Says the person who claims the Ontario line train capacity will be 1,100 - the same as a Line 1 train. Despite only having about 55% of the floor area for an 80-metre long train, compared to 143 metres for the TR. (Hopefully they've protected the platforms for 100-metre long trains).
With 97-metre long 2-car trains, there might be higher capacity on this line compared to the Ontario line!
^Did you forget that you were the one who dragged an off-topic conversation (Line 1) from a different thread to this one? Thankfully, my original post on Flexity Freedom capacity does have something to do with Hurontario as they were originally supposed to use Flexities:
https://transittoronto.ca/regional/2117.shtml
but what does that have to do with Hurontario I don't know.
You accused me of habitually gaslighting others when I had cited a plethora of sources, when you yourself don't have a habit of linking sources. But I'm gonna chalk it up to you being heated in the moment.
So no ill-will from me, especially since you apologized.
I was comparing 6 pax/m^2 to 6 pax/m^2 based on existing documentation on the capacities for standardized metros and Bombardier Flexity Freedoms. That is apples to apples.
You are free to break down exactly where I made a mistaken assumption to get those 6 pax/m^2 figures, but you guys didn't do that. Bringing up red herrings like 1,100 for Toronto Rocket with poorly calculated this or that, and without normalizing to a X pax/m^2 is not relevant or productive.
As a better hypothetical:
90 metres is a rough analogue of Eglinton and Hurontario's eventual train lengths: I'll take three (3) of 30 metre long cars 2.65 metres wide at 3 pax/m^2 which is more realistic.
3*30*2.65*3= 715.5
80*3*3= 720
^Ontario Line is 80 metres long, 3 metres wide, 3 pax/m^2 as well.
So a 90 metre long low floor tram carries about the same amount of people as an 80 metre metro. In this scenario it's because the metro cars are wider. However,
external dimensions are not conducive for calculating real world passenger capacities,
internal dimensions are.
In the real world, open gangways, thinner walls, higher capacity seating layouts etc. come into play. This is why the capacity gap swings in favour of a metro in the real world, which you reasonably doubted, but I can assure you the underlying numbers are based on real seating layouts. I don't pretend my earlier comparison was entirely perfect, but that it did reflect a real capacity difference for a viable scenario.
You can claim it's apples to oranges because Flexities have a suboptimal, transverse seating heavy layout, whereas longitudinal seating-heavy metros are a different seating layout entirely. But in practice low floor trams usually have transverse seating over the bogie hump, whereas metros don't need to have as much transverse seating if the customer doesn't want it.
You can argue the gap between 600 and 1,000 was too big, but
a gap in real life does exist. But even if they were the exact same capacity (715.5 vs. 720), the Ontario Line train is still shorter.
Here is another scenario:
We take
@smallspy 's 625 pax for Ontario Line 80 metre trains and compare it to what Metrolinx says for a 90 metre Flexity Freedom's (typical) maximum capacity, 490 pax in a 'three car trainset':
163*3=489 https://www.metrolinx.com/en/discover/the-differences-between-trains-light-rail-vehicles-and-subways
625 pax for 80 metres is also congruent with Page 65/149 here: https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/...2020-12-08-Ontario-Line-PDBC-Public-Final.pdf
That's the point I was driving home about low floor platforms being longer than high floor platforms for the same capacity. Which wasted money for Eglinton and wasted money for Hurontario. We can disagree on whether low or high floor vehicles would've been better suited for Hurontario though, that's where the debate should be. Not whether high floors would have more capacity per metre.
Hurontario is supposed to have 90 metre platforms (although I suspect, similar to you
@nfitz that the platforms might function closer to 100 metres to accommodate 97 metre long trains?)
90 metre source:
https://assets.metrolinx.com/image/upload/Documents/Metrolinx/Hurontario-Main_LRT_Project_EPR.pdf
The last minute switcheroo from Flexity Freedoms to Citadis trains might've ruined the original plan for 90 metre platforms like Eglinton.
That is the first time I have seen you apologize, I appreciate that, genuinely.
