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Another year spent in Lucy's love

>>48566127 (OP)
This is the thread

Let's keep this thread wholesome with little to none lewd stuff.

>>48566340
surely some lewd stuff is okay if your feelings are true

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>>48566340
>no lewd stuff
Hey, buddy, you got the wrong thread

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kanon cute

Shipping with K1 tier list:
>Rena/Mion (tie)
>Shion
>Rika
>Hanyuu
>Satoshi
>Satoko

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>>48566478
Good list anon but traditionally these lists go from top to bottom not bottom to up I'd move shion up to second place alongside Satoshi

>>48566478
>tying Mion with Rena
Mionfags are really desperate aren't they?

Actual tier list, same order:
>Mion
>Hanyuu
>Rika
>Satoshi
>Shion
>Rena
>Satoko

>>48566508
>Hanyuu
Way too high
>Rena
Way too low

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>>48566483
Holy based

>>48566518
Hanyuu is literally second to last.

Satoko a shit

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>>48566524
Wedding reception

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>>48566577
>has to resort to deformed AI art because no one will draw them

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>>48566595
>no one will draw them

>>48566313
your face is a thread

>>48566596
Big Brudder is just sharing a snack with his sister! Nothing more

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>Big Brudder is just sharing a spit and tongue with his sister! Nothing more

>>48566595
I'm pretty sure that's why he's acting like this. I remember the other day seeing someone complain about SatoKei artists getting bullied off Twitter by yurifans.

>>48566698
Acting like what?

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You guys lose your Christmas spirit already?
Pray to nipah~!

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Pray to it

I Santa funded /b/ to find Jessica merch but there's really not much to find, especially of Rog Limitation Jessica. Also apparently both non-fans and merchendisers think Jessica is Beatrice https://www.bodypillowanime.com/SM410-Umineko-When-They-Cry-Jessica-Ushiromiya-ANIME-DAKIMAKURA-JAPANESE-PILLOW-COVER.html?srsltid=AfmBOoqfvbG2oG2ZoFS8YGWFiq1q3uOV1ZxhzJzzWypDckPFqbzi475O

>>48566781
I jerked off to this. Just so you know.

>>48566769
I will pray to and worship rikass

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Anyone know where I can find the switch files for Symphony of Catbox and Dreams so I can play it in English using the fan patch? It's not on nyaa or in the google drive.

>>48566796
i don't know

>>48566822
Uh hopefully this is what you're after, sorry if it isn't I don't know what you meant by "Switch Files"

https://github.com/andOlga/umineko-catbox-english

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>>48566848
That's English patch, but it needs you to purchase a copy of Umineko on the Nintendo Switch to use it. Found shady download link for it on nxbrew so gonna see if I can use that, thanks anyway though. Have an Ange.

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>>48566769
anons who repost my gens

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>>48566885
just noticed the fucked arm oops

>>48566877
Yeah a pirated copy will work fine, there's no weird password bullshit or whatever. The Switch version is nice for completionism, since some of the sidestories give a lot of context.

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>And we'll fall in love in a normal way.a=

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>>48566340
impossible, these girls are lewd all on their own

>>48566891
I want to live under rika’s ass

https://vndb.org/w4879

>It's very rare that you encounter a prose work whose fundamental idea is so perfectly expressed that the mere act of engagement with the text forces an engagement with its theme in absolute terms. This is why Umineko is expressively perfect—it's a work whose thesis is self-demonstrating: from the moment the reader starts to wonder what the answer to the mystery is, it's already too late. You will be forced to consider a truth that will always remain contested, that will never reach a consensus, and no matter what your thoughts are, you will display nakedly not the facts of the Rokkenjima incident but only your own 'eyes of the heart'. Umineko no Naku Koro ni doesn't only express and develop its extraordinary idea but rather completes it—trusting, finally, that the disposition of your spirit will permit you to see not an emptiness without truth, but the transparent fullness of truth, like that deep blue ocean which becomes no less abundant for how easily the water slips through your fingers. After all—without love, it cannot be seen.

>>48570676
What a pretentious fucking faggot god I hate Umifags

i too enjoy going out of my way to find things to get mad over

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>>48570676
Yikes.

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I'm re-reading Minagoroshi so maybe this is already addressed and I forgot, but only people at a high level of HS can hear Hanyuu. Rika notices Tomitake hearing Hanyuu through her banging the floor in the shed but doesn't seem to think anything of it?

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>>48570697
>>48570684
he's right tho

>>48570710
Yeah, it's supposed to be foreshadowing for Tomitake's fake vaccine and how he's already L3 due to that, but, yeah, it's something R07 handled very badly in general. Not only Rika not noticing it, Tomitake himself never shows the paranoia you'd expect from someone going up in the levels and like Rika herself says just dismisses any warnings of danger every time she tries to warn him. It's a really weird plot point.

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>>48570676

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>>48570676
Everyone says shit like this from Umineko but I think it's a cope. The culprit should have been revealed explicitly, and there should have been a confrontation. There's no catharsis, and that's not bold and innovative, it's just lame

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>>48570774
Battler learning the truth as well as Will vs Clair was supposed to be that, which would be fine if things ended at EP 7. But it didn't, so EP 8 is an awkward mess because hiding the truth is a massive constraint on the writing and characterization. The manga corrects this but its ultimately a black mark on Umineko's legacy. Last Note does make it explicit but its done in a way where it feels like a consolation prize for VN-onlies.

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Sweet beautiful Enje

>>48566885
Alien rika butt

>>48570810
>>48570774
The manga is much worse than the VN and he should have never released Confessions, which isn't very good. Do either of you not understand why the culprit was not revealed explicitly? It's a big funeral, after all.

>massive constraint on the writing and characterization
The culprit already gets plenty of characterization in the earlier episodes if you go back through the tale. What's the point of repeating things over and over? I think the funniest criticism he gets is that he's too repetitive in his writing and yet his critics demand ever yet more repetition repetition repetition.

>>48570774
If EP7 did not make everything crystal clear to you then you didn't care enough to pay attention

>>48570941
Please carefully read my post instead of assuming I'm just a goat and skimming my post:
>which would be fine if things ended at EP 7. But it didn't, so EP 8 is an awkward mess
EP 8 is not a funeral but a game made for Ange so she can move on. But because we have to pretend we don't know the truth, the writing is bizarre. Consider the scene where Ange is revived after her suicide and the entire family is there. It's strongly implied that what happened in Prime is her own immediate family did the massacre. And yet, Ange doesn't care and immediately forgives them. Beatrice even blames Ange, presumably because of what Ange did as a five year old. Even more bizarre, Ange even accepts the blame. In the manga, Ange acts as you expect: angry at her family. And Beatrice has her womanchild traits toned down just enough to not blame a five year old.

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>>48570941
You need an actual climax and the characters reacting to the plot, not imply a climax happened off-screen and let the readers imagine it. Well, you can do that, but there's a reason there was a big backlash to Episode 8, and even people who don't dislike the truth being hidden often feel like it was empty or just fanservice. Even though it's trying to be this big core moment of development for Ange.

Forget Confessions, the most important and satisfying part of the Episode 8 manga is that you actually get the characters reacting to the revelations when Episode 8 redoes the VN content. It's crazy that Episode 8 tries to be a big look into Ange's character and her growth while trying to hide what exactly she's reacting to, which results in a lot of her reactions not coming off as genuine. And obviously, this extends to the rest of the cast too.

Not to say that Confessions is completely pointless though, the more open look onto Beatrice/Yasu even lets the manga have an even better version of the boat scene, tying things back to episode 1.

The narrative gained absolutely nothing from hiding the truth when it ended up just handcuffing itself due to that.

>>48571047

The manga is cheap and says overmuch, like some bad soap opera. Everyone knows the truth in Ep8 but chooses not to say it as an implicit agreement. A bunch of apologies and whatever might soothe the reader but doesn't fit the theme.
Sayo's story is gone because she's dead and wanting more fanservice for her is pointless when there's already 150 hours worth of it through 7 episodes. Respecting her wishes and giving hope to Ange to live on is the point.

>>48571054
> is that you actually get the characters reacting to the revelations when Episode 8 redoes the VN content.
Meaningless fanservice. Might as well read a wikipedia entry listing "facts".
>while trying to hide what exactly she's reacting to,
But the story doesn't hide what she's reacting to, because we just read 7 chapters of it. We are literally the Ange, the Reader, the Miko. We already experienced it all, and so has she. Getting stuck on the past and wanting meaningless "resolution" for something that cannot be resolved in the first place as a tragedy, unless one lives for the future, is the theme.
>The narrative gained absolutely nothing from hiding the truth
"THE NARRATIVE GAINED NOTHING BY NOT SPILLING THE GUTS OUT FOR MY PLEASURE AND SATISFACTION" - Goats who hated Ep8 and bashed ryukishi for the last thousand years

>>48571096
The silliest criticism is that again, it's not even that "the story is hiding things from me!". The story reveals everything already. The criticism seems to always be "The story isn't repeating it EXPLICITLY enough for me!'. How many repetitions would be enough? 3, 4, 16? 1000? Probably no amount would be good enough, since a lot of the dissatisfaction isn't quite honestly confessed. "Ryukishi didn't bold and underline things enough :(" is a fake criticism to try and collect other more ambiguous vague dissatisfactions in a nice little acceptable bow.

You can list other criticisms, like overlong fight scenes, some weak humor, or whatever. But not repeating itself enough? Umineko, not repeating itself enough?? UMINEKO, not REPEATING ITSEF ENOUGH!? It's laughable!!!! Go back through the tale you morons!!

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Jessica had to die for her anti-semitism

>>48571096
>Everyone knows the truth in Ep8 but chooses not to say it as an implicit agreement.
Yes, and that's why Ange's behavior is strange.
>A bunch of apologies and whatever might soothe the reader but doesn't fit the theme.
It's not about "soothing the reader" but about making us give a shit about Ange. EP 8 isn't primarily a thematic work, but a character-focused one about Ange. This is the point me and the other guy is making, and you aren't getting it. It's like you're only used to arguing with goats and your brain short-circuits when faced with more intelligent criticism.
>>48571054
>The narrative gained absolutely nothing from hiding the truth when it ended up just handcuffing itself due to that.
Right, and if you look at Ryukishi07's interviews, the whole hiding the truth shit wasn't even for narrative reasons, that is just cope by people who hate the manga. It was always due to this esoteric idea about how only people who did the research deserved to know the truth. Admirable, but it's a mentality that would quickly become obsolete in the age of wikis and YouTube. Considering his overall work is about not being stuck in the past, it makes sense that he'd change his mind.

>>48570958
Nigga episode 7 doesn't address the fact that Yasu is bitch made and did Jessica and George so goddamn dirty. Yet the magic ending wants me to view them being with Shannon and Kanon as a good thing?! Shit's on par with the ending of Gun Smith Cats burst where Rally fails to save her friend from being a drug addled sex slave of the main bad guy who gets away with everything

>>48571175
>Yet the magic ending wants me to view them being with Shannon and Kanon as a good thing?!
Kinzo is a rapist and he was also happily in the golden land. You don't understand what golden thinking is.

>>48571166
>but about making us give a shit about Ange.
I did give a shit about Ange, though.
>EP 8 isn't primarily a thematic work,
Did you miss the Magic/Trick ending?? Do you think that's not Thematic??
>when faced with more intelligent criticism.
It's not intelligent, it's just whining.
>but it's a mentality that would quickly become obsolete in the age of wikis and YouTube.
So you? Why not just spoil the whole story in the steam summary blurb? After all, everyone can just read a wiki these days! Why not just put the wiki in the story itself and have the characters Announce How They Feel! Pathetic.

I understand your criticisms just fine. The story had all the information inside it you wanted but it wasn't made "explicit" enough. "The culprit should have been revealed explicitly, and there should have been a confrontation". Like a soap opera, because Wikis and Youtubes exist. It's all very clear.

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>>48570774
I feel like I'm being gaslit whenever I hear people talk about Umineko, when you hear people say "The culprit should have been explicitly revealed" they talk about it as if Umineko was some Avant Garde murder mystery where it literally doesn't tell you who the murder was, and then you play it and it's just scene after scene after scene after scene telling you who the murderer is in the Questions Arcs.

The entirety of Episode 7 is literally telling you explicitly who the culprit is and why they did it, Shannon literally opens up the episode revealing that Shannon and Kanon are the same person, then you literally get to see Yasu's perspective, then the entire character of Lion is revealed, then Will gives you all of the hints to solve all of the locked rooms.
And then you go online and people get mad because Ryukishi didn't explicitly turn to the camera and write down the exact words of "Yasu, who is also Shannon and Kanon, is the culprit of Umineko who did the murders because they loved Battler."

It's insane that the backlash against Umineko for not 'explaining' everything was so big at the time because it literally spoonfeeds you the answer.

>>48571212
>I did give a shit about Ange, though.
Good for you. Most people didn't for the reasons that have been outlined:
>Consider the scene where Ange is revived after her suicide and the entire family is there. It's strongly implied that what happened in Prime is her own immediate family did the massacre. And yet, Ange doesn't care and immediately forgives them. Beatrice even blames Ange, presumably because of what Ange did as a five year old. Even more bizarre, Ange even accepts the blame.
You haven't actually engaged with this point, btw.
>Did you miss the Magic/Trick ending?? Do you think that's not Thematic??
Keyword in my post: primarily.
>So you? Why not just spoil the whole story in the steam summary blurb? After all, everyone can just read a wiki these days! Why not just put the wiki in the story itself and have the characters Announce How They Feel! Pathetic.
Strawman. Giving the answers in the work =! giving them outside.
>Like a soap opera,
You're saying this in defense of EP 8, which has a bunch of brainless fight scenes. Have you actually read Umineko or are you just trying to make its readers look bad? You haven't said anything substantial, just parroting the same strawman.

>>48571212
>>48571275
Like it'd be interesting if you pulled a Rosatrice and said the manga created plot holes through its answers or something, but you're just saying the most shallow things.

>>48571263
being in the umineko community has provided me a great understanding as to just how retarded the average internet user is

>>48571304
This post should being put as "The truth of all time".

I love Ange!!!

>>48571482
...said no one ever

>>48571550
I just said it.

>>48571556
Say it in red.

>>48571275
>Most people didn't
Most people are retards. Stories aren't written for retards. Do you tell everyone you meet your deepest darkest secrets, or only those you trust? That's what Sayo is operating on, and what Battler et al respects by not spilling her guts out to every Goat, including Ange.
>Giving the answers in the work
It DID give the answers IN THE WORK. You just wanted Ryukishi to give the answers *again*. That's a very different criticism.
>Beatrice even blames Ange, presumably because of what Ange did as a five year old
Beatrice apologies for writing the letters and causing distortion in Ange's future in the VN when they meet up in the Golden Land.
>which has a bunch of brainless fight scenes.
Yes, which I've criticized it for. What I'm criticizing the manga for is brainless "drama" scenes. See where I'm going with this? Ep8 isn't perfect but it's better than the manga.

>>48571598
>Meaningless fanservice. Might as well read a wikipedia entry listing "facts".

There's nothing meaningless about the characters actually reacting to the events of the narrative. It's the opposite of "just look at wikipedia". Making them act in unnatural ways to keep the secret is the whole problem with how R07 handled the VNs ending.

>But the story doesn't hide what she's reacting to, because we just read 7 chapters of it.

The problem is that she doesn't react. If the VN had stuff like Ange looking horrified at her parents when she first sees them after her breakdown I wouldn't be having this complaint. But all kinds of natural actions that should have happened towards the climax don't happen just in order to keep the secret going.

Like I said before, although Ange is the main issue Episode 8 is all about her development, this ends up bleeding into all characters. Compare Erika's confrontation with Battler in the VN with the manga, where in the manga she's actually allowed to react to the events of previous episodes, while in the VN they go on a pointless closed room debate. Because they can't actually talk about the story.

R07's whole "people will only derive enjoyment from finding the truth themselves, and just being told wouldn't feel satisfying ended up crippling the story itself when he had to make the characters themselves avoid touching on many relevant topics it'd deal directly with various facets of the truth. It's why Episode 8 in the VN feels so empty, while the manga is actually written as a proper conclusion.

>>48571667
>R07's whole "people will only derive enjoyment from finding the truth themselves, and just being told wouldn't feel satisfying"
This is true. The kinds of people that prefer the manga are simple-minded and believe things like "The culprit should have been revealed explicitly because Fanwikis and Youtube", as you both said yourselves outright. It's embarassing!
Ryukishi was right initially and wrong to spill the guts in the manga in an inelegant way. He never should have done it. I believe he did it because he thought the series was "over and done with forever" and wanted to forget about it, and wasn't expecting any kind of resurgence or new fans ever.

>ended up crippling the story itself when he had to make the characters themselves avoid touching on many relevant topics it'd deal directly with various facets of the truth.
The story does touch on relevant topics in the previous games, where they belong, not regurgitated in fake game-piece monologues where they all give the perfect tragic confession. The Natsuhi confrontation was more than enough. The manga chapter feels egregiously "covering all the bases" and even honestly moralizing, very unlike his natural writing, like he's forcing it to please readers. It does the story a disservice. There are flaws in Umineko and it doesn't do well to highlight it's strengths. The Golden Land isn't that kind of space. The stupid battle scenes are desu more fitting.

>>48571598
>Do you tell everyone you meet your deepest darkest secrets, or only those you trust? That's what Sayo is operating on, and what Battler et al respects by not spilling her guts out to every Goat, including Ange.
Sayo's secrets are responsible for leaving Ange an orphan, so Ange is in fact obligated to know the truth. It's not comparable to the Goats who have no skin in the game.
>You just wanted Ryukishi to give the answers *again*. That's a very different criticism.
Yes, because the refusal to acknowledge the answers causes cancerous effects on the characterization. But at least you're acknowledging that point now instead of hiding behind strawmen. Let's look at that:
>Beatrice apologies for writing the letters and causing distortion in Ange's future in the VN when they meet up in the Golden Land.
Yes. And she also gives some of the blame to Ange:
>Beatrice: "Mu. Put that way, it's a little irritating. You do have your share of the blame as well."
>Ange: "...Yeah, you're right. You were at fault, and so was I."
This bit is cut from the manga, since the idea of giving Ange blame for any of this is self-evidently psychotic.
>>48571749
>The manga chapter feels egregiously "covering all the bases" and even honestly moralizing, very unlike his natural writing,
How's it any more moralizing than the VN? You've yet to criticize the manga in a substantial way that doesn't boomerang right back at the VN.

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>>48571805
You're changing your criticisms now lol. First it was about not having the characters react more, now it's about the characters reacting *too much*!! Oh no, Beatrice blamed Ange for something! Beatrice did something very very bad and badong!!

This isn't a criticism of writing skill at all! You're just moralizing and saying Umineko is mean!! Pure bullshit! Stick to writing real criticisms if you want to be taken seriously as a critic, and not opine over how :((( saddddd it makes you that Ryukishi is "PSYCHOTIC" for blaming Ange for being a dipshit who killed herself, just like Sayo was. Maybe you also hated Episode 4's statement by Ange and how "I should've loved Eva and helped her...", because she was "victim-blaming" herself. Am I right? Did that disturb you too? Did you think it was "psychotic"? Do you think it was "BAD WRITING!!!"? Should there be a perfectly good white pure victim for you to relate to and feel empowered by that allll the game pieces say sorry to and tell you everything nice and good, or else it's bad writing?

Of course this is where your criticisms really come from, just like I said, you were using "writing flaws" as a disguise for "moral flaws". You can make a moral criticism against Ryukishi himself for criticizing depressed and suicidal people's decisions or for criticizing victims of abuse for their own ill actions, despite him also having empathy and understanding for them regardless. But that has nothing to do with *writing flaws*. Sorry, but try again!

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>>48571805
Not the other guy, but how do you read this as Beatrice meaningfully putting the blame on Ange in a psychotic way? It's very obviously like, kinda humorous magic world stuff that they can only do because they're in the Golden Land.

It's a sympathetic look at all of the characters involved, Ange is saying that she is at fault for her isolation because she spurned Eva reaching out to her as a mother figure and she believed random rumours that Eva was actually the one who murdered her family which drove her further and further into isolation, Beatrice takes the blame and says the forgers wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for her and that she's the one truly at fault.

Ange just completely 180s on what she said before and replies in a curt 'Oh yeah, I guess it is your fault after all.' manner (clearly a joke) and Beatrice gets annoyed and pouts and makes a funny noise, and then they continue talking and arrive at the conclusion that it's useless for them to squarely blame the other for the situation with Eva, Beatrice was at fault for laying the groundwork but Ange couldn't see the situation 'with love' and was isolated further and further because she forgot her family and chose to keep believing the public rumours that Eva was the murderer.

Do you really think this scene is like, a psychotic piece of writing? To me it's the culmination of the message of Umineko, no individual bears the weight of the entire fault and instead what happened was the result of collective sins, and if everyone was able to view the situation "with love" then none of it would have ever happened.

>>48571749
>"The culprit should have been revealed explicitly because Fanwikis and Youtube", as you both said yourselves outright.
Wanting natural reactions in the story is the opposite of the "because wikis and youtube say so" mindset. In fact, now I'm realizing this is just projection and it's what you're doing. You aren't engaging with my arguments about the emotional core of the story and how natural the characters' reactions and lines are but rather than that trying to deviate everything into neat wiki categories, so you don't even need to engage with the argument and can just dismiss them all as coming from "lesser" people.

>I believe he did it because he thought the series was "over and done with forever" and wanted to forget about it, and wasn't expecting any kind of resurgence or new fans ever.

He still was putting out new Umineko content by that point, so, nope (A couple of stories in The First and Last Gift in 2015 and then Saku in 2019)

>not regurgitated in fake game-piece monologues where they all give the perfect tragic confession.

Even if you think the dialogue wasn't handled as well as it should have been, the reaction that led to the dialogues definitely should have happened considering what the characters know.

>>48572043
>the reaction that led to the dialogues definitely should have happened considering what the characters know.
Different anon but, aren't the reactions different because what the characters know is different in the VN vs the manga? Been a while since I read it but isn't a big criticism that Ange doesn't start sobbing and crying over Rudolf and Kyrie in Ep 8 over them doing the murders - but the reality is that in the VN it's left intentionally ambiguous over whether or not it's the actual truth or whether or not it's just another possible catbox right? It feels like a case of the manga deliberately confirming stuff and prioritising character drama because it like ep 8 lacked that (which is fine and I probably agree) but it's not bad or unrealistic in the context of the VN, right?

>>48572208
I mean, that's my point. The VN leaves it ambiguous but Rudolf and Kyrie being behind it is clearly the explanation you're supposed to figure out (which is why it's used in the manga) but then she couldn't react becuase the VN wanted to keep the catbox ambiguous - even though -in character, her fall at that point happens because of the shock of opening the catbox. So, she definitely should know the truth, even if the reader wasn't made aware of it, but aside from the truth shocking her severely when she first glimpses it, there's no other reaction tied to it, even though naturally you'd think there'd be one. That's exactly the complaint I'm making about how the VN tries to keep the catbox closed. At a certain point, it sacrifices what should be natural characterization for that.

>>48571904
>First it was about not having the characters react more, now it's about the characters reacting *too much*!!
I can't help your reading comprehension, sorry.
>You're just moralizing and saying Umineko is mean!!
I'm fine with morally flawed works, EP 8's morality is just uninteresting. I can enjoy John Wayne westerns because they're so shameless about their racism and is an integral part of American culture. That's not the case for EP 8. "Serial killers who make use of government assets are entitled to privacy" isn't something anyone actually believes, its just something Ryukishi made up to give an in-story justification to hide the truth irl. Which itself isn't interesting, its just yet another creator being left in the dust by the progression of technology.
>>48571966
You're right that "psychotic" is too harsh, and that this specific scene has the same message as the manga. It just lacks teeth because we don't see how Ange processes learning the Single Truth, giving some whiplash when we get to the jokey magic world stuff. I don't see Umineko as a work solely concerned with themes, but also as one where we see the characters develop and are used to express those themes. The guy I'm talking to seems to have a "pieces in a gameboard" mindset where the characters are used solely for a specific end, which is something Umineko routinely criticizes.

>>48571212
Then what is Golden Thinking, the copiest of copes? And that doesn't address the very obvious moral implications of three timing your way through your cousins/nieces and nephews even though you didn't even have or want to do that because you wanted Chad. But I'll sum up what Umineko doesn't address emotionally, what never has proper cartharsis.

Innocent people died. Yasu is responsible. Her motivation was not only profoundly selfish, but profoundly retarded as well.

Yet the grand funeral of Yasu that is Chiru would have you think Jesus of Nazareth himself died, instead of Livia Soprano

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>Innocent people died. Yasu is responsible.

Don't argue with loveless atheists yayo

>>>48572293
>"Serial killers who make use of government assets are entitled to privacy" isn't something anyone actually believes
>>48572679
>Innocent people died. Yasu is responsible.
Ah, so you wanted some more moral judgements and proclamations that "Murdering people is wrong"? Some proper admonishment against Problematic Media/Content?
You wanted finger wagging at imaginary murders from imaginary characters in an imaginary world inside an imaginary game, that only exists in the mind of the imaginer?

No innocent people died because it's not real! Some apology on a manga page doesn't mean anything!! Characters don't really develop much in Umineko at all, they're fixed in place (because they're DEAD) other than Tohya - none of the characters can change, only more layers revealed for developments that already happened prior, and Ange can only really change if she chooses -NOT TO DIE-. The only real "development" we see is the Decades Later epilogue (which might also be fake too if she did end up as hamburger meat on the pavement).

Golden Thinking is free of trauma and drama and -reality-. That includes apologizing and judging or even -acknowledging-, just like the Halloween Party was free of any acknowledgement of the bad things the family had done other than behind Ange's back very minutely. For Ange at least, she's never going to get the big apology session, because they're all dead, and she probably is dead too. Rosa is never going to apologize and make it up to Maria. Maria indulging in some imaginary apology sessions where Rosa goes I'm so Sorry for Everything :(( won't heal her trauma, just like imagining murdering Rosa 1000 times won't make her feel any better, just like it didn't make Sayo feel better. It's not real, and abusers rarely ever make it up to their victims. Relying on a dream where your abuser apologizes to you isn't a real delusion, but still seeped in reality.

What Umineko is offering is instead -imagining the abuse never happened at all-.

It is an extreme philosophy that Ryukishi is taking to it's absolute limit. You complaining it's not being "real" enough with enough rationality or whatever just shows you didn't get the point at all. Umineko is thematically indulging maximally in DELUSION as an "ideology" without compromise, so it doesn't matter if it's not "what anyone actually believes". He himself does not fully subscribe to it as shown in other stories like Midori's. But Umineko as a work is supposed to explore that extreme fully. It's acknowledged to be slightly unnerving and even a bit insane as per Ange's unsettled reaction at the Halloween Party. And it's meant to genuinely give you a choice if this mentality is okay or not, with Magic vs Trick.

But that's the point. Kinzo going "HAPPPYYY HALLOWEEN!!! IM SORRY FOR BEING A RAPING OLD MISER MONSTER LITTLE ANGEEEE!! IM SORRY FOR RUINING POOR SAYOS LIFE!!!!!!! WAH WAH WAH!!" RUINS THE POINT. IT IS A GOLDEN LAND NOT AN INSTRUMENTALITY THERAPY SESSION. THE MANGA APOLOGY CHAPTER IS BAD AND FEELS LIKE WATCHING BOJACK HORSEMAN. I DONT LIKE IT.

>>48571589
Rimjob machine.

>>48573049
Oh, and imagining the characters as perfectly as Ange/Battler did at the very end, without whining about how "They need to apologize for their sins!!! Ange needs to react to trauma!! I need to see the explicit conflict!!" means that you yourself are rejecting the Golden Land, the golden land that could exist inside you if you let it. You can be Battler standing up from his wheelchair, or you can be an Erika and say it's not Real enough, even though it isn't fucking real at all, it's all a fake story imagined by a japanese nerd. You chose Trick end, which is fine too and there's nothing wrong with that morally. But Umineko VN lays it out very clearly and explicitly.

Umineko's most impressive quality is not it's plot, character development, mystery, or drama, or any specific character tragedy. It's how it maximally expresses it's central theme without compromise. The Manga holds back and compromises on it's central theme all to please the Plotfags (or "character development(ie plot)" fags) like yourself. And it's worse for it.

>>48571589
All the WTC girls should give rimjobs

>>48572238
>her fall at that point happens because of the shock of opening the catbox. So, she definitely should know the truth
But she doesn't fall, not even to miraculously get saved by tapestries like in Ep4, so she doesn't "know" the truth, and so she doesn't react, she instead has to try hard to "unknow".
Even in Saku it's danced around with and refused to be acknowledged, other than Ange going "Ah, fuck, I forgot, I apologize to all witches out there..." etc and thats it. All euphemisms and so on. Not like the manga where they all openly Talk About It, and why Piece was dangerous to Ange too. Battler and Beatrice get to live as some happy addams family husband and wife couple and that's the end of it. No acknowledgement.

>>48573304
i knew she was part of the italian conspiracy...

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what did ryukishi mean by this

Currently on episode 2 of Umineko and I'm so confused.
I just don't get it. Am I low IQ?
As far as I understand the fun battler trying to prove witches don't exist, but he's in the 4th wall watching himself and his family get killed by fucking demons that spawn from golden butterflies summoned at will. How can he possibly be arguing against magic?
The only way I see this work out is if this episode is just Beatrice proving she can do magic, but then what are the next 6 episodes going to be about.
Was something lost in translation here?

>>48573360
Any scenes that the Battler on the island isn't seeing aren't necessarily real and can be completely unreliable narrative.

R07 expected most readers to figure that out just reading Episode 2 by itself, but most people actually didn't, which caused him to heavily rewrite episode 3 to openly explain it there.

>>48573049
>Characters don't really develop much in Umineko at all, they're fixed in place (because they're DEAD) other than Tohya - none of the characters can change, only more layers revealed for developments that already happened prior, and Ange can only really change if she chooses -NOT TO DIE-.
Considering the contention is over Ange, this undercuts your point.
>Golden Thinking is free of trauma and drama and -reality-. That includes apologizing and judging or even -acknowledging-, just like the Halloween Party was free of any acknowledgement of the bad things the family had done other than behind Ange's back very minutely. For Ange at least, she's never going to get the big apology session, because they're all dead, and she probably is dead too.
Obviously false since even in the VN, Beatrice and Eva apologize to Ange. And I wouldn't describe stuff like Rudolf confessing to Kyrie "very minutely" even if it's behind Ange's back. You're basically saying "There's no confessions or apologies! Except for uh, all the ones that are there..." Which also undercuts your point about how dead characters don't develop.
>And it's meant to genuinely give you a choice if this mentality is okay or not, with Magic vs Trick.
That's not what that choice is about. Even in the Trick ending, Ange says she'll see her family again, dismisses the truth, and talks to Erika like she's an old buddy. In both endings Ange is "delusional", she just applies it in different ways. It's the Black Magic vs White Magic conflict from EP 4, where Eva-Beatrice dismisses Maria's candy magic as a trick.
>Umineko is thematically indulging maximally in DELUSION as an "ideology" without compromise, so it doesn't matter if it's not "what anyone actually believes".
Obviously I don't think this is Umineko's point, but even if it was, so what? A work committing to a theme doesn't necessarily make it good if the theme itself isn't interesting. To put it like this: who cares if the manga ruins the point if said point was worthless to begin with?

>>48573386
So why should I care about anything that Battler isn't seeing?
Why should I care about well-written scenes of character development between characters if I can't even be sure they're real?

>>48573542
Just because something isn't real doesn't mean it doesn't provide insight.

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Satoshi POV

>>48573570
You just know Shion keeps Satoshi locked up to keep him horny 24/7

>>48573542
>if I can't even be sure they're real?
Nothing in Umineko is real. It's a computer program telling a fake story about anime witches and incompetent dudes. But you care anyways, right? Umineko is about art so pay attention to why the stories are being told, not just what's being told in them. Every story in the world is a story about an author telling the story.

>>48573570
post more higu feet, im sick of these umi pseud faggots arguing

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>>48573570
hasn't this kid been through enough? R07 already doesn't want him to exist

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>>48573668
uryuu... don't let rosa see him...

>>48573668
>>48573706
Satoshi and Sakutarou caged up their cute bodies so kissable...

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>>48573049
>What Umineko is offering is instead -imagining the abuse never happened at all-.
I think I know what you're talking about, and you're misreading it. See pic related. That Rosa abused Maria isn't what's up for debate, what was up for debate was to what extent it happened and if Rosa truly loved Maria. Outright denying the abuse would be incoherent considering it was mentioned in Maria's diary even if framed as the work of the Black Witch.

Umineko only indulges in delusions to the extent that they're feasible to maintain. That's why the proto-Beatrice is Gaap: is there a big enough gap to fit your delusion? In that sense the manga shits on this by completely sealing off the tiny gap the VN left open. But that delusions are very much susceptible to compromise is the whole point of Chiru. Even in the magic ending, Ange lost hope of seeing Battler again. Even in this supposed "maximally delusional" ending, Ange doesn't reunite with Battler until she actually grows up and moves on.

I agree the VN can be read in a radical pro-escapist light if you ignore the finer details, which is probably why Ryukishi dropped all subtlety with the manga.

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>>48573654
Have some Rena

>>48573386
I think R07 expected Umineko's readers to mainly be Higurashi alumni, where the possibility of magic being unreliable narration would come more easily. But evidentially he was wrong about that. I think that's partially why the manga is more explicit about things like the Meta-World being real and the moral messaging since there would definitely not be the expectation of those readers being familiar with Higurashi

>>48566312
Fuck, I only now noticed it autocorrected Luci

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>>48573049
>Ah, so you wanted some more moral judgements and proclamations that "Murdering people is wrong"? Some proper admonishment against Problematic Media/Content?
>You wanted finger wagging at imaginary murders from imaginary characters in an imaginary world inside an imaginary game, that only exists in the mind of the imaginer?

You're reducing a legitimate thirst for justice to a cliche in the name of "novelty", which makes you just as much of a detached 1000 year old witch as Bern or Lambda. No, Yasu didn't just murder people, she toyed with their hearts, literally treating love as some sort of game.

Yes, this is a shitty enough thing to do that it cries out for cartharsis or addressment, but the whole way through we see it through an incredibly sympathetic lens that lacks respect and admiration for the other characters.

It's so mind boggingly tone deaf, especially since the infamous Goat battle sequence in Episode 8 is devoted to saying the people in Rokkenjima were not cliches but fully nuanced people

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Umineko 1-4 is more structurally sound than Chiru. Chiru forgoes structure in the name of a tenuous, meta inclined thesis. While Chiru is not so abstract as to be incomprehensible, as a reading experience it is much less satisfying than the base four episodes. Without Erika, it'd be completely insufferable.

>>48573336
biblical reference
>Song of Solomon 4:5
>Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins, which feed among the lilies.

>>48577349
I'm not as down on the EP 8 VN as others but yeah, this whole "the characters don't matter" stuff is just warping all of Umineko around cherry-picked scenes from EP 8. Why would the game reward you for doing well on the quiz through extra character moments if they don't matter?
The obvious obsession with "Admonishment against Problematic Content" comes off as using us to practice arguing with Tumblr users, as the manga is popular on there.

>>48577392
Umineko episodes 7-8 is the deepest work made since the 1800s

Oni, the Oryou manga got a new chapter 5 days ago and hasn't been translated yet. From looking at the raw, not much has happened although I don't know Japanese. It's kind of boring how it drags.

>>48577919
Can you explain what you mean with:
>The obvious obsession with "Admonishment against Problematic Content" comes off as using us to practice arguing with Tumblr users, as the manga is popular on there.

I'm writing this as someone that doesn't really understand what is going on.

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>>48566577
Taking a walk among the sunflower fields for their honeymoon!

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>>48578851
What else are lovers to do! They spent their youth in that village now it's time for them to get away and spend the next few months together away from everyone and everything...

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>>48578856
until...
*a shadow approaches*
>Wait... what do you mean ... the baby isn't... mine?!

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>>48578862
Surprise!
It's uncle Teppei!

>>48578864
>>48578862
>>48578856
>>48578851
This happened and is canon

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>>48578862
>>48578864
>Teppeicuck is also blacked cuck
makes sense

>>48578851
>>48578856
>>48578862
>>48578864
kek

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>>48578868
>>48578868
At least we know for sure it's this faggot behind the teppei posting now. Sad!

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>>48578864
I fucking clapped.

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>>48578851
>>48578856
Cute and Canon
>>48578862
>>48578864
>>48578868
>>48578877
'cord cuck shit

>>48578864
Troonppei would be the baby's grand aunt though, the uncle is Satoshi.

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Satoko calm down no need to rush to have another kid!! 0_0

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>>48566524
>>48566577
>>48578851
>>48578856
>>48578862
>>48578864
Masterpiece.

>ai allows for easy derailment of dumb shipposting
maybe it's not so bad...

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>>48578864

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>>48578862
Trans and non-canon.
>>48578867
>>48578869
>>48578878
>>48578896
>>48578893
The cord

>>48578862
>>48578864
lmao I love technology

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Oh my Mrs.Maebara...

>Samefagging this hard
Det you're actually cringe as fuck

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Keitarou and his mom :)

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>>48578895
>>48578908
I'll agree that it's fun as hell, but it just caused the mutt shipper to sperg out even more than usual.

>>48578893
Don't call Troonppei's dilator "the Master Piece".

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Increasing the Maebara-Houjou family!

>>48578908
>>48578925
Lmao, you are seething so hard, troon.

>>48578950
He's butthurt sperg deleted his cuck porn in kizuna lmao

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>it's yet another kizuna raid

>>48578954
Who is sperg?

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Normal morning in the Maebara household

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>>48578864
>>48578862

If you have any problems with my Satoko ai images send complaints to https://discord.gg/DE7pbKDp

>>48578956
It's the Beatrice discord actually.

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You're such a fucking loser

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>funny AI story about Satoppei
>nine (9) malding replies calling it cordshit when Satoko herself is the cord mascot
>>48578950
Who is seething again?

>>48578877
>>48578868
Ok, I'm reading SubaHibi just because of det

>>48578974
The samefag never ends

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>>48578983
Ignore the tourist, that was pretty funny for AIshit.

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Rent.
Free.

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He can never make anything original or come up with an idea on his own, makes since why he likes shitted so much since it's all about spamming shitty scribbles and edits over a original image. No wonder he loves AI so much it makes his cuck edits so much easier

>>48578992
His dick lives rent free inside Satoko's pussy

>>48578983
It's not SaTroonppei though, Troonppei just appears at the last scene.
>>48578991
>>48578983
>>48578992
Tranny seething.

>>48578992
my HERO

>>48578995
Cope, he will never be Keiichi!

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>>48578998
>>48578995
>>48578992
>>48578991
>>48578983
>>48578985
>Into shitted and ntr
What made IT like this???

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>makes since
>why he likes shitted so much
>edits over a original image

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>>48578977
Thanks for the kizuna invite bro

>>48579001
>>48578994
I honestly don't know why satocuck is like this

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They broke him again

>>48579001
>one (You)

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>>48578992
Trannies don't pay landlords, we know.
>>48578998
*heroine
Troonppei is trans.

>>48579004
>hello, I would like to order a portion of sushi
>Satoko, that's my dilatator...

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>>48579001
Don't worry umitroons like him don't live for long, only a matter of time till he's found hanging from his ceiling

GODppei broke (You)

Reminder that this KILLS the satokocuck
https://youtu.be/frlM13fGLHA [Embed]
>i-its le pachislot slop
Commit suicide this is canon

>>48579008
I'll be honest, the only value this ship has is annoying you and your tranny friend by posting Teppei. That's it. Literally nobody gives a shit about your "tRue loVE"

This general is filled with freaks, I guess I'll go somewhere else to ask about umineko

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>>48579019
ORA TEME! Satoppei is REAL and TRUE LOVE!!

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>>48579019
What an actual pathetic thing to say, guess it makes sense this is the mindset of someone who makes actual cuck edits and racecuck trash. You're such a fucking loser, have fun wasting your time making malding about these two

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>have fun wasting your time making malding about

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>>48579018
Rena status: SKULL BASHED
Satoko? Loved and protected
Livestream your suicide when it happens Renacuck!

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>>48579023
have fun wasting your time making malding about these two

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>>48579029
Ahh... the true love face

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>>48579029
>it's the same old translation we debunked last thread

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Completely broken LOL

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>>48579029
>Loved and protected
...down a bridge.

>>48577919
Bro a character quiz is no substitute for the needed cartharsis of Yasu being a shit head. The closest we get to anything even resembling that is the goofy "yeah i could totally dual wield winchesters" imagination scenes in Our Confessions.

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>>48579035
>Didn't read the VN
>>48579038
>Debunked by... uh here's this scene about Rena
>>48579040
>Said demon took the form of the one she loves most
LMAO
M
A
O

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>>48566577
Taking a walk among the sunflower fields for their honeymoon!

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>>48579039
Just like Satoko!

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>>48579051
What else are lovers to do! They spent their youth in that village now it's time for them to get away and spend the next few months together away from everyone and everything...

>>48578851
>>48579051
We've been there already, sister.

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One side just wants to post Satoko
The other side is a group of irony poisoned teenagers obsessed with cuck porn, sarcasam, and shitted edits

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what the fuck is going on here

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>>48579063
"Not if I have a say about this bozo!!"
"W-what did you say!!"

>>48579073
satocuck melty

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>>48578851
>>48578856
>>48578882
>>48578892
>>48578910
>>48578920
You'd think with how much time Keiichi and Satoko spend already she'd already be knocked up!

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>>48579074
"...no one takes my niece's hand until her aunt has a say in in understood boya?!"
"Have my regards best wishes and salutations from my dilatations!"
"Ohh aunt Troonppei!"

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>>48579073
blacked editor/cuck poster Detekt0r infamous from /vn/ is raiding this thread after getting his cuck porn deleted from a server he's in

>>48579080
>>48578882
>>48578994
>>48579018
>>48579006
>>48579092
>>48579080
>mion out of nowhere
Obsessed

>>48579084
Awww aunt Teppei is so wholesome!

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>he can't score a girl in real life so he spends his days masturbating to satoko in his mothers basement and self inserting as keiichi, defending her honor on an anonymous basket weaving forum using out of context lines

Who is a bigger schizo lolcow? Rikaschizo or Satocuck?

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>>48579081
Who said this is their first kid?

>>48579103
You will always be Keiichi however

This samefagging is painful to watch.

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>>48579103
Bizarre Rikacuck life projection but okay
Imagine being so chronically alone that you think you can only post about a ship if you want a girl LMAO

>>48579106
>Mion out of nowhere
You for sure, leave Mion out of your flame wars.

>>48579106
satocuck is still here, that is telling a lot about him

>>48579084
>>48579022
Is it safe to have a bleeding wound exposed like that?

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Her love makes the unlovable seethe!

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Meanwhile, Mr. and Mrs. Maebara are out for a picnic. Things really haven't changed since their days at school together...

>>48579123
SatoCuck is not real anon, Cuck doesn't love Satoko or even Keiichi for the matter.

It's good that rena and mion chads don't have to worry about this

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Mrs.Maebara and Mr.Maebara sitting together they're just so cuteeee

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>>48579022
It's called SaTroonppei, get it right, chud, or xir bleeding axe wound might not be so kind!

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>>48579141
SatokoGODs don't feel insecure enough like they do to make cuck porn at the mere sight of their ship lmao

>>48579138
Tell it to all these people taking it out on poor Mion.
>>48579080
>>48578882
>>48578994
>>48579018
>>48579006
>>48579092
>>48579080

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Remember when Rika and Keiichi got hitched? No one expected it... but they did work together to save the village. Maybe they bonded in the process...

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One of the greatest love stories of all time

>>48579150
More believable than KeiMii.

>>48579031
>this dilatation trap you made... it... fits? thank you satoko, you are the best niece a transfolx aunt could ask for
>aunt troonppei....
/pol/tards still haven't recovered from this affirming jewel.

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Sweet little bumble bee I know what you want from me~

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>>48578983
>Who is seething again?
You? Why else did you samefag 10 times cabron?

>>48579186
>5 posters consistently making fun of you in every thread
>le samefag!!11
nobody likes you. You dont belong here.

>satokocuck mindbroken by the combined might of renafags, mionfags and rikafags
Just wait until SHE gets her hands on the brat...

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>>48579186
Really pathetic eh?

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>>48579196
Why would Cuckfags go against SatokoCuck? You are not making any sense.

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Miii

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>>48579195
1 poster and his 9 trans yasuppei personalities consistently seething and dilating in every thread*
Fixed that for you, sis.

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>>48579208
Because even they realize that satokocuck is by far the most insufferable faggot to ever spam 07th threads. He just posts the same shitty old screencap and bases his entire headcanon on it. Mioncucks aren't remotely as insufferable.

>>48579219
SatokoCuck is not even a real poster, just a figment of your imagination because you obsessively hate cuck.
Pretty much every single yuri ship has been dead since Sotsu ended.

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>LET ME POST MY KEK PORN IN PEACE YOU FUCKING CHUD
There's an entire board where your kind is welcomed fucking loser you're not welcomed here >>>/trash/

>>48579208
I'd fuck this green cuck with the force of one thousand suns.

>>48579237
K1...

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Her smile saved millions

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>MY KEK PORN

>>48579241
Rika...

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Can you absolute faggots keep your shit flinging confined to your discord instead of street shitting like we're in India?

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Cute and Canon!

Really? The screenshot from the VN where Satoko confesses to Keiichi was what triggered this samefagging meltdown?
I don't have it saved on my phone, someone post it, I want to see the sperg samefag some more.

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TRUE LOVE WONNN

>>48579255
she confessed to K1 about her love for Teppei here >>48578862
>>48578864

>>48579267
kino

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>>48579255
This scene BROKE them for years to come

>>48579267
She quite literally only said "surprise it's uncle treppei" in what you linked, it's an image set where she is pregnant with K1's kid, there's a limit to how much of an ESL you can be.

>>48579272
You were supposed to samefag seethe after the VN screenshot was posted not before.

>>48579280
>reading comprehension: American

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>>48579250
Did somebody say "lunch"?

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>>48579284
No, he's not a yankee, he is Moroccan.
Thought considering how inbred africans are maybe "it's my uncle" is actually how you say I love you in arab.

>>48579275
>I l-loved you!
Crazy how people are defending the trannyslation that assumes Satoko would stutter when saying 'you are my friend'.

>>48579305
Fucking retard she nearly died earlier and has been walking around for hours in a towel. It's probably cold as fuck outside, her whole system is in shock. The physical symptoms are why she's stuttering, not because she's "in love"

>>48579308
>reading comprehension: Aryan

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>>48579308
sorry I never actually read the VN teehee!

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>>48579308
>goes on a long rambling about getting beaten up and being cursed without stuttering stuttering
>the only word she stutters is "loved"
>'m-maybe there was a bit of chill on the bridge right when she said that exact word'
LMAO
I'm truly speechless

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>>48579308
>It's probably cold as fuck outside
>In the middle of the hottest day of the summer as said by Keiichi when heading to Satoko's house
Read the fucking VN already

>>48579322
He's Moroccan not a fucking Pajeet.
>>48579330
Umibro...

>>48573654
>>48573570
i take back what I said these higurashi shippers are ten times worse

>>48579351
>telling a PoC to read
Reported for racism and ableism.

>>48579371
>shippers
>plural
Anon, I...

>>48579375
Active shippers
KeiRena
SatoKei
KeiShii
SatoShii

Dying shippers
SaTroonppei
KeiRika

Dead shippers
SatoRika
KeiCuck

>>48579407
Actually you forgot RenaCuck

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Funny the 10 samefagging posters always appear and disappear when Troonppeifag joins and leaves. Almost as if it was coordinated from a chatroom.

Why this

>>48579373
It's "ordering a PoC to read" or "asking a PoC to read" in this case, eslbro.

>>48579461
I can't believe there are copyright restrictions on the verb to tell.

>>48578837
Tumblr criticizes media for promoting immoral views, which is what this guy is projecting onto us. He's basically saying we're sensitive pussies who just want to see Ange get therapy. But no one on 4chan cares about if art is promoting good morals, it's just a matter if the art is good. But in this case, he's just plain wrong about what EP 8 is even saying.

>>48579457
see 48579219
tl;dr bridge scene screenshot caused a boo boo