I don’t know why, but I feel a bit unsafe with backing this. Which is why I reduced my pledge to the 100 yen pledge. I have backed a lot of things, which is why my insecurities with this feel so strange. I think it might just be because the game, even in its basic form, is just too expensive.
Mark CashmanSuperbacker
4 days left. I still urge people to reduce their pledges to £1 for the time being (you can still get the game through the pledge manage after ). I know people dont want to lose their early bird with the vast saving you get from it .This however, is still one of the red flags for me. They know people dont want to lose it so will stick with their pledges.
I'll be leaving the campaign soon as I think i've given as much warning about this campaign as I can.
For new backers please remember, its a lot of money to invest in a game with hardly any information about it. At best you'll get some nice miniatures, but thats about it. If you even get that.
I hope i'm proven wrong and the game delivers, and its amazing and so are the components, however, i'm very doubtful of this.
If ICREA handle this campaign good from the start, we may have pass the 2500 backer stretch goal already, with this rate, I dont think we will reach 2000 backers.
Don't let it be, “strain at a camel and swallow a gnat".
AJ Gore
Lowered my pledge to ¥100 (So there's another early bird up for grabs).
There's nothing inherently wrong with less kickstarter-experienced people looking to crowd fund a game. But when you're asking for this much money & ignoring this much feedback, you can't blame people for being cautious. The poor communication, not listening to feedback, & the fact that you outright lied about how ready this product is (rules are on revision 11 AND 1st draft, but STILL need to be reviewed by Atlus/Sega?) people are understandably frustrated.
While securing funding through kickstarter might seem low-risk (compared to traditional means) you are directly engaging with your consumers, which opens you up to a level of scrutiny you would otherwise not have to deal with. If this project goes poorly, be prepared to carry a very bad reputation (especially among the boardgame community, who have a LOT of experience with designers/publishers looking to exploit crowdfunding for easy money).
I still have a question from 9 days ago that was left unanswered. You have answered all my questions except for that one so may I ask why that one was ignored?
As for these new updates I have a couple more questions I hope you could answer:
1- you say in the 8th update that the 1st revision of the rulebook is done. But in previous comments you said the game is on the 11th revision within 3 years. Can you elaborate on the 11th revision vs 1st draft?
2- In the 7th update you have altered the stretch goals. You have also said in the 8th update "other components" that specifications are dependant on unlocked stretch goals. You have said in a previous comment that you have additional stretch goals past 2500 backers but have not given any additional information on these hidden goals. How many additional stretch goals do you have past the 3rd tier or 2500 backers?
3- we have been between 1800-1900 backers for a very long time. With only a couple days left until campaign ends it is not likely we are to get the additional backers needed to unlock the revealed stretch goals. This is disappointing as ¥100,000,000 is a huge milestone for kickstarter that not many campaigns can achieve. I would hate to miss out on the missing stretch goals so would you consider unlocking all stretch goals once the campaign ends?
4- Because you said this is the first draft does that mean you are still working on the game rules or are they close to complete?
Are you looking for community feedback on the rules?
Or do you know what you want included in the rules and don't want community feedback for the rules?
5- a lot of the information given at the start of the campaign such as manufacturing start date or shipping date or rules change etc. Has been altered. Did you know going into the campaign this would happen?
Is there a reason the campaign began before everything was finalised?
Or was everything finalised before campaign but new information happened during the campaign that caused rules and dates to be altered?
Thank you again for the updates. I hope you look over this question and can help me understand by answering my questions.
Mark CashmanSuperbacker
'First draft of the rulebook'........dear lord....I wish I could convince more people to be more cautious:(
Still 5 days to go though...who knows.. ..maybe there will be a Christmas miracle...
Ian MacColl
I'm honestly shocked they gave this shoddy company the rights to their IP. I wouldn't even trust them to run a bath let alone a KS campaign.
Tais la Cour
The dead cell kickstarter got more money…..
Ian MacColl
So the stretch goals are still backer based and not funding. There's mere days left, you honestly think you'll get enough to unlock them, you won't. Did you actually spend ectra months making more stretch goals (cause you don't seem that bothered we won't ever get them) or did you fake it and hope it'd generate more hype.
Furthermore you stated you've sent the rulebook off for review, why the hell would you start a campaign when the rules to a board game haven't been finalised. That just screams we're desperate for your money.
Either A they approve them and it doesn't do their reputation any good approving such a bland board game. Or B they demand a whole heap of changes and more complexity, I.e skills, affinities, inclusion of player reason for the new world, etc. And if so that would add who knows how long onto development.
Nickollas Nunes
So, the dice has been unlocked… This…. Man….. Ooff…. I don’t even know what to say. To me the number one type of backer here is the scalper looking to buy this game and sell it 5 years from now as the “rare Shin Megami Tensei Board game with 70 minis”. Just sell the minis as a separate product please, this boardgame clearly won’t work.
Everyone wanted monetary numbered stretch goals so they're at least obtainable, not the stretch goals to be kept as backer count. People are leaving because this is one of the worst campaigns ran on this site. Please cancel the project and do better.
I bumped my pledge to a dollar, and will cancel soon. This does not give me a good feeling, and the gameplay seems...off. All of this should have been addressed, and if this was a pro company, they would have someone in here working in English. This does not scream the usual Japanese quality I am used to.
So does your copy-and-paste response to my previous comment and to others mean you won't add English subtitles so people can properly understand what is going on in the game? Also, please don't take another 4 days to respond to this by needing to ask a manager to approve a simple response. A simple "Yes" or "No" in regards to adding subtitles to the video BEFORE the campaign ends will suffice. This isn't a dangerous topic like mentioning another company's name.
This is a make-it-or-break-it point for me to see if I will cancel my pledge before the campaign ends because understanding a game (like how to play) is crucial for me to buy a game. I don't buy a game hoping that I will hopefully like a game. I want to have a pretty good idea if it's something I may actually actually enjoy or not especially because this game is a very expensive game.
Ian MacColl
Given that they said they would reconsider stretch goals mere days into the campaign, and the other day they commented saying they are still considering them and to just give them time it's clear they are just trying to keep people interested until they can run out the clock. They've done the bare minimum throughout the whole project, so it's safe to say no they won't add subtitles. Given the actual video, recruiting demons would eventually become boring as you'd memorise the answers to the cards, and the whole 3-4 hour game leads to just rolling dice and comparing numbers, which involves no strategic thinking, purely luck, and is incredibly boring. They've seriously spent years on the rules for this game? It seems so slap dash.
Mark CashmanSuperbacker
I honestly don't think they care at all. As long as they secured those 1000 early bird backers....they are happy . In fact they have nearly doubled that. So they are laughing all the way to the bank.
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I don’t know why, but I feel a bit unsafe with backing this. Which is why I reduced my pledge to the 100 yen pledge. I have backed a lot of things, which is why my insecurities with this feel so strange. I think it might just be because the game, even in its basic form, is just too expensive.
4 days left. I still urge people to reduce their pledges to £1 for the time being (you can still get the game through the pledge manage after ). I know people dont want to lose their early bird with the vast saving you get from it .This however, is still one of the red flags for me. They know people dont want to lose it so will stick with their pledges.
I'll be leaving the campaign soon as I think i've given as much warning about this campaign as I can.
For new backers please remember, its a lot of money to invest in a game with hardly any information about it. At best you'll get some nice miniatures, but thats about it. If you even get that.
I hope i'm proven wrong and the game delivers, and its amazing and so are the components, however, i'm very doubtful of this.
残り 4 日。私は、当面の間、寄付額を 1 ポンドに減らすことを引き続き推奨します (その後も寄付管理を通じてゲームを入手できます)。早期割引で大幅な節約ができるので、人々はそれを失いたくないのはわかっています。しかし、これは私にとって依然として危険信号の 1 つです。人々はそれを失いたくないことを知っているので、寄付は続けます。
このキャンペーンについてはできる限りの警告をしたと思うので、すぐにキャンペーンを終了します。
新しい支援者は、ほとんど情報のないゲームに投資するには多額のお金であることを忘れないでください。せいぜい、素敵なミニチュアが手に入りますが、それだけです。それさえ手に入るかどうかはわかりません。
私が間違っていて、ゲームが期待に応えてくれることを願っています。ゲームは素晴らしく、コンポーネントも素晴らしいですが、私はこれに非常に疑問を感じています。
現在アーリーバード空き19
出資総額¥100,059,288
まもなく一億切りますね。
出資総額¥99,990,388
一億切りました。
ICREAさんは製品に自信があるなら、一旦やり直すべきですよ。
悲しいことですが、我々はクラウドファンディングと向き合うにあたってあることを考えなければならない時代に生きています……つまり、どれぐらいの数の転売屋が出資者の顔をして紛れているのかということです（ポケモンカードを売っているお店に勤めたりお客として並んだことのある人にはわかるでしょう）。彼らはいつでも楽に儲けられる商品を求めています。軽子坂高校ウイスキーでさえすでに高値で転売されています。
しかし、このことは同時に一つの指標を我々に与えてくれます。沈没しかかっている船から逃げるネズミのように、彼らは儲かりそうでなければすぐ引き上げます。仕入れ値が2割も違えば儲けは相当大きくなりますが、そんなことは完全な損に比べれば大した問題ではないのです。
今すでにアーリーバードに16個の空きがあります。転売屋が手をつけずに置かれている10個以上の人気商品です。つまり、転売屋でさえも逃げ出しつつあるのです。バックした人たちがこの事態に気付けることを願います。
出遅れて来たのですが、アーリープレッジにこの段階で入れられることに衝撃を受けました。Kickstarterは初めてですが、相当深刻な状況なのだと判断し100円にしておきました。
元々はミニチュアがほしかっただけでしたが、ゲームができるなら当然そちらのクオリティも気になりますし、ゲームのクオリティはミニチュアのクオリティにも相関するのではないかと思います。どちらもデザイナーの評判が悪かったり経験が不足したりしているのに堂々と広報を打っているところ、これまでのアップデート対応等からは企業の理解度の低さも透けて見えますし。
当然成功してほしい思いですが、Noを突きつけて再挑戦してもらうこともIPを守るために必要と考えます。
アーリーバードでもそうじゃなくても1ミニチュア換算すれば100円程度の差額なので、アーリーバードに飛び付かず事態を最後まで見守ろうと思います。
If ICREA handle this campaign good from the start, we may have pass the 2500 backer stretch goal already, with this rate, I dont think we will reach 2000 backers.
様子見に来たら2回も更新されてやっと出直しの話なのかと期待しましたが、なんですかこの冗談みたいな更新。
ルールがver11が出来ていると言ってたのがver1に話が変わってて、色々と延期になる上に見直すストレッチゴールがダイスだけ...
こんなふざけた内容だから3日後を待たず離脱者が出てきましたね。
最早残っているであろう3日後にキャンセルする人を除いた転売ヤーが哀れに思えてきました、爆死確定な上にプロジェクトが放棄された日にはね(笑)
I wish the project success.
Don't let it be, “strain at a camel and swallow a gnat".
Lowered my pledge to ¥100 (So there's another early bird up for grabs).
There's nothing inherently wrong with less kickstarter-experienced people looking to crowd fund a game. But when you're asking for this much money & ignoring this much feedback, you can't blame people for being cautious. The poor communication, not listening to feedback, & the fact that you outright lied about how ready this product is (rules are on revision 11 AND 1st draft, but STILL need to be reviewed by Atlus/Sega?) people are understandably frustrated.
While securing funding through kickstarter might seem low-risk (compared to traditional means) you are directly engaging with your consumers, which opens you up to a level of scrutiny you would otherwise not have to deal with. If this project goes poorly, be prepared to carry a very bad reputation (especially among the boardgame community, who have a LOT of experience with designers/publishers looking to exploit crowdfunding for easy money).
申し訳ありません機械翻訳:
寄付金を 100 円に下げました (つまり、もう 1 つの早期購入者が手に入るということです)。
Kickstarter の経験が少ない人がゲームのクラウドファンディングを試みること自体に問題があるわけではありません。しかし、これだけの金額を要求し、これだけのフィードバックを無視しているのであれば、慎重になる人々を責めることはできません。コミュニケーション不足、フィードバックに耳を傾けない、この製品がどの程度完成しているかについて完全に嘘をついたこと (ルールは改訂版 11 と 1 回目のドラフトにありますが、それでも Atlus/Sega によるレビューが必要です) により、人々がイライラするのは当然です。
Kickstarter を通じて資金を確保することは (従来の方法と比較して) リスクが低いように思えるかもしれませんが、消費者と直接関わることになるため、通常は対処する必要のないレベルの精査を受けることになります。このプロジェクトがうまくいかなかった場合、非常に悪い評判がつくことを覚悟してください (特に、クラウドファンディングを利用して簡単にお金を稼ごうとするデザイナーや出版社を数多く経験しているボードゲーム コミュニティでは)。
女神転生の大ファンです！
アーリープレッジにいち早く申し込みました。海外の方も大勢参加されていて、幅広くファンの皆様が世界中にいるんだなあと感心する中、過程で色々と不安な声が多くせっかくのアーリープレッジの支援者も数が減ってしまったりで寂しいですが、どれだけ納期が遅れても良いので、素敵なものが届くと信じて、キャンセルはせず、楽しみに待っています！キャンセルしない48000円は、そして60000円は、私の、みなさんの、「プロジェクトがうまくいきますように！」という「想い」だと思ってます。このまま皆さんの支援が続けば今の時点で300%は達成しているし、追加の特典も全部欲しいなあ！キラカードは皆んな大好き！追加悪魔も絶対ほしい！応援してます！
翻訳：
私もそう思うのですべてうまくいくことを祈っていますが、低品質な商品への巨大な投資に大量の赤信号が灯っています。（私はフィギュア関連で低品質だと言っているのではありません、彼らがお金を集めようとしているゲームそれ自体とこれまでの経緯のためです）
幸運を、それこそあなたが必要とするものでしょう。
彼らは適当に謝罪することでコミュニケーションをおしまいにし、あらゆるコメントを無視しています。我々がいうべき『がんばれ』の言葉として成立するのは、ただ出資額を100円に下げるかキャンセルすることだけです。
これに盲目になってお金を突っ込まないでください。
これはあなたについてではないので個人的なこととして受け止めないでください……すべての出資者に対してです。
そして個人的に付け加えるなら、彼らはすでに一億円を超えるお金を集めているのにホログラム一つ付けられないと言っていることについてよく考えてください。ポケモンをはじめとするトレーディングカードの相場で感覚がマヒしているかもしれませんが、実際ホログラム加工はそんなにお金がかかることではありません。
加えて言うなら、春節（工場がある中国のお正月）に10万個を超えるフィギュアの発注を出して4月に出資者に届けようというのは嘘を言っているのでなければ狂気の沙汰です。（あなたがイクリエの回し者でなければ）
大ファンで応援したい気持ちわかりますが、この出来の悪さで言えばファンとして寧ろこの暴挙を止めさせようとするもんではないですか？
フィギュアだけで4.8万+送料で良いと思うなら止めないですけど、ボードゲームとして考えているなら止めた方が良いと思いますよ。動画で見る限り本当に酷い出来の悪さですから。
自分も女神転生のボードゲームは出来るのは凄く嬉しい事ですけど、この出来の悪さは寧ろシリーズに対するマイナスでしかありませんから、製作者達にはこのままの不完全な出来の悪い物を押し通すのではなく、しっかりと準備した上で出直して欲しいです。
Thank you for the updates.
I still have a question from 9 days ago that was left unanswered. You have answered all my questions except for that one so may I ask why that one was ignored?
As for these new updates I have a couple more questions I hope you could answer:
1- you say in the 8th update that the 1st revision of the rulebook is done. But in previous comments you said the game is on the 11th revision within 3 years. Can you elaborate on the 11th revision vs 1st draft?
2- In the 7th update you have altered the stretch goals. You have also said in the 8th update "other components" that specifications are dependant on unlocked stretch goals. You have said in a previous comment that you have additional stretch goals past 2500 backers but have not given any additional information on these hidden goals. How many additional stretch goals do you have past the 3rd tier or 2500 backers?
3- we have been between 1800-1900 backers for a very long time. With only a couple days left until campaign ends it is not likely we are to get the additional backers needed to unlock the revealed stretch goals. This is disappointing as ¥100,000,000 is a huge milestone for kickstarter that not many campaigns can achieve. I would hate to miss out on the missing stretch goals so would you consider unlocking all stretch goals once the campaign ends?
4- Because you said this is the first draft does that mean you are still working on the game rules or are they close to complete?
Are you looking for community feedback on the rules?
Or do you know what you want included in the rules and don't want community feedback for the rules?
5- a lot of the information given at the start of the campaign such as manufacturing start date or shipping date or rules change etc. Has been altered. Did you know going into the campaign this would happen?
Is there a reason the campaign began before everything was finalised?
Or was everything finalised before campaign but new information happened during the campaign that caused rules and dates to be altered?
Thank you again for the updates. I hope you look over this question and can help me understand by answering my questions.
'First draft of the rulebook'........dear lord....I wish I could convince more people to be more cautious:(
Still 5 days to go though...who knows.. ..maybe there will be a Christmas miracle...
I'm honestly shocked they gave this shoddy company the rights to their IP. I wouldn't even trust them to run a bath let alone a KS campaign.
The dead cell kickstarter got more money…..
So the stretch goals are still backer based and not funding. There's mere days left, you honestly think you'll get enough to unlock them, you won't. Did you actually spend ectra months making more stretch goals (cause you don't seem that bothered we won't ever get them) or did you fake it and hope it'd generate more hype.
Furthermore you stated you've sent the rulebook off for review, why the hell would you start a campaign when the rules to a board game haven't been finalised. That just screams we're desperate for your money.
Either A they approve them and it doesn't do their reputation any good approving such a bland board game. Or B they demand a whole heap of changes and more complexity, I.e skills, affinities, inclusion of player reason for the new world, etc. And if so that would add who knows how long onto development.
So, the dice has been unlocked… This…. Man….. Ooff…. I don’t even know what to say. To me the number one type of backer here is the scalper looking to buy this game and sell it 5 years from now as the “rare Shin Megami Tensei Board game with 70 minis”. Just sell the minis as a separate product please, this boardgame clearly won’t work.
それで、サイコロがアンロックされました…これは…うわぁ…うわぁ…何と言っていいかわかりません。私にとって、ここでの一番の支援者は、このゲームを購入し、5年後に「70個のミニチュア付きレアな真・女神転生ボードゲーム」として販売しようとしている転売屋です。ミニチュアを別製品として販売してください。このボードゲームは明らかにうまくいきません。
I think icrea’s team want to do such a job by themselves… they stated only for KS. Some rebounding can be done by staffs…
あるいは彼らイクリエのチーム自体がそれを狙っているのかもしれません。キックスターター以外で販売しないと明言しているので。
本日付のアップデートについて。
『ルールブックは権利元監修用の初稿がすでに完成しており』とのことですが、それは完成と呼べるものではありません。同人誌でさえ入稿して印刷物が仕上がって初めて完成です。『バージョン11を以てルールは完成した』とのコメントとも矛盾します。そもそも権利元であるアトラスにすら提出できていないなら、仕事は何一つ済んでいないと同義です。
Everyone wanted monetary numbered stretch goals so they're at least obtainable, not the stretch goals to be kept as backer count. People are leaving because this is one of the worst campaigns ran on this site. Please cancel the project and do better.
現在バッカー数：1887人(2日前比 -13)
新規：922人(-12)
経験者：965人(-1)
日本人：1,108人(前日比 -7)
出資総額：¥101,207,906
明らかに出資額が減ってますね。
慌てて2件アップデートを入れてきましたが、やはり以前から最低でも概要を文面で出せと催促されているルールの提示はありません。
また質問を送ったdiscord仲間によれば一週間返信がないままとのこと。やはり資金を集めて逃げ切った上で出資者が忘れるのを待つプランと見て間違いな上のでしょう。
動画ではなく文面で出せと言われているのは
『そもそもプレイスルー動画が低品質すぎる上前半後半で言語が違うのに字幕もない』
『クラウドファンディング最終日までフィギュアのサンプルを貸し出して手元にないこと、すでにルールは完成と豪語しておりブラッシュアップの予定もないことから、読みやすく翻訳も容易な文章形式で提出するのは容易であるはず』
という理由からです。
残り一週間を切りましたが、ルールもフィギュアの概算見積もりも未だ提出されていません。
こうしてアップデートが提示された以上は質問への返信も可能だということでしょうから、discordに返信が来た旨の報告が上がるのを楽しみにしております。
I bumped my pledge to a dollar, and will cancel soon. This does not give me a good feeling, and the gameplay seems...off. All of this should have been addressed, and if this was a pro company, they would have someone in here working in English. This does not scream the usual Japanese quality I am used to.
私はまだ応援してますよ！
製作頑張ってください！
stretch goals hahahaha 😅
+1
新規参加の方へプレッジの管理の所に書いてある下記を今一度目を通しておいて下さい。
バック (支援) とは購入することではありません。
誰かのクリエイティブな取り組みをサポートすることを意味します。
Kickstarter は普通のお店とは全く異なる存在です。Kickstarter ではプロジェクトの保証やクリエイターの能力審査はしておりません。プロジェクト上でクリエイターが主張している内容を含め、プロジェクトを約束通り完了させる全責任はクリエイターにあります。
【アカウンタビリティについて詳しくみる】←ここをよく読んで今一度このプロジェクトを支援するか判断して下さい。
もしファンディングゴールが達成されたとして、クリエイターの対応が真摯に向き合ってくれるのか信頼性に難がありそうだなと僕個人は感じていますのでキャンセルしますが、皆さんも残り少ない期間でしっかり考えて支援するかキャンセルするか決められると良いかと思います。
Just lower your pledge to 100 yen ($1). If you cancel it entirely your post warning people will be removed.
キックトラックの記録によると、プレッジの金額は徐々に下降しつつあるようです。
残り一週間を切った現在ですが、フィギュアの見積もりを取る手段も、ルールに関する新動画を取る手段も彼らの手元にはありません。必要なサンプルが全て東京フィギュアギャラリーにあり、しかも最終日まで展示が続くからです。
またルールに関しても、この約一か月を通して再三求められたにもかかわらず提示がありません。残りの日数で可能な限りの人たちが支援を取りやめるか100円／1ドルに下げてくれる機会があることを願うばかりです。
まあ、新規支援者の中にどれだけ転売屋が混じっているかはわかりませんが……
追記：支援を入れていたボードゲームスペースの経営者が支援取り止めのポストをしていました。
商品として導入を検討するにはあまりにも信頼がおけないということのようです。
更に追記。現在時点でイクリエの担当者は二日間ログインしていません。
So does your copy-and-paste response to my previous comment and to others mean you won't add English subtitles so people can properly understand what is going on in the game? Also, please don't take another 4 days to respond to this by needing to ask a manager to approve a simple response. A simple "Yes" or "No" in regards to adding subtitles to the video BEFORE the campaign ends will suffice. This isn't a dangerous topic like mentioning another company's name.
This is a make-it-or-break-it point for me to see if I will cancel my pledge before the campaign ends because understanding a game (like how to play) is crucial for me to buy a game. I don't buy a game hoping that I will hopefully like a game. I want to have a pretty good idea if it's something I may actually actually enjoy or not especially because this game is a very expensive game.
Given that they said they would reconsider stretch goals mere days into the campaign, and the other day they commented saying they are still considering them and to just give them time it's clear they are just trying to keep people interested until they can run out the clock. They've done the bare minimum throughout the whole project, so it's safe to say no they won't add subtitles. Given the actual video, recruiting demons would eventually become boring as you'd memorise the answers to the cards, and the whole 3-4 hour game leads to just rolling dice and comparing numbers, which involves no strategic thinking, purely luck, and is incredibly boring. They've seriously spent years on the rules for this game? It seems so slap dash.
I honestly don't think they care at all. As long as they secured those 1000 early bird backers....they are happy . In fact they have nearly doubled that. So they are laughing all the way to the bank.
Minimum effort relying on the ip. Maximum reward.
So sad really. :(