Thoughts on Westernization

Is it just me or is westernization one of the worst areas of Vicky 2? (this post is based off of HPM westernization). It goes so far that I have long been thinking about eventually making an HPM submod just to fix it - there's just so much wrong with it and the more I look into it, the more I dislike the system as a whole. --- 7 points and the list is growing, what are your thoughts on westernization and do you have any personal gripes/suggestions yourselves? I'd love to hear you out. As for the list:

1. The system locks you out of the "actual" game for several decades, you just have to sit around and wait until the game starts properly. It's a glorified "lock" on the game executed very badly which leads to less fun overall.Of course uncivs shouldn't just westernize within 5 years and then steamroll the great powers, however...

2. The westernization system is so basic, it would be hard to call it even remotely fun. There's not much between clicking meaningless buttons to minmax westernization progress and collecting meaningless mana points in my opinion. Victoria 2's westernization heavily leans into these pointless, gamey mechanics during westernization and there's not much "flavor" to make the whole experience "palatable".

3. The heavy RNG is an absolute pain --- some events give huge +20% or +10% research modifiers and/or remove -30% research modifiers, BUT have a random chance of firing??? Punishing me for having bad RNG without there being a valid reason? Isolationism/Open borders, the education reform and the abolishment of slavery events are sooooooo critical to westernization and yet there's almost no way to influence when you get them? Why is there a reform system and a decisions system and yet 1 of the reforms isn't to abolish slavery + there are no decisions to speed up westernization besides missionaries/picking a value? Wtf am I supposed to do while playing an unciv? Sit on my butt, do nothing, wait for random events to fire and wait for research points to accumulate???

4. How unrealistic it is - So I just take A FEW reforms - not even all - and I become a 100% modern state? I can just buff my military and neglect any and all education and after I click the button, I am good to go and research just like any other civilized power? Didn't it take Japan until 1920 to become considered an actual great power? Of course, I'm not implying that Japan should only be able to westernize by 1920, BUT what I am implying is that there's NO transition between an unciv and a westernized civ EXCEPT maaaybe the "developing academia" modifier. There should be stages in-between being primitive and fully westernized. IMO short-term goals would be great - so when you start off, you want to get yourself into a safe position, maybe conquer some neighbors and centralize the country via reforms - have reforms/events/decisions that let you create a "healthy" country that can pick reforms more easily in the future. This can mean going from a random tribe with huge research and economic pentalties to a feudal realm with a monarch with some penalties to a centralized state that gets access to "annex vassal" and "weaken aristocracy" decisions or something similar to simulate the accumulation of power in the hands of the government. Opening borders to foreigners should ofc be possible in this stage, but risky. Mid-westernization is where the fun begins and you get westernization-themed event chains, get access to reforms and decisions like "invite foreign experts", "ban slavery", "invite military mission", "import technology" and must deal with the rebels who oppose your reforms. Late westernization is when you clicked the westernization button and can build industry, BUT you still have some negative modifiers that you need to get rid of over time.

5. The way the military is handled. The best way to westernize is to neglect one's own military, since it will just suck anyway against westerners and to put everything into the university/education reforms. Wtf??? Of course there's the conquest RP bonus, however it a. makes no sense. Why would a nation gain research from conquering random land? b. tanks research cuz you are annexing low literacy lands without any intellectuals most of the time which means it's oftentimes a bad strat c. it leads to a non-Victoria 2-ish blobby playstyle where the only goal is to annex as many provinces as possible. It would be much better if unciv nations stayed in their home area, were only able to conquer neighboring territories and westernization was the moment where the nation "opens up" to concepts like imperialism and colonies. As for where all the research should be put, I believe military reforms should be a lot more worthwile - that means much cheaper to purchase and give more lvl 1 and lvl 2 techs as a bonus --- they should thus NOT be bought at the cost of all the other reforms (I'm still thinking of more ways to make them worthwile, so suggestions are appreciated) --- yet nevertheless focusing on them primarily should slow down westernization --- Japan famously focused both on its military AND its industry whilst industrializing (fukoku kyouhei). Honestly, the whole westernization system is messy in of itself. I think it would be wiser if reforms were more "dynamic". As in - become cheaper/more expensive because of many more factors. Government type, foreign advisors inside the government, national industrialization programs, centralization, etc.. Many uncivs historically had decent militaries - sure, worse than a westernized nation's, BUT good enough to repel a small invasion force. In this game, especially later in the game, an unciv's army just melts away especially later in the game against even a small civilized nation's army just because of how military reforms are handled and "static" as in how you can't progess beyond lvl 1 techs even if Europe is at level 5 techs. Sure, uncivs shouldn't have planes and tanks and keep up with westerners, BUT they should lag behind and be semi-formidable opponents. Right now uncivs are pushovers.

6. There's virtually no flavor to influence the westernization speed or anything at all in that matter besides some unimportant trade posts and opium. At most there are some reactionary rebels who desire to roll back some reforms.Since westernization is a huge undertaking that majorly changes society as it was known before in an unciv, wouldn't it make more sense to experience these changes via events while westernizing and also to be presented several "reformist paths" instead of just clicking buttons and not caring about whatever's going on in your nation? For example, Japan famously westernized via a reformist, centralized oligarchy after it deposed an isolationist and weak regime, Siam kept itself together with good, reformist rulers who recognized the dangers that westerners would bring, excelled at diplomacy and centralized power and Ethiopia, as an underdog, prospered despite being hugely inferior, reformed its military and centralized under a strong monarch after a period of warlords. EXPERIENCING the progress via events, decisions - even just generic ones - would go a long way to make playing uncivs fun, wouldn't it?

7. Finally, I wanna see long-lasting effects from the choices taken during westernization. Did you invite too many missionaries? Too bad, now your nation's religion became protestant/catholic! Did you aggressively adopt European practices too much for the bonuses? Ohh well, now your nation is unstable because you neglected the indigenous culture! Have fun struggling to find a national identity! Also, "westernization traps" should be a thing. "An advisor that gives me positive bonuses and lets me get rid of isolationism PLUS I get added to France's sphere? Sounds great!" "Oh no, he's become very powerful and now gives negative modifiers, what should I do? Maybe remove him from his position?" "What do you mean France demands the reinstatement of Joseph-François Lambert?" "Did France just seriously declare an annexation war????" *gets annexed(literally what happened to Madagascar)"Ohh wow, what's this event? European businessmen want to kickstart my industry? Yea sure, the modifiers are good and it will make me able to westernize earlier, I don't see a problem with that" "Oh no, now the wealthy American sugar plantation businessmen have become too powerful! What am I supposed to do?" "There's only 1 choice, I have to fight the businessmen!" "Wtf, a coup and an ultimatum?? Become annexed by America or fight America? gg, I messed up. It's time to restart." *clicks on the getting annexed decision and gets taken back to the Victoria start screen(literally what happened to Hawai'i)

I've been ranting for way too long and I'm not even sure if anyone will read this, haha. In short, I'm shocked that there's been NO posts highligting the issues, NO mods or submods trying to fix westernization, NO interest in the westernization mechanics themselves, BUT lots of people who play uncivs and enjoy it without any complaints? I personally like playing uncivs and taking them from being a backwater wasteland to an industrial powerhouse myself, however every single game I play the jarring issues become more and more apparent. I don't know how much effort making a submod would take, but, with my planning/brainstorming phase coming to a close, I may as well try to fix the problems, any suggestions/critique/help/whatnot would be appreciated obviously