Well stated. I purchased a Houdini because Josh attended a show, took the time to speak with me, and they were responsive to a small issue I had. Based on everything I’ve read, they have killed all the good will of former employees and will be tough to make a come back.

Houdini is definately the best machine they made and one of my favorites.

Maybe AP should consider a SharkTank pitch? VPcabs did it 7 years ago (Daymond took 25% for $200k) and have since stablized and grown. Maybe Daymond would get involved directly for a roll-up since apparently he lists VPcabs as one of his top 5 investments.

https://www.sharktankblog.com/business/vpcabs/

AP doesn't need funding. They have all the funding they need via Aimtron. You don't think they'd be laughed out of the shark tank when they see that they have a huge parent company thats been dumping and burning money into the company for close to a decade for nearly zero success? Why would anyone invest into that?

Yeah as part of being on Shark Tank you need to be an open book, all financials must be disclosed. Now if David Fix "didn't have any financials" what are the chances that Shark Tank would?

“You did what to the cabinet? I’m out…”

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Think VPCabs sold the business prior to any major growth. The new owner mainly wanted the known and generally respected brand name and is now importing machines produced to his specifications from China, and selling for premium price / mark-up. Smart guy - only major US producer of VP’s. Doesn’t support and basically has nothing to do with the original VPCabs. Hard to believe the deal was that lucrative. $5-$10M annual revenue sounds about right for $10k a pop UltraVP machines. Not sure API has any marketable value (assets, brand name, back catalog…) at this point.

Let me get this straight. You started a pinball company 7 years ago, the only time you were in the black was during the pandemic when demand was high because everyone was stuck at home. You've been back in the red for the past 2 years, you're now building arcade cabinets for another company because you can't sell pinball machines when your company name is literally american pinball. You fired all of the developer staff so I don't know how you plan to release the next game, and yet you're asking 10% at a million dollar evaluation? How the hell did you come up with that number?

So do we get 10% of the aimtron business as well? No?!! Well then I'm out

mr_wonderful (resized).jpg

Just saw on IG that GTF is getting a code update and they are making 100 more in 2025.

Interesting move from a company ready to close up shop.

INDISC is playing with newer code than has been released. It still has problems. Hopefully AP gives the game more polish time.

So, they sold out of the original run, or are close?

Was it a post from this guy?

9hycmb (resized).jpg

Nowhere close. If the put a killer price on the super deluxe one they can finally make a dent in all the parts Fix ordered that have been just sitting there. With some more code polish, especially so multiplayer is more reliable. I think they could sell a decent amount of standards once they settle the lawsuit and also pay Nordman what he's owed. No one who knows how they've screwed those people is going to pay them for a machine while that's still out there.

The hundred are classic editions

Is that below Deluxe?

Signature
Limited
Deluxe
Classic ?

Seems like they'd want to blow out all those paid for (or maybe not paid with the stiffing vendors?) LE and Signature parts they're living with.

Anyone can please feel free to DM me with specific bugs you've experienced with multiplayer games (or anything else). As usual with bug reporting, the more detail you can provide, the better. Thanks!

INDISC is limiting play to 1P games and still bugs were seen on the 1P streams. The first one I noticed is here (and Steve Bowden doing commentary even calls the surprise multiball as an "error condition"):

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2362375089?t=05h55m24s

But keep watching and there are at least one or two more, if I remember right. Multiplayer is even more buggy, but you won't see that on the INDISC stream.

The run of 100 is for the “Classic” edition of the game that was never released.

From AP directly I was told this version would be $1000 less than the deluxe but have the following removed.

-Shaker
-knockers
-magic glass
-art blades
-aura lighting
-robot mech with PCB that runs the robot & ufo movement…ufo target works but it’s stationary…robot still activates but it’s only on screen

They did tell me that the cost for these items combined is about $1000 and they could be added back in if requested.

Thanks for the clarification.

Seems like the ufo movement should be left. It can't cost all that much and impacts the experience. The rest of the stuff, not a big deal.

$1000 off Deluxe makes it $7995, which is between a Stern Pro and Prem. Not a great place to live when they need the sales.

well at other events just one software fail is what it takes to kick it out.

surprise multiball as an "error condition" I think that happens american pinball houdini

Houdini had "surprise multiballs" (what we called them when I had one) VERY frequently in the first year or 18 months. It got better over time as the software progressed, but I still don't think all of them are polished out.

I still really like Houdini and would have it back again anytime. The ones after that...not so much.

That was hilarious! Ole "Baghdad Bob". His press conferences were comical relief during anxious moments back then. In March 2008, it was reported that al-Sahhaf was living in the United Arab Emirates. I guess ole "Comical Ali" is still alive.

I would not even take one at a bargain price - even if ridiculously low. Heck not even a game at a Hundred bucks with free delivery.

Any cheerleading, hyperbole or weird optics plays very very low if you have any common sense. All the baggage, the Reno lawsuit , contracts broken or unfulfilled with Nordman, Kugler and others. Discarding almost all staff including the last few key cogs including their game designer, the engineer and others dismissing them right before the Holidays - Merry Christmas staff from AP, we don't need you anymore.

Sounds like there are only a few employees left, maybe as many as you can count on one hand if they have managed to lure away a couple new ones away from the local Burger chain ? yup thats a place ready to pump out some games. Huge eyeroll

Good news is that within a year the classic will be another $1000 off from lack of sales. I kind of like the theme, have never played it, will keep an eye out

My bad, I should have inserted the Sarc.

A few posts later hearing it is the classic makes "more" sense, but that wasn't a very high bar.

As an houdini owner about 2 1/2 years now I can say, I had not a single surprise multiball.
I expirienced just some fresh multiball action here and there because this code is so freaking amazing and deep I still don't know all of them after that time.

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Classic model was on the original game flyer (as a decontented deluxe) but was not produced before now.
The new announcement says only a limited run of 100 GTF classics will be produced for 2025.
GTF flyer front (resized).jpg
GTF standard flyer (resized).jpg
They reused a pic of the Deluxe for the Classic announcement flyer, but covered up the light rails with the price because the light rails won't be on the Classic.

I have a very early Houdini, got it NIB and haven't seen a unintended multiball in many years, it gets played a lot too. Josh squashed those and other ball tracking issues a long time ago.

Taking the light rails and moving UFO target out are too much IMO.

Houdini was a great game. I owned one twice. Still play one at a friends house who took one of the two I owned.

Josh Kugler is a great guy. He has helped owners even after what AP did to him. Josh is a Class act and stand up guy and a plus to the pinball world.. Why did AP break or not fulfill contracts with guys like him and Dennis Nordman ? Ask yourself why is their a lawsuit in court filed by Paul Reno ? AP is not the company it once was...

They can announce anything that they want but selling 100 games at this point with that price is another thing.

Are you playing multiplayer games? I haven't had the game for like 5 years, but I know towards the end seemed to be most common on multiplayer games.

I often play multiplayer games in co-op mode just to mix it up, and to appease my multiple personalities.

There is no doubt they are not the same company.

Yes... I play most of my games just when people are around playing with me. It just never happened so far...

Playing multiplayer and see some mates stacking multiballs with crossed arms still is one of my favorite pinball moments. One of the guys had to be in that position for about 5 minutes... I was crying tears watching him.

Tons of inventive and fun modes in Houdini. I love the card throwing minigame.

So that means there is no tank movement as well. The shaking when you hit is, is the type of things that help being a game to life and was a key aspect of what Dennis, Paul, Jack and I wanted in the game. We worked hard with Pete, who designed the mech, to get as much out of it as we could and he did a great job with that. I suspect Dennis and Paul are not happy with the removing all of the movement of the tank and saucer.

I would have rather have seen them remove the physical ball lock, than the moving flying saucer.

I wonder what else is being removed. The pop bumper led rings I spent weeks designing? the planet with led lit rings on the mirrored back panel? Spybots?

Be nice if AP provided complete details as to what was removed. Saddens me how the rollout of the game, and doing LEs and SLEs before deluxe machines really tanked it.

As far as Houdini, any ball management issues that had been reported were addressed long ago. If there are still some I would address them if I could, but I can't, but I don't believe there are any. I did have another code release in development with some minor fixes and tweaks and some new magic hat jokes, that will likely never see the light of day. PinMonk I know you experienced this in the early days of Houdini, but it has long, long since been addressed so maybe it is time for you to stop bringing it up. I am glad you enjoyed the card scaling (aka card throwing) video mode. Balcer had only two requests for the game, a video mode and outlane modes and I'm pretty happy with how all of those came out. Card Scaling was something Houdini was quite expert at.

Yeah, it's the wrong thing to remove. Taking off the light rail, I get. But the UFO/Tank are key aspects of the experience. And, honestly, how much could they and the board to drive them cost?

Oh, yes, the variety of magic hat jokes were a funny surprise. More would be welcome. Releasing more code could sell more Houdinis, but AP would have to settle up with you, Nordman, Reno, etc before I would touch anything of theirs. I think others feel the same way.

Also, speaking of Balcer, what a waste that he's apparently over at Raw Thrills now not doing pinball.

100%. I was told a few months ago that the physical ball lock would be removed from the Classic Edition of the game, which made the most sense as it was so problematic. Every show I played this game at the physical ball lock never worked.