I have seen so many posts here and on Reddit about printer vibration and asking the question “should I buy the anti-vibration feet?”.

From my background in engineering, as a machinist, and an amateur audiophile, I thought that I would provide some detailed information so that users can understand what is really going on and make the choice that works for them.

Purpose

The purpose of anti-vibration feet is to reduce the vibrations transmitted to the surroundings. They are commonly (and more properly) called isolation feet or pads, because they isolate the machine’s vibrations from the surroundings. If you have ever seen a portable generator run you know that the feet are not stopping it from vibrating. :slight_smile:

Isolation pads are usually made of some kind of elastomer that is flexible enough to allow the machine to move independently of the surface that it sits on. In shops with large machinery this can be extremely important as a large machine can shake the entire building without them. Another common use is under speakers when trying to isolate speaker vibrations from other audio equipment. Generators, power transformers, air conditioner compressors almost always have isolation pads.

image

For a 3D printer the pads can help make your desk more usable while printing if the printer is sitting on it.
If you have two printers sitting on the same surface the isolation can help prevent one printer from affecting the other as much.

However, even with the isolation you probably do not have your printer sitting on anything heavy enough to stop it from moving. It does not matter if you have isolation feet or not when the table is light weight and rocks easily, the isolation really will not work. (3D printers are not large machines sitting on a concrete floor.) BBL printers so fast and are so jerky, they are still going to cause the table or other stand to shake, even with the feet.

Printer Vibration

If the goal is to stop the printer from vibrating because the vibrations are affecting the print, then anti-vibration feet are not likely to help. In fact they actually allow the printer frame to move more because it is sitting on something flexible. If you commonly have problems with tall prints it could be because your printer is just moving too much.

There are some forum posts on the right track to reducing the actual vibration (shaking) of the printer. However, I think they combine both isolation and reducing vibrations and do not explain which solution works for which problem.

I want to discuss several solutions for reducing printer vibration (and ignore isolation).

  1. Slow it down.
    The easiest and most effective way to reduce the printer vibration is to slow it down. This is even more applicable to the jerk settings (how fast it accelerates and decelerates) than raw speed. Every time the print head assembly changes velocity there is an opposite reaction in the frame of the printer. The harder the tool head pushes the more the frame moves. If you are having a problem with a specific print you can either tune the various speed and acceleration settings, or you can try just changing to silent mode.

  2. Add Mass
    More mass moves less for a given amount of force. If the printer frame weighed 10 tons then the tool head jerking would still require the frame to absorb the same amount of energy, but the frame would not move noticeably. So, to prevent the printer from moving/vibrating as much you could bolt it to a concrete slab, such as the floor of the garage. It would move much less. This is not a very good solution. And it would not even completely fix the problem because the printer is not made of stiff enough material to prevent flexing. You could bolt it to a concrete block and set a large concrete block on the top of the frame and the solid coupling would effectively raise the mass of the printer and significantly reduce any vibration.

  3. Set the printer on a more stable surface.
    A more reasonable solution and one that many posts get partially right, is to set the printer on an object with a high mass.

    The typical post says: put the printer on a concrete paver on a neoprene pad on your desk.

    I want to break this down, because that solution is mixing isolation and vibration reduction without explaining the benefits and drawbacks, or separating out each part.

    The neoprene pad between the concrete paver and the desk is acting as an isolation pad so that movement of the paver will cause less desk motion that otherwise would happen. This is good if you are trying to keep the desk from moving.

    Setting the printer on the concrete paver without any flexible isolation between is trying to make the mass of the paver part of the mass of the printer. This helps reduce the amount of printer shaking. (It is very convenient that Home Depots sells 16" square concrete pavers for a few dollars and they are just the right size for the printer.) Because the stock printer feet are fairly hard,the coupling is reasonably solid. Bolting the printer frame to the paver would be even better at providing what would be effectively a single object with high mass. I do not know of anyone that has gone that far.

    So, in summary, cheap concrete pavers with your printer setting directly on them is the best easy and economical solution to reduce printer vibration. One is good, but more is better. Do not put isolation pads/feet between the printer and the pavers.

My Current Solution

I modified a combination of #2 and #3 for my printer. I had an old high end audio rack which has pointed feet that go right through the carpet and into the sub-floor. (Audiophiles do this to provide a solid foundation for their equipment. The also often use mass by making turntable bases out of granite and such.) Now I have the stand solidly connection to the frame of the house. The rack is very short and as inflexible as possible. I filled the bottom shelf with concrete pavers and put more on the top shelf under the printer. It is not as solid as a boulder, but it does not move much and not easily. My printer sits directly on the top paver.

I have my Prusa on an ELFA drawer unit. It works just fine. Putting the P1P on one had it moving about six inches side to side.
image

I started with the P1P on an old dresser and it printed fine, even though the entire dresser was moving around. The engineers at BBL did a great job compensating for vibration. I just wanted to try to fix the occasion problems with tall prints and not have to watch it shake so much.

My new setup has very little motion. In addition, some of the problems with printing tall thin objects, or strange surface artifacts are gone.

Note: when you make a change like this be sure to run the full printer setup calibration. The printer resonance frequencies will change significantly.

The Solution will continue to change

After trying one paver, which worked well, I went to buy more pavers and bought the wrong ones. My bottom shelf currently has 12" ones. I plan to get more of the 16" squares.

The other issue is that my printer is really too low. My long term plan is to build a cabinet with drawers to both store supplies and to set the printers on. I will build the cabinet extra stiff to help eliminate flexing. I am going to leave a spot under the bottom drawer for a stack of pavers, and I am going to provide an inset into the top so the printer is sitting on pavers as well. I expect the cabinet ready to use will have a footprint slightly larger than the base of the printer, but will have a working weight of about 250#.

I will add more info as my printer station changes.

Aside: You can skip this because I am just ranting about a pet peeve which is triggered by reading anything about reducing vibrations. BBL calls them anti-vibration feet. This is great, and sort of correct. But, most of the posts in forums and even ads from companies who make such items call them "vibration dampeners", which is false. 1. dampen means "to make slightly wet", such as dampen a cloth to wipe up a spill. (It can also have the emotional meaning such as "that dampened our spirits") 2. damp (as a verb) means to reduce oscillation or vibration. We put sound damping in a room to improve the acoustics. A car has a damper (shock absorber) along with a spring so the uneven road does not cause it to bounce up and down forever. The damper, damps the oscillation and causes the bouncing to quickly stop. Sorry, I just had to put that out there because I see it so much. Almost every listing on Amazon for sound deadening material also calls it sound dampener. Grrr. :wink:
read 17 min

Great write up. I think the bambu feet were meant for shock dampening also. Thats why they were made so soft and with lots of side to side movement. Gives some of the same effect that hanging the printer on a rope has.

Exactly. They allow the printer to move relative to the table below the feet. It reduces the table movement, but allows the printer to shake even more.

Sorry Julie. I didnt realize you had already said the same thing in the last couple paragraphs.

I bought the “anti-vibration” feet (first version) for X1C and they are pretty useless. Feet will eventually pop out from the printer. New version looks better, but I have some doubts if they work properly. I’ve tested the old version of feet with inserts that resemble the new version but the printer couldn’t finish the calibration as there was a constant error that machine is shaking a lot.

I’ve ended up with re-mixing the feet with squash ball holder and ever since it works amazing. No issues with calibrations, print is brilliant and the most importantly I have a peace of mind that printer won’t fall and damage.

link for the stl: Printables 134



@julie777 interesting informations

My side, I have used another printer to print very simple pads (like a cylinder about 20mm height and fitting in the existing feet) using FilaFlex 60A, 25% Gyroide infill, it works like a charm.

May be this will be of some interrest : I have used a modified CR10S Pro with a Bondtech DDv3 Direct Drive Extruder and a 0.6mm CHT Nozzle, it can easily print 60A Shore, it only require to fully unscreew the extruder tensioning screw and increase filament flow to 1.4

I bought the anti vibration feet because my resin printer and P1S are on the same surface. You could put your hand on the resin printer and feel it vibrate. The feet eliminated passing the vibrations to the resin printer.

2 months later

I suspect I did things wrong based on your excellent write-up.

I got the (new) anti-vibration feet with my X1C less than a month ago. I noticed that when I placed the AMS on top they get REALLY squished down. In fact, if you move the printer around and aren’t paying attention the feet will squish diagonally which is not good IMHO.

I then went out and got a 16"x16" paver and put on top of some foam used for packing some random Black Friday equipment purchase. Then I set the printer on top of that with the anti-vibration feet. I suspect this was bad because you said: “Do not put isolation pads/feet between the printer and the pavers.”

Every time I make a change I run a full calibration, but on a recent tall PETG print I saw vertical lines form and continue to get “worse” the taller the print went. I’m 99.9% sure these are vibration related. I ran another full calibration after that and a similar print didn’t seem nearly as bad, so I find it odd I have to run the calibration multiple times.

So, to confirm my suspicion - I should not be using the anti-vibration feet in between the printer and the paver stone, correct?

I’m also curious if anyone else has any thoughts on the use of the anti-vibration feet w/ the AMS on top of the printer - independent of the use of a paver stone w/ padding or not. I swear I read somewhere not to do that (someone even said the AMS was never meant to go on top of the printer being shown that way non-stop in marketing materials).

Again, thank you for a really great write up. It’s nice to have somewhere to go to reality check what I am trying to do with my likely overthought implementation.

Yes.

Essentially, you have a classical Mass-Spring-Damper System. Sitting on a desk, it has hardly any damping and hughe spring stiffness. Key is the mass though. The more mass you have, the less problematic your vibrations will be. So you want to ideally bolt the printer to the biggest concrete block you can. Or at least put it on top of it :wink: And put weight on the printer (i.e. a fully loaded AMS).

If you isolate the printer-paver system by adding anti-vibration feet, you are creating an isolated mass-spring-damper system on top of your desk. This eliminates the chance for the mass of the desk or floor to counteract movement. Mass-spring-damper model - Wikipedia 37
The only case I can see where anti-vibration feet make sense is if you want to stop anything else on the desk from vibrating :wink:

Thank you for that response.

I found this guy’s post where his tests show combining the two methods reduced vibration spikes and overall noise:
Resonance Testing Print - Bambu Lab X1 Series - Bambu Lab Community Forum 184

I think that mirror what you were saying about keeping the desk from vibrating if both are combined. Wouldn’t that reduce the noise overall having the vibrations double intercepted? At the end of the day, I want the least amount of noise possible.

I really wish it wasn’t sooo long ago that I did my MSc in Sound and Vibrations :joy: Or that I would have worked in the field since then.

What I remember from all those years ago tells me that indeed the use of different (!) vibration isolators chained behind each other would quite likely distribute the vibration energy across the spectrum. >This reduces the peaks. It is actually the peaks that we humans usually find most annoying. Just 3dB equates to halving the peak sound pressure. So it can be quite effective from a human perception point of view.
However, to be most effective, the system-of-systems would need to be well tuned. And prefferably transfer the vibration example into heat through internal friction in the damping component. I expect that with a good frequency response function through the feet it would be possible to increase the damping spectrum a bit and print some in TPU.

With sound, it’s more challenging as there’s a whole bunch of transmission paths. Of course secondary noise which emmits from all vibrating surfaces, but more importantly primary noise directly from the printers key emitters (now propably the fans and the print heads jerk) through any air gaps and of course the enclosure. So it is much more difficult to effectively isolate or even dampen noise paths than vibration paths.
Typically, noise cancellation is more effective the closer to the sound source a measure is implemented. With the motors, Bambu is already there. With the fans, it gets more difficult. Usually what is good for airflow is also good for noise reduction so there’ll probably not be so much potential except perhaps blade passing frequency (air gap distance and passing velocity) and serrated nozzle edges (distributing vortex onset).
For a DIY solutions, there’s of course the application of damping material to the printer itself. However, that would probably turn the printer into looking like a very unfortunate accident.
An extra enclosure made from acoustic dampening panels (characterized by a very high mechanical impedance mismatch) and lined with foam cones on the inside should be quite effective though. I know that some people have their printer in a cabinet, so lining application would be fairly straightforward and effective as long as the door can stay closed.

So, I am not really sure if any of that was any use or help at all. Sound and Vibration control is a rather specialized and tricky analytical field. After all, the energy is there and needs be either A) prevented at the source from becoming kinetic, B) converted into other forms of energy like heat or electricity or C) forced to cancel itself out by diverted and/or reflected waves.

While you didn’t specifically get into the point of whether the anti-vibration feel used in combination with a paver & foam under it, while the AMS is on top squishing the anti-vibration feet, you did kind of break my brain. I mean that in a good way.

Seriously that was a very educational post, and I appreciated every bit of it as an AV tech from a long time ago (back before computers took off in a big way). Sincerely thank you!

Hi there!

I am planning on building a rolling cabinet for my printer. It should be that way because I am moving my printer from one location to another around the room pretty often. Even around the house.

Since I have access to the materials, I was thinking on building it from aluminum or steel. Aluminum will look better IMO, matching the side panels of the X1C, I am looking for aesthetics too. I am also worried for the center of mass (The cabinet itself will measure like 1.25M tall, from the top surface to the ground) so I might be adding more pavers to the bottom part of it so it lowers the center of mass and hopefully make it harder to tilt over in an accident.

However, since I have read your very helpful post I have two main doubts with my particular idea:

  • How the vibration/decoupling issue for the whole cabinet would change if we add wheels? They will be made of some kind of elastomer, thats for sure. Once in place, the wheels are locked in place with its brake. They “almost” act like feet in that config, they feel sturdy.

  • Would it be a good idea to bolt the pack (Printer + paver) to the cabinet itself? The cabinet will be also used to store the filament, tools… Whatever. I mean, loose thingies inside it. I am sure that vibrations in the cabinet will sound like rattle snakes, so my guess is that I should not bold the paver to the cabinet.

Thanks in advance!

I do have to admit that I only find a chance to join the forum late at night when I am not at the top of my game and do slip a bit on following-up links to interesting threads.

Today, I had a closer look at the post and yes, it is apparent that the combination of vibration absorbers mainly spreads the energy across the spectrum rather than actually absorbing/transforming it. However, from a sound perspective, that is already very effective as to the human ear, it is the peak amplitude that is the problem.

Looking at the post and the printables link, it does appear that the combined system is not actually tuned to a particular frequency. Or anything specific for that matter. As PrinterMcgee points out, with a non-engineered passive system such as this, there is a risk of getting it wrong and ending with a system in an unstable region. Unfortunately, I did not properly get the hang of Nyquist diagrams all those years ago and can not really guess a risk. It seems to be working fine though :+1: .

Having a closer look at Highrise’s post, the pavers seem to primarily stabilize the table rather than adding their mass to the source. Essentially, the system is a classical single-degree of freedom system on a paver (although the spring is broken in two parts with different spring constants and there are 2 dampeners chained behind each other).

As you point out, there’s another interface (paver to table) that could be looked into. It’d need a very different stiffness/spring constant, but could be realized as a layer. While I would not think about foam initially (usually it is the spring part of a system that is considered first due to its bandwidth effect) it is actually a very good suggestion.
There is a risk to end up with a spring constant in region where it hits the system harmonics. That’d actually increase movement or even lead to negative damping (I had that with a washing machine on a “vibration absorbing” rubber mat once) but essentially, your suggestion completes the classical vibration absorber (neutralizer) model.

So yes, spot on :+1: :wink:

Just checked “Fundamentals of Noise and Vibration”, F. Fahy, J. Walker, p.105ff although that vibration neutralizer model is a bit simpler by omitting the damping.

PS1: Forgot to answer your initial question about the AMS on-top (again :frowning_face:): As long as the feet are not fully squashed but have some way to go, their spring constant is likely still in the linear range. So they should still be effective in the same frequency range.

PS2: Did you update to the latest Firmware? I have found that to make a hughe difference. I can still hear the printhead, but the Aux fan at 70% is significantly louder.

Hi dgarcu,

I do not think that the wheels will be the main and initial issue as usually it is a good idea to trace the path from the sound and vibration source.

So starting from the top, it does make sense to add a paver as close to the printer as possible. But as you point out, that leads to a likely safety hazard.
Personally, I’d priorize safety anytime and put the paver in the bottom for that reason alone.
If I would put a paver on top of the moveable cabine, I’d want to put two in the bottom. But that rather defeats the point of the cabinet as pulling 100kg around, even on wheels, is a bit of a nuisance rather than a quality of life improvement.

If the paver goes into the bottom, you’ll have a large framework or body through which the vibrations travel rather unimpeded. Both Steel and Al are rather stiff with a high speed of sound. So I’d expect not only a strong vibration transmission, but also a very effective excitation of the first harmonics of the individual members. And if you use panels, they do tend to get excited rather quickly in my experience.

Did you consider wood for the cabinet? That would provide more effective damping also due to its internal impedance mismatch. While discontinuous materials (chipwood, MDF) will provide slightly higher damping, I believe that for optical reasons you may want to look at classical boards and beams.
And of course you can go absolutely crazy on the looks :sweat_smile: Just put “River table” in the youtube search bar :joy:

Regarding the rattlesnake effect, I do not think that this can be avoided fully by anything other than lining the drawer with foam and the generous use of drawer seperators.

Going further down, we finally come to the wheels. With so much mass on top of them, I very much doubt that you will hit a harmonic. So you’ll probably select a relatively soft wheel that can carry the load of the cabinet individually (i.e. safety factor).

I do hope that this helps a bit,
Eno

Again, all I can say is wow. You clearly know your stuff and I am hubmled by the amount of time you dedicated to your thoughtful responses. Thank you.

Yes I did update to the latest firmware and it seems to help. The loudest part now is the chamber fan on the printer and I have to drop it from 100% to 90% which makes a huge difference for the noise but doesn’t appear to affect print quality. It’s still loud but I can deal with a fan’s constant “white noise” in my office.

As for the AMS on top, I’m attaching some pictures so I can get your thoughts. The first is the (v2?) anti-vibration foot by itself (they came in 2 packs of 4 for some reason) non-installed, and the second is it next to my printer sitting on the paver so you can see how squished it is (it still has some side-to-side wiggle which I think is the point) sitting on top of the paver which is sitting on top of the foam.


Many thanks for the compliment :slightly_smiling_face: I remember the concepts, but I would not have a chance to pass even the most elementary exam in the topic anymore. It’s just a reasonably rare specialization.

The same here. My printer is currently busy with a print profile with fans set at 100% Part, 70% Aux and 100% Chamber and the main noise is clearly exiting from the Chamber fan exhaust. Fortunately, it is only raising the chamber temp by 1° and when I bring it down to 70%, it is no longer the loudest fan. I did make a minor change to the air path though since I added a cut-up FFP2 mask underneath the coal filter. Not sure if that is effective in any way, but it was an easy mod without observable detrimental effects. And I feel better in case I ever get around to printing CF filaments.
If the chamber fan itself was placed further away from the exhaust, then the air/wave guide to the exit could be designed to contain a muffler tuned to the blade passing frequency/ies. But that would be something for an X2.
Of course, a muffler could also be added flush at the exhaust, but to be honest, lowering the chamber fan speed is much, much easier! And as long as heat creep is avoided, that is the definetively by far the most efficient and effective method. :+1:
Doing something about the part cooling fan would be much more challenging. In principle, having two or more air paths of different lengths could be used to cancel out the main frequencies, but that’d influence part cooling. And we want all the cooling we can get while keeping the print head light and small. I am not sure if oversizing the part fan in order to use it at lower power for the vast majority of prints would be an option for Bambu for an X2.

Many thanks for those. I do not have the feet but am intrigued.

While the squishing is clearly visible, I am surprised that this affects primarily the lower part while the upper part seems not to take part in the deformation. Without seeing the inside, I can only speculate that there’s either a solid member insides (at least solid in z) or, what I regard as much more likely, the wall thickness of the feet is actually changing. I draw that conclusion from Bambu’s picture with the feet underneath a P1P where the same behavior is seen but to a slightly lesser extent.
That would be rather clever as it would turn a single frequency spring-dampener into a bandwidth spring-dampener capable of being effective over a (slightly) changing range of frequencies depending on the load placed on it. With the uppermost part not actually squished, that would mean that they do their job in your set-up. :+1: :smiley:
I like your approach with the foam under the paver :smiley: Although the system is not tuned, I can imagine soft foam to be quite effective in this set-up :smiley: :+1:

The one thing I am a bit uncertain about however is about the best position in the system for the paver. Usually, vibration absorbers tend to be much lighter than the excited system (think earthquake stabilization pendulums in skyscrapers). From a conservation of momentum point of view, it may be even more effective to add the pavers mass to the printer directly.
It could be an interesting experiment to replace the anti-vibration feet under the printer with the original feet, and then secure 8-12 Bambu anti-vibration feet underneath the paver.
A big word of warning though:

:warning: This could be entirely and absolutely wrong! :warning:
:grimacing: My wife has a few stories about my “smart” reasoning :grimacing:
And of course, since that very nice addition of the active noise control in the motors, the biggest source of noise is now the chamber fan.

LOL…wifes have always something to say (or complain) , most of the time, when such “actions” suits them… (I could add quite a “few stories” myself, next to yours. :smile:.
Other than that (and to the point), like @HotFix above, I also add my thanks to you for the extent and comprehensiveness of the information you’re sharing with us. I’m learning quite a few new things myself on this forum, lessons (or, if you like, teachings) for which I’m really grateful, having started my 3D printing journey just a few months back (and enjoying every bit of it). :+1:

Interesting discussion!

Both Tom and Stefan have posted on this topic (links below). At least with Cartesian 3D printers, anti-vibration feet seemed to help reduce ringing and thus improve print quality. Perhaps the physics of CoreXY printers are different?

I bought the anti vibration feet for the X1C and can confirm what most already know, the feet don’t like to stay in the machine (they fall out easily but once in place they seem okay).

As for shaking, the printer shakes more now than with the normal feet but the table it is on shakes far less. So, as already stated, it’s more about not shaking the surface you put it on I would say.

I think the idea of concrete pavers (or whatever) on a thick rubber mat is probably the better solution.

Now, I did move my printer directly to the floor (second story of my house) and CAN SAY that the anti vibration feet DO help in transmitting less vibration (and noise) through the floor. So there is that bonus at least. It’s only a temporary move for me but a nice bonus while it’s on the ground.

Many thanks for these links @Tarrant1702 :smiley:

Fortunately, physics are the same this side of the event horizon :wink:

Stefan made a really nice explanation of the basic principles and supports that really nicely through his experiments. He nailed it when he wrote that the de-coupling provided by the vibration insulation reduces the stresses on the printer frame’s, thereby improving print performance. That would also apply to a Core XY, but with a somewhat higher internal stiffness.
Tom’s observations are (almost) also in line with Stefans.
My very simple modelling only considers the printer as a single rigid block, as I was focussing on the vibrations transmitted to the supporting surface. Same thing and principle, but they both also assessed the internal system response very nicely.

The reason Tom’s hanging printer did not work as intended is that he inadvertently did not build a vibration isolator. By hanging the printer from the top, rather than hanging a platform on which the printer stood, he actually built a double pendulum. That is also called a Chaos Pendulum. :flushed:
It may at first be surprising that his paver experiment did not achieve the same kind of results as Stefan’s. However, Stefan nicely worked out that thick pads are needed. Tom’s set-up with the paver and thin feet looked rather rigid, so only a small difference can be expected due to lack of moveability of the entire system against the surface.

Hi Hotfix,

When fleshing out my last answer, I realized that there would be more to be said in order to provide some more meaningful assistance. For that to be effective I needed to invest a little bit more thought. Fortunately, @Tarrant1702 also posted some very nice links which got me thinking and @matcoland and @drakko confirmed that there was some wider interest. Of course, the recent sharp increase on vibration insulator models (some more, some less effective) on MakerWorld showed me that some further insights may also be helpful to the wider community.

Three main items came to mind:

  • Although @julie777 very nicely explained the importance of mass, the reason why seems to be easily forgotten
  • The importance of spring stiffness does not seem to be so well understood
  • At a certain point, considerations narrow down on damping rather than thinking more freely about energy conversion
    => The general discussion seems to be stuck at Vibration Isolators: It is only a very small step to true Vibration Absorbers.

My very simple design is not a be-all and end-all. It is only of a very first, self-teaching step: Hopefully the needed push to go to true Vibration Absorbers from better designers than myself. 62
The pads can be printed in TPU purely for supervised experimentation and I provided a more detailed insight in the description. That should be able to take you all the way from double checking your Vibration Insulators, see why to place the paver where and to being able to play around with a very simple but true Vibration Absorption. Regarding vibrations: Feeling is believing.
It also gave me a chance to make a first experience with MakerWorld myself. Not being much of a designer, I have wanted to try it out for a while. Let’s see how that goes.

I do hope that you find it useful or at least interesting. Furthermore, it may actually help us in getting better vibration insulators and of course that we do get actual vibration absorber solutions from the community.

Merry Christmas,
Eno

PS: Please do not feel obliged to actually run through the experiment just because my post is adressed to you. You got me thinking and I needed to work that out this far for my own well being.

Wow, super impressive read here and on the link you gave. Bonus points for all of the white board drawings! I saved it and when I get some TPU I think I’ll print some to see how it goes. Will be interesting to see how well it works for you over time as well.

15 days later

Well. I don’t often use forums, but the sheer quality of the discussion here has made me rethink my stance! Thank you @EnoTheThracian for some superb technical insight and @julie777 for starting the topic in the first place.

I had been planning on putting my P1S on a paving slab - I’d modified my Ender 3 to within an inch of its life to be as quiet as possible, and I knew I wouldn’t be able to do as much with the P1S, so I fell back on my 1992 Physics qualification and started thinking about the mass.

What I’m wondering about is the foam that tends to go between it and a work surface though. What properties would be most beneficial (preferably that’s easy to get hold of, ideally from around the house)? My initial thought was some spare 12mm foam insulation board (although that might not provide enough grip to my desk) or an EVA foam floor mat from my garage, but is there something better that I might already have?

Hi irregularshed,

I agree that there are some really helpful and fascinating threads here :smiley:

As for you question on foam, when I delved a bit deeper I found that key are first mass, second spring stiffness (as they determine the natural frequency) and then damping while of giving sufficient movement capability to ensure that the energy is not just passed through.

For an ideal isolator, mass, stiffness and damping would need to be tuned which can either be done by measurement and calculation or by trial and error. My very simple tutorial part linked above supports in particular trial-and-error.
However, it is perfectly feasible to just use what you have and experiment a little until you are satisfied.

You could for example just use the 12mm foam and stack two sheets above each other to try to find a compromise between movement, spring stiffness and damping until you are satisfied. You could also cut foam into four smaller patches and use them as individual feet with your paver. That increases contact pressure and changes spring stiffness (non-linear in this case) and damping.

You could also use this to try to turn a vibration isolator into a true vibration absorber like seen in my tutorial with an additional board of wood. I have tried that with my parts and it does indeed absorb vibrations at the cost of increasing overall height. However, foam is not a good solution for that as it needs tuning of the spring stiffnesses.

Best wishes and
Eno

23 days later

Thank you for taking the time to explain these points. I’m on a anti-vibration mission myself though in my case it’s more for noise rather than print quality reasons.

I’m running a Bambu A1, I don’t have any issues with print quality, however I need to minimise as much noise transference as possible. I live in an apartment and my neighbour below me is VERY sensitive to noise, and a bit of a psycho.

I have my printer on a pedestal (a drawer unit that typically goes under an office desk), it’s fairly solid and doesn’t really flex at all but it does tend to transfer vibrations to the floor which I need to avoid as much as possible. I’m thinking of getting a 20mm thick steel slab instead of a paver (cleaner appearance = higher “wife approval factor”) and was planning to use some anti vibration feet with this, do you think it would work to stop the transference of sound to the floor?

Since getting my printer I’m desperate to do some longer all-night prints, but I can’t risk a complaint from my witch of a neighbour down below :joy:

That’ll probably do it. But I’d also consider a thin/dense sheet of foam between the steel plate and whatever the plate sits on.

Heavier will be better. You want to be really sure, spec a steel plate in a thickness that results in a part you can barely lift.

2 months later

@julie777 - great article, I have a follow-up question … BTW, thanks to you my X1C is sitting on two pavers on the garage floor and works great.
Q: It’s pretty clear that “putting a paver” on the top of the machine would considerably reduce remaining vibration when the head is moving fast - problem is that the top is made of glass except at the edges, which aren’t perfectly flush. I’m guessing the top is tempered glass and very flat, as is the paver, but I’m not confident in the C_static between the two surfaces …
Do you have any thoughts on an expedient solution? LoL, I’m obligated to take full responsibility if anything goes horribly wrong because I have a BSME that I never used much until I got the printer :sweat_smile: (did EE/CS in grad school).

My old printer was a rattling box…
But without any engineering degrees or such to rely on I reverted to using logic and common sense to address the issue.

The machine came with the standard round pads, not too hard, not too soft.
Just good enough to prevent slipping.
When I was younger I had a passion for music and good DIY speakers.
Living in a multi storey building meant those base speakers transmitted the sound not just into my living space.
The solution to the problem was the same I applied to my printer…

Mechanical movement, vibrations, are transferred through the mating surfaces.
The more surface area the easier the transmission, the better the flatness the louder the the noise will be.
Thing with physics from the viewpoint of someone blissfully unaware of the stuff is that you can do things those who know would just ignore…
I learned from other audio enthusiast of the old days that the feet of the audio equipment are as vital as the equipment itself.
Like why does this vintage vinyl play use such flimsy and long screws for the feet ?
Or why does this old tube radio need those long legs and these half moon shaped metal caps at the end ?

The answer might surprise you: PRESSURE.
Some countries prefer BAR but basically all tyres come with a number in PSI - Pressure Per Square Inch !
Goes like this:
If you try blow up one of those rubber bottles to keep you bed warm you have a high chance it backfires and pops you lungs.
But if you try to blow up a weather balloon you feel next to no resistance.
The huge surface area means it takes a lot to build up and meaningful pressure and since the weather balloon also expands freely you have a hard time building up pressure.
Like it or not: The little pressure those tablets for vitamin drinks and such provide would be enough to blow the walls out of a room if the room is fully sealed…

How does this translated now from speakers and audio equipment to our printers ?
Try this for a change:
Print a cone with a sharp point as the feet and also a matching plate for the resting surface, e.g. table, with concave top - like an hourglass.
Now do some basic math - only if you want!
How heavy if your printer you said?
What is the combined surface area of the tips of these feet you said ?
No problem for the first but the second would be a very tiny number.
Translated that to PSI and you are in for a shock LOL
It can be a few hundred PSI working on those tiny points…
Now: WHY would this matter ?

SOUNDWAVES really struggle to make it trough very thin things like those points.
A bit like a filter if you like as the wavelength is usually longer than the diameter of the mating surface.
And with this intense weight transferred through those tips these feet are more like bolted connections with a bolt so thin that it can’t exist.
Why did I highlight the sound part you wonder …
Well…

Our printers not only created vibrations but also a lot of movement through the abuse of these laws of physics…
You know… For every action there has to be an equal and opposite reaction…
If you use firearms you know all about it - recoil…
The moving head makes the entire box RE-ACT in kind.
It is only how unflexible the box is and how heavy it is that compensates for this unwanted jerking around.
Using those pointy feet will eliminate a lot of the noise transferred and also helps a lot to keep the bottom stable and in place.
But it WON’T prevent the flexing and moving of the entire machine’s framework.
On the other hand those pointy feet REDUCE the TRANSFER of these motion but quite a bit.
Meaning that only the movements with the lowest frequency and highest amplitude will e transferred.
IF you have a very HEAVY and UNFLEXIBLE base than those movements can’t really be transferred :wink:
For other things I do this by adding a heavy top, like from a discarded marble bench top of board.
You will find that, for example, on a concrete floor using pointy feet the machine housing does not really move and flex much at all.
Well, that is if you ignore that the housing itself is not THAT solid…

A neat way to cheat is to use a good sized table in a corner of the room and to use angle brackets or such to fix it to the wall.
With the table unable to move in the XY direction you only have to worry about those feet :wink:

27 days later

I got an email from Voxel PLA about their new anti-vibration feet.

" VOXEL x HULA is the world’s first seismic isolator-inspired anti-vibration damper for the Bambu Lab P1P / P1S / X1 / X1C printer designed by Thrutheframe 3. HULA’s innovative damping method decouples the printer from the desk, minimizing table shakes, improving print quality, and reducing stress on the printer. Unlike the Bambu Lab Anti-Vibration damper, HULA is self-aligning and doesn’t sway/rock when printing, ensuring superior print quality and stability."

thank you for the insight on the argument, i’ve been struggling with the issue of vibration too

I don’t see too much of a difference.
I would like to see the prints with a side by side comparison.

Watch closely the video and you’ll definitely see the difference between the two… although, I wouldn’t say no to having access to their stp files.

I would like to see the end result differences.

Shaking more/less doesn’t matter to me unless one produces cleaner prints.

Yeah, but at only 13 dollars for all for all 4 feet, and not having to order the rest of the parts, I’ll take convenience and order the prebuilt ones.