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EDIT: this keynote has been cancelled. See the new announcement: https://post.lurk.org/@lgm/114465764697403829
Original Post:
Keynote Announcement: Dr. Richard Stallman
https://libregraphicsmeeting.org/2025/news/2025-05-06_0002-keynote-announcement-richard-stallman
On Wednesday, May 28th at 19:30, Dr. Richard Stallman will deliver a keynote on Free/Libre Software and Freedom in the Digital Society at Libre Graphics Meeting.
See the details in the linked announcement regarding admission to the talk.
I also included a personal note on the decision, as I received mixed feedback.
--Lasse
@lgm What a weird choice of keynote speaker in 2025.
@petrichor @lgm truly!!!
@lgm "After reviewing the complaints and the defense, I concluded that the concerns lacked substantive weight."
This is what enables abuse. If you read https://stallman-report.org/ and still think that, you are abetting abuse.
"There have been attacks against him" - Lasse
So; when you come into a conversation, and this is your framing. You've already pre-decided the outcome and are working backwards to justify it.
I condemn in the strongest the invitation to, and elevation of, someone known to be a danger at physical events, who is unrepentant and who rejected every effort to be helped to find a way back.
LGM is harmed by this action.
@federicomena@mstdn.mx @lgm@post.lurk.org If you read that "report" and got to the conclusion RMS is an evil person, you didn't do any research into its references. I would highly suggest you do, and also to read up on the texts posted by those in defense of RMS.
Only accepting one side and condemning anyone who dares to reach a different conclusion simply makes you a tool of abusers, if anything. Its ironic, yet very sad and dangerous, that those who consider themselves the empathic and tolerant side have no empathy for other views or tolerance for disagreement.
@lgm @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo
I’m following this discussion.
Can you explain to me where https://stallmansupport.org is so wrong. Is it completely wrong or just partially? And vice versa, is the “report” completely right?
I also had the impression the “report” was written in a manipulative language and publishing it anonymously doesn’t support it either.
I’d be interested in a discussion that is not so emotionally loaded, and I’m open to arguments. I see and get to feel that you are upset.
@graphicore @lgm @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo More practically and usefully: Why put yourself in the situation of “picking a side” on a clearly controversial issue, where multiple orgs have seen enough to officially cut ties, when there are surely many other people who could enjoy a spotlight and benefit the actual topic - without the risk? Why choose to do this? Pragmatically, does the move make sense?
@mattwilcox @lgm @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo Matt, right. I put the LGM and myself in a bad spot. I did not know or expect that there’s so much explosive hatred in this debate. Especially since it’s a) been a while and b) the “support” page was released later and makes a good argument in my view.
Right now I’m trying to understand the motivations and I’m looking for actual attempts of communication. Thanks for the offer.
@graphicore @mattwilcox @lgm @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo this isn't "explosive hate" this is reasonable people pushing back on someone who is (1) repugnant and (2) irrelevant.
The fact that you think that "its been a while" so that makes thing better is very concerning. If you have to "think" to "understand the motivations" then that is also troubling.
@paperdigits @graphicore @mattwilcox @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo the it’s “been a while” comes from my reading of the “report”being manipulative and I thought that people would change their views when the emotions of reading it had worn off and being presented with reasonable, different interpretations.
Why would “reasonable people [be] pushing back on someone who is […] 2) irrelevant”?
I don’t know where you took the “think” from. It’s that kind of quotation style that makes the “report” manipulative. I may have used “think” somewhere else though and I’d rather “think to understand” than e.g. “eat to understand”.
@graphicore @mattwilcox @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo but people, by your own account, had already pushed back on this on the mailing list, but you disregarded them and went forward with it. Now you're getting the same reaction here. Your assumption that people were just emotional is wrong, clearly.
1/n
@graphicore @mattwilcox @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo All that aside (if that's possible) why would people want to listen to someone say some permutation of the same thing he's said thousands of other times.
Can he even view a computer graphic on a computer he owns?
What could he possibly have to say that would be of value to this group of people that is fresh and insightful?
2/n
@graphicore @mattwilcox @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo I'd assume that you "trying to understand the motivations" would require some "thinking"
@paperdigits @mattwilcox @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo nobody is forced to attend the talk. This discussion is on another level.
@paperdigits @mattwilcox @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo I’ve had mixed feedback. Not a lot. Not that emotional. Not everyone gave negative feedback.
The style of discussion here clearly makes it uncomfortable to support me, even at least with an actual attempt of communication, in the public to others. To me the RMS-opposition creates a toxic environment—and they tell me I’m enabling bad behavior. Including “leaders” calling me outright an “idiot”.
@graphicore @mattwilcox @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo that's interesting because to everyone else here, platforming RMS makes it a toxic environment.
" they tell me I’m enabling bad behavior" -- why do you think that is?
@paperdigits @mattwilcox @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo I understand where it’s coming from. But it’s fighting fire with fire. It’s not coming from a good attitude, reasoning would be better. And reading any Code of Conduct from the communities involved in this, I was honestly surprised being treated that way.
@graphicore you are not LGM and LGM is not you. People saying "ew RMS, I won't go to that" is not directed at you personally.
@paperdigits @mattwilcox @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo thanks for the debate. I need some sleep now. I will join again.
@graphicore @paperdigits @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo “Reasoning” … As though that hasn’t already been gone through over the years.
As a generality; if we get newly involved in a topic that has its own Wikipedia section, multiple websites devoted to it, and a long history including companies alienating themselves over it: there is well explored depth there; to which any newcomer is not going to add anything unique.
@graphicore @paperdigits @mattwilcox @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo RMS himself is toxic. I can say after having met him.
@f4grx @graphicore @paperdigits @mattwilcox @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo I’ll second that. I had the displeasure of meeting him in person in Denmark a few decades ago. If I recall correctly the issue of inviting him again never came up for the events that followed.
@graphicore @paperdigits @mattwilcox @halla @federicomena @doctormo
Fwiw, I also thought the report was troubling in how it was constructed and some of the conclusions seemed to lack evidence.
However, even if one disregards that particular document, many of the issues it raises have been also documented elsewhere. Stallman has a history of making women feel unwelcome. That by itself should be enough not to invite him to speak.
As you know, there is still a gender gap in FLOSS participation. I don't participate in events that perpetuate that.
The reason I commented is because I have been to an LGM and presented work there. Its a great disappointment that an event I like that had such nice people and good presentations has made this choice.
I would like to go to another LGM, but I only go to events that are on the side of gender equality and that make real efforts to represent the diversity of FLOSS user bases. I'm a white bloke, but if I only see people who look like me, I'm out.
I do hope that you reconsider and approach some women-in-Foss groups for help in how to rebuild trust. LGM does need that help now. While this moment is painful and I wish it hadn't happened, it is also an opportunity for growth.
@graphicore @paperdigits @mattwilcox @halla @federicomena @doctormo
I'm glad to see that this keynote has been cancelled. Please do also reach out to women in FLOSS groups for advice on how to avoid finding the organisation on a similar position in future and for trust rebuilding. I'm afraid that cancelling by itself is not going to be enough, but is a good first step.
@paperdigits @graphicore @mattwilcox @lgm @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo This is absolutely explosive hate with very poor justification. I read through all of the original materials and most of the things that Richard has posted as well as all the things that I could find critical of him. I find it to be a barrel full of smoke.
@wbpeckham @paperdigits @graphicore @lgm @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo It’s a good job we’re all entitled to our own opinions, and it’s ok to think different things. The take-away isn’t who’s right and who’s wrong though.
It’s that getting involved in topics with multiple years of history, multiple involved parties, and multi-company and multi-person ramifications is at best unwise.
@mattwilcox @paperdigits @graphicore @lgm @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo I disagree. I don't care how much emotion there is about an issue or how long it is existed, I truly believe that it is important to be on the right side. Censorship is almost never the right side. I have found many of the things said about Richard offensive, but in looking carefully at what Richard has said, I don't find any of it offensive.
@wbpeckham @paperdigits @graphicore @lgm @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo We all want to feel we are on the right side of things. No one argues to be on the wrong side of something. There comes a point though where it is sensible to ask yourself: how much damage is the argument causing vs the original issue. Is it worth it to yourself. Does further argument achieve anything beyond arguing.
@wbpeckham @paperdigits @graphicore @lgm @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo Also worth pointing out; you may not find things offensive. That is your personal reaction; you’re allowed it. Others do; and that is theirs, and they are allowed it. (1/2)
There is no such thing as “correct” feelings about other people’s behaviour. It’s ok to disagree. And, importantly, no-one involved has or should try to force anyone else to do or think anything else than what they do.
The fact is, some people said “go ahead, and we will not come”. That’s fine. That’s not a threat. That’s a statement. That’s people making choices for themselves. (2/2)
@wbpeckham sorry, but this isn't just "emotion" from one side, nor is *not* inviting someone to give a keynote a form of censorship.
If you really want to be on the right side of things, I'd suggest trying to look at the issues from points of view other than your own. Ask yourself, "Why might this make someone else who is different from me feel unwelcome or uncomfortable?"
@paperdigits @mattwilcox I already did that and I can see why some people might be made uncomfortable but that's not an excuse for censorship and I don't see that the reason for being uncomfortable is adequate or convincing. It's absolutely valid to feel uncomfortable. It's not right to let your discomfort alone control other people's access or opportunities. I'm six foot, two retired military, and some people find me intimidating. I try not to be. But I don't change my travel plans or decisions about what to do or where to do it based on their discomfort. Neither would you.
@wbpeckham again, this is not a case of censorship. Not getting an opportunity is not the same as censorship. And other peoples' discomfort doesn't need to be validated by you, its completely irrelevant if you find others' discomfort "convincing" or not.
The discomfort that arises from RMS has nothing to do with his physical stature, so I don't think your analogy is a good one.
Lastly I'd thank you not to project what I would or wouldn't do.
@graphicore The cancel campaign worked. May your brave decision undo some of the damage, and unmask the real perpetrator.
@LucKeyProductions @graphicore why are you so obsessively going around posting a link to a site that only RMS defenders find credible, in defense of a decision to have him speak at an event where he has little relevant subject matter knowledge?
(there are also plenty people tied up in false beliefs about the victims, induced by violence; whether they're mere victims of falsehoods or accomplices to the campaign of violence hinges on how they respond when called out for the violence they're participating in)
CC: @graphicore@post.lurk.org @lgm@post.lurk.org @halla@kde.social @celesteh@lgbt.io @federicomena@mstdn.mx @doctormo@floss.social
@KaiserKitty@clubcyberia.co @mattwilcox@mstdn.social @graphicore@post.lurk.org @lgm@post.lurk.org @halla@kde.social @celesteh@lgbt.io @federicomena@mstdn.mx @doctormo@floss.social "Pragmatism" is most often used as an excuse to be a terrible person. In almost any case it can be substituted for intellectual laziness.
@mattwilcox@mstdn.social @graphicore@post.lurk.org @lgm@post.lurk.org @halla@kde.social @celesteh@lgbt.io @federicomena@mstdn.mx @doctormo@floss.social
While you consider it practical and useful to never question an angry mob hellbent on destroying lives of others, it is not very humane. A decent human being will generally not just condemn people for any unproven, unsubstantiated claim.
Just because a topic is controversial, doesn't mean you should just accept the status quo. On the contrary, because it is controversial you should engage with it. This is perhaps the best way to grow your personal mind as a human being, for it forces you to really think about hard topics and build your own opinion.
Foregoing individual thought makes you nothing more than an obedient fool.
@tyil @graphicore @lgm @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo Oh I agree with you. But persuading others to change viewpoints isn’t achieved through only one method, and to me it seemed unlikely head on challenges were going to work here. So; I took the other tactic. If people can be persuaded to change their choices for personal impact reasons, it’s a start that may soften them to consider the _actual_ reasons.
@tyil @graphicore @lgm @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo Or to put it another way; arguing people into other viewpoints isn’t a one step process. Often by arguing you just reinforce their position if they’re emotionally attached to it. So, you have to find a way to achieve the practical thing first (end an undesirable action) and then work on persuading them to your side. Not try pounding a nail harder.
@mattwilcox@mstdn.social @graphicore@post.lurk.org @lgm@post.lurk.org @halla@kde.social @celesteh@lgbt.io @federicomena@mstdn.mx @doctormo@floss.social The real question is why they're emotionally attached to the destruction of the lives of others. Once you realize their one desire is to completely and utterly eradicate people who disagree, you will see that pragmatism is not going to be a desirable outcome in the long run.
Inviting the objectively greatest force for free software to an event that has "libre" in the name cannot possibly be an "offensive" take. Without RMS, LGM would not even have existed in the first place. The people who want to cancel him cannot be reasoned with, and you should never ever cave into the demands of psychopaths like them.
I don't argue we need to convince those people of anything, I'm arguing you shouldn't let them convince you of anything. Don't listen to their hateful and unjustified criticism. Don't cave in to their sick demands. Ignore them if you must, but fight them if you can. The future of free software and to a large extent the free societies we live in depends on it.
@graphicore The Stallman "report" website can be traced back to Drew DeVault.
@graphicore @lgm @halla @celesteh @federicomena @doctormo I don't see half of the discussion, so keep in mind I'm only responding to this specific post.
It's difficult to have a reasonable, deep, unheated and productive discussion here since so many servers - like mine - has very short character limits on toots. And both the report and the support website are quite long, so mentioning and explaining every argument and kontrargument would take quite a while.