I am sick and tired of this claim from Muslims. According to them, they say the European Jews came and stole land from the historically indigenous Palestinians and made Israel out of it.

According to Muslims. They say the Jews are illegal occupiers on stolen land and they need to give it back to the indigionous Palestinians…. Like usual from Islam. This claim is utter nonsense

Science.Org actually looked into the historical genetic origins of both the Israeli and Palestinian people in 2000 and this is what they found.

“As fighting continues in the Middle East, a new genetic study shows that many Arabs and Jews are closely related. More than 70% of Jewish men and half of the Arab men whose DNA was studied inherited their Y chromosomes from the same paternal ancestors who lived in the region within the last few thousand years.”

70% of Jews in Israel are genetic ancestors of people indigenous to that region. That means the other 30% will be the European Jews that Muslims complain incessantly non-stop about pretending they form the vast majority of Jews in Israel.

However, and this is the really interesting part, only 50% of Palestinians are genetically indigenous to the region. The other 50% will be from Saudi Arabian heritage when the Muslims came from there and conquered the nation and started raping and pillaging the place.

So we have 50% stolen invaders for the Palestinians. Versus for the Jews it is only 30%.

The Jews did not steal any land from the Palestinians. It is their land. It has always been their land. And the Genetics prove it. The invaders stealing lands are the Palestinians. They are not Palestinians. They are really Saudi Arabians living there in Gaza trying to steal land from Jews.

Remember those stats the next time someone says to you the Jews have no claim to this land and are invaders from Europe.

Since Hamas chose to start this war, 100% of the casualties are on Hamas.

Since Hamas chose to embed its military infrastructure within and underneath civilian population, 100% of the casualties are on Hamas.

Since Hamas begged for a ceasefire only to violate it without showing any sign for agreeing to another ceasefire, 100% of the casualties are on Hamas.

Since Hamas keeps firing into Israel, targeting civilians, 100% of the casualties are on Hamas.

Since Israel never targeted civilians, 100% of the casualties are on Hamas.

Or as said by the culprit himself:

Because Palestinians declared war on Israel by invading its territory and killing and kidnapping its citizens.

Top tip: if you don't want to be killed, then probably don't start a war.

And as I have to say whenever I write anything on this conflict, I am neither pro- nor anti- either Israel or Palestine; I'm equally indifferent to both sides.

But I do wonder what both the Palestinians and all these people marching in the streets think Israel should have done; called it quits?

This war (and its genesis) is perhaps the epitome of the vulgar colloquialism “Fuck around and find out.”

I really can't help but feel that this child wouldn't be dead if - wait for it - Hamas hadn't invaded Israel, killed a load of Israelis and kidnapped a load more. I mean honestly, what did they expect?

The English are the dominant ethnicity on the island of Great Britain by right of conquest. When the Romans left Britain in 410 CE, there was no effective military force left to guard the “Saxon Shore” against further incursions by Germanic peoples from the continent, so the people who became the English eventually absorbed or displaced the native Celts North towards Scotland, and West towards Wales and Cornwall. In 1066, William of Normandy beat the English at the Battle of Hastings, and made England his by this same right of conquest.

Some of us like to pretend that this right no longer exists, but the fact is that it does still apply: no one is going to take any meaningful action to liberate Tibet or Xinjiang from China, despite the fact that the original inhabitants of these lands are not ethnic Chinese, and China is continuing the process of settling these regions with Han Chinese people to the extent that their numbers are greater than those of the indigenous inhabitants. The “Free Tibet” crowd may as well be barking at the moon, and even the Dalai Lama has stated that there’s no turning back the clock.

Similarly, the “Free Palestine” crowd are pissing into the wind of history. Not only was the land that is now the state of Israel carved out under the British Mandate, legitimized by the League of Nations, and its successor, the United Nations, Israeli militias coerced hundreds of thousands of Arabs to flee their homes and land in order to ensure that Israel would be a state with a Jewish majority. Following thousands of years of persecution, which culminated in the Holocaust, one can understand the desire of many Jews to be in control of their own destiny, and not have to trust the Gentiles to keep them safe. Israel took this land, said it was now theirs, and it is still theirs, since they have forcefully resisted repeated attempts to take it back from them. The consequential nations of the earth also agree that the land is Israel’s, so resistance, as they say, is futile.

The Palestinians are just one of several displaced and stateless peoples, whose situation resulted form the breakdown of the Ottoman Empire; the Kurds never got their own state, the Armenians were both massacred and displaced from their traditional homeland in what is now Eastern Turkey, there was a population swap of ethnic Greeks and Turks from and to Greece, and the modern state of Turkey under the Treaty of Lausanne in 1923. The Zionist slogan of “A people without a land for a land without a people” is, at best, a half truth. There was never an independent Palestinian state, but there were certainly people, including Jews, living in the region of Palestine before the state of Israel was established; those who left have not been allowed to return.

Regarding Gaza and the West Bank, Israeli policy over the last two decades seems to have been designed to make life in these areas so unpleasant that it amounts to a coercive invitation for the Palestinian population to leave. The issue is that most of them either don’t want to, or lack the opportunity to find a better life elsewhere; neighboring Arab countries don’t want to take them in; they have enough troubles of their own, without taking in millions of traumatized and radicalized people.

Some will criticize my “Might makes right” view of the situation as amoral; it is; as the late Palestinian author and activist, Edward Said said of his people, “We are the victims of the victims”. However, it is kinder, in a sense, to be honest about the realities of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, as opposed to giving false hope to the descendants of the displaced Palestinians, and those who continue to live in Gaza and the West Bank. There will be no “right of return” for those Palestinians living outside Israel, and the best and only hope for those who live in the two territories controlled by Israel are for pragmatic leaders who are ready to reach a compromise with the Israelis, and willing to suppress those fantasists amongst them who are prone to persist in fighting a war they cannot win.

Let’s remind the OP what the word “genocide” means.

“The deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.” (Oxford Dictionary of the English Language)

In 1948, UNWRA registered some 712,000 Arabs as refugees, (including many who lived in the West Bank and Gaza Strip prior to the 1948 war and who did not lose their homes, livelihood or anything else). In 1951 UNRWA published a report that admitted the number was inflated and estimated the real number of genuine refugees at between 550,000 and 600,000.

Since then, that number in the West Bank and Gaza alone has grown to more than 5 million.

One would have to believe that if Israel is indeed carrying out a policy of genocide, it also has to be the least efficient genocidal perpetrator in history.

It only took Nazi Germany 6 years to commit their genocide of Gypsies, Poles, Jews, Russians, homosexuals, resistance members and dissenters to the tune of almost 20 million.

Compared to that, Israel is a rank amateur when it comes to genocide.

No. Contrary to what all these anti-Zionists will tell you, the number is utterly irrelevant. All that matters is that the aggressor is attempting to destroy an entire homogeneous group of people based on race, ethnicity, or other cultural grouping.

There are several facts that prove Israel is not attempting genocide against the Palestinian people, contrary to what you’ve read in Al Jazeera, the BBC and CNN:

1. the Palestinians are not a unique group. They are ethnically, culturally and racially identical to all other Arabs in the region. There is no difference between an Arab Muslim Palestinian and an Arab Muslim Jordanian or Syrian. Zero. Same language, same culture, same customs, same foods. In fact, 70% of Jordan is Palestinian. Even if every person in Gaza was killed, their culture and practices would live on right next door, just 25 miles away in Judea and Samaria, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq and other places.
2. ignoring the last point and pretending Gazans are unique from those Arabs in those other areas (including Judea and Samaria), the only way someone could say Israel is really committing genocide is if they carpet bombed the entire of Gaza. They could have done that on October 8. They haven’t. It would have made it safer for their ground troops. It would have gotten rid of the Hamas problem once and for all. Again, they didn’t. I won’t get into the leaflets, civilian corridors or other warnings to minimize civilian casualties.
3. even if you believe the 43,000 number Hamas is throwing around, that’s 2% of the population, barring any births. 2% is not a genocide. At that number, you're within a stones throw from the number of people in Gaza who died from Covid. And no one on the Arab side, including Hamas, is denying that number includes a huge number of terrorists.
4. let’s not ignore the birthrate now. And consider the natural death rate as well. Once you include that, there are actually 36,000 more people in Gaza now than there were a year ago, November 2023. How can there be a genocide if there are more people than there were before the “genocide” started?

Can we please just drop this idiotic claim already?

Because if every member of Hamas is not killed within that 120,000 then what would be the point?

I always remember a quote Charles Bronson made in the movie Death Wish 3 justifying to the police chief why he should just obliterate all of New York to get the gang members.

“He isn’t finished, it isn’t finished, it’s like killing roaches, unless you kill them all, what is the point”

Unless you kill every single last member of Hamas. They will just regroup and poison more minds with this Jew hatred and a further October 7th style attack will occur in the future.

The only way Israel can be safe is if Hamas and all of its supporters are gone, completely from the whole world never to return.

And while Muslims are playing the victim at the above. What Hamas did on October the 7th was so utterly sick, twisted and barbaric that there was no other outcome possible but the total and utter annihilation of Hamas. You mass rape and kill children. The only punishment justifiable for that is to be wiped out as an ideology.

By the way if Hamas had any decency and honour about them they would hand themselves in and face a trial in the court of law giving them the chance to justify their actions in front of a judge to save Palestinian lives. But everyone knows they will never do that. They will sit back and let innocent Palestinians be killed in the cross fire of Israel trying to take them out

Let's review the laws of war:

1. It's legal to shoot and kill combatants. The age doesn't matter. If a 10 year old is pointing an AK at you, it's perfectly legal to blow his brains out.
2. If enemy combatants have blended in with a civilian population, that civilian population loses a number of legal protections, and military aged men are, at that point, generally considered to be combatants in the absence of other information. The laws of war are a two way street, and if you don't follow them, the other side is not obligated to. On the battlefield, this is even more true. A 17 year old male walking or running through a battlefield where one side is not wearing uniforms and mixing with the civilian population is a valid military target. The idea of the laws of war is that by following certain rules, your civilians and noncombatants are protected. In Gaza, Hamas specifically doesn't want them protected. It wants to use civilian casualties as pawns.
3. What's NOT legal is to kill people who are clearly non-combatants, ON PURPOSE. Going into a home and killing everyone including children isn't legal. But if your artillery strike misses and hits that home, it's not a war crime.
4. It's commonly believed that someone needs to be an immediate threat to shoot them on the battlefield, but this isn't true. Any combatant can be targeted and killed at any time, unless they are out of action (due to wounds, etc) or are actively surrendering.

So, let's look at the video of Nadim being killed through that lens.

There had recently been various stone throwing and other actions on the parts of the "youth" in the area. That makes this, legally, a battlefield. He was a military age male who entered the battlefield, where combatants don't wear uniforms. This makes him a combatant, as Hamas chooses not to separate military from civilian.

This is a legal shoot. Note that those who rushed to his aid, and various people recording the incident weren't fired upon. If they were, that would have been much dicier under the laws of war. But those shootings were arguably legal, as long as we posit that Hamas and Israel were in a state of war at the time.

And this is why people like me who advocate for two states are getting bloody nowhere. No, there will be no ethnic cleansing of Jews.

Even if Israel was defeated militarily (and that is near impossible), those who defeated us will not have a victory.

If Israel truly feels that we will cease to exist, we’re going to make sure we are a bitter pill to swallow.

Before being ethnically cleansed,

Israel will blow up all our infrastructure and carpet bomb everything. Enjoy the rubble. These nice highways and those lovely farms? Gone. (Look up Samson plan, we really mean it)

This incredible port? Gone.

All these buildings and homes and offices and schools? Gone.

The special revenge. Every desalinization plant? I imagine Israel will be blowing those up first. People can drink the sea water, and choke. Yes, it’s harsh, but hey, not our problem anymore.

New WRI rankings place 14 of the world’s 33 most water-stressed countries in the Middle East and north Africa region (Mena), including Bahrain, Kuwait, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Palestine, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Iran and Lebanon. Companies, farms and residents in these countries are all highly vulnerable to the slightest change in supplies, says the WRI.

Middle East faces water shortages for the next 25 years, study says

Wanna know how bad?

Enter desalination. The Ashkelon plant, in 2005, provided 127 million cubic meters (166 million cubic yards) of water. Hadera, in 2009, put out another 140 million cubic meters (183 million cubic yards). And now Sorek, 150 million cubic meters (196 million cubic yards). All told, desal plants can provide some 600 million cubic meters (785 million cubic yards) of water a year, and more are on the way. Israel Proves the Desalination Era Is Here

Gone.

Nothing remains.

What? You think Israel is going to get expelled and leave everything behind? Seriously?

Wow. You think highly of us. I’m sad to say, we’re not that selfless.

Now, sure people can rebuild.

Not sure where the money will come from. UNRWA will be disbanded, since no more refugee crisis. I’m pretty sure foreign aid is no longer relevant. Who is going to do it?

The Gulf countries have their own problems. Iran has their own problems. Europe, US and Canada, maybe, but given how many people suffer in poverty today, it’s going to be a very long wait. ‘Syria Won’t Recover for Decades’ – An Expert’s View on The Cost of War on The Country

They say 200 billion to rebuild Syria. And so far, no one seems eager to pay.

So prepare for a very long wait.

Egypt and Jordan aren’t interested in helping, they have their own issues and a desperately poor country on their border is not great for them.

So now, you have a country of rubble, no infrastructure, no foreign investment, no agriculture, and severe water shortages? And guess who is on the border?

ER Miku's answer to If Israel were given over to the Arabs would there be peace in the Mid East?

If the Israelis are ethnically cleansed, not much will be left behind.

Surely not, It’s not Okay at all, and nothing can makes something like that Okay.

To know, what you are talking about is one of a thing called Occupation, and unfortunately, that happens every day since very long time.

Removing Palestinians is done by many ways for the purpose of taking over the Palestinians lands and homes:

• Israeli new legislations
• Use Power and force.
• Illegal Settlements !.

and there are other ways, You can take a look here:
(Israel legalises settler homes on private Palestinian land) and (Israel OK's 2,500 new Jewish homes in Palestinian territory).

We are not talking about what happened before 1948, that was the big removing, but we are talking about what happens nowadays.

Because, in contradiction with the propaganda spread by pro-Hamas and pro-Palestinian (not a whole lot of difference between the two) morons and trolls, Israel made a real effort to avoid civilian deaths.

Had Hamas comply to international law, they would not have embedded military installation in civilian neighborhoods, would allow their own people to leave to safer zones, avoid killing Palestinians who defied their orders and tried to flee and would just end this war by handing over the hostages and lay down their arms and surrender.

So, the real question is how long will Hamas bleed their own people…

No. In fact you would have an incredibly difficult time finding even one Israeli supporter who would say that.

Conversely, you would have a very easy time finding a Palestinian and their supporters who are calling for the annihilation of Israel and the genocide of all Jews around the world. Its written in black and white in Hamas’ charter.

There are some days I wonder if these people who are accusing Israel of genocide should get their wish. Israel could get it done with zero Israeli casualties (except the few hostages who are still alive) and a fraction of the cost of one Iron Dome defense engagement, all wrapped up by lunchtime.

Fun fact: given if you remove the number of Gazans who would have died of natural causes and add the continued explosive birthrate, there are more relative Gazans today than on October 6.

There’s no single answer to this.

Should an Israeli who walks up to a Palestinian and stabs him in the heart be held accountable? Certainly, just as the Palestinian should be held to account when the situation is reversed.

Should an Israel who kills a Palestinian while that Palestinian is attacking an Israeli civilian? No. It’s called self-defense or protection of others.

Should a soldier who kills a civilian in battle be held to account? Only if it can be proven that the killing of the civilian was deliberate and unrelated to the miliraty objective that led to the death.

These situations are discussed thoroughly in the Hague Convention on Land Warfare. There should be no need to ask this question on a forum like this.

If any Israeli murders anyone unjustly, they would be held accountable and prosecuted under Israeli law. Israel holds these people accountable and punishes them to the full extent of the law.

Unfortunately, in the PA areas, the same standard is not applied. This whore of terror admits to killing 15 innocent people, the majority of them children. She was traded in a prisoner exchange. Instead of sitting in a Palestinian prison, the bloody slut moved to Jordan immediately after her release. Her arrival there was attended by hundreds of people, including relatives, many Muslim Brotherhood supporters and trade unionists and citizens. She later met with Hamas leader Khaled Mashal in Cairo, Egypt. She currently walks free, and hosts a Jordanian talk show, Nasim Al-Ahrar ([Breeze of the Free]), on the Hamas-affiliated Al-Quds TV.

Will she be held accountable?

I hope so. But I doubt it.

Well, “okay” is a word that could describe a momentary situation very seldom happening in the Israeli-Palestinian context…

Every now and then, another so-called rogue Palestinian faction tries to show all other Palestinians that it is the only one keeping up the “flame” and tries launching some kind of deadly attack at Israel… And then Israel retaliates with the appropriate ferocity and blast another rocket production facility sky high or something like that…

But so far, things are relatively calm and for good reason.

Firstly, most of the active defiance comes from the Hamas. The Fatah that controls the West bank (for now) is in a state of panic from the way Hamas is gaining ground in the West Bank and try to find ways to block this. After all, everything happening between Israel and the Palestinians is all about the survival of the Fatah and I mean physical survival…

Secondly, the greatest allies of the Hamas are Iran and thus, by association, Russia too and at the moment, both are in deep trouble and cannot really take care of their protege.

Thirdly, Israel is up for an election and it is already a tradition that the Palestinians like to meddle in Israeli politics by way of the Arab parties and by drawing Israel to a confrontation that will, hopefully according to the Palestinians, push more and more Israeli to the leftist side…

So, “okay”? Sort of… Tension is in the air… We will see how this unrolls.

It’s hard to know whether this question is intended seriously or is only designed to provoke predictable answers. As someone who has no dog in the fight (I’m with Mercutio on this), I’d say the Israelis would like to be seen observing the Rules of War which prohibit the deliberate targetting of civilian populations. As a recognized state, Israel is cautious about its image in these affairs, whereas, as a terrorist organization, Hamas obviously has no problem with this kind of action.

That said, the scale of the Israeli reprisals against the Gazans has to be of concern. UNICEF and Save the Children say that 1,000 Gazan children have been killed in Israeli air strikes, and this number is going to increase dramatically with any Israeli incursion. What makes this doubly troubling is that the purported reason for the Israeli attacks - to remove Hamas - is patently absurd. There is no way that military action is going to remove Hamas, because its money is in Iran, its leaders are in Qatar, and Israel has just created the greatest possible number of new recruits by its actions.

Unless Israel intends to turn Gaza into a literal prison, Hamas (or a substitute) will be back as soon as the Israelis leave.

Since the KGB invented the “Palestinian people” in 1964, it would have been impossible.

Israel isn’t killing Palestinian people at random. In fact there are five times as many Palestinians here as when the state of Israel was established.

Israel and the Palestinians are basically at war. Around two million Palestinians live in Gaza and their government represents militant Islam, backed by Iran, and think the whole region should be a Muslim theocracy.

Another three million Palestinians live on the West Bank, with an incompetent and corrupt government, and Israel is gradually settling our own citizens on territory which could have been a Palestinian state. The Palestinians object to this (duh) and want to take over Israel as well, and at this point there are huge groups there who are armed, and there are daily shoot-outs with the Israeli soldiers, which lead to Palestinians being killed because the IDF is stronger, and also sometimes to innocent bystanders being killed.

There are another two million Arabs, some of whom identify as Palestinians, who are Israeli citizens with equal rights to any other Israeli citizen (except they don’t have to be drafted into the army.) None of them are being killed by Israel. In fact a few do serve in the army, or more generally in “national service” which is some kind of community service.

I admit I’m a bit baffled by these questions.

So me and a group of guys, we go find your parents, and kill them. Find your relatives, and kill them.

Then we go back to our home town, go into a school, and say “You can’t shoot us! We’re in a school! Can’t do anything! Sucks to be you! We’ll kill the rest of you after you leave!”.

Now what do you do? Do you just… let them go? Or do you attack and risk people getting killed in collateral damage?

And keep in mind, that the entire time, they are shooting at you from the school. Do you shoot back? Because someone might get killed in collateral damage, if you shoot back.

So you just what? What would you do? Nothing? Let them kill you? Or go home, and wait for the next attack that kills more of your relatives and neighbors and family?

What do you do? You tell me?

Did you see WW2 Germany?

No collateral damage there, right? They only flattened half the city. I’m sure not a single child was harmed.

Of course there is collateral damage in war, and of course civilians are going to die when you defend your nation from terrorists.

That’s how wars work. That’s why you don’t start wars.

But if you do start a war, you lose your right to complain when civilians are killed in collateral damage.

NO. Land was purchased by immigrants from willing Arab and Turkish (remember this was durign the Ottoman rule over the region) landowners and when Israel was declared it became sovereign over the state owned land (that means they replaced the prior sovereign, the British, who replaced the Ottomans). After Israel survived the Arab initiated invasion of Israel on the day of its declaration of Independence, land that was abandoned by the Arabs who left, any Arab showing ownership of such abandoned land can have it purchased by Israel, otherwise it is largely in trust. Many have, but the Palestinian Authority has a law that makes selling any land to a Jew illegal, with the death penalty. The 156,000 Palestinians/Arabs that remained in Israel who are now full and equal citizens have had their property rights respected and can purchase land within Israel.

Why did the British kill so many Germans who were not directly Warmacht or SS?

Why did the Americans kill so many Afghanies who were not Taliban or Al Qaeda?

Why did French Commandos kill civilians in Africa that were not Boku Haram?

It's because warfare, especially such imposed by the terrorists and dictators to be conducted within tightly populated urban settings, using civilians as shields, will always have lethal outcomes that are not intended.

Sterile combat in urban settings is a myth and you are being fooled by cunning and vicious terrorists, partying on you ignorance around military matters.

The responsibility lies with the terrorists.

it’s a war, so yes.

also no, because israelis are technically palestinians too.

palestine is a geographical area, not a country, not a city or town or place, a geographical fucking area…

that means it includes Israel.

Then again people are so fucking stupid and listen to people in TV rather than scholars i’m not surprised the majority of america can’t even tell what a geographical area even is, even saw a piece on a documentary where most americans couldn’t even name a country starting with the letter U… or A…

Can you imagine… United States of America, but they can’t even think of a country with those letters? Could say United Stares of America or even America but instead they act dumbfounded…

so actually i can believe idiots can’t even comprehend what a geographical location is, you’re just born stupid it seems