Signal is designed to know as little as possible, but it is not zero-knowledge. It can see your phone number, which serves as your account ID, the date and time you last connected, and minimal app metadata required to deliver messages such as push notifications. Signal doesn't know who you message, what you say, your groups, your readable contact list, your message history, file contents, or your social graph. Even Signal itself cannot decrypt your messages, and court records show it can typically provide only a phone number and a last-seen timestamp.
Users can still be identified outside of Signal. Accounts are tied to phone numbers, so if that number is linked to your real identity elsewhere, attribution is possible. Signal does not fingerprint devices, but your IP address, operating system, and network provider are visible to your ISP, and Apple or Google can see that the app is installed and used. IP addresses are visible during connections, allowing possible timing correlation, though not content access; using a VPN or Tor reduces this risk. Contacts who already have your number will recognize you on Signal, and Signal cannot prevent that. Finally, if a device is unlocked, seized, infected with malware, or backed up insecurely, messages can be accessed on the device itself rather than through Signal.
Signal can be highly anonymous if used carefully. Registering with a non-personal phone number, enabling registration lock, using disappearing messages, disabling cloud backups, locking the app with a PIN ( not biometrics), and using a VPN or Tor all reduce exposure. Even then, Signal protects message content extremely well, limits metadata about who you talk to, but does not fully anonymize who you are.
It doesn’t say how they’re investigating. My guess is they got into someone’s phone and are reading messages locally; I would be somewhat surprised if they obtained anything from Signal itself.
They use graphite. All that the tech needs is to text a number. You don’t have to open it just receiving it compromises your device. And they can see a mirror of your phone screen, access your microphone, and your camera.
They can tell whose phone numbers are nearby using other methods.
The group chat is compromised is how they are investigating. Either by an agent being invited to the group by mistake, or pressuring someone in the group or by grabbing up a end device.
To expand on your comment, biometrics are not protected by the 5th Amendment while a PIN or passphrase is. You can be compelled in court to provide biometric access to your digital accounts. IANAL so don't build your legal defense around that without doing some homework first.
Most phones can be set up with a shortcut or gesture to lock down and override biometrics, or they are required when the device is restarted. If you're going into a situation where you might need that extra layer of protection, make sure you take advantage of those features first. Setting the phone to wipe itself after X failed attempts is also a good idea so they can't brute force it.
It's silly to put quotes around forgotten. If cops are asking for passwords you can just tell them to suck your 5th Amendment, and your dick. There's zero obligation to provide that information.
It also doesn't matter how secure it is if you let the FBI into your group chat. This is how the infiltrate lots of groups who use Signal because they think it's secure but don't implement any other security practices.
Just a clarification - it knows who you're messaging by that user's device ID - that's a necessary part of the service - but it doesn't *log* that information. In theory, someone could compromise their server application and capture RAM images of the app while it's running (or worse, compromise the app to send data feeds off-net), but I'd expect that this is something they'd be on the watch for.
You're correct that it does not - and cannot - read messages, or maintain information on group memberships persistently. Your phone simply sends a list of recipients on each message, which the app performs and then flushes* that list from memory.
One caveat to the above - last I heard, the server app cannot fully flush that information until the message has been delivered to all recipients (within a reasonable time frame, but I don't know what that is and it's probably measured in days). This is to ensure that messages can still be delivered when a recipient doesn't have an internet connection, has their phone disabled, et al. I will make a conjecture that it flushes the data on each recipient as they receive the message, which seems like a good security practice.
Source: I've worked with Moxie in the past, and heard him talk about the idea of Signal before he wrote the first version.
* By "flush", I mean overwriting the memory allocation that held that data with zeroes or other random byte sequences - simply deallocating it would make it still readable by a process running as root if it knew where to look.
Opsec is the weakest link, not cryptography. Many people are probably just downloading the app and operating like WhatsApp, or creating large groups with a few people who get arrested with transcripts on their devices and expose the rest.
This isn't a criticism of users, people shouldn't have to behave like spies in daily life, but the reality is the tool is only as strong as the hand that wields it.
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Worse, I’d say what they are is what’s known as “bad faith actors”. “Not serious” doesn’t convey enough of the fuckery most foul that they practice.
Every one of their interactions is a means to an outcome they desire. Anything they say or do, is in service to that.
They’ll try to obscure their motives because they know the outcome they want is only popular with a tiny subset of the population involved in the exchange.
They will use argument as a weapon. Social mores as a weapon. Anything they can get a grip on, becomes a weapon. If we were talking about an individual, it would be the classic DARVO tactic of a malignant narcissist.
They should be treated as such. They are criminally and irreversibly mentally ill. However, I would also posit they’re not true psychopaths because the majority of them are fully aware what they’re doing is unconscionable behavior. It’s very deliberate and why they use the DARVO style tactics. Learn how to shut down a narcissist and scale that knowledge to the threat they present.
Kash used to be afraid there could be pedos in charge. Now he knows there is a pedo in charge, and not only doesn't care he is actively protecting them all by breaking a federal law and not releasing the Epstein files.
From Steve Benen, a producer for "The Rachel Maddow Show," the editor of MaddowBlog and an MS NOW political contributor:
FBI Director Kash Patel walked into a constitutional problem he should’ve seen coming. Appearing on Fox News, the former podcast personality said of the victim, “You cannot bring a firearm, loaded, with multiple magazines to any sort of protest that you want. It’s that simple.”
As Second Amendment advocates were quick to note, that isn’t exactly true. Plenty of conservative activists have brought loaded guns and magazines to a wide variety of public protests — and none of them were shot or killed by federal agents.
A day later, the hapless bureau director decided to make matters noticeably worse, shifting his attention from the Second Amendment to the First. NBC News reported:
“FBI Director Kash Patel said Monday that he had opened an investigation into the Signal group text chats that Minnesota residents are using to share information about federal immigration agents’ movements, launching a new front in the Trump administration’s conflict there with potential free speech implications.”
The Trump administration believes they can supersede the Constitution when the protections it provides to Americans becomes inconvenient to the administration.
ICE is purposely grabbing people with valid documents on their person and dragging them into incarceration in order to intimidate Americans and immigrants with valid paperwork. Not to mention physical violence. They get bonuses for bringing in any person, even if that person gets released because their documents are good. Cars are possessions are left abandoned or in some cases are stolen by ICE personnel.
This is truly shocking.
And it's all because the Supreme Court is majority corrupt judges.
Show us the agents text chats and other logs while you are at it. Lets compare who was openly planning more illegal activity.
Right now, without even knowing more about who these people are or what they said I am already leaning towards giving them a medal for saving the Republic.
I took a tour through all of my MAGA family FB and social media posts this weekend. All rabid right wing fun nuts, etc. Not a fucking word.
It's all posts about supposed Somali fraud, what Obama did (ironically), and support for Iran.
I say ironically because they fail to see the difference in that Obama deported more than Trump has over his term and a quarter and he didn't need door to door raids, no murder of us citizens etc. And yes Democrats did indeed protest and Obama was sued dozens of times by immigrants rights organizations for his policies. And he actually made changes to his policies. They do not get no one is against immigration enforcement or reform. Everyone should be against shredding the constitution, ignoring courts, and violating civil rights left and right.
Signal is designed to know as little as possible, but it is not zero-knowledge. It can see your phone number, which serves as your account ID, the date and time you last connected, and minimal app metadata required to deliver messages such as push notifications. Signal doesn't know who you message, what you say, your groups, your readable contact list, your message history, file contents, or your social graph. Even Signal itself cannot decrypt your messages, and court records show it can typically provide only a phone number and a last-seen timestamp.
Users can still be identified outside of Signal. Accounts are tied to phone numbers, so if that number is linked to your real identity elsewhere, attribution is possible. Signal does not fingerprint devices, but your IP address, operating system, and network provider are visible to your ISP, and Apple or Google can see that the app is installed and used. IP addresses are visible during connections, allowing possible timing correlation, though not content access; using a VPN or Tor reduces this risk. Contacts who already have your number will recognize you on Signal, and Signal cannot prevent that. Finally, if a device is unlocked, seized, infected with malware, or backed up insecurely, messages can be accessed on the device itself rather than through Signal.
Signal can be highly anonymous if used carefully. Registering with a non-personal phone number, enabling registration lock, using disappearing messages, disabling cloud backups, locking the app with a PIN ( not biometrics), and using a VPN or Tor all reduce exposure. Even then, Signal protects message content extremely well, limits metadata about who you talk to, but does not fully anonymize who you are.
The take away here is that that while they can find out info about a user, your group chats should be set to delete after a set amount of time.
And still assume someone is screenshotting the conversations.
It doesn’t say how they’re investigating. My guess is they got into someone’s phone and are reading messages locally; I would be somewhat surprised if they obtained anything from Signal itself.
https://www.npr.org/2025/11/08/nx-s1-5585691/ice-facial-recognition-immigration-tracking-spyware
They use graphite. All that the tech needs is to text a number. You don’t have to open it just receiving it compromises your device. And they can see a mirror of your phone screen, access your microphone, and your camera.
They can tell whose phone numbers are nearby using other methods.
Welcome to 1984
The group chat is compromised is how they are investigating. Either by an agent being invited to the group by mistake, or pressuring someone in the group or by grabbing up a end device.
I assume they were doing old-fashioned spywork and posing as activists to infiltrate Signal groups.
My guess is this is 99% bluster
The NBC link says they're trying to inflitrate groups. It's not tech-driven.
Not the answer- use alphanumeric password. Biometrics can and will be used against your will.
To expand on your comment, biometrics are not protected by the 5th Amendment while a PIN or passphrase is. You can be compelled in court to provide biometric access to your digital accounts. IANAL so don't build your legal defense around that without doing some homework first.
Most phones can be set up with a shortcut or gesture to lock down and override biometrics, or they are required when the device is restarted. If you're going into a situation where you might need that extra layer of protection, make sure you take advantage of those features first. Setting the phone to wipe itself after X failed attempts is also a good idea so they can't brute force it.
Have updated to reflect that.
Don’t lock things with biometrics, only lock with alphanumeric that can be “forgotten.”
It's silly to put quotes around forgotten. If cops are asking for passwords you can just tell them to suck your 5th Amendment, and your dick. There's zero obligation to provide that information.
Don't do this. Use alpha-numerics.
https://www.arnoldporter.com/en/perspectives/advisories/2025/03/when-your-fingers-do-the-talking
Yes.
Also remember, your biometrics can be reproduced without your presence or consent.
An alphanumeric password can be reset once compromised, biometrics can not be, short of surgery or something equally drastic.
If they can join the chat or get access to one of the phones that receives those messages, though, they can read whatever they want.
It also doesn't matter how secure it is if you let the FBI into your group chat. This is how the infiltrate lots of groups who use Signal because they think it's secure but don't implement any other security practices.
Comment deleted by user
Just a clarification - it knows who you're messaging by that user's device ID - that's a necessary part of the service - but it doesn't *log* that information. In theory, someone could compromise their server application and capture RAM images of the app while it's running (or worse, compromise the app to send data feeds off-net), but I'd expect that this is something they'd be on the watch for.
You're correct that it does not - and cannot - read messages, or maintain information on group memberships persistently. Your phone simply sends a list of recipients on each message, which the app performs and then flushes* that list from memory.
One caveat to the above - last I heard, the server app cannot fully flush that information until the message has been delivered to all recipients (within a reasonable time frame, but I don't know what that is and it's probably measured in days). This is to ensure that messages can still be delivered when a recipient doesn't have an internet connection, has their phone disabled, et al. I will make a conjecture that it flushes the data on each recipient as they receive the message, which seems like a good security practice.
Source: I've worked with Moxie in the past, and heard him talk about the idea of Signal before he wrote the first version.
* By "flush", I mean overwriting the memory allocation that held that data with zeroes or other random byte sequences - simply deallocating it would make it still readable by a process running as root if it knew where to look.
This would be great with some cited sources alongside it.
And kegsbreath still managed to have the info and messages leaked
Opsec is the weakest link, not cryptography. Many people are probably just downloading the app and operating like WhatsApp, or creating large groups with a few people who get arrested with transcripts on their devices and expose the rest.
This isn't a criticism of users, people shouldn't have to behave like spies in daily life, but the reality is the tool is only as strong as the hand that wields it.
Thanks for this info!!!
Knowledge is power. Thank you.
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But Signal chats divulging attacks on foreign soil aren't worthy of investigation.
👊🇺🇲🔥 these are not serious people.
They seem serious about the fascism...
Worse, I’d say what they are is what’s known as “bad faith actors”. “Not serious” doesn’t convey enough of the fuckery most foul that they practice.
Every one of their interactions is a means to an outcome they desire. Anything they say or do, is in service to that.
They’ll try to obscure their motives because they know the outcome they want is only popular with a tiny subset of the population involved in the exchange.
They will use argument as a weapon. Social mores as a weapon. Anything they can get a grip on, becomes a weapon. If we were talking about an individual, it would be the classic DARVO tactic of a malignant narcissist.
They should be treated as such. They are criminally and irreversibly mentally ill. However, I would also posit they’re not true psychopaths because the majority of them are fully aware what they’re doing is unconscionable behavior. It’s very deliberate and why they use the DARVO style tactics. Learn how to shut down a narcissist and scale that knowledge to the threat they present.
I would say 100 years of trying to overthrow our government for a Nazi coup is pretty serious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_Plot
Stop pretending this is Trump and a bunch of mindless stooges. They are all reading a script the GOP wrote 40 years ago:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84
Rules for thee not for mee the slogan of the right.
Just like Rittenhouse showing up with a rifle and planning to use it is fine. But Pretti showing up with a holstered pistol is ‘domestic terrorism’
Kash used to be afraid there could be pedos in charge. Now he knows there is a pedo in charge, and not only doesn't care he is actively protecting them all by breaking a federal law and not releasing the Epstein files.
Big Fed doing what they say Biden was doing.
From Steve Benen, a producer for "The Rachel Maddow Show," the editor of MaddowBlog and an MS NOW political contributor:
FBI Director Kash Patel walked into a constitutional problem he should’ve seen coming. Appearing on Fox News, the former podcast personality said of the victim, “You cannot bring a firearm, loaded, with multiple magazines to any sort of protest that you want. It’s that simple.”
As Second Amendment advocates were quick to note, that isn’t exactly true. Plenty of conservative activists have brought loaded guns and magazines to a wide variety of public protests — and none of them were shot or killed by federal agents.
A day later, the hapless bureau director decided to make matters noticeably worse, shifting his attention from the Second Amendment to the First. NBC News reported:
“FBI Director Kash Patel said Monday that he had opened an investigation into the Signal group text chats that Minnesota residents are using to share information about federal immigration agents’ movements, launching a new front in the Trump administration’s conflict there with potential free speech implications.”
Read more: https://www.ms.now/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/kash-patel-says-the-fbi-is-investigating-signal-chats-of-minnesotans-tracking-ice
The Trump administration believes they can supersede the Constitution when the protections it provides to Americans becomes inconvenient to the administration.
Comment deleted by user
Because of that fucking weird stare of his?
Signal chats are end-to-end encrypted aren't they? Even Signal don't have access to them.
I never, ever want to hear the conservative small government argument again.
Never.
Sure, Kash - that’s definitely FAAAAAAR more important than, say, investigating the 2 murders they committed in broad daylight.🙄
But they say using the fraudulent claim that the “election was stolen” to conspire to overthrow the government is covered under the 1st Amendment…
ICE is purposely grabbing people with valid documents on their person and dragging them into incarceration in order to intimidate Americans and immigrants with valid paperwork. Not to mention physical violence. They get bonuses for bringing in any person, even if that person gets released because their documents are good. Cars are possessions are left abandoned or in some cases are stolen by ICE personnel.
This is truly shocking.
And it's all because the Supreme Court is majority corrupt judges.
Isn’t this basically unwarranted wiretapping? What laws have been broken that require an investigation?
Maybe finish searching for those Epstein files first, OK?
Show us the agents text chats and other logs while you are at it. Lets compare who was openly planning more illegal activity.
Right now, without even knowing more about who these people are or what they said I am already leaning towards giving them a medal for saving the Republic.
What a fucking cowardly loser. FBI should be hunting like actual criminals, not protestors. He is such a pathetic POS.
I took a tour through all of my MAGA family FB and social media posts this weekend. All rabid right wing fun nuts, etc. Not a fucking word.
It's all posts about supposed Somali fraud, what Obama did (ironically), and support for Iran.
I say ironically because they fail to see the difference in that Obama deported more than Trump has over his term and a quarter and he didn't need door to door raids, no murder of us citizens etc. And yes Democrats did indeed protest and Obama was sued dozens of times by immigrants rights organizations for his policies. And he actually made changes to his policies. They do not get no one is against immigration enforcement or reform. Everyone should be against shredding the constitution, ignoring courts, and violating civil rights left and right.
The FBI is investigating the First Amendment to see how they can execute it like they do a citizen in the streets.
Another Fourth Amendment violation.
Are US citizens not supposed to monitor enemy movements?
Man, I'm so looking forward to the comeuppance fuckheads like Patel are due.
Did he just tell us ICE is communicating using signal?