Liz Fong-Jones vs. Kiwi Farms (Round 3) - "End Networked Harassment" Edition

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

Null is young.

Debatable.

 

[Vibe_Guy]

Debatable.

And average human lives to 80 due to modern medicine in 1st and 2nd world countries. Null is what? 30 something? That's middle aged but young.
40 something is when it's debatable imo. (subjective not objective opinion)

 

[The Lawgiver]

And average human lives to 80 due to modern medicine in 1st and 2nd world countries. Null is what? 30 something? That's middle aged but young.
40 something is when it's debatable imo. (subjective not objective opinion)

middle aged would be 45-50s, it's less based on averages and more tied to cultural/career stuff from what i remember.

 

[repentance]

@Null, I know this is most likely a non-starter, since the last thing you need is another giant fuckoff expense, but I'm just spitballing, so consider: Have you ever looked into hiring a PR firm?

Even if you managed to rehab KF's image in the eyes of the general public and the MSM, that's not going to address the problem of back channels being used to persuade service providers (and especially financial service providers) to deny Null and KF services - and that is far and away our biggest problem.

 

[krack]

Even if you managed to rehab KF's image in the eyes of the general public and the MSM, that's not going to address the problem of back channels being used to persuade service providers (and especially financial service providers) to deny Null and KF services - and that is far and away our biggest problem.

so, is the reason other "harassement" sites didnt get sued because they didnt get fucked by service providers?

 

[AnOminous]

From what I've observed (hah), he's a mid-level coder and a merely competent network engineer, rather than the 10X genius he portrays himself to be.

None of his posts about the Farms and its networks showed any particularly phenomenal depth of knowledge, and that's the subject he's most obsessed with in the world.

Also troon = no children or family conflicts. Same reason you see gay men go so far in corporate world.

Gays usually start out gay. Troons almost always opportunistically troon out in adulthood unless they're groomed by creeps like Elliot. I can think of numerous accomplished gay people.

Almost anyone with measurable accomplishments as troons achieved them before trooning out, and often actively self-destruct their pet projects after trooning out for psychotic, narcissistic reasons. Sort of like Elliot nuked his own career shitting himself in rage at his co-employees and later the Farms.

 

[pikachudidnothingwrong]

Even if you managed to rehab KF's image in the eyes of the general public and the MSM, that's not going to address the problem of back channels being used to persuade service providers (and especially financial service providers) to deny Null and KF services - and that is far and away our biggest problem.

This is why we need financial service neutrality laws in general. Imagine once the unthinking normies masses walk us into the elite's trap of digital money. No banking, transfers or CCs become a matter of life or death. But such laws are something we are even further away from since the libertardian republican types running the current admin gutted and pretty much shuttered the agency needed to enforce such a rule. And would likely appose any such rule, even as they are de-platformed and cut off themselves.

 

[teriyakiburns]

But such laws are something we are even further away from since the libertardian republican types running the current admin gutted and pretty much shuttered the agency needed to enforce such a rule.

Not true. The CFPB was a willing participant in debanking and spent a lot of time imposing regulations that ended up requiring banks to close down the accounts of politically inexpedient or undesirable clients. It duplicated the roles of other agencies and departments (the federal reserve, the office of the comptroller of currency, and FDIC, to name three) but did so in a more opaque and less intelligible way, with the obvious intent of centralising and obfuscating financial services regulatory activities. Its primary purpose appears to have been to make it easier for the state to coordinate its debanking efforts.

 

[pikachudidnothingwrong]

Not true. The CFPB was a willing participant in debanking and spent a lot of time imposing regulations that ended up requiring banks to close down the accounts of politically inexpedient or undesirable clients. It duplicated the roles of other agencies and departments (the federal reserve, the office of the comptroller of currency, and FDIC, to name three) but did so in a more opaque and less intelligible way, with the obvious intent of centralising and obfuscating financial services regulatory activities. Its primary purpose appears to have been to make it easier for the state to coordinate its debanking efforts.

I mean that i don't see them ever restaffing it again. Like so many other hings, they seem to be going after that libertardian republican wet dream of total shutdown... until the next admin of course.. Since they seem to be doing everything outside of new law and congress. hey won't be in a rush for this.. They salivate at other countries ability to do it officially and legally.

 

[smelly dumb journo scum]

I'm not saying faggify the site and make it fundamentally something else, but I am saying that having some spin-doctors in your corner to clear your name (or at least, do damage control) might make things easier.

KF is 100% being targeted but a good PR strategy could build awareness about the issue and compose KFs' narrative. People like stories way more than data points.

We need to reopen the debate. We need to present the argument to the MSM and their NPCs that a mundane internet-personalities gossip forum is not Hitler Clubhouse reincarnate.

What are the issues that you think an article about KF or argument in favor of KF would need to cover?

 

[Tismguide]

What are the issues that you think an article about KF or argument in favor of KF would need to cover?

Realistically it'll never happen, but it's a fair question. IMO, most of the problem is selective reporting of facts and biased framing, rather than the outright lies per se. One approach would be to address existing narratives (though that usually has the problem of drawing more attention to them, arguably KF has nothing to lose). For example, that the site has ToS that ban harassment, swatting, etc, and takes action against users/posts that violate that. This is no different than Facebook etc. Likewise, existing narratives conflate the site and its users and treat them all as a monolith, thus allowing for guilt by association. You want to reframe conflicts like with LFJ as a rich litigious tech bro desperately trying to hide his dirty laundry. It's really hard to call out double standards though, which is why they are so effective as a weapon when you dominate the media. Read some of the Scientology pages on Wikipedia etc for the general approach, because troons are really quite similar in how they operate. None of that is going to work, however, because they'll smear any journo who tries as harassers. It's necessary to go on the attack for this to work, which journos do all the time, but only against approved targets. That said, troons have lost a ton of power.

Another approach would be to avoid engaging with the facts and focus on a lot of generic positive press, trying to drown out the negative. This is what PR firms like the one(s) LFJ uses do. This lets you avoid the pitfalls of attacking to defend, because you don't even have to mention LFJ, you just selectively focus on all the good things from the forum, like putting animal abusers away, maybe the Schofields, etc. Even if the forum didn't directly do it, you can emphasize the cases where discussion of the topic was connected. You spend most of your words focusing on the story, the forum is more of a side note. This is being a deceptive disingenuous fuck and makes me feel sick, but PR firms love it so it seems to be effective in some cases. It's not going to work because you need to be able to get enough words out there to dilute their message, and again, they control most media. The idea is quantity over quality. The goal isn't to convince them the forum is completely good and wholesome; it is to get the message in front of the next person to receive a girl talk that the forum is controversial, rather than unanimously evil. Think about the lies LFJ got away with in Australian court, trying to pretend it was a rogue operation that could not be served in **any** country. I thought there were consequences for lying to judges but I guess not.

Finally, you could try to focus on the Kafke-esque nightmare that Josh has gone through. It's genuinely a fascinating story. The vast majority of people don't understand just how deep debanking etc goes, and you really want to emphasize all the vile things CF protects, but not this. "Where the Sidewalk Ends" was really interesting, and a lot has happened since then. I also like this because it might get views from relatively apolitical technical types, they used to be quite common in IT but are definitely dying off. If the tide continues to turn on troon-ism, this might become a viable approach, I'm fond of the saying that HRT did to nerd communities what crack did to black ones.

The reason to hire a PR firm is because different techniques make sense at different times/stages and depending on the audience you want to target. Realistically, I don't see any of this working now, as any attempt to do so would see a flurry of journosplaining that could even backfire. But more and more people are noticing after the Twitter leaks, the USAID revelations, and troons are continuing to lose power. If troon power is truly shattered, we might stand a chance. But I'm not holding my breath. It's frustrating because there are far worse places on the internet that don't have powerful enemies, but it's really hard to overcome the power of media lockdown and double standards.

 

[George Lucas]

Tl;dr: Kiwi Farms has won 0/4 cases.