If you dont limit a production in some way you run the risk of holding the bag on pre ordered batches of parts to build games that never get ordered when the potential pool of buyers drop off. The cost of said parts is significant compared to their margins I would wager, and likely an issue someone like american pinball encountered. Im sure you may think unlimited means the company prints money but the real world of inventory and logistics in a niche product says no way

There was absolutely no way for them to tell Winchester or Karl would be a winner, so in that case putting a limit made sense. They are improperly reacting to that success. They've pretty much stated every release will be "limited" going forward, yet don't want to set a clear number.

They announced every release will be limited and unlimited at the same time, it's insanity.

I don’t know. This just feels kinda slimy.

Another subscription...

I can see where you are coming from but i think folks might be conflating the potential difference between announced limit and end limit and it all centers around if that initial limit even sells out in a weeks time to begin with. These arent 6k stern pros, so already the potential buyer pool is reduced on cost alone, then you have the die hards who will buy it right out of the gate, who will also likely be members anyway. We all wont know until we know, ya know? But realistically, I just dont see a limited run jumping that much past the initial number, there just arent that many direct buyers throwing down 12-13k

Did barrels get ZZtop to do a Lethal weapon pin?

One way to ensure your scenario of a thing not selling much more than the initial limit is to do it like this.

I applaud bof for thinking outside the barrel. But id say the first 500(or whatever) is numbered, then rest are open release or some other term.

I came into the thread thinking they released a whiskey or a branded liquor.

Well we had a pew pew named game, maybe next is a drinkn name…

I get what you’re doing, and in theory it’s fine - but this implementation is clunky. Because you first have to announce a number….and some of what drives limited sales is the number…but then you have to announce a new number after 7 days.

Maybe it would be best to have your set LE number…and call any additional ones Reserve Editions?

hmm

Reserve edition…. I like that

Anyone really worried about missing out will pay the $75. Now those people don't need to buy the game if it doesn't sell out. It seems like the strategy these days for many (outside of operators) is to pass on NIB and wait for secondary because of the drop in value, so now there's no reason to buy it until it sells out. I know what they're trying to do, they don't want to leave money on the table, but this feels more like a membership to avoid having to buy any game in advance of it selling out than it is a way to get something everyone else missed out on

Reserve edition...dammit those are the most valuable kind!!!

Heck yeah, I want Reserve Edition 1 of 50!

Collectors Club Edition ?

Anyone can buy the 500 limited number, only a sacred few can own the truly rare Reserve Edition. Mmmm the smoky oak charred barrels make the diffrence.

The more I think about this, the less sense it makes. You pay $75/yr as insurance that the presale window for future products stays open long enough for you to get one. If the initial run doesn't sell out, the $75 is pretty much a waste. If it does sell out (which admittedly is common now), you increase the production size and potentially piss off the original buyers while also expanding the chance to find one second hand (and potentially much cheaper). Why not just follow the Stern/JJP approach of a truly limited first run with something that makes them feel special and "depending on demand" future runs for anyone that wants one.
I don't think anyone believes BoF is going to get rich off of this, but seems like it is alienating potential buyers for no good reason.

I don't know about any of you, but the thing that bothers me most about this is the possibility of the other companies doing the same thing.
A $100 Stern "LE and SLE Club"
A $150 Spooky club
A $200 JJP club
With their own particular variations on this theme and approach. Maybe Spooky, JJP or CGC say you have to be a member in order to place an order at all. That's a friggin' nightmare.
And all I friggin' want is a kick-ass Kill Bill machine...

It was called the fang club and it already happened. Thats why I asked above if it was an auto-renew sitch...Spooky got me on that one.

What's next, you have to make a video to send to the....oh shit nevermind.

Would folks be more into this if it was like the old Spooky club which just gave club members first dibs at preordering a game, rather than "we will make more games for those who pay us?"

It’d be cool if buying a game came with a 1-year membership. That would make it feel a bit more like joining a cool community. As structured this feels like a FOMO insurance policy.

The thing is I’d have done $75 for a membership that just had the events, etc., and support Barrels. Something about the way it’s pitched just really turns me off though. Don’t want to go down the road of “super exclusive” clubs for people who pay up. I’d rather think pinball with boutiques is a little more collaborative given owners are helping them troubleshoot all kinds of issues.

But whatever. It is what is. I guess it’s fine, just feels like a cash grab, for not even very much cash.

Im also just tired subscriptions for every damn thing. Subscriptions for the opportunity to pay full price for something.

At least Spooky was honest aboot it

David: I think the utility of this Barrels Reserve should stress the membership benefits and discounts beyond just being able to buy a sold-out machine within 7 days of it selling out.
The problem is this: the BR members are more likely to commit to buying a new game from BoF than non-members. And that means, ironically, your machines sell out to members BEFORE non-members can buy it, which could exasperate the scalper situation.
Unless, of course, you are going to segment members from regular orders from day one of the release. That's the only way to ensure BoF sells a machine to all who want one within the first week of release. But that's not how this is currently structured. Right now, the "reserve" benefit of membership is only experienced AFTER the machine sells out. But you need to change that for this to work out best for BoF and your customers (which will still mostly be non-members). BoF needs to segment members out of the order pool that determines the total number of machines built beyond the production limit imposed and then add them in on the back end for your total order count if it stretches beyond that limit. A simple Excel spreadsheet will do. Just put members in one column and non-members in another. If and when non-member orders reach the cap on your production limit, then you add on all the member orders to expand the limit on the back end.

I have actually been waiting to see Stern make this part of their IC premium offering. At least that offers some sort of service (though not enough for the cost IMO). The funny thing is that I thought the success of companies like BoF would introduce enough competition that they would help us avoid stuff like this, not encourage it.

I think this is a fine idea as long as:
1. BoF doesn't suddenly reduce the initial intended run number of their pins to drive people into the subscription.
2. BoF starts being as good as Spooky about not having what they're working on next leaking.

Then make more Winchester Mystery House now with subscriptions.
Let me know when the 7days start.
Still not happy about it, and subscription idea is just loony.
Why keep your own company from making more money?? Just make a game and sell it. HARRY POTTER PERFECT EXAMPLE!

Give them a break guys!

They are trying to find the perfect system to sell thru using FOMO, but also to sell more to increase profit, but not enough units to kill the FOMO they had the first place, that sounds tricky!

Harry Potter is a perfect example of a pin manufacturer with a boatload of money backing it doing what it can to make the most money.

BoF is NOT a pin manufacturer with a boat load of money backing it.

Yup, the first 7 days should be for members to order, then the next 7 for the general public

If this includes making more Winchesters I am in

Which is why they should always send me one machine of each title produced. I can let them know.

Costs 2x the regular game, but comes with a unique apron sticker.

Why are pinheads such miserable people? Nothing is ever right or good enough. It's exhausting.

I'm a fan of this - I'm really hoping their next game is Dungeon Crawler Carl. When I saw the ad for Winchester, I seriously considered it. I talked with my wife about it and she was excited about it. It was going to be my first pin. By the time I made the choice to pull the trigger, it was too late. I didn't realize at that time just how quick I needed to be. But with a purchase at this price level, I really want the time to understand what I'm buying. I want to see the early reviews from Retro Ralph, Jamie & Cale. I'm a huge fan of DCC so that almost makes it an instant buy for me, but having those 7 extra days to sit on a major purchase is perfect. That's worth 75 bucks to me. Plus throw in the fact that one lucky member gets a Dune game, hello!! haha-you never know! better become a member now!!

On a serious note, I also think it's good for them to judge interest in their next game. They shot themselves in the foot with the low run on Winchester and could have made a lot more money with it. But that can be a hard guessing game on how many units to declare. This gives them that extra leg room, as its people like me who need a minute that they might get to sale to instead of those just those instant buy no regrets crowd. And just 7 extra days. Its the perfect amount of time.

I’m beginning to think - no actually have decided - that there are many people who don’t want to buy a game until they can’t.

I dont think there is a perfect system either. People complain about Spooky releasing set numbers and sticking to it. Then mad if more pop up as show games (or maybe those are different mad people, its hard to say). Evil Dead available months after release. But the day after it does sell out, people then want one and are slighted they never had the chance.

Beetlejuice didnt sell out because its a great game (it looks like it is but not the point). it sold out because there are a lot of people trying to make a quick buck after seeing the secondary market for Evil Dead. Saw the same with Halloween after Rick & Morty. Ignore the previous releases you can still buy though, they don’t count.

Then we have the Stern model. Keep making or re-releasing so everyone who wants one can have one. Sounds good. But no, people are upset their game doesnt hold value now and stern is destroying the hobby. Stern greedy and bad. JJP bad too.

Maybe this is a new attempt to curb the flipper problem. But the only solution there is for people to stop buying games from them. Which won’t happen because of my original statement. People only want what they can’t have. Flippers will pay the 75 easily. Because they’ll itemize and pass that 75 on to the future buyer anyway. If Winchester was not limited, maybe there would be some of those sitting next to Labyrinth on shelves in Texas.

I thought Dune was handled well. Available for a while. Then announced its not gonna be a forever thing. Place your order by this date if you want one, or if you are on the fence its time to pick a side. Then thats it. Move on.

What i like about this new member model is you don’t have to pay for a membership at all. You can absolutely buy the game on Day 1 if you want, and don’t have to wait for members to take the allocation. All this really does is give a group of members extra time at the end to assess how well the sales are going and if this is the investment er game for them. Not us because none of us buy these for financial gain. Those are the folks none of us know with those pinside burner accounts lol.

Now what i can subscribe to is this. And i’m dead serious. Barrel reserve members (only) actually DO get a bottle of barrel proof whiskey made exclusively for BOF! 75 bucks membership, surely a bottle of whiskey thats limited is worth that. I’m so in.

Yes until you cancel it. The store will email you before it process so you can turn it off if you want to cancel.

As an expert on experts, I can attest to this.
Pinside’s finest.

I no longer live in New York, but that is not sufficient there. You will need to get affirmative consent to an auto-renewal for subscription with a term of one-year or longer.

https://kr.law/news/article-detail/new-yorks-new-automatic-renewal-law-how-it-compares-to-california

(IAALBIANYL.)

Here Here...Every Pin manufacture needs there own label...I would have that as a topper!

I spent $43 on two pizzas last night.
For the cost of 4 pizzas over the next 12 months
I get a Guaranteed chance to buy on two releases...
That was an easy choice to make today.

Here ya go Steve.

IMG_3320 (resized).jpeg

I find it hilarious that y'all are making this big a deal about, what is essentially, a $75 tip for Barrels of Fun.

If you buy a single game, at $10k that's exactly 0.0075% of your purchase.

It's basically a way to guage interest in the very precarious business of pinball manufacturing. I'd love to hear a better idea, cause Ive sure as shit been reading worse ones here.