[–] ▶ №2168137[Quote]>>2168207>>2168221>>2168252
>>2168117 (OP)look to scripture for your answers, also only use LSB since it's the best translation
▶ №2168160[Quote]>>2168175>>2168238
DON'T DO IT IT SUCKS CHRISTCUCKS SUCK WHEN YOU'RE NOT ONE
They are ALWAYS LOSERS who don't fight or believe in anything and actively avoid any confrontation. THE WORST kind of people are non confrontational niggas
They will never be true friends unless they are based, christians are never based
▶ №2168192[Quote]>>2168199
>i want to be saved so I can be accepted in a social group that requires that.
idk what this is supposed to mean
▶ №2168193[Quote]>>2168248
>>2168117 (OP)Drink some tea
Say the Jesus prayer
And handle it.
▶ №2168205[Quote]
>>2168199Commie girls give good top
▶ №2168206[Quote]
>I want to do it so I can fit in with a group of people who all say they are "saved" and want me to be "saved" too but they can't really explain how I can even know that I'm saved.
oh
▶ №2168207[Quote]
>>2168137But I want to fit in. I've ready read multiple translations. Btw is LSB the one translation that correctly translates "camel" as "rope" instead?
What's the point in reading scripture (which I've already done) and having my own private interpretation of it? That won't get me to be part of their group.
▶ №2168221[Quote]
>>2168137https://biblehub.com/lamsa/luke/18.htmHere is Lamsa translation tell me your thoughts on it.
▶ №2168229[Quote]>>2168281
This social group can't be that good, best you don't interact with christcucks especially ones that force christ
▶ №2168238[Quote]
>>2168160They have all the beautiful women and are wealthy though.
▶ №2168244[Quote]
satanists, go back to 4cuck, were you belong
▶ №2168248[Quote]>>2168266
>>2168193Any tea will do?
What is the jesus prayer?
What you mean "handle it"?
▶ №2168252[Quote]>>2168294>>2168341
>>2168137kjb is gooder. whatever it is OP, just avoid NIV
▶ №2168261[Quote]>>2168274
>>2168199I already hang out with them but just get treated like an outsider always because I can't convince them I am one of the saved and they all think they've been "saved by grace". They're like some off-shoot of Dutch Reform btw.
▶ №2168266[Quote]>>2168321
>>2168248you have to believe with your whole heart and mind that chirst died and rose again to save you from your own sins. you must follow him, be guided, repent, and do good works (because you love him)
▶ №2168274[Quote]>>2168321
>>2168261id suggest doing your research on the different denominations and do research about early Christianity. dont join a protestant church because they accept wild heresies like that
▶ №2168281[Quote]>>2168299>>2168315
>>2168229I notice that they all pretend to have had some kind of experience or just blindly assert one day "I've been saved" and then they get married. It's a pattern I've seen over and over again over the years. None of them will admit it's to get married or for social cohesion but I never see them get married without first getting "saved". And it's not like Catholicism where you just practice virtues and turn from sin and earn your salvation, it's some extremely complex and confusing stuff about how you need to get saved by Jesus and you can't do it on your own merits and blah blah blah.
▶ №2168284[Quote]
>>2168275aren't you a pooner
▶ №2168294[Quote]>>2168315
>>2168252I've read KJV and New American Standard Bible cover to cover and regularly use biblehub so I often see passages from many different bibles al the time.
▶ №2168299[Quote]>>2168399
>>2168281Yeah thats what christcucks do. I tried to debate a few christcucks one time and they called me retarded for saying incest was wrong, I didn't even insult them at all.
▶ №2168315[Quote]>>2168430>>2168448
>>2168281if they believe nonsense stuff like that, are you sure that church will lead you to Christ?
>>2168294try sticking with a translation that works for you i guess.
▶ №2168321[Quote]>>2168378>>2168380
>>2168266That's what they say except the last parts they don't say. They do agree with me that you'll do his works but they go on and on about how you aren't saved by works, the salvation happens before that, and the works are just the result/proof.
>>2168274I've already done that. I'm an extremely lonely person and just want to be part of a group of people that aren't a bunch of addicts. My life feels like a waste because I don't get to share my life with anyone.
▶ №2168341[Quote]
>>2168252lsb is the most accurate one and is consistently translated bible we have in english doebeit
▶ №2168344[Quote]>>2168380>>2168819
>>2168275I believe that personal beings can intercede on the behalf of others through the use of the cosmic laws.
I think maybe the holy spirit is just the spirit of truth, aka being one who loves the truth and seek it.
I think god the father is the transcendent all, the actual god, the absolute, etc. the one who is accurately described by all of the "attributes of god" or at least most of those attributes.
The god the son thing… I don't know what to make of that, I can't make sense of it, and I can't get clear answers on it.
▶ №2168361[Quote]>>2168456
>>2168275no wonder atheist suicide rates are so high
▶ №2168378[Quote]>>2168482
>>2168321yes, you arent saved by works, but if you love someone, you do good things for them. so if you arent doing good works in the name of God, do you really love him?
do you want to larp as a christian? or actually be someone who has faith in God?
▶ №2168380[Quote]>>2168401>>2168595
>>2168321you need to have faith AND works however. if you believe but dont carry your cross, what kind of Christianity is that? its heretical.
<if they give you comfort and a community, i guess its better than nothing. i believe though that you should be going to a church with a solid theology if you expect answers about your faith and a desire to commune with God.
>>2168344>The god the son thing… I don't know what to make of that, I can't make sense of it, and I can't get clear answers on it.a good explanation i know of is to think of God the Father as an unapproachable light that blinds us, and Jesus Christ as that same light but dimmed down so that we might be able to love him and see him.
<another good explanation is to think of how we learn things. is it easier to learn from a book, a law, or from a person? a library can best learn from a book, a court can best learn from a law, and a person can best learn from another person.
i would recommend checking out Orthodoxy bro you will love it.
▶ №2168399[Quote]>>2168433
>>2168299By incest do you mean sex with immediate family members?
Also were you arguing with the 99% of them that all have a rainbow flag on their church?
This group is one of the very few that didn't get vaxxed (well some did but most didn't), and doesn't approve of homosexuality and actually refused to have homosexual flags anywhere in their city and actively tore them down, but unfortunately like every other church still donate all their money to random niggers in Africa (in this case Malawi). They're the most based group I can find in the whole province and they're my own people (fellow Dutch) so I want to try to put aside my gripes and just fit in for the sake of stop being so lonely and finally be part of a community and have a wife and an extensive social network.
▶ №2168401[Quote]>>2168419
>>2168380you seem cool just please use more scripture when explaining such and such, it does the heavy lifting
▶ №2168419[Quote]
>>2168401im not a theologian im not able to go into biblical debates
▶ №2168430[Quote]>>2168543
>>2168315>if they believe nonsense stuff like that, are you sure that church will lead you to Christ?I think that my mission in life is to be a perfectionist, to practice virtues, to follow Christ as my example. I don't believe in substitionary atonement. To me the idea you can sacrifice a chicken and be free of some sins is ridiculous, same thing for sacrificing a man, and any other sacrifices. Only sacrifices that could count would be the one where you sacrifice your own bad habits and replace them with good habits.
Also I don't believe in doing any of this with expectation of reward or to avoid punishment. I just believe in doing this for virtue's own sake. I want to be able to help others, I want to overcome my own flaws, I want to be good for the sake of being good. My desire wouldn't change even if I was destined to hell, or to obliteration, I'd still want to be a virtuous man and to conquer my own failings.
▶ №2168433[Quote]>>2168439>>2168623
>>2168399yes like siblings, they we're defending that
▶ №2168439[Quote]>>2168451
>>2168433who is their bishop
▶ №2168448[Quote]>>2168639
>>2168315As for a church leading me to "Christ". I think the only way to him would be through communication with him. Not scripture, not churches, none of that. I'd need to actually talk with him and I'd need to have zero doubts it's him because if I can doubt it's him then it's not. The real deal is supposed to be unmistakably divine such that no possibility of doubt could even be entertained.
▶ №2168451[Quote]
>>2168439they weren't like hardcore christians my friend showed me some verses on a bible app and I explained to him why I don't believe in it due to noahs ark and some other stories. Then a couple randoms joined in
▶ №2168456[Quote]>>2168719
>>2168361I'd rather die with a clear mind than live to old age believing in some jew. Really.
▶ №2168482[Quote]>>2168515>>2168885
>>2168378The only thing I want is to be perfect. Christianity is to me just a LARP and the real thing, whatever it is, is only explained by these words:
>Thomas Aquinas stated that "all that I have written appears to be as so much straw" after experiencing a profound revelation during Mass on December 6, 1273. This moment led him to stop writing and leave his work, the "Summa Theologiae," unfinished, as he felt that his previous writings were insignificant compared to what he had encountered.This is how I feel about theology compared with the reality of God. All of theology is basically shattered by a slight glimpse of what is really going on. I think DMT probably provides this glimpse but I can't confirm.
▶ №2168515[Quote]>>2168839>>2168931
>>2168482only God, Christ is perfect. try all you might, and there will be something you will fail at.
you claim to know theology, but its clear you have not read 2000 years of christian theology. you have read or listen to critics, who also have not read much at all of it.
▶ №2168543[Quote]>>2168931
>>2168430you have the right mindset. i wish i could think like you.
>perfectionistbe careful. remember that we have all sinned and we are inherently irrational and imperfect. you are right though that we must strive to be Christ-like.
> To me the idea you can sacrifice a chicken and be free of some sins is ridiculous, same thing for sacrificing a man, and any other sacrifices. Only sacrifices that could count would be the one where you sacrifice your own bad habits and replace them with good habits.you are right again considering that all the things we can give God, he has given to us first as a gift. there is simply nothing more valuable as a sacrifice that to give ourselves to God.
<i will like to pause though and discuss why Jesus Christ offered himself as a sacrifice. He gave himself to us, so that we might be saved; He died for OUR SINS. He gave himself for us to save us. read John 3:16; that explains what we as Christians believe.
>Also I don't believe in doing any of this with expectation of reward or to avoid punishment. I just believe in doing this for virtue's own sake.keep doing this.
▶ №2168595[Quote]>>2168769
>>2168380They argue that you only need faith and that you will do his works but if you don't do any works because you had faith but then died before doing any works you're still saved.
>if they give you comfort and a community, i guess its better than nothing. i believe though that you should be going to a church with a solid theology if you expect answers about your faith and a desire to commune with God.lol "my faith". I'm not sure that a tradition that includes a certain Yahweh who was defeated by chariots gets to define the god of all the universe. I just do what all the "Christians" do today and interpret the Bible wildly different from what anyone did 100 years, 200 years ago, 500 years ago, 1000 years ago, 2000 years ago, etc. I tend to engage in extreme ascetic practices too like I fasted 40 days and nights only water and electrolytes and I've spent years in meditation and prayer. I read the text and try to give it a meaning that makes sense and probably wasn't the original meaning of the original authors.
The churches here in Ontario are really bad. All of them are different degrees of bad similar to the politics. I just try to find the one that is the least bad and try to find friends there. Kind of like when a libertarian or national socialist pretends to be a conservative just to have friends instead of being an intensely isolated online-only kind of guy. Same thing just I don't have anyone to talk philosophy with and these silly churches are about the only thing I can find.
>and a person can best learn from another person.Okay but Jesus ain't around now we just have the holy spirit to rely on and that's it. God the father we do everything through him but he's really passive, he's the system, he's everything. Jesus the person ain't around on the Earth so it's only the holy spirit here for us.
>i would recommend checking out Orthodoxy bro you will love it.Doesn't exist around here so it would just make me isolated and lonely.
▶ №2168623[Quote]>>2168662
>>2168433Were they doing that because the Bible has many instances of incest all throughout it? Adam and Eve's children had only each other to mate with, Lot's daughters, etc.?
▶ №2168639[Quote]>>2169003
>>2168448He makes Himself accessible through the scriptures, churches, and holy fathers.
<In scripture, we can read about His life and how God loves us. In the church, we can commune with God by his body and blood, and we can partake in the other sacraments and stick together with a community. In the holy fathers, we can see how the Holy Spirit works throughout people, we can learn from their teachings, and how applying Christianity turns people into saints.
▶ №2168662[Quote]>>2168738
>>2168623No because i mentioned how if noah had only brought two animals then every species on earth would die from inbred deformities
▶ №2168719[Quote]
>>2168456Be careful about what you believe. It's easier to criticize a worldview than it is to build one up and it's a trap to believe the perceived opposite of something by default. Materialist reductionism is a thoroughly debunked philosophy and most other philosophies like panpsychism have also been debunked. It takes quite awhile to sift through all the bullshit in philosophy because unfortunately novelty and just generating new ideas for the sake of getting published is a big thing and they don't care about truth so much. Same thing with physics, string theory, mwi, so many BULLSHIT theories about physics that you still hear the concepts get repeated again and again constantly even though they're all debunked. There can only be one physics that is right and only one metaphysics that is right, the rest are all wrong. Personally I'm leaning towards the Copenhagen interpretation of Quantum Mechanics and towards Analytical Idealism as the true metaphysics and all the rest are just wrong. If I found out either of the two I just mentioned are wrong I'll have to trash them too though.
▶ №2168736[Quote]>>2169166
>>2168117 (OP)you follow God
when you follow God and you have true faith in him you naturally want to sin less and such, you still have to fight temptations and fall sometimes but the difference is that you resist, repent and acknowledge the evil of sin. I recommend you start going to church every sunday (either Catholic or Orthodox, just dont go at a fucking latinx braptestant one
and also make sure to inform yourself on Christianity, yknow go on christian spaces online consume christian content read the bible etc. Most important thing is to pray and to have a relationship with God doe
God bless you brother, or sister IDK since you're self inserting as Coco and I hope it's not because you're a tranny
anyways God bless ya
▶ №2168738[Quote]>>2168782
>>2168662Are they the types who deny evolution or maybe the types who make up cope mental gynmastics about "well, the original line of man was perfect with no defects, so no deformities would arise, and all those animals on that boat they all were genetically perfect so no deformities could arise either". Some of them argue that also there aren't a ton of species on the Earth that they might have just saved one pair of birds and all the different birds come from that, one pair of (insert genus here) and all the animals of that genus come from that pair, etc. The Noah's ark story is so cringe they all got some crazy ideas about it.
▶ №2168769[Quote]>>2169264>>2169299>>2169345>>2169360>>2169409
>>2168595>They argue that you only need faith and that you will do his works but if you don't do any works because you had faith but then died before doing any works you're still saved.you worded it confusingly but i agree with you. at the end of the day, its Gods decision to have mercy on those who have died. if someone couldnt have possibly done any good works in their life, then why would God send them to hell? thats not a merciful God.
>I'm not sure that a tradition that includes a certain Yahweh who was defeated by chariots gets to define the god of all the universe. werent the Israelites defeated because they apostatized from God?
>I just do what all the "Christians" do today and interpret the Bible wildly different from what anyone did 100 years, 200 years ago, 500 years ago, 1000 years ago, 2000 years ago, etc.thats why theres so much insanity and looney churches nowadays. they just interpret things their own way and its why we have such spiritual sickness. stick to apostolic tradition instead of making yourself your own pope.
>The churches here in Ontario are really bad. All of them are different degrees of bad similar to the politics. I just try to find the one that is the least bad and try to find friends there. Kind of like when a libertarian or national socialist pretends to be a conservative just to have friends instead of being an intensely isolated online-only kind of guy. Same thing just I don't have anyone to talk philosophy with and these silly churches are about the only thing I can find.feels. if your church is the best thing you got, then please stay there and enjoy it and love your community.
>Okay but Jesus ain't around now we just have the holy spirit to rely on and that's it. God the father we do everything through him but he's really passive, he's the system, he's everything. Jesus the person ain't around on the Earth so it's only the holy spirit here for us.He is still around. He rose on the third day. Thats a core belief in Christianity. They all cooperate under 1 divine nature.
>Doesn't exist around here so it would just make me isolated and lonely.Catholicism works too, right?
▶ №2168782[Quote]>>2169436
>>2168738Funny enough they tried to use adam and eve to defend the noah and the ark story, I didn't ask them about evolution but I assume they would deny that aswell. Not only do I not believe it in because of the blatant bs but because theres also evil and bad morals in it aswell.
▶ №2168819[Quote]>>2168902>>2169501>>2169555
>>2168344you shouldn't be introducing yourself to the faith to get social validation, God literally said that people would be hated because of his name. Don't expect validation from the world because that's definitely not what Christianity will get you. I mean, you certainly don't need the approval of those mutilated tranny freaks and of those baby murdering liberals and you DEFINITELY need Jesus I just want to make sure you know what you're getting yourself into.
btw let me explain the trinity to you
The Holy Trinity is what we use to refer to the Godhead, aka the three persons of God (there is only one God albeit dont get it twisted we are not pagan)
There is the Father, which is the traditional idea of "God" that you probably imagine in your head, yknow?
There is The Son, which is Jesus, He is God in human flesh. He died for us on the cross which means we are saved from our own sin if we repent and put our faith in him, basically
and then there is the Holy spirit (AKA The Holy Ghost)he is God. He is the One who guides us into a closer walk with Christ. it's kinda hard to explain the Holy Ghost but like just know he dwells in the heart of those who are saved and such. The holy ghost is not just an influence or a force. He has the personhood and mind of God, and performs a special duty to help us connect with God the Father.
all three are distinct persons and are also fully God.
▶ №2168839[Quote]>>2168902>>2168915
>>2168515>only God, Christ is perfect. try all you might, and there will be something you will fail at. This is the standard response every time used by people to discourage me from perfectionism. I believe perfection is in fact achievable and I also don't care if there was an infinity of people before me that were perfect or absolutely none, I'm still going to strive for perfection.
Also just going on the Bible there were other people besides Jesus. Enoch, Job, Daniel all perfect men.
>you claim to know theology, but its clear you have not read 2000 years of christian theology. you have read or listen to critics, who also have not read much at all of it.I started with Systematic Theology by Charles C. Ryrie when I was 24. Studied that over 8 months. Then I read/listened the KJV in 3 weeks at 25. Then I studied a ton of random theologians, read the NASB, and read random portions of other bibles, and had constant discussions and collected many books both in digital form and otherwise. I've read Suma Theologica, I've read the Church fathers, I've read gnostic works. Besides all this I started studying philosophy at 20 in earnest, have continued my study of philosophy, and I have also studied most of all the other religions including plenty of really obscure ones people don't know even the name of.
>you have read or listen to critics, who also have not read much at all of it.I don't really pay much attention to critics as I prefer source works and not people making commentaries for or against them. Like I'd rather read Adolf Hitler's words for example than listen to other people talk about Adolf Hitler, same thing for all these theologies I'd rather read Charles Spurgeon or C.S. Lewis or Arthur W. Pink or the many others I have read. I once wrote that while in the hospital just a list of theologians I could remember having read at the time, not even all their books just the authors, ran out of room on the paper. I've read way more philosophers though.
▶ №2168848[Quote]>>2168864
>>2168836Christians literally built most of western civilisation take your meds Satanist faggot
▶ №2168864[Quote]>>2169277>>2169612
>>2168848im agnostic why do christcucks think anyone that opposes Christianity is le satan
▶ №2168875[Quote]>>2168890
>>2168836lets forget about 1960 years of European history
▶ №2168885[Quote]>>2169635
>>2168482chuddy we can't be perfect, you're not perfect
have you ever sinned? jacked off or been violent? Disrespected your parents, maybe? Then you're a sinner, and hence not perfect. That's why we need God chuddy, none of us are perfect, except him.
▶ №2168890[Quote]>>2168912
>>2168875yea like the 1000 years where they burned and lynched people for being witches or something, stopping scientific development.
▶ №2168897[Quote]
>>2168876Built for repenting for her sins
▶ №2168902[Quote]>>2169080
>>2168819THIS
>>2168839thoughts on John Chrysostom?
▶ №2168912[Quote]>>2168930>>2168946
>>2168890the 16th-17th century was only like 100 years
▶ №2168915[Quote]>>2168962>>2169690
>>2168839>This is the standard response every time used by people to discourage me from perfectionism. I believe perfection is in fact achievable and I also don't care if there was an infinity of people before me that were perfect or absolutely none, I'm still going to strive for perfection.define what the qualities and quantites of it are. does this perfection include perfect relationships? perfect environment? (you affect your envireonment, why cant you make it perfect?)
>Also just going on the Bible there were other people besides Jesus. Enoch, Job, Daniel all perfect men.how do you say that those men other than God were perfect? what makes you believe that they were?
>I started with Systematic Theology by Charles C. Ryrie when I was 24. Studied that over 8 months. Then I read/listened the KJV in 3 weeks at 25. Then I studied a ton of random theologians, read the NASB, and read random portions of other bibles, and had constant discussions and collected many books both in digital form and otherwise. I've read Suma Theologica, I've read the Church fathers, I've read gnostic works. Besides all this I started studying philosophy at 20 in earnest, have continued my study of philosophy, and I have also studied most of all the other religions including plenty of really obscure ones people don't know even the name of.is that so, why have you done this?
▶ №2168919[Quote]
i wont sage anymore
▶ №2168930[Quote]>>2169046>>2169773
>>2168912I'm talking about the european dark ages. I'd say the only thing good that came out of Christianity was Michael Angelo not much else
▶ №2168931[Quote]>>2168961>>2168962>>2169021>>2169112
>>2168515>>2168543>be careful. remember that we have all sinnedI don't believe this.
>and we are inherently irrational and imperfect.I don't believe this either. I'm not a Rousseau guy either too but some men are born perfect, some are inherently rational.
>you are right though that we must strive to be Christ-like.There is a book called Mystic Christianity you may want to listen to it deals with some specific claims about Christ and the issues it causes like the "virgin birth" stuff. Jesus is not meant to be superman, he's meant to be a man just like the rest of us.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRhrEuE8k3E&list=PLjklLXGN-EMQGSGbZkxxWQo303n6W3Wlk
^ I genuinely believe what is taught in this book.
>i will like to pause though and discuss why Jesus Christ offered himself as a sacrifice. He gave himself to us, so that we might be saved; He died for OUR SINS. He gave himself for us to save us. read John 3:16; that explains what we as Christians believe.What I believe is the same as one of the church fathers which is that Jesus was our example and he died in a similar fashion to Socrates as a witness to and a demonstration of the truth and his total victory over circumstances, his perfect mastery of the law. I am trying to remember his name I think it started with an S, it was listed in the Basic Theology book I originally read under the section on theories of atonement. I don't believe in the theories in pic related.
▶ №2168946[Quote]>>2169785>>2169802
>>2168912tsmt and retarded niggers dont realize how brutal those times were
if you didn't use violence your enemy certain was going to and you head was going to be chopped off along with your wife's and your kid's and your neighbour's and the babarians were probably going to use your wifes head as a fleshlight.
they NEEDED to kill those witches and we need to do that shit again. Modern women are sacrificing their unborn children to Moloch left and right it's one of the worst evils humanity has ever seen. Don't underestimate the sheer brutality of women they're just as bad if not worse than men. Also look at mexican cartels and retarded niggers killing eachother in africa and ISIS etc. That's what happens without christian morality in the world. Sometimes violence is needed to enforce good.
▶ №2168948[Quote]
Hmmm it might have been Clement of Rome.
I need to look in here
https://annas-archive.org/md5/948983d7ddda2ef9947aa7311d75ae79▶ №2168961[Quote]>>2169022
>>2168931oh nigga please dont get caught up in gnostic retardation
▶ №2168962[Quote]>>2169008
>>2168931my life and experiences are in direct contradiction to the demystification of Christianity.
please reply to
>>2168915 ▶ №2168988[Quote]
Alright well if you guys believe it I won't stop you
▶ №2169003[Quote]
>>2168639Scripture is dead the holy spirit lives in us. Scripture without the holy spirit just leads to multitudes of interpretations, confusion, and degeneracy.
>In the church, we can commune with God by his body and blood,Macabre nonsense if taken literally.
>and we can partake in the other sacramentsI asked a man today at the market about the sacraments and he said there was only two. Baptism which to him is just announcing you believe, and I forget what he called it he used some other term but he was basically talking about the eucharist just saying it's to remember him and not for any other reason.
>In the holy fathers, we can see how the Holy Spirit works throughout people, we can learn from their teachings, and how applying Christianity turns people into saints.I like the saints and their lives far more than anything else. I have big respect for them. Like the ones that levitated, bilocated, etc. they were highly developed and I want to be as they.
▶ №2169008[Quote]>>2169028
>>2168962sir your experience doesn't define whether Christianity is right or not but do tell your experiences
▶ №2169021[Quote]
>>2168931Oh it's Socinianism. That's what I believe. I remember now.
▶ №2169022[Quote]
>>2168961this. gnosticism is such a larp. it defeats the whole purpose of what Christianity is supposed to be.
▶ №2169046[Quote]>>2169209>>2169667
>>2168930so nothing good came out of Europe until it secularized in the 1960s?
▶ №2169080[Quote]>>2169667
>>2168902Based TKD advocating Church Father.
▶ №2169081[Quote]>>2169133>>2169667
>>2169059knew this was going to come as a argument. if thats all you have to deny me, then whatever. i hope you never forget Christs words. and maybe youll be saved one day.
▶ №2169112[Quote]>>2169667
>>2168931>I don't believe this.pride is a sin.
>I don't believe this either. I'm not a Rousseau guy either too but some men are born perfect, some are inherently rational.then why did Christ have to come if there were already perfect people who never sinned?
>There is a book called Mystic Christianity you may want to listen to it deals with some specific claims about Christ and the issues it causes like the "virgin birth" stuff. Jesus is not meant to be superman, he's meant to be a man just like the rest of us.He is literally God; this is a core dogma in Christian theology. No other man could have done the miracles he did. Not even the prophets could cure a mans blindness.
<that book just sounds rubbish in my opinion if it completely ignores what was prophesied of the messiah and it somehow ignores the fact that Jesus Christ had accomplished what no other man could.
>What I believe is the same as one of the church fathers which is that Jesus was our example and he died in a similar fashion to Socrates as a witness to and a demonstration of the truth and his total victory over circumstances, his perfect mastery of the law.good perspective.
▶ №2169133[Quote]>>2169667
>>2169081I appreciate your respectfulness thankyou
▶ №2169166[Quote]>>2169667
>>2168736If you've seen what I've seen in the light, then everything in this world is fake and miserable in comparison at least as it's received through the bodily senses and filtered. It's like being a man who heard the songs of the sirens but was saved by his fellow fishermen before drowning himself, that haunting beauty so all-consuming. You'll never hear a song again and be moved like that again. I don't believe the way out from sin and temptation is necessarily a path of resistance, Jesus said "resist not evil" and it fits with my modern understanding of psychology. You don't really grit your teeth and will power your way through it, instead you turn to the light. There's the old metaphor that you can't sweep out darkness, but the mere presence of light drives it out. You don't think upon the sin, you don't condemn yourself and others, you instead hold to the ideal. There is nothing more important than the cultivation of the highest ideals, and finding still higher ideals if you can, like is written about in this book:
https://www.yogebooks.com/english/atkinson/1922personalpower.pdfFor example if one wishes to be pure in his relations with the opposite sex there is no better example than to think upon the most wholesome possible scenarios, the most beautiful, the most high. Let that be what consumes your thoughts. Think not upon the evil and unworthy things. Those things will not be fought directly, feelings of shame won't help, all that torment it won't help. Just think upon the ideal and you will see how little has been your previous ways, how great and how much better is the way of virtue.
> (either Catholic or Orthodox, I visit a lot of churches including those, especially as they are open a lot more the Catholic ones, and they're full of dying boomers.
>sister IDK since you're self inserting as CocoI'm not doing that what. I just needed a picture to start the thread with.
▶ №2169209[Quote]>>2169296>>2169667
>>2169046A lot of good came but europe was already less religious then. It peaked during the dark ages
▶ №2169264[Quote]>>2169667
>>2168769>you worded it confusingly but i agree with you. at the end of the day, its Gods decision to have mercy on those who have died. if someone couldnt have possibly done any good works in their life, then why would God send them to hell? thats not a merciful God.I don't believe in final judgement at death. Nor at some future date. Or any kind of final judgement at all.
I believe that there are those who fall from the heavens, descend to hell, and ascend back. I believe that these are primarily states of mind and that all able to interact with and see one another, but the laws of synchronicity bring people who actually resonate together, and keep apart those that don't.
I believe that man has a ghost, and that he gives up the ghost, and those who are dead can have an awareness of those who are still in a body and that we can intercede for them and vice versa. I believe in praying for the dead and the dead praying for us.
I believe in finite punishments for finite sins. I believe that vice and sin are a punishment in themselves, and that virtue and the good is good of itself. I believe in the concept that "delayed judgement is not justice" that the courts believe in, and that it applies to humans too. I believe the price of sin is not to see the beauty, to be dominated by the lower impulses, the bestial nature, the unworthy pursuits, the dire emotions. Those whose virtue is great however, eventually fire will not burn them, poison will not harm them, the artillery explosions will be nothing to them, and death shall have nothing fearful for them.
Truth, beauty, virtue, love, are transcendental qualities. Equanimity is the most perfect concept of an "inner-peace". I'd like to be like Julius Evola walking around during a bombing raid unconcerned, or like Socrates taking hemlock, or Seneca bleeding out in his bathtub, or Jesus on his cross, or Mansur Al-Hallaj as he was torn to pieces, or as the many saints who endured persecutions completely unphased by what ignorant men were doing. I'd like to be a man of spirit, secure in the knowledge of the eternal self, and its relation to the eternal god. I like to know the laws of the cosmos, of mind, of all reality and to work through them to achieve all things.
▶ №2169277[Quote]>>2169320>>2169667
>>2168864because they share the same "with us or against us" mindset that trannies do
<preddit spaceit also helps that they believe that there's a place after death reserved for those who don't believe in their god (as well as anyone they don't like in general) wherr they will be tortured and face unimaginable suffering for the rest of eternity, which is totally not fucking insane or something
▶ №2169296[Quote]>>2169342>>2169667
>>2169209people used to fear being excommunicated and going to church was simply something you had to do in western Europe especially. otherwise you would be seen as a stranger to your village. people did not play around when it came to religion until about the 1920s
▶ №2169299[Quote]>>2169326>>2169341>>2169667
>>2168769>werent the Israelites defeated because they apostatized from God?Just look at this passage and start to research
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Chemosh+defeated+Yahweh&t=ffab&ia=webIt literally says Yahweh was with them but he couldn't handle Iron Chariots lol. Not "Yawheh abandoned them because they were misbehaving so he let the enemy defeat them". It's an extremely inconvenient passage along with the stuff about circumcision and the mundane dietary laws and other things in the OT like this.
▶ №2169320[Quote]>>2169351>>2169370>>2169402>>2169667
>>2169277Yea thats another reason why I don't believe in it the religion, its built on fear. The "God" of the bible sounds oddly human.
▶ №2169322[Quote]>>2169667
>>2168117 (OP)Kill people you disagree with then confess
▶ №2169326[Quote]>>2169667
>>2169299It wasn't god who was defeated it was the jewish tribes doe.
God created the chariots so who gives a fuck anyways
▶ №2169341[Quote]>>2169667
>>2169299they took possession of the land. the inhabitants fled with their iron chariots. the inhabitants are still within the valley but the israelites won the hill country.
▶ №2169342[Quote]>>2169370>>2169667
>>2169296I was mistaken then, my bad.
▶ №2169345[Quote]>>2169450>>2169667
>>2168769>thats why theres so much insanity and looney churches nowadays. they just interpret things their own way and its why we have such spiritual sickness. stick to apostolic tradition instead of making yourself your own pope.It's not a new thing. It was happening during the time that Paul was writing, it was happening during the church fathers, it was happening in the medieval period, etc. Also stuff like the Nicene creed was basically forced by government / the sword and Arians got dabbed on that way and gnostics too.
Also a lot of history people were illiterate and had a cognitive-style of uncritically relying on someone else to do all their thinking for them.
I'll just stick to this:
https://biblehub.com/matthew/7-16.htmAs a general rule the mystics are the best men to look at not these councils, priests, etc.
And the best measure of one's own progress is one's own self-mastery, saintliness, spiritual authority, etc. aka being Christ-like.
I'm weary of all these people who don't do the what apostles, the saints, Jesus, Moses, etc. did.
▶ №2169351[Quote]>>2169370>>2169381>>2169667
>>2169320Man is created in His image. Of course our Creator seems familiar to us.
You're making like kindergarten level conclusions here
▶ №2169360[Quote]>>2169450>>2169667
>>2168769>He is still around. He rose on the third day. Thats a core belief in Christianity. They all cooperate under 1 divine nature.No he isn't.
<Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. (KJV)https://biblehub.com/john/16-7.htm ▶ №2169370[Quote]>>2169493>>2169667
>>2169320thats not what "fearing" God means. its not that we are scared of God, but that we have a "awe" and "respect" that must be held towards Him; to keep Him "holy"
<see
>>2169351 as well
>>2169342also, people used to go to wars over religious debates. if they werent religious, why would the Ottomans and Romans fight and why would the Protestants and Catholics fight? at least i hope i changed your perspective and thank you for being respectful.
▶ №2169381[Quote]>>2169479>>2169667
>>2169351No I meant that unironically, the god from the bible comes off as an insecure and narcissistic person. y'know because the book is written by people
▶ №2169402[Quote]>>2169481>>2169667
>>2169320yeah you would think an omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent being wouldn't for example be jealous when some of his creations believe in creators besides him
▶ №2169409[Quote]>>2169481>>2169667
>>2168769>Catholicism works too, right?Nope. There isn't a new generation of them. Every Catholic church is just grey-haired boomers and a token psychiatric patient or drug addict. A lot of other churches are like this too. Then there's some places that are just completely overrun with foreigners and that never stop preaching about feminism, homosexuality, etc. even a few Catholic churches like that. The one priest I really like the most and talk with the most is pretty upset with certain Catholic churches in the city that are really out of line. You can just go to their websites and you'll see so much woke shit. They cover the whole gambit. They betrayed their ideals to appeal to whoever they can get in. They also never get the kind of people that will actually keep the churches funded, it's only the boomers that do that, the addicts, psych patients, and non-white invaders are there to take and receive not to give. So many churches are constantly shutting down as a result all over Ontario and being converted into rock climbing gyms, mosques, community centers, and other random stuff.
▶ №2169424[Quote]>>2169481>>2169667
for the record, despite what that which i have written may incline you to believe i do not dislike the christian faith
i just detest overzealous self-proclaimed "christians"
▶ №2169436[Quote]>>2169481>>2169667
>>2168782Yahweh doesn't want us to eat shrimp.
But he's fine with a bunch of kids being mauled if they mock some bald guy lol.
<And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.https://biblehub.com/2_kings/2-24.htm ▶ №2169450[Quote]>>2169667
>>2169345>It's not a new thing. It was happening during the time that Paul was writing,i agree with that. heresy has always existed but it has never been so terrible as to cause hundreds of different "churches". we as Christians also believe that the Nicene creed was divinely inspired by the Holy Spirit as well; its not just some man-made tradition but rather it is what we as Christians definitively believe in.
>Also a lot of history people were illiterate and had a cognitive-style of uncritically relying on someone else to do all their thinking for them.that still applies to the modern world. construction workers listen to the architect and engineer. do you not believe that everyone has a consciousness and a mind to think for themselves?
>As a general rule the mystics are the best men to look at not these councils, priests, etc.who are you referring to as "mystics"?
>>2169360then what is the point of our faith? Christ has existed before, he has existed then, and he continues to exist now and forever. He makes himself manifest through our prayers, the church, and its sacraments.
▶ №2169475[Quote]>>2169667
Become Orthodox! God bless you soyteen.
▶ №2169481[Quote]>>2169597>>2169604>>2169667
>>2169402he doesnt want us to stray away from the truth, and he only wants the best for us. would you be upset if your child was doing drugs and wasting his time? wouldnt you rather have him become the best he could possibly and wouldnt you only wish the best for him?
>>2169409thats personally why im not catholic
>>2169424thank you for being respectful. i agree with you.
>>2169436>he thinks the Old Testament dietary laws still apply ▶ №2169493[Quote]>>2169538>>2169596>>2169667
>>2169370>>2169479what awe do you have for this entity?
>believe in me or suffer forever>Tells someone who sacrifice their child to prove their worth>Floods earth because of "sin" instead of teaching humans otherwise>Kills a bunch of Egyptian children for nothing of their faultsThese are the types of traits you see in a tyrant yet Christians want to claim their god is "loving" and want you to not only respect their god but worship him aswell? if these traits we're applied to a human they would be seen as a terrible person.
▶ №2169501[Quote]>>2169667
>>2168819A life of isolation is really terrible it is a heavy burden that people who went to school and go to work and are generally around people don't really get and also besides the physical isolation there's intellectual and emotional isolation like when you're in a city surrounded by swarms of people who you can never actually connect with. I don't want to die alone and childless and then a pajeet comes over and shits on my grave and somewhere in the distance a jewish cackle is hard. Right now I try to coast on a random smile from a stranger when I'm walking for weeks, stuff like that is what I use to sustain myself and try to remain sane, and one time when I got hugged by someone drunk it was like a revelatory experience instead of the mundane act it is for others I am so touch deprived.
▶ №2169538[Quote]>>2169569>>2169667
>>2169493All of this is instantly explained by basic theology and hermeneutics.
This shit youre bringing up is so basic, do you really think nobody has addressed this before?
All of your objections are still completely arbitrary by the way, based completely on modern era liberal/humanist morals.
▶ №2169555[Quote]>>2169626>>2169667
>>2168819The trinity concept is really convoluted. To me God the Father is like the god of metaphysics, the all, the absolute, infinite, eternal, etc. whereas the Holy Spirit is like this indwelling motive-force that compels us to seek out certain things, do certain things, etc. and Jesus to me is just the guy we're to imitate a man who was possessed by the holy spirit and who did the works of the father.
https://biblehub.com/mark/10-18.htm ▶ №2169569[Quote]>>2169667
>>2169538Well then do explain because you aren't arguing against it, also how is it arbitrary? All of those things we're seen as harsh even in that time period.
▶ №2169596[Quote]>>2169667>>2169687
>>2169493>believe in me or suffer foreverits not just burning coals and fire; its the complete absence of God. you can choose whether you want to be in the light or in the darkness.
>Tells someone who sacrifice their child to prove their worthi mean, it was a test. you excluded the part where God makes a covenant with Abraham and shows his love by giving him remembrance and a legacy.
>Floods earth because of "sin" instead of teaching humans otherwise>Kills a bunch of Egyptian children for nothing of their faultsyou dont seem to understand how horrible those people were to deserve such a punishment. the humans pre-flood were in complete sin and darkness and had no heart for God or anything good. the Egyptians literally killed every child from the Israelites, which is what makes Moses so special since he survived. these people chose their path of evil.
▶ №2169597[Quote]>>2169652>>2169667
>>2169481>would you be upset if your child was doing drugs and wasting his time? wouldnt you rather have him become the best he could possibly and wouldnt you only wish the best for him?you're totally right, i was mainly referring to certain passages such as exodus 34:14 which describes him as being jealous, an oddly flawed and "human", if you will, trait to have for such a deity.
>>2169481glad we can agree, one should follow their faith with as much humility as possible.
▶ №2169604[Quote]>>2169667
>>2169481>would you be upset if your child was doing drugs and wasting his time? wouldnt you rather have him become the best he could possibly and wouldnt you only wish the best for him?you're totally right, i was mainly referring to certain passages such as exodus 34:14 which describes him as being jealous, an oddly flawed and "human", if you will, trait to have for such a deity.
>>2169481glad we can agree, one should follow their faith with as much humility as possible.
▶ №2169605[Quote]>>2169611>>2169667
>>2168117 (OP)Fuck off cattle.
▶ №2169611[Quote]>>2169667
>>2169605>1pbtidgo back to 4chan
▶ №2169612[Quote]>>2169667
>>2168864Anyone who believes in Satan is just a Christian who chooses a different allegiance. To believe in Satan requires to believe in the Bible and all related to it.
▶ №2169626[Quote]>>2169667
>>2169555read the life of St. Spyridon of Tremithus and read the Nicene Creed. he has a good explanation about what the Holy Trinity is if you want to do your research.
▶ №2169635[Quote]>>2169667
>>2168885All your examples are trite. Have you not heard of the concept of "original sin"? All of your examples share a commonality: they are actions that must be performed. So how is a baby guilty of sin then? He hasn't had a chance to do any of those things.
▶ №2169652[Quote]>>2169667>>2169688
>>2169597reread what i said. by "jealousy", its moreso a
wanting and desire to have people willingly choose the right path in life rather than choosing evil and sin.
▶ №2169688[Quote]
>>2169652yeah i forgot to mention that it was what i suspected to be the case, i actually think that the specific passage from the book of exodus that i named was trying to use simple word to describe a more complex feeling with more nuance than just some petty sense of jealousy.
▶ №2169690[Quote]
>>2168915Perfection = mastery of self (mind and body), over circumstances (relations and events, mastery over synchronicity.
> perfect environment? (you affect your envireonment, why cant you make it perfect?)Not relevant to me becoming perfect. Making the world perfect aka making the kingdom of heaven on Earth is a noble goal too but at the same time the Earth is here the way it is for our perfection. This book makes the case really well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e30hDYlKMKQ&list=PLo6FrOGjYRkbM0LLPLNLaLpfTuT_2ttCK
>how do you say that those men other than God were perfect? what makes you believe that they were?Have you not read the Bible passages about them? They're stated as being righteous before the lord, upright, etc.
>is that so, why have you done this?A desire to know and understand every ideology, philosophy, rhetoric, religion, and mystery.
▶ №2169704[Quote]
Matthew 5:48
"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." - Matthew 5:48
Psalm 18:30
"As for God, his way is perfect: The Lord's word is flawless; he shields all who take refuge in him." - Psalm 18:30
2 Samuel 22:31
James 1:17
"Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows." - James 1:17
Romans 12:2
"Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is-his good, pleasing and perfect will." - Romans 12:2
Philippians 3:12
"Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already arrived at my goal, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me." - Philippians 3:12
Colossians 1:28
"He is the one we proclaim, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone fully mature in Christ." - Colossians 1:28
2 Corinthians 12:9
"But he said to me, 'My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.' Therefore I will boast all the more gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ's power may rest on me." - 2 Corinthians 12:9
Hebrews 10:14
"For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy." - Hebrews 10:14
Romans 8:1
"Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus." - Romans 8:1
1 John 4:18
"There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love." - 1 John 4:18
1 Corinthians 13:4-7
"Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres." - 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
Colossians 3:14
"And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity." - Colossians 3:14
John 13:34
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." - John 13:34
Romans 13:10
"Love does no harm to a neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law." - Romans 13:10
▶ №2169711[Quote]
Philippians 1:6
"Being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." - Philippians 1:6
2 Peter 3:18
"But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and forever! Amen." - 2 Peter 3:18
Matthew 5:48
"Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." - Matthew 5:48
Ephesians 4:13
"Until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ." - Ephesians 4:13
1 John 2:5
"But if anyone obeys his word, love for God is truly made complete in them. This is how we know we are in him." - 1 John 2:5
Psalm 119:105
"Your word is a lamp for my feet, a light on my path." - Psalm 119:105
Proverbs 3:5-6
"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight." - Proverbs 3:5-6
Isaiah 30:21
"Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, 'This is the way; walk in it.'" - Isaiah 30:21
John 16:13
"But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come." - John 16:13
Psalm 25:4-5
"Show me your ways, Lord, teach me your paths. Guide me in your truth and teach me, for you are God my Savior, and my hope is in you all day long." - Psalm 25:4-5
▶ №2169712[Quote]
Galatians 6:9
"Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up." - Galatians 6:9
Matthew 7:12
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." - Matthew 7:12
Titus 2:7-8
"In everything set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness, and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us." - Titus 2:7-8
1 Peter 3:17
"For it is better, if it is God's will, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil." - 1 Peter 3:17
Romans 12:21
"Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good." - Romans 12:21
▶ №2169713[Quote]
Hebrews 11:1
"Now faith is confidence in what we hope for and assurance about what we do not see." - Hebrews 11:1
Romans 8:28
"And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." - Romans 8:28
1 John 5:14
"This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us." - 1 John 5:14
2 Timothy 1:12
"That is why I am suffering as I am. Yet this is no cause for shame, because I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him until that day." - 2 Timothy 1:12
Philippians 4:6-7
"Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus." - Philippians 4:6-7
▶ №2169717[Quote]
John 15:11
"I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete." - John 15:11
Philippians 4:4
"Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice!" - Philippians 4:4
Nehemiah 8:10
"The joy of the Lord is your strength." - Nehemiah 8:10
Romans 15:13
"May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit." - Romans 15:13
Psalm 16:11
"You make known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand." - Psalm 16:11
▶ №2169753[Quote]>>2169765
>>2169749all fake archives btw
▶ №2169773[Quote]>>2169808
>>2168930Would you consider Issaac Newton as "having come out of Christianity"? What about Gregor Mendel or Galileo?
▶ №2169783[Quote]
>>2169765>posted the same link twiceyup issa fail
▶ №2169785[Quote]
>>2168946Those "witches" they were killing were just drug addicts and schizophrenics. It's no different than if we killed all the trash people littering our streets today.
▶ №2169802[Quote]
>>2168946>Also look at mexican cartels and retarded niggers killing eachother in africa and ISIS etc. That's what happens without christian morality in the world.Biology determines that not religion.
▶ №2169808[Quote]
>>2169773No because his discoveries didn't come from Christianity. Micheal Angelo was directly inspired and made art from Christianity
