wow. thanks for the info.looks like I wont be purchasing anything from them anytime soon. sorry to hear about your problems. I hope you sort it out to your liking. GOOD LUCK!



'Crewzr :moped: :moped:

 

Ron, be interesting to see the response you get on this one. Slamming PM you've stepped in it.

I've personally never bought any of their items but always thought they had an excellent reputation for quality. They've had a lot of TV time on various bike related shows over the years and of course they begot Roland Sands (personally can't stand his stuff).

Bottom line though is the proof is in the pudding and crap is crap. Sounds like you got a reject and I think they should make good on it.

There's a firm here in Georgia, Hawg Halters, that makes some nice items if you're looking for an alternative for brakes.

Meanwhile :hidesbeh:

 

Rod,

Stating the facts is not slamming Performance Machine. They slammed themselves by allowing an inferior product to reach the market. I'm out $400.00 and I don't want to see another V-Rodder suffer the same loss. If that is wrong then so be it. There is a reason why PM discontinued that product line and I will guarantee you that this is not news to Performance Machine.

This is not a one off situation.

There is an earlier post where I questioned what appeared to be a 3/16" gap. I was hot for the sprocket so I tried to convince myself that I was seeing a reflection in the chrome. I passed on that sprocket and purchased one from another vendor. I specifically asked him if there was a gap between the sprocket teeth and one of the flanges and he told me that there was no gap. There is a 3/16"gap between the sprocket teeth and outboard flange. (see picture below) Fortunately the first vendor sold his PM sprocket before I got back to him. Else I would have been out $800.00.

http://www.1130cc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=338113&highlight=

Scroll to last post and raise the picture and you will see the excessive gap. http://www.1130cc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=59382&highlight=pm+spacer

As for the comp bowl spacer there is another post unrelated to my situation. He used the H-D comp bowl spacer and the belt rubbed of the tire. As I recall he came by his PM sprocket used and therefore he did not have the PM comp bowl spacer. When he acquired the PM comp bowl spacer then he had issues with swing arm clearance.

Would you run a sprocket on which the belt could track over the edge of the sprocket teeth?

Would you run a sprocket that does not properly mesh in the comp bowl?

Would you run a sprocket with a single ball row bearing?

The Performance Machine brake calipers could be the best money can buy but, once I find a turd in the pudding then I'm not going to sort through the rest of the bowl and I'm damn sure not going to pass the bowl to a fellow V-Rodder.

BTW, anyone care to guess how the sprocket teeth are connected to the sprocket hub?

Ron

 

PM was one of the first and has been around longer than most members here. This kind of shIt should not happen from a newcomer, let alone them, who blazed the custom wheel trail decades ago. Hard to believe they stay in business with this kind of customer treatment. It's either an aberration or it's a new mindset. Not sure which, but I wouldn't suck anything up, I would do whatever I had to do to force them into the right thing, including calling the attorney generals office. Make as much noise as you can, out of principal, if nothing else.

rc4man, "stepped in it"?

 

pm was one of the first and has been around longer than most members here. This kind of shit should not happen from a newcomer, let alone them, who blazed the custom wheel trail decades ago. Hard to believe they stay in business with this kind of customer treatment. It's either an aberration or it's a new mindset. Not sure which, but i wouldn't suck anything up, i would do whatever i had to do to force them into the right thing, including calling the attorney generals office. Make as much noise as you can, out of principal, if nothing else.

Rc4man, "stepped in it"?

TwinOaks,

I apologize for my remark. I was so mad that I could not sort out that you actually sided with me. I don't often apologize but, I was wrong to be sarcastic to you.

Ron

 

Wow that really sucks bro!!!

 

I have posted in the past on this forum my issues with PM. In 2009 I purchased wheels, rotors, and sprocket to match. I sent the sprocket back for incomplete anodizing. Once i got the replacement weeks later, I found the rear wheel, spacers, comp bowl, sprocket and rotor did not line up correctly. I ended up, with the help of my brother (machinist), re-engineering the whole thing. I ended up using ceramic bearings, and had new spacers machined to get the wheel and brake rotor in the proper alignment. You could not give me anything made by PM.

 

I can't comment on the actual construction details for the PM pulley but a common technique for belt pulleys is that the teeth are part of the hub, either cast or machined in directly, then the flanges are shrunk fit or slip fit on a turned diameter at which time they are staked/peened/riveted/screwed in position to hold them depending on the manufacturer.

In some cases if they are machined or cast the flange on one side will be made during fabrication and be part of the main part and only the opposite side flange will be attached as stated above. OR not, as I'm sure you've noticed the engine pulley is flanged on one side only. That personally worries me but it seems to work.

I've heard of the back side flange of some stock HD pulleys coming loose and the owners tapping retaining screw holes to pull it back together.

Is there a possibility of that being the issue with the PM pulley. Could be not installed all the way and if thats the case if the flange were all the way against the theeth would the gap still be wide enough for the belt?

I only made the slam comment relative to the opinion of others who hold PM in some near holy regard. As I said crap is crap, who ever makes it and I would raise some serious complaints with them.

 

I can't comment on the actual construction details for the PM pulley but a common technique for belt pulleys is that the teeth are part of the hub, either cast or machined in directly, then the flanges are shrunk fit or slip fit on a turned diameter at which time they are staked/peened/riveted/screwed in position to hold them depending on the manufacturer.

In some cases if they are machined or cast the flange on one side will be made during fabrication and be part of the main part and only the opposite side flange will be attached as stated above. OR not, as I'm sure you've noticed the engine pulley is flanged on one side only. That personally worries me but it seems to work.

I've heard of the back side flange of some stock HD pulleys coming loose and the owners tapping retaining screw holes to pull it back together.

Is there a possibility of that being the issue with the PM pulley. Could be not installed all the way and if thats the case if the flange were all the way against the teeth would the gap still be wide enough for the belt?

I only made the slam comment relative to the opinion of others who hold PM in some near holy regard. As I said crap is crap, who ever makes it and I would raise some serious complaints with them.

Rod,

I'm a machinist in all fields including Tool & Die. I built the first extrusion die that CertainTeed plastics squirt PVC plastic through and came out with vinyl house siding. I designed and built specialized machines for CertainTeed Plastics Tool & Die division and their competitor Cincinati Milacron just to mention a few.

I have produced HTD belt drive systems. Shown below is the 8mm HTD belt drive system I manufactured back when I was racing super karts. Each tooth count had it's own unique tooth profile created with 12 pairs of matching arcs otherwise known as an involute curve. The sprockets without flanges are two piece so that the driven sprocket could be changed without removing the rear axle.

I did not have a 4th axis at that time so I built my own pneumatically controlled indexing head. Multiple teeth were cut at each index position. One pneumatic valve retracted the index detent pin and stroked the indexing cylinder. The index detent pin also served as a spool valve that controlled the index actuating cylinder. That is how the mechanism was timed.

I'm one of very few people that has successfully developed a perfect meshing high volume roots blower rotor profile. Those who have the design do not share it. You can turn the internet upside down and you will not find the engineering files for the high volume roots rotor design. When you arrive at the Epicycloid and Hypocycloid exercise then you will immediately see the inefficiency of the resulting three lobe meshing profile.

My life experiences more than qualifies me for being a judge of another persons engineering and finished product. I'm not bragging. I merely want to dispel any conclusion that I'm a rube from Kansas that can't pour piss out of a boot. This is not a result of being improperly assembled or having been used. If you would like to inspect the sprocket then I will cut it in half and send you one of the pieces. Just send $200.00 to me@yahoo.com Would anyone else like to inspect the other half? Just send $200.00 to me@yahoo.com

Believe me I would much rather have my $400.00 in my pocket then being compelled to issue this alert. This alert was issued in the interest of fellow V-Rodders and it was not intended to defame Performance Machine.

 

I'm impressed as I too spent the first half of my career as a machinist, the later half as a mechanical designer. I can see that you have a full understanding of the processes and requirements.
Need to get together sometime and talk shop over a nice single malt or bourbon.

 

Rod,

Love to visit with you but, over ice tea.

Ron

 

Oh boy its on now ;-)

 

Coming from a limited machining background I noticed that CNC has made "machinists" like basecoat clearcoat has made painters. There is something to be said for what is produced from a CNC mill or lathe today BUT there is something about the part that you make when you become one with that very old machine. We had two Bridgeports in our shop one was from 1931 the newer one was from 1939. Both very good machines. Know of a few import things that have gone bad in a few years. Sorry for the sidebar.
Jerico trans here in Concord NC uses a 80 year old machine for cutting its gears. The owner said yep there are new machine out there that can do just as good a job. In other words this one is awesome for what we do.
I have personally noticed that mass produced or repetitive production has garnered many imperfections. With only spot check, 100% quality control is impossible.

 

Nas3car,

I'm old school. I served a three year apprentice ship before becoming a journeyman machinist in 1966. You name it and I have ran it from drill presses to lathes and from Morey manual profilers to Kearney & Trecker die mills. I am a machinist in the truest sense of the word.

Machines are like people. Take care of them and they will take care of you. The shop I served my apprenticeship in was owned by a man that would fire your ass if he ever caught you placing your foot on his machinery. At the beginning of each shift you applied a fresh coat of Moly Coat grease on the slide ways. After the dinner break you applied another fresh coat of Moly Coat grease.

Paul Blanchat founded Blanchat Machine Co. in 1939 and his company received several awards for being the top contractor in Wichita, KS. After Paul's death the company went through several changes in management and finally went into foreclosure. His son was my age and he had no interest in the company. Paul was a friend even after I had out grown his company. His death sadden me and the death of his company had an emotional impact on me.

Nothing is forever and I'm now facing that reality. Live your life like there is no tomorrow.

Ron

 

I ran into this a few years back. I didn't have the glue problem, but the single row cheapo bearing just doesn't give the pulley much support. I had the pocket in the pulley machined deeper for the stock double row bearing but decided not to use it. i was going to make a clock out of it but never got around to it.