I was raised Mormon. In the 1800’s Mormons fled religious persecution (citation needed) and traveled west through Mexican territory to the Utah valley. They established a religious theocracy there. They sent settlers to found towns in the surrounding areas that would become Colorado, Idaho, New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and California. Their Prophet came to be the head of the territory when the US came calling as well as the first governor when this place became a state in the Union. But before that happened, there was Deseret. The Mormons petitioned the US government to allow the church to create a nation in the west, encompassing an enormous portion of the newly acquired Mexican territory, to be run under the doctrines of their religion. Doctrines that included such horrors as blood atonement for apostates, racist and genocidal views against indians in the area, and polygamist fundamentalism. The idea of Deseret never bore fruit, but there are revelations in the Mormon religion saying that Deseret is a place set aside for God’s people, destined for the Mormons. “This is the place”. Today, there are only a few, strange fundamentalist Mormons who believe in a Mormon homeland, they are religious extremists called Deseret Nationalists, or DesNats. I wonder what would the world have been like if the United States had allowed the religion to form that nation. If they had funded them. Armed them for the Indian Wars of the 1800’s. Would there be a theocratic country in Utah today? I don’t know. But this post isn’t really about Mormons or Deseret. It’s about something else. The Mormons call Deseret, and Utah today, Zion. This post is about the dangers of tying religion to the possession of land. This post is about Zionism.
You know, considering the name alone I’m surprised I don’t see more of this flavor of antisemitism. 19th century American Mormons used the name ‘Zion’, so that has to be comparable to the ongoing millennia of history of the Jews in general and the Levant in particular, amirite?
I say this as a pun fully intended, but jfc.
Oh, I see. So you’re being racist against Jews in order to scapegoat us for your ancestors’ sins of colonialism and thus use us to atone for your original sin. That explains a LOT about your mindset, your historical ignorance, and your general belief that you’re on the right side of this argument.
All in all… Cool motive, still antisemitism, OP.
Mormon Zion is an ephemeral concept that justifies establishment of holy state that will convert or destroy all opposition to bring about Mormons’ holy sci-fi white supremacist theocracy.
Hebrew Zion is a hill in Jerusalem. Its symbolic of Land of Israel because its there where Israelites come from. Jews are very old nation, reliably traced to Iron Age, and Zion is in their homeland, thus Zion has been a symbol of importance for Jews for longer than Mormons, American settler colonialism, dominance of Islam and Christianity have ever existed.
The whole reason anyone in the world but natives of that corner of eastern Mediterranean care about Zion is centuries of conquest and cultural appropriation. Mormons especially latch onto Hebrew-originating terminology in Christianity and incorporate it into their MLMesque society of strict patriarchy, social gaslighting and extraction of money from the faithful, making the members clean and maintain their holy houses while investing their tithes in likes of Google and Apple. Mormon Zion has exactly as much to do with Mount Zion as settler colonialism has to do with national sovereignity.
You are the one making this substitution of meaning, @deusluxmachaera. You don’t come off so ex-Mormon as you claim it to be.
By their own logic, any Native tribe who might be wanting their original homelands back from the Mormon settlers because their religious practices and culture are tied to that region are apparently White Colonizers, even if they buy the land back from the Mormons! How convenient!
Zion as in Tzion as in ציון is also the poetic name for Jerusalem in Jewish scripture, liturgy and poetry.
In Eichah, Lamantations, Jerusalem is referred to as ציון Tzion several times. Jewish poets through out Jewish history both before the Roman Occupation and most certainly after it, both in the Homeland and in the Diaspora use ציון Tzion in reference to Jerusalem.
That is where the Zion in Zionism comes from.
To try and compare any of this with mormonism and the weird fuckery they have going and their creepy theft of Jewish terminology is fucked up and flat out wrong.
If you want to repent for the wrongdoings of your ancestors and the sins they did and the wrongdoings you did and were a part of when you were a mormon great you go and do that.
Just leaves us Jews out of it because we are not mormons and we have nothing to do with whatever fuckery the mormons did and do.
ZION ISNT A “ MYTHICAL UTIOPIA ITS REAL!!!!! ITS ISRAEL! ITS JERUSALM!!!!! IT WAS YHAHODA!!!!! ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?!!?!!?!!? HOW DARE YOU!!!!!!??!!?!?!!
מדובר בויקיפדיה, למה ציפית?
אני אודה שלפעמים אני חוטא בשיטות בערכים ויקיפדיה האנגלית כי בעברית פשוט אין מספיק לגבי מדעי הרוח
שיטוט*
זה לגמרי,במאה אחוז, התיקון האוטומטי ולא האימפולסיביות שלי
כן זה נשמע הגיוני הוא חשב על שִׁיטוֹת
(זו גם הסיבה שתיקנתי גם במקרה הזה וגם במקרה של "ובכן”, פשוט הייתי צריכה לקרוא את המשפט כמה פעמים כדי להבין למה הייתה הכוונה)
No, this is getting Zion: Original Flavor confused with Zion: Mormon Flavor. Mormons believe that Zion is heaven on earth and is a utopia but it hasn’t been created.
It’s more Mormons stealing Jewish ideas and preventing them B.S.
This should link to a separate page about the Mormon concept of Zion, which is very much NOT the Jewish version.
i don’t care if it’s nazis, mormons, or a bunch of misguided autistic people. if anyone ever tries to tell you your soul is from another planet and you’re actually part of the class of impressive people that secretly did everything cool in the world but is now extinct and lives on through your broken genome, you RUN. YOU WILL RUN AWAY. YOU WILL SPRINT FULL SPEED AWAY FROM THAT.
grabs you by the shoulders listen. listen to my words. i understand the urge to make fanfiction about yourself and to find a reality in which you’re super awesome and great and everyone who hates you is wrong and dumb. i get it. you’re better than that. you can love yourself without putting other people down, dehumanizing and generalizing, and retaliating against your oppressors.
there’s no NPCs. there’s no aliens coming to save us. we’re not the next step in human evolution. our hyperconnected nervous systems give us terrible sensory overwhelm more often than they make us geniuses. neurotypical people are sentient, conscious, aware people who are capable of understanding you. we’re more the same than we are different. we’re more the same than we are different. we’re more the same than we are different.
Also stay away from people who say shit like “sexual attraction and romance addles the mind and makes you crazy and irrational and this is why being aro/ace makes you intellectually superior.” I’ve seen that a couple times times on this hellsite. Stay away from anyone who tries to convince you that your racial identity/cultural identity/gender identity/sexual orientation/neurodivergence/any other intrinsic quality makes you a member of some master race that is inherently superior to the other humans.
Also if you hear the words “indigo children” or “crystal children” and you’re not listening to a podcast on cults or pseudoscience then do not pass go, do not collect $200, go directly to right the fuck out of there.
Many of us may daydream or have power fantasies and those are a form of coping skills. This is not talking about that. Because as long as you recognize that it is a power fantasy and/or a daydream then is nothing inherently unhealthy about it.
So I'm in episode 4 of season 2 of severance and like Lumon is cult right. Like if Mormonism mixed with corporate culture mixed with Scientology that would kinda be Lumon.
Like the middle management non-severed folks such as Milchick and Cobel sound like die hard members of a cult.
The stuff with the handbooks and the way the talk and treat the ceo and his family it so cult like. Also the making up and re-writing of the history of Kier Egan and the way praise him like he is their god at the company the whole thing is so creepy.
Is Mormonism not a cult mixed with corporate culture? Admittedly, Scientology had to get really crazy with the space aliens, Mormonism was already hogging all the “god is a space alien who made a Jesus by having extramarital sex with mary”, and promising to turn good Mormons into gods.
Learning about Mormonism is like witnessing a train crash, you can’t look away.
Oh yeah those are all cults. I was just describing what Lumon gives me the vibes of which is mix of Mormonism, Scientology, and corporate culture. Like in the way it operates and functions.
I just am confused how like in universe no one seems to be thrown by Lumon and find them to be a cult. Like the only protesters we see is the anti-severance protesters and the band singing fuck Lumon.
But so far (at least for me due where I’m at in the show) no like major wide scale anti-Lumon stuff or legislation.
islam did supercessionism+ when they took all of our mythological figures and said that they had actually always been muslim all along. although i bet some christians have done this too.
I think the Mormons do/did a baptism for famous people after they died, making them Mormon.
Regular Christianity sees Jewish figures through a solely Christian lens; reinterpreting things as totally foretelling Jesus’s coming.
There’s a weird thing with Song of Songs-2 instances of supercessionism, one Muslim the other Christian. where some Muslims claim Muhammad is foretold. For Christians, it about Christ and the church.
its so weird how jewish texts written by jews are always about everyone but the jews
Mormons are famous for their postmortem baptisms and have famously done these Jews who were murdered in the Holocaust, you know despite the families begging them not to.
The Mormon Church/LDS has claimed that they stopped doing it after much backlash, but many ex-Mormons have said that is not true.
Btw Xtianity claims that anytime a lamb comes up in the Tanach it is reference to jebus. You know even though the lamb thing is like the go to metaphor for Am Yisrael. Like it especially comes up in the Torah with metaphor being Moshe as the Shepard to Yisrael the flock/lamb.
They also use the lamb theme going on from Pesach as proof that it was foretold.
To which I would like someone to please let me know when Jewish texts and Jewish scripture and Jewish liturgy might just possibly by chance be talking about Jewish figures and the Jewish people.
The more I see of Mormonism the more convinced I become that Mormonism wants to be a replacement of Jews.
Like so much of their stuff uses word for word for our texts that it is scary. Like most of the various Christian denominations will use “the God of Abraham” but Mormon use “the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob” which is how we do it.
There is just so much so stuff.
This is not like where like they admire us and want to wear the same clothes as us. But rather it gives a very they want to skin us and wear our it type of vibe just so I’m to be clear.
I tried messaging you privately but I can’t even see your page. It also won’t allow me to repost the original post or add a comment; hopefully I can reach you this way.
I don’t know who hurt you, but on behalf of them I sincerely apologize. Anyone who claims to be a Christian and says they hate anyone- Atheist, Jew, Mormon, Catholic, etc., or even someone who doesn’t subscribe to labels- isn’t a true Christian and shouldn’t bear witness to the name of Christ. Spewing hatred is wrong, period. No excuses, ifs, ands, or buts. I’m sorry if that was your experience, and sincerely hope it doesn’t continue that way for you. My inbox is open if you ever want to have a conversation.
If you don’t know anything about the history of Christianity’s mistreatment of Jews through history, Church sanctioned antisemitism, and modern day religious antisemitism, I would suggest starting with reading myjewishlearning and the Virtual Jewish Library. Antisemitism is baked into the foundations of Christianity and Christian history/behavior.
Maybe then you’ll learn why saying you don’t know “who hurt (Jews)” and that Christians never would is such a bad look. Especially saying so this close to Christmas.
Apparently there’s drama in the Swiftie fandom because a prominent (?) Swiftie was pretending to be Jewish–tweeting about Birthright, Jewish sleepaway camp, her overbearing mother trying to set her up with Josh Kushner–and then someone found the Swiftie’s family’s social media and she’s MORMON.
the stuff this person who fakes being Jewish writes is so gross and disgusting and goes very hard into antisemitic stereotypes especially about Jewish women.
I think the one that really got me was the comment about the “Jewish bloodline pure”. It made feel sick. Shit like that has and still does get us murdered.
What the fuck
Reading through the doc gave me some weird vile emotional combination of rage, terror, feeling physically sick and trying to not laugh my ass off bc she literally sounds like an antisemetic stereotype she doesn’t sound like a Jew at all. Literally talks like someone pretending to be Jewish it’s somehow baffling and laughable and deeply upsetting all at the same time
Apparently there’s drama in the Swiftie fandom because a prominent (?) Swiftie was pretending to be Jewish–tweeting about Birthright, Jewish sleepaway camp, her overbearing mother trying to set her up with Josh Kushner–and then someone found the Swiftie’s family’s social media and she’s MORMON.
the stuff this person who fakes being Jewish writes is so gross and disgusting and goes very hard into antisemitic stereotypes especially about Jewish women.
I think the one that really got me was the comment about the “Jewish bloodline pure”. It made feel sick. Shit like that has and still does get us murdered.
What the fuck
Anonymous asked:
Not to you, GAM, but there was no such passage in the Book of Mormon. Yes, the Abrahamic faiths have proselytizing as part of their core tenants, but holy crap on a stick, it is possible to be able to live with people of other faiths and not be an asshole about it! Damn! Makes me ashamed to be Mormon sometimes.
not only does Judaism not proselytize, but proselytizing is not allowed in Judaism and if you do proselytize then you are doing Judaism wrong.
This is why goyim shouldn’t be allowed to use the terms “Abrahamic faiths” or “Judeo-Christian.” Y'all clearly know nothing about Judaism at all.
When people try to become Jewish, one of the critical steps is telling them no multiple times, does that really sound like proselytizing to anyone?
Anonymous asked:
Not to you, GAM, but there was no such passage in the Book of Mormon. Yes, the Abrahamic faiths have proselytizing as part of their core tenants, but holy crap on a stick, it is possible to be able to live with people of other faiths and not be an asshole about it! Damn! Makes me ashamed to be Mormon sometimes.
Asher is actually a biblical Hebrew name common amongst Jewish people that she obviously considered appropriating (I’m pretty sure she’s Mormon). Taysom and Nayvie, however…totally made up white bullshit.
you can have hitler if you like, but keep your filthy hands off of Jews.
like fuck you
a thousand curses for a thousand generations on every person who does this
seriously what the fuck is wrong with you people
Anne Frank died because of the belief that Jews are worth less than Christians, by baptizing her after her death, you are engaging in the same practices that led to her being brutally murdered
ETA: So while the baptisms of the dead is still popular practice (and has been for awhile) I think(?) that they are still trying to prevent Holocaust victims from being baptized as they eventually announced the would do (re: the Firewall mentioned). The article is vaguely written and just seems to say “they were told to stop baptizing Shoah victims, and did, but they still baptize the dead commonly.” I can’t tell if they’re continuing to baptize Shoah victims specifically, or just….anyone generally like they always have? On the FLIPSIDE the article also mentions some….possibly good advances for LGBT Mormons? There’s mention of not persecuting people of different sexual attractions.
From a perspective of a member of The church of Jesus Christ of latter day saints (Mormon) and someone who regular preforms these proxie baptisms I would like to try and help clarify some things.
1. We don’t do baptisms for any holocaust victims or anyone else who died as a result of standing up unless they were our DIRECT ancestors and even then if they died under 110 years ago, you must get permission from the closest living relative to be able to preform their baptism. Here is a link to the manual for getting names to take to the temple it says explicitly in there do not submit names of holocaust victims: https://www.lds.org/manual/introduction-to-family-history-student-manual/chapter-7?lang=eng
2. The reason we do preform baptisms for the dead is because we believe that it is a saving ordnance and we want everyone to have the opportunity to be saved and live with our heavenly father. God is very merciful and would like to be reunited with all of his children thats why we do proxie baptisms, so they have the opportunity to be rejoined with God one day. Here is another article that explains it better: https://www.lds.org/topics/baptisms-for-the-dead?lang=eng&old=true
3. This one might be the most important for everyone to realize. THOSE WHO DIED HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO ACCEPT OR REJECT THE WORK DONE FOR THEM. We believe that there is a period between the death and when we are judged where we will be in spirit paradise or prison depending on our life choices. Those in spirit prison will be able to be forgiven of their sins and we believe that having their baptism done for them is one of the steps they need to take to become forgiven for their sins. So if someone dosnt want to be baptized they dont have to accept the work being done for them. Also explained simply in this short article: https://www.lds.org/new-era/2016/03/why-we-do-baptisms-for-the-dead?lang=eng
If anyone has any questions they can ask me and I will try to answer the best I can or they can find most answers to questions on the churches website https://www.lds.org
Still unfuckingcool.
I think we need to formally expand the definition of goysplaining to include when gentiles like @hungergameskill pull this crap and make a longwinded effort to explain how a particular religious practice which is most certainly anti-Jewish isn’t antisemitic.
