As things go so slowly, I doubt they think “Only some active people is saying something bother, but early birds buckers are newly coming in. If we can gain more 10 days, we can get money.”
I have another set of questions I hope you can answer. They are not about gameplay but about the game in general:
1 - In September, when the Kickstarter got delayed you said in an FAQ that shipping would be 1 and a half years after pledge ends.
In this campaign the shipping date is April or 4 months. Given everything that has occurred do you still have a 2025 release date or will it likely be pushed back?
2- Is the board you use in the update and Twitter the same board when flipped? I ask because the vertical side is rather long but on the flipped side it doesn't look like the size matches when rotated.
3- the rules and cards are not the final design. Are there many more revisions left or are they ready to go and just need to be manufactured?
4- How much influence does Atlus or Sega or the SMT IP holder have on the board game?
I am not sure if you are allowed to comment but would this reason be why updates and comments have been slow?
If you are allowed to say anything this would greatly ease concerns as us backers would at least know the IP is also heavily involved in the project and are passionate for it to come to life.
5- how many backer goals or extra figures do you have beyond
3rd tier or 5000 backers? I would very much like to have all of these goals unlocked as ¥100,000,000 is a huge milestone for a kickstarter and it is sad that we couldn't even unlock the 1st goal.
Would you consider giving away all stretch goals at backers end?
I eagerly await your response
Ian MacColl
Regarding shipping they quietly changed it to just 2025 now, so it could be Dec 2025 by the time it's shipped now.
Given how originally they were going straight into production after the campaign ended I assume they were the final designs. But now that people have mentioned Google translate and some cards being odd to read, suddenly they'll hire a translator, or so they say. So who knows what's going on there.
The said nearly a week ago they'd reconsider stretch goals to be more realistic. Yet nothings changed currently. Which is odd, they delayed the game initially to add more stretch goals. More than halfway through the campaign now and the first one hasn't even unlocked. They don't seem bothered in the slightest the extra stuff they said they worked to include doesn't have the slightest chance of being unlocked, unless they decided to just include it on a whim.
MartinSuperbacker
By the looks of the pictures, the camera may have been too far. If you used a good camera, please zoom in so we can properly see what's happening on the table. If it turns out the quality is too blurry, please try to film the gameplay again or have another solution for backers to understand the gameplay of your game.
Mark CashmanSuperbacker
Wow to that last update. No more information, just heres some pictures The rulebook clearly been stacks of A4 at the moment.
Also these pictures raised another question. Are there 2 boards ? IE the main area control board and the combat board. Only from looking at those photos it seems you need to flip it over? That can't be right ?
Anyhow, they don't care what us vocal people say anyhow, they have secured a ton of funding. What we say is inconsequential to them.
Good thing i'm not back this game :(
Derek P.Superbacker
That "Play Feel Movie" on the campaign page shows them flipping the board over for the combat board. Or, rather, the "Final Battle" part of the game.
Mark CashmanSuperbacker
Ahhh I guess that's good to know i wondered how you'd manage flipping the board every time combat initiated. Still.....guess we will see what else they come up with
catofulthar
icrea is still thinking CMON is a important thing, wth...
And they said "Well update a playthrough video" right?
It means they have nothing done about rulebook, videos, and so many things to begin KS project.
In japan, this situation is called as "the final day of summer vacation". Because children have so many homework, and enjoyed holidays forgetting what they have to do. Yes, there are stacks of papers.
It looks like they are going to spend full of week without response.
OK, let make me it clear for abroad people. This is 11/30 1:00 (almost), sunday begins in Japan, remember please.(I don't know why they update in this time...) They have 5 weekdays from tomorrow in JST. Ofcource, They can work in sunday or saturday, or can say "Oh, we don't work saturday and sunday" and gain 9 or 10 days in total...
But how many backers can believe something enough will come? Remember, this project was delayed to start at first...
Ian MacColl
Here's the thing though, if it's only about money they'd take days off. If this is something they are truly passionate about, and given they've spent years on this why wouldn't they be. They should be working every day during the campaign because this is a product they believe in. Their handling of this campaign so far suggests our money is all they are interested in.
Mark CashmanSuperbacker
And they would be in the comments from day 1 interacting with people. Language barrier isnt even an excuse with google translate. They could easily have someone responding and provided detailed information, IF they really cared.
杜敏求
In that case i think u should Shut down the campaign and Maybe restart the campaign when u r 100percent ready
Ian MacColl
Can you not give us a date for release of the video? Telling us to wait a moment is what we were told in comments as you researched answers. Which given how many years you've been making it and that it originally was ready to be produced once this ends I'm not sure what you have to research at this point. 5 days later and we're still waiting a moment for our questions to have definitive answers, how long does it take to research exactly?
Is the playthough going to have full subtitles and go over the rules and why they're doing what they're doing? Or have limited talking so there isn't much to translate, and we have to interpret the rules?
Hopefully it doesn't rely as heavily on dice as the pics suggest as I'd want more depth out of the game considering the price. It seems like you could be playing well for the majority of the game, but on the last few rolls you don't do as well and lose the whole game due to chance, which wouldn't seem fun at all. Losing would feel like you were cheated, and winning wouldn't be satisfying as you only won by luck.
Again this is pure speculation, but given how little we've had to go on for the whole campaign what else can we do but that.
HamsterBomb
It is now abundantly clear why we don't have a rulebook. In the new gameplay photos, the stacks of papers clipped together that the group keeps flipping through and staring at IS the rulebook. I'm actually more scared than before.
catofulthar
It looks like cheat papers or something… (wiping glasses)
Courtney
Thank you for answering my prior questions and thank you for the update.
I among as anyone just want communication between backer and creator, if you can provide this in a timely manner then it would greatly ease concerns.
There are a couple extra questions I had in regards to my previous questions I hope you could answer:
1- If there is a ranking system before Final Fight then how is victory points or 1st place status attained in the game?
2- If 4th place fights 1st and wins in the final fight and 2nd place fights 3rd and wins then 4th place fights 2nd and wins does that mean they win the whole thing?
3- If 4th place does end up winning the whole thing then why does the ranking system matter?
Can you elaborate on why we should try to acquire VP / ranking 1st if in the end 4th place can win everything?
Thanks again for responding, I look forward to hearing from you.
catofulthar
About AI-generated content
Seiji Ito, known as a designer of some SMT strategy or data, novel books and worked for weekly famitsu said, “Atlus prohibit to use AI-generated contents for their original IP or officially licensed contents, even if only for temporary sample”. If this rule still work nowadays, how icrea and Naoki Matsunaga decided to use and what rule is?
Regardless of whether the situation improves in the future, I have decided not to be involved in this project anymore. Therefore, I plan to cancel my pledge eventually.
Initially, I joined for the figurine and didn't pay much attention to the rulebook's disclosure. However, given that this project has reportedly undergone two years of testing, I would expect the rules to be finalized, even in a prototype stage (especially since the project was scheduled to ship in April). The lack of disclosure at this point has led me to lose trust in the project entirely.
Additionally, the responses to comments have been mostly repetitive, and even those stopped five days ago.
If you are a first-time backer reading this, I encourage you to check out other projects. Comparing them will likely help you see how unusual this project is.
That said, I noticed that the slot I freed up by reducing my pledge was quickly filled, so from the creator’s perspective, this project might appear to be a success.
While I will no longer be involved, I sincerely hope that the other backers achieve a satisfactory outcome.
Tiago Nunes // Jogamos?
If the comments around here are true then a lot of those pledges will be cancelled the day before the campaign ends.
I’ve just backed with 100yen to keep commenting.
I’d like for this project to be successful but this campaign would need a major overhaul right now so I’m out.
So there are 881 new backers to kickstarter for this project alone. Thats a ton of people that are new to crowdfunding and may not know the risks, so this post is mainly for them. Here are a list of concerns I personally have for this project (some are reposts what others have voiced).
1) No Rulebook - This is the biggest issue as the page itself doesnt go into a lot of detail as to how the game is played. Looking at their delivery table they aim to get this game fully produced next year and sent to backers. This means they should have a rulebook complete. Or at least a very good draft version. They dont have to say here is the final rulebook, but they could and should post the draft version for us to look at. However, after 15 days....nothing.
2) Shipping timeline. Speaking of the shipping timeline listed, its very very unrealistic. Most games, especially those with miniatures take 2 years to get delivered. Timelines do vary from company to company mind. Heck I am still waiting 4 years for my Stormsunder to arrive while they still continue rulebook testing!. It seems way too good to be true.
3) The first 1000 backers - The difference in price for the first 1000 backers vs those after is substantial. I think around a £70 discount. I've backed a lot of games and have never seen such a good early bird discount. This says to me they just wanted to secure 1000 back at the minimum. How can a brand new company afford to give such a hefty discount ? hmmmmmm
4) No copies sent to youtubers - Most games companies usually send a prototype or multiple ones out to content creators on youtube to generate marketing hype and buzz. Not all do, to be clear, but most. However, again this hasnt been done which leads me to believe they arent confident in their product.
5) Translation - We have already seen and they acknowledge that google translate is currently being used to communicate with backers. Whilst I appreciate they are a Japanese company, I would have expected them to have hired someone who could speak english and communicate with all of us here. This worries me when it comes to the translation being used in the game itself. Especially the rulebook!
6) The Cards - Currently they are showing the cards as having both English and Japanese text. Unless the cards are huge this will mean the text will be tiny. I want them to tell us that this was only in the prototype version and when the game delivers it'll have either Japanese or English on the cards...not both. No other game I know has multiple languages on the cards.
7) The Price - This is a very expensive board game, even if there are 72 miniatures involved. If you examined other miniature heavy campaigns the cost isnt this high. Again it feels they are preying on fomo and the IP from all the new backers who dont know how expensive board games are. Especially from a brand new creator. They could have offered a standee pledge for this game which based on the content in the box could have cost around £100-£150 instead.
8) Stretch goals - Well these are pointless. Nearly all companies give out stretch goals based on funding received or give daily unlocks to keep backers interested and to see new items that you are going to get. 2k Backers for some dice is ridiculous and at this rate people wont even get these (Dice are the cheapest thing to produce costing pennies). This says to me they didnt do any kickstarter research or just dont really want to give any extras to its backers
9) NO COMMUNICATION - This is the biggest worry. Yes they have provided copy and pasted responses, saying we are sorry, we will get better etc etc. But so far, actions speak louder than words. And the latest reply purely based on the CMON issue wasn't even an issue. Most factories are used by multiple companies, unless they have an exclusive deal with a brand (which i've never heard of). The fact they dont have answers for us, and keep putting our concerns off says to me, they just dont have any answers for us. Again, a good kickstarter campaign will have people in the comments from day 1, thanking people, answering questions, talking about game mechanics. Here.....nothing.
10) Shipping prices - Obviously this varies depending where the backers are from, but these seem really high! Especially since this game will probably be manufactured in china, why is the shipping to Japan so high! (Because most of the backers are from here?) Again, i know shipping can be high for board games, but this seems higher than any of the games i've backed recently. And this includes 'All in pledges' which are multiple boxes of board games, whereas this is just one box.
11) No gameplay videos - Even if they dont have translators I would expect to see gameplay videos on the campaign page. These could be in Japanese if they wanted, but would show how the game is played, winning conditions, etc. With AI these days they could easily get an english subtitled version of this.
I think that covers my concerns. My advice would be for backers to keep a $1 pledge which would grant them access to the pledge manager for the game. And when this opens (usually a few months after the campaign ends) decide then whether they want to give your hard earned money. This would give them a chance to address all of these questions and for you to do your own research and decide if you want to take the risk.
Please remember new backers - Kickstarter is NOT a preorder system. There is no guarantee you will get this game, and if you do get it, no guarantee it'll be good. Its a lot of money for people to give and for me , they havent been great at reassuring anyone that this is a good investment.
I'll translate this into Japanese on google translate too.
Just be careful. Do some research.
Cheers everyone :)
Showing 3 of 10 replies
Michael Ortiz
Tbh I'm fine with AI translated text. It tends to work fine.
Merik2013
The prototypes are displayed on the main page under the demon conversation page and can be read if zoomed in on. The AI translation they used is very low quality, stilted, and sometimes nonsensical. Like I said, they've given reassurances of doing away with that for the final release.
Mark CashmanSuperbacker
I can promise you the moon too, doesnt mean you'll get it Merik. So far they havent done anything that makes me want to believe what they say. Lets see their actions in the next 13 days (so far nothing)
Nickollas Nunes
I'm not even waiting until Dec 11th. I'm dropping my pledge to 100 yen now just to keep my comments up, and by Dec 11th I'll just cancel completely. It is clear ICREA does not care about their customer or delivering a good product. It will be a boring game with some IP protected minis. If you have twitter please tag Sega and Atlus and check if they are okay with the way their IP is being treated.
I understand why backers familiar to play want rulebook. “Yes-man or relative people”-only test makes things so bad.
Nickollas Nunes
>Cato
I have raised this question before, but there might be a massive design flaw that the game will be decided, after 3 hours, by a single dice roll. I could be wrong of course, but it honestly seems more and more likely that the game is EXTREMELY bland.
D
言いたいことは沢山ありますが、一言だけ言わせて貰いますと
真・女神転生というブランド。
高額にも関わらず初日に達成するほどの力があるのに
今の状態なのは本当に残念でしかない
もう支援期間の半分過ぎましたよ
Michael Ortiz
Very true, this KS could have soared since day one with its momentum and now its stagnant.
As another early-bird backer, I just want to make it clear that if there is not more information released very soon about the actual specifics of gameplay, including more information about the rules, I will cancel my pledge before the end of the campaign.
Andy Patschull
So, let me get this straight. We have questions and concerns about the project itself. Quality, what the board looks like, how the game will play, if the stretch goals could be adjusted, why there has been complete radio silence from you guys and the only response we get is an apology that someone mentioned CMON? In the grand scheme of things that is extremely insignificant. Your reference of CMON isn't going to stop people from backing this project. What will get people to back this project is glaringly obvious if you guys listen to what people are actually saying in these comments rather than giving half baked responses that boil down to, "We'll look into it."
My advice:
Cancel this project. It is clear no one in your company knows how to run a Kickstarter campaign. Come back when everything is actually good with the game. I know the game will play poorly because of the absolute fear of showing the rulebook. Fix it, get your "Kickstarter Project Manager" trained in running a Kickstarter, have 1 or 2 people join them so it is a small team that has an easy time communicating with everyone and themselves.
Lay down goals and ideas that could be presented to the public for actually achievable goals.
Have rewards/goals for people that can't pitch in the price for the full priced product. I'd even recommend a digital version even because things like Table Top Simulator is a thing that people use now.
With that last point, playable digital demo for people for $20 and let them increase their pledge in a pledge manager after the Kickstarter finishes.
This will let people know what all the money will go towards, this will give people what they want in regards to communication, this will allow people to feel safe in knowing their money isn't just being wasted. Nearly $400 is too much of an ask for something with this poor communication or content. If you think people will give you $400 for something that may or may not be good, then I have bad news for you. Most people don't have that much money to throw around at whatever they want at the moment.
Rimoley
A part of us will cancel, or just drop it to 100 yen, as I did, to keep track and react. Because if someone is not an early bird, there is no benefit of having 100yen or 65000 yen bid....
And if you are not able to do it in the last days for whatever reason, at least you should be ok, "investing" 100 yen
Creator also said there will be a pledge manager after too, so always the chance to go up, but not down
Andy Patschull
With how much communication there is, I wouldn't doubt if them opening a pledge manager is a lie. I already set mine to 100¥ so I could post.
00shadow00
全然詐欺事件の発展
Tiago Nunes // Jogamos?
Honestly this update is just so disrespectful…
Covering your tracks instead of answering your backers concerns.
Michael Ortiz
I wonder if we should do a mass tweets tagging Sega and Atlus about the treatment on this KS. We have nearly 13 days left and after that last update everything feels like a big joke.
Maybe tweet something that Ian Mac Coll said. It hits all our points
This is your space to offer support and feedback. Remember to be constructive—there's a human behind this project.
Have a question for the creator?
Only backers can post comments. Log in
あんまりにものろくさとことを進めるものだから、『数人が煩く騒いでるだけだしもう十日ほど牛歩すれば一億総取りイェーイ』とか考えてそうにさえ見えてきてる。
As things go so slowly, I doubt they think “Only some active people is saying something bother, but early birds buckers are newly coming in. If we can gain more 10 days, we can get money.”
開発者達は延期するとか、中止してしっかり準備してから出直す事は出来ないですかね。
アップデートある度にワクワクするどころか不安になっていくのがヤバい。最初は2個欲しいと考えてたのが今は前日にキャンセルする事しか考えて無い。
I have another set of questions I hope you can answer. They are not about gameplay but about the game in general:
1 - In September, when the Kickstarter got delayed you said in an FAQ that shipping would be 1 and a half years after pledge ends.
In this campaign the shipping date is April or 4 months. Given everything that has occurred do you still have a 2025 release date or will it likely be pushed back?
2- Is the board you use in the update and Twitter the same board when flipped? I ask because the vertical side is rather long but on the flipped side it doesn't look like the size matches when rotated.
3- the rules and cards are not the final design. Are there many more revisions left or are they ready to go and just need to be manufactured?
4- How much influence does Atlus or Sega or the SMT IP holder have on the board game?
I am not sure if you are allowed to comment but would this reason be why updates and comments have been slow?
If you are allowed to say anything this would greatly ease concerns as us backers would at least know the IP is also heavily involved in the project and are passionate for it to come to life.
5- how many backer goals or extra figures do you have beyond
3rd tier or 5000 backers? I would very much like to have all of these goals unlocked as ¥100,000,000 is a huge milestone for a kickstarter and it is sad that we couldn't even unlock the 1st goal.
Would you consider giving away all stretch goals at backers end?
I eagerly await your response
Regarding shipping they quietly changed it to just 2025 now, so it could be Dec 2025 by the time it's shipped now.
Given how originally they were going straight into production after the campaign ended I assume they were the final designs. But now that people have mentioned Google translate and some cards being odd to read, suddenly they'll hire a translator, or so they say. So who knows what's going on there.
The said nearly a week ago they'd reconsider stretch goals to be more realistic. Yet nothings changed currently. Which is odd, they delayed the game initially to add more stretch goals. More than halfway through the campaign now and the first one hasn't even unlocked. They don't seem bothered in the slightest the extra stuff they said they worked to include doesn't have the slightest chance of being unlocked, unless they decided to just include it on a whim.
By the looks of the pictures, the camera may have been too far. If you used a good camera, please zoom in so we can properly see what's happening on the table. If it turns out the quality is too blurry, please try to film the gameplay again or have another solution for backers to understand the gameplay of your game.
Wow to that last update. No more information, just heres some pictures The rulebook clearly been stacks of A4 at the moment.
Also these pictures raised another question. Are there 2 boards ? IE the main area control board and the combat board. Only from looking at those photos it seems you need to flip it over? That can't be right ?
Anyhow, they don't care what us vocal people say anyhow, they have secured a ton of funding. What we say is inconsequential to them.
Good thing i'm not back this game :(
That "Play Feel Movie" on the campaign page shows them flipping the board over for the combat board. Or, rather, the "Final Battle" part of the game.
Ahhh I guess that's good to know i wondered how you'd manage flipping the board every time combat initiated. Still.....guess we will see what else they come up with
icrea is still thinking CMON is a important thing, wth...
And they said "Well update a playthrough video" right?
It means they have nothing done about rulebook, videos, and so many things to begin KS project.
In japan, this situation is called as "the final day of summer vacation". Because children have so many homework, and enjoyed holidays forgetting what they have to do. Yes, there are stacks of papers.
It looks like they are going to spend full of week without response.
OK, let make me it clear for abroad people. This is 11/30 1:00 (almost), sunday begins in Japan, remember please.(I don't know why they update in this time...) They have 5 weekdays from tomorrow in JST. Ofcource, They can work in sunday or saturday, or can say "Oh, we don't work saturday and sunday" and gain 9 or 10 days in total...
But how many backers can believe something enough will come? Remember, this project was delayed to start at first...
Here's the thing though, if it's only about money they'd take days off. If this is something they are truly passionate about, and given they've spent years on this why wouldn't they be. They should be working every day during the campaign because this is a product they believe in. Their handling of this campaign so far suggests our money is all they are interested in.
And they would be in the comments from day 1 interacting with people. Language barrier isnt even an excuse with google translate. They could easily have someone responding and provided detailed information, IF they really cared.
In that case i think u should Shut down the campaign and Maybe restart the campaign when u r 100percent ready
Can you not give us a date for release of the video? Telling us to wait a moment is what we were told in comments as you researched answers. Which given how many years you've been making it and that it originally was ready to be produced once this ends I'm not sure what you have to research at this point. 5 days later and we're still waiting a moment for our questions to have definitive answers, how long does it take to research exactly?
Is the playthough going to have full subtitles and go over the rules and why they're doing what they're doing? Or have limited talking so there isn't much to translate, and we have to interpret the rules?
Hopefully it doesn't rely as heavily on dice as the pics suggest as I'd want more depth out of the game considering the price. It seems like you could be playing well for the majority of the game, but on the last few rolls you don't do as well and lose the whole game due to chance, which wouldn't seem fun at all. Losing would feel like you were cheated, and winning wouldn't be satisfying as you only won by luck.
Again this is pure speculation, but given how little we've had to go on for the whole campaign what else can we do but that.
It is now abundantly clear why we don't have a rulebook. In the new gameplay photos, the stacks of papers clipped together that the group keeps flipping through and staring at IS the rulebook. I'm actually more scared than before.
It looks like cheat papers or something… (wiping glasses)
Thank you for answering my prior questions and thank you for the update.
I among as anyone just want communication between backer and creator, if you can provide this in a timely manner then it would greatly ease concerns.
There are a couple extra questions I had in regards to my previous questions I hope you could answer:
1- If there is a ranking system before Final Fight then how is victory points or 1st place status attained in the game?
2- If 4th place fights 1st and wins in the final fight and 2nd place fights 3rd and wins then 4th place fights 2nd and wins does that mean they win the whole thing?
3- If 4th place does end up winning the whole thing then why does the ranking system matter?
Can you elaborate on why we should try to acquire VP / ranking 1st if in the end 4th place can win everything?
Thanks again for responding, I look forward to hearing from you.
About AI-generated content
Seiji Ito, known as a designer of some SMT strategy or data, novel books and worked for weekly famitsu said, “Atlus prohibit to use AI-generated contents for their original IP or officially licensed contents, even if only for temporary sample”. If this rule still work nowadays, how icrea and Naoki Matsunaga decided to use and what rule is?
He clearly stated “yes this is about KS project.”
https://x.com/seiziito/status/1861016970382242026?s=46&t=INVSmm6IaxPxzVQ7nPv7IA
私はプレッジを100円に変更しました。
これから事態が良い方向に進んだとしても、このプロジェクトには関わらないことにしました。そのため、いずれキャンセルする予定です。
当初はフィギュア目当てで参加したため、ルールブックの公開についてはあまり気にしていませんでした。しかし、2年間もテストを行っていたのであれば、プロトタイプであってもルールは既に完成しているべきだと思います（4月発送予定という点を考えても）。にもかかわらず、ルールが公開されない現状を見て、このプロジェクト自体に対する信頼が持てなくなりました。
さらに、コメントへの返信内容はほとんど同じで、その対応も5日前を最後に止まっています。
これを読んでいる初めての支援者の皆さんには、ぜひ他のプロジェクトも覗いてみてほしいです。このプロジェクトがいかに異常であるか、比較することで分かると思います。
とはいえ、私がプレッジを変更したことで空いた枠もすぐに埋まっている状況を見ると、クリエイター側からすればこのプロジェクトは「成功」しているのかもしれません。
私はもう関わるつもりはありませんが、支援者の皆さんが納得のいく結果を得られることを願っています。
I have reduced my pledge to 100 yen.
Regardless of whether the situation improves in the future, I have decided not to be involved in this project anymore. Therefore, I plan to cancel my pledge eventually.
Initially, I joined for the figurine and didn't pay much attention to the rulebook's disclosure. However, given that this project has reportedly undergone two years of testing, I would expect the rules to be finalized, even in a prototype stage (especially since the project was scheduled to ship in April). The lack of disclosure at this point has led me to lose trust in the project entirely.
Additionally, the responses to comments have been mostly repetitive, and even those stopped five days ago.
If you are a first-time backer reading this, I encourage you to check out other projects. Comparing them will likely help you see how unusual this project is.
That said, I noticed that the slot I freed up by reducing my pledge was quickly filled, so from the creator’s perspective, this project might appear to be a success.
While I will no longer be involved, I sincerely hope that the other backers achieve a satisfactory outcome.
If the comments around here are true then a lot of those pledges will be cancelled the day before the campaign ends.
I’ve just backed with 100yen to keep commenting.
I’d like for this project to be successful but this campaign would need a major overhaul right now so I’m out.
つまり、このプロジェクトだけでも、Kickstarter に 881 人の新規支援者がいるということです。クラウドファンディングに不慣れでリスクを知らない人が大勢いるということです。そのため、この投稿は主に彼らのためのものです。このプロジェクトに関して私が個人的に抱いている懸念事項のリストを以下に示します (一部は他の人が表明したものの再投稿です)。
1) ルールブックがない - これは最大の問題です。ページ自体にはゲームのプレイ方法についてあまり詳しく説明されていません。彼らの納品表を見ると、彼らは来年このゲームを完全に制作し、支援者に送ることを目指しています。つまり、彼らはルールブックを完成させる必要があるということです。または少なくとも非常に優れたドラフト版です。彼らはこれが最終的なルールブックであると言わなくてもかまいませんが、ドラフト版を投稿して私たちが見ることができるようにすることはできますし、そうすべきです。しかし、15 日経っても何も起こりません。
2) 配送スケジュール。記載されている配送スケジュールについて言えば、それは非常に非現実的です。ほとんどのゲーム、特にミニチュア付きのゲームは、配送に 2 年かかります。もちろん、タイムラインは会社によって異なります。なんと、私はまだルールブックのテストを続けている間に、ストームスンダーが届くのを4年も待っているのです。あまりにも良すぎて本当とは思えません。
3) 最初の1000人の支援者 - 最初の1000人の支援者とそれ以降の支援者との価格差はかなり大きいです。70ポンドくらいの割引だと思います。私はたくさんのゲームを支援してきましたが、こんなに良い早期割引は見たことがありません。これは、彼らが最低でも1000ドルを確保したかっただけだと私には思えます。まったく新しい会社がどうしてこんなに大きな割引をできるのでしょうか？うーん
4) ユーチューバーにコピーは送られません - ほとんどのゲーム会社は、マーケティングの誇大宣伝や話題を呼ぶために、通常、プロトタイプを1つまたは複数ユーチューブのコンテンツクリエイターに送ります。明確に言うと、すべてがそうしているわけではありませんが、ほとんどの会社がそうしています。しかし、これも行われていないので、彼らは製品に自信がないと私は思います。
5) 翻訳 - 支援者とのコミュニケーションにGoogle翻訳が現在使用されていることはすでに確認しており、彼らもそれを認めています。日本の会社であることはありがたいですが、英語を話せて、ここにいる私たち全員とコミュニケーションが取れる人を雇っているはずだと思いました。ゲーム自体で使用されている翻訳に関しては心配です。特にルールブックは！
6) カード - 現在、カードには英語と日本語の両方のテキストが記載されています。カードが非常に大きい場合を除き、テキストは小さくなることを意味します。これはプロトタイプ版のみであり、ゲームがリリースされたときにはカードに日本語または英語のいずれかが記載されるだけであり、両方ではないことを伝えてほしいです。私が知っている他のゲームで、カードに複数の言語が記載されているものはありません。
7) 価格 - ミニチュアが72体含まれているにもかかわらず、これは非常に高価なボードゲームです。ミニチュアを多用する他のキャンペーンを調べてみると、コストはこれほど高くありません。ここでも、ボードゲームがいかに高価であるかを知らないすべての新しい支援者から、FOMOとIPを食い物にしているように感じます。特に、まったく新しいクリエイターからのものです。彼らはこのゲームのためにスタンディング プレッジを提供できたはずです。箱の内容から判断すると、100 ～ 150 ポンド程度で済むはずです。
8) ストレッチ ゴール - まあ、これは意味がありません。ほぼすべての企業が、受け取った資金に基づいてストレッチ ゴールを提供したり、支援者の興味を引いて新しいアイテムを入手できるように毎日ロック解除したりしています。サイコロに 2,000 人の支援者というのはばかげていますし、このままでは人々はサイコロさえ手に入らないでしょう (サイコロは数セントしかかからない最も安価なものです)。これは、彼らが Kickstarter の調査をまったく行っていないか、支援者に余分なものを提供したくないだけであることを示しています。
9) コミュニケーションなし - これは最大の懸念です。確かに彼らは、申し訳ない、改善します、などといったコピー アンド ペーストの回答を提供してきました。しかし、これまでのところ、行動は言葉よりも雄弁です。そして、CMON の問題だけに基づいた最新の返信は、問題にもなっていません。ほとんどの工場は、ブランドと独占契約を結んでいない限り (私は聞いたことがありません)、複数の企業によって使用されています。彼らが私たちに答えを示さず、私たちの懸念を先送りし続けているという事実は、彼らが私たちに答えを持っていないことを私に伝えています。繰り返しますが、優れた Kickstarter キャンペーンでは、1 日目からコメント欄に人々がいて、感謝の意を表し、質問に答え、ゲームの仕組みについて話します。ここでは...何も。
10) 送料 - 当然、これは支援者の出身地によって異なりますが、非常に高いようです。特にこのゲームは中国で製造される可能性が高いのに、なぜ日本への送料がこんなに高いのでしょうか。(支援者のほとんどがここの出身だからでしょうか?) 繰り返しますが、ボードゲームの送料は高額になる可能性があることは知っていますが、これは最近支援したどのゲームよりも高いようです。これには、ボードゲームの複数の箱である「オールイン プレッジ」も含まれますが、これは 1 つの箱だけです。
11) ゲームプレイ ビデオがない - 翻訳者がいなくても、キャンペーン ページにゲームプレイ ビデオが表示されることを期待します。必要に応じて日本語でも、ゲームのプレイ方法や勝利条件などを示すことができます。最近の AI を使えば、英語の字幕付きバージョンを簡単に作成できます。
これで私の懸念は解決したと思います。私のアドバイスとしては、支援者は 1 ドルの支援金を貯めて、ゲームの支援金管理ツールにアクセスできるようにすることです。そして、支援金管理ツールが開いたら (通常はキャンペーン終了から数か月後)、苦労して稼いだお金を寄付するかどうかを決めてください。そうすれば、支援者はすべての質問に答える機会が得られ、支援者は自分で調査してリスクを負うかどうかを決めることができます。
新しい支援者は覚えておいてください。Kickstarter は予約注文システムではありません。このゲームが手に入る保証はありませんし、手に入ったとしても、良いゲームである保証はありません。これは人々にとって多額の寄付金であり、私にとっては、Kickstarter はこれが良い投資であることを誰にも安心させるのが得意ではありません。
Google 翻訳でこれを日本語に翻訳します。
気をつけてください。調査をしてください。
皆さん、乾杯 :)
まずはマークの親切さに感謝します。
あなたの日本語のポストは、初めてキックスターターを使うか二回目の（増子氏の女神転生リアレンジCDが初めてだった私のような）人々にとって大変大きな助けになっています。
一つ付け足しをさせてください。
FOMOは日本語ではあまり馴染みのない略語ですが、これは『fear of missing out、見逃しへの恐怖』という意味です。
今回の件では、クラウドファンディングに参加してバッカーにならなければ手に入らないということへの恐れを指します。
つまり、立体化されることの少ない悪魔のフィギュア、新作の立体物、そういうものを逃したくない欲求を人質にしてお金を騙し取ろうとしているのではないか、ということです。
（株式会社ペルソナと揶揄されることもある今のアトラスですから、その心配はとてもよくわかります）
個人的には、実際成功した女神転生関係のクラウドファンディングの例として、増子氏のリアレンジCDと Twitterアカウントをチェックしてみることを勧めます。
同じキックスターターを使ったプロジェクトなので、いい参考になると思います。
Cheers!
So there are 881 new backers to kickstarter for this project alone. Thats a ton of people that are new to crowdfunding and may not know the risks, so this post is mainly for them. Here are a list of concerns I personally have for this project (some are reposts what others have voiced).
1) No Rulebook - This is the biggest issue as the page itself doesnt go into a lot of detail as to how the game is played. Looking at their delivery table they aim to get this game fully produced next year and sent to backers. This means they should have a rulebook complete. Or at least a very good draft version. They dont have to say here is the final rulebook, but they could and should post the draft version for us to look at. However, after 15 days....nothing.
2) Shipping timeline. Speaking of the shipping timeline listed, its very very unrealistic. Most games, especially those with miniatures take 2 years to get delivered. Timelines do vary from company to company mind. Heck I am still waiting 4 years for my Stormsunder to arrive while they still continue rulebook testing!. It seems way too good to be true.
3) The first 1000 backers - The difference in price for the first 1000 backers vs those after is substantial. I think around a £70 discount. I've backed a lot of games and have never seen such a good early bird discount. This says to me they just wanted to secure 1000 back at the minimum. How can a brand new company afford to give such a hefty discount ? hmmmmmm
4) No copies sent to youtubers - Most games companies usually send a prototype or multiple ones out to content creators on youtube to generate marketing hype and buzz. Not all do, to be clear, but most. However, again this hasnt been done which leads me to believe they arent confident in their product.
5) Translation - We have already seen and they acknowledge that google translate is currently being used to communicate with backers. Whilst I appreciate they are a Japanese company, I would have expected them to have hired someone who could speak english and communicate with all of us here. This worries me when it comes to the translation being used in the game itself. Especially the rulebook!
6) The Cards - Currently they are showing the cards as having both English and Japanese text. Unless the cards are huge this will mean the text will be tiny. I want them to tell us that this was only in the prototype version and when the game delivers it'll have either Japanese or English on the cards...not both. No other game I know has multiple languages on the cards.
7) The Price - This is a very expensive board game, even if there are 72 miniatures involved. If you examined other miniature heavy campaigns the cost isnt this high. Again it feels they are preying on fomo and the IP from all the new backers who dont know how expensive board games are. Especially from a brand new creator. They could have offered a standee pledge for this game which based on the content in the box could have cost around £100-£150 instead.
8) Stretch goals - Well these are pointless. Nearly all companies give out stretch goals based on funding received or give daily unlocks to keep backers interested and to see new items that you are going to get. 2k Backers for some dice is ridiculous and at this rate people wont even get these (Dice are the cheapest thing to produce costing pennies). This says to me they didnt do any kickstarter research or just dont really want to give any extras to its backers
9) NO COMMUNICATION - This is the biggest worry. Yes they have provided copy and pasted responses, saying we are sorry, we will get better etc etc. But so far, actions speak louder than words. And the latest reply purely based on the CMON issue wasn't even an issue. Most factories are used by multiple companies, unless they have an exclusive deal with a brand (which i've never heard of). The fact they dont have answers for us, and keep putting our concerns off says to me, they just dont have any answers for us. Again, a good kickstarter campaign will have people in the comments from day 1, thanking people, answering questions, talking about game mechanics. Here.....nothing.
10) Shipping prices - Obviously this varies depending where the backers are from, but these seem really high! Especially since this game will probably be manufactured in china, why is the shipping to Japan so high! (Because most of the backers are from here?) Again, i know shipping can be high for board games, but this seems higher than any of the games i've backed recently. And this includes 'All in pledges' which are multiple boxes of board games, whereas this is just one box.
11) No gameplay videos - Even if they dont have translators I would expect to see gameplay videos on the campaign page. These could be in Japanese if they wanted, but would show how the game is played, winning conditions, etc. With AI these days they could easily get an english subtitled version of this.
I think that covers my concerns. My advice would be for backers to keep a $1 pledge which would grant them access to the pledge manager for the game. And when this opens (usually a few months after the campaign ends) decide then whether they want to give your hard earned money. This would give them a chance to address all of these questions and for you to do your own research and decide if you want to take the risk.
Please remember new backers - Kickstarter is NOT a preorder system. There is no guarantee you will get this game, and if you do get it, no guarantee it'll be good. Its a lot of money for people to give and for me , they havent been great at reassuring anyone that this is a good investment.
I'll translate this into Japanese on google translate too.
Just be careful. Do some research.
Cheers everyone :)
Tbh I'm fine with AI translated text. It tends to work fine.
The prototypes are displayed on the main page under the demon conversation page and can be read if zoomed in on. The AI translation they used is very low quality, stilted, and sometimes nonsensical. Like I said, they've given reassurances of doing away with that for the final release.
I can promise you the moon too, doesnt mean you'll get it Merik. So far they havent done anything that makes me want to believe what they say. Lets see their actions in the next 13 days (so far nothing)
I'm not even waiting until Dec 11th. I'm dropping my pledge to 100 yen now just to keep my comments up, and by Dec 11th I'll just cancel completely. It is clear ICREA does not care about their customer or delivering a good product. It will be a boring game with some IP protected minis. If you have twitter please tag Sega and Atlus and check if they are okay with the way their IP is being treated.
这是集资诈骗吧
很有可能
看起来是这样的
次のアップデートで、クリエイターが我々の投げかけた問題をどのように対応するのかをみてキャンセルするか見極めようと思う。
そのアップデートがいつになるのか、、、。
ボードゲームに詳しい人に伺いたいんですが、この手のゲームで2年間かけてルールのバージョンが11というのは十分なんでしょうか、少ないんでしょうか？
I want to ask somebody knows well about board game kind of this, is the number of version 11 within 2 yeas for test play, is enough or not?
It might be, really depends on the game and the amount of testing.
Who knows how many play tests they’ve had and with whom?
This is also relevant because they might just have tested internally with their “yes men”.
This is why backers are demanding a rulebook to ascertain for themselves on the game mechanics.
>麒麟さん
ありがとうございます。
つまり最悪『表紙ページの土台を用意しました』『表紙ページにロゴを入れました』でバージョン数を水増しもできるわけですね……
>Tiago
Thank you for reply.
I understand why backers familiar to play want rulebook. “Yes-man or relative people”-only test makes things so bad.
>Cato
I have raised this question before, but there might be a massive design flaw that the game will be decided, after 3 hours, by a single dice roll. I could be wrong of course, but it honestly seems more and more likely that the game is EXTREMELY bland.
言いたいことは沢山ありますが、一言だけ言わせて貰いますと
真・女神転生というブランド。
高額にも関わらず初日に達成するほどの力があるのに
今の状態なのは本当に残念でしかない
もう支援期間の半分過ぎましたよ
Very true, this KS could have soared since day one with its momentum and now its stagnant.
前回のアップデートの時にはお問い合わせでお送りしましたが、
再度似た内容でここに投稿させていただきます。
アップデートのお知らせは皆期待して確認に来ます。
アップデートに胸を躍らせてアクセスしてきた支援者が見るのが、アップデートとは程遠い情報の発信では、落胆させるだけです。
次回のアップデートでは、ルール掲載など期待しますとご連絡を差し上げました。
次回以降、アップデートのお知らせが配信されるときは、アップデートした時である事を切に願います。
こうした声明に関しては、自社ホームページや、Xのアカウントで発信等使い分けていただきたいと願います。
この場は、商品に対して支援するに値するか判断をする場なので、製品のプレゼンテーションをしてください。
制作側にある製品のビジョンをもっと知りたいのです。
私は、その情報を心待ちにしています。
次回のアップデートの際は、製品についてのお知らせが載ることを期待しています。
As another early-bird backer, I just want to make it clear that if there is not more information released very soon about the actual specifics of gameplay, including more information about the rules, I will cancel my pledge before the end of the campaign.
So, let me get this straight. We have questions and concerns about the project itself. Quality, what the board looks like, how the game will play, if the stretch goals could be adjusted, why there has been complete radio silence from you guys and the only response we get is an apology that someone mentioned CMON? In the grand scheme of things that is extremely insignificant. Your reference of CMON isn't going to stop people from backing this project. What will get people to back this project is glaringly obvious if you guys listen to what people are actually saying in these comments rather than giving half baked responses that boil down to, "We'll look into it."
My advice:
Cancel this project. It is clear no one in your company knows how to run a Kickstarter campaign. Come back when everything is actually good with the game. I know the game will play poorly because of the absolute fear of showing the rulebook. Fix it, get your "Kickstarter Project Manager" trained in running a Kickstarter, have 1 or 2 people join them so it is a small team that has an easy time communicating with everyone and themselves.
Lay down goals and ideas that could be presented to the public for actually achievable goals.
Have rewards/goals for people that can't pitch in the price for the full priced product. I'd even recommend a digital version even because things like Table Top Simulator is a thing that people use now.
With that last point, playable digital demo for people for $20 and let them increase their pledge in a pledge manager after the Kickstarter finishes.
This will let people know what all the money will go towards, this will give people what they want in regards to communication, this will allow people to feel safe in knowing their money isn't just being wasted. Nearly $400 is too much of an ask for something with this poor communication or content. If you think people will give you $400 for something that may or may not be good, then I have bad news for you. Most people don't have that much money to throw around at whatever they want at the moment.
A part of us will cancel, or just drop it to 100 yen, as I did, to keep track and react. Because if someone is not an early bird, there is no benefit of having 100yen or 65000 yen bid....
And if you are not able to do it in the last days for whatever reason, at least you should be ok, "investing" 100 yen
Creator also said there will be a pledge manager after too, so always the chance to go up, but not down
With how much communication there is, I wouldn't doubt if them opening a pledge manager is a lie. I already set mine to 100¥ so I could post.
全然詐欺事件の発展
Honestly this update is just so disrespectful…
Covering your tracks instead of answering your backers concerns.
I wonder if we should do a mass tweets tagging Sega and Atlus about the treatment on this KS. We have nearly 13 days left and after that last update everything feels like a big joke.
Maybe tweet something that Ian Mac Coll said. It hits all our points