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all 94 comments

[–]Leather-Objective-87 12 points13 points  (22 children)

Unfortunately we don't have nearly enough compute here for that to happen. It feels very frustrating and made me realize in what weak position we are once again

[–]4evaNeva69 1 point2 points  (2 children)

That and software regulations are a bitch in France especially.

You specifically have to give the French government an encryption key/back door into your app to help against terrorism 🙄

[–]BankruptingBanks 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Wdym, all the training is done in cloud?

[–]KiKiKimbro 1 point2 points  (6 children)

The data centers they use for compute are using a massive amount of resources (e.g., water for cooling, electricity to run them), and our utilities bills are skyrocketing. It's bad. If you do a search for this, you'll see stories about the massive pollution in Memphis from xAI's datacenters, and the high utilities bills for residents who are left covering the cost of these data centers.

That said, Anthropic has stated they intend to contribute to utility costs to cover their compute. Because Anthropic is amazing and actually they actually about how AI affects people.

[–]BankruptingBanks 0 points1 point  (5 children)

What does this have to do with my comment?

[–]KiKiKimbro 1 point2 points  (4 children)

Hi! I was responding to your comment about how it’s all done “in the cloud,” as you commented to someone about how Europe doesn’t have enough “compute here” for Anthropic to move there. And you asked “wdym.” My comment was trying to address the “wdym” about not “enough compute here.”

Lol I need more caffeine because I’m not sure I’m explaining that well. :) But that’s all I was doing. Not meaning anything sassy or anything like that. Just saying for things with AI to happen in the cloud (you’re of course correct) AI requires massive amount of data centers, which requires massive amounts of land, areas with enough capacity to handle the resource drain (like electricity and water) often results like pollution and high utility costs —- with those requirements and results likely contributing to why Europe doesn’t have enough commute. That’s all. xx

[–]Personal-Dev-Kit 1 point2 points  (1 child)

You did good, I don't think that person tried to understand you.

[–]KiKiKimbro 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Thank you 😊

[–]unagibeans 0 points1 point  (1 child)

unless the us bans anthropic from us data centers, i dont see the problem?

[–]Personal-Dev-Kit 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Because given the current administration they tend to enjoy banning competitors to access US chips.

So the company risk in being outside of the US is much much higher then being in the US.

AI lives and dies off the compute they can get their hands on. If you now have to reach across international lines there is a much greater chance an unhappy administration on either side of that agreement could intervine or start applying extra taxes or tariffs.

[–]drcatguy 10 points11 points  (1 child)

I love how clueless average reddit person is lol

[–]Original-Produce7797 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

average reddit person is just an average person

[–]satoru-umezawa 4 points5 points  (1 child)

No, it is financial suicide.

[–]Geminatorr 0 points1 point  (0 children)

DoW wants to surveil every American and use AI in automated killing machines but the stock value is what's more important.

[–]PatchyWhiskers 3 points4 points  (2 children)

France is perpetually one election away from a fascist government loyal to Russian paymasters. So no.

[–]NarrativeNode 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Well, the US is one election beyond that, so France sure sounds better.

[–]One_Contribution -1 points0 points  (0 children)

That's the most ironic thing I've read online.

[–]Ravesoull 2 points3 points  (35 children)

Nope, they shouldn't. GDPR will just kill their potential.

[–]One_Contribution 1 point2 points  (13 children)

How?

[–]SecureHunter3678 0 points1 point  (1 child)

"Noooo. We can't go to the EU. We can't Exploit our Workers there! They need Mandatory Vacation and Maternity Leave! They also have Limits on Work Time per Day and Week! Oh and don't start me on Privacy. We actually need to give a shit and actually be transparent. We can't do that", - Anthropic Board Room meeting.

[–]One_Contribution 0 points1 point  (0 children)

The person did answer: "At the very least, user data must be reliably protected,..."

x)

[–]Ravesoull -1 points0 points  (10 children)

The burden that these regulatory requirements will place on Claude, while competitors in America may not be as constrained by such rules, and the Chinese can simply ignore privacy and user data concerns, with no one being able to stop them.

[–]jjelin 2 points3 points  (6 children)

Anthropic is based in California. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Google CCPA.

[–]Ravesoull -2 points-1 points  (5 children)

No, that's you have no idea what you are talking about.

  • GDPR obligate to store responsibly personal data of EVERY user in the EU borders.

  • CCPA obligates to store responsibly personal data of CA RESIDENTS only.

This is colossal difference in the volume of storing data and support of their service.

[–]jjelin 2 points3 points  (2 children)

This rule already applies to anthropic and they are doing just fine?

[–]Ravesoull -1 points0 points  (1 child)

No. Not every rule, applied to the EU company works even if Antropic operates in the EU. In the EU they will have/must follow:

  • Lead Supervisory Authority Coordination

  • ​Article 30 Records (RoPA)

  • ​Mandatory DPIA for High-Risk Processing

  • ​Local Judicial Redress

And also they should follow the EU AI act much harder than outside the EU.

[–]jjelin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Holy goalpost moving batman! First your argument was about Chinese vs European privacy laws. Then you switched to data location rules. Now we're talking about the EU AI act. What's next, tax law? Financial regulation? Speech rules? The possibilities for bullshit are endless!

[–]ForgetPreviousPrompt 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I've had to implement CCPA code in a few organizations and because it includes residents of the state of California including this temporarily outside of the state, in practice most of my orgs have just applied the rules to everybody in the US. Overall it's really not that big of a deal to implement.

The bigger issue is that European work and investing culture just aren't really set up for the grind these frontier labs are running right now.

[–]jjelin 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also I designed an important part of the user log storage systems for a little company called Google Cloud. Maybe you've heard of them!

[–]One_Contribution 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Obviously. Im asking how GDPR burdens AI startups? What's the issue?

[–]Ravesoull 0 points1 point  (1 child)

At the very least, user data must be reliably protected, which is a huge drain on budget for an AI startup that already requires significant funding. Furthermore, a significant amount of data must be fed to the AI ​​system and it must be monitored to ensure that no user data ends up in it. I don't know the details or the inner workings, of course, but the fact that there are no other decent AIs in Europe besides Mistral is enough for me

[–]AccomplishedSock7578 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And you assume this is because of gdpr and not because of the limiting factors in EU startup field?

[–]Sea-Presentation-173 0 points1 point  (8 children)

Mmm... mass surveillance and autonomous killer-bots or GDPR.

Such a hard choice.

[–]Ravesoull 0 points1 point  (7 children)

Either the current status of Claude located in the US, but without mass surveillance or a heap of regulations that in the EU stifle AI development, leaving an entire economic EU continent with a single poor gauntlet instead of advanced AI

[–]Sea-Presentation-173 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Ah! an accelerationist, full speed ahead even if it is against a wall.

[–]Ravesoull 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Ah! an label thrower 3000, you have to start writing about abstract walls instead of coming up with a counterargument. Nice

[–]Sea-Presentation-173 0 points1 point  (2 children)

You do not see mass surveillance and autonomous killer-bots as a wall?

[–]Ravesoull 0 points1 point  (1 child)

In the current state, Claude RESIST to implementing mass surveillance. And what’s the point of praying to European AI laws when the same open source DeepSeek can already be integrated into a drone to some extent?

[–]Sea-Presentation-173 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

You might no have seen this then.

They are moving forward with declaring Anthropic as a "supply chain risk" and once declared one, by the Dept of Defense and/or Trump, it would make them a company no-one else can work with. Not only the goverment, but other companies too.

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/5759630-pentagon-designates-anthropic-risk/

- The supply chain risk designation would mean that the DOD’s contractors and subcontractors would be barred from using Anthropic’s services and technology. The designation is typically imposed on foreign adversaries.  

- “Effective immediately, no contractor, supplier, or partner that does business with the United States military may conduct any commercial activity with Anthropic,” Hegseth said in a post on social platform X.

https://x.com/secwar/status/2027507717469049070?s=46

[–]One_Contribution 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Anthropic abides by GDPR for their EU customers, so does the rest...?

[–]Ravesoull 0 points1 point  (0 children)

However, they shouldn't follow the following requirement on the same level as European company must:

  • Lead Supervisory Authority Coordination

  • ​Article 30 Records (RoPA)

  • ​Mandatory DPIA for High-Risk Processing

  • ​Local Judicial Redress

[–]Lalli-Oni 0 points1 point  (3 children)

How is GDPR an issue? Or are you using as an ironic catch-all for other anti privacy initiatives of late?

Edit: sorry see your reply elsewhere. I do t think we agree on the overhead of GDPR. Heck I've worked in a few places here in EU when it was rolled out and it's a tiny development coat.

[–]Ravesoull 0 points1 point  (2 children)

I have answered this already to other redditors. The EU startup should follow GDPR, Chinese startup shouldn't and nobody can compel them to do this. Who has more resources to develop their own AI? Just think

[–]Lalli-Oni 0 points1 point  (1 child)

Sorry, realized and provided an edit after your reply.

Well, customers know which one they'd trust more then.

Why would I pay for Chinese AI as a company if I have sensitive data, or just competitors in China? B2B suppliers make these that much more important.

[–]Ravesoull 0 points1 point  (0 children)

This is very situational. An ordinary user of AI, even in the current context of the importance of privacy, will rather prefer a correct and comprehensive answer from a less private AI over many attempts to extract a good response from a private one. Enterprise users, bound by their corporate confidentiality obligations, must of course put data privacy front and center. But the question is how large that user base actually isin Antropic, and how much revenue their licenses generate compared to regular user subscriptions. And even then, do they really need the level of privacy and leak protection guaranteed by GDPR, or would what's laid out in the Privacy Policy or spelled out in a separate clause of the agreement be sufficient for them?

Reputationally, Anthropic has already done what was required of them and earned a well deserved measure of user trust. But moving into EU jurisdiction won't meaningfully add to that trust, while get a very significant set of new obligations

[–]Due_Mousse2739 0 points1 point  (6 children)

They already operate in EU, so GDPR applies to their customers from there.

[–]Ravesoull 0 points1 point  (5 children)

For European customers. And when they are located in the EU country itself, they will be required to comply with GDPR for citizens and people from other countries as well. Moreover, they will face a ton of other European regulations and high taxes.

[–]Due_Mousse2739 0 points1 point  (4 children)

Long before Anthropic, every major company operates in the EU and is just fine with regulations and taxes. I don't see what the issue is with respecting GDPR. Claude should be able to figure this out right away 😀

Sure, there's more money in the US right now.

[–]Ravesoull 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Operating in the EU and being in the EU jurisdiction are the different things. The OP is asking the second for Claude

[–]Due_Mousse2739 0 points1 point  (2 children)

What do entities like these do?

Google Ireland Limited
Microsoft Ireland Operations Limited.
Apple Distribution International Ltd.
Apple Operations Europe Ltd.
Apple Retail Europe Ltd.

They physically operate in the EU and are legal and taxable entities in the EU.
They are companies owned by the respective American ones, sure.

There is no "Anthropic Europe Ltd."
So, what am I missing?

Not sure where Anthropic gets its funding, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't let them move to EU like they're some guys small company, without some serious cash, so yeah we're just talking theoretically.

[–]Ravesoull 0 points1 point  (1 child)

What is the point and motivation to open Antropic Europe Ltd then? OP proposes the relocation for Antropic to fight against Hegseth and orange idiot, that means to make a full relocation if the US will press on Anthropic to take revenge for disobedience. Child company in the EU won't help them in such case.

[–]Due_Mousse2739 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No, a child company won't mean much. I was just saying that other companies operate and play along EU's rules, and they stay because they got profit. Apple even bends the rules of their own, when pressed.

The point and motivation, per the OP, should be ideological, which, yeah... quite a hard sell to Americans. It would make sense only if the EU made a huge bid on Anthropic and basically "bought" them so they can be Europe's big AI. Quite a hard sell on Europeans!

So, it's basically a fantasy.

[–]infinitefailandlearn 0 points1 point  (0 children)

There would be many barriers for such a move, but regulation is not one of them: blacklisting by government is simply an authoritarian way of regulating.

All the other stuff: compute, talent, market size: granted, those are real obstacles.

[–]flarpflarpflarpflarp 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Claude Moneyyy

[–]Antares_B 0 points1 point  (0 children)

certainly. if not just for the security of their infrastructure and servers...not sure where those are located now, but this abomination will do whatever it wants no matter how illegal and justify it later, or not at all...I wouldn't be surprised if they just seized assets for "national security" purposes.

[–]AdEmotional9991 0 points1 point  (0 children)

They should move to Israel, they're already partnered with Palantir after all.

[–]BadHamsterx[🍰] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

We can confiscate some of the centers their building for us companies in Norway

[–]ReporterCalm6238 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I love this idea and if European leaders would be smart enough they would create the conditions for this to happen

[–]Oz_uha1 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Absolutely! In particular, Berlin. it’s where Anthropic won’t just find talent, but those ultra-rare humans with equally rare ethics and next-level dedication from around the word.

[–]MC897 0 points1 point  (1 child)

How about UK?

[–]Due_Mousse2739 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Anthropic is from Greek for human (άνθρωπος) so obviously yes.

[–]Lucky_Yesterday_1133 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah and pay 20% vat on every GPU lol. Nope. 

[–]the_ghost_is 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes. EU welcomes.

[–]Spacemonk587 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yeah yeah, come here please.

[–]Delmoroth 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I doubt they can. The US government would prevent it since they see the frontier labs as critical national security assets.

That said, it would be pretty funny if they pushed it based on being a supply chain risk. After all if they are that untrusted they certainly are not security assets. Watching the federal government try to have it both ways in court would be amusing (well mostly depressing.... but anyway...)

[–]Lucaslouch 0 points1 point  (0 children)

To Switzerland, it will be easier. But compute power :/

[–]boinkmaster360 0 points1 point  (3 children)

Na maga is dying. Trump admin should go to russia.

[–]Geminatorr 1 point2 points  (1 child)

*Israel 

Trump admin is going to war with Russia soon for Israel 

[–]Spacemonk587 0 points1 point  (0 children)

No need. Tump is bringing Russia to the US.

[–]MaybeLiterally -1 points0 points  (3 children)

Keep in mind that the guy who created openclaw, and that got hired by OpenAi, criticized Europe’s regulatory and labor environment as being too restrictive for fast‑moving AI startups, and this was cited as a key reason he was glad to relocate to the US.

[–]DejongBCN 0 points1 point  (0 children)

And yet he build it in Europe. Didn't stop him. They just did it for the PR of the American worker market. Stupid headline.

[–]AccomplishedSock7578 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Its annoying when the rights of the citizens are protected by law, isnt it? Why cant i hire children in my factory? EU is ruining the manufacturing industry.

[–]One_Contribution -1 points0 points  (0 children)

What is restricting anyone?

[–]Narrow-Belt-5030 -2 points-1 points  (4 children)

100% yes.

Why deal with fascists ?

[–]FlatulistMaster 1 point2 points  (3 children)

Please make sure first that France doesn't get taken over by fascists. It's way too close for comfort right now.

[–]Due_Mousse2739 0 points1 point  (2 children)

Le Pen wears an ankle bracelet these days for embezzlement, iirc. France is tougher than you think.

Americans drool over money and narcissism, you can sell them anything and they'll buy it like marshmallows.

[–]FlatulistMaster 0 points1 point  (1 child)

I think the American experience is broken in so many ways that the life experience of Trump voters can't or shouldn't be simplified to just that.

Life in the US is tough in a way that most Europeans can't understand, and it leads to unbalanced behavior when combined with shitty education and a culture that's always resorted to us vs them thinking.

I'm not American btw, I've just spent a lot of time there.

[–]Due_Mousse2739 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I get it that I'm being blunt and simplistic, but you gotta see it for what it is. It's 80M people that voted for this normalization of vulgarity. It was very intentional. I know it's not everyone in the US.

I've always wanted to visit the US, but now I don't care really - and that's a shame cause it's definitely a beautiful country. But I can't stand the Americans anymore, they're vile, in their talk and in practice.

Again, yes, I know, not everyone, but, Americans, please get your sh*t together cause you're messing up with everyone's life and basically I don't even see a valid reason for that!