Thesis: Artificial general intelligence (AGI) is far away because general intelligence requires the ability to learn quickly and efficiently. General intelligence is not just a large set of skills learned inefficiently. Current AI systems learn incredibly slowly and inefficiently. Scaling them up won’t fix that.
Preamble: AGI is less than 0.1% likely by 2032
My current view is that there is significantly less than a 1 in 1,000 chance of artificial general intelligence (AGI) being developed before the end of 2032, with upwards of 95% confidence. Part of the reason I think AGI within 7 years[1] is so unlikely and why my confidence is so high is that in the sort of accounts that attempt to show how we go from current AI systems to AGI in such a short time, people stipulate things that are impossible based on current knowledge of how AI works or their accounts contradict themselves (which also makes it impossible for them to actually happen). In response to objections to these accounts that attempt to point out these difficulties, there have been no good answers. This leads me to conclude that my first impression is correct that these accounts are indeed impossible.
If I stopped to really think about it, my best guess of the probability of AGI by the end of 2032 might be less than even 1 in 10,000 and my confidence might be 99% or more. My impulse to make these numbers more cautious and conservative (higher probability, lower confidence) comes only from a desire to herd toward the predictions of other people, but a) this is a bad practice in the first place and b) I find the epistemic practices of people who believe very near-term AGI is very likely with high confidence tend to have alarming problems (e.g. being blithely unaware of opposing viewpoints, even those held by a large majority of experts — I’m not talking about disagreeing with experts, but not even knowing that experts disagree, let alone why), which in other contexts most reasonable people would find disqualifying. That makes me think I should disregard those predictions and think about the prediction I would make if those predictions didn’t exist.
Moreover, if I change the reference class from, say, people in the Effective Altruism Forum filter bubble to, say, AI experts or superforecasters, the median year for AGI gets pushed out past 2045, so my prediction starts to look like a lot less of an outlier. But I don’t want to herd toward those forecasts, either.
Humans learn much faster than AI
DeepMind’s AI agent AlphaStar was able to attain competence at StarCraft II competitive with the game’s top-tier players. This is an impressive achievement, but it required a huge amount of training relative to what a human requires to attain the same level of skill or higher. AlphaStar was unable to reinforcement learn StarCraft II from scratch — the game was too complex — so it first required a large dataset of human play (supplied to DeepMind by the game’s developer, Blizzard) to imitation learn from. After bootstrapping with imitation learning, AlphaStar did 60,000 years of reinforcement learning via self-play to reach Grandmaster level. How does this compare to how fast humans learn?
Most professional StarCraft II players are in their 20s or 30s. The age at which they first achieved professional status will also be less, on average, than their current ages. But to make my point very clear, I’ll just overestimate by a lot and assume that, on average, StarCraft II players reach professional status at age 35. I’ll also dramatically overestimate and say that, from birth until age 35, professional players have spent two-thirds of their time (16 hours a day, on average) playing StarCraft II. This comes out to 23 years of StarCraft II practice to reach professional status. Excluding the imitation learning and just accounting for the self-play, this means humans learn StarCraft II more than 2,500x faster than AlphaStar did.
The domain of StarCraft II also helps show why the speed of learning is also relevant in terms of what it means to have a skill. The strategy and tactics of StarCraft II are continually evolving. Unlike testing a skill against a frozen benchmark that never changes, opponents in StarCraft II respond to what you do and adapt.
Anecdotally, some top-tier StarCraft II players have conjectured that the reason AlphaStar’s win rate eventually plateaued at a certain point within the Grandmaster League is that there are few enough Grandmasters (only 200 per geographical region or 1,000 worldwide) that these players were able to face AlphaStar again and again and learn how to beat it.
It’s one thing for the AI to beat a professional player in a best of 5 matchup, as happened on two or three occasions. (Although the details are a bit complicated and only one of these represented fair, typical competitive play conditions.) A best of 5 matchup in one sitting favours the AI. A best of 100 matchup over a month would favour the human. AlphaStar is not continually learning and, even if it were, it learns far too slowly — more than 2,500x more slowly than a human — to keep up. Humans can learn how AlphaStar plays, exploit its weaknesses, and turn around their win rate against AlphaStar. This is a microcosm of how general intelligence works. General intelligence means learning fast.
Scaling can’t compensate for AI’s inefficiency
It is generally not disputed that AI learns far more slowly and more inefficiently than humans. No one seems to try to claim that the speed or efficiency at which AI learns is improving fast enough to make up the gap anytime soon, either. Rather, the whole argument for the high likelihood of near-term AGI relies on that efficiency disadvantage being overcome by exponentially growing amounts of training data and training compute. So what if it takes AI more than 2,500x more data or experience than humans to learn the same skills? We’ll just give the AI that 2,500x more (or whatever it is) and then we’ll be even! But that is not how it works.
First, this is physically impossible. According to calculations by the philosopher (and co-founder of effective altruism) Toby Ord, just scaling the reinforcement learning of large language models (LLMs) by as much again as it has already been scaled would require five times more electricity than the Earth currently generates in a year. It would also require the construction of 1 million data centres. What would you estimate the probability of that happening before the end of 2032 is? More than 1 in 1,000?
But keep in mind this would only achieve a modest performance gain. You might not even notice it as a user of LLMs. This is not about what it takes to get to AGI. This is about what it would take just to continue the scaling trend of reinforcement learning for LLMs. That’s a very low bar.[2]
Second, it’s technologically impossible given the current unsolved problems in fundamental AI research. For instance, AI models can’t learn from video data, at least not in anything like the way LLMs learn from text. This is an open research problem that has received considerable attention for many years. Does AGI need to be able to see? My answer is yes. Well, we currently don’t have AI models that can learn how to see to even the level of competence LLMs have with text (which is far below human-level) and it’s not for a lack of compute or data, so scaling isn’t a solution.
Sure, eventually this will be solved, but everything will be solved eventually, barring catastrophe. If you’re willing to hand-wave away sub-problems required to build AGI, you might as well hand-wave all the way, and just assume the overall problem of how to build AGI will be solved whenever you like. What year sounds interesting? Say, 2029? It has the weight of tradition behind it, so that’s a plus.[3]
Third, it’s practically impossible given the datasets we currently lack. Humans have a large number of heterogeneous skills. The amount of text available on the Internet is an unusual exception when it comes to the availability of data that can be imitation learned from, not the norm.
For instance, there are almost no recordings or transcripts (which, it should be noted, lose important information) of psychotherapy sessions, primarily due to privacy concerns. Clinical psychology professors face a difficulty in teaching their students how to practice psychotherapy because of the ethics concerns of showing a recording of some real person’s real therapy session to a classroom of students. If this scarcity of data poses challenges even for humans, how could AI systems that require three or more orders of magnitude more data to learn the same thing (or less) ever learn enough to become competent therapists?
That’s just one example. What about high-stakes negotiations or dealmaking that happens behind closed doors, in the context of business or government? What about a factory worker using some obscure tool or piece of equipment about which the number of YouTube videos is either zero or very few? (Not that AI models can currently learn from video, anyway.) If we’re talking about AI models learning how to do everything… everything in the world… that’s a lot of data we don’t have.
Fourth, many skills require adapting to changing situations in real time, with very little data. If AI systems continue to require more than 2,500x as much data than humans to learn the same thing (or less), there will never be enough data for AI systems to attain human-level general intelligence. If the strategy or tactics of StarCraft II changes, AI systems will be left flatfooted. If the strategy or tactics of anything changes, AI systems will be left flatfooted. If anything changes significantly enough that it no longer matches what was in the training data, AI systems that generalize as poorly as current AI systems will not succeed in that domain. Arguably, nearly all human occupations — and nearly all realms of human life — involve this kind of continuous change, and require a commensurate level of adaptability. Artificial general intelligence has always been a question of generalization, not just learning a bunch of narrowly construed skills that can be tested against frozen benchmarks or a frozen world — the world isn’t frozen.
This gets to the question of what “having a skill” really means. When we say a human has a certain skill, we implicitly mean they have the ability to adapt to change. If we say that MaNa can play StarCraft II, we mean that if he faces another professional player who suddenly tries some off-the-wall strategies or tactics never before seen in the game of StarCraft, he will be able to adapt on the fly. The element of surprise might trip him up in the first round, or the first five, but over the course of more games over more time, he will adapt and respond. He isn’t a collection of frozen weights instantiating frozen skills interacting with a frozen world, he’s a general intelligence that can generalize, evolved in a world that changes.
When we talk about about what an AI system “can do”, what “skills it has”, we are often bending the definition so what capability or skill means no longer fits the real world, everyday definition we apply to humans. We don’t think about whether, as is always true for humans, the AI has the ability to adapt on the fly, to change in response to change, to generate non-random, intelligent, reasonable, novel behaviour in response to novelty. If AI can hit a fixed target, even though all targets in the real world are always and forever moving, we say that’s good enough, and that’s equivalent to what humans do. But it isn’t. And we know this. We just have to think about it.
One of the most talked about imagined uses cases of AI is to use AI recursively for AI research. But the job of a researcher is one of the most fluid, changing, unfrozen occupations I can think of. There is no way an AI system that can’t adapt to change with only a small amount of data can do research, in the sense that a human does research.
Fifth, even in contexts where the datasets are massive and the problems or tasks aren’t changing, AI systems can’t generalize. LLMs have been trained on millions of books, likely also millions of academic papers, everything in the Common Crawl dataset, and more. GPT-4 was released 2 years and 8 months ago. Likely somewhere around 1 billion people use LLMs. Why, in all the trillions of tokens generated by LLMs, is there not one example of an LLM generating a correct and novel idea in any scientific, technical, medical, or academic field? LLMs are equipped with as close as we can get to all the written knowledge in existence. They are prompted billions of times daily. Where is the novel insight? ChatGPT is a fantastic search engine, but a miserable thinker. Maybe we shouldn’t think that if we feed an AI model some training data, it will have mastery over much more than literally exactly the data we fed it. In other words, LLMs’ generalization is incredibly weak.
Generalization is not something that seems to be improved with scaling, except maybe very meagerly.[4] If we were to somehow scale the training data and compute for LLMs by another 1 million times (which is probably impossible), it’s not clear that, even then, LLMs could generate their first novel and correct idea in physics, biology, economics, philosophy, or anything else. I reckon this is something so broke scaling ain’t gonna fix it. This is fundamental. If we think of generalization as the main measure of AGI progress, I’m not sure there’s been much AGI progress in the last ten years. Maybe a little, but not a lot.
There have been many impressive, mind-blowing results in AI, to be sure. AlphaStar and ChatGPT are both amazing. But these are systems that rely on not needing to generalize much. They rely on a superabundance of data that covers a very large state space, and the state space in which they can effectively operate extends just barely beyond that. That’s something, but it’s not general intelligence.
Conclusion
General intelligence is (or at least, requires) the ability to learn quickly from very little new data. Deep learning and deep reinforcement learning, in their current state, require huge quantities of data or experience to learn. Data efficiency has been improving over the last decade, but not nearly fast enough to make up the gap between AI and humans within the next decade. The dominant view among people who think very near-term AGI is very likely (with high confidence) is that scaling up the compute and data used to train AI models will cover either all or most of the ground between AI and humans. I gave five reasons this isn’t true:
- Physical limits like electricity make it unrealistic to even continue existing scaling trends, let alone whatever amount of scaling might be required to make up for the data inefficiency of AI relative to humans.
- AI can’t learn from video data (at least not in any way like how LLMs learn from text) and this is not a scaling problem, it’s a fundamental research problem. An AGI will need to see, so this needs to be solved.
- We don’t have anything anywhere close to datasets encompassing all the skills in the world, and certainly not of the huge size that deep learning models require.
- To really possess a skill, an AI system must be able to adapt to change quickly based on very little data. This means that even with continued scaling, even with the ability to learn from video and other modalities, and even with datasets encompassing every skill, AI systems would still quickly break in real world contexts.
- Not even considering adaptation to change, current AI systems’ lack of generalization mean they already fail at real world tasks, even where plenty of text data exists, and even where the task more or less stays the same over time. This appears to be a fundamental feature of deep learning and deep reinforcement learning as we know them (although new fundamental ideas within those paradigms could one day change that).
It is always possible to hand-wave away any amount of remaining research progress that would be required to solve a problem. If I assume scientific and technological progress will continue for the next 1,000 years, then surely at some point the knowledge required to build AGI will be obtained. So, why couldn’t that knowledge be obtained soon? Well, maybe it could. Or maybe it will take much longer than 100 years. Who knows? We have no particular reason to think the knowledge will be obtained soon, and we especially have no reason to think it will be obtained suddenly, with no warning or lead up.
More practically, if this is what someone really believes, then arguably they should not have pulled forward their AGI forecast based on the last ten years of AI progress. Since almost all the energy around near-term AGI seems to be coming as a response to AI progress, and not a sudden conversion to highly abstract and hypothetical views about how suddenly AGI could be invented, I choose to focus on views that see recent AI progress as evidence for near-term AGI.
So, that amounts to arguing against the view that all or almost all or most of the fundamental knowledge to built AGI has already been obtained, and what remains is entirely or almost entirely or mostly scaling up AI models by some number of orders of magnitude that is attainable within the next decade. Scaling is running out of steam. The data is running out, supervised pre-training has been declared over or strongly deemphasized by credible experts, and training via reinforcement learning won’t scale much further. This will probably become increasingly apparent over the coming years.
I don’t know to what extent people who have a high credence in near-term AGI will take this as evidence of anything, but it seems inevitable that the valuations of AI companies will have to come crashing down. AI models’ capabilities can’t catch up the financial expectations those valuations are based on. I think people should take that as evidence because the real world is so much better of a test of AI capabilities than artificially constructed, frozen benchmarks, which are always, in some sense, designed to be easy for current AI systems.
In general, people curious about the prospects of near-term AGI should engage more with real world applications of AI, such as LLMs in a business context or with a robotics use case like self-driving cars, since the real world is much more like the real world than benchmarks, and AGI is defined by how it will perform in the real world, not on benchmarks. Benchmarks are a bad measure of AGI progress and without benchmarks, it’s not clear what other evidence for rapid AGI progress or near-term AGI there really is.
- ^
I chose the end of 2032 or around 7 years from now as a direct response to the sort of AGI timelines I’ve seen from people in effective altruism, such as the philosopher (and co-founder of effective altruism) Will MacAskill.
- ^
I haven’t really given any thought to how you’d do the math for this — obviously, it would just be a toy calculation, anyway — but I wouldn’t be surprised if you extrapolated the scaling of reinforcement learning compute forward to get to some endpoint that serves as a proxy for AGI and it turned out it would require more energy than is generated by the Sun and more minerals than are in the Earth’s crust.
For example, if you thought that AGI would require reinforcement learning training compute to be scaled up not just as much as it has been already, but by that much again one more time, then 1 trillion data centres would be required (more than 100 per person on Earth), and if by that much again two more times, then 1 quintillion data centres would be required (more than 100 million per person on Earth). But I suspect even this is far too optimistic. I suspect you’d start getting into the territory where you’d start counting the number of Dyson spheres required, rather than data centres.
Combinatorial explosion never stops producing shocking results. For instance, according to one calculation, all the energy in the observable universe (and all the mass, converted to energy), if used by a computer as efficient as physics allows, would not be sufficient to have more than one in a million chance of bruteforcing a randomly generated 57-character password using numbers, letters, and symbols. Reinforcement learning is far more efficient than brute force, but the state space of the world is also astronomically larger than the possible combinations of a 57-character password. We should be careful that the idea of scaling up compute all the way to AGI doesn’t implicitly assume harnessing the energy of billions of galaxies, or something like that.
- ^
My point here isn’t that we know it’s extremely unlikely the problem of how to learn from video data will be solved within the next 7 years. My point is that we have no idea when it will be solved. If people were saying that they had no idea when AGI will be created, I would have no qualms with that, and I wouldn’t have written this post.
- ^
Please don’t confuse, here, the concept of an AI model being able to do more things (or talk about more things) because it was trained on data about more things. That’s not generalization, that’s just training. Generalization is a system’s ability to think or to generate intelligent behaviour in situations that go beyond what was covered in the data it was trained on.
Executive summary: The author argues that artificial general intelligence (AGI) is extremely unlikely to emerge before 2032 (less than 0.1% chance), because current AI systems learn far more slowly and inefficiently than humans; scaling up data and compute cannot overcome these fundamental limits, and true general intelligence requires fast, flexible learning and generalization, not frozen skills trained on static datasets.
Key points:
This comment was auto-generated by the EA Forum Team. Feel free to point out issues with this summary by replying to the comment, and contact us if you have feedback.
This summary seems mostly correct and maybe I'd give it like a B or B+. You can read this and decide whether you want to dig into the whole post.
It's interesting to notice the details that SummaryBot gets wrong — there aren't "billions" of LLM users (and I didn't say there were).
SummaryBot also sort of improvises the objection about "static datasets", which is not something I explicitly raised. My approach in the post was actually just to say, okay, let's assume AI systems could continually learn from new data or experience coming in in real time. In that case, their data efficiency would be far too low and their generalization would be far too poor to make them actually competent (in the way humans are competent) at most of the tasks or occupations that humans do that we might want to automate or might want to test AI's capabilities against. It's kind of funny that SummaryBot gets its hand on the ball and adds its own ideas to the mix.
I think it is bad faith to pretend that those who argue for near-term AGI have no idea about any of this when all the well-known cases for near-term AGI (including both AI 2027 and IABIED) name continual learning as the major breakthrough required.
Can you provide citations? I wasn’t quickly able to find what you’re referring to.
I tried to search for the exact phrase “continual learning” in the book you mentioned — If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies by Eliezer Yudkowsky and Nate Soares, for the benefit of other readers of these comments — and got no results. I also did a Google search for “site:ai-2027.com continual learning” and got no results. This isn’t a foolproof method since it relies on that exact phrase being used.
In any case, a specific quote from AI 2027 or the book would be helpful.
As briefly discussed in the post, I think a major problem with AI 2027’s way of thinking about things is the notion that AI will be able to pull itself up by its bootstraps by conducting AI research in the very near future (within 2 years). That is impossible given AI systems’ current capabilities and would require some kind of fundamental research breakthrough or some other major increase in capabilities (e.g. through scaling) very soon.
Importantly, the thesis of this post is not just that continual learning would be required for AGI, but vastly increased data efficiency. You can assume, for the sake of argument, AI systems will be able to continually learn, but if they learn more than 2,500x slowly than humans (or whatever it is), that precludes AGI. Data efficiency and generalization are even more important concepts for the argument of this post than continual learning.
By the way, I don’t think I claimed that nobody who argues that very near-term AGI is very likely is aware of the sort of things I discussed in my post. I just claimed that there have been "no good answers" to these kinds of objections.
It's called online learning in AI 2027 and human-like long-term memory in IABIED.
At a glance, the only mentions of "long-term memory" in If Anyone Builds It, Everyone Dies (IABIED) by Yudkowsky and Soares are in the context of a short science fiction story. It's just stipulated that a fictional AI system has it. It's only briefly mentioned, and there is no explanation of what long-term memory consists of, how it works, or how it was developed. It's similar to Data's "positronic brain" in Star Trek: The Next Generation or any number of hand-waved technological concepts in sci-fi. Do you think this is a good answer to my objection? If so, can you explain why?
Unless there are other passages from the book that I'm missing (maybe because they use a different phrasing), the mentions of "long-term memory" in the book don't seem to have the centrality to the authors' arguments or predictions that you implied. I don't see textual evidence that Yudkowsky and Soares "name continual learning as the major breakthrough required", unless you count those very brief mentions in the sci-fi story.
I think one of the main problems with AI 2027's story is the impossibility of using current AI systems for AI research, as I discussed in the post. There is a chicken-and-egg problem. LLMs are currently useless at actually doing research (as opposed to just helping with research as a search engine, in the exactly same way Google helps with research). AI systems with extremely weak generalization, extremely poor data efficiency, and without continual learning (or online learning) cannot plausibly do research well. Somehow this challenge has to be overcome, and obviously an AI that can't do research can't do the research to give itself the capabilities required to do research. (That would be an AI pulling itself up by its bootstraps. Or, in the terminology of the philosopher Daniel Dennett, it would be a skyhook.) So, it comes down to human researches to solve this challenge.
From what I've seen, when AI 2027 talks about an AI discovery/innovation being made by human researchers, the authors just kind of give their subjective best guess of how long that discovery/innovation will take to be made. This is not a new or original objection, of course, but I share the same objection as others. Any of these discoveries/innovations could take a tenth as long or ten times as long as the authors guess. So, AI 2027 isn't a scientific model (which I don't think is what the authors explicitly claim, although that's the impression some people seem to have gotten). Rather, it's an aggregation of a few people's intuitions. It doesn't really serve as a persuasive piece of argumentation for most people for mainly that reason.
It doesn't matter if they state that is a "major breakthrough required" if they don't provide sufficient evidence that this breakthrough is in any way likely to happen in the immediate future. Yarrow is provided plenty of argumentation as to why it won't happen: if you disagree you should feel free to cite actual counter-evidence rather than throwing false accusations of bad faith around.
I agree that that comment may be going too far with claiming "bad faith", but the article does have a pretty tedious undertone of having found some crazy gotcha that everyone is ignoring. (I'd agree that it gets at a crux and that some reasonable people, e.g. Karpathy, would align more with the OP here)
What's your response to the substance of the argument? From my perspective, people much more knowledgeable about AI and much more qualified than me have made the same or very similar objections, prominently in public, for some time now, and despite being fairly keyed in to these debates, I don't see people giving serious replies to these objections. I have also tried to raise these sort of objections myself and generally found a lack of serious engagement on the substance.
I actually do see a significant number of people, including some people who are prominent in debates around AGI, giving replies that indicate a misunderstanding of these sorts of objections, or indications that people haven't considered these sort of objections before, or hand-waving dismissals. But I'm still trying to find the serious replies. It's possible there has been a serious and persuasive rebuttal somewhere I missed — part of the purpose of writing a post like this is to elicit that, either from a commenter directly or from someone citing a previous rebuttal. But if you insist such a rebuttal is so obvious that these objections are tedious, I can't believe you until you make that rebuttal or cite it.
Case in point... Matrice identified something in my post that was of secondary importance — continual learning — that, in the post, I was willing to hand-wave away to focus on the things that I think are of primary importance, namely, 1) physical limits to scaling, 2) the inability to learn from video data, 3) the lack of abundant human examples for most human skills, 4) data inefficiency, and 5) poor generalization. So, first of all, Matrice did not identify one of the five points I actually raised in the post.
Second, Matrice made a citation that, when I followed up on it, did not actually say what Matrice claimed it said, and in no way answered the objection that current AI can't continually learn (which, to repeat, was not one of the main objections I made in my post anyway). It was literally just a short sci-fi story where it's simply said a fictional AI can continually learn, with no further discussion of the topic and no details beyond that. How is that a serious response to the objection about continual learning, and especially how is that a serious response to my post, when I didn't raise continual learning as one of my main objections?
So, Matrice's reply mispresented both the thesis of my post and misrepresented the work they cited as a rebuttal to it.
If there is a better response to the substance of the objections I raised in my post than this, please let me know! I'm dying to hear it!
All of those except 2) boil down to "foundation models have to learn once and for all through training on collected datasets instead of continually learning for each instantiation". See also AGI's Last Bottlenecks.
No, none of them boil down to that, and especially not (1).
I've already read the "A Definition of AGI" paper (which the blog post you linked to is based on) and it does not even mention the objections I made in this post, let alone offer a reply.
My main objection to the paper is that it makes a false inference that tests used to assess human cognitive capabilities can be used to test whether AI systems have those same capabilities. GPT-4 scored more than 100 on an IQ test in 2023, which would imply that it is an AGI if an AI that passes a test has the cognitive capabilities a human is believed to have if it passes that same test. The paper does not anticipate this objection or try to argue against it.
(Also, this is just a minor side point, but Andrej Karpathy did not actually say AGI is a decade away on Dwarkesh Patel's podcast. He said useful AI agents are a decade away. This is pretty clear in the interview or the transcript. Karpathy did not comment directly on the timeline for AGI, although it seems to be implied that AGI can come no sooner than AI agents.
Unfortunately, Dwarkesh or his editor or whoever titles his episodes, YouTube chapters, and clips has sometimes given inaccurate titles that badly misrepresent what the podcast guest actually said.)
How is "heterogeneous skills" based on private information and "adapting to changing situation in real time with very little data" not what continual learning mean?
Here’s a definition of continual learning from an IBM blog post:
Here’s another definition, from an ArXiv pre-print:
The definition of continual learning is not related to generalization, data efficiency, the availability of training data, or the physical limits to LLM scaling.
You could have a continual learning system that is equally data inefficient as current AI systems and is equally poor at generalization. Continual learning does not solve the problem of training data being unavailable. Continual learning does not help you scale up training compute or training data if compute and data are scarce or expensive, nor does the ability to continually learn mean an AI system will automatically get all the performance improvements it would have gotten from continuing scaling trends.
Yes those quotes do refer to the need for a model to develop heterogeneous skills based on private information, and to adapt to changing situations in real life with very little data. I don't see your problem.
No, those definitions quite clearly don’t say anything about data efficiency or generalization, or the other problems I raised.
I think you have misunderstood the concept of continual learning. It doesn’t mean what you seem to think it means. You seem to be confusing the concept of continual learning with some much more expansive concept, such as generality.
If I’m wrong, you should be able to quite easily provide citations that clearly show otherwise.
I don't think Karpathy would describe his view as involving any sort of discontinuity in AI development. If anything his views are the most central no-discontinuity straight-lines-on-graphes view (no intelligence explosion accelerating the trends, no winter decelerating the trends). And if you think the mean date for AGI is 2035 then it would take extreme confidence (on the order of variance of less than a year) to claim AGI is less than 0.1% likely by 2032!
I was only mentioning Karpathy as someone reasonable who repeatedly points out the lack of online learning and seems to have (somewhat) longer timelines because of that. This is solely based on my general impression. I agree the stated probabilities seem wildly overconfident.
I don’t know what Andrej Karpathy’s actual timeline for AGI is. In the Dwarkesh Patel interview that everyone has been citing, Karpathy says he thinks it’s a decade until we get useful AI agents, not AGI. This implies he thinks AGI is at least a decade away, but he doesn’t actually directly address when he thinks AGI will arrive.
After the interview, Karpathy made a clarification on Twitter where he said 10 years to AGI should come across to people as highly optimistic in the grand scheme of things, which maybe implies he does actually think AGI is 10 years away and will arrive at the same time as useful AI agents. However, it’s ambiguous enough I would hesitate to interpret it one way or another.
I could be wrong, but I didn’t get the impression that continual learning or online learning was Karpathy’s main reason (let alone sole reason) for thinking useful AI agents are a decade away, or for his other comments that express skepticism or pessimism — relative to people with 5-year AGI timelines — about progress in AI or AI capabilities.
Continual learning/online learning is not one of the main issues raised in my post and while I think it is an important issue, you can hand-wave away continual learning and still have problems with scaling limits, learning from video data, human examples to imitation learn from, data inefficiency, and generalization.
It’s not just Andrej Karpathy but a number of other prominent AI researchers, such as François Chollet, Yann LeCun, and Richard Sutton, who have publicly raised objections to the idea that very near-term AGI is very likely via scaling LLMs. In fact, in the preamble of my post I linked to a previous post of mine where I discuss how a survey of AI researchers found they have a median timeline for AGI of at least 20 years (and possibly much longer than that, depending how you interpret the survey), and how, in another survey, 76% of AI experts surveyed think scaling LLMs or other current techniques is unlikely or very unlikely to reach AGI. I’m not defending a fringe, minority position in the AI world, but in fact something much closer to the majority view than what you typically see on the EA Forum.