This is my first diary here. I was perfectly happy commenting on other diaries and I didn't feel the need to diary because I never had anything to say past "Right on" to all of the wonderful entries here. But I have to say something.
The thread on the front page about the study linking Bush supporters to the mentally ill is offensive and was really difficult for me to read through. Even IF the study is accurate (and with a sampling of only 69 people I doubt it) the comments from the people in the thread making fun of people suffering from mental illness were uncalled for and hurtful.
I thought we as progressives stood for HELPING the less fortunate, regardless of whether or not they share our agenda. Now we have people SERIOUSLY questioning whether or not the mentally ill should have the right to vote? WTH? How is that any different than asking the same question about gay people or even black people? Shouldn't EVERYONE have the right to vote? I thought the only people who were into voter suppression were supposedly the Republicans.
Let me tell you something about myself. I suffer from schizo-effective disorder, Asperger's syndrome and obsessive compulsive disorder. I spent four years in a State hospital and it was hellish beyond belief. There is nothing to do there and you are surrounded by scary people and uncaring staff and virtually no access to any information outside of the main-stream media. Yeah, there WERE quite a few people there who I have no doubt would LOVE Bush, but being misinformed is different from being mentally ill.
I used to be somewhat conservative in my youth but after I got out of the hospital and had access to a support system and people who actually cared about me, I decided I wanted to learn more about stuff and one of the things I became interested in was politics. You'd be surprised what conclusions a person who is mentally ill is able to reach when they finally have access to REAL information coming from people who actually want to help other people's suffering.
We ARE progressives. We SHOULD want to help ease the suffering of others whether it's from poverty, injustice or mental illness. We shouldn't be writing off and making fun of people less fortunate than ourselves much less questioning whether or not they should be able to vote. That's supposedly what the right does. But I'm starting to think ANYBODY is capable of that, regardless of their political affiliation. We keep saying that we have to watch out for Authoritarians and people who get into that mindset but somehow I think people who decide that it's okay to make fun of the mentally ill because they supposedly don't vote for who we want are closer to that mindset than they realize. That's bullcrap, and just proves that that kind of thinking can find it's way into ANY group of like minded people.
I'm sorry there's no links to news articles and stuff in this diary but I just said what I feel needed to be said. If we help the mentally ill, perhaps they won't be in such dire straights that they actually believe someone like Bush is the only person capable of protecting them. If we write them off, how can we prove that mindset is wrong? We, as progressives should want to help EVERYBODY even if they supposedly won't vote for us. Helping only people who support us is playing politics and is wrong. We should want to make the world a better, fairer, and safer place because it is the right thing to do, and not because it will win us elections. We keep saying that Republicans are only interested in power regardless of the cost of human suffering but if we are only interested in helping the less fortunate who vote for us, how does that make us any different?
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The mentally ill need our help. We should help them because we want to help ALL people who are suffering.
Hope you're doing well.
there is a diary on this topic on the rec list. You have a lot to say on the topic. But maybe at this time you would get more bang for your buck if you added this as a comment to Mary Julia's effort.
I could be wrong and you will get a lot of comments...just realize that if not, it is because people are discussing this elsewhere.
This is my first and I don't really know the etiquette about this sort of thing.
People need to understand that they can hurt people with their words. We all have to think before we type.
It's a good diary.
I think it's different enough from Mary Julia's to not be deleted. Her's was angry (and rightfully so). I don't tend to get angry very often. It's something my therapist says I need to work on.
so it was worth keeping it posted.
While other people are quite correct in pointing out that statistically significant information can indeed be pulled from a small study of 69 people, I think you did stumble over a very good point.
It matters what kind of mental illness people have.
When you explained yourself, a few things became very clear to me--because Aspergers (and schizo-affective disorder) are very different kind of beasts than paranoia.
Immediately I know a few things about you that make you less likely than the many to prefer the conservative/authoritarian mindset.
- You are bright.
- You are logical.
- And you probably trust logic rather than emotion to lead you correctly.
Given sufficient trustworthy information--you will choose reality every time.
I'm not an expert on mental illness, but it would be interesting to know what types of mental illnesses the 69 had. I suspect that further research is warrented.
We keep saying that we have to watch out for Authoritarians and people who get into that mindset but somehow I think people who decide that it's okay to make fun of the mentally ill because they supposedly don't vote for who we want are closer to that mindset than they realize.
Nicely nailed! To borrow an idea from Jung: only by knowing and accepting our Shadow can we become free of it's domination. You just pointed a laser at a few Kossak shadows.
I hope that the people involved are sufficiently blessed to see themselves differently--and to make personal changes.
Because of my Asperger's I'm very eager to please and I'm always afraid I've offended someone. I use logic to determine my beliefs but emotions often get the best of me.
Nicely nailed! To borrow an idea from Jung: only by knowing and accepting our Shadow can we become free of it's domination. You just pointed a laser at a few Kossak shadows.
I think everybody does it to an extent including me. It's one of the uglier aspects of human nature. We just need to be aware of it so it doesn't take over our beliefs.
I think you can indeed get angry. But it manifests differently for you than for many other people.
With most people, I'd want to tamp down their expression of their anger. I often point out that anger is energy; it can destroy, or it can fuel change. I think you were angry here, but rather than explode, you lit a small flame and shone light on a problem.
Also (and most helpfully!) you did NOT trigger explosive reactions from other people.
IMO, your post was a very appropriate (and nicely modulated) response to your own feelings of anger.
I never thought of it like that. I think I get sick and scared a lot but I must respond to anger differently.
You may find them helpful--either for yourself, or as an aid to explaining yourself to others.
As a gifted ADDult myself, I'd suggest that it is very important to learn to understand yourself--and then to accept the way you are. Don't worry about changing your self--but do consider whether it is important to change the style of your interaction with other people. Let your goal be to interact more smoothly with other people and not cause pain. Not to "feel" something!
But don't try to "fix" yourself. You aren't broken; you're just different. Some emotional patterns don't work for you the way they do for others; but so what! You are neither more nor less worthwhile than any other human out there--just the way you are.
BTW, re "feeling".... Nearly 40 years ago, I seriously wondered if I was capable of feeling love. I had feelings for a young man, but they weren't at all like those I read about in books.
We married a few years later, and eventually raised 3 kids. Now we're grandparents. I've decided that whatever I was feeling, it was probably a better foundation for a future that the stuff in the books!
Don't ever trust your shrink more than you trust yourself. Challenge both. Then decide.
Good advice! I'll look into that book!
People tend to be rather insensitive towards the mentally ill. When I first saw the diary, I was worried it was going to be bad snark. Thank you for talking about a topic very few of us understand.
It's a big problem. And it's not one of these issues that we as a community give a lot of thought. I hope this changes. But you should not attack the study just because they found results you didn't like. It is definitely possible to find a statistically significant result with just 69 participants. I didn't read what the comments said in that diary. But I agree that we much too easily make fun of the mentally ill. Mental illness isn't a funny thing to those who suffer and to those who have a loved one suffering. Obviously anyone who says that the sufferers of mental illness don't deserve the right to vote are taking a page out of the authoritarian right's playbook.
There were quite a few references to wackos and psychos. Even though these were evidently aimed at political opponents, not people with mental illness, there was kind of a "while we're on the subject" attitude that offended me.
that was offensive to me. It was - as someone else said on Mary Janes diary on Hunters offending diary - like reading comments on free republic.
I don't think of most mentally ill people AS
UNFORTUNATE.
You said:
I thought we as progressives stood for HELPING the less fortunate,
And those who are offended by this diary need to think about that. Do YOU think of mentally ill folks as unfortunate? I don't. I think we all have challenges in life. Some folks need meds for hyperactivity. Some folks need meds and assistance cause they are bipolar. I am thinking of two great and productive people I work with. They are the best, and they make great contributions to my work team.
This is my challenge to those who are offended by the FP diary:
People who think bush love is helpful.... need to be categorized. Oh yeah.... someone has to be NUTS if they think georgie is their friend and savior. But what is nuts? How can we DEFINE this particular crowd? We need to. Cause they aren't like US!
in highschool and it was very rewarding. Probably the most fun I've had while "working".
The onset of mental illness is ususally in the later teenage years and mentally ill people are rarely in Special Ed.
that's a good point.
People aren't crazy just because they voted for Bush. That's a self-serving way to think about mental illness. And I do think the mentally ill are less fortunate. Is it not unfortunate to be born to abusive parents, and to develop a mental illness because of the abuse?
There has never been a single second of my life that I've been glad I'm mentally ill.
I've been hospitalized for it, I attended a Clinton White House reception, IN MY (and others') HONOR, as an 'American Craftsman'.(Link)
There's a reason for the fact that mental illness is still a factor in the human species: we are possessed of creativity and insight: features necessary to survival of the species. Your average authoritarian wingnut follower is dead weight. Your average Democrat is a fine fellow, but may not be possessed of the kind of freaking flights of imagination that lead to scientific breakthroughs that enhance our existence upon planet earth...............
Give us a break. Your future may depend upon our weirdness. Just because YOUR mind is not f*%$ed-up doesn't mean that WE can't think up ways to enhance your lifestyle.
Psychotic
Negative symptoms are so named because they are considered to be the loss or absence of normal traits or abilities, and include features such as flat, blunted or constricted affect and emotion, poverty of speech and lack of motivation. Some models of schizophrenia include formal thought disorder and planning difficulties in a third group, a "disorganization syndrome".
Additionally, neurocognitive deficits may be present. These may take the form of reduced or impaired psychological functions such as memory, attention, problem-solving, executive function or social cognition.
WIKI
It is a common myth that people who are psychotic have extrodinary mental capabilities. The sad truth is that many good minds are virtually shut down by severe psychosis (positive symptoms) and negative symptoms (see above).
Bipolar
Bipolar disorder is found in disproportionate numbers in people with creative talent such as artists, musicians, authors, performers, poets, and scientists, and some credit the condition for their creativity.
WIKI Bipolar
This mental disorder is possibly the type you are referring to.
Since bipolar disorder IS a mental illness, and we get lumped in with schizophrenia and all the rest I'm sticking up for us. I didn't mean to imply that all mentally ill people are God's gift to humanity.
I think sociopaths like our current regime should be permanently institutionalized for the protection of the planet and its inhabitants. I don't think there's any way to cure Cheney and his ilk of the unitary executive syndrome.
not in the derogative manner in which we have called the mentally ill. But they are OFF in some way. what do we call them? That's what I am asking.
This guy at work.. nice christian man, about 58. NICE PERSON. He thinks bush is the 2nd coming... that bush is our savior... that bush and everything he has done is WONDERFUL for all the little people of the world. Do I call this guy just a greedy, corporate prick? Fred is NONE of that (he takes in foster kids...). What do I call Fred? Cause it can't be nice. No sirree. Fred is delusional. Totally delusional. And that is one form of mental illness. So what do I call him without offending a special and contributing group of my society? Ugh. there is no answer to this question. I realize this.
But where do I categorize Fred???? He won't get anything positive from me. He doesn't deserve it. But he is not a BAD, EVIL person.
I never think it's a good idea to call voters bad names. In specific cases though, people do seem delusional.
You have never known anyone struggling with schizophrenia. Trust me, "UNFORTUNATE" is an understatement.
If you want a challenge, go spend a day at a mental hospital and then come back and apologize to Matt.
I will not be apologizing to Matt.
I will say it.. cause I have seen various boards on the internet go through this: the mentally ill castigating everyone for the derogatory comments about the crazies amongst us.
Challenge: tell me, show me that 'mentally ill' is NOT an incredibly broad spectrum. If you can do that... then I will concede that those in my life who are mentally ill are unfortunate. Christ. When I say 'in my life', I will say that I do not visit wards where people are in straight jackets. I work with and have known many people with great challenges. And I do not feel sorry for them. They wouldn't want that.
Unless... ugh... I guess I could be wrong here... but... are ALL mentally ill people FEEBLE????? Cause I see them as worthy members of our society - the ones I see (not visiting the wards, of course). I also see other people in my life..in wheel chairs...or as little people.... or as disfigured. The only thing THEY want is respect. NOT PITY.
Christ.
Being unable to interact with the people around you (in the case of many psychotics) goes well beyond a "challenge." I have pity for schizophrenics because many of them are incurable, and it has been shown that schizophrenia is mostly an organic disease.
Unless... ugh... I guess I could be wrong here... but... are ALL mentally ill people FEEBLE????? Cause I see them as worthy members of our society - the ones I see (not visiting the wards, of course). I also see other people in my life..in wheel chairs...or as little people.... or as disfigured. The only thing THEY want is respect. NOT PITY.
Yes, you are wrong here.
In your feeble attempt to build strawmen and change the subject combined with your inability to look no further than "in my life", it's clear you lack the ability to hold a rational thought much less a coherent discussion.
No one asked for pity.
No one referred to the mentally ill as feeble except you.
I would suggest you look a little further than "your life" before you start pontificating on subjects you know nothing about.
PS Reading comprehension is not your strength.
hink
we were letting off a little steam and there was some excellent information posted in the comments along with a few well meaning jokes.
Mental illness is a very serious issue in America which is receiving very littel attention.
If you'd like to start a diary series on Mental Health issues I think you'll find we are here to help and not hurt.
Welcome to clambake!
there is a VERY fine line between what side of
the door you are on.
and he's said the same thing. Plus he had to come home to a bipolar wife, daughter (me), and son (who is also schizophrenic). At least, he said, when he came home he didn't have to worry about us throwing sh*t at him, at least once we were out of the diaper phase.
We all work for mental illness awareness, but it still is an uphill battle. It is not a "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" illness, nor are all people with mentally ill dangerous or feeble or living on the streets or unable to hold a job.
I'm glad to see this diary! The more attention the better.
of mental patients watching Bush on television. One group understood body language better than most of us, but could not process the words. The other group was very verbal but could not understand facial expressions. Both of them laughed uproariously at Bush.
... and I think you have a point. I didn't, at first. My first reaction was to accuse you of overreacting. Sorry.
This caught my eye -
“Our study shows that psychotic patients prefer an authoritative leader,” Lohse says. “If your world is very mixed up, there’s something very comforting about someone telling you, ‘This is how it’s going to be.’”
First of all, I think to use that train of thought in drawing a conclusion is logically flawed. Just because "psychotic patients" prefer authoritative leaders doesn't necessarily make them like Bush. For all I know, they just like their football coach.
Also, if "psychotic patients" took comfort in thinking "This is how it's going to be," and the President had their balls hooked up to electrodes, they still might not be inclined to vote for him. I can't blame them. I don't like mine hooked up to electrodes even if there's not a battery at the other end.
It's bullshit evidence that shows nothing about cause and effect. It supports no conclusion at all, other than a nefarious link between the mentally ill and President Bush.
In fact, it's not fair to link anyone with the President.
hink
Hi, I'm Snakes on a White House and I'm a person with Major Depression and Anxiety Disorder.
(Hi, Snakes on a White House!)
Anyway, I'm making a point here. My mental illness is under control thanks to meds (an old-fashioned Tricyclic) and talk therapy. I'm actually back in College finishing up my BA (Psych, natch) and will be going for my Masters in Social Work and my LCSW credential after that. I am old enough to remember a period of time when folks like me were considered basket cases. We are in a time when more people with mental illnesses are being helped. I look forward to the day no human being has to live without some sort of help, and that nobody is written off as "beyond hope."
Goddess-speed, Matt.
with schizoaffective disorder and I know what you are talking about. Thanks for writing this.
