IDF Ordered Hannibal Directive on October 7 to Prevent Hamas Taking Soldiers Captive
Gaza Division operations and airstrikes in the first hours of October 7 were based on limited information. The first long moments after the Hamas attack was launched were chaotic. Reports were coming in, with their significance not always clear. When their meaning was understood, it was realized that something horrific had taken place.
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36
Thanks/numbers/Pessi Cohen's home
08:50 18.10.2024
Thanks for coverage. There is much controversy here someone at a campus peace event here in the US told me something like "well you know, most of the civilians were killed by the IDF, not Hamas; after all, Hamas doesn't haveTomahawk missiles." But as this article seems to suggest, most Israelis killed by missiles were probably near the border. Not at the music festival and now in the kibbutzim etc. I thought he was nuts at the time, yet another self-serving story, but this article at least makes it.. possibly half true. Or 7% true. Or whatever. Yes, it would be really interesting to know how many civilians died in connection with the directive, but who knows if we will every know. Re: Cohen's house in Be'eri. One thing I don't get is, if there were sufficient Israeli forces to destroy the rooms with tank fire (?), then why didn't they try something else? The 'worst' (sorry) that could have happened is that some of the hostages died if talks failed. But why just kill everyone?
35
Robert Sattar
16:39 13.07.2024
Negotiations taking place to release hostages has a price tag. Unfortunately for many pro-Palestinian here it isn't to release stone throwers, it's to release hardened terrorists. So the Hannibal directive is a legitimate military order. It is to stop tge future release of terrorists. I don't think there is anyone today that would say that Gilad Shalit should have stayed in Gaza if it meant stopping Yahya Sinwar from being released from jail. I think there are 38,000 dead Palestinian that would agree with me today.
Reply to comment
TerryT
22:20 22.07.2024Robert Sattar
You think that the dead agree with you? Perhaps because the living don't. It wasn't the release of Palestinians including Sinwar that resulted in Oct 7 but the actions of Israel against the Palestinians between the period of their release and Oct 7.
If Israel embraced the opportunities for peace as the South African rulers reluctantly did at the end of apartheid, Hamas which survived on funding arranged by the Israeli government, Netanyahu in particular, would not have had the support and means to attack as it did on Oct 7.
The Hannibal directive exists because Israel like Trump, see's POWs as a liability.
34
BenGvirisanobstacletopeace
06:38 11.07.2024
So the government killed its own civilians. What are they going to find out later, that they knew about Oct 7th far in advance and they let Hamas slaughter citizens, too? How does one live in a country where you know your own government will kill you. So much for Mr Security. This government is an obstacle to peace.
33
shmata-hari
02:16 10.07.2024
Max Blumenthal long ago had the scoop on this report but was, once again, slandered by Haaretz. Israel's hasbarah battle to preserve by deception and lies, the belief in an unnatural and inhumane state of existence is completely lost. The only people who cannot see this reality are the Israelis themselves. It took 400 years for the Catholic Church to finally apologize to Gallileo. I doubt if HaAretz has the journalistic integrity to apologize to Max Blumenthal but no matter, "Eppur si muove."
Reply to comment
You mean the guy paid by Putin and Iran?
10:11 10.07.2024shmata-hari
You mean the guy who defends Putin's invasion of Ukraine? You mean the guy who denies Assad targets his own people with chemical weapons? You mean the guy who denies the Chinese government is interning Uyghurs in concentration camps? You mean the guy who is actually a paid contributor for Russian state TV (who appears regularly on RT and Sputnik)?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/06/02/grayzone-russia-iran-support/ https://newpol.org/inside-look-how-prorussia-trolls-got-splc-censor-commie/ https://prospect.org/article/strange-sympathy-far-left-putin https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/10/16/why-assad-and-russia-target-the-white-helmets/ https://web.archive.org/web/20190930103316/https://brandeiscenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/marquardt-Bigman_research_paper.pdf https://newpol.org/on-gutter-journalism-and-purported-anti-imperialism/ https://www.commentary.org/articles/bruce-bawer/useful-idiot19/shmata-hari to guy paid by the "Mighty Wurlitzer"
16:01 12.07.2024shmata-hari
Not a single sentence in your ad hominem reply relates to anything in this very belated IDF report by Haaretz. Your lengthy slander - RT, Sputnik, Assad, Putin - is nonsensical hasbarah meant to shut down legitimate inquiry. Everyone with eyeballs can see that Pessi Cohen's home (above) could NOT have been destroyed by Hamas' rifles. The burned-up Festival cars also prove IDF's responsibility but were quickly buried or destroyed by the government, afraid you will see (if you have eyeballs) how helicopter gunfire and Israeli tanks were obviously responsible for so much death on the 7th.
Slander is spoken, in print it's libel
19:05 12.07.2024shmata-hari
And it's neither if it's true. Click any one of the several links provided at the bottom and you'll see the well-documented evidence that Max Blumenthal is a paid shill for whitewashing totalitarian regimes. Or you could just, you know, Google it.
And it's hardly ad hominem, since merely stating the indisputable fact that Blumenthal is a paid Russian propagandist is very much on topic. The fact that you're acting so offended is more or less proof positive that you're also either a Russian or Iranian troll.
32
To my fellow basement dwellers
04:10 09.07.2024
It seems that our comments can sometimes display the remarkable property of disappearing and then reappearing some time later, after we have tenaciously reposted them each time they have been removed.
Please bear this mind should you encounter the same message repeated several times below. Such annoying repetition was not the intention of the hapless author of the comment in question.
Reply to comment
No, the intention was to spam misinformation
09:53 09.07.2024To my fellow basement dwellers
Repeatedly and bury any factchecking in an avalanche of bulls***.
Otherwise you wouldn't have insisted on reposting the same exact thing verbatim several times, writing it once and copying and pasting the text again and again so it would appear at the top of the comments and push anything else further down the page.
31
Robin Kash
17:18 08.07.2024
I believe The Greyzone (Max Blumenthal) in the US reported this months ago.
Reply to comment
You mean the guy paid by Putin and Iran?
08:56 09.07.2024Robin Kash
You had my comment deleted because it was inconvenient to be exposed for being a paid Russian troll, and having been for years, but here it is again, with even more proof:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/06/02/grayzone-russia-iran-support/
https://newpol.org/inside-look-how-prorussia-trolls-got-splc-censor-commie/
https://prospect.org/article/strange-sympathy-far-left-putin
https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/10/16/why-assad-and-russia-target-the-white-helmets/
https://web.archive.org/web/20190930103316/https://brandeiscenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/marquardt-Bigman_research_paper.pdf
https://newpol.org/on-gutter-journalism-and-purported-anti-imperialism/
https://www.commentary.org/articles/bruce-bawer/useful-idiot19/
This is the second time you've deleted my comment
13:17 10.07.2024Robin Kash
But just to eliminate any doubt: You mean the guy who defends Putin's invasion of Ukraine? You mean the guy who denies Assad targets his own people with chemical weapons? You mean the guy who denies the Chinese government is interning Uyghurs in concentration camps? You mean the guy who is actually a paid contributor for Russian state TV (who appears regularly on RT and Sputnik)? https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/06/02/grayzone-russia-iran-support/ https://newpol.org/inside-look-how-prorussia-trolls-got-splc-censor-commie/ https://prospect.org/article/strange-sympathy-far-left-putin https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/10/16/why-assad-and-russia-target-the-white-helmets/ https://web.archive.org/web/20190930103316/https://brandeiscenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/marquardt-Bigman_research_paper.pdf https://newpol.org/on-gutter-journalism-and-purported-anti-imperialism/ https://www.commentary.org/articles/bruce-bawer/useful-idiot19/
30
Lots of Comments get deleted
15:54 08.07.2024
Haartetz needs a new comment section. Any comment with more likes than dislikes cannot be removed as a start.
Reply to comment
This is not Reddit, despite how you treat it
16:49 08.07.2024Lots of Comments get deleted
And they have a responsibility to remove blatant misinformation, manipulative trolling, and conspiracy theories, which makes up ~90% of all comments on this site for the last several months, almost all of which have been left up.
Furthermore, the "likes" and "dislikes" on this site are utterly meaningless since anyone can just refresh the page and click the button infinitely.
Robin Kash
17:25 08.07.2024Lots of Comments get deleted
Infinite reclicking of the LIKE button is an IT fail.
You are admitting that Haaretz's management of internally disliked posts is in the toilet, too? Who in the Israeli government is tasked with, um, assisting you? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Most of what you think is misinformation is
17:30 08.07.2024Lots of Comments get deleted
true .. for example... we been saying most of the civilians killed on the 7th was by Israeli fire... that will turn out to be TRUE
@Robin Kash Like to know what?
18:25 08.07.2024Lots of Comments get deleted
What are you asking? Other than vaguely conspiratorial overtones, it's not at all clear what you're getting at.
TerryT
07:20 09.07.2024Lots of Comments get deleted"true .. for example... we been saying most of the civilians killed on the 7th was by Israeli fire... that will turn out to be TRUE"
Based on what evidence do you make this claim? I'm in full agreement that the IDF killed Israelis on Oct 7, the extent of this is still unknown beyond the dozen or so already confirmed. I feel this number will climb significantly upon thorough investigation but doubt that it will pass a majority. Hamas slaughtered hundreds at the Nova festival alone.
Dianelos Georgoudis
12:41 09.07.2024Lots of Comments get deleted
@TerryT: "Based on what evidence do you make this claim?"
I don't think there's sufficient evidence to make the claim that most civilians were killed by the IDF, but neither is there sufficient evidence to deny it. I agree that historical analysis will show a significantly lower proportion of civilians killed by Hamas, and my reasoning is that Hamas has attacked several Israeli military bases at considerable risk to its fighters. If Hamas' main goal was to kill Israeli civilians, they wouldn't have done that.
Some of the civilian cars driven into Gaza and destroyed by the IDF as per the Hannibal Directive were carrying civilian hostages. But taking civilians hostage is a war crime, and in this sense Hamas is co-responsible for the civilians killed by the IDF.
Whichever way you look at it, it's a bloody tragedy. Especially when there is a political solution that guarantees a true Jewish and a Palestinian state where every Jew and every Palestinian can live from the river to the sea.
But technically, Hamas has the right
18:11 09.07.2024Lots of Comments get deleted
to resist because Israel is the occupier. International law is clear on this.
No it doesn't, you are not a lawyer
18:41 09.07.2024Lots of Comments get deleted
And even if it does, dousing people in gasoline and burning them alive or hacking their head off with a blunt garden hoe while shouting "allahu akbar" is not "resistance."
TerryT
20:18 09.07.2024Lots of Comments get deleted
@Dianelos
There is overwhelming evidence in respect of the Festival massacre at least, which was the single largest site of casualties, that these casualties were caused by the attackers not the defenders. Even the cars in the car parks that were destroyed, though in many cases burnt out, did not bare the signature of aerial attack, unlike the vehicles nearer to the border that do. The vehicles at the location were hit with vertical weapons (RPGs) and rifle fire, where as the vehicles near the border were hit by missiles.
The simultaneous attack on military bases was an obvious tactic to prevent an organized response, which worked for an inordinate period if time but if you understand anything about Sinwar, for him all targets are legitimate and the attacks on the military bases were strategic not indicative.
I'm not the one claiming that
20:30 09.07.2024Lots of Comments get deleted
Palestinians have the right to defend themselves, experts of international law are. If you don't want to be victims of the resistance then don't oppress. Very simple
Again, no, they aren't
10:08 10.07.2024Lots of Comments get deleted
No "expert" on planet earth has ever said that anyone has the right to pile up tires in a family's living room and set them on fire in order to either smoke them out and shoot them like ducks at a carnival or else burn them alive. No expert on planet earth claims anyone has the right to repeatedly hack at civilians' necks with a blunt garden hoe while screaming "allahu akbar." No expert on planet earth claims anyone has the right to dress up as cops and pull people over to the side of the road, then shot them in the head and stole their cars.
You are not a lawyer, you're just a liar.
29
Does not know whether ...?
12:48 08.07.2024
Given the clear implications of these findings, the substance of which was presented months ago by The Grayzone and Electronic Intifada, Haaretz' disclaimer to the effect that it "does not know whether (...) civilians and soldiers were hit due to these procedures" seems somewhat, though understandably, timorous.
On the other hand, if knowledge regarding this particular were to depend on the results of "investigations" conducted by the IDF, we could be quite certain that next to nothing would come to light.
Fortunately, this is not the case.
28
John Cronin
12:21 08.07.2024
' ' IDF Ordered Hannibal Directive on October 7 to Prevent Hamas Taking Soldiers Captive '
Perhaps the regional equivalent of a Hannibal Directive might be just what the entire situation has needed for generations past and present.
Its purpose would be to ostensibly fulfil or frustrate the short and longterm aims and ambitions of all those on either side, most of whom have been held hostage by their total inability to prevail over circumstances left for far too long without any discernible end to them in sight.
Laxiankey - " The old order changeth and giveth way to the new. " ( Morte d'Arthur )
27
Why has Haaretz removed this comment twice?
11:07 08.07.2024Does not know whether ...?
Given the clear implications of these findings, the substance of which was presented months ago by The Grayzone and Electronic Intifada, Haaretz' disclaimer to the effect that it "does not know whether (...) civilians and soldiers were hit due to these procedures" seems somewhat, though understandably, timorous.
On the other hand, if knowledge regarding this particular were to depend on the results of "investigations" conducted by the IDF, we could be quite certain that next to nothing would come to light.
Fortunately, this is not the case.
Reply to comment
Why has Haaretz removed this comment twice? 2
11:15 08.07.2024Why has Haaretz removed this comment twice?
The above comment, which has been removed twice, is very similar to the comment below, by Dianelos Georgoudis, which states: "It is known that a number of Israeli civilians were killed by the IDF on October 7. The question is how many. The Netanyahu government knows the answer but is not saying. History will find out".
The only difference between the comment removed twice and this last comment, which has not been removed, is that the latter refers to the Netanyahu government rather than to the IDF. Is this the problem? Are we not to question the IDF?
TerryT
11:28 08.07.2024Why has Haaretz removed this comment twice?
As have my comments been removed. I don't think it's Haaretz thats removing the comments, instead it appears to be an automated response to reporting of comments by those uncomfortable with what's been written. There are some people that come here who believe Israels actions are beyond questioning.
To TerryT
11:32 08.07.2024Why has Haaretz removed this comment twice?
Thank you.
Dianelos Georgoudis
12:10 09.07.2024Why has Haaretz removed this comment twice?
My understanding is that the political leadership controls the IDF, so the ultimate responsibility for the IDF's actions on 7 October and later lies with the Netanyahu government.
To Dianelos Georgoudis
13:16 09.07.2024Why has Haaretz removed this comment twice?
What you say would accord with political theory, but it might be somewhat of an oversimplification to say that "the political leadership controls the IDF". According to the commonplace, Israel is an army with a state, rather than a state with an army.
There have been documented cases in which the army leadership has lied to cabinet with regard to the conduction of whatever war was taking place at that time.
"In the case of Israel during the 1950s, lying became so normalized as to form a pattern, and lies were used to placate not just the overseas audience, but also the Israeli population. It really started biting when members of the cabinet started lying to one another, and army commanders lied to ministers and to one another. A web of lies replaced normal discourse, which became polluted by half-truths, outright lies, and preposterous inventions". (An Army Like No Other: How the Israel Defense Force Made a Nation, by Haim Bresheeth-Zabner; emphasis added)
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