Earlier this year, I found myself on vacation in Japan, so being the nerd that I am, I decided to pick up some Japanese produce. At first, it was the Pioneer BDR-X13JBK external BDXL writer – what may be my last optical drive. But now I needed something to go with it … so perhaps it’s time to get myself a sampling of media as well (or as much as I could justify to spend at the time and cram into my suitcase).
The State of the Optical Disc Market
Before I begin, perhaps it’s worth reflecting on when the last time you used an optical disc was? I have spent quite a bit of my life using them, but I’d have to admit that the past few years have been pretty free of the need to regularly use them. Most people nowadays are likely not too fussed that laptops and most desktops no longer have optical drives. While external drives are somewhat plentiful and DVD-slim external drives can be very cheap (at a guess, made using recycled drives from old laptops or surplus stock), they are hardly flying from the shelves.
A few internet sources have proclaimed the death of the optical disc this year, while others have claimed that optical discs will never die. But when it comes to the masses, the death of optical media as a relevant means of storage is perhaps more true than it is false. A number of announcements over the past decade have shown how this market has shrunk and consolidated over time.
For example, key players in the blank media market have exited the business or faced significant headwinds. Important players that have since left include:
- Hitachi/Maxell – initially misreported as exiting the optical disc market, ended up selling its brand over to Ritek.
- Taiyo Yuden – exited due to low demand, despite being the market leader in quality discs often used by commercial duplicators. Sold assets and branding to CMC Magnetics, originally selling under JVC and now under CMC Pro.
- Mitsubishi Chemical Corporation and Verbatim – sold brand to CMC Magnetics as they don’t see a future in the business. As CMC was producing under license, products are expected to maintain quality.
- TDK – a Japanese manufacturer who was famed for their Durabis hard-coating and for being one of the innovators in the Blu-ray media space, exited business and sold name to Imation, who often rebrands CMC Magnetics media.
- Panasonic – another key figure in the Blu-ray space from Japan, exited market a couple of years ago.
- Sony – just announced they would be winding down their recordable media division including professional media which has been unprofitable. Significant as they are one of the only quad-layer recordable Blu-ray disc manufacturers.
- Moser Baer (India) – high-volume, mainstream manufacturer, has seemingly gone bankrupt.
- Prodisc (Taiwan) – high-volume, lower-end manufacturer has closed after financial and legal difficulties.
- Ricoh – seemingly transferred over their technology to Ritek in the DVD-era, but had most of their media manufactured by Ritek under license anyway and were quite decent.
- Plasmon Data Systems – also went bust, assets purchased by Alliance Storage Technologies focusing on the professional market.
- Princo – a not-very-well-regarded manufacturer of cheap but often problematic discs, seemingly transferred its optical media business to AVIC UmeDisc (HK) who also market products under the Kodak brand name.
When once, in the past, you could peruse a list of media codes extracted from a firmware and marvel at all the types of disc you haven’t met yet, now, we will soon be in a world that leaves you most likely holding a CMC Magnetics or Ritek-made product regardless of what it says on the outside. Some people may have had bad experiences with their more “mainstream” oriented products which makes this proposition a bit of a disappointing end. These two behemoths have had an exceptional amount of experience manufacturing a good chunk of the discs most users would have used, but it’s a bit sad to know that choice is now almost all-but-gone.
What/Why/How BDXL?
When Blu-ray was originally formalised and introduced to consumers in 2006, it was a 25GB single-layer or 50GB dual-layer format. This was a step-up from the 4.7GB or 8.5GB (respectively) offered by DVD and was achieved through the use of a 405nm blue laser and a data layer just 0.1mm from the bottom surface of the disc.
But Blu-ray wasn’t quite done just yet. Having won the format war against HD-DVD in 2008, development on Blu-ray was ongoing with prototype discs storing up to 100GB in 4-layers (2005), 200GB in 6-layers (2006), 250GB in 10-layers (2007), 400GB in 16-layers (2008) and 1TB in 16-layers (2010). Initially, capacity increases focused on larger number of layers, even though this often caused issues with compatibility and drive optical pick-up units. Later, capacity increases occurred through optimisation of encoding from the original 25GB-per-layer technology to a newer ~32GB-per-layer technology thanks to a combination of smaller marks and i-MLSE decoding to overcome the increased inter-symbol interference.
Ultimately, this culminated in the BDXL (or Blu-ray Disc eXtra Large) standard announced around mid-2010 offering 100GB (triple-layer, recordable and re-recordable) or 128GB (quadruple-layer, recordable) and mostly requiring new equipment to record and play. This would be something I considered the optical discs’ last hurrah and this same linear density is what’s used in UHD Blu-ray discs for the BD66, BD100 formats.
That same year in 2010, Pioneer and Buffalo drives were being readied for the market and it seems TDK was early to the market with a three-layer BDXL recordable disc. It wouldn’t be until 2018 that Sony was to arrive with a quad-layer BDXL recordable disc. In 2011, a review was already up of the Pioneer drive running with the TDK BDXL disc and all seemed to be working just fine.
Since then, I’ve dreamed of having BDXL in my arsenal. At least, it would mean handling fewer discs for the same amount of data and with any luck, it should be of higher-quality with reputable media that is unlikely to be quickly turned into a commodity. But the problem was price – locally, discs were sold for upwards of AU$50 a piece for many years making them uneconomical to purchase. I obtained my LG BH16NS55 in part because I felt like BDXL support would become more important, but it seems demand for the format just never materialised and prices never went down. Nowadays, BDXL blanks are not even sold locally at all, while the size and speed of storage has increased noticeably since 2010 such that even the most affordable microSD cards can store as much as a quad-layer BDXL disc, faster and for an even cheaper price (with rewritability, but less long-term archival endurance).
Now that most of the manufacturers are running away from optical discs entirely, where did BDXL get to? Thanks to a reader, they let me know that officially registered media codes can be found at https://blu-raydisc.info/licensee-list/discmanuid-licenseelist.php. At the time of publication, the media code lists for BDXL are as follows:
It makes clear just how much of an art it is to manufacture quadruple-layer BDXL discs, with only Sony and TDK ever seemingly achieving this feat. Triple-layer BDXL is comparably more accessible, with more mainstream manufacturers being listed, but also some Chinese companies as well. Whether the latter actually marketed any products is not known, but a better indication of discs one could possibly encounter can be found from the Pioneer media support lists.
Despite the long list of codes that were officially registered, the Pioneer BDR-X13-series drives can only write to four types of BD-R (TL), one type of BD-R (QL) and two types of BD-RE (TL). Where the media codes are not in the list, the drive simply will not write to them. That’s not many types at all and is probably a more representative list of the media that is actually available on the market.
Going Shopping
Knowing what I know now, I have probably left this experiment a bit late. At the time I was in Japan (in March-April of this year), Sony hadn’t yet announced their winding-down of their recordable discs endeavour. But even then, I knew things were not going well.
Browsing Japanese retailer sites was a bit of a grim situation. I tried PCOnes, Yodobashi and Bic Camera – searching for 128GB BD-R, it seems the results are almost universally Sony. Perhaps I’m too late for TDK or it never really made it. Prices aren’t particularly palatable, but definitely not as bad as what was formerly charged locally. After currency conversion, prices would be around $9-17 per disc depending on the volume. Looking for 100GB BD-R, there were more variety to choose from, but it seems the “variety” was all the same – Verbatim, Mitsubishi and Victor branded packages were all the same stuff based on reading their packages carefully as they were undergoing brand consolidation at the time. There was Maxell in some places, but we know that to be Ritek now, and Ritek themselves are also on the market under their own Ridata brand.
I’ll apologise for taking a photo inside their shop – but I couldn’t help it. I was moved to see just how much prominence was given to Sony’s BDXL 128GB quad-layer BD-R achievement. In most shops I visited, there was a stand of some sort showing off their discs and indicating explicitly that they were Made in Japan, extolling the virtue of being able to store more data in less space – a key selling point in Japan.
To avoid thefts, the boxes were often just empty display boxes. I was quite surprised this was the case, given how “safe” Japan is, generally speaking. But even then, there was no lack of shelf space devoted to them. However, in all my time perusing the shop, I didn’t see a single person even approach the stand or pick up any optical media. For a country like Japan, where often legacy equipment persists and is used well-past its use-by date, this was a bad sign. Perhaps the death of optical media is really upon us. All of the stores seemed happy enough to sell me the media, even if it took them a little while to find the correct one from their warehouse.
The Haul
Having spent a not-inconsiderable amount on my external Blu-ray writer, I wasn’t quite in the mood to buy a large batch of media, despite knowing that such discs may not be too long for this world. To get them back home was hard enough … the suitcase was jammed tight with stuff! Because I wanted to be sure of the mediacodes before I left, in case I wanted to purchase more, I had unpacked some of the media which explains why the images of the packaging are so crinkled! I just couldn’t wait until the blog …
HiDisc 100GB BD-R (Triple Layer)
The first set of discs was this five-pack from Hidisc. This was an economical option, purchased from my favourite media shop, MagLab. Being one of their own brands, this was almost certainly a rebadge, but at ~AU$29 for five discs or AU$5.80 each, it seemed like a steal. The discs were packed in their own slim cases, slightly warped by the tight colour-print cellophane wrapping. The item number is HDVBR100YP5SC with a barcode number of 4984279140772.
Each disc has a printable top surface with no branding. The underside had a relatively deep blue centre (almost like a rewritable disc) with a green-blue-grey recording surface and slightly golden edge. But hold-on a second … what is that?!
Yep. That’s a defect. A physical hole, at least through one layer of the disc. This is bad news. I checked under the microscope …
… it turns out two of five discs in the batch had a hole in their recording surface. These seem to be mixed/reject discs by the looks of it, making this a bit of a regrettable purchase.
You may be wondering who is behind these discs …
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unique Disc Identifier : [BD-R-3L:VERBAT-IMk-000] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disc Type : [BD-R 3L : Class 1 - Version 2] Manufacturer Name : [Manufacturer Not Found In Database] Manufacturer ID : [VERBAT] Media Type ID : [IMk] Product Revision : [000] Stamper Date : [Not Present On Disc] Layer Info : [3 Layers (L0-L2) : 497.12 GB (462.98 GiB) Per Layer] Blank Disc Capacity : [728,202,096 Sectors = 1,491.36 GB (1,388.94 GiB)] Recording Speeds : [?x] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** INFO : Hex Dump Of 'Media Code'-Block Listed Below ** INFO : 4-Byte Header Preceding 'Media Code'-Block Discarded ** INFO : Format 00h - Disc Information 0000 : 44 49 05 30 00 00 60 00 42 44 52 12 32 05 00 00 DI.0..`.BDR.2... 0010 : 01 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 21 13 7e 00 02 e2 78 78 ........!.~...xx 0020 : 00 01 06 56 71 86 02 3e 1d 5f 28 28 18 10 10 54 ...Vq..>._((...T 0030 : 54 54 3c 3c c4 d8 d8 68 68 a0 a0 a8 ac ac 00 00 TT<<...hh....... 0040 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0050 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0060 : 00 00 00 00 56 45 52 42 41 54 49 4d 6b 00 00 00 ....VERBATIMk... 0070 : 44 49 05 31 00 01 60 00 42 44 52 12 32 05 00 00 DI.1..`.BDR.2... 0080 : 01 00 00 00 5e ec 80 00 7d ff fe 00 02 e2 78 78 ....^...}.....xx 0090 : 00 00 f6 5f 74 8c 02 38 1e 5f 40 40 30 20 20 5c ..._t..8._@@0 \ 00a0 : 5c 5c 48 48 c8 e0 e0 78 78 a0 a0 a8 b0 b0 00 00 \\HH...xx....... 00b0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 00c0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 00d0 : 00 00 00 00 56 45 52 42 41 54 49 4d 6b 00 00 00 ....VERBATIMk... 00e0 : 44 49 05 32 00 02 60 00 42 44 52 12 32 05 00 00 DI.2..`.BDR.2... 00f0 : 01 00 00 00 82 00 00 00 a1 13 7e 00 02 e2 6e 6e ..........~...nn 0100 : 00 00 f0 5a 77 89 02 3c 1c 5f 48 48 38 20 20 60 ...Zw..<._HH8 ` 0110 : 60 60 50 50 c4 dc dc 78 78 a0 a0 a8 b0 b0 00 00 ``PP...xx....... 0120 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0130 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0140 : 00 00 00 00 56 45 52 42 41 54 49 4d 6b 00 00 00 ....VERBATIMk... 0150 : 44 49 05 30 00 03 60 00 42 44 52 12 32 05 00 00 DI.0..`.BDR.2... 0160 : 01 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 21 13 7e 00 05 c3 aa aa ........!.~..... 0170 : 00 01 a0 4c 72 7e 01 40 1e 5f 38 38 28 18 18 58 ...Lr~.@._88(..X 0180 : 58 58 44 44 c8 dc dc 70 70 a0 a0 a0 ac ac 00 00 XXDD...pp....... 0190 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 01a0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 01b0 : 00 00 00 00 56 45 52 42 41 54 49 4d 6b 00 00 00 ....VERBATIMk... 01c0 : 44 49 05 31 00 04 60 00 42 44 52 12 32 05 00 00 DI.1..`.BDR.2... 01d0 : 01 00 00 00 5e ec 80 00 7d ff fe 00 05 c3 aa aa ....^...}....... 01e0 : 00 01 86 52 79 85 01 39 1f 5f 48 48 38 28 28 5c ...Ry..9._HH8((\ 01f0 : 5c 60 48 48 cc e0 e0 78 78 a0 a0 a0 a8 a8 00 00 \`HH...xx....... 0200 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0210 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0220 : 00 00 00 00 56 45 52 42 41 54 49 4d 6b 00 00 00 ....VERBATIMk... 0230 : 44 49 05 32 00 05 60 00 42 44 52 12 32 05 00 00 DI.2..`.BDR.2... 0240 : 01 00 00 00 82 00 00 00 a1 13 7e 00 05 c3 9b 9b ..........~..... 0250 : 00 01 92 54 76 85 01 3d 1f 5f 48 48 38 28 28 60 ...Tv..=._HH8((` 0260 : 60 60 50 50 c4 dc dc 78 78 a0 a0 a0 ac ac 00 00 ``PP...xx....... 0270 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0280 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0290 : 00 00 00 00 56 45 52 42 41 54 49 4d 6b 00 00 00 ....VERBATIMk... 02a0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ [all null from here] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- [ DVD Identifier V5.2.0 - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
They are carrying the VERBAT-IMk-000 media code, making them CMC Magnetics products nowadays. The Imgburn output is as follows:
PIONEER BD-RW BDR-X13 1.03 (USB) Current Profile: BD-R Disc Information: Status: Empty State of Last Session: Empty Erasable: No Free Sectors: 48,878,592 Free Space: 100,103,356,416 bytes Free Time: 10861:56:42 (MM:SS:FF) Next Writable Address: 0 MID: VERBAT-IMk-000 Supported Write Speeds: 2x, 4x, 6x BD Disc Information (L0): Disc ID: VERBAT-IMk-000 Disc Type: BD-R Disc Size: 120 mm Disc Class: 1 Disc Version: 2 Number of Layers: 3 Layer Type: Writable DVD Layer Present: No CD Layer Present: No Channel Bit Length: 55.87 nm (33 GB Per Layer) Push-Pull Polarity: Positive Recorded Mark Polarity: HTL BCA Present: Yes Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified First PAA of Data Zone: 554,925,568 Last PAA of Data Zone: 48,396,408 BD Disc Information (L1): Disc ID: VERBAT-IMk-000 Disc Type: BD-R Disc Size: 120 mm Disc Class: 1 Disc Version: 2 Number of Layers: 3 Layer Type: Writable DVD Layer Present: No CD Layer Present: No Channel Bit Length: 55.87 nm (33 GB Per Layer) Push-Pull Polarity: Positive Recorded Mark Polarity: HTL BCA Present: Yes Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified First PAA of Data Zone: 2,113,928,704 Last PAA of Data Zone: 48,396,408 BD Disc Information (L2): Disc ID: VERBAT-IMk-000 Disc Type: BD-R Disc Size: 120 mm Disc Class: 1 Disc Version: 2 Number of Layers: 3 Layer Type: Writable DVD Layer Present: No CD Layer Present: No Channel Bit Length: 55.87 nm (33 GB Per Layer) Push-Pull Polarity: Positive Recorded Mark Polarity: HTL BCA Present: Yes Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified First PAA of Data Zone: 2,702,409,216 Last PAA of Data Zone: 48,393,838 Format Capacities: DT: 0x01 - NB: 48878592 (0x02E9D400) - TDP: 565248 FT: 0x00 - NB: 47305728 (0x02D1D400) - TDP: 49152 FT: 0x32 - NB: 47305728 (0x02D1D400) - TDP: 0 FT: 0x32 - NB: 30790656 (0x01D5D400) - TDP: 0 FT: 0x32 - NB: 48854016 (0x02E97400) - TDP: 0 Performance (Write Speed): Descriptor 1... -> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00 -> EL: 48878591 (0x02E9D3FF) -> RS: 8,990 KB/s (2x) - WS: 8,990 KB/s (2x) Descriptor 2... -> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00 -> EL: 48878591 (0x02E9D3FF) -> RS: 17,980 KB/s (4x) - WS: 17,980 KB/s (4x) Descriptor 3... -> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00 -> EL: 48878591 (0x02E9D3FF) -> RS: 26,970 KB/s (6x) - WS: 26,970 KB/s (6x)
Verbatim 100GB BD-R (Triple Layer)
I picked up a Mitsubishi package from the shelf, but the salesperson came back with this Verbatim package and an explainer that the brand consolidation had resulted in the packages changing. This one carries a product code of VBR520YP5D1-B and barcode number of 4991348083083. Interestingly, it seems the discs carry a three-year warranty from Verbatim Japan Ltd. which doesn’t fill me with confidence, but oddly enough this package costed me about the same as Hidisc at around AU$30 for five discs.
The five-pack was a thin colour-print cardboard box around five slim-cased discs. The rear of the box seems to indicate that support and distribution are handled by I-O Data and that the warranty is void outside of Japan. Well, I guess no warranty for me then …
The cases are subtly different from the Hidisc but the top and bottom are pretty much the same.
The relatively dark surface of the disc makes the stamper codes hard to see. Only by using my digital microscope with my light at a very oblique angle could I see just a small slice of them at a time. The above is the result of taking 40 separate images and hand-aligning them to allow the codes to be seen. This disc had already been burned and ended up getting very dusty through trying to get the microscope adjusted in my not-very-clean room. The three layers each have their own code –
CC5800-MK-BX4F070,
CD1820-MK-BX4E070 and
CC7430-MK-BX4D041.
None of these discs seemed to have a hole in them, so a much better buy than the Hidisc. No surprise – it had exactly the same media code as the Hidisc.
Verbatim 100GB M-Disc BD-R (Triple Layer)
Seeing all the kerfuffle my oft-misinterpreted M-Disc BD-R post caused, I would be remiss if I didn’t give the BDXL version a try. It has been said by many that the M-Discs are the same as non-M-Discs due to having identical media codes, so I thought it would be good to check. Seeing as I don’t have bottomless pockets, I could only justify purchasing one sample at the cost of ~AU$14 each. This one came in its own full-size jewel case.
The inlay card provides some handling precautions and space to write some information about the disc’s contents.
The rear shows, schematically, the design of the disc including the use of an inorganic metal ablative layer (MABL), which seemed to be a common feature of regular Verbatim BD-R discs in the past. The disc carries a product code of VBR520YMDP1V1 with barcode number 4991348085902. It too is a product of Verbatim Japan and distributed by I-O Data with warranty void outside of Japan.
The disc itself has a white printable top but with branding on the outer edge. The underside seems a bit different, having a slightly brighter gold colour with a grey border and deep blue centre.
It too carries exactly the same media code as the Verbatim and Hidisc products above, down to the last bit. But given there is a colour difference and it seems that it is “inverted”, there is a chance there is some structural difference with the disc in terms of its layering. That being said, I have had subsequent batches of ordinary Verbatim single-layer MABL BD-R have subtle colour differences, so I can’t be entirely sure.
Because of the expense of this disc and the fact it has the same media code, I’ve decided to withhold burning it until I have decided what valuable data I want to write onto it. Because dust is a major contributor to bad burns, I won’t be imaging this one under the microscope until it is burned … exactly when, I don’t know.
Ritek 100GB BD-R (Triple Layer)
Well, this one’s definitely not going to be Verbatim. The RiData product comes from Ritek (or RiJapan), perhaps the only other major manufacturer I can manage to find in Japan as of my current visit. This is a three-pack, also packaged in slim cases. The package has an item code of BD-R520PW4X.3P SC A and barcode number of 4719303552647. It cost me about ~AU$13 for three discs or about $4.33 each which is quite economical compared to the others.
These discs have white printable surface on top, with just BD-R XL 4X in black on the rim, without the mention of a manufacturer. The underside shows a light-golden-brown on the inside and out, with a more ashy-grey-gold recording area not dissimilar to that of the Verbatim.
The mediacode data is as follows:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unique Disc Identifier : [BD-R-3L:RITEK-TL2-000] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disc Type : [BD-R 3L : Class 1 - Version 2] Manufacturer Name : [Manufacturer Not Found In Database] Manufacturer ID : [RITEK] Media Type ID : [TL2] Product Revision : [000] Stamper Date : [Not Present On Disc] Layer Info : [3 Layers (L0-L2) : 497.12 GB (462.98 GiB) Per Layer] Blank Disc Capacity : [728,202,096 Sectors = 1,491.36 GB (1,388.94 GiB)] Recording Speeds : [?x] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** INFO : Hex Dump Of 'Media Code'-Block Listed Below ** INFO : 4-Byte Header Preceding 'Media Code'-Block Discarded ** INFO : Format 00h - Disc Information 0000 : 44 49 05 30 00 00 60 00 42 44 52 12 32 05 00 00 DI.0..`.BDR.2... 0010 : 01 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 21 13 7e 00 02 e2 78 78 ........!.~...xx 0020 : 00 00 fa 61 75 81 01 3b 1c 7d 30 30 18 10 18 54 ...au..;.}00...T 0030 : 54 50 3c 40 c4 dc dc 68 68 a8 a8 b4 b8 b8 00 00 TP<@...hh....... 0040 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0050 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0060 : 00 00 00 00 52 49 54 45 4b 00 54 4c 32 00 00 00 ....RITEK.TL2... 0070 : 44 49 05 31 00 01 60 00 42 44 52 12 32 05 00 00 DI.1..`.BDR.2... 0080 : 01 00 00 00 5e ec 80 00 7d ff fe 00 02 e2 78 78 ....^...}.....xx 0090 : 00 01 1c 4c 72 82 01 3c 1b 7d 40 40 28 28 30 58 ...Lr..<.}@@((0X 00a0 : 58 58 44 44 c0 d8 d8 68 68 ac ac ac b0 b0 00 00 XXDD...hh....... 00b0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 00c0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 00d0 : 00 00 00 00 52 49 54 45 4b 00 54 4c 32 00 00 00 ....RITEK.TL2... 00e0 : 44 49 05 32 00 02 60 00 42 44 52 12 32 05 00 00 DI.2..`.BDR.2... 00f0 : 01 00 00 00 82 00 00 00 a1 13 7e 00 02 e2 6e 6e ..........~...nn 0100 : 00 01 44 62 70 86 01 35 1c 7d 40 40 30 20 28 60 ..Dbp..5.}@@0 (` 0110 : 60 60 4c 4c bc d4 d4 70 70 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 00 00 ``LL...pp....... 0120 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0130 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0140 : 00 00 00 00 52 49 54 45 4b 00 54 4c 32 00 00 00 ....RITEK.TL2... 0150 : 44 49 05 30 00 03 60 00 42 44 52 12 32 05 00 00 DI.0..`.BDR.2... 0160 : 01 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 21 13 7e 00 05 c3 aa aa ........!.~..... 0170 : 00 01 8c 5e 72 80 01 41 1d 7d 38 38 28 18 18 5c ...^r..A.}88(..\ 0180 : 5c 58 48 48 c0 d4 d4 68 68 a0 a0 a8 b0 b0 00 00 \XHH...hh....... 0190 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 01a0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 01b0 : 00 00 00 00 52 49 54 45 4b 00 54 4c 32 00 00 00 ....RITEK.TL2... 01c0 : 44 49 05 31 00 04 60 00 42 44 52 12 32 05 00 00 DI.1..`.BDR.2... 01d0 : 01 00 00 00 5e ec 80 00 7d ff fe 00 05 c3 aa aa ....^...}....... 01e0 : 00 01 db 4c 72 82 01 3c 1d 7d 48 48 30 28 28 5c ...Lr..<.}HH0((\ 01f0 : 5c 5c 48 48 c8 dc dc 70 70 a0 a0 a4 ac ac 00 00 \\HH...pp....... 0200 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0210 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0220 : 00 00 00 00 52 49 54 45 4b 00 54 4c 32 00 00 00 ....RITEK.TL2... 0230 : 44 49 05 32 00 05 60 00 42 44 52 12 32 05 00 00 DI.2..`.BDR.2... 0240 : 01 00 00 00 82 00 00 00 a1 13 7e 00 05 c3 9b 9b ..........~..... 0250 : 00 01 e6 4a 70 7e 01 46 1b 7d 50 50 38 30 30 64 ...Jp~.F.}PP800d 0260 : 64 60 50 50 bc d4 d0 70 70 a4 a4 a4 a4 a4 00 00 d`PP...pp....... 0270 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0280 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0290 : 00 00 00 00 52 49 54 45 4b 00 54 4c 32 00 00 00 ....RITEK.TL2... 02a0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ [all null from here] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- [ DVD Identifier V5.2.0 - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Imgburn also says the following:
PIONEER BD-RW BDR-X13 1.03 (USB) Current Profile: BD-R Disc Information: Status: Empty State of Last Session: Empty Erasable: No Free Sectors: 48,878,592 Free Space: 100,103,356,416 bytes Free Time: 10861:56:42 (MM:SS:FF) Next Writable Address: 0 MID: RITEK-TL2-000 Supported Write Speeds: 2x, 4x, 6x BD Disc Information (L0): Disc ID: RITEK-TL2-000 Disc Type: BD-R Disc Size: 120 mm Disc Class: 1 Disc Version: 2 Number of Layers: 3 Layer Type: Writable DVD Layer Present: No CD Layer Present: No Channel Bit Length: 55.87 nm (33 GB Per Layer) Push-Pull Polarity: Positive Recorded Mark Polarity: HTL BCA Present: Yes Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified First PAA of Data Zone: 554,925,568 Last PAA of Data Zone: 48,396,408 BD Disc Information (L1): Disc ID: RITEK-TL2-000 Disc Type: BD-R Disc Size: 120 mm Disc Class: 1 Disc Version: 2 Number of Layers: 3 Layer Type: Writable DVD Layer Present: No CD Layer Present: No Channel Bit Length: 55.87 nm (33 GB Per Layer) Push-Pull Polarity: Positive Recorded Mark Polarity: HTL BCA Present: Yes Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified First PAA of Data Zone: 2,113,928,704 Last PAA of Data Zone: 48,396,408 BD Disc Information (L2): Disc ID: RITEK-TL2-000 Disc Type: BD-R Disc Size: 120 mm Disc Class: 1 Disc Version: 2 Number of Layers: 3 Layer Type: Writable DVD Layer Present: No CD Layer Present: No Channel Bit Length: 55.87 nm (33 GB Per Layer) Push-Pull Polarity: Positive Recorded Mark Polarity: HTL BCA Present: Yes Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified First PAA of Data Zone: 2,702,409,216 Last PAA of Data Zone: 48,393,838 Format Capacities: DT: 0x01 - NB: 48878592 (0x02E9D400) - TDP: 565248 FT: 0x00 - NB: 47305728 (0x02D1D400) - TDP: 49152 FT: 0x32 - NB: 47305728 (0x02D1D400) - TDP: 0 FT: 0x32 - NB: 30790656 (0x01D5D400) - TDP: 0 FT: 0x32 - NB: 48854016 (0x02E97400) - TDP: 0 Performance (Write Speed): Descriptor 1... -> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00 -> EL: 48878591 (0x02E9D3FF) -> RS: 8,990 KB/s (2x) - WS: 8,990 KB/s (2x) Descriptor 2... -> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00 -> EL: 48878591 (0x02E9D3FF) -> RS: 17,980 KB/s (4x) - WS: 17,980 KB/s (4x) Descriptor 3... -> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00 -> EL: 48878591 (0x02E9D3FF) -> RS: 26,970 KB/s (6x) - WS: 26,970 KB/s (6x)
Putting the disc under the microscope, it was a little easier to get a good view of the stamper codes as this disc seemed more reflective and less angle-dependent in this area. This still involved a lot of time manually stitching images together.
The layers are clearly visible and their stamper codes are in sequence – RBD04TRL0-4E_D 001,
RBD04TRL1-4E_D 001 and
RBD04TRL2-4E_D 001.
Aside from these codes, there also seems to be a logo with the letters M4K3 next to it – I’m not sure what that is (perhaps related to the production machinery). There is also a datamatrix code and the letters M20Z210A4K10546 marked on the inner hub area.
Sony 100GB BD-RE (Triple Layer)
While Sony’s quadruple-layer BDXL BD-Rs had all the focus in the stores, it seems there wasn’t much in the way of triple-layer action, except for these BD-REs. Packaged with a gold-coloured wrap to distinguish them from the BD-Rs, they clearly advertise their 100GB capacity on the front. This particular pack was the three-pack, product code 3BNE3VEPS2 with barcode number 4548736119956. The cost was about AU$36, or about AU$12 per disc, which is a little on the high side but perhaps worth it considering it was rewritable (and I might be able to save wasting a BD-R here or there thanks to that). A key downside is the 2x recording speed, which is going to take a long time to fill a disc.
The disc had a printable top with branding on the edge indicating “Sony Corporation BD-RE XL 100GB 2x”. The underside had dark blue edges with a dark pink-grey-brown recording area.
This set of discs also came with a label sheet with handling precautions on the rear.
The Media ID information was as follows:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Unique Disc Identifier : [BD-RE-3L:SONY-ET2-002] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Disc Type : [BD-RE 3L : Class 1 - Version 3] Manufacturer Name : [Manufacturer Not Found In Database] Manufacturer ID : [SONY] Media Type ID : [ET2] Product Revision : [002] Stamper Date : [Not Present On Disc] Layer Info : [3 Layers (L0-L2) : 497.22 GB (463.07 GiB) Per Layer] Blank Disc Capacity : [728,350,128 Sectors = 1,491.66 GB (1,389.22 GiB)] Recording Speeds : [?x] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ** INFO : Hex Dump Of 'Media Code'-Block Listed Below ** INFO : 4-Byte Header Preceding 'Media Code'-Block Discarded ** INFO : Format 00h - Disc Information 0000 : 44 49 04 30 00 00 63 00 42 44 57 13 34 05 00 00 DI.0..c.BDW.4... 0010 : 01 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 21 13 7e 00 02 e2 90 90 ........!.~..... 0020 : 00 01 86 46 87 02 02 6e 1f 00 58 f0 f0 00 04 04 ...F...n..X..... 0030 : 2c 2c 2c 30 30 04 00 00 50 58 58 f0 f0 f2 f0 f0 ,,,00...PXX..... 0040 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0050 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 fc fc ff f0 00 00 ................ 0060 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 45 54 32 00 00 02 ....SONY..ET2... 0070 : 44 49 04 30 00 01 63 00 42 44 57 13 34 05 00 00 DI.0..c.BDW.4... 0080 : 01 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 21 13 7e 00 02 e2 90 90 ........!.~..... 0090 : 00 01 86 46 87 02 02 6e 1f 00 58 ec ec 00 04 04 ...F...n..X..... 00a0 : 30 30 30 30 30 00 00 00 58 58 58 ec ec ee f0 f0 00000...XXX..... 00b0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 00c0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 fc fc ff f0 00 00 ................ 00d0 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 45 54 32 00 00 02 ....SONY..ET2... 00e0 : 44 49 04 31 00 02 63 00 42 44 57 13 34 05 00 00 DI.1..c.BDW.4... 00f0 : 01 00 00 00 5e ec 80 00 7d ff fe 00 02 e2 90 90 ....^...}....... 0100 : 00 01 8c 46 75 02 02 42 24 00 60 0c 10 0c 00 04 ...Fu..B$.`..... 0110 : 30 30 30 34 34 fc 00 00 60 60 60 1c 1c 12 14 14 00044...```..... 0120 : 00 04 04 11 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0130 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 f8 f8 ee e0 00 00 ................ 0140 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 45 54 32 00 00 02 ....SONY..ET2... 0150 : 44 49 04 31 00 03 63 00 42 44 57 13 34 05 00 00 DI.1..c.BDW.4... 0160 : 01 00 00 00 5e ec 80 00 7d ff fe 00 02 e2 90 90 ....^...}....... 0170 : 00 01 8c 46 85 02 02 42 24 00 60 fc 00 fc 00 04 ...F...B$.`..... 0180 : 34 34 34 34 34 00 00 00 60 60 60 12 12 14 14 14 44444...```..... 0190 : 00 04 04 11 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 01a0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 f8 f8 ee e0 00 00 ................ 01b0 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 45 54 32 00 00 02 ....SONY..ET2... 01c0 : 44 49 04 32 00 04 63 00 42 44 57 13 34 05 00 00 DI.2..c.BDW.4... 01d0 : 01 00 00 00 82 00 00 00 a1 13 7e 00 02 e2 64 64 ..........~...dd 01e0 : 00 00 b4 5c 79 02 02 41 1e 00 60 0c 1c 08 08 08 ...\y..A..`..... 01f0 : 34 34 34 34 34 fc fc f4 60 60 60 22 22 12 12 0e 44444...```""... 0200 : 00 04 00 11 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0210 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 f0 f0 ee e0 00 00 ................ 0220 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 45 54 32 00 00 02 ....SONY..ET2... 0230 : 44 49 04 32 00 05 63 00 42 44 57 13 34 05 00 00 DI.2..c.BDW.4... 0240 : 01 00 00 00 82 00 00 00 a1 13 7e 00 02 e2 64 64 ..........~...dd 0250 : 00 00 b4 5c 8a 02 02 45 1e 00 60 fc 00 fc 00 04 ...\...E..`..... 0260 : 34 34 34 34 34 00 00 00 60 60 60 12 12 14 14 14 44444...```..... 0270 : 00 04 04 11 10 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ 0280 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 f8 f8 ee e0 00 00 ................ 0290 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 45 54 32 00 00 02 ....SONY..ET2... 02a0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................ [all null from here] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- [ DVD Identifier V5.2.0 - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ] ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
The output from Imgburn was as follows:
PIONEER BD-RW BDR-X13 1.03 (USB) Current Profile: BD-RE Disc Information: Status: Empty State of Last Session: Empty Erasable: Yes MID: SONY-ET2-002 Supported Write Speeds: 2x BD Disc Information (L0): Disc ID: SONY-ET2-002 Disc Type: BD-RE Disc Size: 120 mm Disc Class: 1 Disc Version: 3 Number of Layers: 3 Layer Type: Rewritable DVD Layer Present: No CD Layer Present: No Channel Bit Length: 55.87 nm (33 GB Per Layer) BCA Present: Yes Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified First PAA of Data Zone: 554,925,568 Last PAA of Data Zone: 48,402,576 BD Disc Information (L1): Disc ID: SONY-ET2-002 Disc Type: BD-RE Disc Size: 120 mm Disc Class: 1 Disc Version: 3 Number of Layers: 3 Layer Type: Rewritable DVD Layer Present: No CD Layer Present: No Channel Bit Length: 55.87 nm (33 GB Per Layer) BCA Present: Yes Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified First PAA of Data Zone: 2,113,928,704 Last PAA of Data Zone: 48,402,576 BD Disc Information (L2): Disc ID: SONY-ET2-002 Disc Type: BD-RE Disc Size: 120 mm Disc Class: 1 Disc Version: 3 Number of Layers: 3 Layer Type: Rewritable DVD Layer Present: No CD Layer Present: No Channel Bit Length: 55.87 nm (33 GB Per Layer) BCA Present: Yes Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified First PAA of Data Zone: 2,702,409,216 Last PAA of Data Zone: 48,391,268 Format Capacities: DT: 0x01 - NB: 48878592 (0x02E9D400) - TDP: 65536 FT: 0x00 - NB: 47305728 (0x02D1D400) - TDP: 49152 FT: 0x30 - NB: 47305728 (0x02D1D400) - TDP: 49152 FT: 0x30 - NB: 46781440 (0x02C9D400) - TDP: 65536 FT: 0x30 - NB: 48854016 (0x02E97400) - TDP: 768 FT: 0x31 - NB: 48878592 (0x02E9D400) - TDP: 2048 Performance (Write Speed): Descriptor 1... -> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00 -> EL: 48878591 (0x02E9D3FF) -> RS: 8,990 KB/s (2x) - WS: 8,990 KB/s (2x)
Looking at the stamping codes at the middle …
… it seems each layer is also clearly identifiable although this time, the code from two of the layers partially overlap one another. The codes are of the format
TRW-0007-L0-2,
TRW-1013-L1-2 and
TRW-2501-L2-2. There is also another logo with the letters SCSM next to it.
Sony 128GB BD-R (Quadruple Layer)
Finally, it is time for the star of the show – the only quadruple-layer BDXL disc on the market I could find today. I purchased this three pack of Sony discs for about AU$40, or AU$13.33 per disc. This is a noticeable premium over the triple-layer media, which reflects its unique position on the market. This pack carries an item code of 3BNR4VAPS4 and barcode number 4548736093089.
Similarly to the above disc, it has a full printable surface with subtle branding on the edge stating “Sony Corporation BD-R XL 128GB 2-4X”. The underside, however, is a real treat being a bright light golden colour. It reminds me of the LTH BD-Rs (which aren’t great for archival and apparently have also ceased production), but I am assured that these are regular HTL discs.
They are also unusually translucent – from the underside with the disc on my black microscope stage, the branding print on the printable layer is clearly visible through the data side. It seems that a lot of “magic” has to happen to make the discs layers reflective enough for the drive to operate, but not so reflective that it cuts the light travelling into the deeper layers. This was truly a perplexing disc to hold because it was so unlike all the other discs I’ve previously handled.
The Media ID information is as follows:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [BD-R-4L:SONY-NQ1-001]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc Type : [BD-R 4L : Class 1 - Version 2]
Manufacturer Name : [Manufacturer Not Found In Database]
Manufacturer ID : [SONY]
Media Type ID : [NQ1]
Product Revision : [001]
Stamper Date : [Not Present On Disc]
Layer Info : [4 Layers (L0-L3) : 880.45 GB (819.98 GiB) Per Layer]
Blank Disc Capacity : [1,719,619,392 Sectors = 3,521.78 GB (3,279.91 GiB)]
Recording Speeds : [?x]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
** INFO : Hex Dump Of 'Media Code'-Block Listed Below
** INFO : 4-Byte Header Preceding 'Media Code'-Block Discarded
** INFO : Format 00h - Disc Information
0000 : 44 49 04 80 00 00 63 00 42 44 52 12 42 04 00 00 DI....c.BDR.B...
0010 : 01 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 1f cd 7e 00 03 01 78 78 ..........~...xx
0020 : 00 01 2a 58 73 01 01 2a 1c 64 80 48 48 38 38 38 ..*Xs..*.d.HH888
0030 : 78 78 78 78 78 00 00 00 80 80 80 d8 d8 d8 d8 d8 xxxxx...........
0040 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0050 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0060 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 4e 51 31 00 00 01 ....SONY..NQ1...
0070 : 44 49 04 80 00 01 63 00 42 44 52 12 42 04 00 00 DI....c.BDR.B...
0080 : 01 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 1f cd 7e 00 03 01 78 78 ..........~...xx
0090 : 00 01 2a 58 73 01 01 2a 1c 64 80 48 48 38 38 38 ..*Xs..*.d.HH888
00a0 : 78 78 78 78 78 00 00 00 80 80 80 d8 d8 d8 d8 d8 xxxxx...........
00b0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00c0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00d0 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 4e 51 31 00 00 01 ....SONY..NQ1...
00e0 : 44 49 04 81 00 02 63 00 42 44 52 12 42 04 00 00 DI....c.BDR.B...
00f0 : 01 00 00 00 60 32 80 00 7d ff fe 00 03 01 78 78 ....`2..}.....xx
0100 : 00 01 4c 51 6e 01 01 3d 1c 80 80 48 48 48 38 38 ..LQn..=...HHH88
0110 : 70 70 78 78 78 00 00 00 80 70 70 e8 e8 dc dc dc ppxxx....pp.....
0120 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0130 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0140 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 4e 51 31 00 00 01 ....SONY..NQ1...
0150 : 44 49 04 81 00 03 63 00 42 44 52 12 42 04 00 00 DI....c.BDR.B...
0160 : 01 00 00 00 60 32 80 00 7d ff fe 00 03 01 78 78 ....`2..}.....xx
0170 : 00 01 4c 51 6e 01 01 3d 1c 80 80 48 48 48 38 38 ..LQn..=...HHH88
0180 : 70 70 78 78 78 00 00 00 80 70 70 e8 e8 dc dc dc ppxxx....pp.....
0190 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
01a0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
01b0 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 4e 51 31 00 00 01 ....SONY..NQ1...
01c0 : 44 49 04 82 00 04 63 00 42 44 52 12 42 04 00 00 DI....c.BDR.B...
01d0 : 01 00 00 00 82 00 00 00 9f cd 7e 00 03 01 78 78 ..........~...xx
01e0 : 00 01 51 4a 72 01 01 3c 1c 8e 80 48 48 48 38 38 ..QJr..<...HHH88
01f0 : 70 70 78 78 78 00 00 00 80 70 70 e0 e0 d4 d4 d4 ppxxx....pp.....
0200 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0210 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0220 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 4e 51 31 00 00 01 ....SONY..NQ1...
0230 : 44 49 04 82 00 05 63 00 42 44 52 12 42 04 00 00 DI....c.BDR.B...
0240 : 01 00 00 00 82 00 00 00 9f cd 7e 00 03 01 78 78 ..........~...xx
0250 : 00 01 51 4a 72 01 01 3c 1c 8e 80 48 48 48 38 38 ..QJr..<...HHH88
0260 : 70 70 78 78 78 00 00 00 80 70 70 e0 e0 d4 d4 d4 ppxxx....pp.....
0270 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0280 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0290 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 4e 51 31 00 00 01 ....SONY..NQ1...
02a0 : 44 49 04 83 00 06 63 00 42 44 52 12 42 04 00 00 DI....c.BDR.B...
02b0 : 01 00 00 00 e0 32 80 00 fd ff fe 00 03 01 6e 6e .....2........nn
02c0 : 00 01 22 57 6d 01 01 3d 1d 9e 80 48 48 48 38 38 .."Wm..=...HHH88
02d0 : 70 70 78 78 78 00 00 00 80 70 70 e0 e0 d4 d4 d4 ppxxx....pp.....
02e0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
02f0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0300 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 4e 51 31 00 00 01 ....SONY..NQ1...
0310 : 44 49 04 83 00 07 63 00 42 44 52 12 42 04 00 00 DI....c.BDR.B...
0320 : 01 00 00 00 e0 32 80 00 fd ff fe 00 03 01 6e 6e .....2........nn
0330 : 00 01 22 57 79 01 01 3d 1d 9e 80 48 48 48 38 38 .."Wy..=...HHH88
0340 : 70 70 78 78 78 00 00 00 80 70 70 e0 e0 d4 d4 d4 ppxxx....pp.....
0350 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0360 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0370 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 4e 51 31 00 00 01 ....SONY..NQ1...
0380 : 44 49 05 80 00 08 60 00 42 44 52 12 42 04 00 00 DI....`.BDR.B...
0390 : 01 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 1f cd 7e 00 06 02 aa aa ..........~.....
03a0 : 00 01 55 52 7c 92 01 3c 1d 75 50 50 48 40 40 70 ..UR|..<.uPPH@@p
03b0 : 70 60 58 58 b0 c8 c4 70 70 a8 a8 a8 a8 a8 00 00 p`XX...pp.......
03c0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
03d0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
03e0 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 4e 51 31 00 00 01 ....SONY..NQ1...
03f0 : 44 49 05 80 00 09 60 00 42 44 52 12 42 04 00 00 DI....`.BDR.B...
0400 : 01 00 00 00 02 00 00 00 1f cd 7e 00 06 02 aa aa ..........~.....
0410 : 00 01 55 52 71 92 01 3c 1d 75 50 50 48 40 40 70 ..URq..<.uPPH@@p
0420 : 70 60 58 58 b0 c8 c4 70 70 a8 a8 a8 a8 a8 00 00 p`XX...pp.......
0430 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0440 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0450 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 4e 51 31 00 00 01 ....SONY..NQ1...
0460 : 44 49 05 81 00 0a 60 00 42 44 52 12 42 04 00 00 DI....`.BDR.B...
0470 : 01 00 00 00 60 32 80 00 7d ff fe 00 06 02 aa aa ....`2..}.......
0480 : 00 01 88 4e 87 93 01 43 1d 6f 50 50 48 48 48 70 ...N...C.oPPHHHp
0490 : 70 60 50 50 b8 c8 cc 60 60 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 00 00 p`PP...``.......
04a0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
04b0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
04c0 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 4e 51 31 00 00 01 ....SONY..NQ1...
04d0 : 44 49 05 81 00 0b 60 00 42 44 52 12 42 04 00 00 DI....`.BDR.B...
04e0 : 01 00 00 00 60 32 80 00 7d ff fe 00 06 02 aa aa ....`2..}.......
04f0 : 00 01 88 4e 70 93 01 43 1d 6f 50 50 48 48 48 70 ...Np..C.oPPHHHp
0500 : 70 60 50 50 b8 c8 cc 60 60 a0 a0 a0 a0 a0 00 00 p`PP...``.......
0510 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0520 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0530 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 4e 51 31 00 00 01 ....SONY..NQ1...
0540 : 44 49 05 82 00 0c 60 00 42 44 52 12 42 04 00 00 DI....`.BDR.B...
0550 : 01 00 00 00 82 00 00 00 9f cd 7e 00 06 02 aa aa ..........~.....
0560 : 00 01 8c 4b 72 92 01 42 1d 7b 50 50 48 48 48 70 ...Kr..B.{PPHHHp
0570 : 70 64 54 54 b8 c8 c8 60 60 94 94 94 94 94 00 00 pdTT...``.......
0580 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0590 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
05a0 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 4e 51 31 00 00 01 ....SONY..NQ1...
05b0 : 44 49 05 82 00 0d 60 00 42 44 52 12 42 04 00 00 DI....`.BDR.B...
05c0 : 01 00 00 00 82 00 00 00 9f cd 7e 00 06 02 aa aa ..........~.....
05d0 : 00 01 8c 4b 72 92 01 42 1d 7b 50 50 48 48 48 70 ...Kr..B.{PPHHHp
05e0 : 70 64 54 54 b8 c8 c8 60 60 94 94 94 94 94 00 00 pdTT...``.......
05f0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0600 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0610 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 4e 51 31 00 00 01 ....SONY..NQ1...
0620 : 44 49 05 83 00 0e 60 00 42 44 52 12 42 04 00 00 DI....`.BDR.B...
0630 : 01 00 00 00 e0 32 80 00 fd ff fe 00 06 02 9b 9b .....2..........
0640 : 00 01 47 54 82 93 01 47 1d 9c 50 50 48 48 48 70 ..GT...G..PPHHHp
0650 : 70 64 54 54 b8 c8 c8 60 60 94 94 94 94 94 00 00 pdTT...``.......
0660 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0670 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
0680 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 4e 51 31 00 00 01 ....SONY..NQ1...
0690 : 44 49 05 83 00 0f 60 00 42 44 52 12 42 04 00 00 DI....`.BDR.B...
06a0 : 01 00 00 00 e0 32 80 00 fd ff fe 00 06 02 9b 9b .....2..........
06b0 : 00 01 47 54 7c 93 01 47 1d 9c 50 50 48 48 48 70 ..GT|..G..PPHHHp
06c0 : 70 64 54 54 b8 c8 c8 60 60 94 94 94 94 94 00 00 pdTT...``.......
06d0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
06e0 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
06f0 : 00 00 00 00 53 4f 4e 59 00 00 4e 51 31 00 00 01 ....SONY..NQ1...
0700 : 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
[all null from here]
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[ DVD Identifier V5.2.0 - http://DVD.Identifier.CDfreaks.com ]
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The Imgburn output is as follows:
PIONEER BD-RW BDR-X13 1.03 (USB) Current Profile: BD-R Disc Information: Status: Empty State of Last Session: Empty Erasable: No Free Sectors: 62,500,864 Free Space: 128,001,769,472 bytes Free Time: 13889:06:64 (MM:SS:FF) Next Writable Address: 0 MID: SONY-NQ1-001 Supported Write Speeds: 2x, 4x, 6x BD Disc Information (L0): Disc ID: SONY-NQ1-001 Disc Type: BD-R Disc Size: 120 mm Disc Class: 1 Disc Version: 2 Number of Layers: 4 Layer Type: Writable DVD Layer Present: No CD Layer Present: No Channel Bit Length: 58.25 nm (32 GB Per Layer) Push-Pull Polarity: Positive Recorded Mark Polarity: HTL BCA Present: Yes Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified First PAA of Data Zone: 533,560,832 Last PAA of Data Zone: 50,428,024 BD Disc Information (L1): Disc ID: SONY-NQ1-001 Disc Type: BD-R Disc Size: 120 mm Disc Class: 1 Disc Version: 2 Number of Layers: 4 Layer Type: Writable DVD Layer Present: No CD Layer Present: No Channel Bit Length: 58.25 nm (32 GB Per Layer) Push-Pull Polarity: Positive Recorded Mark Polarity: HTL BCA Present: Yes Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified First PAA of Data Zone: 2,113,928,704 Last PAA of Data Zone: 50,428,024 BD Disc Information (L2): Disc ID: SONY-NQ1-001 Disc Type: BD-R Disc Size: 120 mm Disc Class: 1 Disc Version: 2 Number of Layers: 4 Layer Type: Writable DVD Layer Present: No CD Layer Present: No Channel Bit Length: 58.25 nm (32 GB Per Layer) Push-Pull Polarity: Positive Recorded Mark Polarity: HTL BCA Present: Yes Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified First PAA of Data Zone: 2,681,044,480 Last PAA of Data Zone: 50,428,024 BD Disc Information (L3): Disc ID: SONY-NQ1-001 Disc Type: BD-R Disc Size: 120 mm Disc Class: 1 Disc Version: 2 Number of Layers: 4 Layer Type: Writable DVD Layer Present: No CD Layer Present: No Channel Bit Length: 58.25 nm (32 GB Per Layer) Push-Pull Polarity: Positive Recorded Mark Polarity: HTL BCA Present: Yes Maximum Transfer Rate: Not Specified First PAA of Data Zone: 4,261,412,352 Last PAA of Data Zone: 50,425,454 Format Capacities: DT: 0x01 - NB: 62500864 (0x03B9B000) - TDP: 1089536 FT: 0x00 - NB: 60403712 (0x0399B000) - TDP: 65536 FT: 0x32 - NB: 60403712 (0x0399B000) - TDP: 0 FT: 0x32 - NB: 27635712 (0x01A5B000) - TDP: 0 FT: 0x32 - NB: 62476288 (0x03B95000) - TDP: 0 Performance (Write Speed): Descriptor 1... -> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00 -> EL: 62500863 (0x03B9AFFF) -> RS: 8,990 KB/s (2x) - WS: 8,990 KB/s (2x) Descriptor 2... -> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00 -> EL: 62500863 (0x03B9AFFF) -> RS: 17,980 KB/s (4x) - WS: 17,980 KB/s (4x) Descriptor 3... -> B0: 0x00, B1: 0x00, B2: 0x00, B3: 0x00 -> EL: 62500863 (0x03B9AFFF) -> RS: 26,970 KB/s (6x) - WS: 26,970 KB/s (6x)
Looking at the stamper codes was particularly tricky as they were very sensitive to the angle of light. With a lot of persistence and stitching more than 40 images later, this is what it looks like:
The stamper code for each layer was in the following format:
BRQ-0009-L0-1,
BRQ-1008-L1-1,
BRQ-2005-L2-1 and
BRQ-3008-L3-1. There was also a logo with the letters SCSM next to it.
Putting BDXL Media into Non-BDXL Drives?
I was always wondering, given the similarities between regular Blu-ray disc and BDXL, what would happen if you put a BDXL disc into a non-BDXL drive? There was talk that some drives could “eventually” be firmware upgraded to support BDXL discs, so would I find any surprise here?
As it turns out, no. The LiteOn iHBS312 and LG BH10LS30 both report no disc.
The LG GGW-H20L is a little more mysterious – it reports a not ready, but cause not reportable. Perhaps it’s aware the disc is something unusual, but can’t make sense of it – not even the media code.
Conclusion
It would seem the era of optical media is now sun-setting, like it or not. But before it does, part of my bucket list was to experiment with optical media’s last hurrah in the form of BDXL. Being the last format, it’s an engineering marvel only achieved by a handful of manufacturing companies. It’s also not unsurprising that some software doesn’t quite play well with the format.
Sampling the local produce in Japan led me to coming home with some VERBAT-IMk-000, RITEK-TL2-000, SONY-ET2-002 and SONY-NQ1-001 discs without breaking the bank. Unfortunately, it would seem to me at least, even in Japan such BDXL blanks are not selling well and the variety of discs available there is somewhat limited. I suppose that’s better than the situation at home, where none are available at all.
Now that I’ve been able to detail the discs that I managed to haul back, in a future posting, I’ll be going over the whole process of burning and testing them.
A Question For You: A YouTube Series on Optical Discs?
Having realised just how much time and mental energy I’ve devoted to optical discs this lifetime and the fact that this technology is likely on its way out, I was thinking about potentially launching a series of mostly-unscripted “Gough talks” videos where I talk about various aspects of optical media. It would be perhaps a bit of a podcast-like presentation (although I’m not sure if people will like my voice) where I talk about various formats, show off some of the rarer and often forgotten types of discs, or discuss various “advanced” topics such as strat-swapping, overburning and media scanning. After all, I’ve actually ended up spending a bit of money over the years to collect some rather interesting specimens that I’d hope to share some day soon.
It’s been a long time since I did anything in video-form and I’ve been spending a bit of effort and money to upgrade my set-up to help produce better video content. But I’ve not had much reason to break-out of the box, perhaps, until now.
While I’d still like to blog in long-form about them, it seems many people are “allergic” to reading blogs nowadays, so perhaps making videos is a way to reach a new audience. I’m not expecting to monetise the videos, nor am I expecting this to be an easy thing to do (as it will take more time than blogging) but it might be more enjoyable to some audiences and help preserve some of the memory around this technology before it disappears for good.
Let me know what you think of the idea. It’s going to be new to me to do more substantial video content … and I know I probably won’t be anywhere near as popular as the established content creators on YouTube but perhaps it’s worth a try if only just to share a slice of my memories with everyone.
Go for it. Enjoyed your Pioneer BDR-209DBK review back in the day, BTW. There was a firmware update to handle BDXL discs. As you know Amazon still sells PLEXDISC 645-213 50 GB 6X Blu-ray Double Layer Recordable BD-R DL White Inkjet, 25-Disc Spindle. I too have not done optical disc in years.
Thanks for the encouragement. What a shame my 209DBK didn’t last long enough to see it through!
Hmm. Plexdisc seems to be part of the Vinpower Digital “amalgamation” of many different optical-disc and duplicator brands, not least including Conner, Optiarc, Acard, Moser Baer, PioData and Optical Quantum. I presume that would be an Optodisc product?
At this rate, it seems some of my tail-end BD-Rs have outlived the companies that produced them … plenty of cheap PHILIPR04s by Moser Baer India burned by the 209DBK still reading back just fine today, similarly for my TDK DL discs.
– Gough
😎🤓
Let’s just say I was tripped up and aggravated by fair use rights vs major software company curiously abandoning correct handling of UHD discs, most likely due to govt pressure.
https://www.quora.com/Can-Intel-11th-and-12th-generation-chips-play-4K-Blu-rays
Start a twitch channel where you do let’s play, but instead you burn those Sony triple layer discs and verify.
That’s 6 hours of content right there XD XD
Haha. Is that what they call content nowadays? I guess at least it will compress well given how little action is happening on-screen … but everyone would probably be too busy watching hot-tub “just chatting” streams to care!
Running a separate transfer-rate test would easily add a bit more time too.
But perhaps the aim is to show the interesting side of optical discs, rather than watching paint dry, so I’ll just cut to “one I prepared earlier.”
– Gough
As we are generating more data, data storage is getting more ephemeral (e.g. QLC). And since 90% of data is junk (but which 90%?), we need some method of telling treasure from trash so we can save the good stuff. I wonder what records will be left 100 years from now?
I would also say go for it on the videos
but yeah, optical discs are on the decline
I needed a few blank dvds and my local bookstore no longer stocks any blank media
and even online, names like Verbatim, Imation, Maxwell, Sony, HP have disappeared or rarely show up here and there.
Somehow I have never heard of Ritek before, having stuck to Verbatim and Imation media primarily
At least now I know they’re an option I can consider
Indeed, Ritek is one of the majors, but considering they were behind my first major Blu-ray data loss incident, I wasn’t too interested in their offerings for quite a while. But there are plenty of CDs and DVDs that have survived …
– Gough
> A YouTube Series on Optical Discs?
Yes, please (but I also really enjoy reading your blog entries).
I love optical media and still use CD-R(W) for burning audio- and mp3-CDs for use in my car. I also do backups of my website and other stuff on optical media (mostly CD-R).
As people sell their leftover blank media for cheap or even give them away for free, I take the chance to stock-up some quality brands for future use. Although I shoudn’t wait too long: I collected some TDK archival CD-R for medical use some years ago and recently decided to burn some discs only to notice, that only a few of them could be burned successfully – the organic layer probably degraded over the years.
Thanks for the feedback!
> I collected some TDK archival CD-R for medical use some years ago and recently decided to burn some discs only to notice, that only a few of them could be burned successfully – the organic layer probably degraded over the years.
Interesting – I had some TDK consumer discs that had failed reflective layers (i.e. visible oxidation spots). I wonder if there might be a compatibility issue as well – older burners tend to work better with older media in my experience, although this may be more the case for DVDs than CDs. As long as they’re stored in dry, dark and not-too-hot conditions, the media usually lasts a long time. Curious what burner you use to burn your CD-Rs? If I recall, Plextor Premium drives were the Rolls-Royce of that era … but I’ve never had the fortune of owning one!
– Gough
I used a HP CD-Writer Plus 8100i (24x read, 4x write (CD-R), 2x write (CD-RW). This writing speed was supported by the media.
> As long as they’re stored in dry, dark and not-too-hot conditions.
Those conditions were met.
That is most interesting – I’m amazed the laser on yours is still going. I had a Ricoh MP7060A (6x4x24x) which went back to warranty four times in a year due to laser diode failures. Eventually, things got to the point outside of warranty that the unit would only ever write disks at 2x, so I ditched it for an MP7163A (16x10x32x) with JustLink which stopped me from making coasters :). But even that didn’t last forever …
Very unfortunate I’d say … I wonder if the discs were burned in their prime, whether they would have lost data, or whether this is something that just makes the blank unburnable or unreliable … I presume they were cyanine green dye discs if they were of that age?
– Gough
You guys still using ’ganic dyes ?
Hey – don’t knock too hard … some of our discs live in the dark most of the time in an archive box somewhere …
That being said, don’t be too comfortable about using inorganic recording layers – while DVD-RAM was often cited as being very reliable as an inorganic media, I’ve had an occasional failure on those too. Not to mention about 20 lost discs of data on Ritek (inorganic) BD-Rs from the 2x single-layer era.
Given good quality manufacturing, careful storage and handling, and a good initial burn to the disc, many discs regardless of type can outlive their useful life. The problem is, given the cost-sensitive commodity nature of the market, knowing which discs are quality, which burners work well with which discs and actually taking care of the discs.
I made the mistake before of trusting data to Princo – the scans were excellent and I shared that to an online optical disc forum (since defunct) only to be laughed at for even bothering with that media. They were right though … two years later and that pristine burn was totally unreadable. Others trusted their burns to RITEKG05 which was often good in its earlier days, but along the way, they might have manufactured a bad batch and then suddenly the forums exploded with data loss incidents. Even Maxell media have occasionally cropped up as being unreadable due to spots on the reflective layer, possibly due to a chemical reaction between the binder adhesive and the reflective layer. I’ve done even worse and trusted some data to MEDIA ID-001, VDSPMSAB001 and fake TYG02 discs back at the beginning of my DVD burning career and surprisingly, some still survive as long as they haven’t been stored in bright conditions. Those that have seen the sun have seen their dyes fade to near-transparency (i.e. from light purple to a slightly bronze colour, almost clear so the disc appears silver like the reflective layer).
A good dye certainly can last a while – Kodak Gold Ultima and just the regular Silver+Gold Ultima discs have all served me well and remain readable today. A good chance if you still have Mitsui Gold discs from the 2x/4x era that they’d be all fine too …
– Gough
> I presume they were cyanine green dye discs if they were of that age?
Yes.
The correct media description is:
TDK MEDICAL
CD-R74M
650 MB
Archive Grade
DICOM Compatible
It seems that my cyberpunk 2077 joke tag which was in closing html brackets did not go through xD
The stamper codes on my Verbatim 100GB M-Disc BD-R (also purchased in Japan) are exactly the same as the codes on your 100GB Verbatim BD-R.
Hi. I love your detailed and straightforward presentations! Thank you. I recently took three different types of Verbatim 25 GB BD-R’s and boiled the lowest quarter of the discs in water for 30 min. They steam-warped along the way, but at the end they all still played fine. The three types were a MILLEN M-disc, a VERBAT M-Disc, and a regular VERBAT disc. The second one is thought by many to be an imposter. I have a Blu-Ray burner that says it can burn it at up to 12X. For the first one, the MILLEN M-Disc, it says it can burn only at 4X. I also had spiced the water with enough vinegar that you could smell the vinegar fumes!
Do you think you could do a comparison of M-Disc vs regular Blu-Rays in terms of various durability tests? Like what happens under extreme temperatures, or what effect oil has on the surface, or maybe even a simple scratch test like they do for identifying rocks and minerals. The possible imposter M-Disc seemed less scratch-resistant on the label side than the true MILLEN M-Disc was. I was quite surprised that even the regular Blu-Ray functioned fine, especially when they say do not store it in a sleeve.
Thanks.
Thanks for your comment. In short, I don’t find such tests to be particularly informative. While they may attempt to emulate accelerated life tests in some way – heat, humidity, light, etc, even the science of accelerated life testing has some issues as other failure modes could occur that aren’t accelerated in the same way and the non-linear degradation process may be very sensitive to small changes in the test procedure. Perhaps the bigger issue will be drive failures or obsolescence in the future. For example, I’m sure the original MO 590MB 130mm disc cartridges based on inorganic recording layers are probably still readable, but try finding a readily available drive to read them today and you’ll be struggling.
Furthermore, I would have to say that archival users are not likely to be using those discs “everyday” where the handling issues are likely to limit lifetime, so the relevance of a Mohs hardness test is perhaps not that great for a disc which might be read out five times in its lifetime, especially as light scratches are usually not fatal. In the case of Blu-ray where the label side is a thick polycarbonate substrate with little functional effect but to stay rigid, I don’t think label-side strength has any bearing on lifetime. The cover-layer over the data, which is only 0.1mm thick, by contrast is much more vulnerable and the hard coating is mandated for this reason. Store it in a sleeve long enough and it will fail to read – don’t ask me how I know, I had to heat-gun some of my discs to get them back!
My own observations suggest that most discs, burnt well, verified at burn time, scanned for error rates and stored in good conditions (dark, cool, stable temperature, no pressure on the recording layer) have tended to outlive their useful lives – this includes the organic variety of discs too. I have CD-Rs of 25+ years, DVD+/-Rs of 15 years still without problems. Inorganic media typically has the upper-hand when it comes to resistance to degradation. While I have lost data on early Ritek BD-Rs which had a mysterious failure mode where the recorded information increased in errors over a span of just a few years, I’ve had no other major incidents to report aside from perhaps a few TDK discs where moisture had entered through the side causing reflective layer oxidation. Where there have been problems many of them can manifest in the early first few years post-burn, due to poor burner compatibility, fake media, manufacturing defects, low-quality third-tier media or poor storage (e.g. where sunlight illuminates the disc everyday from the edge of a case, for example).
Of course, the other thing is simply that media is expensive and difficult to obtain – nobody seems to want to use these discs anymore either and I’m not made of money either, having volunteered my own time and money in the creation of all the content on this site (and for a few others). Time has become difficult to come by as well, as I’m just a one-man-band. This is not the first time I’ve had the suggestion, but in the end, I have to be practical as well.
– Gough
Thanks for the update. I think one good thing about archival discs is that they need not be accessed that often, as you indicated. Maybe every few years copy their data to one`s newest computer hard drive, especially if the archived data is going to be less than 20% of the hard drive capacity.
I like the idea of having 2 copies of a given archive, one copy on 25 GB BD-R`s, and the other on 100 GB BD-R`s. I also have bought several used, yet hardly used, external BR reader-writers (usually about $50 each), and they should last if the discs themselves are accessed only rarely. As most people nowadays prefer to stream than to save, this might be a good time for those in the know to purchase such useful cast-offs!
Thanks again.
Hey, Gough,
In the comments you mentioned Princo media and that you shared your tests on the (now defunct) optical media forum.
You mean cdfreaks and later myce.com? I remember it very well, I was a moderator there for a couple of years and was heavily involved in collecting and testing CD-R and DVDR media.
I’ve been a long time subscriber to your blog and am fascinated by your level of dedication and knowledge in various areas of electronics.
If you are still interested in optical media, especially the rare and obscure ones, I can send you a few, now totally unobtainable, from European producers.
Best wishes, Peter (aka pepst).
Dear Peter (pepst)
Indeed! I remember the username and it’s nice to hear from you. Oh, I really enjoyed my time at club.cdfreaks.com when it was still a bustling place. It was a very helpful place, even if back then, I was more curious rather than knowledgeable! Looking back, perhaps I should’ve stayed more quiet and learned more from others :). It was fun times when cross-flashing, overspeeding, strat-swapping, rip-lock-removal and RPC-1/auto-resets were easily done using Omnipatcher, EEPROM Tool, MCSE, etc. Especially valuable was the fact the authors of the tools spent time on the forums and were patient enough to help everyone. I still fondly remember learning, trying and beta-testing some firmwares and patches back then … what a shame this kind of thing has since gone away with the lock-down (signing, encryption, integration of flash into controllers) of drive firmware for security reasons and the wane of optical media in general. But perhaps as drives moved away from “fixed” strategies to incorporating “learning” (e.g. SolidBurn, Online HyperTuning), burn reliability went up to the point people just didn’t obsess about it anymore (even if the enthusiasts did). The media section was always a point of jealousy for me – looking at everyone else’s quality scans often had me wondering where I could improve and gave me a lot of clues as to what to buy (both burner and media). I’m glad to have been a part of it, but to be honest, I do feel a little sad that I can’t just easily “walk back in there and pull up scans” now that it’s gone and archive.org coverage is a bit patchy.
Thanks for reaching out though. It’s interesting because another reader of mine had reached out with one particular type of EU-made unobtainium just around a month ago which I’ve been quietly testing for the past week (don’t want to spoil the surprise for other readers – you’ll see it in a blog soon). Perhaps after that post (and after I get through some of the discs I’ve ordered just out of a sense of impending doom) then I’ll reach out and we can come to some agreement. I really don’t want to impose … after all, some of these “rare-wares” can be quite the collectors’ item and I may not have the appropriate “period-correct” worthy burner to use them with, not to mention, I’m half-way across the world. While I do have a “wall” of burners, many of them are later SATA-era devices … only a rare few IDE drives still survive and work for me, as most have succumbed to laser failure (still working IDE-era drives – LDW-451S@832S, DVR-108, DVR-111L, DW1640, DW1650, ND3500AG and possibly a few Lite-On/OEM CD-RW drives). It’s been a shame I haven’t been able to collect (at least, for a reasonable price) anything that does DDCD-RW (1.3GB format), a Yamaha F1 (Disc T@2, Audio Master), or a Plextor Premium (GigaRec/Varirec), or a Toshiba HD-DVD-R drive (although, I’ve never seen anyone actually get a good burn out of one), or a PD Drive (phase-change dual), or any magneto-optical equipment (aside from Hi-MD). Some of this may change over time if I get very lucky. As for discs, the 63-minute CD-R is very much still a unicorn, as is a 12x DVD-RAM and the BeAll 4.85GB DVD-R (which I would not expect to work with all burners). Of the other media on-my-mind, I’ve managed to find some HD-DVD-R, black CD-R, 8x DVD+RW and US/US+ CD-RW (higher-speed RW discs were very hard to get and in general, RW was very unpopular likely due to cost and compatibility). Hoping to blog about them in due course … It would definitely be interesting, because EU-made discs are something I’m completely unaware of. Here in Australia, practically all we ever get is Made in Taiwan (mass-market CMC, Ritek), India (Moser Baer before they went bust), Vietnam (Ritek nowadays), Japan (when it was still producing TY, CMC, TDK) and China/Hong Kong (usually low-quality, sometimes fake MIDs).
It is a shame the front-page of myCE is the way it is … mostly filled with links to low-quality SEO-engineered blog-spam and marketing disguised as “news”. One of the reasons I didn’t name the forum was simply for the fact that I feel it is such a shame that the name is now associated with this sort of content …
– Gough
Hey,
I too get nostalgic when I think of the old cdfreaks forum. The times of experimenting with firmwares, swapping writing strategies, the times when you could buy interesting and varied media without the slightest hassle at the nearest store. I remember when I bought a Benq DW1655 drive and was fascinated by all the possibilities it presented. I also fondly and nostalgically remember the community on cdfreaks and later myce. Too bad it all ended so ingloriously.
I’m looking forward to the mysterious media test from Europe. If I may guess, do they have the word “Tresor” in the title?
Unfortunately, I haven’t had much time to test and collect mediums for about 10 years now, practically none at all the last few years, but I do occasionally find time to look at online auction sites to see if anything interesting comes up. Most of the time, actually practically always, nothing.
I hunt for 63 min media as well, BeAll 4,85 GB DVDR as well, I’m sorry I didn’t buy them in 2004, when they were available in our country. At that time, exotic and nowadays unobtainable media could be bought even in brick-and-mortar stores.
Black and colour CD-Rs were extremely popular and easy to get hold of here, HS CD-RWs and 8x DVDRWs were also relatively easy to get hold of, even from European manufacturers. Now, of course, this is no longer the case. Recordable media is no longer sold almost anywhere, in my small town you can only buy it in one store, and that is CD-R and DVDR Maxell (Ritek) and Verbatim (CMC Magnetics). Nothing else. Even the big online electronics and IT stores don’t offer anything else, the whole media offer in Slovakia is limited to these two brands and the Mediarange brand, which sells B-quality stuff from CMC. I’d be grateful for Chinese DVDRs with fake MIDs, but they are no longer available here, there used to be tons of them. Until a few years ago the market was absolutely flooded with MBI media, but you can’t buy any at all for years now, the stock obviously ran out after the MBI crash.
As for my collecting goals, they have always been European media and products from very small manufacturers. Between 2000-2004 there were maybe 20-25 extremely small and now completely forgotten manufacturers in Europe and my efforts are focused on getting their products into my collection. I am also interested in the products of non-mainstream manufacturers from other parts of the world. I have been trying for years to get media from the American CD and DVD manufacturer cd-recordable.com (I hope it passes the spam filter), I don’t know if I will ever succeed.
When you have the time and opportunity to test a few not-quite-common media from Europe, feel free to drop me a line, I’d be happy to send a few pieces. Feel free to get in touch anytime.
Best wishes, Peter
Dear Peter,
Indeed, it does. Mystery unwrapped already – geez, you’re quick! I’ll put it up in the next two days – it’s been a marathon burning/scanning effort in playing around with the batch I’ve been so generously donated.
I think it’s often true that we don’t see the true “value” of something until it’s gone. I remember the days when coloured CD-Rs were easy to obtain, gold-reflective-layer archival media were not too expensive (i.e. before Kodak stopped producing the Gold Ultima series). Being in Australia, we usually don’t get as much choice – TY’s for example could really only be sourced via duplicator supply-houses in bulk (often they’d want to sell 600 discs at a minimum). Thankfully, as some of my previous friends had stopped playing with optical media, they’ve returned some of their unused media to me so I do have a spindle of genuine TYG02 from back in the days which I haven’t wanted to unwrap just yet. The only thing we get now is mostly CMC-made Verbatim stuff (CMC/MCC coded) that’s getting dusty on the shelves. No choice of brands here, with BD-R and newer being nearly impossible to find at retail. But also, no relenting on the price too – they’ve gotten more expensive now that they’re starting to become niche again. Which reminds me – 90 minute and 99 minute CD-Rs were also a thing that I only got a limited amount of before they disappeared. Too bad they were often not from reputable brands because of the potential compatibility issues – but I did enjoy pushing the limits at the time. Indeed, it is disappointing to me to see the Maxell name basically as a Ritek-brand now – in the early days, Maxell products had decent reputation for the most part … at least, until the end when a few DVD-R discs seemed to develop reflective-layer spots that some seemed to think was adhesive-related.
That being said, I’ve had my share of B-grade overprint stuff too (the patterns were crazy) be it MCC or lesser-brands like Optodisc/Prodisc, but overall, I’ve had little issues with CMC, Ritek (except early BD-R), Ricoh or MBI stored well. TDKs seem to have failed quite a bit for me, mostly reflective layer oxidation issues and Gigastorage stuff (under Melody brand) delaminating (DVD+R). Chinese fake-MID DVD+Rs were something I had bought a lot of and burned a lot of – my BenQ DW400A DVD+R-only burner had no issues burning or reading them back but the light-coloured dyes often faded quickly if sun ever got through the edge of the disc! Some of them had horrible imbalance due to poor adhesive/printable coating distribution which turned up when I put the disc into 16x-capable drives and they got spun-up all the way. I recall paying about $1.30 each back in early 2000’s for MEDIA_ID-001 from HK in packs of 25, with an occasional fake TYG02 and VDSPMSAB001 batches if I recall correctly. Too bad I didn’t keep any unused samples … most of them that have failed belong to my Dad and he’s already thrown most of them away.
I’m happy to hear you’ve got some goals in mind – if you ever post it online, let me know where to see them :). All comments are manually moderated (hence the delay) but I promise that I check the spam folder regularly, so don’t be afraid to throw relevant links. As far as collecting goes – I’d love to collect everything that I’ve ever been interested in, but financially and space-wise, I know it’s an impossibility. At least, when I have the time, I hope I can share it with all of the internet via the blog, so that I don’t feel as bad one day when I do have to let them go to a new home :).
Sincerely,
Gough.
Great post. I also recently got back from Japan with a haul of various BD-Rs which when considering tax reductions came out to be around half the price of what they’re selling for in Europe.
I was looking for archival discs and ended up mostly with VERBAT-IMk-000 3 layer discs from Verbatim, Victor and Mitsubishi all identify as the same.
Unfortunately the largest stack of 128GB Sony 4 layer discs aren’t recognized by my Asus writer, I have contacted them in hopes of a firmware update. Otherwise I’ll have to sell them or buy a new writer.
I am also sad to hear that this technology is not selling so well, however in Japan, all the major stores have large sections of discs and writers so it seems quite well received over there at least.
It seems to me, in a world of ever increasing data, optical media is the only format which can provide true long term cold storage of our videos and photo memories.
I hope we continue to develop this technology or something similar. Magnetic based media just isn’t reliable enough.
Oh and something else that came to mind, all the VERBAT-IMk-000 discs identify as 6x write capable, and I’ve tested and validated those on my drive. However, the packaging only lists 2-4x. So I’m being cautious and sticking to 4x. I wonder why the difference. Perhaps 6x is more problematic across a wider range of devices.
Well, a diversity of media is the recommendation. I’ve personally moved back to a mixture of magnetic for most of my archives – many hard drives of mine in lower-duty cold-ish storage have made it to 10-15 years but multiple copies, a data migration/rotation plan and different models of drive are used. If I could afford it, magnetic tape is often chosen because of its density, cost, speed and interchangeability.
Optical remains a good affordable option for more limited volumes of data, but it’s a risk as the drives are on their way out in terms of production and while the discs may be stable when stored correctly, you still need to have good hardware to read them out in the future.
Nevertheless, the write-speed is ultimately determined by the writer’s firmware. Many drives have firmware that has a write strategy for quality media that exceeds its initial original rating. The media being labelled a 4x media means that it meets the standard for 4x writing when produced and recorders should offer 4x writing with that type of disc. If your writer offers higher speeds, this over-speeding just means the drive’s manufacturer has tested the discs and developed a faster write strategy for the disc. It doesn’t mean that over-speeding is a good idea though – often, write quality may be lower when discs are written faster, but it does mean they can score faster writing in reviews which may make the drive more attractive for those who are in a particular hurry.
Even in the CD/DVD era, drives capable of overspeeding were relatively common. Sometimes even 2.4x DVD+R DL discs from Verbatim could be burned at 8x by the most capable drives. The layer changes, however, looked ugly and the failure probability was slightly higher.
– Gough
Great post. I have 3 Sony 100 GB TL BD-RE BDXL just like the ones you have shown, purchased in 2016. For the higher capacity disks IMO it is much better to use BD-RE (max. capacity available 100 GB), because in case of a recording failure, you can always re-record and you don´t lose over 10 euros per failed disk. According to Sony, the BD-RE can endure up to 1000 writing cycles, which is a lot. I use these disks for archival, this means whatever I record there stays there for a very long time or forever. So the 2X recording speed is not much of a hassle as I may record each disk 1 to 5 times in lifetime.
As a side note, I had problems burning the 100 GB disks directly from an external HDD location without creating an ISO image first (both with Nero Burning ROM and AnyBurn). To make it work, I created and ISO image with AnyBurn first, placing this image in an external SSD, and then burned the image to BD-RE.