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all 55 comments

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[–]afnan_iman 161 points162 points  (18 children)

Radical centrists orgasm to this pic

[–]ThreeButtonBob 35 points36 points  (1 child)

Damn centrists, can't they just pick a side and blame the other like normal people? smh

[–]Haunting_Berry7971 10 points11 points  (0 children)

You can’t be neutral on a moving train

[–]Rift3N 8 points9 points  (13 children)

People on social media when you don't want to pick your favorite radical ethnonationalist group to worship and clean of all blame in a century-long conflict where both sides want to cleanse the land that God says belongs to them and drink from the skulls of their enemies' children:

[–]chinggis_khan27 -5 points-4 points  (12 children)

It's not actually true that both sides want to cleanse the land; that is a zionist project and neither Fatah nor Hamas has an equivalent goal. It is also not true that both are motivated by religion in the same way; the idea that 'Eretz Isroel' was given to them by God is a Jewish concept without a Muslim (or Christian) equivalent, and the specifically religious motivation on the Palestinian side is protecting Al-Aqsa mosque (the Dome on the Rock).

Acting like 'both sides' are the same is just ignoring the reality and is the problem with the propaganda posted. In reality, the conflict is completely asymmetric; even in 2000, an honest portrayal should have had 10 Palestinians lying dead there next to the one Israeli.

[–]UpbeatFix7299 9 points10 points  (1 child)

Yes, it has been asymmetric for decades. Ever since the Arab states got the shit kicked out of them and totally abandoned doing anything to help the Palestinians beyond issuing press releas.

Does this mean that the Hamas suicide bombings were productive? People who talk about this like it's a sporting event where you have to blindly support your team rather than trying to deal with reality are annoying.

[–]chinggis_khan27 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Of course I don't think Hamas suicide bombings were good. But supporting the Palestinian cause is not like blindly supporting a sports team. Was opposing American Jim Crow like supporting a sports team? Was opposing apartheid in South Africa? Were there two equal sides who both share blame? Palestinians are people facing horrific injustice, inflicted on them by people who began stealing their land more than 100 years ago, have never stopped and have never allowed them to return.

[–]Zkang123 9 points10 points  (5 children)

Hamas charter has an outright goal of killing all the Jews

[–]chinggis_khan27 5 points6 points  (2 children)

First of all, you're talking about their original 1988 charter, not their 2017 charter which removed antisemitic language. The original charter has antisemitic language, but it categorically does not have an explicit 'goal of killing all the Jews'. This is the 'goal' with regards to Jews (Article 31, p131 of the linked translation) :

The Islamic Resistance Movement is a humanistic movement that takes care of human rights and follows the tolerance of Islam with respect to people of other faiths. Never does it attack any of them except those who show enmity toward it or stand in its path to stop the movement or waste its efforts.

In the shadow of Islam it is possible for the followers of the three religions - Islam, Christianity, and Judaism - to live in peace and harmony, and this peace and harmony is possible only under Islam: The history of the past and present is the best written witness for that.

That's not to say there is no antisemitic language in the 1988 charter, but the basis for calling it genocidal is extremely flimsy. It is this weird hadith (it's on p.3 of the pdf):

The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

First of all, this is not an exhortation to do anything; it is a quote from scripture used to support the declaration that they'll never give up even if they have to fight until the end of days.

Secondly, even if it was an exhortation, it's not anymore genocidal than it would be for a Ukrainian soldier to say they want to kill Russians. Would you assume they wanted to murder every Russian baby, or that they wanted to kill invading soldiers?

The reason it is natural for us to interpret this as genocidal is that for us, generalized, vague language targetting a minority ethnic group like Jewish or Black people is taboo, so we assume if they meant justified (e.g military) targets, that they would say so. But Jews in Palestine are not a minority and neither does Islamic culture have this taboo; in fact, it usually goes the other way; the Qur'an will refer to 'the Jews' or 'the Christians' when the text refers to a specific tribe.

[–]RanebowVeins -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Yeah im sure they’re telling the truth now and had a change of heart in 2017 by removing the β€œcurse upon the Jews” from the charter… are we serious here? It explicitly says β€œpeace is only possible under Islam”, aka domination of religious minorities and Jizya tax. Hamas does not have good intentions for Jews and Christians, and Israel does not have good intentions for Palestinians. Let’s be honest here.

[–]chinggis_khan27 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Hamas is a religious conservative movement and I'm not trying to justify all their aims. The comment I'm replying to claims their charter is genocidal and that's what I am disputing. I of course don't want to live 'in the shadow of Islam' since I believe in secular government and am not a Muslim, but compared to the way Israel treats Palestinians, it's night and day. Palestinian Christians are threatened by Jewish settlers, not Hamas.

[–]theirishpotato1898 3 points4 points  (0 children)

And they were elected with the help of the Israeli government.

Let’s have a look at the PLO charter of 1964 that was in effect until the Oslo accords of 1993;

Article 6; β€œThe Jews who had normally resided in Palestine until the beginning of the Zionist invasion will be considered Palestinians.”

Article 12; β€œThe Palestinian people believe in Arab unity. In order to contribute their share toward the attainment of that objective, however, they must, at the present stage of their struggle, safeguard their Palestinian identity and develop their consciousness of that identity, and oppose any plan that may dissolve or impair it.”

Article 19; β€œThe partition of Palestine in 1947 and the establishment of the state of Israel are entirely illegal, regardless of the passage of time, because they were contrary to the will of the Palestinian people and to their natural right in their homeland, and inconsistent with the principles embodied in the Charter of the United Nations; particularly the right to self-determination”

Article 20; β€œThe Balfour Declaration, the Mandate for Palestine, and everything that has been based upon them, are deemed null and void. Claims of historical or religious ties of Jews with Palestine are incompatible with the facts of history and the true conception of what constitutes statehood. Judaism, being a religion, is not an independent nationality. Nor do Jews constitute a single nation with an identity of its own; they are citizens of the states to which they belong.”

Article 22; β€œZionism is a political movement organically associated with international imperialism and antagonistic to all action for liberation and to progressive movements in the world. It is racist and fanatic in its nature, aggressive, expansionist, and colonial in its aims, and fascist in its methods. Israel is the instrument of the Zionist movement, and geographical base for world imperialism placed strategically in the midst of the Arab homeland to combat the hopes of the Arab nation for liberation, unity, and progress. Israel is a constant source of threat vis-a-vis peace in the Middle East and the whole world. Since the liberation of Palestine will destroy the Zionist and imperialist presence and will contribute to the establishment of peace in the Middle East, the Palestinian people look for the support of all the progressive and peaceful forces and urge them all, irrespective of their affiliations and beliefs, to offer the Palestinian people all aid and support in their just struggle for the liberation of their homeland.”

Article 23; β€œThe demand of security and peace, as well as the demand of right and justice, require all states to consider Zionism an illegitimate movement, to outlaw its existence, and to ban its operations, in order that friendly relations among peoples may be preserved, and the loyalty of citizens to their respective homelands safeguarded”

Article 24; β€œThe Palestinian people believe in the principles of justice, freedom, sovereignty, self-determination, human dignity, and in the right of all peoples to exercise them.”

Article 25; β€œFor the realization of the goals of this Charter and its principles, the Palestine Liberation Organization will perform its role in the liberation of Palestine in accordance with the Constitution of this Organization.”

Article 26; β€œThe Palestine Liberation Organization, representative of the Palestinian revolutionary forces, is responsible for the Palestinian Arab people's movement in its struggle - to retrieve its homeland, liberate and return to it and exercise the right to self-determination in it - in all military, political, and financial fields and also for whatever may be required by the Palestine case on the inter-Arab and international levels.”

And

Article 29; β€œThe Palestinian people possess the fundamental and genuine legal right to liberate and retrieve their homeland. The Palestinian people determine their attitude toward all states and forces on the basis of the stands they adopt vis-a-vis to the Palestinian revolution to fulfill the aims of the Palestinian people”

The course of Palestinian liberation has never been founded on the basis of Antisemitism, but rather an Anti-Zionist stance for the basis of Zionism was colonial, Zionism was founded by Atheist ethnic Jews with a distaste for the Jewish religion, whom chose the land not based off any religious belief or ideological point, but because it was the least expensive of the options they felt they had.

[–]Jak12523 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Me when I lie

[–]Nakhtal 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Have you ever heard of HAmas?

[–]Rift3N -2 points-1 points  (2 children)

I think you are making the very common mistake of confusing lack of capability for lack of intent on the Palestinian side.

[–]chinggis_khan27 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

I am doing no such thing.

[–]StaticBeat -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

How centrists mfs feel replying "you're playing the game" to valid criticism: πŸ”₯✍️😏

[–]Nakhtal -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

There is no such thing as radical centrism.

[–]zig_zag-wanderer 89 points90 points  (17 children)

There should be about 6 times as many Palestinians

[–]TheHistoryMaster2520 28 points29 points  (4 children)

And Israelis are hardly a corpse

[–]drsyesta 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Keep in mind its propaganda lol

[–]Gaucelm 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Playing the game right here.

[–]uvero -5 points-4 points  (1 child)

Hmm, people from one side are, for you, less than people... There's a word for that, tip of my tongue

[–]theirishpotato1898 3 points4 points  (0 children)

You wilfully misinterpret that comment. The intent is that Israeli’s in comparison to Palestinians and Arab peoples in the Levant make up a tiny minority of the deaths while causing the majority of them.

[–]Zkang123 7 points8 points  (1 child)

Israel has the Iron Dome that shields them from many attacks

[–]chinggis_khan27 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Not in 2000.

[–]Gaucelm 5 points6 points  (0 children)

So it’s only the number that is the issue with you?

[–]itspronouncedbolonya -1 points0 points  (0 children)

1 men defending his home is worth 20 mercenaries

[–]GeorgeEBHastings 7 points8 points  (2 children)

Idk who wants peace less, the Israeli government, Palestinian governments, or the fucking psychopaths in these comments. 

Y'all are who this comic is about. 

[–]PanDrw 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Of course, it is the Israeli government - look at what the finance minister in Israel had to say in 2025
https://www.timesofisrael.com/smotrich-says-gaza-to-be-totally-destroyed-population-concentrated-in-small-area/

[–]Haunting_Berry7971 1 point2 points  (0 children)

A man takes your home, beats you and your family, kills your dog and your cousin, refuses to give anything back or make amends, and then asks you for peace.

Do you accept?

[–]UpbeatFix7299 8 points9 points  (3 children)

Hamas and the Israeli right sabotaged the slim chance or a workable two state solution for their own selfish reasons. Suicide bombings by Hamas back in the 90 and 00s were a terrible idea.

[–]LuciusWrath 19 points20 points  (0 children)

Ehud Barak left South Lebanon and Sharon left Gaza. Both cases ended with the exact same result. I'd love to be this optimistic but the current consensus along the entire political spectrum seems to be that a two-state solution is simply not feasible, and won't be for a long time.

[–]theirishpotato1898 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Israel invaded and fought its neighbours over and over again, disregarding any peace treaties made with them since its founding.

The conflict between Zionism and the Palestinian did not begin in the 90’s

[–]UpbeatFix7299 3 points4 points  (0 children)

No shit it didn't start then. The Arab states tried to band together in 67 and 73 to crush the Israelis when they thought they had the power differential to their advantage. They got absolutely stomped and stopped doing anything but pretending to give a fuck about the Palestinians after that.

[–]chairmanrob -1 points0 points  (5 children)

This implies that this is an even sided issue. It’s not. Israel is the Goliath that Palestinians must slay.

[–]uvero -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Oh look so many people playing this game in the comment (and also deliberating whether all people are equal), cool. That will help move us closer to a solution.

[–]memegod2077 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Is that fucking hormer simpson?