I sometimes watch a leftist youtuber that’s rarely if ever political on main but they’re a philosophy major so they’ll occasionally react to philosophy videos on live, and one time the entire chat of a couple thousand people was genuinely telling him that they would kill a human child for less than $10k. it progressively got worse until they were saying they’d kill an adult human being for a gaming setup. some said they’d kill both for free because “it wouldn’t affect” their own life.

the youtuber asked “what are you gonna do when you see them on the news bc they’re missing?” and the chatters said they’d just turn the tv off. if it was just a bit, they were really sticking to it, but he questioned them for an hour and they never relented or admitted they’d feel bad. his audience is primarily gen z. this is the revolutionary savior generation that wants to bring back the guillotine for “the bad people”. they don’t want to punish bad people, they just want to kill.

obviously this isn’t everyone. but the casual way people talk about actual murder is pervasive and so fucking dangerous and I don’t trust a single person claiming they just want “justice” by calling for it, when we know damn well they all think like this. they have no concept of guilt, shame, or grief when it doesn’t involve a political or social justice cause. they don’t have real empathy for people outside their own lives. but it sure does numbers on the internet.

I hate how you basically called Will “Mike’s girlfriend’s brother” because he and Mike have known each other since they were six, which is in fact way before Mike met El. Byler literally isn’t a “Thank God I Met Your Brother” kind of trope and it never has been.

And no, we don’t hate El. I cannot be more clear on this - of course some Bylers hate El and that’s shitty but not all of us.

and anyway, the majority of bylers rooting for el to break up with mike do so because they want her to become her own character without him.

for the majority of the series el’s character has revolved around mike in some way, and it would be nice to see her focus on developing her relationships with her other family and friends instead of trying to salvage a relationship she isn’t happy with (which is clear at the end of season four).

...I hope this isn't some zionist shit.

what i wrote is the definition of zionism, so yes it is ‘zionist shit.’ if you disagree with my statement i urge you to sit on that for a while or ask some productive questions.

I don't really care about your statement friend. Nor do i care much about you since you are so rude. Like your sentence was more cryptic then Alice in wonderland dumbass. Self determination ? Israel is not a country and i am already seated so my only productive question is a simple : Do you feel good about yourself ? At night, when you think about your life...Do you believe yourself truly happy ?

Do you not know what self determination is

What part of self determination involves killing and displacing Palestinians for 76 years??

Those are bad things that should not have happened. Now that that's been acknowledged, what part of self-determination for Palestinians involves shooting up a music festival and taking children as young as 5 hostage?

Probably from the fact that Israel has instituted a brutal blockade, which is an act of war, against Gaza since 2007.

Sorry to break it to you but Israel is not the victim here. Never has been. Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.

Palestinians have the right to defend themselves.

How is shooting up a concert "defending themselves?" How is taking hundreds of civilians hostage, including the elderly, the disabled, and children "defending themselves"? Please explain to me how deliberately harming innocents suddenly becomes justified if other innocents were harmed in the past.

First of all they were not attacking over a past event but a current one. Like I mentioned the blockade has been in effect since 2007 and led to widespread famine, homelessness, poverty, unclean water, and death. These are the conditions that lead to the attack. You want me to condemn the attack but ignore the conditions that lead to it. Well I’m not going to do that.

Honey, we're not talking about riots. We're not talking about destroying property. We're talking about intentionally murdering innocents. MLK was not talking about intentionally murdering innocents when he said that we must condemn the situations that give rise to riots as much as riots themselves, because those riots did not involve the intentional murder of innocents. If a group decides to intentionally murder innocents, it is always wrong. Nothing can ever justify it. What you are saying is that it is understandable and defensible to intentionally kill innocents if someone has enough hardships. So why don't you go tell the families of all those festival goers that you're not going to condemn the intentional, needless killings of their brothers and sisters, their sons and daughters, because you believe that having been oppressed is a justifiable reason to slaughter innocents.

@former-leftist-jew As a former leftist, I'm sure you ran into this quote alot. But even during the height of the George Floyd riots, this was never used to defend murder, was it?

YES. I was a hardcore leftie-liberal and living in LA, marching in the streets, and perpetually online during the BLM protests. (I was loath to admit it at the time, but most people there were young lefities and bored stir-crazy adults clearly looking for something to do since it was in the middle of COVID lock-downs. Most thefts were also done by young anarchist-wannabes and bougie kids looking for an excuse to go on a free shopping spree at their favorite bougie apparel store.

Still, a friend lived in an area that was hit by a destructive riot (thankfully they lived on a second story apartment building, so their windows were unharmed, which I can't say for the first story neighbors) and I worked at a store that was actually en route to where one riot (as in smashed windows and robbed stores) was projected to march through--we employees were on call to board up the windows and lock up the expensive liquor in the back storage room if the protest got too close to our store, though they wound up going a different direction and it never came to that.

Still, as someone who was there, let me say:

The #1 Moral Argument made by we BLM supporters against conservatives who complained about "destruction of property" at the time was: "The worst of us destroy property, while the worst of you KILL PEOPLE."

The argument that I and many other young lefties made at rich white conservative Trump supporting dinner parties and Christmas gathers made over and over again was: "Most of those shops were insured; smashed windows can be replaced; graffiti can be scrubbed off; stores can be restocked. But human lives can't be replaced. And what we're protesting is cops killing people for minor to nonexistent crimes."

Our #1 arguement was: "The worst of us destroy things, while the worst of you murder human beings."

@spaceshipspeaking999 SHAME ON YOU for besmirching MLK's memory and BLM's life-saving goal by drawing a false moral equivalency between non-violent protests and Hamas deliberately butchering and burning as many unarmed civilians alive as they could, in the most gruesomely painful and gleefully sadistic way possible. SHAME ON YOU.

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WHAT'S MORE, MLK and his followers didn't engage in violence or riots to begin with. They peacefully protested segregationist policies by sitting in "whites-only" spaces and patiently waited to be served.

Contrast this to Hamas' Oct 7th massacre, in which they deliberately targeted as many unarmed civilians as they could, leaving most physical property undamaged yet most bodies mutilated.

This is not "the language of the unheard."

This was barbarism, cruelty, and gleeful sadism for its own sake.

Even the worst of the black riots in 1960's America didn't consist of black people storming whites-only neighborhoods to shoot, stab, behead, gang-rape, burn alive and loot every single white person they could get their hands on. (Can you fucking imagine?)

As Douglass Murray pointed out, Jews who'd just limped out of the death camps didn't go around raping, beheading, burning or looting every single gentile they could get their hands on. (Quite the opposite, in fact.)

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What's more, you should read MLK's entire famous Letter from Birmingham Jail, not just the one paragraph that extremists love to cherry-pick to excuse their own violent and self-indulgent behavior. Particularly his passages about "negotiation" and "self-purification."

In any nonviolent campaign there are four basic steps: collection of the facts to determine whether injustices exist; negotiation; self purification; and direct action. We have gone through all these steps in Birmingham... There have been more unsolved bombings of Negro homes and churches in Birmingham than in any other city in the nation. These are the hard, brutal facts of the case. On the basis of these conditions, Negro leaders sought to negotiate with the city fathers. But the latter consistently refused to engage in good faith negotiation.

Then, last September, came the opportunity to talk with leaders of Birmingham’s economic community. In the course of the negotiations, certain promises were made by the merchants—for example, to remove the stores’ humiliating racial signs. On the basis of these promises, the Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth and the leaders of the Alabama Christian Movement for Human Rights agreed to a moratorium on all demonstrations. As the weeks and months went by, we realized that we were the victims of a broken promise. A few signs, briefly removed, returned; the others remained.

... Mindful of the difficulties involved, we decided to undertake a process of self purification. We began a series of workshops on nonviolence, and we repeatedly asked ourselves: “Are you able to accept blows without retaliating?” “Are you able to endure the ordeal of jail?” We decided to schedule our direct action program for the Easter season, realizing that except for Christmas, this is the main shopping period of the year. Knowing that a strong economic-withdrawal program would be the by product of direct action, we felt that this would be the best time to bring pressure to bear on the merchants for the needed change.

Notice how many times MLK stresses collection of facts and negotiation with white merchants and lawmakers; how often they took white merchants' and lawmakers' promises at their word and agreed to stop protesting until the latter failed to deliver on their verbal agreements, and how often he and his followers engaged in "self-purification" (or self-reflection and self-improvement) to make sure they approached white lawmakers and merchants peacefully, non-violently, and in good faith.

MLK and his followers protested economic exclusion by peacefully sitting in at "whites-only" establishments; by causing peaceful and non-violent economic disruption in the face of economic persecution. NEVER did they raise a hand against whites.

Now, let's look at the facts. How many times have Palestinian Arabs negotiated with Israel for statehood, and often has Israel responded?

Israel has directly offered Palestinian statehood five separate times in the last 75+ years, and each time Palestinian "leaders" have rejected it. Violently.

Palestinian Arabs violently attacking Israeli citizens after the latter offered the former statehood tells me that it's not really statehood that they want, but Israeli deaths instead.

In fact, here's a passage from "Son of Hamas" pg 126-7, a memoir written by Mosab Hassan Yousef, son of one of Hamas' seven co-founders and a former Hamas operative himself. He had a front-row seat of the Camp David Summit of 2000 from a high-ranking Palestinian perspective (since his father was close personal friends with Arafat), and he was rubbing elbows and kissing the cheeks of the "palestinian" leaders who turned it down for personal gain:

The Camp David Summit between Yasser Arafat, American president Bill Clinton, and Israeli prime minister Ehud Barak ended on July 25, 2000. Barak had offered Arafat about 90 percent of the West Bank, the entire Gaza Strip, and East Jerusalem as the capital of a new Palestinian state. In addition, a new international fund would be established to compensate Palestinians for the property that had been taken from them. This "land of peace" offer represented a historic opportunity for the long-suffering Palestinian people, something few Palestinians would have dared imagine possible. But even so, it was not enough for Arafat.

Yasser Arafat had grown extraordinarily wealthy as the international symbol of victimhood. He wasn't about to surrender that status and take the responsibility of actually building a functioning society. So he insisted that all the refugees be permitted to return to the lands they had owned prior to 1967--a condition he was confident Israel would not accept.

... Now that I was traveling with my father and attending meetings with Arafat, I began to see for myself how much the man loved the media attention. He seemed to relish being portrayed as some kind of Palestinian Che Guevara and a peer of kings, presidents, and prime ministers... But as I watched him, I always thought, Yes, let him be remembered in our history books, not as a hero, but as a traitor who sold out his people for a ride on their shoulders. As a reverse Robin Hood, who plundered the poor and made himself rich. As a cheap ham, who bought his place in the limelight with Palestinian blood.

It was also interesting to see Arafat through the eyes of my contacts in the Israeli intelligence. "What is this guy doing?" my Shin Bet handler asked me one day. "We never though our [Israeli] leaders would give up what they offered Arafat. Never! And he said no?"

Indeed, Arafat had been handed the keys to peace in the Middle East along with real nationhood for the Palestinian people--and he had thrown them away.

So, yeah. EVEN IF you wanted to excuse the times "Palestinian" Arab leaders refused statehood in 1920, 1936, 1947, and 1967-70, all excuses flew out the window by 2000. Palestinian Arabs were given the best fucking offer that any human reasonably could expect or hope for under the circumstances in this putrid world of ouYasser Arafat and the Pal

EVEN DESPITE Yasser Arafat's refusal, Israel completely withdrew from Gaza and effectively gave Palestinian Gazans self-determination and self-rule five years later in 2005. And if you don't believe me (if you think it's "Zionist propaganda,") here'a BBC source!

In 2005, Israel completely withdrew from Gaza and forcefully removed every single Israeli "settler," effectively giving Palestinian Gazans a state: the ability to "self-govern" without any Israeli/Jewish presence or involvement.

How did Gazans respond? They voted in the violent terrorist organization Hamas in 2006 (here's their founding charter), who promptly killed their political opponents Fatah in 2007, haven't held an election since, ripped up all existing Israeli infrastructure (pipes, aqueducts, etc), built extensive terror tunnels underground, and Hamas has been firing rockets at Israel non-stop since 2005.

Today, she [an Israeli former settler] says that nothing was gained for Israel by disengagement.

"Terrorists are firing over missiles in an easier way now because we were a buffer and now we are not," she told me.

"The missiles are falling further and further into Israel. If peace would have come out of this, we would have said it was worthwhile, but nothing came out of it."

Let me repeat: Palestinian Gazans attacked Israel more after Israel completely withdrew from Gaza and left Gazans with 100% self-rule than they did before.

So, you know what?

NO. There is NO EXCUSE for the violent deaths of Israelis.

MLK and true BLM protestors would be ashamed and disgusted with your excuse of the murder of innocent civilians over imagined "land theft" and "humiliating checkpoints," which Palestinian Arabs have rejected every single Israeli offer to rectify in the last 75+ years.

One last quote from Hamas' Charter 1988:

Article 11: The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day

Article 7: The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem).

Let me tell you right the fuck now: Jews are willing to give up land for peace. We are NOT willing to bare our necks before the executioner's axe just because Islamists demand it.

People who quote that MLK line always forget that he followed it up by calling riots self-defeating, and at no point did he endorse killing innocent people.

They also forget that he himself was a zionist.

MLK stood stalwartly side by side with the Jewish community, and there is no conceivable universe where he would encourage and applaud the rape, torture, violent abduction, and mass murder of people at a music festival, fleeing in terror on the roads, hiding in bomb shelters where they were then killed, and their slaughter in their own homes, defenseless in their own safe rooms. he would not agree with families being tied together and burned alive. he would not agree with firing RPGs into cars and ambulances, with sexually mutilating women and men and children and elderly, with beating and desecrating stolen bodies as they’re dragged through the streets, with kidnapping toddlers. I am so sick of seeing this man’s name weaponized to defend a genocidal terrorist organization whose aim of killing every Jew they can find is in their charter. that is not liberation, it is not civil rights, it is not humanitarian, it is not fighting for peace or equality.

but then I remember the people defending this horror don’t view the victims (even the ones who were not Israeli nor Jewish) as worthy of human dignity and life, as valuable, because they don’t apply any of their so-called morals to Jews or Israelis or anyone willing to lend sympathy to them.

MLK would be ashamed of anyone misusing his memory in this way. unlike many of these people, he would be capable of criticizing the war and the corruption of politicians and the actions of terrorists, while holding space and empathy for the innocent lives affected and loving the Jewish community. stop dishonoring his legacy and learn from him instead.

That fucking fash needs to get MLK’s name out of his filthy pathetic mouth.

Also, there's absolutely no way to get statistics on this. Sweden is commonly counted as gaming the most rapes per capita but that's because every report is counted as a separate rape. So if a hospital, a teacher, a therapist, and a cop make a report about the same incident, that's four reported rapes for one actual rape.

Contrast that with the dozens of countries were martial rape isn't a crime and isn't reported, or girls can't talk about being assaulted because it exposes them to honor killings.

I mean, obviously these antisemitic morons don't care about basic statistical analysis but still. This is such bullshit.

This may be mistaken for half-assing it but you would be wrong. I am whole-assing but I've distributed my ass across multiple tasks and didn't finish anything. But. Multiple chores are more done than they were before. Take it or leave it

Failing at critical thinking by dint of being ignorant of the magical Kill Only The Bad People Who Deserve It And Nobody Else button that we have. Apparently

ooh my turn! you’re also kicking nazis out of pro-palestine spaces right? you’re not tolerating any form of nazi symbolism or rhetoric? you’re putting in effort to make it clear that antisemitism isn’t welcome? you’re punching the nazi right next to you? right?

oh, and you must be condemning the man who set josh shapiro’s house on fire during passover. you must be condemning the man who shot two people exiting a jewish museum. you must be condemning the man who threw molotov cocktails at a gathering of jews and killed a holocaust survivor.

you must be condemning the people who murdered over twelve hundred jews and kidnapped over two hundred fifty.

because those were all done in the name of palestine, and you don’t want to be associated with those actions, right?

People pretend to be pregnant for clout it started with one woman named dvd and people been chasing the same high since

meant eve

Wanting the hostages home does not at all mean you don't also acknowledge the suffering of Palestinians.

Also like, hostage rallies and protests do have antizionist jews. The one on Boulder Colorado, ya know, the one which a dude attacked, had antizionist jews in attendance.

Not that these people care. It's blatent that they're just wrapping their jew hatred in pro Palestine wrapping hoping to fool everyone.

I raise you:

Dustin is there when it happens and Mike tells him "don't tell Will"

i think it just really boils down to “right wingers hate jews for not being white enough/too middle eastern and left wingers hate jews for being too white/not middle eastern enough” and left wingers can’t comprehend the latter as bigotry

youre so fuckign right

Where is this picture of a horse in pyjamas and how did I miss it?

you know I figured it was just a random example but then I googled it

Oh shit