Talk:List of longest-living state leaders

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Judging by what Lists of state leaders by age did, should people born before 1800 with at least a verifiable date of birth and death (likewise Lascaris) enter? ~2025-31652-74 (talk) 18:46, 31 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see anything wrong with adding it to the list. But the article on Hospitaller Malta says it was a vassal state, meaning it wasn't fully independent. Should it then be added to the Unclear status list? Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 22:39, 31 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I personally wouldn't include him on the list though (but think he would be suitable for the main list because it was still de jure independent). The previous page before it got deleted did only consist of leaders born since 1800 so imo it should stay like that for now, consensus from it. S302921 (talk) 20:01, 31 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I would suggest removing this restriction and adding Lascaris to the list (as well as Enrico Dandolo). Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 16:29, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps, but then the list would get messy and there would be numerous state leaders with obscure lifespans born thousands of years back. Although an interesting case would be Pierre-Antoine Lalloy (1749-1846) who was alive during the mid 1800s but his tenure was in November 1793. S302921 (talk) 16:54, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

That rule would actually be better. If someone at least lived to the 1800s, it would be fine if they qualified. Edits'or (talk) 20:52, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

As this article is essentially a recreation of an article which was previously deleted per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of longest-living state leaders (2nd nomination), it is highly likely that it will be speedy deleted per Wikipedia:Speedy_deletion#G4._Recreation_of_a_page_that_was_deleted_per_a_deletion_discussion. DerbyCountyinNZ ^{(Talk Contribs)} 19:33, 31 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but unlike the previously deleted article, this article does contain citations and is well-sourced, if you are gonna delete this page then delete the oldest living leaders page as well but both of them should stay imo though but I'll let others decide. S302921 (talk) 19:57, 31 December 2025 (UTC)[reply]

It is likely that these people lived to 96 or more, but there is no reliable source. People who "lived" longer than 110 without a reliable source are not included.

Name	State	Position	Birth	Death	Note/s
Sawai Tej Singh Naruka	Alwar State	Raja during Independence from British Raj (1947–1948)	17 March 1911	15 February 2009	Unclear status
Carlos Enrique Díaz de León	Guatemala	Acting President (1954)	15 April 1915	2014	Worldstatesmen claims 1909-1971, but it was proven to be false as his tomb itself claims 1915-2014 [1]
Feliciano Avelar	El Salvador	Member of the Civic-Military Directory (1961-1962)	1919	?	Said to have died before 1965 [2] but was shown to not be dead
Avtar Singh	Sikkim	Political Officer (1964-1966)	18 Oct 1921	2015 (?)	Unlikely position qualifies; possibly died in 2015 [3] common name/surname combination though
Marino Vagnetti	San Marino	Captain Regent (1971-1972, 1989)	11 Feb 1924	2006 (?)	Possibly died in 2006
Ahmad al-Sayari	Yemen	Prime Minister (1962)	1924	?	Unclear status/DoB list No citation, see discussion here
Ambrose Patrick Genda	Sierra Leone	Military president (1967)	20 Apr 1927	2001 or 2015	Unclear status. Possibly died in 2001 and 2015?
Emmanuel Bodjollé	Togo	Chairman of the Insurrection Committee (1963)	1928	?	Unclear DOB list Needs a better citation; unreliably said to have been living in 2021 albeit in a vague sentence: [4]

Right now, it appears unfinished. Edits'or (talk) 05:21, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

[5] could we use this as a source for Madagascar's Calvin Tseibo at all? S302921 (talk) 12:52, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Should Zhang Qun be listed as the longest lived leader of a now-defunct state instead of current Abdul Salam Sabrah? S302921 (talk) 11:19, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think so because Republic of China still exists (even though it is partially recognized now). Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 16:28, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Actually I changed my mind, because the ROC didn't just change governments but also territory since it moved from mainland China to the Taiwanese island, and that assuming Taiwan to be partially recognised implying it to no longer be an official state, but if anybody disagreed I will revert my edit change. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 09:59, 18 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Correct! I think a now-defunct state would be one which got dissolved into smaller states (Raif Dizdarevic, Yugoslavia) or absorbed into another state (Abdul Salam Sabrah, Yemen Arab Republic), not one which essentially got a different government (Zhang Qun, Republic of China). S302921 (talk) 16:59, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Should West Germany be considered a now-defunct state? I don't think so, since legally Germany wasn't reunified, and West Germany (West Germany) instead annexed East Germany (East Germany). In the case of Yemen, as I understand it, it was reunification, not annexation, but I could be wrong. Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 18:49, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Abdul Salam Sabrah did live longer than any German leader in general so it doesn't really matter. S302921 (talk) 20:05, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

In theory, she should be on the Unclear status list. After all, the Tuvan People's Republic was a partially recognized state, recognized only by the USSR and the Mongolian People's Republic. If the leaders of the Republic of China after 1949 are added to the Unclear status list, then Anchimaa-Toka should definitely be there. Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 16:23, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The UN didn't exist during her tenure though, hence why she is on the top list. I think Ukrainian People's Republic would likely also be in a similar status. S302921 (talk) 16:29, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

In the List of oldest living state leaders article, the Dalai Lama is listed on the Unclear status list because Tibet was not widely recognized at the time, even though the UN did not exist then. UN membership or non-membership is not the primary criterion for inclusion on the main or unclear status list. After all, the Ukrainian SSR and the Byelorussian SSR were also UN members, but they weren't independent. Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 16:35, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Actually the reason why he is in the unclear status is because his reign is too obscure to be included (as suggested by the user Maroonandcrimson), see discussion here [6]. Borys Martos's tenure was before the Soviet Union itself was even formed in the first place. S302921 (talk) 16:40, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The TPR was not a member of the then League of Nations (the predecessor of the UN). Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 18:24, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The same would go for the Ukrainian leader since his government was before the USSR got formed and the article itself states its status was a partially recognised state. S302921 (talk) 18:41, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I don't mind. But the UPR seemed to have more statehood and legitimacy than Tuva. Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 18:43, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

By the way on another note, do you think about Vicente Almeida d'Eça and Rafaél de Echagüe y Bermingham should be on the main list like other modern likewise Governor-Generals are? I did initially put them on the Unclear status list because I wasn't sure if they would count but looking back I think at least the latter should be on the top list, do you think any of the two should be on the top list at all? S302921 (talk) 20:07, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

d'Eca and y Bermingham were not sovereign governor-generals. Edits'or (talk) 20:49, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Governor-General of the Philippines describes the role as being 'executive', so perhaps he could be on the top list. Towards the end of the Portugese colonisation, the state did become an autonomy/de facto independent. I don't get what you meant by not sovereign though? S302921 (talk) 20:55, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

"Sovereign" via official head of state. Autonomous regions are, albeit disputed, not a reign of state. They should remain in unclear status in my honest opinion. Edits'or (talk) 21:15, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The Philippines was not an independent state at the time, so I think it should be moved back to the Unclear status list. Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 06:31, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but their Spanish controlled it and the person who "ruled" it for them was the Governor-General, so pretty much the ruler of the colony. S302921 (talk) 10:00, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The colony is not an independent state, otherwise Laurie Greig would have to be added to the main list. Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 10:02, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

But that is a different case; Laurie Grieg's state has some autonomy of its own but isn't recognised as a UN member. The UN and nor any similar organization existed back then and the only person who 'ruled' the Philippines was the Spanish monarch, and it was overall the Governor-General who did the 'matters' for them, the page itself states the role was executive of the state. S302921 (talk) 10:11, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

However, the Spanish monarch did not bear the title of King of the Philippines. The British monarch bears the title of King of 15 states, Niue and the Cook Islands not among them. Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 10:13, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

"They were also the representative of the executive of the ruling power." is the description of the Governor-General of the Philippines, meaning that it was the technical ruler of the Philippines during its colonization by the Monarchy. The Queen of Spain, Isabella II (and likewise some of her predecessors) had no time to govern both the Kingdom and her colonies, hence why it was the Governor-General who did the duties of the Queen during the colonial period. I might agree the point about the Portugese ruler though since I am still not sure if he could meet the criteria of the top list, but I think the other ruler could, essentially think of his role as equivalent to the representative of the co-princes of Andorra. S302921 (talk) 21:35, 2 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I decided to go ahead with the ideal changes suggested on the talk page, if there are any questions feel free to ask ! S302921 (talk) 00:53, 3 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Part of a collective council of state. You can see why he doesn't count for the main list. ~2025-31652-74 (talk) 23:22, 4 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

He was historically on the previously deleted list for years, but I am not sure if his tenure would be a case similar to César Yanes Urías, or Anis Hassan Yahya, I'll wait for another editor to decide which case he belongs towards. S302921 (talk) 23:28, 4 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Who was maintaining the old list then for him to be on there for THAT long? ~2025-31652-74 (talk) 23:30, 4 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

My assumption was simply that he got overlooked, Gennaro Granito was also listed despite all leaders of the Holy See aside from Pope Benedict XVI were in the unclear status on the List of oldest living state leaders page until recently. S302921 (talk) 23:51, 4 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

can we use the official news sources or official government issued statements or official gazettes for the death sources of the state leader. ~2026-10218-5 (talk) 00:05, 6 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Sometimes you need to note that some governments don't keep their former leaders in charge, as most remain entirely obscure. For example, Babiker Awadalla, where he was thought to have died many times before he actually died. Edits'or (talk) 13:22, 6 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I know that but for those leaders who had been connected to their governments for a long time the state media or perhaps the international media could have immediate sources ~2026-11012-0 (talk) 02:30, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

If someone will revert the edit that I will make please read this Wikipedia article on Sources: WP:Biographies_of_living_persons#Avoid_misuse_of_primary_sources ~2026-18791-6 (talk) 09:19, 10 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

for Chinese state Leaders:

for South/North Korean state leaders: ex:

in Vietnamese: example:

for state leaders from the countries using Spanish naming customs ex:

~2026-10218-5 (talk) 08:38, 6 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

This list includes leaders of all countries. There's not gonna be time to evaluate which name is the factual result for a list of various people of all countries. Edits'or (talk) 13:14, 6 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

it is eventually because in sorting the names especially with respects to the naming customs of the countries these leaders use to to serve. ~2026-11012-0 (talk) 02:28, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Then what does List of oldest living state leaders do? Edits'or (talk) 03:41, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

they are actually doing the right thing example: prior to changing the source code this list sorts the name of Zhu Rongji as Zhu Rongji and after editing it it's now Zhu Rongji because in Chinese, Korean and even Vietnamese naming customs they do not typically use the first name of a person but their surname in sorting names ~2026-11012-0 (talk) 03:49, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I would like to somehow mention all the states in which she was queen without elevating one above the others, so I propose the following design:

Rank	Name	State	Position	Born	Died	Age	Citation
100	Elizabeth II	Commonwealth realms	Queen (1952–2022)	21 April 1926	8 September 2022	96 years, 140 days	[1]

Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 20:29, 6 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

It should be noted that through out the time when Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II was still alive and she was still on the list of oldest living state leaders only The UK not the Commonwealth was given as her state, because the Commonwealth is not a sovereign entry but it is actually an Organization like the UN ~2026-11012-0 (talk) 02:26, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - The Commonwealth Realms does not denote serious power considering it is a natural norm to the British monarch. Edits'or (talk) 03:43, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose - The Commonwealth is not a state but it is an Organization of the former and current States that The British Monarch currently is heading. ~2026-11012-0 (talk) 03:51, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I just think we should somehow mention all the countries she led. Or should we list each one separately? Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 06:36, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

we just put a note for every other state she led as head of state ~2026-11012-0 (talk) 07:18, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

It simply says "several other states." No number, no list of the states she ruled. Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 07:19, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I eventually do not know because back then when her name was still on the List of oldest living state leaders the editors did'nt included in the column of state, they only did is use The United Kingdom as she was more widely known as The Queen of the United Kingdom. ~2026-11012-0 (talk) 07:49, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Officially, all of these titles are equal, so it would be wrong not to mention the others. Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 07:53, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

It might be better if We'd just put the other countries on a drop down list ~2026-11012-0 (talk) 08:00, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Support - It appears to be ideal enough for the article until she is surpassed on the 5th March by Michael Jay Williams. S302921 (talk) 20:34, 6 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

• Oppose - She's most recognized as having been Queen of the United Kingdom. The very realm she resided in, died in & is burried. PS - Commonwealth realms is not a country. GoodDay (talk) 03:39, 9 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

  @GoodDay that was actually what I was referring to on my Previous comment that the Commonwealth of Nations is not a sovereign state but it is an Organization comprising Sovereign states that are formerly under the British Empire ~2026-15964-4 (talk) 05:31, 9 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

  Ok, then what about this?

Rank	Name	State	Position	Birth	Death	Age	Citation
100	Elizabeth II	Australia	Queen (1952–2022)	21 April 1926	8 September 2022	96 years, 140 days	[2]
		Canada	Queen (1952–2022)
		New Zealand	Queen (1952–2022)
		United Kingdom	Queen (1952–2022)
		Ceylon	Queen (1952–1972)
		Pakistan	Queen (1952–1956)
		South Africa	Queen (1952–1961)
		Ghana	Queen (1957–1960)
		Nigeria	Queen (1960–1963)
		Sierra Leone	Queen (1961–1971)
		Tanganyika	Queen (1961–1962)
		Jamaica	Queen (1962–2022)
		Trinidad and Tobago	Queen (1962–1976)
		Uganda	Queen (1962–1963)
		Kenya	Queen (1963–1964)
		Malawi	Queen (1964–1966)
		Malta	Queen (1964–1974)
		The Gambia	Queen (1965–1970)
		Guyana	Queen (1966–1970)[note 1]
		Barbados	Queen (1966–2021)
		Mauritius	Queen (1968–1992)
		Fiji	Queen (1970–1987)
		The Bahamas	Queen (1973–2022)
		Grenada	Queen (1974–2022)
		Papua New Guinea	Queen (1975–2022)
		Solomon Islands	Queen (1978–2022)
		Tuvalu	Queen (1978–2022)
		Saint Lucia	Queen (1979–2022)
		Saint Vincent and the Grenadines	Queen (1979–2022)
		Belize	Queen (1981–2022)
		Antigua and Barbuda	Queen (1981–2022)
		Saint Kitts and Nevis	Queen (1983–2022)

Андрій ЯЧ (talk) 15:26, 7 February 2026 (UTC) [reply]

Judging by what the List of longest-reigning monarchs page did, perhaps we can put them in a bullet list inside a Notetag, perhaps? Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 15:38, 7 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Can we also include the next 10 future state leaders to enter the main list ~2026-11012-0 (talk) 07:50, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

No, because it is redundant and unencyclopedic but I wouldn't mind keeping the next three (Michael Jay Williams, Gombojavyn Ochirbat and Alfred Moisiu) as hidden entries on the top section. S302921 (talk) 10:02, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

That might be a good idea ~2026-11012-0 (talk) 10:09, 7 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

These state leaders have same identical sources as other state leaders in the list.

No.	Name	State	Position	Birth	Death	Age	Citation
Joseph Paul-Boncour	France	Prime Minister (1932–1933)	4 August 1873	28 March 1972	98 years, 237 days	[1] this is the same source for Valdas Adamkus

The following individuals lived longer than #1–98 on this list, but their status as a state leader is unclear.^{[note 1]}

Name	State	Position	Birth	Death	Age	Citation
Artúr Görgei	Hungarian State	Governer-President (1849)	30 January 1818	21 May 1916	[2] this source is identical to Camille Huysman's

Please find another source for these state leaders before putting them back on the list? ~2026-15964-4 (talk) 00:43, 9 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Are there any reasons to remove the "Ayd" template? S302921 (talk) 14:04, 9 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Basically the ages of the deceased state leaders are static so why still use the 'ayd' Template, that could only be used primarily for those living state notable people (in this case they are state leaders.) ~2026-15964-4 (talk) 23:40, 9 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

The List of longest-reigning monarchs page does the same exact thing so I don't see why this page should be any different, so I am reverting your edits until further consensus arrives. S302921 (talk) 08:09, 10 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see why they wouldn't count for the top 100. Sikkim was an independent state prior to its annexation by India and it being a protectorate didn't limit the country's powers at all, only it's foreign affairs and diplomatic relations were controlled by the Indian Government, it was still independent in its own right. I don't see how the Governor-General of French Equatorial Africa is any different than the Governor-Generals of states such as Australia, minus his was an actual colony but thay alone shouldn't limit his inclusion since he wasn't even the leader of an administrative colony such as Cape Verde and Gabon, in my opinion they deserve to be moved from the Addendum to the top 100. ~2026-20110-7 (talk) 12:27, 10 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

It was a protectorate in it's later years. Edits'or (talk) 04:11, 12 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I frankly don't mind Kazi Lhendup Dorjee being moved to the top list though. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 22:52, 22 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

It appears that the Vatican state wasn't a member of the League of Nations during his tenure, perhaps modern day rulers such as Giovanni Battista Re would be in a different situation due to the country being an observer state. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 22:14, 29 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

If that's the case why is he still in the Main List of longest-living state leaders, so should he be excluded. ~2026-46608-5 (talk) 03:30, 31 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I'll wait a bit to see if anybody disgarees, but if there are no objections I will remove him. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 08:47, 31 January 2026 (UTC)[reply]

May I ask why it was ussumed that his birthday was 1 January 1912 but the article provided did not even mention that he born on that day but only 1912 (without any specific dates given), making his age between 99 years, 33 days and 100 years, 32 days @Pe Class Heroes010210 can you remove him in the main list. ~2026-73904-3 (talk) 02:51, 3 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

His birthdate being on that date is literally on his article itself, but Arabic Wikipedia too, so I am not sure what you meant by his birthdate not being on his article. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 08:12, 3 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Would readers also be interested in shortest leaderships specially for major countries? Thanks Yesterday, all my dreams... (talk) 11:24, 6 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Decided to recently publish a sandbox article called User:Pe Class Heroes010210/sandbox/List of longest-living state leaders (expanded) so people do not ask for the list's expansion, and feel free to edit it to change something if constructive. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 11:58, 7 February 2026 (UTC)[reply]

While this list is generally good, I simply can not understand why this list has colonial governors on this list. Colonies are not independent, that's the whole point of them being a colony. So how is it that they we're added on to this list anyway despite that fact. It's honestly kind of gross since it implies that colonies had a level of independent sovereignty when that's objectively wrong considering the fact that they're a colony.

As such, I am proposing the complete and immediate removal of Rafaél de Echagüe y Bermingham, Joseph-François Reste, Jules Ellenberger, Vicente Almeida d'Eça, and Louis Sanmarco from the list. Onegreatjoke (talk) 20:28, 16 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Cape Verde and Gabon briefly became autonomous and semi-independent states in 1975 and 1958 respectively but were not immediately recognised by the UN hence why they are in unclear status listing. Philippines is a quite unique situation as most Spanish colonies were classified to being tributary General Captaincy, meaning whilst being de facto independent and being the executive ruler, the Spanish monarch was the one who would appoint and oversee their governance, meaning it is relatively similar to the Hospitaller Malta, which is considered to be de facto independent under Giovanni Paolo Lascaris despite it being dominated by the Kongdom of Sicily for most of its governance. I think Ellenberger & Reste could perhaps be removed, but what do you think about Sikkim since it is a, to some extent, tad similar to European protectorates? Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 21:00, 16 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

may I remove them as no one had voice their disagreements since the last comment. ~2026-18253-07 (talk) 11:44, 24 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I was the one removed the colonial rulers except for the ones who featured somewhat autonomy either way Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 19:27, 24 March 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Milos Jakes and Habib Bourguiba should both be moved to the uncertain date of birth / death section of this page, as Milos Jakes' date of death is uncertain, potentially having been on July 9, 2020 rather than July 10, while Habib Bourguiba's year of birth is uncertain, having potentially been in 1901 or 1902 rather than 1903 Canthisusernamebechangedlater (talk) 14:51, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Milos Jakes is only by 1 day so his shouldn't be an issue, also similarly as Habib Bourguiba to My knowledge Federico Páez's birthdate is also rather inconsistent because I seen sources saying his birthdate's in 1876/1877 so clarification is useful. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 15:01, 18 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

actually you might be right about Federico Páez because that is actually on other wiki's, but for for Jakeš and Bourguiba they should still be discussed extensively. ~2026-23295-09 (talk) 11:29, 19 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there should be a consensus on if Habib Bourguiba (though most places seem to agree on birth likely being in 1903) & Frederico Páez should remain on the top list because of the inconsistencies, especially the latter. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 11:41, 19 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Maybe Miloš Jakeš, Habib Bourguiba and Federico Páez could be moved to the Uncertain DOB/death but we just need to put a notation ~2026-23295-09 (talk) 10:14, 20 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Miloš Jakeš should still stay since his ranking is not going to change, maybe Habib Bourguiba too since most of the Wikis likely agree on him born in 1903, I certainly give you consent to move Frederico Páez if you feel very confident ig? Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 12:02, 20 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

also Mr. Zolotas' Birth is uncertain in English, Estonian Indonesian wiki it is listed as 26 Apr 1904; in Arabic, Chinese, Italian, Danish, Dutch, French, Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, Polish, Russian and Ukrainian wikis it is 26 March 1904; May I alolso request that he'd be moverd to the addendum ~2026-23295-09 (talk) 13:44, 20 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

is it ok if he is transferred to the addendum? ~2026-24213-54 (talk) 15:30, 20 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I now in my publisher reinstalled Frederico Páez since there is three sources on his page to support to his birth being in 1877 (though I am unable to preview the second source), whereas in Xenophon Zolotas' case there is two sources on his biography to support his birth on the 26 April. Very much not. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 16:05, 20 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

In a similar case to Habib Bourguiba, something might need to be done regarding Nouhak Phoumsavanh, as while his page states that he was born in 1910 at the top, his biography also states that other sources say he was born in 1914.

Also I think Honduran president Juan Francisco de Molina should be added to this list, as his lifespan was 1779 - 1878, which would've made him 98 or 99 years old, qualifying him for this list. Obviously it would be under the lifespan uncertain section, but he should still be here, unless there is a good reason he is not, because I am almost certain that Honduras was a sovereign state in 1839 when he was president Canthisusernamebechangedlater (talk) 17:08, 24 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I might change the Laotian leader to unclear dob since there is conflicting sources stating his dob unlike Habib Bourguiba in whose reason most sources agree he is born in 1903. There is no source in Juan Francisco's page for his lifespan so he can only be included if any source is reasonbly found for him. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 17:30, 24 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

may I bring back the issue on Rafael de Echagüe y Bermingham because I just did a research about a week ago, and The Philippines during that time wasn't a fully sovereign state It would mean that Bermingham would not qualify as a state leader, because of the reason that it was a Former colony of Spain, and later Territory of the United States (1898-1946) and Japan (1941-45), I might suggest that he would be transferred to the unclear Status, and another this list only covers those born after 1800, Juan Francisco de Molina would not even qualify for the main list because he was born prior to 1800 not in 1800 or after. ~2026-24349-30 (talk) 03:26, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

It seems to have instead rather been a General Captaincy, meaning "Spanish captaincies general, on account of their independence and distance from the crown, became virtual viceroyalties, having a direct relationship with the king and the Council of the Indies, in Madrid.", unlike the governors of other colonies, the governor of the Philippines was referred to as 'Governor-General', unlike other colonies where the rulers simply referred to "colonial governors" even on their pages. The rule states since the 1800s not born since the 1800s meaning people who at least served in the 1800s can reasonably be included if there exists reliable sources. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 08:21, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

As It was still a Colony of the Spanish Empire he wouldn't quality on the main List, as the most customary thing is that the Governor-Generals of a fully sovereign state is actually different from a Colonolial Governor-General,

How about Phoumsavavhn, I thought you would transfer him to the Uncertain DOB @Pe Class Heroes010210 ~2026-24349-30 (talk) 08:29, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I think this should be discussed for at least a bit before any conclusions, de facto sovereign states still often get included in these lists, I'll try to research more on Nouhak Phoumsavanh & Rafaél de Echagüe y Bermingham. I think by next week I'll very confidently tell you if they should remain on there. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 08:34, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

@Pe Class Heroes010210 Kindy research Philippines History during the colonial era. If I'm not mistaken I actually tried to include Bermingham in the previous list but it was always removed from the main list ~2026-24349-30 (talk) 08:37, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Nope, I think you are mistaken with the list on oldests and lasts which still includes leaders of Taiwan though I am not able to create an editing account there and there is barley any active users there v. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 08:41, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Not that list, The original list on English Wikipedia. ~2026-24349-30 (talk) 08:55, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

how were you able to create a new account on Oldestsandlasts ~2026-24349-30 (talk) 08:56, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I literally said that I was not able to, there is no longer a sign in option on there, also by chance, do you know any place which archives the original LOLLSL page except for the Wayback Machine since it is useful but only has a few copies of it and the 2017–2018 is missing on there. I really think it would be useful if there is a way to view archives of the old talk page to see more entries which we could insert in the unclear status section. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 09:04, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I actually don't know, in those list before the only subarea in the addendum is the Uncertain DOB, and Sheikh Mukhtar Hussein, Hastings Banda, Hay Pei-tsun, Abdel Halim Muhammad, Artúr Gorgei, Dezső Pattantyús-Ábrahám, Lee Teng-hui, Gennaro Granito Pignatelli di Belmonte and Khertek Anchimaa-Toka are all in the list maybe it's good if just use the original listing ~2026-24349-30 (talk) 09:12, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Putting those people aside for now, is there anybody else in the main list you think should/might get moved to unclear status & possibly vice versa meaning people in the unclear section who should/might be suitable for the main list by chance? Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 09:30, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I think only those two Bermingham and Phoumsavavhn, Might also be Sabrah ~2026-24349-30 (talk) 09:38, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Pignatelli di Belmonte and Anchimaa-Toka (as she was recognized as the longest lived female head of state, maybe she would also be put in the Uncertain DOB) ~2026-24349-30 (talk) 09:41, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

League of Nations didn't recognise their states but perhaps comoaring it to the UN is not completely appropiate since it was not as global? Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 09:43, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Sabrah should remain on the list, he meets all of the criterias of a prime minister being included on this list, on the contrary is there anyone on the unclear status list you think should be on the main list though? Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 09:41, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Pignatelli, Gorgei, Pattantyús-Ábrahám and Anchimaa-Toka ~2026-24349-30 (talk) 09:44, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps Borys Matros too since he is only in unclear status since the League of Nations did not consider Ukraine independent yet. Gorgei's state was just a brief military government whose true influence in the region was very limited, if we move him to the main list the same should be done for Adnan al-Pachachi since his was a similar case but more recent. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 09:46, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I would definitely agree ~2026-24349-30 (talk) 09:50, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Nguyen Văn Xuân Might also quality ~2026-24349-30 (talk) 09:52, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I think this is like Kazi Lhendup Dorjee, since State of Vietnam claims Vietnam was in free association to France, which coincidentally enough is the same term used for Niue and TCI in comparison to New Zealand, though the former two seem to have been more independent than the latter two in comparison. That is why I chose not to count Nguyễn Văn Tâm for my User:Pe Class Heroes010210/sandbox/List of longest-living Asian state leaders since it implies that it was not very precisely fully independent. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 10:12, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

yup, so would those be people be included. ~2026-24349-30 (talk) 10:24, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Considering the people in the unclear status, the people who have the best basis to get moved to main list include Nguyễn Văn Xuân, Kazi Lhendup Dorjee, Khertek Anchimaa-Toka, Gennaro Granito, Adnan al-Pachachi (the UN still recognised the 2004 Iraqi government), Dezső Pattantyús-Ábrahám & Borys Martos I think. I think I might soon open up a new post comment here on if any of these people should be on the main list for later. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 10:36, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Okay ~2026-24349-30 (talk) 10:42, 25 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

I now did some research and just now going to publishing the edits. Most sources seem to agree Nouhak Phoumsavanh was born in 1914 so I reflected this on his page, the 98 years might've been a translation error. In Rafaél de Echagüe y Bermingham's right, the Philippines colony seems to have some levels of autonomy so maybe it would've been in unclear status but I found numerous sources claiming his lifespans to be 72 years, including a contemporary source so the 100 years by the university might've been an error so feel free to reflect this information on his page using these sources for referencing because I am very much somewhat busy currently [7] [8] [9]. I per the reasoning above going to put Adnan al-Pachachi on the top list, might later start a seperate discussion on thr List of oldest living state leaders page for Mohsen Abdel Halim since he is not yet old for inclusion but soon will be for the unclear dob list at least. The rest of those can get decided later if is appropriate to compare League of Nations to the UN or if semi-independent states count. Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 17:27, 26 April 2026 (UTC)[reply]

Following the recent addition of Abdul Aziz Umar of Brunei in the unclear status of List of oldest living state leaders, should this person be inserted in the unclear status section for this page? Though Belize did not become fully independent until 1981, it apparently was given "self-governing colony" status at the end of 1963, meaning it had significant autonomy from thereafter. So should he be included in the listing? Pe Class Heroes010210 (talk) 10:51, 9 May 2026 (UTC)[reply]
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