Question: History of Vietnam: Is it right that the Kuomintang helped the Viet Minh increase their power after World War Two?
Answer:
This is an interesting question. Before answering your question, I think that you should indicate exactly What the word ‘Help” is in your mindset.
(KMT, China)
Firstly, I think that everything is dependent and influential on each other in some different ways that relate much to the causality.
- For example, the American secret bombing on Cambodia during the Vietnam War resulted in the casualties of about 100.000 Cambodian civilians and also contributed much to the rise
Footnotes
Question: History of Vietnam: Is it right that the Kuomintang helped the Viet Minh increase their power after World War Two?
Answer:
This is an interesting question. Before answering your question, I think that you should indicate exactly What the word ‘Help” is in your mindset.
(KMT, China)
Firstly, I think that everything is dependent and influential on each other in some different ways that relate much to the causality.
- For example, the American secret bombing on Cambodia during the Vietnam War resulted in the casualties of about 100.000 Cambodian civilians and also contributed much to the rise of the Khmer Rouge at that time.
(The American bombing campaign in Cambodia during the Vietnam War)
- Another example, Vietnam won America during the Vietnam war that led unintentionally to the support of America for the Khmer Rouge during the Vietnam-Cambodia war.
(the American troops during the Vietnam War)
- More example: Hitler and Germany Nazi invaded other countries and made WW2 breaking out, especially after the invasion of Poland of German in 1939. Then, even Germany Nazi failed but Hilter and Germany still created much the losses for France, Britain. And, as all you know, this result unintentionally pushed the process of the Decolonization all over the world. If France still were strong like before WW2, I do not think that the Vietnamese could defeat France or might take more time to liberate themselves from colonialism during the First Indochina War.
If you define these kinds of influences or dependencies as “Help”, I think that exactly, America, Vietnam help indirectly, and directly the Khmer Rouge and Mr. Polpot or Hilter also help much the Vietnamese. So, I shall temporarily call this help as “Help but brings connotation”
In reality, the defeat of KMT
before the Chinese communist forces that helped much the liberation and independent movements of Vietnam led by Mr. Ho Chi Minh. Because only when the CCP won the civil war of China in 1950, the independence of Vietnam is officially recognized and the Vietnamese started receiving foreign aids from China, then the Soviet Union for their wars against France, then America. This is a kind of Help from KMT or Kuomintang brought to Vietnam.(The Vietnamese and Viet Minh led by Mr. Ho defeated the French troops at the Dien Bien Phu battle)
Thus, if you tend to agree with this definition of help, I think my answer is Yes. KMT really help the Viet Minh
or the Vietnamese by their failure.Secondly, If you tend to understand the word “ Help” in normal meaning similar to the help of the Soviet Union, China for the Vietnamese and Viet Minh during the wars in Vietnam from 1945–1975, I think that my answer is No. KMT never wish to help Viet Minh or even the Vietnamese because they could not save themselves before the CCP at that time and also could not afford to help if they wish.
(Viet Minh and then the Vietnamese leaders during the wars for the independence of Vietnam in the late 20th century)
Here are all of my thoughts about your question. Now, I hope to ask you - What the answer of mine that you want to choose.
In conclusion: I think that KMT did not help Viet Minh increasing its power after the WW2. Exactly, the Historical context contributed much to the rise of Viet Minh after WW2.
P/s: I write answers based upon the gist and requirement of the question. Readers are requested to read it with neutrality and rational approach. I throughout this answer has no intention of showing any disrespect towards any group of people or country.
All bests
Lusia Millar.
Footnotes
Apparently, the Wikipedia page on First Indochina War wasn't too helpful in explaining the situation. I thus have problem with all the answers so far, so I'll give it a try:
First, the Vietnam Quoc Dan Dang wasn't a branch of the Chinese Quoc Dan Dang; this was a confusion common people had back in those days and some still have today (which the Viet Minh used to their advantage in branding Quoc Dan Dang as traitors in public eyes later after Ho took power in '45 despite they were all anti-French). They shared the same political belief system (and thus more in line with capitalism) and suppor
Apparently, the Wikipedia page on First Indochina War wasn't too helpful in explaining the situation. I thus have problem with all the answers so far, so I'll give it a try:
First, the Vietnam Quoc Dan Dang wasn't a branch of the Chinese Quoc Dan Dang; this was a confusion common people had back in those days and some still have today (which the Viet Minh used to their advantage in branding Quoc Dan Dang as traitors in public eyes later after Ho took power in '45 despite they were all anti-French). They shared the same political belief system (and thus more in line with capitalism) and supportive of each other but are independent organizations. The name Quoc Dan Dang basically implies "Nationalist Party" and thus translated directly to Chinese as Kuomintang, that's all. You couldn't call Vietnamese Communist Party "a branch of the Chinese Communist Party" for the same reason despite their much deeper alliance. Quoc Dan Dang was the bigger of the two major anti-colonial non-Communist parties and thus was the main target of Ho's campaign to get rid of opposition after the coup in August of '45.
Chinese Kuomintang of Chiang Kai-Shek didn't really help Viet Minh as much as helping themselves because they were willing to leave the task of disarming the Japanese and temporary control of North Vietnam per U.N. agreement to the French if France give up those concessions of China's territories they had with the Qing dynasty before and if the Viet Minh agree to them coming back. Ho had earlier promised to Kuomintang's general Lu Han to disband the Communist Party; he then agreed to have the French come back in Mar '46 to have North Vietnam operate as an autonomous state in the French Union. The other nationalist parties were horrified with these developments and further increased their opposition to these moves by Ho (that were really a short-term tactics to get the Kuomintang to leave because they're much larger in number). Ho then stepped up the elimination of the Quoc Dan Dang and declared war with the French by end of '46.
So in short, Kuomintang did not help the Viet Minh directly, but indirectly - yes. Increase in power? In a way, because Viet Minh's legitimacy claim is in being anti-colonial and it was easier for them to deal with the smaller French troop and resume people's focus in the French as enemies which was their raison d'être. Lu Han could have crushed Ho but he wasn't really interested in Vietnam's affair. Before that, Japanese' offer to the new Vietnamese Premier Tran Trong Kim in Mar '45 to crush the Communists were also turned down by Tran who was too kind of a nationalist; he would not have believed that Ho would later manage a bloodless coup to take over his government in August '45. Ho was just really lucky in several key events.
As for the South, the British use of the Japanese and Indian was effective in controlling Viet Minh, but Ho's base was in North Vietnam's jungle, so operationally and number-wise they weren't really big of a threat.
The answer is No. Instead Kuomintang supported another nationalist party , the Vietnam Quoc Dan Dang (meaning Vietnam Kuomintang). After the 1946 agreement between the French and the Viet Minh, the French forced Kuomintang out of North Vietnam. Shortly after that, Vietnam Quoc Dan Dang was ousted of its position in the parliament. You can get more information here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_War
After the war, 200,000 Chinese troops sent by Chiang Kai-shek under General Lu Han entered Indochina north of the 16th parallel to accept the surrender of Japanese occupying forces.
The answer is No. Instead Kuomintang supported another nationalist party , the Vietnam Quoc Dan Dang (meaning Vietnam Kuomintang). After the 1946 agreement between the French and the Viet Minh, the French forced Kuomintang out of North Vietnam. Shortly after that, Vietnam Quoc Dan Dang was ousted of its position in the parliament. You can get more information here :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Indochina_War
After the war, 200,000 Chinese troops sent by Chiang Kai-shek under General Lu Han entered Indochina north of the 16th parallel to accept the surrender of Japanese occupying forces. They remained there until 1946.[17] The Chinese used the VNQDD, the Vietnamese branch of the Chinese Kuomintang, to increase their influence in Indochina and put pressure on their opponents.[18] In February 1946 the French forced the Chinese to leave Indochina but agreed to renounce French extraterritorial privileges in China itself. French troops then reoccupied the region starting in March 1946.[19][20][21][22]
It was the same sequence as in China: the Nationalists kept the colonialists at bay, which gave the Communists space to take over.
South Vietnam was instead occupied by the British, who then immediately used Japanese and Indian troops to suppress the Viet Minh, so the Communists did not get as much of a foothold.
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Yes, it is accurate to say that the Kuomintang (KMT), or the Nationalist Party of China, inadvertently helped the Viet Minh increase their power after World War II. Here’s a brief overview of the context and events surrounding this relationship:
Post-World War II Context
- Japanese Occupation: During World War II, Vietnam was occupied by Japan. The Viet Minh, led by Ho Chi Minh, emerged as a nationalist movement opposing both Japanese occupation and French colonial rule.
- Power Vacuum: After Japan's defeat in 1945, a power vacuum emerged in Vietnam. The French sought to reestablish colonial control,
Yes, it is accurate to say that the Kuomintang (KMT), or the Nationalist Party of China, inadvertently helped the Viet Minh increase their power after World War II. Here’s a brief overview of the context and events surrounding this relationship:
Post-World War II Context
- Japanese Occupation: During World War II, Vietnam was occupied by Japan. The Viet Minh, led by Ho Chi Minh, emerged as a nationalist movement opposing both Japanese occupation and French colonial rule.
- Power Vacuum: After Japan's defeat in 1945, a power vacuum emerged in Vietnam. The French sought to reestablish colonial control, while various nationalist groups, including the Viet Minh, aimed for independence.
KMT's Role
- KMT's Interest: The KMT was primarily focused on its own struggle against the Chinese Communist Party (CCP) and did not have a direct interest in Vietnam. However, they were involved in the region to counter Japanese forces and later to establish influence over territories formerly controlled by Japan.
- Support for Viet Minh: The KMT provided some support to the Viet Minh against the French and Japanese. This included military aid and training, as the KMT was fighting its own battles against communism and wanted to destabilize colonial powers in the region.
- Indirect Assistance: While the KMT did not formally ally with the Viet Minh, their actions helped the Viet Minh consolidate power. The chaos of post-war politics allowed the Viet Minh to gain popular support by positioning themselves as the primary force for Vietnamese independence.
Consequences
- Increased Power: The assistance and the political environment allowed the Viet Minh to grow in strength and legitimacy, leading to their pivotal role in the struggle for Vietnam’s independence.
- Civil War in China: The eventual defeat of the KMT by the CCP in 1949 led to the KMT retreating to Taiwan, further complicating the political landscape in Asia and influencing Vietnam's trajectory.
In summary, while the Kuomintang's support was not a formal alliance, their actions during the chaotic post-war period contributed to the rise of the Viet Minh and their eventual success in establishing an independent Vietnam.
Simple answer: Kuomintang never helped the Viet Minh.
During World War II Kuomintang didn’t help Viet Minh at all. In fact instead of helping Viet Minh Kuomintang arrested Ho Chi Minh who was the Vietminh leader in 1942.
After World War Two, Kuomintang fought Chinese Communist Party and entered North Vietnam with slogan “Diệt Cộng, Cầm Hồ” ( Eliminate Communists, Arrest Ho).
So no need to elaborate further.
The Nationalist China supported South Vietnam during the Vietnam War. Both were anti-communist Asian nations fighting against rival communist regimes, Red China and N. Vietnam.
From November 1967, the ROC secretly operated a cargo transport detachment to assist the US and the ROV. It was based on existing formation of the 34th squadron of ROC Air force. The unit's strength included two cargo aircraft, seven flight officers and two mechanics, even though a higher number of military personnel was involved through rotation. It was tasked with air transportation, airdrop and electronic reconnaissan
The Nationalist China supported South Vietnam during the Vietnam War. Both were anti-communist Asian nations fighting against rival communist regimes, Red China and N. Vietnam.
From November 1967, the ROC secretly operated a cargo transport detachment to assist the US and the ROV. It was based on existing formation of the 34th squadron of ROC Air force. The unit's strength included two cargo aircraft, seven flight officers and two mechanics, even though a higher number of military personnel was involved through rotation. It was tasked with air transportation, airdrop and electronic reconnaissance. Some 25 members of the unit were killed, among them 17 pilots and co-pilots, and three aircraft were lost. Other ROC involvement in Vietnam included a secret listening station, special reconnaissance and raiding squads, military advisers and civilian airline operations (which cost a further two aircraft due to Vietnamese individually operated AA missiles).
1.
The ROC also provided military training units for the South Vietnamese diving units. The ROC trained units would eventually become the Lien Doi Nguoi Nhai (LDMN) or Frogman unit in English.
2.
In addition to the diving trainers there were several hundred military personnel.
3.
Military commandos from the ROC were captured by communist forces three times, on 16 July 1961, July 1963 and again on 23 October 1963, trying to infiltrate North Vietnam.
4.
The island of Taiwan was a popular R&R location for US military service members.
In 1940, Vietnam was a part of French Indochina.
It was divided into three parts (very reminiscent of Caesar’s Commentaries): Tonkin, Annam and Cochinchina.
Cochinchina was a French colony. Tonkin and Annam were French protectorates nominally ruled by the Emperor of Annam. From 1926, the Emperor was Bảo Đại, and from 1940, the Governor-General was Jean Decoux.
Bảo Đại and Decoux
On June 22, 1940, France signed an armistice with Nazi Germany. Most French colonies and protectorates, including Indochina, passed under the authority of the Vichy government. It meant that French colonial administrators
In 1940, Vietnam was a part of French Indochina.
It was divided into three parts (very reminiscent of Caesar’s Commentaries): Tonkin, Annam and Cochinchina.
Cochinchina was a French colony. Tonkin and Annam were French protectorates nominally ruled by the Emperor of Annam. From 1926, the Emperor was Bảo Đại, and from 1940, the Governor-General was Jean Decoux.
Bảo Đại and Decoux
On June 22, 1940, France signed an armistice with Nazi Germany. Most French colonies and protectorates, including Indochina, passed under the authority of the Vichy government. It meant that French colonial administrators of Indochina now had to be subservient to the Japanese. Decoux did his best to manoeuvre between Japan, Britain and the U.S., but without much success. In 1940, Japanese forces were stationed in Indochina. In 1941, they took de facto control of the country, though nominally recognizing the French authority.
Ho Chi Minh, the leader of the Indochinese Communist Party, then proclaimed that independence of Vietnam superseded a communist revolution as a main goal and invited everyone to join him. In May 1941, he established Viet Minh, or the League for the Independence of Vietnam - a strong anti-colonial movement. They were supported by Nationalist China, though not without reservations (at one stage, Ho Chi Minh was even held prisoner). They started building up their network to encompass the whole of Vietnam, collecting intelligence, establishing horizontal links and disseminating political enlightenment. In late 1944, Viet Minh already was strong enough to form the Vietnam Liberation army under Võ Nguyên Giáp and start attacking colonial French outposts. Ho Chi Minh also asked permission to visit the U.S. and give lectures but was denied a visa.
Ho Chi Minh and Võ Nguyên Giáp
In March 1945, Japanese decided to do away with French colonial Indochina. They proclaimed the independent Empire of Vietnam under Bảo Đại as a part of the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere.
When Japan surrendered, Viet Minh, who patiently waited for this moment, seized control of most of the country. The Emperor Bảo Đại abdicated and was appointed Supreme Advisor to Ho Chi Minh, greatly increasing his legitimacy. On 2 September 1945, Ho Chi Minh declared independence of Vietnam, invoking the American Declaration of Independence. Of course, the French soon retook control of their colony, but it was never whole anymore. A new reality began. Viet Minh continued fighting, and some Japanese soldiers entered its ranks.
I could end the answer here but there is one more fascinating story about Vietnam in World War II that is definitely worth telling. But for the context, we need to go back.
In 1883, the French established their control over Vietnam. The colony was very rich but difficult to control. They wanted to rule through the emperors of Vietnam but they did not find them compliant enough. The French used the fact that the pool of princes was very big. So if an emperor did not suit them, they could depose him, kill him, exile him to Algeria or declare him insane - and then they would promptly replace him with another. Unfortunately, for a long time the emperors they chose were either resistant to French rule or very depraved, which compromised both the emperors and their colonial masters. Finally, they chose an 8-year-old child, Vĩnh San, enthroned him under the name of Duy Tân and gave him a perfect French education. The boy was a perfect pupil… but he was also a patriot. At the age of 16, he left the palace to join an anti-French rebellion.
Vĩnh San was deposed by the French and exiled to Reunion Island near the coast of Madagascar. He became a locksmith and a radio amateur and led a peaceful life for twenty-three years.
In June 1940, he was the only one on Reunion Island to hear the appeal of General de Gaulle. He decided to join the French Resistance. He was jailed but liberated when the Free French took control of the island in 1942. He joined the navy as a radio telegrapher. For his service, he was finally promoted to lieutenant-colonel and awarded the Grand Cross of the Legion of Honour and the Officer's Médaille de la Résistance.
Vĩnh San (Duy Tân) as a child Emperor and as a grown-up French Resistance fighter
De Gaulle met Prince Vĩnh San in December 1945 and gave him permission to come back to Vietnam. He evidently hoped that the Prince could provide an alternative to Ho Chi Minh. Who knows what Vĩnh San would have done? He made quite a few surprising decisions in his life.
However, he never came back home: his plane crashed in Central Africa.
I know that the Kuomintang was allied to Ho Chi Minh’s Viet Minh during the war up to 1945 and it’s victory by the Allies. The U.S. was even allied with Ho Chi Minh up til the conclusion of WW II. Then the U.S. supported the French re-colonizing effort. Uncle “Ho” considered this a switching of sides by the U.S. and this caused his alignment with the U.S.S.R. and later “Red” China after 1949.
But I cannot say that the Kuomintang was still allied with uncle “HO’s” Viet Minh from 1945 to 1949. The Viet Cong replaced the activities of the Viet Minh about 1960 I understand.
In my opinion, the combined North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong guerilla forces won due to apathy on the part of the majority of the people who lived in what was then South Vietnam.
As a young soldier in Army Military Intelligence in Quang Tri Province in 1970 to 1971, I conducted many interrogations. Some were of North Vietnamese soldiers and some were of South Vietnamese civilians. One occasion has remained with me all these years:
A North Vietnamese Army patrol had passed through a South Vietnamese village and I went to the village to talk with the local civilians. Wanting to learn more a
In my opinion, the combined North Vietnamese Army and the Viet Cong guerilla forces won due to apathy on the part of the majority of the people who lived in what was then South Vietnam.
As a young soldier in Army Military Intelligence in Quang Tri Province in 1970 to 1971, I conducted many interrogations. Some were of North Vietnamese soldiers and some were of South Vietnamese civilians. One occasion has remained with me all these years:
A North Vietnamese Army patrol had passed through a South Vietnamese village and I went to the village to talk with the local civilians. Wanting to learn more about the North Vietnamese unit, I asked questions like - “How many men were in the unit?”, ”What kind of weapons were they carrying?”, “Was any of them carrying a radio?”, etc. As I always did in similar interrogations, I started by asking friendly chat-like questions about their children, how the crops were this year, wasn’t the rain really bad last week, etc. to make them feel relaxed and for things not to be confrontational. So I asked one farmer who he was planning to vote for in the upcoming election for President of the Republic of South Vietnam and his answer told me why the war was unwinnable -
“I do not care who is in charge in Saigon. I do not care who is running the country, even if it is Ho Chi Minh and the Communists. All I care about is the end of all the fighting and whether I can get a good price for the rice I grow”.
Civilian apathy was one of the primary reasons the North Vietnamese forces won.
No.
As the Chinese forces marched into North Vietnam, they ousted local Viet Minh governments, and replaced them with VNQDD, and Dong Minh Hoi groups; Phuc-Quoc (Restoration League) groups seized power elsewhere.
The Communists were motivated by nationalism just as much as the Kuomintang (which actually translates as “Nationalists”), but there were some essential differences. The Kuomintang (the KMT) was a corrupt organization and that rot had spread to its military arm. The basis for the Kuomintang’s power was the wealthy landowners, whose interest was in exploiting the peasants. Chaing Kai Shek’s wife was a member of the Soong family, one of the most powerful in China. It estimated that about 80 % of all US aid sent to China to fight the Japanese and Communists was siphoned off into private hands. Af
The Communists were motivated by nationalism just as much as the Kuomintang (which actually translates as “Nationalists”), but there were some essential differences. The Kuomintang (the KMT) was a corrupt organization and that rot had spread to its military arm. The basis for the Kuomintang’s power was the wealthy landowners, whose interest was in exploiting the peasants. Chaing Kai Shek’s wife was a member of the Soong family, one of the most powerful in China. It estimated that about 80 % of all US aid sent to China to fight the Japanese and Communists was siphoned off into private hands. After the Chinese Civil War, the Soong family was probably the richest family on planet earth, courtesy of the US taxpayer. President Truman, after reading the relevant US government report while the Chinese Civil War was still going on, called the Soongs the biggest ‘crooks’ in the world. He even refused to give any more aid to the Nationalists (the KMT.) The Chinese Nationalist army was starved of resources, and its commanders were probably appointed based upon criteria other than ability ( there was one outstanding exception, which I will cover below.) .
The Communists, on the other hand, were dedicated revolutionaries who based almost their entire program on land reform ( that is, fighting the exploitation of the wealthy landowners and helping the peasants by expropriating the large estates and distributing parcels to the landless peasants who were the overwhelming per centage of the Chinese population.) The Communist cadres had made alliances with the local peasants, who supported the Reds. Thus, when the final showdown came, the peasants not only supported the Communists, they also supplies enormous manpower to them. The war lasted about four years (1946–1949.) There was one final climactic campaign which was called Hwaihai, that lasted about 4 weeks. The organization of KMT forces was so poor, that many began defecting to the Reds. The only troops that withstood the Communist onslaught were the two divisions of the Nationalist army that had been cut off in the Burma campaign against the Japanese for two years, and had been equipped and trained like US army troops under the command of General Stillwell. These were the only KMT troops that held up, and covered the Nationalist retreat that turned into a route that ultimately led to Taiwan as a final destination of exile for Chang and the KMT government. These troops became the basis for the re-constituted Nationalist army on Taiwan.
The domestic reverberations in US politics of the Communist victory in China is a sad, and well known tale. To be brief, it set the atmosphere that enabled an unstable Right wing demagogue like Sen. Joseph McCarthy to actually usher in a short era of hysterical political reaction that bears his name. It probably also directly led to the ill fated and ill considered massive US effort in IndoChina known as the Vietnam War, the affects of which reverberate in the US to this very day.
Thank to its French colonial status, the very first war after WWII was for Vietnam’s independence from the French. The first 2 wars in your modern Vietnam wars list were actually a lengthy struggle to kick out colonial France: The Viet-Minh (call it a Vietnamese resistance united front if you will) managed to seize control of major areas of North Vietnam during the void of power between Nazi Japan’s surrender to allied forces and the re-occupation of France. Of course the French didn't like it, they brought in troops, Vietminh forces retreated to rural/mountainous areas to fight them, and so w
Thank to its French colonial status, the very first war after WWII was for Vietnam’s independence from the French. The first 2 wars in your modern Vietnam wars list were actually a lengthy struggle to kick out colonial France: The Viet-Minh (call it a Vietnamese resistance united front if you will) managed to seize control of major areas of North Vietnam during the void of power between Nazi Japan’s surrender to allied forces and the re-occupation of France. Of course the French didn't like it, they brought in troops, Vietminh forces retreated to rural/mountainous areas to fight them, and so we had the First Indochina war from 1946–1954, culminated with the battle of Dien Bien Phu (quite a famous and influential battle I’d say). Result: complete Vietminh victory. This was the 1st major war.
The war right after that was a bit more complex: to fight back the French, Viet Minh - now a fledgling Vietnamese People’s Army needed weapon and supply from the Soviet federation (the CCCP) and Communist China (the PRC). It’s not like Ho Chi Minh didn’t try the West’s hands, but in the end he had only his good old communist comrades to rely on. Then when Ho Chi Minh finally managed to chase out the French, the West (especially the U.S) freaked out, fearing a domino effect that could turn the whole SEA red. The US intervened, force-partitioned Vietnam into South and North Vietnam with separate general elections to elect 2 different leaders, accompanied by vague promise to ‘unite’ them later. Of course Ho Chi Minh and his communist friends disliked that, so they chose to unite their country (or the 2 countries, depends on who you ask) by force. To this day, there is still no clear consensus of who really caused the war. Was it the US who helped propping up a government then pumping massive amounts of human and material resource for it to be a vanguard against the damnable communists, or the CCCP who ‘ordered’ the newly-born Vietnam to fight a proxy war. Or was it just a civil war? Regardless, this bloody war ended spectacularly in April 30th , 1975 when the army of North Vietnam marched into Saigon (now Ho Chi Minh city). This was the 2nd major war.
The next major war was the Vietnamese-Cambodia war between 1977–1989. Vietnam gladly received material (and sometimes human) aids from both the CCCP and the PRC, but when relationship between the 2 big brothers went sour then the 2 split up in the ‘60s, Vietnam chose to side with the Russia (not exactly so, but you get the idea). That pissed off the PRC’s leaders mightily (some Chinese still call us Vietnamese ‘ungrateful monkeys’ these days). Then a brutal regime called Khmer Rouge with PRC’s blessing pop up in Cambodia next to Vietnam. To make it short: things happened, the Khmer Rouge somehow managed to provoke Vietnam who was at that time a veteran freshly out of 3 decades of non stop fighting. Needless to say when Vietnamese leaders decided to invade Cambodia in 1977, it only took their army 6 days to totally route the Khmer Rouge. And then they propped up a puppet government in Cambodia, just like what the US did 20 years earlier to themselves. It was the 3rd major war.
Of course the PRC wasnt pleased with Vietnam bullying its little Cambodian brother. The 4th major conflict was when the PRC invaded North Vietnam in 1979 to ‘teach Vietnam a lesson’ (their words, not mine). The war lasted only a few days. Despite being a short border conflict, it was brutal nonetheless, with thousands of troops lost for both sides and massive civilian casualty and infrastructural damage to border towns on Vietnam’s side. Typically in communist propaganda fashion, after the Chinese retreat both sides announced victory, and even today no one truly knows how many people died in this war.
The PRC didnt teach Vietnam anything. In the end a large Vietnamese force occupied Cambodia for another 10 years until 1988, while there were constant skirmishes along China-Vietnam border until 1990. Maintaining huge troops presence in both areas drained Vietnam’s resources, helped a hand in ruining its economy, then in the face of the fall of the CCCP in 1990, Vietnam was forced to pull back its soldiers from Cambodia, normalize relationship with the PRC, and seriously embrace a series of economic reforms (or you can say the Vietnam Communist Party was forced to make reform to save itself).
So, TL;DR: there is no definite answer to why there were so many wars in Vietnam after WWII, but I hope you can learn something from my lengthy post. Also you can see I left out all resurgences and border conflicts save for the Sino-Vietnamese war of 1979, since I deemed them not as important as the 4 wars mentioned.
The US did nothing to prop up any communist regime in WWII. Post-WWII they provided economic assistance to Yugoslavia to support Tito against Stalin’s encroachment and in recognition of Tito’s closing his borders to the Greek Communists then using Yugoslavia as a base for their war in Greece.
During WWII Ho Chi Minh was an asset of a civilian intelligence operation connected to British-Canadian intelligence circles, but also providing intelligence to Clair Chennault’s “Flying Tigers” later 14th Air Force. The OSS had no interest in HCM until after the 9 March 1945 Japanese coup against their Vi
The US did nothing to prop up any communist regime in WWII. Post-WWII they provided economic assistance to Yugoslavia to support Tito against Stalin’s encroachment and in recognition of Tito’s closing his borders to the Greek Communists then using Yugoslavia as a base for their war in Greece.
During WWII Ho Chi Minh was an asset of a civilian intelligence operation connected to British-Canadian intelligence circles, but also providing intelligence to Clair Chennault’s “Flying Tigers” later 14th Air Force. The OSS had no interest in HCM until after the 9 March 1945 Japanese coup against their Vichy French military allies in Indochina. This dried up all their information from Indochina, which had previously come from Gaullist partisans in the French military. And at that time, the OSS became interested in “Mr. Hoo”, who claimed to be a non-communist nationalist. HCM provided intelligence on the numbers and locations of US prisoners of War held in northern Vietnam, and convinced the OSS branch in China to send in an OSS military team to train an army of guerrillas. The “Deer Team was sent into northern Vietnam where it began training HCM’s force, numbering approximately a company, which was half-way through training when WWII ended. The whole story can be found in Dixee Barthlomew-Feis’s book: “The OSS and Ho Chi Minh: Allies in the War Against Japan.
Simply put: The US did nothing concrete to assist HCM’s rise to power. A case can be made that Claire Chennault and Archimides Patti did misguidedly assist HCM’s reintegration into the Indochinese Communist Party by such mundane acts as providing him with an autographed photo of General Chennault, providing HCM with a handful of M-1911 Colt Pistols (that HCM passed on to his loyal lieutenants), and assisting HCM in drafting the Vietnamese declaration of independence. (Patti}. HCM had been denying or brushing aside the fact he was a communist, but by September 1945 the OSS had to know of his communist career. When one of the Deer Team members asked him point blank at the end of the war, his response was a sweet smile and a “Does it really matter?”
The KMT would support the French, either politically or militarily.
The KMT was no fan of European colonialism. However, if they won the civil war, due to recent memory they would have DEEPLY HATED Communism, even more than European colonialism.
They would give no space to Communists on East Asia. They would assist the US on Korea or the French on Indochina.
The KMT would support the French, either politically or militarily.
The KMT was no fan of European colonialism. However, if they won the civil war, due to recent memory they would have DEEPLY HATED Communism, even more than European colonialism.
They would give no space to Communists on East Asia. They would assist the US on Korea or the French on Indochina.
Other than the fact that Việt Nam Quốc Dân Đảng (VNQDD) at its founding (1927) adopted some ideas of the Sun Yat-Sen Kuomingtang there was no direct link or relationship between the two political parties until much later. The common ideas adopted by the leadership in 1927 included: armed revolution, and the ultimate goal of founding a republic. In the case of the VNQDD, the armed revolution was aimed at toppling the French rule (as opposed to the struggle against the Qing imperial government as in the Kuomingtang’s case.)
As many VNQDD members went into exile in China after the failed 1930 revo
Other than the fact that Việt Nam Quốc Dân Đảng (VNQDD) at its founding (1927) adopted some ideas of the Sun Yat-Sen Kuomingtang there was no direct link or relationship between the two political parties until much later. The common ideas adopted by the leadership in 1927 included: armed revolution, and the ultimate goal of founding a republic. In the case of the VNQDD, the armed revolution was aimed at toppling the French rule (as opposed to the struggle against the Qing imperial government as in the Kuomingtang’s case.)
As many VNQDD members went into exile in China after the failed 1930 revolt and the French crackdown (the French executed by guillotine 13 party leaders), they formed relationship with the Kuomingtang. As there were multiple factions formed out of the ruin of the original party, the closeness of relationship with the Kuomingtang varied. Some factions were very close with members being trained by the Kuomingtang. Some Vietnamese attended the Whampoa military school, and even gained rank serving in the Kuomingtang military. However the Kuomingtang under Chiang Kai-shek took pain not to anger the French colonial government. The Chinese government officials did their best to discourage any VNQDD plan to raise armed struggle in Vietnam during the 1930s and early 1940s just as they ignored French requests on Vietnamese revolutionaries.
In 1945, as the Kuomingtang army entered Vietnam to disarm the occupying Japanese Army personnel in the North Vietnam, the VNQDD members also returned from China. They joined the Viet Minh government headed by Ho Chi Minh to form a unity government, an uneasy alliance that broke down during Ho Chi Minh’s trip to France. As non-Communists excoriated Ho Chi Minh as a sell-out (a sentiment that was actually shared by some high-ranking Communists) the Communists under Vo Nguyen Giap’s order cracked down on their opponents, killing many. The survivors once again went into exile in China. Many among of this group of exiles never returned to Vietnam as they were trapped after China fell under Communism. Some VNQDD members had to make peace with France as the China sanctuary was no longer available. Nguyen Tuong Tam declared himself to be non-political after 1951. Vu Hong Khanh lost much of the army he built in China as and his troops tried to reenter Vietnam at the end of 1949, and had to surrender to the French.
VNQDD was a weak political party during the South Vietnam era (1954–1975), having no true political influence. The Ngo Dinh Diem government made sure of that. The political party sanctioned by the government was a political party founded by Ngo Dinh Nhu. The government tolerated no opposition. It brought the treason charge against Nguyen Tuong Tam because of his support of the 1960 coup against Diem. The man committed suicide in jail. After Diem’s fall, the VNQDD had a brief revival of influence peaking with one of its members, Phan Huy Quat, taking over the Prime Minister post for 4 months in 1965, a tenure most memorable for the PM not being aware of American Marines landing in Da Nang (the US government made a unilateral decision and did not bother to inform the Vietnamese government.) In June 1965, Nguyen Cao Ky and Nguyen Van Thieu carried out a coup, toppling the government of Phan Huy Quat. The rise of Nguyen Van Thieu marked the end of VNQDD’s hope for gaining control in the top tier of the South Vietnamese government, as Thieu’s political apparatus was no less formidable than that of Diem.
After the fall of Saigon, many VNQDD ranking members were sent to reeducation camps, including those with advanced age (Vu Hong Khanh and someone I personally knew.) Some like Phan Huy Quat died in jail (after he was arrested during an attempt to escape the country.) Vu Hong Khanh died of old age after being released from the camp. VNQDD now only exists in the open outside of Vietnam.
I read once, I think it was in General Westmoreland’s book “A Soldier Reports”, that Taiwan offered to send troops, but the US didn’t want this to happen, for fear that it might provoke a response from mainland China.
First the French tried to keep them a colony, and then the Americans imposed a right wing capitalist dictatorship on them. Ho Chi Minh, the leader of the Vietnamese, who, the US acknowledged, would have been virtually elected by acclaim as the leader of Vietnam, had they allowed free elections, was initially a fan of the American revolution and the declaration of independence. When America try to subjugate his country, he moved over to the Marxist Leninist pole.
There weren’t many wars, there was just one: the war for Vietnamese independence. There were many players, and several phases — including interims of relative calm — but only one goal and one national leader.
Ho Chi Minh became a known activist for Vietnamese self-determination in the 1920’s. The French overlords of Indochina paid him little attention. When France was defeated by the Nazis at the beginning of World War II, their Japanese allies took control of the conquered nation’s Asian possessions.
Though it is not well-known in the west, most of the troops Japan sent to occupy French Indochi
There weren’t many wars, there was just one: the war for Vietnamese independence. There were many players, and several phases — including interims of relative calm — but only one goal and one national leader.
Ho Chi Minh became a known activist for Vietnamese self-determination in the 1920’s. The French overlords of Indochina paid him little attention. When France was defeated by the Nazis at the beginning of World War II, their Japanese allies took control of the conquered nation’s Asian possessions.
Though it is not well-known in the west, most of the troops Japan sent to occupy French Indochina were Koreans. Koreans were often used to maintain Japanese conquests. They were also used in the Philippines and Burma. It’s one reason many Asians despise Koreans, even to this day.
The Japanese/Korean occupation of Indochina was brutal for Europeans there, and only slightly less so for the natives. The area was plundered of its wealth and natural resources. No thoughts of self-determination were considered.
At the end of World War II, the Allies planned for a joint surrender of Japanese forces in Vietnam: the Chinese would accept surrender and take over management in the north, while the British (under Lord Mountbatten) would do the same in the south. Vietnamese reaction was immediate. The enmity between the Vietnamese and the Chinese had existed for centuries, and the return of European overlords was denied as well. Massive demonstrations led Mountbatten to release and arm his Japanese (i.e., Korean) captives to restore order.
From that time until 1975, Vietnamese fought for independence from Europe. Viet Minh defeat of the French at Dien Bien Phu won them half a nation. The final defeat of the southern generals finally won them the rest.
A committed Vietnamese nationalist, Ho Chi Minh tried during the (post-WWI) Versailles Peace Conference to get Vietnamese aspirations for sovereignty (from colonial rule by the French) on the agenda. Vietnamese efforts were not acknowledged, so Ho was gradually radicalized as he turned toward the remaining significant anti-colonialist force on the planet: the Soviet Union, and Communism.
Once the Japanese lost WWII, Ho and the Vietminh had a window of opportunity to overthrow the French - but the US, concerned about Global Communism encroachment on “The Free World”, and trying to keep France as
A committed Vietnamese nationalist, Ho Chi Minh tried during the (post-WWI) Versailles Peace Conference to get Vietnamese aspirations for sovereignty (from colonial rule by the French) on the agenda. Vietnamese efforts were not acknowledged, so Ho was gradually radicalized as he turned toward the remaining significant anti-colonialist force on the planet: the Soviet Union, and Communism.
Once the Japanese lost WWII, Ho and the Vietminh had a window of opportunity to overthrow the French - but the US, concerned about Global Communism encroachment on “The Free World”, and trying to keep France as an ally in Western Europe against the Soviet bloc, supported France’s efforts to re-occupy Vietnam. Ho Chi Minh turned to the Chinese Communists, esp. after the latter prevailed in their struggle with the Nationalist Chinese in 1947. Going communist played to Chinese interests, esp. as the Chinese sought to bolster their own territorial security.
So with supplies coming from the Soviet Union, and Communist Chinese (in the latter case, sometimes Lend Lease arms sent to the Chinese Nationalist government) and Chinese advisors, the die was cast. And the Communist discipline and organizational structure appeared to serve well as a semi-clandestine organization gradually building support in marginalized communities within VIetnam. When the US continued support for the French, and later threw its support behind a separatist South Vietnam…
In reading the Wikipedia article on the Kuomintang in Vietnam (Kuomintang [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuomintang#Vietnamese_Nationalist_Party ]), I would say that since it was being controlled by the Chinese and sought to take advantage of various Vietnamese nationalist groups while rejecting Ho Chi Minh’s nationalists because they were supported by the Chinese Communist Party, that Ho Chi Min
In reading the Wikipedia article on the Kuomintang in Vietnam (Kuomintang [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuomintang#Vietnamese_Nationalist_Party ]), I would say that since it was being controlled by the Chinese and sought to take advantage of various Vietnamese nationalist groups while rejecting Ho Chi Minh’s nationalists because they were supported by the Chinese Communist Party, that Ho Chi Minh, being - and speaking - Vietnamese (the Vietnamese Kuomintang leader, Nguyen Hai Than, didn’t speak Vietnamese), having led the fight against the Japanese both before and during the war, and having opposed the reassertion of colonial rights in Vietnam by France after WW II, as the Kuomintang had done, simply attracted more support for his efforts than did the Chinese-led Kuomintang. It should be remembered that Vietnam had long had a love-hate relationship with China - loving the culture, but hating the Chinese penchant for holding its neighbors in a vassal state relationship, with the neighbors paying China tribute in order to take advantage of Chinese trade and protection in ways to which they wouldn’t be privy without such a relationship. That also assured China that the vassal state would not seek to put China at a disadvantage in some way. However, one other aspect that most likely affected the strength of the Kuomintang in Vietnam is that they were an arm of the Chinese nationalists, whom Mao defeated in 1949 and again in 1950, when Chiang Kai-shek sought to regain power by attacking from Taiwan, to which his government and army had fled. The Chinese nationalists in the Kuomintang would have been much more concerned about maintaining and/or regaining power in China than they would have about spreading their ...
In May 1940, when France was defeated by Germany, France’s colonial administration of French Indo-China passed to the Vichy government. But the French in Indo-China were basically in a vice. First asking for British help, administrator and former Governor General George Cotoux joined DeGaulle’s cause and even asked for American help. Britain couldn’t help and the United States wouldn’t help because of her isolationist policy. Cotoux was replaced by Vice Admiral Jean Decoux and French Indo-China, especially Vietnam and the cities of Saigon and Hanoi were occupied by the Japanese who let the Fre
In May 1940, when France was defeated by Germany, France’s colonial administration of French Indo-China passed to the Vichy government. But the French in Indo-China were basically in a vice. First asking for British help, administrator and former Governor General George Cotoux joined DeGaulle’s cause and even asked for American help. Britain couldn’t help and the United States wouldn’t help because of her isolationist policy. Cotoux was replaced by Vice Admiral Jean Decoux and French Indo-China, especially Vietnam and the cities of Saigon and Hanoi were occupied by the Japanese who let the French administer the colony. It is interesting to note, the Japanese allowed the French to put down all Nationalist Rebellions and the Vietnamese loathed the French more than the Japanese. In 1941 Ho Chi Minh returned to Vietnam and formed the Viet Minh, independence movement.
After the Japanese surrendered, Ho Chi Minh declared Vietnamese independence on September 2, 1945. But, it wasn’t to be achieved until 30 years later.
Yes, he did. Actually, Uncle Ho asked for help from Western capitalists first with at least two times and it has been refused: The first time during the Versailles peace conference in late 1919 and early 1920.
And the second time, he asked the U.S President to help.(He didn’t care about himself and wrote up to 12 letters to President Truman, however none of those has been replied)
Then he turned to ask China and USSR for help.
But you should know that the help from China and Russia came in late in the last 1953, but we successfully defeated French army many times before that up to the point Franc
Yes, he did. Actually, Uncle Ho asked for help from Western capitalists first with at least two times and it has been refused: The first time during the Versailles peace conference in late 1919 and early 1920.
And the second time, he asked the U.S President to help.(He didn’t care about himself and wrote up to 12 letters to President Truman, however none of those has been replied)
Then he turned to ask China and USSR for help.
But you should know that the help from China and Russia came in late in the last 1953, but we successfully defeated French army many times before that up to the point France decided to give up.
However, before French army left Vietnam, they decided to show to Vietnam and other colonies knew their places before its master, to show the real power of French army at the final battle in Dien Bien Phu.
Simply put, the VNQDD was weakened and the Viet Minh enjoyed greater native support.
The VNQDD (Vietnamese Kuomintang) was already extremely weakened by the a series of internal conflicts and the failed Yen Bai mutiny. Most of the experienced leadership had been executed by French colonial officials. After this, the VNQDD fled to China where it became more of a branch of the official Kuomintang rather than a discrete organization.
After the Viet Minh established a provisional government in 1945 (after the defeat of the Japanese), the communists conflicted with the rest of the conglomerate Revolu
Simply put, the VNQDD was weakened and the Viet Minh enjoyed greater native support.
The VNQDD (Vietnamese Kuomintang) was already extremely weakened by the a series of internal conflicts and the failed Yen Bai mutiny. Most of the experienced leadership had been executed by French colonial officials. After this, the VNQDD fled to China where it became more of a branch of the official Kuomintang rather than a discrete organization.
After the Viet Minh established a provisional government in 1945 (after the defeat of the Japanese), the communists conflicted with the rest of the conglomerate Revolutionary League (which included all the anti-French rebel groups). When the VNQDD returned from China, the Viet Minh arrested and massacred them at the China-Vietnam border.
In the brief period between the removal of the Japanese and the return of the French, the Viet Minh and VNQDD had a brief coalition government, but there were still skirmishes between the two forces. The VNQDD accused the Viet Minh of electoral fraud and the Viet Minh accused the VNQDD of being Kuomintang puppets.
Ho Chi Minh later signed the Ho-Saiteny Agreement, which made Vietnam a special state of the French Union and allowed French troops to return. Both the French and Viet Minh surrounded VNQDD forces, easily crushing any resistance. Ho Chi Minh had a fake “torture chamber” built in the VNQDD Hanoi HQ after it was captured; he had the VNQDD leadership arrested, tried in kangaroo courts, and executed.
After this, the VNQDD was a joke. After the partition of Vietnam, most VNQDD supporters migrated South. During the Tet Offensive and subsequent Hue Massacre, it is reported that the Viet Cong purposely targeted VNQDD members, who were known for their extreme anti-communist activities.
Question: Did Japan help South Korea/Vietnam/China (countries that were invaded by Japan in WW2) to rebuild the country after WW2?
Answer: Together with South Korea, WB, and ADB; Japan
is always one of the largest ODA contributors to Vietnam since the normalization of Vietnam with the US and the western countries. However, Japan has provided the ODA under the form of aid and/or loan with low interest to rebuild Vietnam after the wars of the Vietnamese with France, the US, and China from 1945–1991, not relating to WW2. There are many mega infrastructures projects provided by Japan such as:Nhat
Footnotes
Question: Did Japan help South Korea/Vietnam/China (countries that were invaded by Japan in WW2) to rebuild the country after WW2?
Answer: Together with South Korea, WB, and ADB; Japan
is always one of the largest ODA contributors to Vietnam since the normalization of Vietnam with the US and the western countries. However, Japan has provided the ODA under the form of aid and/or loan with low interest to rebuild Vietnam after the wars of the Vietnamese with France, the US, and China from 1945–1991, not relating to WW2. There are many mega infrastructures projects provided by Japan such as:Nhat Tan bridge built from the Japan ODA
T2- Noi Bai International Airport, Vietnam
Bai Chay bridge
Now, Japan is building the First Urban Railway for Ho Chi Minh - Ben Thanh Sieu Tien but it seems to be also delayed.
Ben Thanh Suoi Tien project
The Vietnamese should hope that this Japanese ODA project will not become the Chinese ODA protect - Cat Linh Ha Dong which has been delayed many times. Now, the people seem to be tired of the Chinese ODA project - Cat Linh Ha Dong for being delayed many times.
Cat Linh-Ha Dong Chinese ODA Project
The total ODA from Japan for Vietnam during the last 20 years is around 1900 billion yen (or 56,05 billion USD), accounting for 71,69% of the total committed ODA, of which, the amount of ODA with preferential rate is 51.606 billion (or 88.4%), and the non-return ODA amount is 6.67 billion USD (or 11.6%).
Lusia Millar
Footnotes
49 years ago this coming April I returned from service in Vietnam with the U. S. Army’s 25th Infantry Division. The day before other returnees and I boarded a “Freedom Flight” at Tan Son Nhut Airbase just outside the S. Vietnamese capitol city, Saigon. Because intelligence reports indicated that a VC/NVA attack on the airbase was imminent, we were hustled on board the chartered plane with no time to wash up or change into clean uniforms, so we wore whatever we had on in the jungles and rice paddies when we arrived at the base. We stunk to high heaven, though we really only knew that because we
49 years ago this coming April I returned from service in Vietnam with the U. S. Army’s 25th Infantry Division. The day before other returnees and I boarded a “Freedom Flight” at Tan Son Nhut Airbase just outside the S. Vietnamese capitol city, Saigon. Because intelligence reports indicated that a VC/NVA attack on the airbase was imminent, we were hustled on board the chartered plane with no time to wash up or change into clean uniforms, so we wore whatever we had on in the jungles and rice paddies when we arrived at the base. We stunk to high heaven, though we really only knew that because we noticed the civilian flight attendants occasionally wrinkling their noses while they tried to maintain smiles. They were pretty cool about it though and we were quite used to it so no problem.
As our plane taxied for takeoff, the base came under rocket attack – we could see the rounds hitting buildings we knew other returnees were in awaiting their own Freedom Birds – but we never knew if they had become combat casualties on their own last day in ‘Nam. Our pilot put the “pedal to the metal” though and we got out of there safely.
It was a long flight, but we were all exhausted so most of us slept through most of it until we made a brief stop for refueling midway across the Pacific and then we slept again until we were on approach to San Francisco Airport. (Did I mention that we still stunk?) When the announcement was made by the pilot that we would be landing “in the World” soon we finally became both exhilarated and wide awake – and just a bit nervous that something was bound to go wrong at the last minute as that had been our collective experience in the war. Well, something did go wrong. Really wrong.
Just as we approached San Francisco our plane suddenly diverted into a holding pattern over the Pacific, circling for what seemed an eternity before the pilot informed us – with no explanation – that our flight had been diverted north to the Norton Air Force Base. Now we became both concerned and a bit angry when the flight attendants would not, or could not, tell us what was going on. And so we continued to stink for a while longer.
At Norton, after we landed and boarded buses for the Oakland Army Base and out-processing, we finally learned that our plane had been diverted because police and airport security could not guarantee our safety given the number of protestors swarming the airport. Now we were really pissed off in addition to smelling like that.
At Oakland we finally got to take long, hot showers and were issued clean and crisp new summer khaki uniforms before being ushered into a briefing room where we were paid and received travel authorizations for our bus, train or plane travel home – and advice to go immediately to the Base PX to buy civilian clothes to wear when we left the Base, in small groups only, so we didn’t become targets for protestors. Most of us refused, unwilling to sneak back into our own country, so we walked out in formation in full uniform with our battle and service ribbons on our chests. Did I say we didn’t stink anymore, except perhaps on the inside?
My family back in Massachusetts knew I was due home soon but I did not tell them a specific date or call to say I was home safe as I wanted to surprise them, so I boarded a flight to Boston and looked forward to leaving Vietnam behind me forever. But that was not to be as I soon learned at Logan Airport. There I encountered a young couple who came up to me, fingers pointing, demanding to know “how many innocent people I had killed” in the war. Well by that time I had already concluded that the war was both unjust and unjustifiable so in some ways I was on their side, but I was not about to take the blame for it as that fell entirely to our political and military leaders, not to those of us who served there. So, my response was “I lost count, but two more won’t make any difference to me – get out of my way.” I guess they felt that I still had some stink on me.
My first night in Boston, before taking a cab home to the South Shore the next day, was spent at my grandmother’s apartment in Cambridge where she doted on me and where I made her promise not to call my parents so I could surprise them the next day. And that was the first night of many yet to come when I was awakened by a nightmare as a police cruiser or fire truck went by the apartment with siren blaring in the middle of the night. The next morning my grandma forgave me for the damage I did to the spare room, but she was old enough to remember returnees from both World Wars, so I guess she had become tougher and more understanding than I was back then. I guess you could say that I had raised a stink, but she didn’t, so it was cool.
When I arrived at home the next day, fully expecting a Norman Rockwell moment, our German Shepherd dog, Teddy, ran up to me as I got out of the cab – and nipped me in the leg instead of smothering me with doggy kisses. I guess I should have called ahead after all. Or maybe he smelled something strange about me and wasn’t really sure who I was.
Except for the broken skin on my calf, homecoming was great and so I settled in and enjoyed my leave until it was time to report back for duty with a Bomb Disposal Unit at Fort Sam Houston, Texas. And then the trouble started as I found myself consumed with anger and bitterness for all that had happened, not only to me but to all of us who served in Vietnam. We felt betrayed by our countrymen, but also betrayed by our leaders for getting us into that ugly morass in the first place. Like all too many returnees I was quicker with my fists than I was with my brain when provoked. Like many I found I could not sleep through the night unless I anesthetized myself with drugs or alcohol. Like many I felt I was walking on a tightrope and it would only take the slightest push to knock me off. I was home. I was safe. And I still stunk.
I won’t drag this story on as to how I broke through and finally came to find peace within myself with all that had happened, how I finally managed to wash off the stink that seemed to cling to me for many years. That’s for another day. But my own message to those who tell me “Thank you for your service” today is this: What are you doing to support those who do the fighting on your behalf while electing leaders who will at least think of the consequences before committing those Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen and Marines to…bearing that stink?
Not to be confuse with the France’s Foreign legion which were make of troops from multiple part of the France Empire.
French Foreign legion, which their forces are make up of none French. Mostly Ex-Nazi veteran from WW2 who which to disappears from society than facing their war crime against Jew, Russian and other minor ethnics. If they fought for France and got injure, they can become a French citizen.
So French send them to do War crime in each section of France colonies where some of their crime are recorded, but they aren’t French, so technically France commit no War crime in Indochina.
Yeah,
Not to be confuse with the France’s Foreign legion which were make of troops from multiple part of the France Empire.
French Foreign legion, which their forces are make up of none French. Mostly Ex-Nazi veteran from WW2 who which to disappears from society than facing their war crime against Jew, Russian and other minor ethnics. If they fought for France and got injure, they can become a French citizen.
So French send them to do War crime in each section of France colonies where some of their crime are recorded, but they aren’t French, so technically France commit no War crime in Indochina.
Yeah, don’t think we Viet are easy prey when we got stabs off guard. We show you what a green hell would look like. There are no running from your past, no citizenship for you!
Welcome to the Jungle, Fascist!
If you are not a fascist, but a part of the troops from a colony, like Algeria. Sorry.
Here are some excerpts from 1940–46 in the Vietnam War:
9 September 1945
The main force of a 150,000 man Chinese army arrived in Hanoi to accept the surrender of Japanese forces and preserve law and order north of the 16th parallel of Vietnam. Many accounts described the Chinese soldiers as like "a swarm of locusts." Ho Chi Minh initially cooperated with the Chinese who unceremoniously evicted the French from the Governor-General's Palace.[42] American advisers accompanied the Chinese but were ordered "not be become involved...in French-Chinese relations or in any way become associated with eith
Here are some excerpts from 1940–46 in the Vietnam War:
9 September 1945
The main force of a 150,000 man Chinese army arrived in Hanoi to accept the surrender of Japanese forces and preserve law and order north of the 16th parallel of Vietnam. Many accounts described the Chinese soldiers as like "a swarm of locusts." Ho Chi Minh initially cooperated with the Chinese who unceremoniously evicted the French from the Governor-General's Palace.[42] American advisers accompanied the Chinese but were ordered "not be become involved...in French-Chinese relations or in any way become associated with either side in possible conflicts."[43]
26 September
French general Marcel Alessandri, visiting Hanoi, asked help of U.S. General Gallagher in persuading the Chinese military forces to release all French prisoners, rearm the French police and military, and return control of the radio station and public utilities to the French. The Chinese commander agreed only to release French prisoners.[53]
27 September
In a meeting with U.S. Army officers General Gallagher and Major Patti, Ho Chi Minh "expressed the fear that the Allies considered Indochina a conquered country and that the Chinese came as conquerors." Gallager and Patti attempted to reassure him and urged continued negotiations with the French.[54]
11 November
At a meeting in Hanoi the Indochina Communist Party dissolved itself, citing a need to foster national unity in search of independence from France as the reason. Communist domination of the Viet Minh had been criticized by other nationalist groups and Ho Chi Minh had apparently decided that unity was more important for the moment than communist ideology.[61]
1 December
Ho Chi Minh began negotiations in Hanoi with French Commissioner for Tonkin, Jean Sainteny. Ho's concern was that the 150,000 Chinese troops in northern Vietnam would not go home and that they were aiding the Viet Minh's rival nationalist groups, the Vietnamese Nationalist Party and the Nationalist Party of Greater Vietnam. Ho had decided to seek cooperation with the French even thought that might delay Vietnam attaining independence from France.[62]
12 December
U.S. General Gallagher departed Hanoi and shut down the U.S. advisory mission in northern Vietnam. The U.S. was blamed by the French for colluding with the Viet Minh and by the Viet Minh for facilitating the resumption of French control over Indochina[63]
1 January
After negotiations with other nationalist groups, a new government in Hanoi was set up with Ho Chi Minh as President and Nguyen Hai Than as Vice President. Elections were to follow to elect a national assembly with some seats guaranteed to two nationalist organizations. Earlier, Ho had abolished the communist party of Vietnam to emphasize his nationalist credentials.[65]
20 February
Despite his apparent success pacifying Cochinchina General Leclerq appealed to France to grant concessions to the Viet Minh. At this time Ho Chi Minh was engaged in negotiations with French representative Sainteny in Hanoi. De Gaulle and d'Argenlieu opposed any concessions toward independence for Vietnam.[69]
27 February
Twenty-one thousand French soldiers boarded ships in Saigon for Tonkin with the goal of reoccupying northern Vietnam, putting pressure on Ho Chi Minh to come to terms in his negotiations with France about the future of Vietnam, and gaining the release of 3,000 French soldiers still held prisoner in Hanoi.[70]
28 February
France completed an agreement with the Chinese government for the withdrawal of Chinese soldiers from Vietnam north of the 16th parallel.[71]
Viet Minh leader Ho Chi Minh sent a telegram to U.S. President Truman appealing to the U.S. "to interfere urgently in support of our [Vietnamase] independence." This was one of several letters and telegrams that Ho sent to the United States appealing for support. The U.S. never answered him.[72]
6 March
In the morning, the French armada of 35 ships and 21,000 men attempted to land at Haiphong in Tonkin. Their landing was prevented by Chinese soldiers occupying the harbor who exchanged fire with the French ships. The Chinese pressured both the French and the Vietnamese to sign an agreement.
In the afternoon, Ho Chi Minh and Sainteny concluded a provisional agreement. France recognized the "Republic of Vietnam" as a "free state" within the French Union. The Vietnamese agreed to the stationing of 25,000 French troops for five years in Tonkin to replace the departing Chinese. France agreed to allow an election to decide whether the three regions of Vietnam would be united.
Ho Chi Minh was severely criticized by other nationalists for the agreement, which offered Vietnam less than independence and that only on a provisional basis. He reportedly said that "I prefer to sniff French shit for five years than eat Chinese shit for the rest of my life."[73]
15 June
The last Chinese soldiers departed northern Vietnam. The Chinese army apparently delayed its departure in order to extract as much wealth as possible from their occupation.[79]
20 October
Ho Chi Minh arrived in Haiphong after an absence of more than 4 months. He had been negotiating, with little success, for Vietnamese independence with the French government in Paris.[84] In has absence, Viet Minh military leader Vo Nguyen Giap had prepared for war with the French. With the departure of the Chinese army in June, Giap had crushed the pro-Chinese nationalist groups in northern Vietnam, killing hundreds or thousands of their followers and, despite a cease fire, engaged the French when they attempted to expand their control out of the cities to the countryside. The Viet Minh, said historian Frederik Logevall, "previously had genuine legitimacy in calling themselves a broad-based nationalist front" but were now "synonymous with the Communist movement."[85]
The Viet Minh were a broad-based nationalist political movement that started in the late 1930’s and later became the government in Hanoi after May 1954. The military arm was the “People’s Army of Vietnam” (PAVN) which was founded around 1940 to fight the French, then the Japanese and Vichy French during WW-2, then the French during the First Indochina War (1946–54). It later worked alongside the NLF from June 1965 when the PAVN started moving south of the DMZ.
The National Liberation Front of Southern Vietnam was founded at a conference just outside of Saigon in December 1959. The people who at
The Viet Minh were a broad-based nationalist political movement that started in the late 1930’s and later became the government in Hanoi after May 1954. The military arm was the “People’s Army of Vietnam” (PAVN) which was founded around 1940 to fight the French, then the Japanese and Vichy French during WW-2, then the French during the First Indochina War (1946–54). It later worked alongside the NLF from June 1965 when the PAVN started moving south of the DMZ.
The National Liberation Front of Southern Vietnam was founded at a conference just outside of Saigon in December 1959. The people who attended were Lawyers, Buddhist monks, Trade union official, nationalists of several opinions, former Viet Minh and PAVN who were southerners and remained behind after 1954, and a few communists. It was both a political and military organization.
The first operation by the NLF was in March 1960 against an ARVN police station where they stole the weapons etc.
By the time the NLF was founded, the Hanoi government was no longer ruled by the Viet Minh, but primarily by the Vietnamese Communist Party.
1945:
From the begin of 1945, The French shared the right to rule Vietnam with the Japanese since the Japanese army was largely outnumber. A terrible famine which occurred last year continued to kill millions of Vietnamese. It was the result from both French and Japanese brutal resource extraction to support WW2 as well as crop failure.
On March, The Japanese operated coup d'état to replace French government in Indochina, including Vietnam. Afterward, they installed a puppet government named The Empire of Vietnam to display fake independence they granted Vietnam.
Meanwhile, Viet Minh cooperated w
1945:
From the begin of 1945, The French shared the right to rule Vietnam with the Japanese since the Japanese army was largely outnumber. A terrible famine which occurred last year continued to kill millions of Vietnamese. It was the result from both French and Japanese brutal resource extraction to support WW2 as well as crop failure.
On March, The Japanese operated coup d'état to replace French government in Indochina, including Vietnam. Afterward, they installed a puppet government named The Empire of Vietnam to display fake independence they granted Vietnam.
Meanwhile, Viet Minh cooperated with the Allies, particularly OSS - the predecessor of the CIA - in the fight against the Japanese. After the Japanese declaration of surrender on 15 August, Viet Minh operated August Revolution to take back the government. Bao Dai, the emperor of Vietnam, abdicated shortly after that.
On 2 September 1945, Ho Chi Minh red Vietnamese Declaration of Independence and established Democratic Republic of Vietnam government. (DRV).
Also on September, due to Potsdam Agreement, The Chinese and The British went to Vietnam to disarm the Japanese in the north and the south of Vietnam respectively (divided by the 16th parallel). While The Chinese accepted the new government of Vietnam, The British didn’t. They supported the French on re-invading South Vietnam.
1946:
From October 1945 to January 1946, DRV operated general election. Ho Chi Minh became the president of DRV while many people from different parties were elected to parliament. Meanwhile, Ho Chinh wrote several letters and telegrams to the US to ask for recognition but none was responded because the US chose the French.
On February, the French signed an accord with the Chinese. The Franco-Sino accord shows that the French gave up its economic benefit in China in exchange of replacing Chinese army in North Vietnam.
On 6 March, the French went to the North and had some engagements with the Japanese despite their agreement. In order to avoid increasing confliction, DRV signed a preliminary accord with the French. It stated that DRV accepted the French to replace the Chinese. However, the French would have to withdraw after five years and South Vietnam woud joint DRV by referendum. Besides, DRV would became free country in The French Union and Indochinese Federation.
After that, the Chinese withdrew. Some parties lost support from the Chinese and planed ahead terrorism activities. General Vo Nguyen Giap found out and eliminated all of them. From April to May, DRV met the French at Dalat conference to discuss about future of Vietnam but no conclusion was drawn.
On June, the French disrespected the accord and installed Autonomous Republic of Cochinchina (Cochinchina stood for South Vietnam) right before Fontainebleau conference. On July, Ho Chi Minh led a delegation group to fly to Paris for Fontainebleau conference. Once again, no treaty was fruited. Ho Chi Minh signed modus vivendi with the French, which was not much different from the previous preliminary accord.
The modus vivendi bought a little time for peace since the tension in Vietnam was increasing dramatically. From November, several engagements happened between the French and DRV, mainly in Hai Phong and Ha Noi. on 19 December, Ho Chi Minh made an appeal for national resistance against the French. Many cities rose up to fight against the French while the government evacuated to remote forested and mountainous areas in Northwest Vietnam.
1947:
Many diplomatic efforts to find peace were unsuccessful because France wanted the DRV to surrender first while DRV didn’t accept Vietnam to be colonized by French again. Since DRV army was weak, they avoided direct confrontation with the French while carrying out guerrilla attacks.
On October, the French deployed Operation Lea but they failed to capture the headquarter of DRV, especially Ho Chi Minh. However, they successfully caused great damage on DRV army, took control of the 4th road and Chinese-Vietnamese borders, and isolated RVR from the outside.
Meanwhile, French secret agents contacted former Emperor Bao Dai in Hongkong. They convinced him to return to regain authority over Vietnam. On 7 December, Bao Dai met the French on the French warships in Ha Long Bay and signed Ha Long Bay Preliminary Treaty. The treaty shows the agreement to establish State of Vietnam, a puppet government in The French Union.
Conclusion:
Then would be the next eight years of resistance against the French. No one believed that the Vietnamese could beat the French until the miracle of Dien Bien Phu happened. However, the birth of State of Vietnam, the predecessor of the Republic of Vietnam, signaled a division lasting 20 years during Vietnam War.
No, the two groups existed in different time periods.
The Viet Minh was a communist army that existed from 1941 to 1954. It fought against the French, mostly in the North. In 1954, it gained control of Hanoi and became the North Vietnamese army. At least, this is the usage of English-language writers. The official name was propagandistic and changed several times.
“Vietcong” refers to communist forces in the South in the 1960s and 1970s. The term originated in the Saigon press as a shortened form of “Vietnamese communist.” They fought against the South Vietnamese government and against the Unite
No, the two groups existed in different time periods.
The Viet Minh was a communist army that existed from 1941 to 1954. It fought against the French, mostly in the North. In 1954, it gained control of Hanoi and became the North Vietnamese army. At least, this is the usage of English-language writers. The official name was propagandistic and changed several times.
“Vietcong” refers to communist forces in the South in the 1960s and 1970s. The term originated in the Saigon press as a shortened form of “Vietnamese communist.” They fought against the South Vietnamese government and against the United States. Some of the early members of the Vietcong had previously belonged to the Viet Minh. The group was controlled by Hanoi, a “front” in communist terminology. People will say that this or that was the group’s “official” name, whatever that means. In truth, they created new names for themselves all the time: National Liberation Front for South Vietnam, Provisional Revolutionary Government of the Republic of South Vietnam, Liberation Army of South Vietnam, and so on. People in the Vietcong would say that they worked for “the front” (Mặt trận), a bit like Mafia members. There was a Vietcong flag, but most units flew the North Vietnamese flag, which is the same as the current Vietnamese flag.
Here is the Viet Minh and early North Vietnamese flag. The star was adjusted in 1955.
KMT started out as a people's choice, and Sun Yatsen teamed up with the newly formed CPC to hopefully unite the country and rule China based on a socialist Doctrine. Unfortunately, Sun died in 1925, and KMT faced coup detat almost immediately. Chiang won the coup and turned KMT into a capitalist /landlord/mafia supported regime. CPC and the KMT lefties were cleansed from the KMT. CPC Red Army had to retreat from Kiangsi region and move to Shaanxi. Along the Long March, many peasants got help from the Red Army to fight the landlords’ militias and in turn they provided help to the Red Army. The
KMT started out as a people's choice, and Sun Yatsen teamed up with the newly formed CPC to hopefully unite the country and rule China based on a socialist Doctrine. Unfortunately, Sun died in 1925, and KMT faced coup detat almost immediately. Chiang won the coup and turned KMT into a capitalist /landlord/mafia supported regime. CPC and the KMT lefties were cleansed from the KMT. CPC Red Army had to retreat from Kiangsi region and move to Shaanxi. Along the Long March, many peasants got help from the Red Army to fight the landlords’ militias and in turn they provided help to the Red Army. The Red Army became the People’s Army.
And in many regions, little soviets (small s) were formed, and the peasants began to learn Chinese characters. Before that, illiteracy was as high as 95%. They were also taught to read newspaper walls, and they began to understand world outside China, and their enemies were the Japanese. It was in such situation that Young Marshal Peter Chang (Zhang Xueliang) decided to help capture Chiang Kai Shek to talk sense into him to defend against China from the Japanese.
The people in China, except those in Northeast, were pro-CPC, so KMT after the WW2 had 5m troops and air and naval superiority, could not match the People Power. US helped enough, but General Joseph Stilwell said Chiang's name was “Cash My Check”. A corrupt force is destined to fail. After US suggestion of dividing the country into North and South along the Yangtze failed, US knew it was too late.
Now, as mentioned, KMT was a regime supported by the capitalists/landlords/mafia, and illiteracy rate was as high as 95%, do you think a China like that would succeed?
The key difference between the Vietnamese VNQDD (Việt Nam Quốc Dân Đảng) and the original Chinese Kuomintang is that the VNQDD were initially started as an anti-French independence movement, whereas the Kuomintang was started after the revolution that overthrew the Qing Empire in 1911 as an off-shoot of the conglomerate Revolutionary Alliance.
During the fight for independence from France, the VNQDD gradually became more and more insignificant as Ho Chi Minh’s Indochinese Communist Party (which was later included in the Viet Minh coalition).
The VNQDD and Chinese Kuomintang were very friendly. A
The key difference between the Vietnamese VNQDD (Việt Nam Quốc Dân Đảng) and the original Chinese Kuomintang is that the VNQDD were initially started as an anti-French independence movement, whereas the Kuomintang was started after the revolution that overthrew the Qing Empire in 1911 as an off-shoot of the conglomerate Revolutionary Alliance.
During the fight for independence from France, the VNQDD gradually became more and more insignificant as Ho Chi Minh’s Indochinese Communist Party (which was later included in the Viet Minh coalition).
The VNQDD and Chinese Kuomintang were very friendly. At one point, the leaders of the VNQDD went into exile in Yunnan (the Chinese province bordering Vietnam) and were trained by the Kuomintang.
It was a period of rapid Communist expansion. Russia had grabbed Eastern Europe, sat on a good chunk of Germany, Czechoslovakia fell to a communist coup in 1948, the Reds had taken China and North Korea. Communists were fighting to take over Greece. Everywhere you looked the Red banner was ascendant. The Viet-Minh were out and out reds aiming to do the same in Vietnam. The West had seen how Hitler advanced in Europe marching into the Rhineland, annexing the Studenland until he unleashed his war machine on Europe. The west was not about to tolerate a replay. The line was being held in Europe, b
It was a period of rapid Communist expansion. Russia had grabbed Eastern Europe, sat on a good chunk of Germany, Czechoslovakia fell to a communist coup in 1948, the Reds had taken China and North Korea. Communists were fighting to take over Greece. Everywhere you looked the Red banner was ascendant. The Viet-Minh were out and out reds aiming to do the same in Vietnam. The West had seen how Hitler advanced in Europe marching into the Rhineland, annexing the Studenland until he unleashed his war machine on Europe. The west was not about to tolerate a replay. The line was being held in Europe, but the push was on in Asia.
I suppose the core of this reason might be based on the Vietnamese opinions towards any parties’ factions for independence of Vietnam during 1920s-1940s had been heavily divided by one who sought independent only by own hands, and one who sought to cooperate with opposite foreign powers against French rule. Based on that factions, the Vietnamese Kuomintang was put on section two (cooperate with any foreign powers to seek independence for Vietnam)
This was the point that not many people know about.
During my research in Nanning over the emergence of Vietnam’s Communist Party, when Ho established
I suppose the core of this reason might be based on the Vietnamese opinions towards any parties’ factions for independence of Vietnam during 1920s-1940s had been heavily divided by one who sought independent only by own hands, and one who sought to cooperate with opposite foreign powers against French rule. Based on that factions, the Vietnamese Kuomintang was put on section two (cooperate with any foreign powers to seek independence for Vietnam)
This was the point that not many people know about.
During my research in Nanning over the emergence of Vietnam’s Communist Party, when Ho established his communist faction to build his ground, he had to align with Communist Soviet, and Communist Party of China. But the Russians were working with both Kuomintang and Communists, while CCP was too weak and had suffered many losses, Ho didn’t feel safe at China
Hence, his attempt was to hide his background and identity, waiting when the Vietnamese Kuomintang became weak then re-emerge. On those days, the Kuomintang was the most powerful branch of the Vietnamese independence movement, having been supported by majority of Vietnamese. The French began their terror operation against the Vietnamese Kuomintang, which seriously weakened the party as well.
Let’s say that Ho didn’t appear for a long time until 1940–41, when he was captured by Chinese troops being thought as a collaborator of Japan. Then he went back. The war between Kuomintang China and Japan was a serious opportunity for Ho because as Kuomintang was getting weakened and would be unable to support the Vietnamese faction, his Communist force would grow and eventually became the only force in Vietnam
He did. When Kuomintang was exhausted after Japan suffered nukes, Ho called for a revolution which sparked his popularity again. Only this time the US agents of the OSS involved as well
Hence, by successfully staging the revolution at 1945 against Japan, Ho and his communist faction had totally damaged the image of Vietnamese Kuomintang. Since then, he could easily create an image about the Vietnamese Kuomintang as a “foreign-controlled faction” and “traitors”. Thus, did Vietnamese want to back the party that already had linked with China’s branch?
Now, what are you referring to must be 1946, but I suppose it must be longer. Ho and his communist party didn’t get famous before 1945 revolution. After August Revolution at 1945, Vietnamese totally on Ho and his communist’s hands. Hence, who would challenge Ho Chi Minh and his Communist group?
On the French side, it didn’t take anyone at all. French rulers both viewed the Vietnamese Communists and Kuomintang were illegal, only Chinese intervention later saved the Kuomintang faction in Vietnam
They were close together as allies against Communism and shared the same Confucianism
They were close together as allies against Communism and shared the same Confucianism
“Could have?” They actually did! The Chinese provided weapons, food, advisors, technology and sanctuary for the North Vietnamese throughout the war. Whenever North Vietnamese Migs couldn't return to their airfields at Phuc Yen or other Northern airfields during U.S. attacks, the NV Migs would escape to Chinese airfields where American aircraft could not pursue. Had the Chinese denied the North Vietnamese access, arms and sanctuary, the U.S. might have fared better in the conflict.