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[–]H0oman 35 points36 points  (4 children)

Its been awhile since I played quickplay/casual since I've been a community server trash since MYM. But I heard map bloat is also a problem since it splits/thins out the players across 100+ maps?

[–]IgnisHeros 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Map bloat is indeed a problem. I don't believe there's any grey area regarding that topic. On commentary, the TF2 devs said that having a large number of maps doesn't contribute in any shape or form.

And, Casual mode showcases it as well. The most played maps when you boot up Casual are classic maps (Not all of them, because maps like Pipeline or Nightfall have been rendered to obscurity) and few notable exceptions like Swiftwater and Pier (Which, are also old and yet very popular community made maps, that were added years after their inception). Also, Casual displays all the 100+ we have, making bloat hard to ignore.

So, what you get, is a couple of situations that, given their relationship, demonstrate there's something to fix when it comes to modern Team Fortress 2. Both make things harder for the people who want to get into this game and are necessary new blood for it to last more than the immediate future.

How can someone expect a newcomer to be comfortable if the rounds last 3 minutes due to constant stomps and the maps available are in the triple digits? And that's just the base. It gets worse when we go deeper inside, outside of Casual and the map bloat, and focus on configs and accesibility.

[–]Clean-Ant6404 20 points21 points  (0 children)

Yes, but the thing is that the actual map pool is skewed to a certain group of maps that casual allows for more playable time.

The bloat is not the main problem here but the actual matchmaking system.

[–]SoldierZX_StarFox 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yes, this is a large portion of the problem. Almost every old game in existence with similar divisions by game mode/maps will always converge to a small subset as the game ages and the playerbase diminishes. TF2 is not unique in this sense. Go on CoD AW and tell me you’ll find a game of Uplink. You won’t. TF2 is well beyond this point, and any attempt to gain traction beyond the core map set is futile as there isn’t the player traffic to support every map running at a given time. Culling the map pool or having a featured set of mixed modes default selected are the most practically applicable methods to getting traffic to alternate modes (beyond just having them selected by default).

[–]Pyronimrag_is_coming 1 point2 points  (0 children)

you're making the fatal mistake of assuming TF2 players play anything other than badwater and upward

[–]Spyrandomyokaiwatchfan 45 points46 points  (22 children)

30 minutes????? what are you queuing for?????

[–]SpyVerdiiSykes 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yeah actually lmao

[–]EnvironmentalBoss129[S] -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

Nightfall and Pipeline

[–]Demomanoh_mygawdd 14 points15 points  (3 children)

>queues for two of the least popular maps in the map pool and is surprised that it takes a long ass time to find a match

[–]ChargedBonsai98 6 points7 points  (0 children)

Only because they're forced down to the "alternative gamemodes"

Before casual, you can find footage of people finding games in less than 10 seconds

[–]Spyrandomyokaiwatchfan 8 points9 points  (1 child)

ngl i dont think quickplay would help much you still end up with nobody else there

[–]PyroDualiuss 5 points6 points  (0 children)

absolutely not. there were always places to go if you wanted pipeline games, just click Show Servers and pick a pipeline game out of the list. i know this for SURE because, i always liked to play the shittiest gamemode that nobody likes, mannpower, and no matter what i was always able to find a server with at least a couple players in it, in my country. if i could find players for an ACTUALLY awful gamemode, you can bet your ass that there were definitely games for pipeline.

[–]DefiantPossession188 4 points5 points  (0 children)

i play on community servers a lot and, spoiler alert, they tend to choose fun maps or maps that are well known.

and thats exactly how it was back in the day, too. people played upward, hightower, and harvest. i really dont like this revisionism where people think quickplay made EVERY map constantly played at the same rate all the time

[–]stringstringing 1 point2 points  (0 children)

What makes you think the maps being unpopular would change with the matchmaking system? If we went back to all server browser days you’d never win a map vote to play the map. It seems to happen in every game, as time goes on the maps people are interested in playing actually shrinks rather than broadens. I don’t get it but for some reason is always seems to happen. I remember the early days of counter strike you could find servers running all kinds of unique and niche maps, it wasn’t always just all dust2. Counter strike 1.6 today is dominated by 24/7 dust2 pubs.

[–]PyroOleksiy_ 28 points29 points  (3 children)

You WILL play Upward, Badwater, 2Fort, and Dustbowl! You WILL enjoy playing Upward, Badwater, 2Fort, and Dustbowl! You WILL NOT want to play other maps!

[–]Pyror-alexd 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Aquarius is pretty good.

[–]Rusted_muramasa 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Aquarius is sex. But at the same time, we also get maps like... Sulfur.

shudder

[–]JamesAtomicCherry 14 points15 points  (0 children)

imagine getting into a koth game and you hear ONE games ends and some big ass doors slam on your face

[–]milk7way 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Honestly, I do hope that people will turn around to the idea to swap from the system we are currently under and try to either properly address the issues plaguing casual matchmaking or go through the path of least resistance and swap over to quickplay because those issues will be even worse the more that the game will bleed out of players, all the waiting times are caused by the fact that players are already spread out too thin across the entire game where most of the games happen on the meta maps while the illusion of choice is just an illusion and you will either wait indefinitely for the map you want to play or get funnelled to the same few maps majority of gamers play.

[–]Nazboi6442 9 points10 points  (3 children)

Sorry but my favourite TF2tuber said bringing back Quickplay is actually a secret plot to kill every single transgender TF2 player, spearheaded by Zesty "41 to 100" Jesus or something. We should improve Casual instead as it is actually wholesome with the awesome party system and a 150+ map pool. I think we should remove random crits and add class limits :)

Also Valve is doing an awesome job with TF2 with the updates filled with awesome Emporium-made and carefully Valve-vetted workshop maps and media reference cosmetics, we need to encourage this good behaviour by buying keys for the 40+ gigabyte game from 2007!

[–]DefiantPossession188 -3 points-2 points  (2 children)

>brings up transgenders for no reason

>look inside profile

>r/kotakuinaction

[–]Nazboi6442 5 points6 points  (1 child)

brings up transgenders for no reason

The reason why TF2 fans shun Zesty was because of that one clip of him sighing at "Tran. S. Wright".

Also have you considered that the fact despite browsing a controversial subreddit, that I might not actually agree with their opinions?

[–]DefiantPossession188 0 points1 point  (0 children)

OP didnt bring up youtubers or transphobia though? why else would you bring up zesty (who admittedly i dont watch at all) and their controversies?

i know theres some videos theyve made on quickplay, but again the main argument wasnt centered around that at all. it seems like a strange pot shot to make instead of just saying you prefer qp over casual

[–]Kimmynius 27 points28 points  (15 children)

Good luck on this subreddit. Feels like 90% of the current playerbase has a Stockholm syndrome.

[–]SandvichMetroidman97 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Stockholm syndrome and contrarianism. I have yet to see a compelling argument against Quickplay, it's just people telling others to not want Quickplay back.

[–]JadedCauliflower6105 4 points5 points  (8 children)

I think you are overestimating how much people genuinely care about this issue

[–]Nazboi6442 3 points4 points  (7 children)

Spoken like Thing Fan #1. "How dare you demand better service for a live monetised video game!"

[–]JadedCauliflower6105 -2 points-1 points  (6 children)

I do think TF2 should get better support from Valve, but I don’t think Quickplay is the right move. I’d rather they just fix Matchmaking.

[–]Syns0 4 points5 points  (2 children)

We say “bring back quickplay” because we know how lazy Valve is.
Instead of telling them to do a completely new system, it’s easier for them to bring back one that used to work way better than the current one.
It wasn’t perfect, it has room for improvement, but man it would make things so much better

[–]JadedCauliflower6105 0 points1 point  (1 child)

This argument is not wrong. Valve hasn’t updated this game in years and this is the most realistic reason to go back rather than fix matchmaking. That being said, like I said in a different comment, matchmaking is a good base to build from and I don’t think it should be abandoned over what essentially amounts to quality of life issues.

[–]Syns0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

The problem is, matchmaking already works poorly on every other competitive game that was DESIGNED for it.
If you bring that to a game like TF2, it’s chaos. You can’t keep a consistent MMR for a player that plays demoman in dustbowl and the game after plays Trolldier on Hightower.

If you really, REALLY want it, then leave it for a separate competitive mode, one that it’s not a pile of dogshit like the one we already have.
But leave casual for casual players.
Casual does not need matchmaking, 12v12 wasn’t designed for it.

[–]Nazboi6442 1 point2 points  (2 children)

And fixing matchmaking would ultimately just create Quickplay-lite. Map votes? Team scrambles? Ad hoc? Already part of Quickplay.

[–]JadedCauliflower6105 0 points1 point  (1 child)

There is no reason features like that couldn’t just be integrated into our current system. I think matchmaking is a good base to build from and we shouldn’t just ditch it over some quality of life issues.

[–]Nazboi6442 1 point2 points  (0 children)

If you can ad hoc into a matchmaking game from a server browser then WHAT IS THE FUCKING POINT OF MATCH"MAKING"?

I think you don't understand how Valve servers worked back then. You had a big list of servers, that ran maps on 45 minute timers, where you can drop in and out at any time amd play as many rounds as you want. When the server timer (aka game) ended, you could vote for a different map or join a different server quickly if the map wasn't to your liking. Before you bring it up, Quickplay just selected the best fitting server out of this list and put you into it.

Casual destroyed that. Instead of dropping into a game, you had to WAIT for an algorithm to make a game with 23 other players. The matches were massively shortened to accommodate what was basically a competitive-lite experience. This meant instead of playing, you just sat there hoping those stupid fucking metal doors wouldn't slam on your face. Of course short matches and not being able to stick with your preferred map meant requeueing and waiting again.

This system was the reason why Valve servers were unplayable during the bot crisis. Instead of just quickly leaving the server that had bots and joining a new one from the server browser, you had to REQUEUE. Add in the retarded party system and Valve managed to hollow out the most fun you could have online into a mere mockery of itself.

[–]MedicsFridge 0 points1 point  (0 children)

"good luck on this subreddit" the take in the post (bringing back quickplay) is a pretty common take in this subreddit

[–]SoldierTVTropehead -4 points-3 points  (3 children)

Purge would fix that

[–]Pyror-alexd 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Killing people is a bad thing, I think.

[–]MedicBarackulus12 3 points4 points  (1 child)

🤓

[–]Pyror-alexd 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Indeed.

[–]ScoutMechaMike98 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Most of the problems the game has would be solved with this.

[–]33DDD 11 points12 points  (0 children)

I agree with everything said here, enough of casual mode, it ruined the game for me and i really want it gone for good.

Bring back quickplay!

For the sake of this game's longevity and fun!

[–]MasterYargle 6 points7 points  (12 children)

Bro I fucking hated quickplay. It would queue you for like, five minutes, and decide to put you into an empty badlands lobby. I remember servers would add these fake players just to trick the quickplay system. I think I gave up at some point and would search for valve servers

[–]SandvichMetroidman97 18 points19 points  (1 child)

Quickplay had the option to only search for Valve servers. The issue you have with it was fixed by the time it was removed.

[–]SoldierTheSpytf2_real 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Shh, don't reason with contrarians, it is far too complex for them

[–]IgnisHeros 4 points5 points  (0 children)

The ad-hoc connections were part of the Quickplay ruleset, the ones that allowed you to search for Valve servers. There were empty lobbies, there were some awful community servers, but those were not the rule.

Obviously Quickplay wasn't perfect (Although it was getting refined over time, even in 2016). If people ask for the removal of Casual it's because of all the shortcomings and limitations (Like being unable to choose teams or the lack of team scrambles).

[–]Heavycris8215 6 points7 points  (7 children)

Shhh your not allowed to be negative towards QuickPlay or the mob will get you

[–]ChargedBonsai98 4 points5 points  (0 children)

You can criticize quickplay, it absolutely wasn't perfect

But you also have to be willing to accept valid criticisms of casual as well

[–]Syns0 2 points3 points  (4 children)

I mean, if you omitt that that problem was fixed in 2014, people are gonna correct you lol

[–]Heavycris8215 -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Why do people always say like it was a small thing like oops sorry for putting ya in server full of bots or crappy community servers sure doesn't sound small problem right?

[–]Syns0 2 points3 points  (2 children)

No one denies it, but it wasn’t the norm by 2014-2015, when you could choose to queue only for valve servers and there was a reputation system for community servers (and only for community servers)

[–]Heavycris8215 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

I'm not saying there denying it but that the downplay this problem that was real but they never understand since most people weren't there at the time

[–]Syns0 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I don’t think it’s totally fair to say that. Most people weren’t there yeah, but quickplay was just an automated server browser.

Anyone that experienced the games on community servers or hell, even TF2C, will understand how more enjoyable games are there compared to casual mode.

That’s why they are attracted to the idea of quickplay, because it can give them exactly that, but with an automatic search.

The problem with the current server browser is that is old as hell and there are very few servers that run vanilla rules, and most of them only get populated in the evening.

So if you tell them that they could have thousands of them at every hour of the day, hosted by valve, then oh boy, they get immediately sold on that.

Not to mention how quickplay was optional, you could also just join a valve server manually.

[–]Spyrandomyokaiwatchfan 1 point2 points  (0 children)

its too late for him now. fly high master yargle o7

[–]Clean-Ant6404 2 points3 points  (0 children)

But that's the thing, you could search for Valve servers and be able to connect to them almost immediately and to whatever map you wanted.

The predatory community servers aren't what people want back.

[–]ScoutQmVu 1 point2 points  (0 children)

“Yeah it takes me less than 10 seconds to find a match”

Also this is overdone content 🤓 you are not allowed to discuss this 🤓 you are not allowed to discuss about the current status of the matchmaking 🤓

[–]yankydudel_7 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Reset the clock folks:

[ 0 ] Days Without Quickplay Discourse on r/tf2

[–]Excellent-Cloud-5046 -1 points0 points  (13 children)

Whenever you queue for unpopular maps, it’s not a surprise that it takes 30 mins to find a match. I find a match in under 10 seconds 99% of the time.

[–]MattForDev 8 points9 points  (10 children)

Didn't happen with quick play you could chose exactly what map you wanted without waiting at all.

Stop blaming people for wanting to play obscure maps.

[–]33DDD 12 points13 points  (1 child)

People say casual has the hability for selecting individual maps as a bonus but when u chose anything on alternative gamemodes you will get infinite queue times. If you wanted plr on quickplay/vanilla rule set, it was just a mapvote away inside a server with said map in its rotation.

[–]MattForDev 7 points8 points  (0 children)

That one guy waiting for over 100 days for plr_pipeline on YouTube.

[–]The Administrator_NotMitetechno_ 0 points1 point  (7 children)

When I queued for asteroid back in the day half the time it would either take ages or put you in an empty map lol

[–]MattForDev 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I actually frequented rd asteroid and found full servers most of the time because I searched manually (which is not possible now)

[–]The Administrator_NotMitetechno_ -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

Often times you had to get in early because either the servers were all full or they didn't have enough players for a feasible game.

[–]MattForDev 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Which is why the "join as soon as slot is available" feature existed, and while yes, it might have taken like 10 or so minutes, at least you could SEE the game was there and you KNEW you weren't stuck in queue limbo.

[–]DemomanTomas66_087542w 0 points1 point  (3 children)

This sounds completely impossible since you can que for infinite amount of servers with the server browser. And you never refreshed it from what i can gage.

[–]The Administrator_NotMitetechno_ 0 points1 point  (2 children)

There were about 4 valve servers for asteroid

[–]DemomanTomas66_087542w 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Yeah obviously they existed. And you could have just qued for all of them in event that they where full. Or refreshed the server browser. Full 24 player servers don't just instantly depopulate.

[–]The Administrator_NotMitetechno_ 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I mean, someone is saying "Didn't happen with quick play you could chose exactly what map you wanted without waiting at all.". Asteroid was generally unpopular and just like with casual, it was harder to find matches. You can't get blood from a stone. Full 24 player servers generally aren't losing players when there are few servers because players know it's going to be hard to get back in.

This isn't a quickplay or casual issue, it's because the weird/janky gamemodes are placed in an area in the UI where players are generally not going to click. Most players did not click on the wacky weird beta map or whatever it was called bit of quickplay. It's not so much of a system issue.

[–]SoldierTheSpytf2_real 2 points3 points  (0 children)

So 99% of the game is unpopular? Guess we should stop adding new maps then

[–]Syns0 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah, now find a payload race game in under 10 seconds.
And no Hightower, people there don’t play payload race, they just fuck around

[–]SoldierKumiiTheFranceball -4 points-3 points  (1 child)

Jarvis, I'm low on karma. Make a 459th post about something that is dead forever.

[–]Syns0 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Stop complaining about the bots, valve is not gonna remove them

Stop asking for new MvM content, valve is never gonna add it

Stop asking for Comic 7, it’s not happening

Stop asking for Free to plays to be unmuted, valve will never do it

[–]DefiantPossession188 -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

i feel like you should have to show off your ingame tf2 badge to argue for quickplay

if you have a badge/account older than like, 2015, youre allowed to argue for quickplay. if not, you did not engage with it enough to know it wasnt much better than casual mode. 90% of issues would not be fixed

[–]ChargedBonsai98 3 points4 points  (1 child)

I started in 2023, but immediately I felt that something was off with how the game was structured.

Once I had someone explain to me at length what went wrong, I can't look at casual favorably anymore

[–]ScoutAccording-Treat6588 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I am the same way too

[–]Jasmine Teashibbyfoo -4 points-3 points  (3 children)

If you waited 30 minutes, nobody was playing the map(s) for which you queued. Quickplay would not solve this.

[–]DemomanTomas66_087542w 0 points1 point  (2 children)

TLDR:You just described what the party system does.

In Quickplay ad-hoc is olways a option in event of server depopulation. If lot of players left you can always share the server ip or ivaite friend to the server becoce there is no party system that would prevent people from joining.

And in the worst case scenario of everybody leving ad-hocking to different server is faster and more reaeble then requing in casual because you know the server population before you join the server.

[–]Jasmine Teashibbyfoo -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

So you think it's better because you can join empty servers by yourself and hope people will join, got it. I wonder if there is any way to do this with an empty vanilla community server.

[–]DemomanTomas66_087542w 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Who seas that the servers are empty. You do realise that there is option in the server browser that filters out empty servers.

[–]GrumpyOldMan59 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I've never waited more than two minutes. What are you on about?