How do you rank the SaGa games? And where do you think sagaeme will fit?

You can do a list or tiers or whatever you feel is most appropriate, but I'd like to know how you rank all the SaGa games and where you think Emerald Beyond will land based on first impressions with the demo. Of course we all know it will change later :)

Here's my tier list. It's based on how much I enjoy them, not how good I think they are (for example Unlimited SaGa I think is a very flawed and unfinished game, but it's still my favorite).

S: Romancing SaGa 2, Unlimited SaGa, Scarlet Grace
A: SaGa 1, SaGa 2, Minstrel Song, Imperial SaGa
B: SaGa 3, Romancing SaGa 3, SaGa Frontier
C: Re;univerSe
D: Goddess of Destiny, Romancing SaGa, Emperors SaGa, Eclipse

Haven't played enough to judge: Shadow or Light (Never played. I know, I know.), SaGa Frontier 2 (I've played it quite a bit but it was long ago and I don't have a good feel for it on my head)

Note that each tier is not in the order I like them, just the order they came to my head while listing lol.

From the demo, I could easily see Emerald Beyond being at least an A for me. It does a LOT of things I really like so far. But it may just be the hype talking -- maybe it will fall flat. Or maybe it will squeeze up into my top 3 :) We'll have to see.

Also note my opinions change rapidly lmao. So if you've seen me make a tier list on another board or something it's probably different now.

Hey there Ness! Glad to see you around! I don’t go on twitch as much these days but I enjoyed your Unlimited Saga streams, and you really helped me appreciate that game!

1. Saga Frontier - I love the scenario stories in this game. They are so fun! I love every story for different reasons. And the game can be completed pretty quickly. This was my first Saga
2. Romancing Saga Minstrel Song - Mechanically very satisfying battle system, excellent high quality graphics and music. One of the more polished Sagas with proper tutorials in game. Takes a slight hit in replayability given how long the game is just for one scenario.
3. Unlimited Saga - in terms of originality, this game really takes the cake. Battle system really does some interesting things you won’t see anywhere else. Characters have skills you can use to deal with environmental hazards and traps like a TTRPG. I wish it was easier to find magic and I don’t like smithing much(you don’t need to save/reload but it’s an alluring trap… especially for getting magic tablets…). Takes some real skill and strategy to build your characters. Brilliant game with beautiful maps and music and very fun gameplay.. extremely misunderstood
4. Romancing Saga 2 - the multi-generation gameplay is really unique and brilliant
5. Romancing Saga 3 - Just a fun game with a unique cast of characters. Probably one of the most iconic minigames is ‘capitalism’. It’s got others as well. Has a lot less unique content between different starting characters though. Minstrel Song also has this problem kind of.
6. Scarlet Grace - Really good strategic combat. I do miss being able to actually explore dungeons. In this game you only explore the world map and battle screens. Once you get used to it though, it’s a blast. It’s almost more of a tactical game than many tactical RPGs I’ve played despite it technically being turn-based…? I also get really lost in this game haha.

Emerald Beyond feels more like Scarlet Grace but with a few twists. I think it is great so far. Exploration feels little bit more varied than Scarlet Grace as you do have areas you can explore like dungeons. Still not totally sure how it delivers on the ‘non-linearity’ front. It’s supposedly a game changer in that regard, but I don’t know exactly why yet lol.

These games are all A or S tier for me, except for maybe RS3 which I rate slightly lower for some reason. I haven’t played SaGa 1/2/3 or the mobile game or anything else yet really. Many of them like Eclipse or Imperial Saga I’ve never even heard of!

S: SaGa Frontier, Romancing SaGa 2, Minstrel Song
A: Scarlet Grace, Emerald Beyond(maybe higher we will see), Romancing SaGa 3
E: SaGa Frontier 2
F: Unlimited SaGa

unfortunately i couldnt play shadow of light as it keeps crashing on my 3ds. idk if i should get a new version for it or not.

NessEggman posted...

You can do a list or tiers or whatever you feel is most appropriate, but I'd like to know how you rank all the SaGa games and where you think Emerald Beyond will land based on first impressions with the demo. Of course we all know it will change later :)

Here's my tier list. It's based on how much I enjoy them, not how good I think they are (for example Unlimited SaGa I think is a very flawed and unfinished game, but it's still my favorite).

S: Romancing SaGa 2, Unlimited SaGa, Scarlet Grace
A: SaGa 1, SaGa 2, Minstrel Song, Imperial SaGa
B: SaGa 3, Romancing SaGa 3, SaGa Frontier
C: Re;univerSe
D: Goddess of Destiny, Romancing SaGa, Emperors SaGa, Eclipse

Haven't played enough to judge: Shadow or Light (Never played. I know, I know.), SaGa Frontier 2 (I've played it quite a bit but it was long ago and I don't have a good feel for it on my head)

Note that each tier is not in the order I like them, just the order they came to my head while listing lol.

From the demo, I could easily see Emerald Beyond being at least an A for me. It does a LOT of things I really like so far. But it may just be the hype talking -- maybe it will fall flat. Or maybe it will squeeze up into my top 3 :) We'll have to see.

Also note my opinions change rapidly lmao. So if you've seen me make a tier list on another board or something it's probably different now.

Does unlimited SaGa "get better" at all? I tried to play it (like <2 hours) and I was so thrown off by RNG skills and stuff that I just stopped. I guess technically you can get good at stopping the wheel?

It was interesting to see the board game style though and how they kind of used some of that in Scarlet Grace.

eagsasdf posted...

Does unlimited SaGa "get better" at all? I tried to play it (like <2 hours) and I was so thrown off by RNG skills and stuff that I just stopped. I guess technically you can get good at stopping the wheel?

It was interesting to see the board game style though and how they kind of used some of that in Scarlet Grace.

It doesn't. You'll be doing the exact same stuff at hour 30 that you did at hour 1, only the RNG wheel will be a little less punishing. Emphasis on "a little" - level 5 Lockpicking, for example, is still ~50% failure slots.

eagsasdf posted...

Does unlimited SaGa "get better" at all? I tried to play it (like <2 hours) and I was so thrown off by RNG skills and stuff that I just stopped. I guess technically you can get good at stopping the wheel?

It was interesting to see the board game style though and how they kind of used some of that in Scarlet Grace.

I think it gets quite good, but it is a big threshold. You'll have to patiently learn and get used to lots of systems and mechanics and quirks. In the end imo it is maybe the most rewarding Saga game but I'm careful to not really recommend it to folks categorically. It is dense.
About the wheels, yes they're completely deterministic so you'll get better at timing them. As you get higher level skill panels, there will also be less green results on the wheels.

eagsasdf posted...

Does unlimited SaGa "get better" at all? I tried to play it (like <2 hours) and I was so thrown off by RNG skills and stuff that I just stopped. I guess technically you can get good at stopping the wheel?

It was interesting to see the board game style though and how they kind of used some of that in Scarlet Grace.

The battle reels are skill/timing based and not random -- always the same pattern and always start in the same spot (once you get better panels it's much easier to stop the reel on what you want; I can do hit what I want pretty much 100% of the time once I glimmer more arts and get better panels). I see the pseudo-randomness/difficulty of hitting the reels early-game just like your characters being unskilled with their weapons. I definitely understand it being frustrating and a turn-off though.

The map reels are somewhat skill-based but they have a "slip" system meaning there's still a random element. But your panels also effect the rate at which the 'good' outcomes happen, so you can think of map reels as more of just dice rolls that you can nudge toward your favor with good timing. The map reels are also not randomly generated and follow one of 20 patterns (but depending on your skill panel, will be one of like 2 or 3 patterns so it's easy to remember), where you can even guarantee you don't hit a bomb or even guarantee a success if you hit at the right spot with certain level panels.

So in short, it gets a bit better in that you can sway RNG to your favor or even time it so that you get what you want, but it also doesn't get better in the sense that you're still going to be doing reel checks for the whole game, so if simply doing them is what turns you off, it's going to be tons of that for the whole game.

level 5 Lockpicking, for example, is still ~50% failure slots.

Level 5 skill panels can make a lot of things (like doors) so there's only 1 bomb or even no bombs, with even some possible patterns being 100% success rate if you hit in the right spot (even with the 'slip' system). It's only the high level stuff that will still have lots of failure nodes. Like a level 99 chest is still going to be hard even with Level 5 Lockpicking of course. But a level ~40 chest for example will have places you can stop it so that you'll at least not hit bombs or have very low chance of bombs, so you have a strong sway over your RNG.

More info here: https://thaao.net/unsaga/world/?p=reel

unwashed_masses posted...

Hey there Ness! Glad to see you around! I don’t go on twitch as much these days but I enjoyed your Unlimited Saga streams, and you really helped me appreciate that game!

Thanks so much! I don't really stream much anymore; been sticking to YouTube as the social aspect of streaming kinda overwhelms me sometimes. I'm really glad you've been able to enjoy unsaga!!!

I agree with all your points on the games, too, though I do like smithing in Unlimited (I refuse to save-scum for stuff like Damascus and it actually makes it much more interesting to me -- when you finally get what you want it's super exciting! Plus it makes there more point to shopping and collecting materials as you'll be using them much more)

My personal list:

Romancing Saga 3
Romancing Saga: Minstrels Song
The Last Remnant
Saga Frontier 2
Saga Scarlet Graces
Saga Frontier
Unlimited Saga
Romancing Saga 2

Im expecting this to crack my top three. I’m super excited.

setting graphics aside and not factoring in graphics.

1. SaGa 1 and 2. character creation, party creation. later games should reserve one protagonist sort with creation options. theres more potential with creation options. the Wonderswan and DS remakes improved some things.
2. Romancing SaGa Minstrel Song (the most well rounded in selection, combat and nonlinearity and deep exploration)
3. SaGa Emerald Beyond (the multi worlds and more nonlinearity looks interesting though what sets it back is the protagonists selection which while more varied than MS, MS has more quantity and quality of protagonists. in MS I have at least 3 favorites. while SEB only seeing maybe 1 or 2 favorites and I feel its odd pairing up 2 protagonists in one scenario, that makes it harder to roleplay split between two protagonists. think Formina orwhever her name is could have been something that isnt a cop and had her own scenario. but hey it depends how they organize and plan things. also skeptical whether the magic system is any good. but I'm positive this game could be top 3 though admittingly its graphics help it be more inviting. though aside from that, it can only be better than Scarlet Grace plus more worlds than SaGa Frontier so it definitely feels like it can surpass SF1 in quality and quantity. )
4. SaGa Frontier (this has one of the best magic systems however I dislike how strict it is with certain recruiting and recruiting requirements and unlocking space and time magic is such a chore since its tied to completing side quests like runes or something. didnt wanna do that in a 2nd playthrough. )
5. Romancing SaGa 3 (Sarah got robbed from having a better campaign at the last parts.)
6. SaGa Scarlet Grace (really didnt like the magic system. too slow to cast. didnt reach its potential due to Vita hardware and hudget/time constraints. only has have the protagonists originally planned. and so many Celestials missing from plot/battles. they really cut a lot of corners. )
7. Unlimited Saga (not sure where to place this, havent played it). heard magic is tough to get ). but its fundamental design is definitely more relatable to Romancing SaGa 1 and 3 instead of RS2, S3 and SF2.
8. Romancing SaGa 2 (epic antagonists though wouldnt want another like this game. its the anti SaGa of the romancing saga trilogy.)
9. SaGa 3 (the monster transformations are a waste how players dont have any real control to keep the form they like and the bestiary lacks sexiness. dislike the forced protagonist. players can swap, but its the anti-SaGa of the originaly trilogy. )
10. SaGa Frontier 2 and mobile/gatcha games. the worst of the worst. the anti-SaGas of the series that innovate in the wrong ways. SF2 is not even worthy of the SaGa Frontier title. it is the total opposite of SaGa Frontier 1 standards. SF2 feels like a Final Fantasy 2/etc. wannabe with how limited and restricted it is with protagonists and forced narrative limited player's choice of character, role and perspective. SaGa 1 and 2 made steps in great idrections. Romancing SaGa 1 made steps in great direction. so did SaGa Frontier 1, but SF2 and the gatcha games are really below the standards of the best SaGa games, so they are backwards and obsolete. SF2 has fans, and Unlimited Saga remaster may depend on SF2 remaster profits, so I dont mind SF2 selling big, but dont expect everyone to like it. people dont have to like a particular SaGa game nor all of them to be a SaGa fan. Final Fnatasy and Dragon Quest and Pokemon have their games not everyone likes either. no game is for everyone. though I feel SF2 could have easily been SF1 but better and raise the bar further but its like they threw out everything that made RS and SF1 so liked and dedicated SF2 to some demographics on the opposite side of the spectrums.