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all 66 comments

[–]DarkRoastJames 20 points21 points  (7 children)

Here's the thing about all the "start a dev blog, post on Twitter, show your game at cons, contact infuencers" style advice - it's conventional wisdom, everyone does it, and thus doing it doesn't accomplish much. Every week I read multiple blogs from people who "did everything right" from a marketing perspective, based on conventional wisdom, who had it amount to nothing.

Someone who thinks they did everything right in regards to marketing usually actually means they used the exact same strategy that everyone else uses, and when there are like 50 games released a day that's not good.

By the time things like marketing advice, which storefronts to target, etc, become conventional wisdom it's too late - it's like a pyramid scheme, it doesn't work for later arrivals. By the time it was common knowledge that releasing on Steam was a good idea that stopped being true, Steam became oversaturated and Steam became a waste of time for many devs. By the time using the #screenshotsaturday tag had become popular enough to warrant a mention in every "how to market" blog it had become both highly competitive (moving from random still shots to highly produced video clips) and mostly ignored.

When you hear advice like "start a dev blog" you aren't hearing it from the 99/100 people who started a dev blog that got 3 views a week and accomplished nothing, you're hearing it from the one person who succeeded and attribute it in part to their blog.

Common advice for a game is "make it stand out" but if you read between the lines of most "how to market your game" writeups the advice is to make your marketing not stand out - just do exactly what everyone else is doing.

Unlike the millions of self-professed marketing experts on this sub I have no idea what the right way to market your game is, but I'm pretty sure that doing exactly what everyone else is doing and following stale conventional wisdom isn't it.

As far as not being on the Steam new releases - there are like 50 games released on Steam a day. Steam uses a snowballing system that is heavily biased towards games that do well out of the gate. If you don't sell immediately then you'll completely fall out of visibility in favor of games that launched stronger. "New releases" is really "new releases that are selling well." It does suck but at the same time there's just so much volume that there's no way each game can sit on the new releases list for a reasonable amount of time.

[–]drludos 3 points4 points  (0 children)

+1000 on this! It's the wisest marketing advice I've read on this sub in a while.

[–]adrixshadow 0 points1 point  (5 children)

As far as not being on the Steam new releases - there are like 50 games released on Steam a day. Steam uses a snowballing system that is heavily biased towards games that do well out of the gate. If you don't sell immediately then you'll completely fall out of visibility in favor of games that launched stronger. "New releases" is really "new releases that are selling well." It does suck but at the same time there's just so much volume that there's no way each game can sit on the new releases list for a reasonable amount of time.

This makes no sense. I understand in having a trending list with your preferences but you should have an option to search things by release date. Especially for tags.

You literally won't exist otherwise.

[–]Snarkstopus 1 point2 points  (4 children)

You literally won't exist otherwise.

That's basically what happened to the OP, and in a general sense, a lot of other developers.

[–]adrixshadow 1 point2 points  (3 children)

And this is acceptable how?

This should be a cause for revolt.

[–]doppel 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Steam is not trying to make every game ir developer successful (though it is not trying NOT to either), the shop caters to the players, the customers who buy the game.

If noone buys a game, they have zero incentive to put it on the frontpage - they are trying to show games that are popular and relevant/similar to what the player already plays. There is no metric for "good game" besides sales that Steam can measure.

You can go in to the full games list, sort by date and scroll through them - but do you ever do that? I don't.

[–]adrixshadow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can go in to the full games list, sort by date and scroll through them - but do you ever do that? I don't.

I search for tags since I am desperate for some tags. But I don't know what kind of shenanigans Steam is pulling there.

[–]Snarkstopus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because front page new release slot is a very scarce thing. You can't give every single new release the same amount of attention on the front page without turning it in a jumbled mess, where no one can benefit from the exposure.

[–]Fulby@Arduxim 6 points7 points  (1 child)

This obviously isn't going to turn your game into a hit but I'd change your first trailer. It makes the gameplay look boring - repeatedly trying to build a structure that gets destroyed with no apparent mechanism to limit the destruction.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, that's an interesting way to look at it. I was hoping that it would show how fast-paced the game can get :P

[–]PremiereBoris@minorfaction 12 points13 points  (12 children)

The reasons for the game's unfortunate failure are plenty and not all under your control. Too simple graphics, not the best trailer and being screwed by Steam Direct are just some of them.

Before you get discouraged and depressed. Congratulations. You did something that not many people have. You made a thing and you should be proud. I think the biggest problem with your game frankly is the price. It should have been $0.99 or maybe $1.99 not $9.99. That's crazy and frankly a bit disrespectful. This is what you are competing against at this price point

Anyway, you are here for advice not for hindsight. Do this: Star working on a content patch to finish by holidays. Right before holidays drop the price to $1.99 along with the free content pack and a visibility round. Squeeze all the sales out of it. Once you can, put it on a 50% discount. Once that tapers off. Move on to a new project.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Thanks for the tough love :) I'm honestly surprised that the game is being valued so low. The price point was chosen because World Boxing Manager was selling decently at $5 despite its lack of polish, and I felt the production quality of Building Block Heroes was on par with other $10 indie titles.

That being said, I'll definitely consider your advice! The content patch is a good idea.

[–]Vladadamm 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Don't forget that with World Boxing Manager you had a niche (boxing) that wasn't overfilled with games. That means, the niche audience : 1. Would consider buying your game, as it's one of the few games available, 2. would be willing to pay much more for your game, as it fits their interests (as well as a lack of cheaper concurrence).

I.e. as a cycling fan, i'm buying Pro Cycling Manager every year, even though there's only a few changes and db update each year. Why ? Because, that's the only cycling sim/management game on the market.

Now, with Building Block Heroes, you don't really have any niche audience. So, you've got thousands of other platformers to compete with. Which means that unless your game really stands out, there will always be games that will look more appealing (as well as potentially being cheaper).

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is absolutely true - I just didn't know how important having a niche fanbase was. I also made the apparent mistake of assuming that the bright and colourful hand-painted graphics of Building Block Heroes WOULD stand out.

That being said, I get your point - I myself am a fan of Football Manager even though it's basically the same each year :P

[–]kiwibonga@kiwibonga 3 points4 points  (7 children)

I would disagree with dropping the price so low -- if you're selling your game for less than $5 a copy, why even sell the game for money? It's a clear indication that the game has very little inherent value, and dropping the price won't magically make your game sell more...

[–]-Cubie- -1 points0 points  (6 children)

I would disagree with dropping the price so low -- if you're selling your game for less than $5 a copy, why even sell the game for money? It's a clear indication that the game has very little inherent value, and dropping the price won't magically make your game sell more...

Except dropping your price will get it to sell more.
There's plenty of games where more money will be made if it's a $2 product, and not $5 or $10.

Why even sell the game for money

Are you saying OP should put it on Steam for free? What for, then? What's the gain from making it free? Because I doubt a game like this will attract a following for OP.

[–]kiwibonga@kiwibonga 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Are you saying OP should put it on Steam for free? What for, then? What's the gain from making it free? Because I doubt a game like this will attract a following for OP.

More like, increase the value proposition, or don't bother :/

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I felt I did. I added different game modes, and a "Fastest Times" screen to try and add replay value to the game. I estimate this game produces about 10-20 hours of gameplay depending on how much of a completionist you are. Compared to some $10 games that are over in an hour or two, I thought it was worth it :/

[–]-Cubie- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright, that's fair

[–]MooseAtTheKeys 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Dropping the price may or may mot get it to sell, but it's certainly not solvimg the doscoverability problem that's really at issue. The OP needs to get the game the attention of people that would buy it before price is remotely a concern.

[–]-Cubie- 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah, that's why I'm for what the original replier suggested: launch a big update and drop the price simultaneously.

[–]MooseAtTheKeys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's only going to be any good if the update actually gets it an audience - which solves the problem without a price drop.

[–]astrallurker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Upvoted because of exactly similar opinion to mine. Just to add, before moving on to new project, make sure you offer it in humble bundles and the likes, as the last ditch effort to get your game sold.

[–]protoknox 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I had a similar experience in a different medium. Before I got into gamedev I was making YouTube videos in my spare time, mostly as something to do but with the secret hope of becoming a YouTuber full time. At one point I wanted to make something amazing, a video that would go viral and be featured on blogs and websites everywhere! I started working on the video thinking it would only take me a few months, and it ended up taking 2 years to complete. When I finally published the video, it did ok, getting about 20,000 views. Not the runaway viral hit I wanted, but I was happy.

A few months later, I had a random idea for a video that I cranked out in a week. This video became the most popular video on YouTube that weekend, getting over 8 million views. I was so confused, and a bit upset. I really wanted my magnum opus to get that sort of attention, and this short video I made had some copyrighted stuff in it so it wasn't completely original nor could I monetize it. Ultimately I decided that the quality of work I wanted to produce on YouTube just wasn't worth the time investment, so I moved on.

Sometimes it's a matter of being in the right place in the right time. Some games are made at just the right moment to fill a niche that is looking for something new. Your boxing manager, while not polished or bug free, filled a niche. Manager and sim games have a small but dedicated crowd and they found something in your game that they couldn't find anywhere else. While your new game is attempting to appeal to a broader audience, the words "puzzle platformer" have really begun to make gamers collectively groan since the genre is just so saturated right now. A cursory Steam search shows that there are almost 1000 results for puzzle platformer, while there are only 140 results for sports manager.

Part of this business is knowing your market. If I were you I'd try to squeeze every last cent out of your new game until the holidays, then focus on creating a new version of your boxing manager. Treat this as a learning experience. You already have a fanbase and tons of feedback to work with, and you know how to properly market your game now. Your first idea was unique, and with some polish I think it could perform better than the first iteration. Whatever you choose to do, best of luck.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I were you I'd try to squeeze every last cent out of your new game until the holidays, then focus on creating a new version of your boxing manager.

Pretty much what I was going to do, except that I'm planning on releasing a large update for my first boxing manager game in the meantime. I've been meaning to go back to it, I was just too busy working on Building Block Heroes :)

Do you mind linking those videos? I'm legitimately curious.

[–]phrygN 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Sorry to hear that bud.

IMO you tried to wear way too many hats, and I'm impressed you were able to accomplish what you did.

I think you wasted way too much time and effort doing the art and music yourself. I know it's tough to do without a budget but you should consider outsourcing those areas next time. It will increase the quality and decrease your workload.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's possible I overstretched myself in hindsight, but the feedback I got on both the art and the music was overwhelmingly positive. Contrasted with the mixed reception toward World Boxing Manager, I had no reason to believe that Building Block Heroes was going to be lumped in with mobile ports :( I'll probably consider it next time.

[–]Nastrod 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Disclaimer: I've never released a game, so obviously I don't really know anything about design or marketing. This is just coming from somebody who buys and plays a lot of games, and why I wouldn't buy yours. I hope you also don't take anything I say too personally, because I think it's really impressive that you released a game. Doing all of it yourself (art and music included) is really cool.

Alright, so my initial visceral reaction when opening the Steam page was "this art does not look good". This is the first thing people see when your game pops up on Steam. The truth is the character designs look very generic and amateurish. You mentioned that you were hoping to pull in interest from the Cuphead crowd, but that's really hard to do when they're comparing that image to stuff like this. After watching the videos and looking at more screenshots I think your backgrounds look very nice -- but again, they're generic, and there's nothing that catches my eye or pulls me in. Your game is likely super fun, but there are piles and piles of bad games on Steam and I'm sad to say yours looks visually much closer to those than to Cuphead.

Like others have mentioned, you're more likely to succeed with a game that looks like that if you're filling a under represented niche. But puzzle platformers are so insanely oversaturated. Most people immediately close the Steam page or hit next on their discovery queue when they hear "puzzle platformer" unless it's visually stunning. The competition in that space is insane.

You mentioned that you got a lot of positive feedback about the art pre-release. Unfortunately, I think people probably were not being entirely honest.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your criticisms are totally valid, and I appreciate the honesty. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

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[–]Zombie_Grunt 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I could use any tips or strategies to help resuscitate some semblance of my game, or at least to help it exist again.

Congratulations on releasing your game. I think most people here can relate to pouring their heart and soul into their projects, hoping for success. Regardless of the sales, I think you achieved something great with your game's release.

If you want to continue with the game, I think you'll need to pull the game and re-release it with new assets created by a paid artist. As well, you'll need a professional (or professional-looking) trailer.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I'm surprised that you think the game needs new assets - people generally seemed to like the art. The trailer might need work though, do you have any tips as to why it looks unprofessional? Besides the lag at the beginning :P

[–]Zombie_Grunt 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Please dont get me wrong. I have nothing but admiration for your work on both games. However, from a player's point of view, I think the graphics would be the main reason from holding me back from purchasing.

For the trailer, it looks like it is a straight gameplay video. I think a more traditional indie game trailer with music, cuts, and descriptions would be a better sell. See here for examples: https://youtu.be/PCW7626bImY

[–]_youtubot_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Video linked by /u/Zombie_Grunt:

Title Channel Published Duration Likes Total Views
Top 7 Best Looking Indie Game Trailers - September 2017 Get Indie Gaming 2017-09-11 0:08:45 430+ (97%) 13,603

Welcome to Get Indie Gaming where we countdown the top 7...


Info | /u/Zombie_Grunt can delete | v2.0.0

[–]Skerperwiki.vo-em.com <- Learn assembly 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think you need to look at why you had a soft hit with your first game. You touched on it yourself - you cornered a niche with the boxing manager game.

People interested in that niche will take what they can get. Sure, your game is a spreadsheet sim and is not very accessible for the average gamer, but that complexity is what people in your niche crave, and very few games satisfy that craving.

For your next game, you actively tried to do the opposite of what brought you success; you tried to target the average gamer.

The average gamer has a huge selection of games to play. It's much harder for you to stand out against damn near every game than it is to stand out against boxing management games.

I bet if you'd instead continued to explore your niche, you would've made quite a bit more impact.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yup, looks like that niche is more important than I thought.

[–]hotdog_jones@crap_weasel 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I don't have too much to add that other redditors haven't said better, but here was my initial reaction:

Based on the art style, the logo and the hardcore primary colours, it honestly looks like something aimed at pretty young children.

Which is obviously fine, if thats what you were going for.

I would also say don't be afraid of failure. Considering you made this game from the ground up, you still have a lot to be proud of.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It wasn't aimed entirely at young children, it was simply meant to be appealing and eye-catching. At the very least, I might be able to leverage this game into a regular job :/ Thanks for the input!

[–]HATA111what's a twitter? 1 point2 points  (2 children)

*types game name into steam search *

"PUZZLE PLATFORMER pops up!"

*groans loudly *

closes tab

I bet I wasn't the only one. You'd have to pay me to play a puzzle platformer.

[–]Nastrod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah..."puzzle platformer with generic art and no immediately apparent unique qualities" is probably the quickest way to get people to GTFO of that Steam page immediately.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Haha, I actually agree, and it's why I described the game as a "puzzle block platformer" instead, hoping it might make people curious.

[–]CheckeredZeebrah 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Edit: Mixed up game names. Whoops, sorry~

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

There seems to have been some confusion - World Boxing Manager isn't the game that flopped, and it's only $5, it was never $9. That being said, this feedback is super useful, because I'm actually meaning to go back and update it now that Building Block Heroes is done. And yes, better tutorial screens are in the pipeline! Thanks for the tips! It certainly helps me consider what to improve when I update World Boxing Manager.

[–]CheckeredZeebrah 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I totally apologize! How embarrassing. I even looked back to make sure I wasn't mixing something up and still missed it anyway; that's what I get for lacking sleep. Thanks for your graceful reply regardless. :P

[–]Dejajoue 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I went to your steam page and watched the first trailer. I’m going to be as honest as I can here, looking at this like a player, I apologize if I sound overly critical.

For $8-10, I’d expect a game with a little more pizzazz. I think your game would look way more sweet if the bricks exploded more “loudly” like a big explosion of color, and I’d make the boulder collide with the ground and break. Have it make a sound, cause it to shake the screen, make it feel more fun! It’d also give you something to look at instead of this big giant just standing there holding a rock.

Your character does not seem to be at any risk from this boulder tossing giant unless I assume he falls off the bottom of the screen? Maybe have it where you can get squished to add stakes to what you’re doing?

The end of that fight... stepping on a button on his back? That was ridiculous. Maybe give the hero a sword and drive it into their weak spot like shadows of the colossus or something?

Just watching the trailer I found myself wondering how it controls, maybe show a controller on screen at some point?

Take some time and watch this: https://youtu.be/AJdEqssNZ-U

[–]_youtubot_ 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Video linked by /u/Dejajoue:

Title Channel Published Duration Likes Total Views
Jan Willem Nijman - Vlambeer - "The art of screenshake" Dutch Game Garden 2013-12-16 0:44:10 3,570+ (98%) 176,769

INDIGO Classes 2013: Jan Willem Nijman is 50% of indie...


Info | /u/Dejajoue can delete | v2.0.0

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hmm you make some good points, and so do the guys in the video. I'm not sure I agree with all your suggestions, but it certainly makes me think.

Your character does not seem to be at any risk from this boulder tossing giant unless I assume he falls off the bottom of the screen? Maybe have it where you can get squished to add stakes to what you’re doing?

This is intentional, the game was meant to be accessible, so the players can't be killed. There are some levels where they can fall through the ground, but that just teleports them back to the start of the level.

[–]Dejajoue 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I figured the no death might be intentional, as it could make things challenging, but that sort of thing stands out when watching the trailer. Why does the boulder hit what I’m standing on but not me?

I definitely think you’ve got a good start it just seems like it needs more polish

[–]MooseAtTheKeys 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Question: Who is the addressable audience for your game?

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Anyone who likes unique gameplay, colourful graphics, and playing co-op with their friends. There wasn't a target niche in particular - I just noticed that puzzle games with unique hooks seemed to do well among smaller games, and that reviews often focused on how good a game looked. Hence I chose an art style that was welcoming and eye-pleasing (so I thought).

[–]MooseAtTheKeys 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This is, frankly, a huge piece of your problem - an addressable audience is not "everyone" or "anyone".

The reason your first game was more successful is entirely because it had a niche that was underserved.

Also, the things that are successful before you start working on a project are going to be absolutely flooded by the time you release.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children)

Here are the screenshots:

https://imgur.com/a/KUn2u

[–]astrallurker 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Based on your screenshot, I can tell that your game might have appear in Cuphead player's discovery list, and a lot of them clicked the "I'm not interested button", this will unfortunately, remove you from the new released list very fast. It's the store algorithm, there's no beating other who might acquired much higher "wishlisted" count than you are.

However, even though this will be a bit sad to say, I still want to congratulate for having released a game and even manage to appear on the front page, you're still better than a lot of us in this sub who spent too much time on reddit, but yet to release any game just like myself. Good Job!

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That might explain it, perhaps fans of Cuphead thought my game would be too slow-paced for them. Thanks!

[–]adrixshadow 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Wait if they remove you from the new release does that not mean you won't exist on Steam at all?

I thought for tags the new releases is just sorting things by release date.

Tags are pretty much essential for targeting specific niches which is the only reliable marketing you have.

[–]astrallurker 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Well if there are 100 games released for the day, it will still be only 10 that appear in front page, if tags is the only thing that counted for you to be in the page you'd disappear within 1 hour I believe and valve dont have to work hard to iterate their store algorithm.

AFAIK, the algorithm take into account the virality rate, number of unskipped discovery, wishlisting, percentage of people saying yes/no, store visit rate, tags and etc. The be straight forward, the store algorithm tries hard to feature games that can potentially sells a lot just because it makes more money for Valve.

[–]adrixshadow 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I'm talking about tag search not the front page. The front page makes sense to give algorithmic recommendations.

But if you are removed tag search you literally won't exist on Steam anymore.

[–]astrallurker 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Tag search do works similarly like front page, in fact even name searches works this way, the difference is it has less competition maybe 20 games released on same day instead of 100 but still, the algorithm will try to push the better selling games from weeks before. If I own steam, this what exactly I'll be doing, I just want more money.

[–]adrixshadow 0 points1 point  (2 children)

So the unpopular games get pushed to the back?

That sounds like a disaster. A person who regularly searches for a tag might not even realize new stuff gets released if popular stuff keeps getting pushed forward.

God Steam does some massive bullshit sometimes.

[–]astrallurker 0 points1 point  (1 child)

So the unpopular games get pushed to the back?

Yes, it is the reality all of us gamedev need to accept and acknowledge because business never built on kindness. The only people who will be kind to gamedevs are only other gamedevs, that's a fact.

[–]adrixshadow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes but that means the solution is some really shady stuff.

Get traffic at all costs kind of thing. Including piracy.

This incentivizes the wrong things.

[–]_mess_ 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Usually ppl complaining for low sales have really subpar games and I often end up with a strong critique and showing why their expectations were too high

in your case I must admit the first impression is pretty good, sure it screams indie all the way but there is a mix of fun stuff going on and interesting things

the only problem I think is the genre which probably isn't very popular and tbh I didn't really understand what the game is about :D

it looks cool in some way but I really didn't understand much about it, also to note I don't play puzzles at all so I can't say more

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the kind words :) Your feedback is consistent with the overwhelmingly positive feedback I was getting pre-release, which is why this game's failure is such a gut punch.

The genre fusion was meant to be a selling point. I was hoping that the unique gameplay would draw people in, not push them away :(

[–]-Cubie- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Usually ppl complaining for low sales have really subpar games and I often end up with a strong critique and showing why their expectations were too high

Yeah, except in this case it seems like OP actually put a bunch of effort into learning whatever it took to get this game made, rather than just making a half-assed game, selling it for $10 and crying about bad sales.

In my experience, finding a game is like dating. At first, only first impressions matter, and looks matter, only then will people ask more about this person, or look more into their profile.
But, as always, some people will look last the looks, and ask about or look into the inside of the person (or game) These people are the only people who will actually give your game a chance. Not all of them will purchase it, but these people will at least look at it.
If your game is aesthetically pleasing, but kind of lame in terms of mechanics, I'm sure it'd do better than the best (mechanically speaking) game ever made, with meh graphics.

That's why I use (in my opinion) aesthetically pleasing assets, rather than try to fabricate my own.

π Rendered by PID 68744 on app-137 at 2017-10-08 08:18:20.517588+00:00 running a20588b country code: JP.

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all 66 comments

[–]DarkRoastJames 20 points21 points  (7 children)

Here's the thing about all the "start a dev blog, post on Twitter, show your game at cons, contact infuencers" style advice - it's conventional wisdom, everyone does it, and thus doing it doesn't accomplish much. Every week I read multiple blogs from people who "did everything right" from a marketing perspective, based on conventional wisdom, who had it amount to nothing.

Someone who thinks they did everything right in regards to marketing usually actually means they used the exact same strategy that everyone else uses, and when there are like 50 games released a day that's not good.

By the time things like marketing advice, which storefronts to target, etc, become conventional wisdom it's too late - it's like a pyramid scheme, it doesn't work for later arrivals. By the time it was common knowledge that releasing on Steam was a good idea that stopped being true, Steam became oversaturated and Steam became a waste of time for many devs. By the time using the #screenshotsaturday tag had become popular enough to warrant a mention in every "how to market" blog it had become both highly competitive (moving from random still shots to highly produced video clips) and mostly ignored.

When you hear advice like "start a dev blog" you aren't hearing it from the 99/100 people who started a dev blog that got 3 views a week and accomplished nothing, you're hearing it from the one person who succeeded and attribute it in part to their blog.

Common advice for a game is "make it stand out" but if you read between the lines of most "how to market your game" writeups the advice is to make your marketing not stand out - just do exactly what everyone else is doing.

Unlike the millions of self-professed marketing experts on this sub I have no idea what the right way to market your game is, but I'm pretty sure that doing exactly what everyone else is doing and following stale conventional wisdom isn't it.

As far as not being on the Steam new releases - there are like 50 games released on Steam a day. Steam uses a snowballing system that is heavily biased towards games that do well out of the gate. If you don't sell immediately then you'll completely fall out of visibility in favor of games that launched stronger. "New releases" is really "new releases that are selling well." It does suck but at the same time there's just so much volume that there's no way each game can sit on the new releases list for a reasonable amount of time.

[–]drludos 3 points4 points  (0 children)

+1000 on this! It's the wisest marketing advice I've read on this sub in a while.

[–]adrixshadow 0 points1 point  (5 children)

As far as not being on the Steam new releases - there are like 50 games released on Steam a day. Steam uses a snowballing system that is heavily biased towards games that do well out of the gate. If you don't sell immediately then you'll completely fall out of visibility in favor of games that launched stronger. "New releases" is really "new releases that are selling well." It does suck but at the same time there's just so much volume that there's no way each game can sit on the new releases list for a reasonable amount of time.

This makes no sense. I understand in having a trending list with your preferences but you should have an option to search things by release date. Especially for tags.

You literally won't exist otherwise.

[–]Snarkstopus 1 point2 points  (4 children)

You literally won't exist otherwise.

That's basically what happened to the OP, and in a general sense, a lot of other developers.

[–]adrixshadow 1 point2 points  (3 children)

And this is acceptable how?

This should be a cause for revolt.

[–]doppel 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Steam is not trying to make every game ir developer successful (though it is not trying NOT to either), the shop caters to the players, the customers who buy the game.

If noone buys a game, they have zero incentive to put it on the frontpage - they are trying to show games that are popular and relevant/similar to what the player already plays. There is no metric for "good game" besides sales that Steam can measure.

You can go in to the full games list, sort by date and scroll through them - but do you ever do that? I don't.

[–]adrixshadow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

You can go in to the full games list, sort by date and scroll through them - but do you ever do that? I don't.

I search for tags since I am desperate for some tags. But I don't know what kind of shenanigans Steam is pulling there.

[–]Snarkstopus 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because front page new release slot is a very scarce thing. You can't give every single new release the same amount of attention on the front page without turning it in a jumbled mess, where no one can benefit from the exposure.

[–]Fulby@Arduxim 6 points7 points  (1 child)

This obviously isn't going to turn your game into a hit but I'd change your first trailer. It makes the gameplay look boring - repeatedly trying to build a structure that gets destroyed with no apparent mechanism to limit the destruction.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Ah, that's an interesting way to look at it. I was hoping that it would show how fast-paced the game can get :P

[–]PremiereBoris@minorfaction 12 points13 points  (12 children)

The reasons for the game's unfortunate failure are plenty and not all under your control. Too simple graphics, not the best trailer and being screwed by Steam Direct are just some of them.

Before you get discouraged and depressed. Congratulations. You did something that not many people have. You made a thing and you should be proud. I think the biggest problem with your game frankly is the price. It should have been $0.99 or maybe $1.99 not $9.99. That's crazy and frankly a bit disrespectful. This is what you are competing against at this price point

Anyway, you are here for advice not for hindsight. Do this: Star working on a content patch to finish by holidays. Right before holidays drop the price to $1.99 along with the free content pack and a visibility round. Squeeze all the sales out of it. Once you can, put it on a 50% discount. Once that tapers off. Move on to a new project.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 2 points3 points  (2 children)

Thanks for the tough love :) I'm honestly surprised that the game is being valued so low. The price point was chosen because World Boxing Manager was selling decently at $5 despite its lack of polish, and I felt the production quality of Building Block Heroes was on par with other $10 indie titles.

That being said, I'll definitely consider your advice! The content patch is a good idea.

[–]Vladadamm 3 points4 points  (1 child)

Don't forget that with World Boxing Manager you had a niche (boxing) that wasn't overfilled with games. That means, the niche audience : 1. Would consider buying your game, as it's one of the few games available, 2. would be willing to pay much more for your game, as it fits their interests (as well as a lack of cheaper concurrence).

I.e. as a cycling fan, i'm buying Pro Cycling Manager every year, even though there's only a few changes and db update each year. Why ? Because, that's the only cycling sim/management game on the market.

Now, with Building Block Heroes, you don't really have any niche audience. So, you've got thousands of other platformers to compete with. Which means that unless your game really stands out, there will always be games that will look more appealing (as well as potentially being cheaper).

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is absolutely true - I just didn't know how important having a niche fanbase was. I also made the apparent mistake of assuming that the bright and colourful hand-painted graphics of Building Block Heroes WOULD stand out.

That being said, I get your point - I myself am a fan of Football Manager even though it's basically the same each year :P

[–]kiwibonga@kiwibonga 3 points4 points  (7 children)

I would disagree with dropping the price so low -- if you're selling your game for less than $5 a copy, why even sell the game for money? It's a clear indication that the game has very little inherent value, and dropping the price won't magically make your game sell more...

[–]-Cubie- -1 points0 points  (6 children)

I would disagree with dropping the price so low -- if you're selling your game for less than $5 a copy, why even sell the game for money? It's a clear indication that the game has very little inherent value, and dropping the price won't magically make your game sell more...

Except dropping your price will get it to sell more.
There's plenty of games where more money will be made if it's a $2 product, and not $5 or $10.

Why even sell the game for money

Are you saying OP should put it on Steam for free? What for, then? What's the gain from making it free? Because I doubt a game like this will attract a following for OP.

[–]kiwibonga@kiwibonga 3 points4 points  (2 children)

Are you saying OP should put it on Steam for free? What for, then? What's the gain from making it free? Because I doubt a game like this will attract a following for OP.

More like, increase the value proposition, or don't bother :/

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I felt I did. I added different game modes, and a "Fastest Times" screen to try and add replay value to the game. I estimate this game produces about 10-20 hours of gameplay depending on how much of a completionist you are. Compared to some $10 games that are over in an hour or two, I thought it was worth it :/

[–]-Cubie- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Alright, that's fair

[–]MooseAtTheKeys 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Dropping the price may or may mot get it to sell, but it's certainly not solvimg the doscoverability problem that's really at issue. The OP needs to get the game the attention of people that would buy it before price is remotely a concern.

[–]-Cubie- 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah, that's why I'm for what the original replier suggested: launch a big update and drop the price simultaneously.

[–]MooseAtTheKeys 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That's only going to be any good if the update actually gets it an audience - which solves the problem without a price drop.

[–]astrallurker 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Upvoted because of exactly similar opinion to mine. Just to add, before moving on to new project, make sure you offer it in humble bundles and the likes, as the last ditch effort to get your game sold.

[–]protoknox 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I had a similar experience in a different medium. Before I got into gamedev I was making YouTube videos in my spare time, mostly as something to do but with the secret hope of becoming a YouTuber full time. At one point I wanted to make something amazing, a video that would go viral and be featured on blogs and websites everywhere! I started working on the video thinking it would only take me a few months, and it ended up taking 2 years to complete. When I finally published the video, it did ok, getting about 20,000 views. Not the runaway viral hit I wanted, but I was happy.

A few months later, I had a random idea for a video that I cranked out in a week. This video became the most popular video on YouTube that weekend, getting over 8 million views. I was so confused, and a bit upset. I really wanted my magnum opus to get that sort of attention, and this short video I made had some copyrighted stuff in it so it wasn't completely original nor could I monetize it. Ultimately I decided that the quality of work I wanted to produce on YouTube just wasn't worth the time investment, so I moved on.

Sometimes it's a matter of being in the right place in the right time. Some games are made at just the right moment to fill a niche that is looking for something new. Your boxing manager, while not polished or bug free, filled a niche. Manager and sim games have a small but dedicated crowd and they found something in your game that they couldn't find anywhere else. While your new game is attempting to appeal to a broader audience, the words "puzzle platformer" have really begun to make gamers collectively groan since the genre is just so saturated right now. A cursory Steam search shows that there are almost 1000 results for puzzle platformer, while there are only 140 results for sports manager.

Part of this business is knowing your market. If I were you I'd try to squeeze every last cent out of your new game until the holidays, then focus on creating a new version of your boxing manager. Treat this as a learning experience. You already have a fanbase and tons of feedback to work with, and you know how to properly market your game now. Your first idea was unique, and with some polish I think it could perform better than the first iteration. Whatever you choose to do, best of luck.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

If I were you I'd try to squeeze every last cent out of your new game until the holidays, then focus on creating a new version of your boxing manager.

Pretty much what I was going to do, except that I'm planning on releasing a large update for my first boxing manager game in the meantime. I've been meaning to go back to it, I was just too busy working on Building Block Heroes :)

Do you mind linking those videos? I'm legitimately curious.

[–]phrygN 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Sorry to hear that bud.

IMO you tried to wear way too many hats, and I'm impressed you were able to accomplish what you did.

I think you wasted way too much time and effort doing the art and music yourself. I know it's tough to do without a budget but you should consider outsourcing those areas next time. It will increase the quality and decrease your workload.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

It's possible I overstretched myself in hindsight, but the feedback I got on both the art and the music was overwhelmingly positive. Contrasted with the mixed reception toward World Boxing Manager, I had no reason to believe that Building Block Heroes was going to be lumped in with mobile ports :( I'll probably consider it next time.

[–]Nastrod 2 points3 points  (4 children)

Disclaimer: I've never released a game, so obviously I don't really know anything about design or marketing. This is just coming from somebody who buys and plays a lot of games, and why I wouldn't buy yours. I hope you also don't take anything I say too personally, because I think it's really impressive that you released a game. Doing all of it yourself (art and music included) is really cool.

Alright, so my initial visceral reaction when opening the Steam page was "this art does not look good". This is the first thing people see when your game pops up on Steam. The truth is the character designs look very generic and amateurish. You mentioned that you were hoping to pull in interest from the Cuphead crowd, but that's really hard to do when they're comparing that image to stuff like this. After watching the videos and looking at more screenshots I think your backgrounds look very nice -- but again, they're generic, and there's nothing that catches my eye or pulls me in. Your game is likely super fun, but there are piles and piles of bad games on Steam and I'm sad to say yours looks visually much closer to those than to Cuphead.

Like others have mentioned, you're more likely to succeed with a game that looks like that if you're filling a under represented niche. But puzzle platformers are so insanely oversaturated. Most people immediately close the Steam page or hit next on their discovery queue when they hear "puzzle platformer" unless it's visually stunning. The competition in that space is insane.

You mentioned that you got a lot of positive feedback about the art pre-release. Unfortunately, I think people probably were not being entirely honest.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Your criticisms are totally valid, and I appreciate the honesty. Hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

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[–]Zombie_Grunt 1 point2 points  (3 children)

I could use any tips or strategies to help resuscitate some semblance of my game, or at least to help it exist again.

Congratulations on releasing your game. I think most people here can relate to pouring their heart and soul into their projects, hoping for success. Regardless of the sales, I think you achieved something great with your game's release.

If you want to continue with the game, I think you'll need to pull the game and re-release it with new assets created by a paid artist. As well, you'll need a professional (or professional-looking) trailer.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children)

I'm surprised that you think the game needs new assets - people generally seemed to like the art. The trailer might need work though, do you have any tips as to why it looks unprofessional? Besides the lag at the beginning :P

[–]Zombie_Grunt 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Please dont get me wrong. I have nothing but admiration for your work on both games. However, from a player's point of view, I think the graphics would be the main reason from holding me back from purchasing.

For the trailer, it looks like it is a straight gameplay video. I think a more traditional indie game trailer with music, cuts, and descriptions would be a better sell. See here for examples: https://youtu.be/PCW7626bImY

[–]_youtubot_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Video linked by /u/Zombie_Grunt:

Title Channel Published Duration Likes Total Views
Top 7 Best Looking Indie Game Trailers - September 2017 Get Indie Gaming 2017-09-11 0:08:45 430+ (97%) 13,603

Welcome to Get Indie Gaming where we countdown the top 7...


Info | /u/Zombie_Grunt can delete | v2.0.0

[–]Skerperwiki.vo-em.com <- Learn assembly 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I think you need to look at why you had a soft hit with your first game. You touched on it yourself - you cornered a niche with the boxing manager game.

People interested in that niche will take what they can get. Sure, your game is a spreadsheet sim and is not very accessible for the average gamer, but that complexity is what people in your niche crave, and very few games satisfy that craving.

For your next game, you actively tried to do the opposite of what brought you success; you tried to target the average gamer.

The average gamer has a huge selection of games to play. It's much harder for you to stand out against damn near every game than it is to stand out against boxing management games.

I bet if you'd instead continued to explore your niche, you would've made quite a bit more impact.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yup, looks like that niche is more important than I thought.

[–]hotdog_jones@crap_weasel 1 point2 points  (1 child)

I don't have too much to add that other redditors haven't said better, but here was my initial reaction:

Based on the art style, the logo and the hardcore primary colours, it honestly looks like something aimed at pretty young children.

Which is obviously fine, if thats what you were going for.

I would also say don't be afraid of failure. Considering you made this game from the ground up, you still have a lot to be proud of.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It wasn't aimed entirely at young children, it was simply meant to be appealing and eye-catching. At the very least, I might be able to leverage this game into a regular job :/ Thanks for the input!

[–]HATA111what's a twitter? 1 point2 points  (2 children)

*types game name into steam search *

"PUZZLE PLATFORMER pops up!"

*groans loudly *

closes tab

I bet I wasn't the only one. You'd have to pay me to play a puzzle platformer.

[–]Nastrod 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah..."puzzle platformer with generic art and no immediately apparent unique qualities" is probably the quickest way to get people to GTFO of that Steam page immediately.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Haha, I actually agree, and it's why I described the game as a "puzzle block platformer" instead, hoping it might make people curious.

[–]CheckeredZeebrah 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Edit: Mixed up game names. Whoops, sorry~

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 1 point2 points  (1 child)

There seems to have been some confusion - World Boxing Manager isn't the game that flopped, and it's only $5, it was never $9. That being said, this feedback is super useful, because I'm actually meaning to go back and update it now that Building Block Heroes is done. And yes, better tutorial screens are in the pipeline! Thanks for the tips! It certainly helps me consider what to improve when I update World Boxing Manager.

[–]CheckeredZeebrah 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I totally apologize! How embarrassing. I even looked back to make sure I wasn't mixing something up and still missed it anyway; that's what I get for lacking sleep. Thanks for your graceful reply regardless. :P

[–]Dejajoue 0 points1 point  (3 children)

I went to your steam page and watched the first trailer. I’m going to be as honest as I can here, looking at this like a player, I apologize if I sound overly critical.

For $8-10, I’d expect a game with a little more pizzazz. I think your game would look way more sweet if the bricks exploded more “loudly” like a big explosion of color, and I’d make the boulder collide with the ground and break. Have it make a sound, cause it to shake the screen, make it feel more fun! It’d also give you something to look at instead of this big giant just standing there holding a rock.

Your character does not seem to be at any risk from this boulder tossing giant unless I assume he falls off the bottom of the screen? Maybe have it where you can get squished to add stakes to what you’re doing?

The end of that fight... stepping on a button on his back? That was ridiculous. Maybe give the hero a sword and drive it into their weak spot like shadows of the colossus or something?

Just watching the trailer I found myself wondering how it controls, maybe show a controller on screen at some point?

Take some time and watch this: https://youtu.be/AJdEqssNZ-U

[–]_youtubot_ 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Video linked by /u/Dejajoue:

Title Channel Published Duration Likes Total Views
Jan Willem Nijman - Vlambeer - "The art of screenshake" Dutch Game Garden 2013-12-16 0:44:10 3,570+ (98%) 176,769

INDIGO Classes 2013: Jan Willem Nijman is 50% of indie...


Info | /u/Dejajoue can delete | v2.0.0

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Hmm you make some good points, and so do the guys in the video. I'm not sure I agree with all your suggestions, but it certainly makes me think.

Your character does not seem to be at any risk from this boulder tossing giant unless I assume he falls off the bottom of the screen? Maybe have it where you can get squished to add stakes to what you’re doing?

This is intentional, the game was meant to be accessible, so the players can't be killed. There are some levels where they can fall through the ground, but that just teleports them back to the start of the level.

[–]Dejajoue 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I figured the no death might be intentional, as it could make things challenging, but that sort of thing stands out when watching the trailer. Why does the boulder hit what I’m standing on but not me?

I definitely think you’ve got a good start it just seems like it needs more polish

[–]MooseAtTheKeys 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Question: Who is the addressable audience for your game?

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Anyone who likes unique gameplay, colourful graphics, and playing co-op with their friends. There wasn't a target niche in particular - I just noticed that puzzle games with unique hooks seemed to do well among smaller games, and that reviews often focused on how good a game looked. Hence I chose an art style that was welcoming and eye-pleasing (so I thought).

[–]MooseAtTheKeys 5 points6 points  (0 children)

This is, frankly, a huge piece of your problem - an addressable audience is not "everyone" or "anyone".

The reason your first game was more successful is entirely because it had a niche that was underserved.

Also, the things that are successful before you start working on a project are going to be absolutely flooded by the time you release.

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (9 children)

Here are the screenshots:

https://imgur.com/a/KUn2u

[–]astrallurker 1 point2 points  (8 children)

Based on your screenshot, I can tell that your game might have appear in Cuphead player's discovery list, and a lot of them clicked the "I'm not interested button", this will unfortunately, remove you from the new released list very fast. It's the store algorithm, there's no beating other who might acquired much higher "wishlisted" count than you are.

However, even though this will be a bit sad to say, I still want to congratulate for having released a game and even manage to appear on the front page, you're still better than a lot of us in this sub who spent too much time on reddit, but yet to release any game just like myself. Good Job!

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

That might explain it, perhaps fans of Cuphead thought my game would be too slow-paced for them. Thanks!

[–]adrixshadow 0 points1 point  (6 children)

Wait if they remove you from the new release does that not mean you won't exist on Steam at all?

I thought for tags the new releases is just sorting things by release date.

Tags are pretty much essential for targeting specific niches which is the only reliable marketing you have.

[–]astrallurker 0 points1 point  (5 children)

Well if there are 100 games released for the day, it will still be only 10 that appear in front page, if tags is the only thing that counted for you to be in the page you'd disappear within 1 hour I believe and valve dont have to work hard to iterate their store algorithm.

AFAIK, the algorithm take into account the virality rate, number of unskipped discovery, wishlisting, percentage of people saying yes/no, store visit rate, tags and etc. The be straight forward, the store algorithm tries hard to feature games that can potentially sells a lot just because it makes more money for Valve.

[–]adrixshadow 0 points1 point  (4 children)

I'm talking about tag search not the front page. The front page makes sense to give algorithmic recommendations.

But if you are removed tag search you literally won't exist on Steam anymore.

[–]astrallurker 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Tag search do works similarly like front page, in fact even name searches works this way, the difference is it has less competition maybe 20 games released on same day instead of 100 but still, the algorithm will try to push the better selling games from weeks before. If I own steam, this what exactly I'll be doing, I just want more money.

[–]adrixshadow 0 points1 point  (2 children)

So the unpopular games get pushed to the back?

That sounds like a disaster. A person who regularly searches for a tag might not even realize new stuff gets released if popular stuff keeps getting pushed forward.

God Steam does some massive bullshit sometimes.

[–]astrallurker 0 points1 point  (1 child)

So the unpopular games get pushed to the back?

Yes, it is the reality all of us gamedev need to accept and acknowledge because business never built on kindness. The only people who will be kind to gamedevs are only other gamedevs, that's a fact.

[–]adrixshadow 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes but that means the solution is some really shady stuff.

Get traffic at all costs kind of thing. Including piracy.

This incentivizes the wrong things.

[–]_mess_ 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Usually ppl complaining for low sales have really subpar games and I often end up with a strong critique and showing why their expectations were too high

in your case I must admit the first impression is pretty good, sure it screams indie all the way but there is a mix of fun stuff going on and interesting things

the only problem I think is the genre which probably isn't very popular and tbh I didn't really understand what the game is about :D

it looks cool in some way but I really didn't understand much about it, also to note I don't play puzzles at all so I can't say more

[–]Aggroblakh[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thanks for the kind words :) Your feedback is consistent with the overwhelmingly positive feedback I was getting pre-release, which is why this game's failure is such a gut punch.

The genre fusion was meant to be a selling point. I was hoping that the unique gameplay would draw people in, not push them away :(

[–]-Cubie- 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Usually ppl complaining for low sales have really subpar games and I often end up with a strong critique and showing why their expectations were too high

Yeah, except in this case it seems like OP actually put a bunch of effort into learning whatever it took to get this game made, rather than just making a half-assed game, selling it for $10 and crying about bad sales.

In my experience, finding a game is like dating. At first, only first impressions matter, and looks matter, only then will people ask more about this person, or look more into their profile.
But, as always, some people will look last the looks, and ask about or look into the inside of the person (or game) These people are the only people who will actually give your game a chance. Not all of them will purchase it, but these people will at least look at it.
If your game is aesthetically pleasing, but kind of lame in terms of mechanics, I'm sure it'd do better than the best (mechanically speaking) game ever made, with meh graphics.

That's why I use (in my opinion) aesthetically pleasing assets, rather than try to fabricate my own.

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