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all 68 comments

[–]LastHomeros 16 points17 points  (4 children)

What’s the ethnic makeup of this alternative state? I assume it’s something like 75% Palestinian Muslim, 12% Palestinian Jewish (naturalized), 8% Palestinian Christian, 5% Others (Armenians, Turks, Assyrians, Europeans, etc.)

[–]nemasikiriki[S] 3 points4 points  (3 children)

Yup, without any forced expulsions and genocide the state is majority Palestinian Muslim, there are still historically Christian and Jewish majority cities and villages throughout the country. Larger cities such as Jaffa, Nazareth, Bethlehem, and obviously Jerusalem are very diverse.

[–]LastHomeros 3 points4 points  (2 children)

So, is it a secular state by its constitution to prevent sectarian wars?

[–]Faelchu 40 points41 points  (5 children)

While Al-Quds is the Arabic name, I feel even in this scenario the name would still be represented on English-language maps as Jerusalem (perhaps with Al-Quds in brackets below). I know in this universe I've seen plenty of maps with Jerusalem written and Yerushalayim written below in brackets. I would presume the Arabic would replace the Hebrew in brackets while the English was kept.

[–]nemasikiriki[S] 9 points10 points  (0 children)

It still would be, I just focused more on the localized city names on this map. Probably should’ve added English names as well.

[–]Racko20 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I sort of thought Al-Quids was more like a nickname like The Windy City or The Big Apple.

[–]Hour_Lingonberry_870 -1 points0 points  (1 child)

In this alternate history, the Arab-Spring happens to avoid Palestine.

Syrian refugees (or Egyptian ones) start pouring in and your country cannot support all these refugees.

You are the PM of Palestine. What will you do?

This is a little joke on what happened in 1948 but put in the modern era

[–]Faelchu 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I think you may have replied to the wrong person...

[–]JD-Cowboys-Bolts [score hidden]  (0 children)

Al-Quds, ironically is the colonizer name for Jerusalem

[–]michaelclas 27 points28 points  (1 child)

Why does your time line start after WW2?

The Jews in Palestine were already quite numerous (around 1/3 of the population) and well organized before that point and very much wanted a Jewish state regardless of future Jewish immigration

A more realistic point of departure would be for the Balfour Declaration to never happen and Jewish immigration to remain rather minor after that point

[–]ImpressiveEnergy4762 4 points5 points  (0 children)

Better: if Alexander II wasn't assassinated. Because of "temporary measures", Ashkenazim flee from Russia and started larping as Sephardim, reconstructing Hebrew with Sephardic pronounciation, not Ashkenazi (with s instead of t, such as Kashrus instead of Kashrut).

Just say that Palestine will collapse without Israel in internal and intersectarian fights. Fuck Husseini, embrace Hashemite Kingdom of Syria and Jewish Autonomy over Tel-Aviv and Judea.

[–]ZookeepergameFit967 30 points31 points  (3 children)

Unrealistic, why would Jordan be a republic? Without the existence of Israel, Arab Socialism embodied in Nasser wouldn't exist, without Israel's victory there wouldn't be a Jamal Abdulnasser and without him, republicanism would still be confined in liberals and communists.

And most likely Nuri Pasha Al Said would put his plans into action to annex Syria, Jordan and Palestine and establish the Hashemite Arab Federation

[–]Kernanshaw01 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Pan-Arabism and socialism were already present and widespread in the Arab world before 1948 as a result of decades of European imperialism in the Middle East. The 1948 defeat was tipping point but there were plenty of other things fueling their popularity, their rise was practically inevitable by this time

[–]nemasikiriki[S] 12 points13 points  (1 child)

Nasser still could come to power even without Israel, ITL King Farouk’s extravagant lifestyle and spending while the majority of Egyptians lived in poverty led to his popularity plummeting and the 1952 revolution. Jordan became a republic shortly after Iraq fell, ITL Britain never came to the aid of King Hussein.

[–]Dizzy-Assistant6659 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Without the war in '48, there wouldn't have been a Nasser as we know him. Indeed, without the war exposing the stark realities of the royal government, the King would be in a much stronger position, whilst any opposition members would lack the necessary fame and influence that Nasser or Naguib held to launch a successful coup.

[–]UGMadness 4 points5 points  (1 child)

Who is the UAR uniting with if Syria isn't part of it?

[–]nemasikiriki[S] 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Egypt and Syria formed the UAR and split just like in OTL, Egypt kept the name UAR.

[–]sachiko_vl03 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Would it be a real democracy or a hybrid regime/dictatorship, and due too what?

[–]nemasikiriki[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children)

It would be a relatively stable democratic regime. There was a former President that attempted to consolidate power around him and form a cult of personality but he was ousted from power by the Palestinian Special Forces in 1958.

[–]mmmmm-warlord 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And so, without the anger of the officers and the Egyptian people after the defeat in the 1948 war against Israel, what is known as the July Revolution well actually not happen, so the Nasserist movement will not appear The framework of Arab nationalism will continue within the Arab League (which will become something of an independent United Nations for Arab states) and the framework of the Arab Cooperation Movement. Socialism will likely emerge later in Syria and Iraq, and an Arab republic may be established, Egypt may become authoritarian under King Farouk I, but this could end after his death and stability return under the Wafd Party. Palestine is very close to Jordan and may enter into some form of economic cooperation with it; I don't foresee a full union cuz Palestine will most likely be led by a man with socialist leanings, and this will not be compatible with the Hashemite regime in Jordan, especially After the crisis caused by the fall of Suleiman al-Nabulsi and his party the "NSP" The conflict in the Middle East will likely be closer to traditional Islamic against socialist nationalism, but the situation in the Middle East will be much more stable.

[–]MycologistPure4064 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Is al-quds Jerusalem or am I stupid 

[–]KWJelly 7 points8 points  (0 children)

It is indeed

[–]Top_Location_5899 2 points3 points  (1 child)

Same idk

[–]FletchPup 2 points3 points  (0 children)

[–]Racko20 2 points3 points  (7 children)

Does Tel-Aviv not exist in this timeline?

[–]nemasikiriki[S] 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Without the large influx of European Jews, Tel Aviv was never developed like in OTL. Here it just remains a small city on the outskirts of Jaffa.

[–]ZookeepergameFit967 -1 points0 points  (4 children)

Tel Aviv was built on Jaffa. Why do you think its officially named Tel Aviv -Yafo

[–]michaelclas 17 points18 points  (0 children)

It’s called Tel Aviv - Yafo cause the cities were always interconnected and officially merged in 1950, not cause TA was build on top of it

[–]Racko20 12 points13 points  (0 children)

It was built next to Jaffa.

[–]Robot1945 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Jaffa still exists. It was built right next to it and now the two are treated as one

[–]JD-Cowboys-Bolts [score hidden]  (0 children)

The dumbest part of this misinformation is you can literally look up videos of Jaffa still existing, or, you know, look at a map

[–]EvilInGood 6 points7 points  (2 children)

This is probably every pro-Palestinian's dream which is very far-fetched and so many things could go wrong. Practically impossible. Also, the discussion of Israel becoming a country started when Ottoman Empire still existed.

[–]nemasikiriki[S] 0 points1 point  (1 child)

ITL the discussion of a Jewish state still happened post WW2, but nothing came of it.

[–]EvilInGood 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It was most likely being planned for a long time. But the right moment to make a move could have taken decades and they knew that which is how they made decisions about it.

[–]maxisnotmy 1 point2 points  (0 children)

[–]Morning_Stxr -4 points-3 points  (7 children)

Here before the mossad bots

[–]Neither-Ruin5970 5 points6 points  (2 children)

I work for mossad. We don’t use bots. But I get paid by the hour to comment on posts like these.

[–]Difficult_Weekend604 1 point2 points  (2 children)

Whats a mossad bot?

[–]Morning_Stxr -1 points0 points  (1 child)

Mossad is the israeli intelligence service

[–]mmmmm-warlord 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I will be here waiting with you

[–]floob124 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Good ending

[–]el_argelino-basado 0 points1 point  (0 children)

How does the GDP per Capita compare to its neighbors? Is the general region strongly affected by the Cold War?

[–]MappingDegurechaff 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I misread Jordan as Japan help

[–]NAHTHEHNRFS850 [score hidden]  (0 children)

What's the difference between the United Arab Republic and Egypt?

[–]No_Clue4405 [score hidden]  (0 children)

I will say a lot of the migration happened before World War II. Many Russian Jews moved to Israel or America during the 1900s to 1920s. The 1920s saw the foundation of cities like Tel Aviv, Netanyahu and Haifa as major centers or places in their own right. While the first few Aliyah’s had made the Galilee very Jewish

[–]DOGEFLIEP 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Keep imagining maps

[–]EvilestFlowey -2 points-1 points  (0 children)

Nice map. Lol at the "mossad bots" comment below.

[–]Difficult_Airport_86Mod Approved 0 points1 point  (0 children)

<image>

Average Palestinian resident

[–]IS-21 -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

Nice wholesome map

[–]Intelligent_Face_186 -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

If only we had the good ending

[–]meatym8blazer -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

The good ending

[–]Zkang123 -1 points0 points  (4 children)

Where did the Jews emigrate to instead then?

[–]Racko20 0 points1 point  (0 children)

[ Removed by Reddit ]

[–]ImpressiveEnergy4762 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

Civil war starts in 3... 2... 1... LET'S FUCKING GO!!! LET'S GO MY DRUZES!

[–]Salt-Speaker-436 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Israel is in Madagascar in that scenario?

[–]epolonsky [score hidden]  (0 children)

Holy jeebus this is low effort. Without Jews, the whole world would be all peace and harmony and sunshine and roses and puppies for everyone.

But even more offensive than the unspoken antisemitism is the laziness.

  • Why was there no push for Jews to move to the Levant after WW2? Since Zionism predates the War, the only logical assumption is that the genocide was actually complete. What effect did that have on the timeline?
  • Was there no communism and no Cold War in this timeline? If not, what happened? (Maybe it was the Jews that caused the Cold War?) If there was a Cold War, how did it affect the development of these states? Certainly, the US and USSR would have been competing for influence. In our timeline both sides did extensive meddling in the politics of the Middle East through open and clandestine, economic and violent means. What were they doing here?
  • How did the native Arab political movements evolve in the absence of Israel? Socialism, pan-Arabism, Baathism, monarchism, and Islamism were already competing in our timeline. How did they evolve differently here? And the idea that they all just settled their differences and decided to set up a liberal democracy on a Western model is some patronizing bullshit.

Do better.