This long read in The Verge does a remarkable job of describing how Wikipedia's editing community works, the project's strengths and weaknesses, and the threats it faces.
https://www.theverge.com/cs/features/717322/wikipedia-attacks-neutrality-history-jimmy-wales
"In a time of misinformation, in a time of suppression, having this place where people can come and bring knowledge and share knowledge, that is a statement."
@molly0xfff here's my favorite line: "By 2005, the pages where editors stipulated policy and debated articles were found to be growing faster than the articles themselves. Today, this administrative backend is at least five times the size of the encyclopedia it supports."
I've always argued that the tools we build at the WMF sometimes are too focused on "encyclopedic content" and neglect the fact that the MediaWiki platform is used 5x more often for the meta-work of administering the project. Collaborative tools are important for organizing the work, even if they are not used directly to write the encyclopedic content.
@cscott Wikipedia: proving that if we simply argue enough, eventually an encyclopedia will come out
@molly0xfff paywalled??
@molly0xfff 'facts represent a sort of rival power, a constraint and limit “hated by tyrants who rightly fear the competition of a coercive force they cannot monopolize,” and at risk in democracies, where they are suspiciously impervious to public opinion. Facts, in other words, don’t care about your feelings.'
@molly0xfff “It’s a rare person who is able to uproot their life in the service of a volunteer side project”.
What an outstanding article, and what a beautiful and inspiring story.
Thanks for sharing!
@molly0xfff thanks for sharing that!
This passage stood out to me:
"If the social platforms and language models that increasingly shape our understanding of the world are inscrutable black boxes, Wikipedia is the opposite, maybe the most legible, endlessly explainable information management system ever made. For any sentence, there is a source, and a reason that that source was used, and a reason for that reason."
@molly0xfff I tell you what, if there was one person I would *not* expect to accidentally create a solid, reliable, informative thing that would be a net benefit for humanity, it would be Jimmy Wales in the early 'aughts.
It took me a long time to warm up to it, and 90% of that was his personality.
I'm so glad that it got away from him, and that it has become one of the best things on the internet.
... He's probably still wondering how it happened...
The internet is not breaking down.
It is the profit-oriented social media of billionaires that are breaking something on their platforms in order to exploit their users even better for their customers and increase their wealth.
The Fediverse – whose spirit also lives on in Wikipedia – is the best proof that there are other communities in the virtual world that operate on a bottom-up principle.
There are also self-operated blogs, homepages, and forums run by committed people on the internet.
The internet is OK but the platforms of billionaires are not OK.
@molly0xfff hopefully they will release the article for free, I'd love to read it.
@mu @molly0xfff There's an archive copy just in case : https://archive.ph/pxaTm
@regendans @molly0xfff perfect, thank you
@molly0xfff Wikipedia is the closest we have to a real world Hitchhiker's Guide. Since GOP policy seems to be "destroy everything in the world that doesn't confirm our distorted understanding of reality", it's not surprising they are going after it.
@dantheclamman @molly0xfff
Ah the GOP, "a bunch of mindless jerks who will be the first up against the wall when the revolution comes."
@molly0xfff "Wikipedia is one of the few platforms online where tremendous computing power isn’t being deployed in the service of telling you exactly what you want to hear."
Good line& good point.
@molly0xfff I usually immediately dismiss The Verge's content on prior past misdeeds, but for once, they did actual journalism.
@molly0xfff I’m not really an AI person, and I don’t think the comparison is particularly fair, but I do remember how Wikipedia, and its supposed lack of veracious content, was once a joke. Like the idea that anyone could edit the site was seen as dangerous and foolhardy. Now it is lauded as an important repository. Feel like people are having the same feelings about AI right now. But again, they are very different things.
@justinw @molly0xfff
They are structurally different and it seems you feel it without quite knowing why.
LLMs are black boxes pushed by some of the most powerful companies in the world, for their own interest (top-down).
Anyone can check the full repository of all edits of Wikipedia and although anyone can contribute, most controversial topics are heavily cross-checked and debated, like in science (bottom-up).
LLMs, a tool, could be a force of good but not in this specific situation
I wonder whether that is a big part of the problem with LLMs: they're used to create tailored content for an individual recipient, and it is consumed privately. There is no public accountability for the veracity of the world of misinformation it is creating.
It's similar with targeted advertising. Everyone gets something slightly different, you can't compare experiences, or even prove that a company is lying to people... you don't know what they are seeing.
@pete @justinw @molly0xfff
It is indeed one aspect of LLMs that is part of a bigger picture : A/B testing (different people are shown different outputs from the exact same inputs from their part).
This situation you describe, where no one can trust anything unfortunately leads to a world in which no one can believe anything anymore.
This is more damning with LLMs because of their "black box" property : it is not possible to say which path led to the output onscreen.
But it is for Wikipedia