As someone mentioned earlier, Addams Family comes to mind as something that would likely sell incredibly well if remade despite the huge past sales. Add in Godzilla - someone at Stern has said it's approaching "best selling pin ever" numbers, yet still commands a decent price on the used market. Markets are a funny thing to gauge, which reinforces the first thing you said - the wrong title might sound awesome in theory and flop in sales reality.

White Water with:

Updated Trough = Win
Improved Bigfoot Fur = Win
Reengineered Subway = Win
Reinforced Ramp-to-Ramp Connections = Win
Better Supported Boulder Mountains = Win
Balanced Rules = Win

Sans Topper = Loss

Well if they do this title it will be cheaped out on for sure. No fur on bigfoot all plastic. Video topper no real topper.

The tooling costs on WH20 make me think its just off the table honestly. Are we willing to pay $13k+ for Whitewater (or any of these games for that matter)? You gotta pop the hood and work on some of these 90 B/W games to understand how much crap they were putting into them. Bryan will spend millions on modernizing WPC, tooling, upgrading a bunch of stuff we want, parts, building it and the games will end up playing worse than the originals anyway (that are cheaper).

GTF, Hot Wheels, Barry Os are way simpler and cheaper made games than anything coming out of B/W in the 90s. WCS is $10k minimum in 2026 unless Bryan is willing to lose millions on the game. And maybe he is.

White Water doesn't have as much in it as many other WPC games. The ramps really are what make up the difference in having fewer components. If you get wholesale pricing and economies of scale, you could make a nice White Water for a competitive price.

My thoughts on "The 7":
I would imagine AP doesnt want to get in the weeds with licensing so ...

Theatre of Magic
Cirqus Voltaire
TOTAN
Getaway
White Water?
WCS94?
Fish Tales?

The real money maker would be TAF if they can secure the license. So if there's one to throw down on it would be that, especially because the BOM is cheaper than TZ, and TZ has three separate licenses to secure.

I hope they pull it off, but its a bold plan I'm just sayin.

This is like 80% of the metal parts on TAF (I left a few on the playfield). These 90s games are just built different man. 4 flippers, 3 magnets, 5 pops, 2 motors, pretty large molded plastic parts for the bookcase, the hand etc etc. And yeah TAF is probably one of the lower BoM games from the heydey early 90s era? AfM and MM were the low hanging fruit as they are much simpler and cheaper with way less made.

Modernising these games then trying to build and sell them profitably is not going to be easy.
IMG_4629 (resized).JPEG

More like Weed Wacer & The Derpass kids. The fuck is this garbage?

Delete that DankGPT from your phone immediately. Thank you.

IMG_1397.jpeg

WCS is a fun game for a while. But really only 5-6 shots. That game would be a tough sell at today’s prices

I'm just hoping the new AP hires a graphic designer ASAP. The AI logo they are using on all these press releases is absolutely terrible. Imagine that on your back glass.

You're not really getting much of an economy of scale on 500-1000 units. Whitewater was over 7,000 units originally. THAT is an economy of scale.

When it comes to "reimagining" BW games I'd rather see modern takes on 80s classics like Flash Gordon, Blackout, Comet, High Speed, Centaur, Xenon . . . . .

I'm fine with remakes if the quality is there, but a lot of games just people suggest just wont sell. CCr seemed like a no brainer along with MBr. I along with a lot of other people who have been around for a while were familiar with these games. I didn't realize until it was remade how many people never saw a monsterbash. Go back to the archives and look at ads from early 2020 before the covid jump. I bought a huo standard for 5k. The guy sold it to me because it was boring. When I sold it I got 5600 because everyone I called said they played it and it got boring. Same happened with CCr. I guess my point is just because its rare its a fun game. I just had a Cirqus Voltaire and its still sucks.

Personally, what i would like, is to see updated games like they did with high speed and Getaway or pinbot and Jackpot. Keep 90% of the core game there but make the game better. I would love a fishtales or wh20 with more objectives.

Sorry for the long post. At the shop getting my car fixed and I am bored.

I wonder what amount of production remakes would take to make these economically viable.

1,000 seems to be the sweet spot at these prices.

I’ve got a MBrLE, think they did 1200 of those. It’s a beauty.

I think I recall paying about $8k-$8500 for MBrLE and AFMrLE

CCr LE $10k ish?

Ended up selling the AFM long ago.

I’ve got a better than new restored WH20. Paid $8k 12 yrs ago from Mike Dallas. He called it “red water” because it cost him so much to restore and lost money on it

I don’t know about the appetite for $11k -$13k re imagined remakes these days, especially in big numbers.

But that’s true with most NIB games today with some exceptions like Spooky and next level HP

Just thankful for the options though.

It’d be interesting to consider Adam’s Family but without the movie licensing. Either go with the TV show, some comic book style version (was there a cartoon?) or even use the current Netflix spin off show Wednesday.

The New Yorker. One panel black and white.

LTG : )

Great interview.

Makes me glad I'm part of Team AP !

LTG : )

The sweet spot on any game is around $10K and have options for more $$$ but it keep it in the affordable world. You could have levels like fairly original remakes like they did with MMr standard...you want basically original games with some updated mechs and code but little upgrades cost more. That was close to STern Pro prices...then go from there.

Smart play for AP. Better than Dutch going for JPOP over and over and needing to fill their banks with basically new games on old never completed designs. This seems like just updating older designs and more manageable as a way to build games with ready demand (if affordable).

Its a pretty freakin' complicated financial situation equation. There are so many costs in making pinball.

I am sick of all these lame designer/owner interviews. Give us a deep dive with the bean counters! Spill the beans on costs and economics of pinball!

Payroll alone - quick google says one bedroom apt in Benton is ~$1000 vs $1600 in Palatine.

A few complicated vacuum molds or molded parts on a game and you might have sell 50-100 more games just to break even and pay for those. Man who knows.

If you’re going to do that, just make a new game. 20,000 Addams owners don’t need the same game reskinned. They might consider an all new game.

Crazy idea: License Addams Family Values (if possible). Many Addams owners would be giddy to have an all new sequel game.

Whatever they pick as a title, please don't use a Mirco PF.

And no 3D PF sculptures.

TOTAN
TZ
CV
Joust

I noticed a lot of us are hyped for 90's , remakes.

Remaking the 90's "A-Listers" is safe, but reimagining the 80's classics is bold. It appeals to the purists who love the art and the modern players who want a game they won't "beat" in fifteen minutes.

Why "Reimagining" Beats "Remaking" for 80's Games

Ruleset Depth: Most 80's games have simple "hit the blinking light" logic. A reimagined version keeps the iconic art but adds modern code, deep wizard modes, and LCD integration.

Reliability vs. Soul: You get the nostalgic "clack" of the drop targets without the 40-year-old board failures and crispy wiring.

The "Retro-Cool" Factor: Games like Centaur, Fathom, or Quicksilver have some of the best art in pinball history. Seeing those aesthetics paired with modern lighting (RGB LEDs) and high-fidelity sound is a dream for many collectors.

You are?

Awesome!!

TotAN is Pedretti, already licensed out by Planetary
TZ is licensed to CGC, unless they want to sell their TZ parts stockpile to AP and let them do it.

CV is available, but do enough people REALLY want CV? I literally finished the game with Join the Cirqus the FIRST time I ever played it (having just bought one in the 90s). Immediately lost interest.

I don't see Joust being financially feasible for such a limited game.

I was never into this idea or thought there was much of a market for it….but now that we’ve had TNA & Pulp Fiction in the modern space, if done really really well, this could be cool.

I know lower prices isn’t very feasible in the NIB pinball space, but if a USA built updated 80s game could be released at a price less than a Stern Pro, it could possibly work.

Doesn’t take as many beans in Benton to build these games does it.

Chicago? The pinball manufacturing hub. Weather higher costs and high taxes. Why?

Excellent start getting Lloyd! Makes me think they might know what they are doing

Just listened to part of the Cary Hardy interview with Bryan and Ron.

I think Bryan just gave away game #1, if not then def #2

He said Cary would really like it. Being a fellow redneck, it’s a gonna be WHITEWATER boys!

Fits Bryan’s profile.

Well since not everyone was thrilled to hear my thoughts in this thread, I figured I'd donate my next post to just sharing Bryan's words from the Cary Hardy interview. These are key delivery promises and deadlines from in the interview dated Jan 27, 2026:

"we are going to have game one out this year. Hopefully, ... I would think by end of Q2, Q3 time frame. ... Yes, it will be a Bally Williams what we call reimagined game."

"I'm hoping by the end over the next 60 days, we'll kind of have our IP portfolio sort of set up for the next couple of years."

"I think by end of Q3, I mean we'll have game one out um and we'll be on the way to to game two being released and then that's probably going to be another um remake or reimagined. We'll probably have actually more. We'll have kind of a dual strategy there. That'll be really interesting. But and then right after that, hopefully we have our first licensed um original IP coming out. um you know in '27"

"then on the other line at the same time, we're running a new, you know, call it every year, 15 months, have a new uh a new original um or licensed game, you know, out um that's a new piece of IP. So, I think it's so it's two titles a year, right? I mean, roughly. And people are like, there's no way you can make two titles a year. Well, it's actually, you know, it's not that hard."

I thought the interview was excellent. New Owner comes off very genuine and has an obvious knack for business and manufacturing. Looking forward to seeing what they can do.

It's all relative. If BoF and Spooky can successfully do it with only 500-1,000 units of a newly-designed game, AP can certainly do it with a "reimagined" model. The cost savings and price difference can come from not reinventing what works, utilizing PPS licensing, and doing everything else as efficiently as possible while still honoring the original game.

An example that I'd have fun discussing (and most people probably wouldn't care about) is:

Does AP need to use lamp sockets, single LED boards, or the largest LED boards possible to be successful with a remake? Lamp sockets are authentic and original but probably more costly; single LED boards feel efficient cost wise, but probably inefficient to connect; large LED boards seem acceptable, because CCG did it, and would require less connecting wires.

Note, sockets designed for LEDs would be a problem when someone decides to put in incadenscents.

If AP is going 'reimagine' and try to sell games that are currently selling under $5K, despite being old, better cancel that agreement with PPS now. Stick with what's 30 years old, but selling for at least $5K now.

From truemagoo102 's list, I like the following:

White Water
Theatre of Magic
Cirqus Voltaire

Add in
TAF
Creature
Shadow

and my dark horse: Indiana Jones (you never know!)

Notable omission: Safe Cracker

Nobody is going to sell games for 5k. THat ship has sailed.

It would be great if they would engineer some of the production improvement that Turner pinball does. His ideas and playfield attachments seems well thought out yet traditional to pinball just refinements.

Jumping into this thread just to say that I appreciate American Pinball's past creativity with unlicensed themes! I've owned/enjoyed a Houdini and my Oktoberfest is one of my favorite games in my collection. Very fun!

I wish the "new" American Pinball all the best!

I don’t want to put words in your mouth but might it be - ‘there is absolutely no way AP sells 7 different reimagined 90 B/W games alongside 7 new licensed games in the next 7 years’ ? Haha.

Come on guys are we just assuming CGC is just a bunch of lazy idiots with poor leadership and that’s the only reason they haven’t done this? AP was an LED lighting guy away from the best pinball company around all along!

The only way this happens is if Bryan is willing to take a $10MM+ hit on his net worth.

Not sure why you're quoting me, I said if old, used games are selling for under $5K on average, then they probably won't be viable as reimagined games, from a business standpoint.

Sorry STTNG, you're cool, but don't resell for much, probably would be too costly to build, and be a bear to license

Do you have examples? It's tough to sell people on modern parts being quality and better than the old ones, but there are other ways to make improvements besides quality.

Wishlist "reimagined" games:

-Champion Pub
-Kingpin
-WH20
-Radical
-Blackwater 100
-Transporter The Rescue
-Big Guns
-Dr. Dude

Likely won't happen but I'll list them anyway:

-Congo
-ST TNG
-Indy Jones
-Elvira SS/TPM

I hope Cyclone or Comet get re made, but might only be doing DMD games.

I would like the following:

Creature From The Black Lagoon
TOTAN by AP not Pederetti after what they did to FH!
No Good Gofers (with regular scoring and an option for low score wins like golf, fitting the theme)
TAF
CV
TOM
Shadow
Congo
Revenge from Mars, in a regular sized cabinet and LCD screen maybe adding a new shot or two since more room would be available.
Safe cracker great game IMO

Although I appreciate some of the uniqueness of Champion Pub, to me in the end is all about bashing the fighter toy over and over. If he could be much smaller and a lot less of the game play focus, I would consider one. As like the game, but gets old just bashing boxers.

And completely unrealistically Pinbot, Taxi and Firepower with drops as the prototype was made with.

Fish tales!!!

I like the cut of your jib, Good Sir.

Sign me up for a modernized Blackwater AND Transporter, post-haste!

OK just let me do a quick calculations...15 plus 32....carry the one...

Ok got it. AP please remake every machine ever plus a bunch of newm ones. Thanks

the

Radical must have the Soren rom or new code if not it's shit for comp play.
Transporter The Rescue / Big Guns needs to use an fair comp rom with out the carry over Jackpot.

WH20 Use the home rom and fix bugs (all rom versions have differnt issues)

Blackwater 100 fix hardware issues / maybe some updated code?

Champion Pub put the gate swtich back in that was in prototype (still works in the latest rom)

Needs an lot of code work multi player games are unstable.

orbit games 1st ticket pay out pinball game.

Here ya go - cool stuff and according to the Googlers and the interwebs -

Key Technical and Design Improvements
Pop Bumper Design (Patent Pending): A new, more durable design featuring a spring steel skirt and metal base plate. They are easier to install with no calibration required (no "spoon" adjustment), simplifying maintenance.
Cabinet and Glass System: A refined, industry-standard cabinet with a new, easier-to-remove, and safer glass system that includes integrated, non-wired LED lighting.
Hardware Upgrades: Improved, more reliable ball-serve and launch mechanisms.
Illumination: High-intensity RGB speaker lighting and, in newer models like Merlin's Arcade, built-in LED stadium lights.

No matter which games they do, I really hope they go with the same display size and aspect ratio as CGC. They did a great job with the upscaled dots that managed to keep the charm of the old DMDs.

(My vote is for Whitewater, btw)