Wait what's a buildings fire evacuation plan if you aren't supposed to use the elevator to get down
You go down the stairwell/fire escape. Is that weird?
But what if you have a walker or a wheelchair??
in america at least, in this situation, there isnt one. either your loved ones or the firemen can get you out using the emergency fire escapes or stairs, or you die
That's fucking horrific, thank you
“fun” little story:
last summer my friend who is an amazingly talented artist and i were in this super tall building, and she’s in a wheelchair and i’m pushing her around the room. it’s an art exhibit and some of her art was chosen to be showcased there and so it’s all fine and dandy until suddenly an alarm starts going off
a FIRE ALARM
everyone starts running for the stairs and my friend just looks at me with this forlorn look on her face
“i can’t go down the stairs”
but i’m a stubborn bitch “i’ll carry you”
“what about my chair? it’s too expensive for me to be able to get another one if i can’t get this one back”
“i’ll carry that too”
and i did. we went to the stairs (by then most people from our floor were gone) and i lifted her up in a fireman’s carry over my shoulder and then lifted her chair up and used the ridiculous amount of adrenaline that was coursing through my veins to make it down approximately 20 half-flights of stairs until we met some people exiting lower floors, one of which who kindly took the chair. I changed positions so i was holding my friend bridal-style which was, somehow, easier and the person who took her wheelchair (with her permission to handle it of course) accompanied me to the ground floor and then out the doors
basically there is no real protocol for people who can’t use the stairs in an emergency. it’s up to the people with them, if anyone, to help them or the person to somehow make it down the stairs alone, unassisted
thank fuck that it was just a faulty alarm system, because if i was unable to carry her down those stairs and the building was on fucking fire???? then i don’t know what would have happened to her, but i don’t think it would have been very good.
it’s fucking ridiculous and ableist to the absolute max.
I use a cane. When I did a day-long fire safety training at my northeast American university (UMass Amherst), I asked that exact same question: “what am I supposed to do if the fire alarm goes off and I’m in my lab on the twelfth floor?”
the fire marshal hemmed and hawed for a while and then said to take the elevator- you’re supposed to leave it free for the fire department to use and they want able-bodied people out fast not waiting for elevators. if the fire alarm has just gone off the building probably hasn’t suffered enough structural damage to make using the elevator dangerous, and modern elevator wells are heavily reinforced. many large and high-trafficked buildings on my campus have fire rated elevators that link in with the fire alarm system so they won’t let you off on a floor with a possible fire.
if the elevator isn’t working, wait in the stairwell and call the fire department to let them know where you are. modern stairwells are also heavily reinforced- it might not be pleasant but modern building code usually requires fire-resistant stairwell doors in office and big residential buildings, also to help firefighters get in and out safely. older buildings’ stairwells may or may not be retrofitted with fire-resistant doors but a stairwell is generally the safest place to wait if you can’t get out.
what happened to your friend was horrible, and i’m very glad you were there to help her out, but you can absolutely use the elevator to evacuate if it’s not shut down. those don’t-use-the-elevator rules are for abled people.
This is GOOD TO KNOW. why do they not tell people this??
Okay, firefighter here. If you are not physically able to use the stairs, and the elevator is NOT compromised, use the elevator. But you MUST be ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that the elevator is NOT compromised before you get into it, because there is always the chance that once you get into it, you may not exit it. Power could go out. The elevator may actually BE compromised and you just couldn’t tell from where you were until you were in there, and it suddenly shuts down on you. Something else could happen.
Understand that once you enter the elevator, you could POTENTIALLY be taking your life into your hands there.
It is NOT LIKELY, to be perfectly honest. It’s only in a pretty catastrophic scenario - think the Twin Towers, USA, on September 11th - that the elevators will be compromised and out of service. But there is a NOT ZERO PERCENT CHANCE and you need to understand that and accept it.
As for leaving the elevators free for the firefighters, okay, here’s the deal. Unless your nearest fire station is literally right next door? Your first on scene fire truck is NOT likely to be there on scene and needing that elevator before you get to the ground. It takes us TIME to find the address, gear up, and drive to the building. Then we need to hoof it into where the elevators even ARE, so YOU HAVE TIME to use the elevator to get down to the ground floor... BUT ONLY IF THERE’S NOT A RUSH ON THE ELEVATOR! And THAT is WHY we don’t tell people this shit. That’s WHY we tell people to NEVER USE THE ELEVATOR... because every self-entitled asshole will use it because they don’t feel like walking, and then put YOU in danger by delaying the elevator’s arrival to you.
IF, however, the elevator IS compromised, or you just can’t get it to come for you, or whatever, and you either don’t have anyone with you who has the adrenaline fueled BALLS to be able to toss you over their shoulder and hoof it down the stairs with you - because, let’s face it, that is RARE AS FUCK, then HERE IS WHAT YOU DO:
You call 911 and tell the call taker that you are in the building that has a fire alarm going off, and you are not able to evacuate because of a physical disability, and you tell them what floor you are on, and EXACTLY what stairwell you are waiting at. And the very FIRST thing that the firefighters are going to do once they arrive, if it is, indeed, a REAL emergency, and not a false alarm, is come get your ass and bring you down. Whether that means carrying you down the stairs, or whether that means locking out the elevators so that no one else can override them and coming to get you themselves, they WILL come get you FIRST THING if it is a real event. And if it is a false alarm? You will probably be the first person who is not involved with the building to know, because the call-taker is going to stay on the line with you until you are under someone’s care and out of danger, or until the scene has been sorted out as real or false, and you are out of danger that way.
These are pretty standard operations in the fire service throughout the United States. There may be some minor variations based on specific municipalities, but, for the most part, this is pretty typical: LIFE BEFORE PROPERTY. So, as long as SOMEONE knows where you are - hence why you call 911 - Firefighters will come get you. You are NOT alone, and you have NOT been abandoned. I PROMISE. It’s like, our whole reason for doing the shit we do: to save lives and to break shit. Sometimes, we get lucky enough to do both at the same time.
High rise fires suck ass, and I always hated them. But the very FIRST thing I asked anytime we got one was if we had “any entrapments” - which is what we call anyone who could not self-evacuate for ANY reason. We ain’t leaving you behind. And yes, your friend who doesn’t have the stamina to carry you down can stay with you, too. Because I would never ask that of someone, honestly.
Also, just a little FYI... MOST fire alarms are false alarms. Not to make anyone complacent or anything, but, yeah. Most of them are either system malfunctions, someone accidentally hit a pull station, or someone burned popcorn in a break room. So don’t let a fire alarm freak you out until you need it to - by smelling or seeing smoke or flames.
i have had multiple nightmares about this very thing because NOBODY BOTHERS TO ACTUALLY TELL WHEELCHAIR USERS THIS STUFF
I am loving these additions!
If you're disabled, this is worth the time and focusing energy to read through!!!
Short version:
If disabled and the fire alarm is just happened, you're allowed to take the elevators down but there's a small possibility you could get stuck if the elevators are compromised.
If you can't use the elevators or don't want that risk, go to the stairwell which is reinforced against fire, close the doors, and call 911 to let them know you are in that particular stairwell and can't get down.
Fire will strongly prioritize finding and rescuing people who might be still in the building during any actual structure fire. This is a major component of their job.
Fire people won't arrive in the course of one elevator run and actually half the deal with "don't use elevators" is supposed to be "leave it for people who need it in the emergency" which is both fire AND disabled people.
a fire is my worst nightmare as a disabled person, thank you to everyone who helped put this post together
BIIIIIG window slide
My understanding always was that you aren’t supposed to use elevators if you’re physically able to take the stairs so that elevators can be taken by those that need them. I definitely could be wrong though.
that's what I thought too??
I actually looked this up for a fic I was writing. The elevators are shut down in the event of a fire, but can be reactivated manually should someone, for whatever reason, need to use them
There were like yellow chair ramps at a place i used to work at, they were a bastard to use though and took multiple people to operate. So you are relying on the kindness of strangers to hopefully not let you die or for the fire to not reach the random rooms they assign you
I just wanna say you aren't supposed to not use the elevator because of ableism but because it's like. pressure cooker death if it shuts down while the building is still burning. But yea there should be an alternative.
I've never seen it in the US, but in the UK a lot of buildings have a specific room you're meant to go to if you can't use the stairs and/or have special emergency chairs placed around that are designed to go down stairs (with the help of another person)
An evac chair https://youtu.be/vETqg__O_cA
What about those sled-looking thingies like in schools?
@plethodon-cinereus i wish buildings had those but for some irrational reason they don't
Idk about other states, but I know in California, a lot of places have some special evacuation device thing that allow people in wheelchairs and the like to go down the stairs. They're usually in some big metal box right next to the stairs
When my mum worked for a nursing home they were told to wheel anyone in wheel chairs into the stairwell and leave them there and to get out of the building. She actually got in trouble once because during a fire drill she wouldn't leave the clientson their own.
This is because stairwells are required to be heavily reinforced so that they don't collapse in a fire and firefighters can use them. However, if your mother wasn't told that (and she probably wasn't if she didn't tell you that), she should not have gotten in trouble. I would also say that taking wheelchair users to the stairwell during a fire and simply leaving them for the firefighters is a great way to make them think they've been left for dead.
I know in my school (the Netherlands) we had this thing on every floor next to the stairs where you can roll a wheelchair on and then basically like lifting something heavy, you can grab it, tilt it so the person in the wheelchair is leaning back, and then carefully go down the stairs with it. I have never actually seen it in action but I know that during firedrills essentially the entire focus for the teachers was getting the one student and one staff member (1/2)
(2/2) in wheelchairs out of the building within a certain amount of time. They essentially ignored all other students. So there IS some way to get ppl in wheelchairs out of burning buildings, but you're dependent on others & on those carrying things to be present near staircases on every floor.
I use a cane and have trouble with stairs but was in a dorm building where the elevator worked when the alarms came on so I just took the elevator downstairs
Genuinely have no clue what to do, for other evacuations I just hobbled down the stairs and sat down outside waiting for the ankle pain to calm down. Would have a friend come by with icecream or something for me if I was tearing up
In my apartment complex, people are actually advised to stay in their units if they can't safely get down the stairs. The main office has a list of people who will need help to evacuate, and they give it to the fire department when they arrive. If you have a main office maybe you could ask them if there's a similar system for you?
Sometimes (uk) buildings have these things that are like sleds, and you're supposed to slide down the stairs, but it depends on you being able to transfer, and there being someone around who's trained to use it. (Its hung in a bag on a nearby wall, from the pics I think you have to unfold it?) But yeah wheelchair users are screwed :( its really annoying when they don't let you on rollercoasters bcthere'snoevacuationplanifyoucan'twalk
as someone who's been unable to use stairs, many buildings that have fire escapes, especially ones that are built into the building with concrete walls and metal doors, often have "shelter" areas in the stairwells, where i was told to remain until someone could help me. it's not ideal, but it's not exactly being left for dead. they're also high traffic areas during a fire, so the likelihood of someone being able to help is pretty high.
Not to be mean, but would those ramps not have sloles that are absolutely dangerous to go down on?
@star-star-space-stuff Yeah, this wouldn't make sense in a high rise building, which is what the post is talking about. The slopes would be way too steep.
Holy Jesus as fire department personnel, first of all -- most fires, the elevators are absolutely still operational until fire suppression gets there; they just often need to take over control of them to regulate immediate flow of traffic in and out of the building. Two issues: the hoistway, ie elevator coridor, pulls air from the void it travels in. If it's full of smoke, the carbon monoxide can kill you inside the elevator.
Obviously, a firefighter on a rebreather apparatus like their facemask and cylinder SCBAs are fine with smoke in the shaft. Unprotected people wouldn't be. Depending on where you are in a wheelchair, where the fire floor is, and how bad the fire really dictates if you can just use the elevator to get out. The other biggy is electricity.
Sometimes fires kill the building's electric either because it itself is an electrical fire or because FDs will cut gas and electric to a building as a safety precaution (floors do flood when you put wet stuff on red stuff). Please believe me, they will get you out in a basket or another kind of carrying device. If you smell smoke and hear alarms going off, depending on what kind of multilevel building we're dealing with here, just take the elevator...
... provided smoke isn't billowing out from behind the safety floor doors. The NFPA includes elevators in potential "circulation paths," or emergency routes, and a lot of improvements have been made to smoke sensors and waterproofing of elevators since, like, 2003. Yes, I've seen really awful housing project elevators and no, this doesn't apply to those (although often those aren't wooden frame buildings, and don't burn like crazy) which is absolutely criminal --
but believe me. We have carrying devices, and medical providers with SCBAs. We will get you out if no one else can.
My brother has a wheelchair and this made me think about what would happen if he was stuck on the top floor of a building during an emergency. So I basically googled fire protocol for people with disabilities and I found this https://www.nfpa.org/Public-Education/Fire-causes-and-risks/Specific-groups-at-risk/People-with-disabilities
This is terrifying??? Like at least in the UK a lot of buildings, especially big office buildings, schools and unis, hospitals etc, have these special emergency stretcher things designed to have a couple people help carry another person down. They’re usually kept at the top of stairwells and have instructions on the cover
I was in a car accident a year ago and as a result now use a walker and I had this exact question and I just have to hope I'm with someone who can get me down. Going from able bodied to disabled is insane bc all of a sudden the world around you is very clearly not built to accommodate anyone but a very specific group and it makes you realize that that's how it's always been and you just now noticed.
They have these sleds things. They load you into it like a hotdog, and then 2 people slide your ass down like a clothesline in a Tom and Jerry's cartoon. It's pretty quick if everyone involved knows what they're doing.
My college has a dork that's 11 stories, and the town's firefighters only had a ladder going up 7
A lot of buildings have fire rated staircases in which a disabled person could wait until they could be evacuated by firefighters. There is also a thing called a Garavanta which is used to transport someone who is unable to walk down the stairs. You're supposed to have people in your building who are trained to use it, but it is fairly simple.
My college has wheelchair user stair chair. Things? I briefly looked at the instructions but they are meant for that
From a building engineer: there is a dedicated space near the staircase called "place of refugee" and yes, this is where the person on wheelchair is supposed stay and wait for rescue. Also the place of refugee is inside the staircase core which is FIRE PROTECTED, way better than the rest of buildings and is able to withstand the spread of fire for a long time
Okay but at least where I'm at (Minnesota) fire code requires that an interior stairway be designed to basically be fireproof so that a person without full mobility can wait there for a professional rescuer who's trained to get them out safely?
Like we had a whole training on that when we moved to our new building (on the 9th floor) so that everyone knew
Tme to Sue
At my highschool at the top of each set of stairs was this collapsible wheel chair with wheels shaped kinda like a cross/X so that it could roll down the stairs? I don't know how well it would work once you got to the bottom though and I've never seen it used, though I guess it's better than nothing assuming you have someone who can set it up for you and help you transfer chairs then help the chair roll down the stairs
I’m the uk at the top of most sets of stairs in public buildings there is a special chair for taking people down the stairs when they can’t do it themselves and the staff of those buildings have to be trained in how to use it.
Not letting people get themselves killed in an elevator isn’t ableist. Able bodied people also rely on other people during emergencies, and i think both abled and disabled/non-abled people need to realize that our situation isn’t always fair and it’s good to be good friend with your neighbors, and remember if there’s someone in your apartment block you might need to help out if there is an emergency.
The retirement home I worked in when I was 18 had a fire one day and the dining staff (me and three others around my age) had to carry every resident in a wheelchair from the top floors to the outside. We had to get some of the wheelchairs too, which were all the big ass electric ones. No other staff or first responders helped us.
h? I thought buildings were required to have those chair stair things
Hi I work in a public building w options. 1st, your building SHOULD have a plan, if they don't, demand it. If your elevator doesn't automatically go down to the 1st floor and lock open (modern ones do) use the elevator if you don't see fire/smell smoke. what we have in public buildings are 'areas of assistance' that have special porta-lifts and an emergency button. Push if alone, use lift if not
When I've been trained in buildings that I am responsible for evacuating all of those buildings have stairwells that are fire rated for 6 hours. We are not allowed to carry someone down but as part of procedure wait with that person in the stairwell until the firemen come to carry them out. With six hours and a stairwell that opens to the outside on the bottom I've never been afraid of this scenario only of the panicking public. This is why building codes exist.
Grenfell Tower anyone?
