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Drive it like you stole it and smile!

 

While it's possible that you've got fraudulent mileage, it's also possible that someone entered a reading incorrectly. 107,000KM is 66,486 miles - if the person who took the reading assumed it was miles and converted it to KM for the report, that might explain the discrepancy.

I suspect that if you read the end-user agreement with the reporting company, they will indicate that they supply facts as reported and are not responsible for any errors or omissions. Even if you had damages to prove, I don't think you'd be successful.

What did the previous readings say? IF the previous odomoter reading was 100,000KM, I'd suspect that the next one at 107K is correct. However, if the previous readings were consistent with the LOWER number, the assumption would be that someone screwed up with the single high reading.

Even if you were able to prove that the reporting company was negligent, you might be able to recover the difference in value between 72K and 107K KM - with ultimately is probably not going to be worth your time and the cost of an attorney.

It sure doesn't LOOK like it's done over 100,000KM...

If the car in question was an air-cooled Turbo or similar high-dollar car, I'd worry. However, the 996 values just aren't high enough (in my opinion) to warrant doctoring the mileage. If there is a discrepancy, I imagine it's due to a mistake or MAYBE an instrument cluster replacement, but that's a stretch.

 

Here is report . Its all on KM

https://reports.carproof.com/main?id...%2fDTFnQ%3d%3d

 

Since there are two different readings on the report, years apart, with higher mileage than what your cluster currently shows, maybe the cluster did get swapped out. How does the report showing the higher miles differ from the original report?

You're sure the same VIN is on both reports? It seems odd that one reporting company would get the facts so wrong compared to the other.

 

^^^^ This^^^^^^

 

100k km/2800hr = 35km/hr, which is quite low as an average but I guess it's possible if it's mainly driven on local traffic.

Any service history you can trace the mileage?

 

Yes the VIN is correct both outside and inside the car computer. I'm thinking to believe that its was in miles then converted to KM when car was registered

 

I called Porsche Canada and the last record they got was it was in a dealer for service on May 18 2006 at 39734km

 

I'm with you - I think this was a conversion error somewhere along the way. Otherwise, the car was a garage queen for many years, and then suddenly it was ragged out, with the mileage doubling in three years? It definitely doesn't LOOK like a car that put in 40,000KM in just 3 years.

The operating hour count is kind of hard to go by - if a car did nearly all highway/interstate miles, it could have an average of 50+ MPH; if it was an in-town car, the average could be as low as 10-15.

If the car is healthy (seems to be) and looks good (seems to), put this stuff in a folder and file it, and just enjoy racking up your own KM...again, this isn't a low-mile classic Aston Martin we're talking about, so the $$ amount in the balance isn't tremendous. $20K (in Canada!) for a nice 996 with a couple of tasteful upgrades (4-spoke, aluminum pedals) is a pretty sweet deal...

 

At 2800 hrs I'd be expecting around 140,000 kms+ as a normal mileage..

 

If it's running good and the PPI was good then I wouldn't worry. Do your PM as planned and let ME know the condition of the double race IMS on your 99. I wager its as good as the day it left Stuttgart. If the clutch is slipping then do it. If not then leave it. BTW mine is a 99 and has done 73600 miles. Looks just like yours inside apart from your dials.

 

If you got ripped off (and I'm not saying you did, it could easily be a metric/English conversion issue), then you can sue someone for the damages you've suffered. The problem that I see is that your damages are going to be nominal. What's the value difference between your car with correct mileage and mileage unknown? $1,000? $2,000? $5,000? Even if it is $10,000 (which it's not), is that worth suing over? First, you'll have the burden of proof to show who did the dirty deed - maybe the prior owner that sold it to you was a victim as well if it was done by an owner prior to him. Second, you have to go to the hassle of filing the lawsuit, getting service, winning the judgment, then collecting on the judgment. The only way that I can see this being worth pursuing is if you bought it from a dealership that has a bond for its license, and you can easily prove they were the bad actors and then you can possibly get punitive damages. My 2 cents worth. But remember, I'm a bankruptcy attorney - my litigation advice is worth exactly what you just paid me for it.
Disclaimers: Nothing in the foregoing was meant to establish an attorney-client relationship. As an attorney licensed only in the states of Missouri and Kansas, I am not competent to give advice relating to other jurisdictions.

 

Oh, and "nice car".

 

+996

 

From your link:

therefore, there may be other title brands, odometer readings or discrepancies that apply to this vehicle that are not reflected on this report. CarProof and its US. data provider, Experian, search data from additional sources where possible, but all problems and discrepancies may not be reflected on the CarProof Vehicle History Report. These reports are based on information supplied to Carproof and Experian by external sources believed to be reliable, but no responsibility is assumed by CarProof,

In the US most states take a very dim view of this kind of stuff. I have no idea what the courts in Canada are like. Just by having a mileage discrepancy you have damages. You also have damages considering the actual mileage is higher than was advertised. I would stop calling and start suing. Either explain it to the judge/magistrate, or make it right.

<edit; One more thing, the engine has 2800 hours. If we postulate that the common average speed is 80KPH(~50MPH), then 2800*80= 224,000 KM traveled. Or, we could do 107,000KM/2800Hrs and that would yield an ave speed over the life of the engine of 38KPH. Yeah - right. I don't trust any numbers on the car. >

 

Never mind. Not opining on the merits of suing...nope.

 

pfft..

 

LOL @ suing over mileage discrepancy. Who are you going to sue? PO? On a 16 year old car?

You took possession of the vehicle as-is from the private party. If the car blew up after you drove it home, would you also try to sue the seller? In any private car sale, once money and keys change hands- the car is yours and so are the problems.

And seriously, 72k km or 107k km on the 16 year old car is nothing;42k miles or 60k miles, either way you car was a garage queen. If you had a discrepancy of 42k miles and 242k miles I could see that as being a bit of a bummer.

 

The real issue will become evident once 95% of 996's have been wrecked or scrapped (I'm thinking late 2049/early 2050) - at which point this mileage discrepancy could damage resale value. Of course, the real money will be in matching-numbers 996's - and we all know there won't be any of those left by next May.

 

Fine with me, but I"ve actually recovered on that scenario you stated in CA. Like I said don't know what things are like in the great white north.

It's a limited edition, 40th AE car, with a sketchy history now. I guess bend over is fine with you folks.

<edit forgot. How does a garage queen accumulate 2800 engine hours? I guess at 38KPH. ooooookkkkkkk >

 

Suing for damages makes no sense to me. Suing to get the transaction reversed - if you can prove it was made under false pretenses - makes sense if you want to get rid of this car and find one without a story.

Car in question will still be sketchy regardless of whether you get $900 (or whatever the value difference is between the high and low mileage numbers) back, assuming you are able to prove that the mileage was misrepresented.

 

If you're not happy give the seller a chance to give your money back. If you don't want to do that then just enjoy it. I realize you would have been happier if there was no mystery about the mileage but unfortunately that will never be.

 

Personally I would never buy a car from Quebec. There is too much funny business with used cars in that province. However, I don't think this one is anything to worry about. Considering it is 16 years old, that is acceptable mileage (why don't we say kilometerage?) If it makes you feel better, mine had about 4 previous owners, spend time in NJ and Ohio and Florida, and has 135,000 KMs on it and runs like a champ. 20k is not a bad price for a '99 nowadays in Canada. Just drive it.

 

It's the French, right? Figures.

 

I love the Québécois..but since you asked...QC is sort of known for washed titles, odometer rollbacks, and salvage getting put back on the market. If you check auto trader.ca QC cars are always less $ than the rest of the country. Again, all circumstantial, but I would be careful. This could be an example. OP probably has a perfectly good car and a good PPI will figure this all out if done prior to purchase. profiter de la voiture!

https://rennlist.com/forums/rennlist...in-quebec.html

 

I see the OP has put the car up for sale, so I guess he is parting ways. He is declaring / mentioning the odo discrepancy in his ad, which is a good honest step on his part. GLWS! And I hope you land another one soon.

 

I would bet a beer (with the OP, not everyone on RL!) that the current odometer is reading in MILES, not KM. A photo of the odometer would be really helpful.

The last recorded odometer reading of 107,000 km was in 2012, 2+ years ago. That converts to something like 66K+ miles. Another 6K miles in 2+ years is pretty consistent with the car's use and would put the mileage to something around 72K miles.

You can easily change the odometer reading between miles and KM, and my guess is that someone did this along the way somewhere, probably inadvertently.

 

here is dash image

 

As much as I want to punch most people who mention Occam's Razor, what's more likely - that someone rolled back the mileage on a 996 (which, despite our protestations, isn't going to be worth 10X as much with slightly lower miles), or the car was displaying KMs and someone mistook it for miles...

If the instrument cluster was upholstered in a different color than the rest of the car, sure, maybe it was swapped out, but...

 

I am from Quebec and half the year in Florida where I purchased a 2000 996 coupe.The problem with a used car in Quebec is the winters and salt and the bad spring road that create havoc on your suspension.I bought my Porsche from Jacksonville sight unseen but with a PPI.Not sure it was a good idea as I always check out my cars before hand. It had 128,000 miles on it with lots of work done on it. New bilstein shocks,IMS and other more minor things.I knew that I would be doing some work on it .But it came sooner than expected.The second day the check engine went on and checked the code.Probably MAF. As a first attempt I cleaned it and the check light did not return.Good news.I then noticed a coolant leak in my garage.It was the AOS. Had it changed at my indy shop.Came home and next day RMS leak started. Minimal but as the car is going in storage I will have that done in the fall. Now the check light went back on and error code seems to indicate O2 sensor.I will also do that in the fall. As you see a lot of things crepted up in a short time.But I find them all expected for the mileage and the car is still running like new.I feel once these bugs are corrected I should have a fairly reliable car.

have a fairly reliable car

 

Live and learn. No point in suing. You say it's 100% perfect now so just enjoy it! Remember, don't baby these cars! You must drive them like you are escaping from an erupting volcano every time you step on the gas.

 

Pyroclastic flow moves at up to 450mph. While the 996 is quite a car, I'm not certain that it's going to outrun an erupting volcano. In fact, that imaginary sequence of events (drive it really fast until it catches on fire) makes one think more of a 2014 GT3 than a 996...

 

Interested in getting comments on whether or not you'd roll-back an odometer to 00000 if you had your Turbo completely restored to "new" condition, especially if your original 85 mph speedo was upgraded to a 160 or 180 and you don't have any record of when it was R&R'd.

What say you?

 

As long as you were up front about why you did it and not trying to get over on someone .......why not?

 

If you are asking for opinions...IMHO: I would not roll back. In fact, I have restored cars and old motorcycles and went through the trouble of resetting the restored odometer to the correct mileage. And...take lots of pictures and fully document anything you do with the odometer as it may raise eyebrows (such as me)

 

Don't do it.......it will put a black cloud on the car down the road.

It will not hurt the value at all to leave the mileage on your odometer.

 

I would much rather buy the car from you down the road with the original mileage, no matter how high !

 

My point is If it doesn't have the original speedo now it's already suspect. Who knows what the actual miles are?

 

Absolutely "not"..but as someone has already said if it doesn't have the original speedo, how can one know the true mileage...truth is when it comes to mileage, these cars are a joke..probably one of the easiest cars to keep the mileage down...at this point condition should be #1

 

All good and fair points. I have an 180 mph speedo in my '79 930, but according to all the research I've read, my number, 864, would have come with an 85 mph speedo. So, that means it was changed at some point and I'm interested in fully documenting the complete mileage, if possible. Now, I have service receipts from all the owners (I'm the fourth). The first service receipt shows mileage of 280 on 12 Jun 1980, just 3 months after the car was purchased in Feb 1980. And then all of the subsequent service receipts show mileage increasing from there-on. Out of the 34 service receipts I have, not a single preceding service receipt has lesser mileage than the successive receipt. It's completely linear in terms of mileage and dates. So, I'm left to deduce that the original owner either replaced the 85 mph with the 180 speedo early-on in the car's life (prior to 280 miles), or he had the 180 speedo's odometer wound to the exact mileage on the 85 mph speedo/odometer when he R&R'd it. Is that a reasonable conclusion? I've reached out to the original owner to see if he recalls changing out the speedo, and if so, when did he do it.

I appreciate the comments and suggestions. Like it was said earlier, it's all about being honest and upfront with a prospective buyer about what has/has not been done to the car. But, I certainly wouldn't want to do anything during the restoration that would jeopardize the value of the car down the road...that's the reason I'm asking so many questions from you guys.

 

Do not do it. No need worsening the situation by introducing another variable.

The car is what it is and to a qualified buyer will be valued accordingly. Mileage is not the ruling factor, condition is.

 

Leave it alone - that would make me wonder what the hell else has been done. It's a big enough dance already with all the undocumented switches from the 85 MPH speedo's on the 79's.
Phil

 

Thanks for the comments. Just talked with the original purchaser of the vehicle. He says he replaced the speedo within the first few days of owning the car. Just couldn't stand looking at the 85 mph speedo. So, at least I now know that the 51,800 miles on the car are very close to original.

Appreciate all the comments. I'll heed the advice and leave the odometer as is while having the car restored.

 

The 85mph speedometer U.S. Federal law was hardcore. I read an online 1980 NHTSA ruling where a classic speedometer company wanted the ability to keep making original replacement speedos (not 85 mph units) for classic 1960’s Corvettes and the feds said “NO”. Not saying the original owner couldn’t have found a speedo in a parts supply somewhere to replace the 85 mph unit but there’s no way it was documented at a Porsche + Audi or any other car dealership (it was illegal – against federal law). The first opportunity to legally replace the 85mph speedos occured after President Reagan took office and the horrible law was appealed in 1982.