Thread: Tafsir Al-Tabari and the verse of the sun setting into a muddy spring (Q18:86)

Recently in a discussion between @Ridvan Aydemir | Apostate Prophet 🎗 and @Farid in regards to whether Q18:86 can mean that the sun literally sets into a spring in the west, Apostate prophet mentioned Al-Tabari as an example of it being literal.

I am unsure if Farid has addressed this assertion of AP, but what I do know is that many Muslims have said that Apostate prophet is wrong on this front, and that Al-Tabari only discusses two variant readings to describe the spring. (See for example) https://youtu.be/BQR_IkQ1JyM

My full opinion and look at Al-Tabaris tafsir can be seen here https://theislamissue.wordpress.com/2022/03/23/tafsir-al-tabari-for-q1886/… however here are summaries of what can be found in Tabaris tafsir

First, the Muslim claim that Al-Tabari prominently discusses these variant readings is certainly true, as in the first section he mentions that some read حَمِئَةٍ (muddy) and others حَامِئَةٍ (hot). However what he says these readings mean is rather interesting.

Tabari says that the meaning of حَمِئَةٍ is that “the sun sets in a spring that contains mud” while حَامِئَةٍ means “that the sun sets in a spring of warm water”. Certainly from reading this, you would get a literalist impression from Al-Tabari

Tabari then mentions narrations of those who read حَمِئَةٍ. This is likely why some argue Tabari solely talks of the readings. All the narrations are mentioned in this framework. However these narrations don't just include the person who read حَمِئَةٍ, they include commentary too

In first 2 of 15 narrations In his tafsir, Tabaris reports from Ikrimah that Ibn Abbas read حَمِئَةٍ and commented that the spring is black mud. In the first he quotes the verse and says "in black mud" possibly implying literalism.

In narration 3, companions Ibn Abbas and Muawiya disagree on the reading. Ibn Abbas reads حَمِئَةٍ, Muawiya reads حَامِئَةٍ. They went to another companion, Kab Al-Ahbar who argued for Ibn Abbas because "as for the sun, it disappears in 'Thatin'” meaning mud. Clear literalism.

Narration 4 is somewhat similar. In this Kab is asked about the spring and Kab said that in the book (Torah, because he was an Ex-Jew) he finds the sun “disappearing in black mud”

Narration 5 is like narration 1 and 2 in that Ibn Abbas describes the spring as black mud. This time though, Attiyah Al-Awfi reports it from Ibn Abbas

Narrations 6 and 7 come from Mujahid Jabr as transmitted by two prized students of his: Abu Najih and Ibn Jurayj. Mujahid also describes the spring as mud or black mud. He was possibly influenced by Ibn Abbas who was Mujahids teacher.

Narration 8 is reported from Ibn Abbas by his famed student Atta. Ibn Abbas here reads حَمِئَةٍ and Amr bin Al-Aas reads حَامِئَةٍ. They go to Kab and he endorses Ibn Abbas' reading saying “it sets into black mud”

Narration 9 is from the great Basran scholar Qatadah. In this he describes the spring as black mud

Narration 10 is incredibly interesting. It comes from Ibn Abbas by his companion Sayd b. Jubayr. In this Ibn Abbas reads حَمِئَةٍ and says “Black mud that the sun sets in” which is clear literalism.

This narration is also authentic https://www.dorar.net/h/ec5da855d71296a764b516b57ca8e6d1…