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[–]Traditional_Car4303 32 points33 points  (7 children)

I totally agree. Takumi definitely has a severe Madonna-whore complex. At the end of the day he objectifies Reira just as much as Hachi or the other women he involves himself with, but it’s Reira who gets the pedestal. Tbh I think he loves Reira as a concept and any further exploration of that feeling would ruin the illusion he created

[–]Mutive 17 points18 points  (0 children)

That was always my take. Takumi has a severe Madonna-whore complex, in which virtually *all* women are whores. (And his involvement with them only makes them worse in his eyes. Any woman vile enough to sleep with him truly is despicable.)

Reira is the one exception. Which is why the idea of sleeping with her is so abhorrent. She is the perfect being who is pure and untainted.

Reira, of course, hates this. Which is part of why she flings herself at Yasu then, later, hires a male prostitute.

[–]candxbaetakumi's prison therapist 18 points19 points  (2 children)

But I don’t think that’s what OP is arguing for? He loves her in a romantic way. Why is this fandom so obsessed with characters loving only the idea of someone? Nobu only loves the idea of Hachi, Hachi only loves the idea of Nana, Takumi only loves the idea of Reira… What does that even mean? Sure, he idealizes her a bit, but isn’t idealization a natural part of falling in love? Btw Takumi literally sleeps with women who look like Reira, blushes when she kisses him (yes! Takumi! blushes!), gets jealous when she starts going out with Yasu and then Shin. For fuck’s sake, he even imagines having sex with her in his backstory. It’s safe to say he desires her in a physical way too.

[–]Traditional_Car4303 5 points6 points  (1 child)

It’s just my take. I am not saying that he doesn’t love her at all. It’s just my opinion that he loves the idea of Reira so much that he totally dismisses the possibility of being with her, all for the sake of preserving her sanctity in his eyes. Idealization is part of love, yes- but it is my opinion that love evolves with time. If idealization persists, to me, that is just infatuation. Anyway, my point was that two things can exist at the same time. Especially when we’re trying to dig into the nuance of these characters. I by no means am negating OP’s point

[–]candxbaetakumi's prison therapist 3 points4 points  (0 children)

He dismisses the possibility of being with her because he has absolutely 0 emotional intelligence, is a narcissist, can’t accept that he could be in love with her, and at his core thinks he doesn’t deserve her. It’s not all for the sake of preserving her sanctity… Yes, two things can coexist, but you sound like you don’t think that’s the case here. Like he doesn’t “really” love her in a romantic sense, just because he idealizes her. Don’t know, let’s just agree to disagree.

[–]Taeng9Sica🪐✨🍓[S] 11 points12 points  (2 children)

Reira did say that the version Takumi wants to be with is who she was as a child and that's simply not her anymore. I also believe that he doesn't see her completely as a person. He sees her as an angel and the singing princess. I think, because her singing and presence was such a bright light in his childhood, that he doesn't want to see her as a regular person. Like you said, it would ruin the illusion

[–]Traditional_Car4303 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Yes! It’s like the love he has for her is very complex and deep rooted, but somehow still incredibly shallow. He’s such an interesting character.

I always felt that his need to put Reira on a pedestal was a coping skill and was blocking him from exploring his genuine romantic feelings for her. Like when you said that Takumi told Hachi that work is number one, and Reira is his work. Keeping her in his sphere without having to do any emotional processing. Like he is most comfortable when those feelings aren’t addressed directly

[–]loser-like 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Yess!!! That's exactly what I was thinking! Its so clear that he defines his views of women by this system of beliefs.

I feel like his romantic arc is literally grappling with the fact that Hachi is actually a complex and beautiful person with a life of her own, and is Not the sexual object he tries to justify she is. He is coping with the fact that she is breaking this false belief he has.

[–]candxbaetakumi's prison therapist 20 points21 points  (5 children)

Yess, thank you for your service 🙏🏻 That’s what I’ve been saying the whole time. Even Hachi agrees with you

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[–]Taeng9Sica🪐✨🍓[S] 18 points19 points  (0 children)

Hachi's a lot of things, but she has a better understanding of people's emotions and feelings in this manga than most other characters

[–]chaeyulishin protection squad 7 points8 points  (3 children)

Hachi is so empathetic and the opposite of selfish that she’s talking about her HUSBAND loving another woman, and she still seems more concerned about him and Reira being happy

[–]Nana-and-curious707hey Nana... 2 points3 points  (1 child)

I don't disagree, but you also have to keep in mind that she is a huge Trapnest fan. Also her main reason for choosing Takumi is his financial stability that he could offer to her and especially to the child. She knows that if Reira has a breakdown it's all over. There are a lot of conflicting emotions in her... It is very hard, but let's not idealize her either...

[–]chaeyulishin protection squad 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I don’t think that Hachi is with Takumi because of the money. Of course, it’s definitely a huge reason, but I think she’s attached to him because he was the only one there for her when she needed help, and she doesn’t think she deserves better than that. Takumi is rich, he’s basically Trapnest’s manager on top of their bassist + composer, he won’t end up in the street just because Trapnest is no more. He’s living pretty comfortably years after it did with two children and a wife to support.

Of course, she is worried about her husband’s job and for her own security, but I don’t think it’s all that. She clearly knows Takumi and Reira love each other yet she’s been nothing but nice to Reira, even when they’ve barely met and when she’s not present. She’s also worried about Shin’s feelings towards her (I think this takes place after she finds out)

I didn’t think about her being a Trapnest fan. After that first concert and meeting Takumi, honestly I barely remember her being even remotely interested about their music. I won’t dismiss it though.

[–]candxbaetakumi's prison therapist 1 point2 points  (0 children)

She’s an angel :( I love her so much

[–]Holiday_Shirt_7663 4 points5 points  (0 children)

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I totally agree with OP this relationship is deeper and more complex than any other one. People who thinks he only sees her as his little sister are either too young or just look at the big picture. When I was younger I thought the same bc I was too shallow to see the obvious. The way he looks at her, how gentle he is when it comes to her how he always protects her even when she’s in the wrong. Not to mention he called her beautiful several times( once in front of Nana K).

She’s his vision of the perfect woman yet untouchable due to her being his sort of Madonna (compared her to an angel in his special chapter). So he finds comfort in women who looks or/and acts like Reira such as Hachi or this one actress whom he slept with since he can’t have her.

The thing that appeared unseen is that he purposely put a distance between them due to his attraction for her and that is since their childhood. They kissed several times when they were kids, it was innocent until he realized her beauty as he got older. This when he started to get distant towards her yet through music and the band he had a way to keep her by his side without tainting her with his darkness.

Therefore it explains the name of the band “TRAPNEST”. We can think that Takumi is selfish by putting her in that sort of cage just so she could stay by his side and he is yet it’s deeper than that. This guy cares so much for her that the minute Reira said she loved singing and wanted to be a singer he made it happen by creating a band. They were only kids at that time yet he gave her a life purpose & she did too, those 2 communicate through music. They’re both flawed characters who did real unforgivable damage on others, but I strongly believe is that they are each other’s soulmates.

Also, Takumi is violent towards most people but she’s the exception, he genuinely wants to see her happy. I’ll end my thesis here but I could go on and on about them. (For further details I’d recommend to read his special chapter for those who didn’t).

[–]chichi_vanitetoo poor to afford Vivienne Westwood 1 point2 points  (0 children)

beautifully stated ☆