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The Truth Behind The Lies (Sinder Situation)

The Sinder Situation

Greetings. My name is WiccanistVT, and I'd like to summarize everything with the “Sinder Situation” with all the information that is currently available, past and new. This isn't to prove that Sinder is totally innocent, but to show how things were handled by all parties, and show some insight.

I first like to thank everyone before me that has done rigorous research, and have created a doc or a video on this subject. I'll be leaving a list of few of the creators here:

Powdur - Document

Tuxnaku - Videos

Selena_August - Document

Sparky’s Tech Corner - Videos/Streams

YasuVF - Document

Mizutamari - Videos/Streams

MommaOcco - Videos/Streams

GVP Gameplays - Videos/Streams

EagleEye - Videos

And finally my group who have restlessly gathered existing information, and researched for more.

TIMELINE

(Credit to Powdur’s document)

Before the Docs Were Shared on Twitter

 04/12/25

  • Nanoless leaks to Shylily a DM that was conversed between her (Nano) and Redacted about Shylily. (Shylily's video)
  • Nanoless leaks to Shylily DM’s that was conversed between her (Nano) and Redacted discussing other clients. (Shylily's video)
  • Shylily encourages Nanoless to share these DMs with others that were mentioned in the DM’s. (Shylily's video)

04/18/25

  • Shylily reaches out to Bao to talk about the DM’s, but Bao asks her to wait because she is going into surgery. (Bao's video)

04/24/25

  • After Bao received her surgery, Shylily reached out again, telling Bao that it was important and couldn’t put it off anymore. (Bao's video)
  • Shylily, Bao, and Nanoless form a group chat on discord to discuss everything. (Shylily's video)
  • Shylily, Bao, and Nanoless discuss “all possible solutions” and decide to make a google doc. (Bao's video)
  • Bao was told to include private information about Sinder being in a relationship. (Bao's video)
  • Bao was pressured into a position to speak up or “no one else would”. (Bao's video)
  • Bao felt there was no other choice, and believed the doc to be the right choice. (Bao's video)
  • Shylily, Bao, and Nanoless decide to sleep on their idea for the night. (Shylily's video)

04/25/25

  • Shylily, Nanoless, and Bao make the decision to post the docs publicly on Twitter.
  • (10:42 PM) Nano releases doc - Source
  • (10:48 PM) Bao releases doc - Source
  • (11:05 PM) Sac (video editor for Bao) releases doc - Source
  • After the initial doc’s were released, Sinder/Redacted reached out to Nano privately. (Shylily's video)
  • Nano blocks them. (Shylily's video)

04/26/25

  • (1:24 AM) Sinder releases a statement on Twitter removing her manager (“Redacted”) from his position - Source
  • (1:56 AM) Vampeaches claims Sinder’s manager is also her boyfriend - Source
  • (5:59 AM) Rayne releases doc - Source
  • (9:29 AM) Spite releases doc - Source *note these 3 docs were released early morning*
  • (3:18 PM) Silvervale releases doc - Source

4/27/25

  • (1:16 PM) Sinder releases apology - Source
  • (2:22 PM) Bao quote tweets reacting to Sinder’s apology - Source
  • (3:41 PM) Shylily replies to Sinder’s apology - Source

DM’s in Chronological Order

5/10/23 - 4:14 AM

Source: Nanoless and Spite’s Doc

 

 

     

  • Redacted claims there is a Vtuber copying Sinder’s brand.
  • Spite claims she is the Vtuber being talked about.
  • This is the only time Spite is mentioned.

7/19/23 - 12:46 PM

Source: Nanoless and Silvervales Doc

  • Redacted wants Silvervale to recognize Sinder, but understands why Silvervale wouldn’t.
  • Redacted claims that Silvervale is watching what Sinder does and copies her.
  • Redacted gives an example of a spinning figurine GIF which Sinder used on stream before Silvervale did.

8/29/23 - 11:12 PM

  • Bao is asking for business details from Sac. This is the proof that Bao has been working with this video editor since 2023

9/3/23 - 10:29 PM

Source: Bao’s Doc

  • Bao reaching out to Sinder’s YouTube video editor/channel manager for business details.

10/20/23 - 6:40 PM

Source: Silvervale’s Doc

  • Sinder (girl on the right) posts a picture on Twitter of her at Twitchcon 2023 at Silvervale’s meet-and-greet.
  • Silvervale claims this was the only time they talked directly.

10/22/23 - 8:37 AM

Source: Silvervale’s Doc

  • Silvervale’s manager at Mythic (talent management company) reaches out to Silvervale on Sinder’s behalf to ask for a collaboration.
  • Silvervale politely declines.

10/24/23 - 11:44 AM

Source: Silvervale’s Doc

  • Sinder sent Silvervale a friend request on Discord, which she accepted.
  • Sinder offers a different type of collaboration (sponsorships, merch, music, etc..) to Silvervale, and she politely declines again.

11/15/23 - 9:39 AM

Source: Silvervale’s Doc

  • Sinder reached out to Silvervale about receiving her Gamer Supps merch in the mail.

11/17/23 - 10:31 PM

Source: Silvervale’s Doc

  • Nanoless reaches out to Silvervale cancelling her model commission due to health reasons, but is open to doing other art commissions.
  • Nanoless claims she can work on Silvervale’s model sometime next year.
  • Silvervale is upset, but understands the reasoning for the cancellation.

11/17/23 - 10:59 PM

Source: Nanoless’ Doc

  • Redacted sends DM to Nanoless expressing that as there are more Nano babies (model clients), it becomes less special to be one.

11/19/23 - 4:50 PM

Source: Nanoless and Silvervales Doc

  • Nanoless’ doc suggests Sinder and Redacted have an obsession with Silvervale. This DM is part of her proof.

11/25/23 - 10:46 AM Source: Nanoless Doc

  • “This” refers to the DM on 11/17/2023 - 10:59 PM sourced above.

Source: Nanoless Doc

Source: Silvervale and Nanoless’s Doc

  • Nanoless says she doesn’t want Sinder to be her sole model client - she doesn’t want to sacrifice other clients/projects just for Sinder.
  • Redacted apologizes for giving the impression that they wanted Nanoless to only work for them (Sinder/Redacted).
  • Redacted understands Nanoless’ desire to continue working with other people, and they clear up some miscommunication.
  • Redacted and Nanoless want to continue working together in the future.
  • Nanoless tells Redacted she wanted to be transparent with both sides (Sinder, Silvervale, and potentially other clients).
  • Redacted asks Nanoless if she told Silvervale she canceled her model because of Sinder. Nanoless told Silvervale she canceled because of health issues (see screenshots on 11/17/2023 - 10:31 PM)
  • Redacted apologizes to Nanoless again, and reinforces that they (Redacted/Sinder) don’t want to make Nanoless feel like she’s forced to work with only them.

11/26/23 - 3:03 PM Source: Nanoless Doc

  • Nanoless reaches out to Sinder directly to address conversations between Nanoless and Redacted. Nanoless asks for Sinder’s thoughts on the DM on 11/17/2023 - 10:59 PM (see above).
  • Sinder stands by what Redacted has said, but is very understanding of Nanoless working with other clients if she chooses.
  • Nanoless reassures Sinder even though she will be working with other clients in addition to Sinder, Nanoless will have a priority spot for Sinder when available.

8/5/2024 - 4:13 PM

Source: Nanoless Doc

  • “Red asked me to cancel on one of their closest friends (Bao) by asking me to cancel my work mid progress, manipulating me into thinking it is okay since “she has many connections” and she’ll be fine anyway so I wouldn’t feel guilty about it or worry too much. It was and is upsetting to me that Red contacted me specifically to check on me cancelling the model I had planned with Bao.” - Nanoless’ Doc
  • Nanoless’ claim that Redacted asked her to cancel on Bao is not supported by this DM. Redacted seems to be checking if she did cancel with anyone, not asking to cancel Bao specifically. Where is the conversation about cancelling Bao’s commission? How come we don’t see that?
  • Nanoless hasn’t canceled yet, and is scared to cancel with Bao.
  • Redacted reassures her that Bao can find another artist quickly due to her connections.
  • Nanoless thinks about giving the model design to Bao for free as an apology for canceling.

Source: Bao’s Doc

  • Redacted is telling Nanoless not to sell herself short by giving the design away for free. He says maybe sell it at half price if Bao is upset.
  • Nanoless agrees and mentions that opening model inquiries was a mistake.

9/28/24 - 4:44 PM Source: Sac’s Doc

9/29/24 - 7:43 PM Source: Sac’s Doc

10/23/24 - 10:43 AM

Source: Sac’s Doc

11/12/24 - 11:00 AM

Sourc: Sac’s Doc

11/29/24 - 9:21 AM

Source: Sac’s Doc

12/8/2024 - 10:45 PM

Source: Bao’s Doc

  • Sac is going to work exclusively with Bao moving forward.

1/15/25 - 6:48 PM

Source: Nanoless and Silvervale’s Doc

  • Redacted inquires about an exclusivity deal with Nanoless.
  • Nanoless entertains the idea and asks for more details.
  • Redacted wants Nanoless to not take on any new model clients, and not make new models/outfits for Silvervale. This doesn’t apply to Nanoless’ other clients. Nanoless can still do artwork commissions for anyone.
  • Redacted is concerned that new Nanoless clients devalue her existing clients, and doesn’t want Nanoless to work with specific people.
  • Redacted claims there has been drama between Sinder and other creators, and doesn’t want those creators to have access to Nanoless.

1/15/25 - 8:29 PM

Source: Nanoless and Bao’s Doc

  • Redacted elaborates on the drama between Sinder and other creators

  • Redacted elaborates on more drama between Sinder and Bao. Redacted shares his opinions on Bao’s MVs, the MV editor (Sac), and why he went exclusive with Bao.

Source: Bao’s Doc

  • Nanoless didn’t include this part

  • Redacted brings up a tweet made by Sac (Bao’s MV editor) about going exclusive with Bao.

Source: Nanoless’ Doc

  • Redacted claims that Bao is after one of Redacted/Sinder’s L2D animators.
  • Redacted is worried that Bao is going to commission Nanoless which means less time for Sinder.

1/15/25 - 9:00 PM Source: Nanoless, Bao’s, and Silvervale’s Doc

  • There’s a gap in the conversation between Redacted at 8:54 PM and Redacted at 9:00 PM. Why is this left out?
  • Redacted offers different terms for the exclusivity deal. He doesn’t want Nanoless to work with Bao, BLANK, or Silvervale at all (models and art).
  • Nanoless asks for more compensation since Silvervale commissions her every now and then.
  • Redacted counter offers.

2/11/25 - 7:18 PM

Source: Nanoless and Silvervale’s Doc

  • Nanoless reaches out to Sinder directly about “stepping back” on the exclusivity deal. She wanted to apologize to Sinder. Nanoless didn’t want to be dragged into personal issues because it’s taking a toll on mental health.
  • Nanoless understands that her unwillingness to fully part with Silvervale as a client may cause strain on their (Nanoless & Sinder) relationship
  • Sinder apologizes for pushing the Silvervale terms on Nanoless.
  • Sinder expresses her insecurities about being compared to Silvervale.
  • Nanoless reassures Sinder that she would not prioritize Silvervale over her.
  • Nanoless is fine not creating models for Silvervale, but still wants to do art commissions for her.
  • Sinder and Nanoless agree that they still like each other and sympathize with each other.

3/20/25 - 8:32 PM Source: Bao’s Doc

  • This is Bao’s proof that she was in a call with her video editors, including Kaizer, who was first Sinder’s video editor. Bao claims that she commissions Kaizer for one stream highlight a month.
  • Bao claims Kaizer wanted a raise from Sinder, but was afraid due to turning down an exclusivity deal.
  • Bao claims that she urged Kaizer to take the exclusivity deal, and it would not affect their (Bao/Kaizer) relationship.

4/12/25 - 10:16 PM Source: Nanoless Doc

  • Redacted asks Nanoless if she has plans with Shylily other than the current model commission. Nanoless says no.
  • Redacted is worried about Shylily’s model commission since Shylily has been acting strange to Sinder.
  • Redacted is worried that Nanoless’ commission with Shylily will lead to less time with Sinder.
  • Nanoless informs Redacted of her upcoming commissions.
  • Redacted is worried about Shylily’s actions and wants to stay competitive.
  • Nanoless is cropping the DMs to leave out more info. What was said between Redacted at 10:22 PM and 10:24 PM, as well as 10:25 PM and 10:29 PM?

IN DEFENSE OF SINDER

(The Great Debunking)

First, i’d like to say that i won’t be covering everyone that dogpiled on sinder, and only the main, and some secondary actors. Each actor will be under their own subtitle to keep this document fluid and readable as possible.

SPITE

Spite’s claim is that Sinder copied parts of her model. Though I can agree some are very similar, we must realise that Sinder is a Hellhound, and Spite is a Cerberus (though Spite doesn’t have multiple heads). Naturally these two mythic animals share the same attributes as they take a dog form. Spite’s claim that Sinder copied is false.

First let’s establish that Spite designs her own models, and has someone else rig her model shown in the following picture.

Now let’s look at some time stamps.

As you can see, Sinder was using a PNG avatar for her streams. Notice the date of the post is June 27th, 2021.

Here you can see that Sinders reference sheet was made in 2020. Remember Sinder was using a PNG avatar through 2021 and till this post’s date. As indicated, a 2D model was being made in, or around August 17, 2022. Also you can see that blue flames and blue color scheme are part of the original concept.

In Spite’s post here, you can see that Spite’s 1.0 model was made in 2021. So even though Sinder’s 1.0 model was being made after Spite’s 1.0 model, Sinder’s reference sheet was out months before Spite’s model.

 

Another point of contention is the hoodie models. Spite claims that Sinder copied her.

*note* Spite says April 20th, when her actual debut was on the 29th. I believe this was just a typo.

 

As these designs are very similar, the hoodie with ears concept has been around for years.

This proves that Sinder did not copy Spite on this model, they used a concept that had already been made.

Recently one of Sinders artists spoke out to refute the claims that Sinder copied Spite.

 

.

VAMPEACHES

Vampeaches is a former friend of Sinder, who felt forgotten about due to Sinder’s “rise to fame”. As we already know, Bao was being pressured by Shylily to include the private information that Redacted wasn’t just Sinder’s manager, but also her “lover”. Though Bao did release a document, she did not include the information on Sinder’s relationship with Redacted. Almost immediately (which is suspect), Vampeaches released a series of Twitter posts exposing that Sinder and Redacted were in a relationship. After Sinder released her apology stating that she did not know Redacted was doing these things, the “mean girls” used Sinder and Redacted’s relationship as a point of attack, stating that they “operate as one person and she knows 100% of what Redacted is doing”. I’ll be using some items proving otherwise.

In this video, Sinder talks about her housemates, living in the basement, and why she can’t do ASMR streams. (Source)

Sinder once again confirms that she has lived in her housemate's basement “for the last 3 years”.(Source)

Sinder again talks about moving, also mentioning her father. (Source)

Sinder receives candles, talks about her house being made, then she says “Then I can pretend I have a man come home to me” (Source)

Finally, this picture is from Raynes doc.

Here we see Rayne saying “it’s hard when your boyfriend is far, far, away”.

These 5 points of evidence suggest that Sinder and Redacted do not live together, and they were/are in a long distance relationship, disproving that Sinder could have known 100% of what Redacted was doing.

NANOLESS

As you all know, Nanoless was Sinder’s main artist. Nanoless and Sinders' interactions started early in their careers. Nanoless was only doing model art, but did not know how to live 2D cut. Sinder was looking for an artist to rebrand, and was having no luck. Sinder fell in love with Nanoless’s art and commissioned her, but also had to find someone to teach nanoless how to live 2D cut.

On April 26th, 2025 Nanoless tweeted out shocking the Vtuber community with the document she had linked.

I'd like to point out some things that are suspicious in this document. The dm’s don’t also lack context, but also were placed out of order to confuse the reader. I believe this was done so the reader would gloss over the finer details.

Credited to Sparky’s Tech Corner, and his crew, Nanoless’s version of the dm’s were different to Bao’s version.There are multiple instances of edited screenshots to hide important information, like the following.

   

As you can see, 1 line has been edited out by Nanoless.

As you can see here, when the screenshot is put through a photo forensic program (courtesy of Sparky’s Tech Corner), it is shown that the image has possibly been digitally altered. This is indicated by the different shade of black that is perfectly shaped around the one paragraph.

Let's move on to the accusation made that Redacted asked for other vtubers commissions to be cancelled by Nanoless.

Seen here, Redacted is asking IF Nanoless canceled commissions, not to cancel them.

 

     

 

These are the same conversations. One is censored, and the other uncensored.

Redacted asks Nanoless if she cancelled commissions because of Sinder, and she claims no, that it was because of health issues.

She also states “I would never blame anyone besides Mio”

Ok, so who is Mio?

Mio is Nanoless’s manager and husband. This can be confirmed from Nanoless’s statement saying her manager wanted her to cancel commissions, because of her health, then saying Mio would be the only one to blame.

The next screenshots further solidify that Mio is Nanoless’s manager and husband.

As you see in these pictures, Nanoless has “Husb” beside Mio’s name, and Mio has a heart next to Nanoless’s name.

From these screenshots, Nanoless was in fact sick, and during this time she cancelled on Bao and Silvervale, refuting the claim that they were both cancelled because of Redacted.

In these screenshots Mio is talking about Nano’s workload.

 

Later that day Nanoless states she’s finished a model that turns out to be Ironmouse’s.

These screenshots further prove that Nanoless was always having mental and health issues, proving that Nanoless cancelled Silvervale and Bao for health issues and not because of Redacted.

Let's move on to the exclusivity deal.

As we know, Nanoless claimed that she was being “manipulated” and “gaslit” by Redacted. This is far from the truth.

Here we can see Nanoless and Redacted talking about the deal. The one thing about this screenshot is that this is also another of the many edited.

This is the original, unedited version. At the bottom we can see that not only was Nanoless actively considering the deal, she also made a counter offer.

Here we can see that Nanoless steps back from the deal, even after making her counter offer. So the accusations of “sabotage”, and damage done to other Vtubers is false.

Shylily, the Orcastrator

Now we come to the main actor. Shylily was the first person that Nanoless leaked the dm’s between herself and Redacted. There is some discrepancy of exactly when she was shown.

Here we see Redacted saying that Shylily has been acting weird, by skipping out of collabs with sinder.

Shylily confirms this on one of her streams (Shylily's stream). In this clip, she also says "I already knew”, referring to being shown the dm’s from Nanoless.

She also mentions that one of the days was because of a dentist appointment.

Here you can see the date of the appointment was 3/8/2025. This effectively puts the “collab skipping” around that date.

Let us now refer back to the date that Nanoless dropped her doc.

As you can see, Nanoless dropped her doc on April 26th, 2025.

In the same video Shylily confirmed she skipped collabs, she says “That one screenshot from a couple days ago started everything” (Shylily's stream) dated 4/28/2025. So this contradicts the actual date when she was dodging collabs, when she says “I already knew”, effectively showing that she knew about the screenshots months before Nanoless’s doc dropped, not just “a few days” before. This can also be confirmed by Buffpup in her stream. (Source).

As mentioned before in the timeline at the beginning of this document, the docs that were dropped within minutes of each other.  

  • (10:42 PM) Nano releases doc
  • (10:48 PM) Bao releases doc
  • (11:05 PM) Sac (video editor for Bao) releases doc

With all this information it leads to, the attack on Sinder was premeditated.

A point of attack that Shylily used, was what Vampeaches said in her tweet about sinder. With Shylily this brings in an element of hypocrisy on her part. If we go back in Shylily’s history, she states that she had installed a keylogger on one of her ex’s laptops, because she suspected him of cheating on her (Source). It seems to be that Shylily believes in “Rules for thee, but not for me”. How can we hold Sinder to Shylily’s standard, when she can't hold those standards herself.

Another showing of “Rules for thee, but not me” moment was about the exclusivity deal that Redacted was negotiating with Nanoless. Shylily and others shamed Redacted (and Sinder by proxy), for seeking an exclusivity deal and “barring Nanoless from working with other creators” but when the Vshojo drama happened, Shylily had a different story. She says that exclusivity/non-comp deals are good         (Source).

Numi’s Concert

Numi’s concert was another use for Shylily to use against Sinder. Shylily states that Sinder completely missed Numi’s concert to do the V-Card box opening. There are several things that refute this. One, people that had bought tickets to Numi’s concert, and two, videos of other streamers confirming that Sinder was there.

This is Bao's video where she states that Sinder was at Numi’s concert (skip to timestamp 4:37 and 14:00 Source)

This is Vienna’s video stating that Sinder was at the concert (skip to timestamp 16:40 Source)

Here is a twitter post made by Sinder, which is also seen in Bao’s video.

Now you may ask why Shylily would do this to Sinder? Well the most logical answer would be jealousy and pettiness. In the following i’ll be showing examples of why this is highly probable, and the pattern that Shylily shows to support it.

Shylily’s Motive (possibly)

As stated above, my theory of why Shylily planned this smear campaign was because of jealousy and pettiness. Here is why.

As we know, Shylily is a part owner of GamerSupps. On January 16th 2025, Sinder announced that she has become a part owner of GamerSupps.

Now why is this relevant? Let us look at some numbers.

As you can see in this picture (found by MommaOcco), Shylily owns 5% of GamerSupps, and Sinder owns double the amount at 10% of GamerSupps.

Now you may ask, why does this matter? Well, let's look at some other things.

Again we can see that Sinder was making double the bits then Shylily.

 

Also Sinder was growing rapidly.

What I believe set things off is when Sinder referred to herself as Charizard, pertaining to V-card, that Sinder was fire and Shylily was water.

 

As innocent as it seems, Shylily crashes out about it on a stream.

Shylily shows pettiness toward Sinder, even months after the drama. She will not call Sinder by her name, and banned anything to do with Sinder from her twitch chat.

Other instances of pettiness by Shylily or people close to her consists of taking the quote “It’s Just Business", and editing it on a meme with her face on it, and uses it as her ending scene on one of her streams.

Later Shylily’s editor/clipper Pierre, created a t-shirt with the same meme, and wore it to Twitch Con.

   

At the beginning of this section, you have noticed that I underlined the word “Double”. There is a reason as to why I've done it, and will explain why I've brought this up now.

As many of you know of the Vshojo situation that has happened recently. With them taking Ironmouse’s money that was originally meant for charity, she decided to start another one. With all the donations that were made, the end total was more than 1 million.

One of those donors was Sinder.

Shylily could not let a good thing alone, and one ups Sinder shortly after.

You may ask, why do I say Shylily “one up” Sinder. Yes you can see Shylily donated more than Sinder, but when you look at the amount, it seems that Shylily was trying to “double” Sinder. Yes, I admit it’s not exactly “double” mathematically, but when you see Sinder’s donation at $6,666.00 and then Shylily’s donation at $12,222.22, it's quite obvious what Shylily’s intention was.

Shylily later refunds her donation, after she received backlash on Twitter, but later tries to defend herself by saying that she was trying to donate $10,000 Euro, and it's not her fault that the exchange to USD looked like she was trying to double Sinder’s donation (Source). In the video you can see the level of Pettiness not just towards Sinder, but towards people on twitter.

To answer Shylily’s question, yes we do watch your streams. Not long after her stream, the exchange rate defence was debunked.

She also states that she wanted to donate anonymously, and could not find how to, yet when there is clearly an option to do so.

This clearly shows that she will lie to defend herself, and her followers will take it blindly.

CONCLUSION

This is where I summarize everything in the situation.

  • First for all, this was blown out of proportion by Shylily and others. Instead of going to Sinder, and resolving the situation privately, they decided to coordinate a drop of google documents to dogpile Sinder.

  • Shylily knew about the problem before the previous mention of the week before the google document drop.

  • Nanoless took screen shots from her conversations with Redacted and Sinder, edited and out of context.

  • Nanoless did cancel commissions on her own free will, and by suggestion by her manager/husband Mio.

  • Nanoless, after entertaining the idea and making a counter offer, she refused the exclusivity deal, thus no one was backstabbed.

  • The notion that Sinder knew everything is false, as she was in a long distance relationship with Redacted.

  • Sinder did show up to Numi’s concert as stated by Vienna and Bao.

  • Sinder is only guilty of what she did to Silvervale, and she apologised for that.

  • Shylily planned the whole thing out of jealousy and pettiness, because of how fast Sinder was growing.

Thus comes the end of my document. Again I'd like to thank everyone that has been involved that’s listed at the beginning. If it wasn't for them, and tireless hours, this information may not have seen the light of day. Hopefully this document sheds light on the situation, that it was deeper than it originally seemed. I also hope that document changes the minds of people who blindly followed the narrative, and they recognize the truth. To all the people that read this document, I thank you for taking the time to do so.

Wiccanist