to manually curb the impulse to condescendingly grab people by the shoulders and scream "HOW THE FUCK ARE YOU THIS GOD DAMN STUBBORN?! YOU ARE ARGUING WITH FUCKING MATH. MATH!!"

That impulse to just turn around and correct someone or interject without a ton of grace is much harder to manage as you exit childhood and enter the tumultuous teenage years.

[–]subtlelikeatank 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hermione is A LOT like many of the "gifted/talented" kids I grew up with. Felt out of place among peers, more comfortable with adults, sought validation and praise from elders, needed to be the most correct (and as u/2muchtaurine said already, tone mattered less than being correct, can confirm), found comfort in books and facts, etc.

It would not surprise me if she valued studying and grades as a way for her to demonstrate that she was a good, worthy child and they made sense to her, rather than she was pushed too hard by her parents. If you don't achieve in sports or socially, at least you can still be proud that you have the best marks.

[–]AliasAurora 23 points24 points  (33 children)

I was just watching a video someone posted to /r/aspergirls (I would link it but I'm on mobile) and the lecturer called Hermione the perfect example of a girl with Asperger's. She doesn't understand what things aren't okay to say, she has trouble making friends, and her voracious appetite for books is very much like a special interest.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 8 points9 points  (26 children)

Interesting! I know Luna often gets mentioned as a possible character with Asperger's / high-functioning autism as well. I've never heard this theory regarding Hermione before...

[–]weretomatoEbony & Unicorn 14 1/2" (Thunderbird) 33 points34 points  (15 children)

I don't know what exactly Luna's deal is, but I don't think she's on the spectrum. One can be odd without it being ASD.

[–]unicorn_mafia537 23 points24 points  (3 children)

Honestly, I've never really thought of either of them on the spectrum. I have a few cousins on the lower-middle end and knew several people on the high-functioning/Asperger's side over the years and it doesn't ring true with either Hermione or Luna to me. No doubt, they both are kind of awkward and odd, but not really in an ASD way. Luna seems more eccentric and full of belief, hope, and child-like wonder, taking after her parents, but also being her own person. Hermione's faux paus and difficulty making friends feels familiar. I think it could be a product of social isolation. Feeling more comfortable talking to adults about academic things rather than trying to make friends with the other kids, because the other kids aren't always nice. Reading endless books to feed your imagination. (Note: was homeschooled for elementary school, so socialization wasn't the same or as much as public school). And then reading and reading again in high school, but for different reasons -- depression is a bitch and so is anxiety. Falling out of practice talking to people, so college starts off super awkward. Social isolation does a real number on you. And even after finally finding your friends, bits of it still linger -- a joke comes out mean, second-guessing, laughing too much and doing whatever it takes to get them to laugh, still a little rusty after years of disuse.

TLDR; I'm not discounting aspergirls theory or trying to take away representation in popular culture, but the ASD diagnosis for Hermione just doesn't seem quite accurate to me. It is also of note that I am not a professional nor a spokesperson. But I guess that's the beauty of stories: the characters can become who you feel they are; different for everyone, but fundamentally the same.

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I have a few cousins on the lower-middle end and knew several people on the high-functioning/Asperger's side over the years and it doesn't ring true with either Hermione or Luna to me.

That's because every person with autism is different. There's a common saying in the psychology community: "If you've met one person with autism / Asperger's, you've met one person with autism / Asperger's."

I'm not discounting aspergirls theory or trying to take away representation in popular culture, but the ASD diagnosis for Hermione just doesn't seem quite accurate to me

I'd also point out that, as someone who is not autistic, I think, obviously, you would see Hermione and Luna as "non-autistic" as well. It's a simple matter of personal perception and relating to the characters.

On the other hand, I personally have an autism spectrum disorder. I went through the diagnosis process beginning around age 9. I can definitely see why people with autism / Asperger's relate to Luna and Hermione, because they do share similar traits or symptoms to those with autism / Asperger's.

I think, thus, those with autism / Asperger's would perceive Hermione and Luna to also have autism / Asperger's, because they relate to their characters, and they're "like them". (I know I do, in Hermione's case.)

YMMV - Your Mileage May Vary. Perception of the characters depends on individual reader experience and perception of themselves and others.

[–]unicorn_mafia537 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Very good points!

[–]weretomatoEbony & Unicorn 14 1/2" (Thunderbird) 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Yeah. I was homeschooled all my life and honestly, I'm a lot like Hermione.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 11 points12 points  (10 children)

I don't know, either. I know it's just a theory that's been thrown around before - although I'd want to hear an actual diagnosis from a professional in the field before applying that headcanon to either Hermione or Luna.

My personal take on Luna is that she embodies a childlike state of wonder and imagination.

[–]FluffyWof 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I agree. It seems like she was the way she is because of her parents. They were both very odd. Sort of like the wizard equivalent of tin foil hat wearers.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Xeno was odd, at least. We don't know as much about Pandora. Although... when Harry visited the house, he did see a younger photo of Luna with her mum, where she looked much more well-groomed. That indicates that Pandora was the more orderly parent, although she may still have had some quirks of her own.

I would say that Luna must have inherited her bold, risk-taking side from her mum, since her dad is quite timid (he's almost like a non-evil version of Quirrell, tbh).

[–]FluffyWof 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I agree with that. Luna mentioned that her mother loved to make up spells, which is probably very illegal and unsafe. So both her parents were quirky creative types who probably encouraged her to try new things, believe odd things, and generally exercise her curiosity to its fullest.

Then when her mother died, her father's eccentricity probably became some worse due to trauma and loneliness, with no one to hold him down, and no wife for love and support. So with sort of half a soul, I imagine he delved even deeper into his oddities.

[–]Letshavedinner2 2 points3 points  (3 children)

I'm in psych and it never crossed my mind about either. It's a very interesting theory tho. However, I don't think anyone on the spectrum would have been able to do the adventurous things that group did. Routines and the familiar are crucial, and in many cases necessary, to complete daily activities for those on the spectrum.

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I'd want to hear an actual diagnosis from a professional in the field

I'll copy from what I posted as a reply to another comment. To quote my psychologist's report, which I think is highly relevant here, in Hermione's case:

"A significant factor here, without a formal name and diagnostic code, is intellectual giftedness...her verbal IQ scores places her among the top 3% of her same-age peers, performance IQ is in the top 9%, and full-scale IQ is in the top 4%...she is extremely bright verbally and visually...working memory and visual-motor is average...

"...she scored within the very superior range on subtests measuring her fund of factual knowledge, vocabulary, and visual pattern analysis skills. Superior performance was exhibited on a subtest measuring verbal reasoning. High average scores were yielded by subtests measuring mental math ability, visual-motor sequencing skills, and puzzle assembly skills...she more than likely possesses very superior (i.e. "gifted") overall intelligence."

"...her parents indicated many concerns related to withdrawal, anxiety, sadness, and social problems...her teacher said she was 'delinquent' (e.g., apparent lack of remorse, pairing up with troublemakers, lying) and aggressive behaviors...the child is more prone to internalize (e.g. show sadness and withdrawal) at home, where she is more likely to externalize (e.g. act out) at school..."

[...] "...there are significant signs of cognitive distractibility as well as remarkable signs of anxiety and social problems...indications of poor insight into how others view her."

Diagnosis at the time was ADHD and APDC (Antisocial Personality Disorder of Childhood) with generalized anxiety, later re-classified by the same psychologist to Asperger's Syndrome (now autism spectrum disorder) with OCD and ADD tendencies.

[–]kaseydilluh 6 points7 points  (9 children)

When I was reading OP I thought "Wow! Maybe she's on the spectrum"

[–]haikubot-1911 17 points18 points  (7 children)

When I was reading

OP I thought "Wow! Maybe

She's on the spectrum"

 

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[–]kaseydilluh 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Also didn't think about Luna that way until now. Thanks ☺

[–]kaseydilluh 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I feel like this makes sense about the patronus thing too because of the difficulty reading and portraying emotion (at least in a conventional way).

[–]AliasAurora 19 points20 points  (0 children)

I see what you're getting at. Girls on the spectrum, especially those who fly under the radar and are never diagnosed, tend to be good at mimicking others' movements and speech patterns because it helps them to fit in.

Hermione is excellent with spellwork that requires good technique. She was the first student in the class to master Wingardium Leviosa: a perfect "swish and flick," and she also observed that the spell had to be pronounced very precisely.

The Patronus Charm is a spell that requires the caster to access a certain mindset. It was difficult for everyone to learn, but I think the reason it was so much harder for Hermione was in part because she couldn't just watch someone else do it and then replicate their technique. She did the same thing she always does when she learns a new spell, but this time, it didn't work like it was supposed to. It's like moving to a city at high altitude and water doesn't boil when it's supposed to. Maybe you were a great cook before you moved, and you took pride in it, but nothing comes out right anymore and you start to doubt yourself.

I also believe that after her first few unsuccessful attempts, there may have been anxiety and fear of failure/embarrassment at play, which made it even more difficult to get in the right state of mind for the spell. The more sure you are that you can't cast it, the less likely you are to succeed.

[–]zsjt 8 points9 points  (2 children)

I kind of disagree-- Hermione has always been portrayed not just as exceptionally bright, but also extremely adept at understanding and interpreting the emotions of others. Something I always loved about her was that she was a strong female character that showed us that it was ok to love reading and to do well in school. She showed us you could be emotional (she cried frequently, and when she was close to Harry and Ron, also hugged them) but also courageous. She's a well rounded character that has many stereotypical traits given to both male and female characters.

Sometimes people who are incredibly intelligent struggle to find their place amongst peers, which is how I always viewed the young Hermione. Once she had friends, and learned that there was more to value than book-smarts, you really saw her grow and she had fewer and fewer "difficult" interactions with others. What do you think?

[–]CrunchyDragons 7 points8 points  (0 children)

I identified with Hermione from the very beginning, to the point that I went for her at Halloween 4 years in a row, and I thought I was also magical and could meet her. I was diagnosed with Asperger's as a teen, and after reading the series with that diagnosis the only thing I can possibly conclude about Hermione is that she's on the spectrum as well.

[–]BabyPuncherBob 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Consider the fact that, while she is quite adept in most forms of magic, she finds it especially difficult to produce a Patronus - something which indicates a lack of happy memories from earlier in her life.

...She does?

I don't remember her having a harder time than any of the other DA members.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Yes, she does. This plot point is especially relevant in DH, when they go to the Ministry to take the locket from Umbridge.

Also, I edited that line to read "something which could indicate", since there are other factors involved in casting a Patronus as well (such as the ability to focus, as was noted above by /u/starsliver).

[–]Lewon_SChange my mind 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't remember her being worse exactly but being average which is very rare for her. could be worng though.

[–]ladzappalin 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Do we ever find out if Hermione ever finds a way to restore her parents memory after the defeat of Voldemort? The idea that both her parents are alive and well yet she can never see them again is heartbreaking at the least, and I'm unaware of any way to reverse such a charm. This is one thing that always bothered me after the last book

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 4 points5 points  (1 child)

See this comment by /u/pupububu earlier in the thread (https://www.reddit.com/r/harrypotter/comments/6shums/thoughts_on_hermiones_childhood/dlcw5b8/) for our discussion of that.

[–]ladzappalin 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am finally at peace thank you

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I always imagined that the advent of her powers caused her bookishness. Hermione doesn't stop studying until she finds satisfactory answers. If there were circumstances in her life she couldn't explain, she'd turn to books for answers until Dumbledore or McGonagall turned up to tell her why strange things kept happening to her.

[–]bananachips17 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I don't think it was her parents being too strict. When I was younger other kids didn't like my personality so I focused on being smart so I could feel better than them. I was super socially anxious and it made me feel like I didn't need friends, but that didn't necessarily make me happy.

Edit: I also remember a lot of negotiating with my mom. If she was stopping me from doing something I would insist on a reason and then i usually found a way to convince her otherwise. It could be that her parents were too lenient.

[–]hawkwings 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Sometimes when people move, they lose their old friends and some people have trouble making new friends. People who move to small towns can run into that problem where they are viewed as outsiders. I wonder if that contributed to her introversion. If you are good at something there is a tendency to try to perfect it. I ended up with a math degree, because that is what I'm good at.

[–]jgf1123 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I am with you up through not having polished social skills due to lack of use. While it is possible that the original reason for this is because of a strict household, there are alternative explanations. Consider the following: a young Hermione attends muggle school. Maybe she is shy. Maybe she prefers books to other students because they talk about uninteresting things. Maybe she's excluded for some reason by other children (e.g. being bookish, being black in a white school). Maybe she transfers schools and everyone else knows each other but she's a stranger. Her isolation limits her social interactions, and her unpracticed social skills feeds spending more time with books than people because children, and humans in general, tend to spend more time on things they like or are good at than things they dislike or are bad at.

[–]Tbhjr 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I always figured Hermione was the loner who spent more time in her books than socializing and finding friends. Not as a result of not caring about making friends, but rather she always felt out of place and couldn't relate to anyone. As much as Hermione didn't seem to care about Harry or Ron initially (due to a clash in priorities), I believe deep down she wanted friends but didn't know what to do about it so she was just always "around", much to their annoyance.

[–]whyhellothere77 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I always just assumed her parents were a lot like her. Always reading and trying to stay between the lines. And as for the patronus I think it’s because it’s a different kind of magic, more than just concentrating and knowing the incantation and the wand movement.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (4 children)

I personally always found it curious that Hermione spends so little time at home. She stays at Hogwarts for Christmas, she spends her holidays at the Burrow or Grimauld Place. I mean, she is just a little kid, she is away almost all year, why doesn't she spend more time with her parents when she can? Does that mean her parents are really strict or that they are not very close? Maybe not, it's just me wondering.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 2 points3 points  (3 children)

She often told them she was staying behind so she could keep studying, and she mentioned that they were disappointed when she didn't come home. I think ultimately her desire for learning overpowered any connections she had to her family, loving or not.

And this is a bit of a grim segue, but bouncing off of what /u/Obversa said here, it does make me wonder how well she treats her own children: https://www.reddit.com/r/harrypotter/comments/6shums/thoughts_on_hermiones_childhood/dldy2qv/

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Thanks for the ping / reference!

The article "The Curse of Perfectionism" by Adrian Furnham Ph.D., Professor of Psychology at University College London and Oxford, also goes into more detail about what I believe to be Hermione's "perfectionism" - and her views, mindset, and behaviors, especially towards others.

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

For some reason, the quote marks got caught up in the url there. Here's the correct link for anyone who wants to read this article - it's quite good: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/sideways-view/201402/the-curse-perfectionism

"Pathological perfectionists are both unhappy and unproductive," to quote Dr. Furnham. Well, Hermione breaks that mold because she is certainly productive - but how happy is she?

[–]ObversaRaven / Horned Serpent / Elm with Dragon Core 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I think that's a good question. Thanks as well for listing out the full URL!

From another source:

Some experts believe that the cause of being a perfectionist could be genetic predisposition. Other experts think that it’s more likely due to environmental factors such as:

  • Their self-esteem depends on constant praise.
    • They’ve been humiliated during their childhood and they want to be socially accepted.
    • Their parents are very authoritarian.
    • They grew up surrounded by successful people and haven’t been successful themselves.
    • They have a very low tolerance for failure.
    • They’re aware that society is highly competitive.

[...] The society in which we live – with all its norms, laws, trends, ways of seeing the world – makes us want to be better than others. Being a failure is not seen well. Society believes that success is true happiness. But can we really live with this pressure? This is where being a perfectionist starts to be a problem.

[...] Always being correct, doing things well, not straying from the path – none of this will make you better. Understand that the more you try to be a perfect person, the less you are.

People aren’t perfect and we should embrace our imperfections as a part of us. They make us who we are. Only when we embrace our imperfections will we find perfect happiness. Because forcing ourselves to be something we’re not will not make us happy. All it will do is frustrate us and stress us out.

But what is day-to-day life like for a perfectionist? To start, we’ll tell you that they live with constant low self-esteem. So much so that not even praise from other people will make them feel better.

Guilt, pessimism, and obsession are three words that define them perfectly. Because they’ll never achieve what they want, because absolute perfection is impossible to achieve.

This will often cause them to fall into a depression, because disappointments and frustrations come one after another.

They become very inflexible and can not be spontaneous. Nothing about them is natural anymore; they become rigid, without any grace.

Like many other syndromes, perfectionism can also be overcome. As long as the person is aware that this attitude is not bringing them happiness.

When they’re aware that they have a problem, that their obsession with perfection is the result of pressure that they’ve been put under, they’ll be ready to take the first step towards acceptance.

It’s true that seeking to improve ourselves is very positive. We should all learn to be better, but never fall victim to perfectionism.

We should embrace imperfection, giving all we have to everything we can, but without obsessing over achieving something that we’ll never be able to achieve. (Source)

[–]bradtoughy 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Hermione was an only child who must have been confused and isolated in her youth. Coming from a non-magical family, she wouldn't have an explanation for her abilities.

Even if her parents were loving and supportive (which I believe they were) they couldn't possibly relate to and truly empathize with their only daughter. This inability to properly connect made it impossible for Hermione to have a deep and meaningful relationship with her parents.

She channeled her lack of youthful relationships into her pursuit of knowledge, both to satisfy her thirst for answers and to fill an emotional hole inside of her. This type of childhood would not naturally lend itself to proper socialization and indeed we see examples of her stumbling when placed in situations with her peers early on in Hogwarts.

Brilliance is sometimes a burden, but Hermione bears it well and adjusts when given an opportunity to be among people more like herself.

[–]RaeMcJ 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Whenever I find people having questions like this it makes me want to say "Let's go ask JKR on Pottermore or Twitter! She'll tell us." But I never do it. She's great at giving extra info. It's interesting that all this time since the last book/movie that she hasn't given any details of Hermione's childhood.

[–]lemonlickingsourpuss 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think Hermione was probably bullied as a child, not only is she described as not very pretty in the books, bushy hair, big teeth, etc, she's also very smart and kids could probably tell there was something different about her (being a witch) even they didn't know what exactly it was, and bullied her just for being different. She probably already had strange things happening around her from being isolated from her peers and being talked down too, and she knew something was different about her too and probably felt like an outcast. So her outward hostility towards other kids was kind of a defense mechanism, we know she dishes it out just as well as the bullies do in Hogwarts. Why would she be different in the muggle world?
Edit: As far as her parents are concerned, I don't think they were abusive. As you pointed out they went out of their way to help her and be a part of her new world. But I also think in a way they're relieved to have found out she's a witch. It explains why their daughter was so different and it must've taken a lot of pressure off them to know they weren't doing something wrong when she didn't make friends in the muggle world, and there was nothing wrong with her. She was different, but in a good way. I also think they're a bit cautious around her, or at least wizards in general, because they aren't sure what the magical people are capable of.

[–]Remioli 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Your first point made me realize I probably would not like Hermione at all, at least for a while. I guess that was kind of the point.

[–]elbowsssSlytherin Head Girl -[Horned Serpent] Accio Beer! 2 points3 points  (1 child)

This inspired a lot of really great conversation! FIVE POINTS TO RAVENCLAW

[–]MolochDhalgrenOooh, look, a Blibbering Humdinger![S] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Oh my goodness! The first time I've ever earned house points! Thank you!

[–]emofishermen 1 point2 points  (0 children)

not entirely sure on the abuse she mightve felt, just because her parents treated her well sometimes or she seemed to love them. paremts can still do horribly cruel things at one time, and treat you well right afterwards. especially since if she wasnt close to anyone else, she felt that she had to love and cherish her parents no matter what, and just normalized their abusive behavior. cruel punishments or emotional abuse when she wasnt the best or unnecessary rules or a strict authority over her and plenty more types of abuse she couldve normalized. although, you are right that there isnt many details to go on, just saying that you cannot rule out abuse for only the things youve mentioned

[–]galaxikk 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean I always kind of assumed this after her reaction to Ron complaining about her in the first book

[–]ABZBRavenclaw Arithmancer 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hermione reminds me of me.

Unquestioned belief in 'the rules', lives in books, no real friends until late in childhood, does not seem to know how to interact with peers, lectures at drop of a hat....

going on book-canon, I've always more or less pegged Hermione as a fellow aspie.

[–]majeric 1 point2 points  (0 children)

So wizards have weird shit happen around them when they are coming into their powers.Hermoine is brilliant. It's likely she was antisocial but intellectually capable. She probably aced school and did extra study all the time.

When she got her Hogwarts letter and realized she was a witch. Everything fell into place. When she got her books she probably just read them all before getting to school. ( God knows I would have). More over I suspect she thought that everyone one as an academic brain like her and that her witchiness was why she was smart. She was probably confronted by the fact that she was still academinally,superior when she witnessed a spell she already read about and realized she could perform better.

[–]nerdy3000 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Her parents were also standoffish when she brought them to diagon alley, and she mentioned her parents would be mad that she allowed her teeth to be fixed by magic. I agree it's very likely her parents were strict and a bit distant. I picture them to be almost like a muggle version of the Malfoy family, they are kind of cold, not neglectful but they do care.

[–]Maeby_ 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Hermione's parents were dentists. Both of them. Dentists. This is supposed to just feel like a typical Muggle profession of the type Arthur Weasley would be fascinated by, the idea of going to a person specialized in something as trivial as dental care. But what really does a dentist do? Fix flaws. Perfect the imperfect. Two parents who had devoted their lives to finding the perfect image must have a perfect daughter. Of course, no one ever said it out loud, but Hermione could, from her precocious youth, see her parents' glow at her accomplishments and silent sighs at her miscomings.

[–]dougshackleford 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Has anyone ever thought she had Asperger's?

[–]Pollyjuice22Ravens paw 3 points4 points  (0 children)

I think she just wanted to please her parents like and good kid does!

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