i had this one AGDQ super meat boy speedrun in regular rotation when i was 14, and i was always taken aback by the part where everyone just straight up starts grilling edmund for the amount of random chance elements in the game. like how dare you, you're a tertiary market, learn your place

the outsized entitlement combined with subzero media literacy, like they genuinely think making games conducive to their artless sport makes them "well designed" and somehow they've convinced indie developers they're right. why do the secrets in farewell just lead to speedrun paths, its so joyless

anyways thats why i said "patch bugs out of your game specifically to piss off speedrunners, they deserve it" in like 2019, sorry i didnt have the words for it then. to this date i think thats the most ive ever been flamed for a post and ive transitioned on the internet

play shovel knight to get a taste of indie platformer design before speedrunner rot took over

play tryrush deppy to get a taste of indie platformer design after speedrunner rot took over but it was made way before then it just kinda feels like it

note: i love tryrush deppy from what ive played so far

As somebody who comes from fighting game circles, this sheer disregard for intended design or appreciation of other elements. It's something that pisses me off to the point of not wanting to engage with the community proper. Like I'm sorry you can't do the Yonkiy spoinky techniques after the patch-

But holy shit there are like so many other ways you can play this game. Have you considered appreciating like the character designs or lore or anything else? Are you too busy Complaining about a top tier from a game from 20 years ago

Like not to sound Petty, but I think Nintendo has it right to actively punish their competitive fighting game scene. Because with the behavior they show and the lack of appreciation they have for the product outside of how they play it, it's just outright malicious

Speedrunners: you can get in this hidden area because “the code is bad” Also speedrunners: hey why are you fixing bugs?

generalizing a community of ppl that come from a place of love for the design of games as a community who is universally entitled and wants games to be built for them is lowkey kinda hurtful . its a performing art and its cool to show off things we have practiced and the cool things u can do

Through AGDQ I've seen a bunch of speedrunners who seem to actively dislike the games they're speedrunning, some even admitting to having never played the game the regular way, and I never got that. Why spend this much time with a game you don't care about?

Isn't part of the fun with speed running discovering new bugs to exploit???? If I was a speed runner id be thrilled to find new strategies for a different version of a game in already familiar with, idk why you'd be mad at that

People do have fun finding exploits they're different from the ones who complain

I mean, there’s a difference between being frustrated by something which makes what you’re doing harder, and believing that it should cater to you. Most speedrunners know they’re not the core audience, but it’s still annoying when you can just be screwed over by luck

i remember when mario 3d all stars was announced to emulate the improved version of mario 64 with rumble that happened to patch out the backwards long jump and people were legitimately pissed

I was also upset because that’s such an iconic and fun bug to play with. I’ve never even speedrun the game but I’ve played a lot of sm64, and it feels like part of the game’s identity now. It’s like releasing Mario Sunshine without alternate nozzles

no it's not

oh no rare patricia taxxon L

I don't think that games should be designed around speedrunners either (and I think that they tend to have more fun Speedruns in games not designed around them), but I don't think it's wrong to want basic consideration.

Hardcore players make up a small section of any game's audience, but I don't think their experiences are invalid or unworthy of consideration. Sure, they're not bringing in the money, but art is about more than money. Art shouldn't be evaluated solely relative to the market.

I agree that runners shouldn't call a game's design "bad" when they enjoy exploiting developer mistakes. We should probably have a higher ideal for games than the convention ideal of bug-free software. Games are about emergence from possibility space, which includes glitches and exploits.

To that end, I think patching out glitches that don't interfere with a standard player's experience (soft locks, falling through the level, crashes, etc) solely to spite speedrunners is bad form. It's a rejection of the shared act of creation and interpretation between artist and player.

It's a narrow insistence that there is a right way to interpret the art, and alternatives are unworthy of consideration. I think speedrunners expose a more fundamental truth about the nature of games and play, and I think they're right to ask for basic consideration where it is feasible.

I wrote two articles related to this topic, one in favor of design consideration for speedrunners: critpoints.net/2020/09/16/d...

And a satire article that offers ways to make speedrunning your game unenjoyable (but probably would make it less pleasant for everyone else too) critpoints.net/2020/09/18/d...

Reminds me of this guy I saw speedrunning re4 and he got so tilted over this specific section for how rng and jank the enemy behavior was that he just started shitting on the whole game for being "too rng heavy" and "poorly designed", like I'm sorry but you kinda chose to do this to yourself

"We only run unpatched version 1.0 because they removed the bug that lets you walk through this one wall"

Whoever says that doesn't know they run with recent patch too