This is more like Dad and Partner. You know, Quisp & Quake?

Good luck American Pinball!

What a useful resource on these forums that customers just tell what they want.

To that end here is what I would like:
(1) A fun game
(2) More of a challenging playfield that another basic fan layout that I can already play already with other tables
(3) Humor in callouts, and variety
(4) The logical stuff already built in, to acknowledge opportunity cost of a home user to add playfield plastic protectors, artblades, etc
(5) Not to have NIB price chopped in half in a year because game sucks, broken, or abandoned
(6) Commitment to replaceable parts
(7) Safe hardware hooks to allow for mods
(8) Proper shipping materials. So far I like Spooky’s off-the-shelf moving blankets best
(9) Engagement with owners about what they want fixed/changed. Bug at spooky livestreams with owners to collaboratively make final Evil Dead Wizard, David at BoF has a whiteboard for factory visitors to write the dream themes he wants him to chase
(10) A playfield and art package that looks good
(11) No spyware/mandatory subscriptions

I listened to the entire FlipNOut podcast the other day and liked what I heard so far. Looking forward to seeing what next AP games will be

Thank you. This all makes sense and great suggestions and I have forwarded to the team. Shadow Avatar is awesome!

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See, this is exactly what I was talking about.

You are seriously going to forward this unedited laundry list of nonsense to your team and tell them to take it seriously?

What is your team going to think of suggestions like "make a fun game," "include hooks for mods (just put hooks all over the playfield, in case some third-party decides to sell a mod)," "don't make a game that sucks," and "make games with good art?" Also, build games that "don't lose half their value" and don't break. And while you are at it, the playfield should be challenging.

Reactions will likely range from "Gee! Why didn't we think of any of this ?!" to "wow, my new boss thinks I'm an idiot."

Most welcome Bryan! It is interesting that so many of the features in my wishlist are in a Shadow already. What a great machine.

Hey on your rotisserie Shadow restore, if you don't have one already, you may wish to consider the Aurich translite if you can find one. I have it here on my Shadow and it really improves the machine

I hope that this "team" is a bunch of complete outsiders who also just started. Otherwise, if I'm an employee at American Pinball, I've just learned this week that I have a brand new boss, I've heard his business plan from a podcast, and I'm now getting emails from him that are copy pasted from pinside forum posts, a forum that I'd undoubtedly be watching like a hawk to gather information about the new boss I met 3 days prior.

During my day to day in my 8 years in pinball I've come across many internal suggestion lists. Josh probably sends me 5 new suggestions every workday. However, none of them start with the insulting directive to make "a fun game" Wow... why didn't we think of that!?!

3 Shadow pinball fans posting in a row! That has to rack up some kinda points just for the combo

All I go to say is get ahold of that Friday the 13th homebrew and make it! That is a huge license and anything Jason Voorhees/Fri the 13th sells!

For once I actually think you could benefit from taking it down a notch and that is coming from one of the biggest assholes here on Pinside.

I am thinking that maybe there was enough common sense that not all suggestions were forwarded?

Im sure bryan read his same point the other hundred times he posted, if he ran AP it'd "be tits up in a week."

I'm sure Bryan is being respectful of honestly given feedback and will take what he can out of it. I do think he should ignore other "unedited" advice like "ignore your customers!" but I am not going to speculate on his reaction as I am pretty sure he doesn't need my suggestion or yours on how to run a successful business and how to make sound business decisions.

I will state I would like AP AND the other manufacturers to succeed, keeping our hobby fresh and relevant. Don't you? (I think you do, I hope you do)

Wow! Three way combo!

Your list was well stated. It was a mix of obvious things (be fun!) and less obvious things (consider adding better official mod support), but sometimes even the obvious is good to keep in mind, especially when you're making products directly for customers.

There are definitely times I've played a pin and not felt that anyone on the team remembered that it should be fun.

The thing about all the backseat driver comments you're getting about your list is they're basically saying, in one way or another, "I think this Bryan guy is an idiot".

Let's assume for a minute that Bryan is in fact not a moron. And that when he responds positively to people contributing, and welcomes feedback, and says he's going to forward on suggestions that he doesn't just copy and paste posts into an email and hit send.

Honestly if someone couldn't look at that list you wrote, and figure out a way to use it in a positive manner with their team, then they're frankly way out of their depth to be telling anyone how to run a company.

But more than that, responding positively to people who take the time to put out positive energy is just a simply good community management strategy. As is ignoring the people who continue on being a broken record in ways that aren't useful.

If you posted that list in the Ars Technica forum in a place we asked for feedback and I said "thanks, I'm forwarding on to the team" I can tell you what I would probably do.

I'd drop a link to the post in the #management channel of our Slack, and highlight something I liked about it.

"This was a nice post, I like the idea of safe hooks for mods. We've talked about official accessories, but building a good rapport with the aftermarket mod community would be a smart way to keep people engaged with our game, and providing extra value and excitement for people who are looking for things we probably don't have the bandwidth or scale to provide. Also, not having fucking alligator clips under our playfields is going to lead to less reliability headaches from people causing their own problems that still will reflect back on us. Let's make sure we think about adding a few 5V molex connectors under the playfield."

Boom, done. Not hard. I do exactly that all the time. We regularly look to the community for basic temperature checks. And, we don't use them as some proxy for democracy—if a bunch of people post a dumb idea we ignore it. It's just another tool in the chest.

I guess Bryan should have responded with a hearty "f u". Would that have made you happy? SMH, you truly are a curmudgeon.

I, for one, will welcome any halving of prices of NIB pins - even the ones I own. I LOVE the fact that GTF and LOV have been screaming NIB values over the last few months.

Bryan, just wanted to say thanks from my family to yours! Appreciate you so much for your effort and taking the plunge in this for all of our benefit. We, at our home, thoroughly enjoy our GTF and excited to see what you all have in store for it and all the AP games going forward.

Here's my wish list:

1) "Roguelike" elements - Whenever you beat a mode or something, you collect a thing that affects the game going forward in an interesting way. Probably the best example I can think of is Labyrinth Friends (Ludo doubles letter collection, Sir Didymus saves your butt etc.) and AIQ Gems (each gem affects the game in some way going forward, maybe increase ball saves, etc). There's lots of "double scoring this lane", which is nice, but super common and only affects it if you're in it for the high score, not the adventure itself. I want interesting rewards for my achievements in game that help me progress along my way. Give me an on demand ball save, controllable diverter like GTF or a rotating diverter/playfield like Winchester that opens new parts of the game.

2) Audio - Spooky and BOF have the best stock audio packages bar none and it's no wonder they're killing it. Labynrinth and Dune feel immersive. I still don't think Evil Dead is an amazing shooter, but the sound is worth the purchase alone. GTF audio is great too! The dubstep and callouts really help and keep the fun going. On top of the package, decent speakers and a sub paired with an amp make a world of difference for how it feels in-game. It's an extra cost, but man it definitely brings in the senses for that wow factor when you step up to something that sounds great.

Also, to add to the chorus, Cuphead would be awesome if that can get resurrected again. Hopefully see you at TPF! Thanks again so much!

Bryan, please never use "Immersive" in company literature, ever.

Theme Immersion. What it’s all about Law! Like chopping up the meat in TCM.

Time for you to pick up a GTF like we've been talking about for so long?

Ask yourself, what do you need AP to offer that would cause you to seriously consider buying a NIB game, and post it.

Maybe it’ll happen…

I’ll say it again, bring back Dennis and make White Water 2, or retheme it as something close (e.g., Disney’s Jungle Cruise). A fun, funny, family-friendly theme.

Make Eight Ball Beyond happen and we can talk.

https://pinside.com/pinball/forum/topic/eight-ball-beyond

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Can we add ‘AI’ to that same no-no list, por favor?

If they make Cuphead, and it’s as good as the supposed leaked photos I’ve seen, I would gladly sell one of our sterns to make room for it.

This thread just keeps getting better, and more buttery!

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Hi Tim,

Thanks for all you do. Some of your games are here on site already, and I enjoy their fun factor.

I feel that there are lots of talented creative folks in pinball, and I wonder if the sidetracking away when other factors come into play, like a CEO forcing a shaving down of the BOM, software, or art at the expense of fun, that then interrupts the end result.

Also as a sidenote, I really enjoy your Youtube videos, and just last week watched a fair few, including your favorite machines of 2025, why you stopped competitive pinball since it was no longer fun, and your favorite 1970s pins

Agree 100%.

My experience through life is that optimistic, solution-based folks have a tendency to succeed more often, especially if a small competitive market of severing a niche product. One needs to be rolling higher than a +1 charisma to have a successful project. And part of that is how one chooses to interact with just customers, but suppliers, competitors, and everyone.

I find that sociopathy within pinball is actually pleasantly less than population's overall 1%. It's a relatively small community and there are so many amazing folks I never would have met, other than through the hobby.

And I am definitely on board for a Eight-Ball Beyond write-in petition

I hear you on that. Played a GTF at Antisocial Pinball in Toronto, and to my somewhat surprise, I was impressed after a half-dozen games. I can see why the owner included one on his floor

Levi isn’t just a hater, he thinks of himself as an influencer. He tries to influence other people to hate as much as he does.

There's a word I wish I could never see again - "influencer". I was searching Amazon for watch batteries, and right there on the search page, under some of the batteries, it told me which ones were supported by "Amazon influencers." How stupid does a person have to be to be influenced by that -- some rando got free batteries in exchange for a positive review, and I'm supposed to base my purchase on that. SMH.

Rant over - now back to our regularly-scheduled programming.

The challenge with personal wishlists is that so much is individual taste/perception. I’d say that GTF fits this list other than some of the non-game related items. But it’s not that hard to appeal to a big enough pool of buyers for a smaller, limited game release - strong license, great/proven artist, lots of stuff / perceived good value, and decent gameplay with safe, proven design. And no major post launch issues if you want to sell out game 2. Your list does cover most of this.

To avoid sounding like a broken record, I'll just respond to these three identical points with a single post:

The CEO literally said "This all makes sense and great suggestions and I'm forwarding them to my team."

As the CEO has been incredibly and refreshingly honest, straightforward, and transparent up to this point, I just assumed that is what he did.

There had been a rumor it got picked up for production after everyone played and loved it, but that didn't seem to pan out.

I'm sure it would need some level of polish to actually be a full on production game, but the only thing it's actually 'missing' is original music. What it's definitely not missing is creative shots.

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I get it, the new AP is probably going to focus on licenses now though. Way things go. As much as that puts me to sleep it's smart if you don't have a team that can really execute original titles, as the old AP clearly was missing. And that's an extra challenge when you're starting clean.

But it would be cool to see a game that already solved that problem get made.

For the Las Vegas market, how aboot an Aloha/Hawai'ian BBQ Challenge?

It isn't exactly based on beating a mode, but Oktoberfest steins and tents [ie, modes] have this relationship. For example, the stein combination to give more time in tents, plus one for higher multiball jackpots, plus the one to boost something like Füd Frenzy mode (hit like 75 switches, all switches score, score increases based on hitting different switches); follow that with starting the Füd Frenzy mode, and then activate the multiball.

F it, I want to see the GTF prequel, spinoff or whatever that crazy little hat wearing moustachio was trying to make.

Agree Sean did a great job with it. The Bergeron art package was a great fit for the table’s aesthetic.

I had come across that the Joust-style Monster League Hockey homebrew was working to try to put together a run of 100 or so from a builder, but I’m not sure on which builder. If it pans out they might be another option for a small Eightball Beyond run if AP or other boutiques can’t spare room on their lines

This is a good example of "theme matters". Steins and tents just don't communicate a whole lot, it's pretty abstract. Oktoberfest just doesn't have a lot of great hooks for adventure.

But when we talk "roguelike" you're generally calling back to the original Rogue in some fashion, which was a dungeon crawler.

Exploring a dungeon offers so many more ways to communicate rules and excitement to the player in a way that's intuitive and enticing.

Say you have 3 item slots, and as you're progressing you get to save things to it. You find a grappling hook:

Item (resized).png

And now you have a single use straight-down-the-middle ball save that plays a satisfying whip crack and the clink of metal on stone when it activates. It's pretty easy to remember what that does and how it works.

You find a love potion, and the next monster you battle you only have to make a single pink shot to beat it, because it's smitten with you and you stab it in the back.

Love potion (resized).png

If I dropped a bunch of icons for weapons and magical items and gems into this thread I bet people could come up with a rule for all them without any trouble. I was just scrolling through a stock resource, saw that love potion, and made up a rule on the spot for how it might be useful.

Maybe some are automatic, maybe some go into your "action slot" for the lockdown bar button and don't active until you use them. You could manage them, or the order you pick them up decides, whatever.

By picking a theme that lends itself to this kind of exploration you've made your job as designers (both for rules, and graphics, and sound effects) easier, but also you're communicating to the player better.

….stealing ideas for my homebrew project

Steal it all! Why someone hasn't done a new dungeon crawler (that isn't a D&D license) is a mystery to me, it feels like such an obviously good idea compared to beer and BBQ games.

Games in the 80s knew how to do it. They just didn't have the memory and tech to full realize ideas.

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This is why I feel so frustrated by these discussions about unlicensed games. I get why licenses are good, but at the same time most of the unlicensed themes suck. Too many engineers with no imagination picking the ideas out of a hat.

Just steal good ideas.

Since the Hot Wheels licensed has run out, I am wondering if they could reskin and modified code, maybe some minor PF changes/additions if they make sense and produce a Speed Racer version. I would be interested in this.

Maybe as has been mentioned Barry O's BBQ could get a similar treatment for something more appealing. An easier "reboot" while working on original layouts.

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I want to make a Zelda pin based exclusively off the first NES game but have linear progression instead of mode based gameplay. I’m not entirely sure how to implement the items because some are passive and some are active.

Thanks man I appreciate it.

Selling pinball machines is a business at the end of the day, and as such it functions exactly like any other business in many ways. There is investment, there is management, there are people on the team with different levels of talent and experience, there is equipment needed to perform the job, and there are operation costs. There is also the capital risk involved in running everything, since you're hoping to make a return in the future and that depends on getting products to customers with a margin that covers all your overhead and development costs.

I know this is the same boring dull work nonsense that everyone wants pinball to be an escape from but deep down we all know that on the inside it functions like any other kind of business at some level.

It takes a long time to design, prototype, develop, and iterate during game development. During that time, people are constantly absorbing information about other games within and outside their studio, and observing trends in the industry and among the customers. Yes, that means reading pinside and facebook and other social media posts from enthusiasts and customers. It means listening to podcasts where newly minted pinball CEOs describe their business plan. I get that everyone is excited because they are getting direct replies from a guy they think has the power to make the pinball machine and company of their dreams, but the flip side of that is that it comes across like the boss came in with no ideas and no plan on the product side. You don't need your own thread to gather ideas, you have decades of posts on this forum already. Pinball people do nothing but lay out their goals and dreams and wishes for future games any time they get near a keyboard. That's why this forum exists!

It sounds like you don't want to work for the new American Pinball. Cool. I don't want a job there either.

Even if I wanted a job in pinball beyond the contract work I already do (I really don't) my idea of a dream boss isn't one who goes on podcasts to talk about employees sleeping in their cars.

But since nobody here is working for Bryan the kind of boss he is doesn't really matter to anyone.

In the meantime, engaging with customers on a forum is just like going on a podcast. It's community management. It's marketing. It's building loyalty and developing parasocial relationships and introducing yourself to create a good impression.

People actually like that their ideas sound like they're being heard.

I do not know—or care—how Bryan is communicating things to a staff he may or may not have. Not my problem, and it sounds super uninteresting to even speculate about further than I already have.

But I find this little minor chorus of people showing up to tell yet another person in the industry to shut up and stop talking to Pinside to be so utterly bizarre that I can't help but push back on it.

Levi's broken record routine was so tiresome I finally just had to put him on ignore. There are only so many times you can see the same post over and over telling everyone they're stupid.

I appreciate that you're speaking from your experience. I've worked in pinball for a decade now, I grasp the sausage making. But I've been in community management and marketing for decades more, and it's crazy to me that anyone would listen to someone saying "stop engaging with your customers in a high margin, low volume market where feelings dictate a large portion of purchases".

(I watch your videos too btw!)

Rarehero Aurich

I saw the comment you guys posted earlier in this thread regarding a Merlin's Arcade machine at AYCE Gogi that was off. I just contacted the game's owner, who reached out to the manager there, to make sure there wasn't an issue. The manager confirmed the game is and has been working fine. So it appears that someone just decided to turn the game off. Sorry for the inconvenience and hopefully you all will get to play during your next visit.

I would buy a Speed Racer pin!

Purse Lady strikes again!!

Movie version would peak my interest