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[–]thejoeporkchop 137 points138 points  (22 children)

I do wish any other youtuber was the one leading discussions on this. Youll have people auto disagree with anything zesty says because of who he is. If uncle dane was the one advocating for qp then way less people would be disagreeing.

[–]FlameThrowerFIM 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I know Big Joey made a video about the Anti-Aircraft Cannon and there are a few smaller YouTubers making videos about TF2Classified, but yeah, agreed.

[–]Commaser 53 points54 points  (10 children)

Didnt uncle dane say when meet your match dropped that in 5 years tf2 will be known for it's competitive mode? Do you actually expect someone like him to advocate for removing casual from the game?

[–]Entire_Percentage221[S] 67 points68 points  (0 children)

He did but he did admit he was wrong about it so he’s willing to take a hit and ask for something that’ll help

[–]EngineerTwig249 35 points36 points  (4 children)

To be fair, that wasn't the craziest idea in early 2016 before MyM. CSGO and Dota 2 were massive esports, Overwatch had big esports discussions before the launch of the game, and the devs had been talking with all of the big members of the competitive community

[–]DemomanExploerTM 4 points5 points  (2 children)

I honestly dont know how you can look at TF2 and think that it has any chance of being a proper competitive scene.

[–]EngineerTwig249 13 points14 points  (0 children)

I agree with you which is why the rule sets for competitive is very important.

Smash bros is the obvious and overused example, but it applies perfectly to TF2. There are items, 8 player free for all, smash balls, and massive stages with hazards. These are clearly haha hehe funny things in a casual game that don't work in a competitive esport. TF2 has a competitive scene, but similar to smash bros, has its own ruleset and plays very differently from vanilla TF2.

Valve wanted the competitive mode to be a reflection of the casual, vanilla TF2 with all of the items, classes, and modes which is why it failed. Not because TF2 can't be competitive, but that competitive is different from casual.

[–]ScoutNerf_France 0 points1 point  (0 children)

It does have a moderate competitive scene as far as I know, it’s just largely unofficial.

[–]JayManty -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It was a crazy idea. The TF2 comp scene literally never took off despite existing for 7 years prior to MYM. TF2 tournaments were literally so low value and miniscule that there was at least one time when they were literally kicked out of insomnia because the final was taking too long and the organizers didn't care

[–]cloneviperhehe 21 points22 points  (0 children)

Yeah he did

[–]Kezif 6 points7 points  (0 children)

uncle dane was an example of popular youtuber. It not necessary supposed to be him, duh

[–]DemomanHammyBoy0 4 points5 points  (0 children)

God forbid somebody can change their opinions after being wrong about something 10 years ago. Do yall hear yourselves

[–]AlanOwl 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Wow, you're only like the 800,000th person to bring this up whenever dane is mentioned to try and discredit him for some reason, even though he's literally come out and said that he was wrong. You clearly know all about "people like him" and stand by every view you held 10 years ago, and have never changed your mind about anything.

Yeah, I do actually expect someone who cares about improving the game to advocate for something that improves the game, but maybe that's just me.

[–]maps-and-potatoes 6 points7 points  (3 children)

not just that; if i say i disagree with what he says, i will get dunked by others who will automatically defend anything he says when it's related to "casual is bad" in any way. Like...

i could say that TF2c isn't as easy as he says to get into a match, because...

  • Depending on your region the number of servers with a correct ping might be lower, and connecting to a server can take REALLY long, and you might have a lot of lag spikes afterward or get disconnected.
  • Depending on what gamemodes/maps you are interested in, you might not find a server with the gigantic pool of 2fort. The search could be optimized because you can't filter out some maps, for example. You can filter in.
  • Unlike what Zetsy said, you can absolutely end up alone on a server that was full when you joined X minutes ago. People can leave, even if it's not casual. That's an argument in bad faith because of the way he presented it; if he had said it differently, I wouldn't complain about that one.

All in all, i can connect faster in a TF2 casual match than in TF2c, and yes, it's mostly related mostly to the resources behind both, server-wise. I don't say that my arguments are as hard as cement, just that people don't even leave open discussion.

The other problem is that a map usually stays for way too long on a server because the votes either don't come as fast or for other reasons, so you might want to keep the lobby but not the map, and you are unable to do so for 30 to 40 more minutes in some worst cases. It's also the case in community servers in TF2.

A lot of critics can and have been given to TF2c unrelated to that hotpot discussion I mentioned at the start of the comment, so I don't need to write them again; that's not the subject.

[–]Lazarus_Thirst 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I'd like to point out that Zesty simply explains how he experienced TF2C compared to casual. He (and myself as well) simply enjoy the system much more in practice. You can name a handful of things that are worse and they would be valid, but it's just so damn refreshing to join a vanilla server in TF2c with no waiting, short games, empty servers etc. Because that's how it went for me, joining servers has been consistently solid so far. Therefore I can't help but agree with Zesty here, I think this works far better than casual. Sorry to hear your experience was worse than ours. Hope you'll give it another shot and you might be more in luck then.

[–]Vortrep 4 points5 points  (1 child)

The queue times in casual were never necessarily a problem, the problem is and always has been the disruptive nature of casual mode.

[–]maps-and-potatoes 4 points5 points  (0 children)

you say that, but I have seen a lot of people trying to show how long it takes them to join a match in casual VS anything else. Some video on hand

[–]ScoutNerf_France 1 point2 points  (0 children)

Doesn’t Uncle Dane prefer casual? I recently watched the review he made of it a year after it came out where he compared the two systems, and he thought casual was overall better.

[–]Engineerpoepen61 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I and some others hate zesty's guts

Personally I just play TF2 because it is fun. That's it, tried classified realized my favorite weapons weren't in the game and left

Even though it's not happening, I hope for the mvm update to add new weapons, they don't need to be anything special

[–]cloneviperhehe 5 points6 points  (1 child)

but competitive is the future of tf2! /jk

[–]SpyAsakari 4 points5 points  (0 children)

I mean, it would've been if it was 8vs8 or larger and wasn't a lazy copy paste of CSGO

[–]Accurate_Action4299 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

it wouldnt be better because uncle dane is a racist

[–]Limp-Assistance9974 -4 points-3 points  (0 children)

I'm guessing most other youtubers want to make videos about the topics they're interested in. That's usually gameplay and content like classes/weapons/maps. The matchmaking system is like TF2's parking lot, it doesn't affect the broad experience much so most people just aren't that interested in analyzing it

[–]Commaser 105 points106 points  (13 children)

How much do you bet some idiot will comment "oh no he hates tf2 classic now hes satan" without even watching the video lol

[–]ThorstiBoi 31 points32 points  (1 child)

A lil ranty but agree. I miss just playing the game for however long I want and not having to wait to join a server beyond the main server connection. Havent looked back at base tf2

Hell I even hosted some maps on my own pc, server filled up within minutes

[–]Spydefectsmile 1 point2 points  (0 children)

I mean it's on his secondary channel meant for rants/VODs

[–]Soldiersacafen 24 points25 points  (22 children)

i live under a rock. who is this zesty jesus person?

[–]EngineerBoomerfan00 45 points46 points  (4 children)

Guy who made a YouTube career on perpetually complaining about the same three things, saying weird shit and acting petulant(feel free to peruse the pinned comment on that too)

[–]Miss PaulingMightyGoodra96 20 points21 points  (0 children)

That's a lot of loli content. Like... a lot.

[–]DarkRorschach 11 points12 points  (0 children)

he's borderline pedophilic with the way he describes little girls in anime.

[–]Aggravating_Can532 1 point2 points  (1 child)

Playing up being mad in a video game is petulant to you? Pretty big difference between playing up being mad like with zesty or old jerma/star vids and actual childish belligerence like DSP or LTG. There's a clear distinction of self-awareness. The weird shit though yeah. TF2 is full of this shit sadly :/

[–]EngineerBoomerfan00 -1 points0 points  (0 children)

Well tbf I did say acting petulant and not being petulant, yelling "He can't play the game anymore because he keeps beating me!" as a bit is still acting childish. Based on the amount of shit he talked in his Discord afterwards tho idk how much acting he was doing

[–]thejoeporkchop 12 points13 points  (2 children)

A controversial tf2 youtuber. Hes been accused before of being transphobic/bigoted. Not sure how true any of it is but its a common opinion people have of him. In terms of tf2 hes well known for his critiques about the workshop and new cosmetics.

[–]EntertainmentVast401 20 points21 points  (0 children)

He’s publically called people slurs, on top of having very strange opinions as to what actually counts as a slur. 

He made his personal life much more private after apologizing for being caught, so “we don’t know if he actually changed as a person or not” + “only major tf2 youtuber with a spine” is the combo making him controversial. 

On a much, much shallower level he’s also not the most well-kept person, at least on stream, which i’m sure factors in. 

[–]DarkRorschach -1 points0 points  (0 children)

he is also very... very racist

[–]Demomaniamonaphone1 15 points16 points  (1 child)

Contrarian who is very much like the opposite of a Valve dickrider and has a distaste for TF2's current state. Apparently he uses to say bad shit but so did people like Dane and the others. For some reason reddit hates him. I don't like his vibes but he makes a lot of good points.

[–]EngineerSteveCraftCode 2 points3 points  (0 children)

He is basically "the person you don't like made a good point"

[–]Osvaldatore 18 points19 points  (7 children)

Someone who dares to dislike the current state of the game (that's illegal and he needs to be mauled to death)

[–]Complete-Iron-3238 17 points18 points  (4 children)

Weird how zesty stans gloss over the part about him being a lolicon and a transphobe

[–]Osvaldatore -2 points-1 points  (3 children)

"his opinion on X is invalidated because he has a bad opinion on Y and Z", and for the record I am not subbed to Zesty anywhere

[–]PyroThe86thplayer 9 points10 points  (0 children)

gang I don't think having a sexual attraction to children and wanting other people dead because they're a minority are JUST "bad opinions"....

[–]Complete-Iron-3238 5 points6 points  (0 children)

No I agree with a lot of (not all) his complaints about TF2

He's just an insufferable twat and acts like things are way worse than they are, because his audience responds to that because they want to be angry 

[–]SoldierNoahnoah55 5 points6 points  (0 children)

Bro that's not an opinion that's pedophilia

[–]EngineerFunkyyMermaid -1 points0 points  (0 children)

TF2 content creator who mostly talk about overarching aspects of the game rather than specific classes or gameplay. A lot of people don't like him tho because he's a bigot who acts like he's better than everyone else

[–]PyroGamesofmax -5 points-4 points  (0 children)

A very controversial tf2uber.

His content is basically just whinefests about all the problems said a million times by everyone else, he has said some very controversial bigoted things, and pretty much no one likes him. Hell most tf2ubers don’t even talk about him or interact with him, even if they do it’s in some sort of negative or indirect context.

[–]CaioXG002 26 points27 points  (10 children)

oh no he hates tf2 classic now hes satan

[–]ScoutEmirmikE 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Except he doesn't

[–]Shotgun_Difference 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Replies apparently can't see obvious sarcasm

[–]One-Second-4587 -5 points-4 points  (6 children)

Bro didn't even watch the video

[–]MedicIts_Time_OC 26 points27 points  (2 children)

bro didnt even read the other comments

[–]One-Second-4587 -3 points-2 points  (1 child)

How does the other comments change what the video is actually about ?

[–]CaioXG002 8 points9 points  (0 children)

For clarification, I was referencing this comment here, the joke worked better shortly after this topic was made because I made my literally one minute after that one (right now it just shows "1 hour ago" on both, tho, sadly)

I would like to add, I don't think it's that unreasonable that you missed one comment, tho, but, like, my comment too was obviously a joke, right? "now hes satan" is so silly to say, lol.

[–]maps-and-potatoes 3 points4 points  (1 child)

it was a /s comment without the /s, common

[–]One-Second-4587 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Oh i see, wooshed myself there

[–]No_Armadillo_6856 10 points11 points  (0 children)

Meet your match update is the worst thing to ever have happened to Team Fortress 2. And I'm afraid the whole thing happened only because Valve thought they had to copy Overwatch.

Also agree that there are just way too many maps in the vanilla game. Many of them are garbage and don't even visually or thematically fit to the style of TF2. The playerbase is too fragmented. The default settings on the servers are worse than in community servers. No rtv, no nextmap, no nominate, no admins who ban cheaters and hackers, no sense of community, no team selection, no spectating, no vote scramble, no sprays.

[–]DemomanTuzzeee 37 points38 points  (8 children)

He was telling the same 1 statement long idea for 15 minutes

[–]Entire_Percentage221[S] 31 points32 points  (3 children)

Yea that is true with some praise sprinkled in but this was more on the unscripted side and that tends to happen

[–]One-Second-4587 18 points19 points  (1 child)

It doesn't matter how many times he says the same thing over and over, some idiot will find a way to call him a bigoted moron. Its a vicious cycle 

[–]ScoutLeoTheBirb -1 points0 points  (0 children)

It’s because he’s an antisocial prick with the worst fanbase I’ve ever seen.

[–]Demomantf2_demo_2004 -2 points-1 points  (1 child)

gotta drag out the video to fit more ads in it

[–]Accurate_Action4299 3 points4 points  (0 children)

content creator makes video longer than 8 minutes

[–]Shotgun_Difference 8 points9 points  (0 children)

Sir another truth nuke has hit the tf2 subrredit

[–]BusenlolxD 14 points15 points  (0 children)

Is a good video. He is right here.

[–]MedicPK-Mittenspy2703 3 points4 points  (0 children)

Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know (not really) Just Made a Great Point

[–]Doktor_Obvious 2 points3 points  (0 children)

yea i wish we had quickplay back. and valve servers in the server browser. goldrush and classified are both so much more fun than regular tf2.

[–]Dabbers_ 5 points6 points  (3 children)

Why do people always care so much about his opinion? He's just some asshole, form your own opinions for once.

[–]TargetTechnical2982 15 points16 points  (0 children)

He just explains how old system worked and thinks it was better. Do you mean I have to hate quickplay to have my own opinion?

[–]Entire_Percentage221[S] 8 points9 points  (1 child)

The whole reason I agreed this is to get a discussion going, is only he allowed to like quickplay? Cus that’s what it feels like

[–]Anabiter 2 points3 points  (0 children)

It's impossible to get an actual good discussion going with Zesty because people are upset at him over retarded shit and refuse to hold other tf2bers to the same standard for some reason, like you'll see people complain he said transphobic shit, even though others have said similar stuff or were racist instead (people call zesty racist for some reason even though all he did was quote the boondocks in like 2015 or something lol). You also have the pedophile lolicon shit which is entirely based off his bad taste in 'uoh' jokes with the sobbing emoji and him playing blue archive or something which is just comedic to me at this point to have such vitriol to call him a 'pedophile' over.

On top of this he's unable to be given the same leeway as others, Solarlight apologized for being Racist in 2016, and everyone forgave him but Zesty apologized for being Transphobic but it wasn't enough for some people for some reason. People just choose to be angry as him as a scapegoat in the TF2ber community since it's easy to hate him and you'll always find someone somewhere who hates him for the same stupid reasons. It's one thing to dislike him if his opinion on tf2 differs from you but these 'discussions' never work like that because everytime someone mentions a point he makes that they like someone brings up "erm he's a bigot" or the like. On top of this you can't really say you agree with his points, or argue like i currently am without ending up being called a bigot or something yourself.

Zesty is very abrasive but clearly cares more about TF2 than he should which goes into his rants opinions and videos. It's a different approach to the 'safe and suggestion' based videos others make where instead of saying "oh yeah tf2 is still playable haha but maybe could be better" it turns into "it's inexcusable the game is treated like it is after all these years, especially during the horrific bot crisis" and he's very vocal. He makes a lot of great points in his videos.

[–]PyroXurkitree1 3 points4 points  (1 child)

mp_scrambleteams_auto 1 mp_scrambleteams_auto_windifference 2 mp_maxrounds 0 mp_timelimit 45 mp_forceautoteam 0 mp_allowspectators 1 tf_weapon_criticals 0 tf_use_fixed_weaponspreads 1

[–]Pangobon 7 points8 points  (0 children)

Lost me on tf_weapon_criticals 0

[–]FlameThrowerFIM 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I must admit I didn't even notice the search engine thing until Zesty pointed it out. I was too busy blowing people up as Heavy and throwing bricks as Scout lol.

[–]Immediatetaste 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I agree with everything Zesty said in this video and still find him a massive retard trying to make an ennemy in his head no matter what.

I've been watching this guy for years because again, he brings absolute real point when it was needed back in 2022 but each videos he make, he seems more interested into proving that he was right all along more than actually defending his points.

It's been 4 years dude, i think you made a big enough community who believe you, stop with the weird voice "oh no, i'm the strawman characther, look at me twisting Zesty words and opinions." That shit happens to everyone and there not reason to push everyone in the fear of taking in on of them.

[–]Theodore_Dudenheim 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Yes, you can keep playing on the same server unless the server randomly changes map after you join, you only play 1 round of payload and don't get to play on defense/attack side next, the server shuts down or everyone leaves. But yes, you can keep playing on the same server...

[–]HeavyLiquidGadget 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Neato filler

[–]DarkRorschach -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

im so sick of this guy bitching about literally everything

[–]AlekGold18 -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

>"Bro this is how quickplay was"

>looks inside

>it's pre-quickplay tf2

I swear to god, this is how TF2 was pre-quickplay with the server browser which has always been better than both QP and Casual combined

[–]IEatRawSalt -1 points0 points  (0 children)

annnnd now it's time to leave the subreddit for a week

[–]EngineerDiam0ndTalbot -3 points-2 points  (0 children)

I'm not giving him my time nor my engagement. Fuck zesty jesus and fuck people who keep parading him around.

[–]AlanOwl -4 points-3 points  (2 children)

I don't understand how joining via the server browser in tf2c is any more of a guarantee that the game won't end 15 seconds after you get there vs. casual. He also talks about how he hates "being interrupted" when the match ends, like matches on tf2c don't also end and the map changes.

Like, if I join a server in tf2c, it's just as likely that I could just happen to be joining at the end of the match, and it could be about to end. 🤷‍♂️

With the example he shows at 10:50, does he just pretend like he has to leave now that the match is over? Literally just sit tight for 10 more seconds and you can keep playing after the map vote. Am I missing something?

[–]MedicLuigiBrosNin 5 points6 points  (1 child)

He also talks about how he hates "being interrupted" when the match ends, like matches on tf2c don't also end and the map changes.

In casual, matches are interrupted every 6 to 20 minutes, and you have to wait for the whole server to vote, change map, reload the server regardless of map selected and wait on the preround timer before playing.
In tf2c or quickplay, you play for up to 45 minutes or more if you extended the current map, a reload is done only once and with no preround timer. The problem is not that there are interruptions, the problem is that there are frequent, useless interruptions. There's also other problems regarding the matchmaker (eg. rebalances having to wait for the matchmaker).

Like, if I join a server in tf2c, it's just as likely that I could just happen to be joining at the end of the match, and it could be about to end. 🤷‍♂️

The frequency at which you get interrupted in casual is at best more than twice that of quickplay (in payload), with each interruption wasting 4 times as much your time at worst.

Literally just sit tight for 10 more seconds and you can keep playing after the map vote. Am I missing something?

With map vote, server loading and the preround timer, it's minutes of waiting, not 10 seconds.

Regardless of that, the interruptions you get every match are imposed for no valid reason and they stop you from playing.

Imagine you're playing minecraft, but every 10 minutes you have to wait 1 minute where you can do nothing but stare at your screen for no reason. Saying "just wait, you can keep playing in a bit" is surely a solution for a problem that doesn't need to be there.

Hope this clarifies what you didn't understand :)

[–]Roebloz 0 points1 point  (0 children)

Also people have gotten used to leaving the moment matches end in Casual, leading to mostly-empty servers after one game, and sure, they'll fill back up, but usually by the end of the second or third round.