■ Meeting regarding the conclusion of the “Ash and Pikachu era” in the Pokémon anime, with TPC’s (The Pokémon Company’s) thoughts.
May 2, 2022 (Monday), 16:30 @ GF Hanada City
Attendees:
TPC: Mr. Miyahara (referred to as “Mi” below)
Mr. Katagami (referred to as “Ka” below)
GF: Mr. Omori (referred to as “O” below)
Mr. Sugimori (referred to as “Su” below)
Mr. Matsushima (referred to as “Ma” below)
Information Management: Mr. Nakai, Mr. Morita
Mi:
This time, I believe some of my comments may not have been well-received, and there was a misunderstanding that TPC’s approach to producing the anime might not be the best. I recognize that the way I communicated may have caused this, and I apologize for that.
It’s not that we, at TPC, haven’t thought about these things. We have thoroughly considered how we should approach this, but I realize that we haven’t communicated it well enough. That is my responsibility, and I apologize for it.
With this meeting, I would like to take the time to explain TPC’s current thoughts on a few points, such as:
• Why we decided to end Ash’s journey.
• What discussions we had with Mr. Yuyama and the team when creating the final episode of Columbus.
• How we plan to communicate with the audience as we transition to the next series (Verne).
O:
Before we proceed, I want to clarify that GF is not in a position to make any definitive decisions today. We are here to listen to your thoughts, and we are not in a place to make any conclusions at this time. We are merely here to discuss whether your plan is good for the Pokémon brand and the fans.
Mi:
Understood. First, may I explain the challenges facing the anime while referring to some materials?
==== (Explanation of the materials below) ====
The anime’s viewership has been steadily declining. While we have strengthened our outreach through various video distribution services, including missed episode streaming on YouTube with the support of TV Tokyo and ShoPro, we cannot ignore the issue of viewership ratings as long as TV broadcasting remains the foundation of the series, particularly concerning sponsors.
One challenge is that Ash’s character can no longer be “reset” (i.e., starting at level 1 each time), making it difficult for children to emotionally connect with the story as if it were their own experience. The desire has always been to have the audience connect emotionally with the protagonist’s growth, but recently, other characters are starting to take on that role instead of Ash.
On the other hand, long-time fans have always wondered, “When will Ash become a Pokémon Master?”—a question that has lingered for years. The difficulty of showing significant growth in Ash, having been the same protagonist for so long, has become apparent. We attempted to address this by creating series like Pokémon Sun & Moon, which lacked a long-term story arc, but it also made it harder to develop individual episodes.
Additionally, there are concerns related to the cast. Specifically, there have been risks surrounding Rica Matsumoto (Ash’s voice actor). There are other environmental challenges as well.
Amid these circumstances, we explored what to do next to capture a new generation of children. While there are various media forms, the significance of terrestrial TV broadcasting still remains. However, for first-time viewers (children), it is not necessary for the protagonist to be Ash. By creating a new protagonist, we believe we can again make an anime that allows children to see themselves in the character’s growth story.
ShoPro also proposed that we create a work with a protagonist who can grow both mentally and physically over a three-year span.
Mr. Ishihara also agreed, saying that GF constantly takes on new challenges in game development, and we should also challenge ourselves in video production. As a result, TPC decided to start working on a new series with ShoPro.
There was also a discussion with Mr. Yuyama. Having entrusted Ash and Pikachu to him for 25 years, we exchanged opinions. I admit that there were issues with how we communicated and confirmed things regarding the later episodes.
While Ash’s battle with Leon serves as the culmination of his journey, we want the final episode to be a more compact and intimate story that ties into the theme of family, as seen in Columbus. By having Ash and others reflect on their early experiences with Pokémon, we aim to once again convey the charm of Pokémon. We believe there is nothing left unfinished with Ash and Pikachu’s story.
The question of what it means to be a Pokémon Master, and the ultimate goal of Pokémon, was also discussed during the time of M20. From Mr. Yuyama’s perspective, Ash is less about achieving something and more about being an eternal adventurer. Thus, the concept of “Pokémon Master” is intentionally abstract, with a sense of “It would be great if you could become one.”
Regarding the “plus one” episode idea:
“Ash’s Summer Vacation—The Endless Day”
The episode depicts Ash, who continues his journey to become a Pokémon Master, as he heads to Tonari Town to meet his father after a long time. Along the way, he encounters wild Pokémon and battles with fellow trainers, reflecting the excitement and joy of the Pokémon world. Team Rocket will also appear. The episode will end with a callback to Ash’s original cap, evoking a sense of looped continuity.
TPC believes this will be a work that longtime fans will understand and appreciate the intent behind, and we would like to make this the final episode of the TV series.
In terms of how we communicate Ash and Pikachu’s conclusion to the audience, we think the following points are essential:
1. Avoid using terms like “graduation” or “ending.” Instead, convey that Ash and Pikachu’s journey continues and that they may return someday.
2. Announce it about five months in advance to give viewers time to process the news.
3. Ensure that the new creative direction is clearly presented, allowing for a smooth transition.
Originally, we felt that Ash’s victory at the WCS provided a satisfying conclusion to his battles, so we were planning to structure the communication around that. However, due to delays with the new creative direction for Verne, we have no choice but to push the schedule back.
As a result, we believe it’s necessary to give viewers a sufficient period to come to terms with Ash and Pikachu’s conclusion.
Currently, we are considering airing the final episodes focused on Ash, Pikachu, and Team Rocket from December 2022 to March 2023, with the new series (Verne) set to start in April 2023. We want to create a grand farewell episode that fans of all generations will enjoy. The production schedule is secured, and casting is now in progress.
We aim to portray Ash as someone who will continue living his eternal summer vacation, while using the new series to focus on characters who will undergo meaningful growth.
Regarding Ash as the series’ protagonist, while it may be difficult to continue with him in the long term, there is potential for him to appear in special episodes. We want to communicate that this doesn’t mean Ash is gone forever.
==== End of materials explanation ====
O:
While ShoPro is leading the production of the anime, I believe the overall production decisions, including the anime, fall under TPC’s responsibility. It is TPC’s responsibility to make and coordinate those decisions. So, who exactly made the decision to end Ash’s journey?
Mi:
For about 10 years now, Ishihara has been repeatedly questioning whether we should still continue with Ash. However, the final decision as the executive in charge was made by me.
Su:
To my knowledge, Ishihara has been saying that for about 20 years.
Mi:
Ishihara has always pushed for new challenges. At one point, there was even a suggestion to keep Ash and Pikachu but change the voice actors. There were also internal discussions about parting ways with Rica Matsumoto and Ikue Ohtani due to strained relations.
Su:
That’s just production-side drama. Viewers have nothing to do with that.
O:
I heard some of the internal issues, but honestly, that’s irrelevant to us. I understand that declining ratings are a problem, but is that really because of Ash? I don’t know, but was the decision to overhaul the protagonist made solely because of that?
Mi:
There was a strong opinion that the protagonist should be changed.
Su:
I understand the decision to end it if the ratings are declining. Ending it isn’t necessarily a bad thing. You can’t keep going if it’s running at a loss. However, if you don’t wrap things up carefully, there will be a backlash.
It’s clear that the decision was made for the convenience of the creators, and while I understand Yuyama’s thinking, if that approach is pushed through, it will cause issues. The Pokémon anime isn’t just Yuyama’s to control, and his vision may not align with the viewers’ expectations. It’s dangerous to proceed based solely on his ideas.
Mi:
I realize now that we lacked consideration for the viewers’ perspective.
O:
Pokémon as a brand has evolved over more than 20 years, impacting various aspects beyond just the anime. If Titan doesn’t sell well, it could cause significant repercussions, including within Nintendo and elsewhere. I see the potential for unforeseen controversies, and it seems to me that part of TPC’s job as producers is to ensure that such controversies don’t arise. This isn’t just about the anime; it could have repercussions for the entire Pokémon brand. We don’t want the excitement and expectations for the games to be ruined because of issues on the production side of the anime.
Su:
If things keep going as they are, we could see petitions calling for Ash to stay. In the worst-case scenario, we might even see incidents of arson. These things could escalate.
Mi:
It may be something that we should be more concerned about overseas than in Japan. We’ve been in talks with TPCi (The Pokémon Company International), so we want to take our time with the PR campaign.
Su:
When I reviewed the draft of the final episode, I felt a strong sense of urgency and that’s why I voiced my concerns.
Mi:
I’ve been discussing with Mr. Yuyama the possibility of adding more episodes to Columbus.
Su:
It’s not just about adding episodes to Columbus—that’s fine on its own. But for the overall ending of Ash and Pikachu, a grand finale that involves Goh or Koharu wouldn’t work. It needs to be a pure story that focuses on the original core members of the series. It shouldn’t matter if someone has only watched the last three years; the ending should resonate deeply with long-time fans who have been there from the beginning.
Mi:
We are currently considering adding at least 10 more episodes, and we want to address the issues that Mr. Sugimori has raised in that process.
O:
The question of when Ash will become a Pokémon Master is already being discussed among users. If we announce that Ash’s journey is ending, viewers will naturally expect that the show will conclude with Ash achieving that goal. But if the story ends without answering that question, it will come off as extremely inconsiderate to the audience.
Su:
Even if Mr. Yuyama tries to explain in interviews that “Pokémon Master” is just an abstract concept, that explanation won’t reach the viewers. It’s a storytelling technique that may have worked to sustain the anime for years, but it won’t satisfy the audience’s expectations now. Since becoming a Pokémon Master has been framed as a clear objective within the story, you need to provide some kind of resolution to it. Ash doesn’t necessarily have to become a Pokémon Master, but the story must communicate something about that goal.
O:
If the show ends without a proper conclusion, it would be like Detective Conan ending without revealing who the culprit is, or One Piece ending without revealing what the treasure actually is. It would leave the viewers feeling unsatisfied.
Su:
You need to wrap things up by showing that Ash has at least understood what it means to be a Pokémon Master, and then have him continue his journey with that realization. For instance, Ash could reflect on his journey and say, “Being a Pokémon Master isn’t just about winning battles, but about my connection with Pokémon.” That kind of self-realization could work.
Mi:
We will work on crafting those additional episodes, considering the viewer’s perspective and thinking about what will bring them joy and closure.
O:
Regarding the announcement of Ash and Pikachu’s departure, you mentioned informing viewers five months in advance. Can you clarify that?
Mi:
The new series has been delayed, so we’re aiming to start PR around November. We plan to communicate it as a “passing of the torch” to the new protagonist, without saying that it’s the “end” of Ash and Pikachu. We’ll need to do more than just a press release; the message should be conveyed through the series itself.
Su:
Will Ash be the one to deliver the message? How will it be conveyed? Ash’s journey isn’t ending, so the communication needs to be handled delicately.
O:
This could potentially cause a significant backlash, and timing will be crucial. November is also when Titan launches, and we would prefer to avoid overlap between the game’s release and any negative reactions surrounding Ash’s departure.
Mi:
We’re still adjusting the overall schedule. Currently, we’re aiming for Ash’s battle with Leon to conclude around November 11th, with Columbus wrapping up by December.
O:
Ideally, the anime would build excitement leading into the release of the game. However, if Ash’s departure is mishandled, there could be a sentiment that “Pokémon is over,” which we would want to avoid during such a crucial time.
Mi:
We are also considering airing new episodes featuring Ash and Pikachu leading up to the start of Verne in April. However, it is clear that long-term character development for Ash will be difficult, so we want to focus on growth stories for new characters in the upcoming series. As much as TPC recognizes Ash as an important part of the brand, we also want to communicate that Pokémon is more than just Ash.
Su:
I agree, but I think the handling of the transition could be more delicate.
Mi:
I acknowledge that we have been lacking that delicate approach, and we’ll reflect on it.
Su:
There’s no precedent for this, so no one knows the right answer. But I think ending the series without Ash achieving his goal is incredibly difficult.
O:
I understand that viewers might have thought Ash becoming Champion would make him a Pokémon Master, but when he won the Alola League, the journey continued. If we don’t provide an answer to what it means to be a Pokémon Master, it could be frustrating for viewers.
Mi:
It’s true that viewers reacted similarly when Ash became Champion.
Su:
It would be helpful to clarify that being a Pokémon Master isn’t just about being the strongest in battles.
O:
When Ash became the Alola Champion, he said he hadn’t yet become a Pokémon Master, so viewers were left wondering what comes next. I thought becoming Champion would be one of the final answers.
Mi:
At the time, we felt the only next step was World Champion, which is how the Columbus storyline unfolded.
O:
But even if Ash becomes the World Champion, that still may not be what makes him a Pokémon Master.
Su:
Simply put, being a Pokémon Master might mean being the person who has the best connection with Pokémon. It’s more about bonding with them, which allows Ash to battle and capture Pokémon effectively. That might be what it means. I’m not Mr. Yuyama, but that’s how I see it. It’s a spiritual concept, and expressing it is going to be challenging.
Ma:
So maybe Ash starts to think about what it means to be a Pokémon Master during his journey?
Su:
There have been several instances where Ash has been deeply connected to Pokémon, such as when they saved him from near death. It’s clear he has had moments that suggest he could become a Pokémon Master. While Mr. Yuyama said he’s left nothing unfinished, I think it would be valuable to revisit those themes and offer a more conclusive depiction of what it means to be a Pokémon Master.
Mi:
Ash has occasionally reflected on what being a Pokémon Master means, but I agree we need to present that in a more explicit and impactful way to the audience. I’ll speak with Mr. Yuyama about this.
Su:
Maybe someone could say to Ash, “You’ve become a Pokémon Master,” after his victory, prompting him to reflect on what that actually means. He could then realize that it’s not about being the strongest, but about something more personal, like his bond with Pokémon.
Mi:
That’s definitely something we’re considering. For Team Rocket, we plan to include more nostalgic elements in the additional episodes. We’ll also look into referencing some of their most memorable moments from the past to bring everything full circle.
Su & O:
That would definitely resonate with fans, especially those who have been watching from the beginning. It’s important to ensure that long-time viewers feel rewarded for their loyalty.
Su:
If Ash can express that becoming the World Champion isn’t the end, but just one part of his journey towards understanding what it means to be a Pokémon Master, it would feel more in line with his character. The key is ensuring that this concept is communicated clearly.
Mi:
We’ll be working on this as we move forward, and I’ll consult with the production team to make sure it’s executed properly.
O:
One thing I’d like to mention, while it’s not necessarily content-related, is that there are many stakeholders involved in the Pokémon brand. I hope you’ll take the time to inform everyone, especially partners like Nintendo, about the decision to conclude Ash’s story.
Mi:
Nintendo hasn’t historically been involved in the anime’s creative decisions, but I agree that we should keep them informed, particularly given the importance of this moment.
O:
And what about the new series?
Mi:
We’re aiming to finalize the first episode by August. We want to incorporate feedback and make it as strong as possible. We plan to introduce elements from Titan and Sudachi to appeal to multiple generations. We’ll also aim to feature a broad range of Pokémon from different generations and have the characters travel to various regions, which was something we couldn’t fully explore in Columbus. ShoPro is committed to investing in high-quality production, and we want to make sure the new series challenges the creators to push their limits. Many of these creators have been influenced by the work GF has done over the years, so we want to channel that creative energy.
For instance, we’d like to introduce a strong female protagonist, possibly with dual leads—one male and one female. We’re still working through some details, but we want to push for a fresh dynamic that we couldn’t fully explore with Ash.
We’ll continue discussing the direction we’re taking, and we’ll bring you updates once we have more to share.
O:
The biggest issue right now is how to communicate to viewers that Ash will no longer be the protagonist. How will you handle that messaging?
Mi:
It’s certainly a delicate matter. We need to ensure that the transition doesn’t feel abrupt or disrespectful to fans.
O:
It could lead to major backlash if mishandled. When Orion had the BringBack controversy, it escalated quickly, and I even received death threats over it. Please be mindful that a poorly handled transition could have serious consequences. You need to prepare for potential backlash.
Su:
No matter how well the new series is received, there will always be a portion of the fanbase that won’t accept it.
Mi:
We’ve already seen incidents like that. When Serena reappeared, Mr. Yajima received death threats from international fans on Twitter. There are always a few overly attached individuals.
Su:
Which is why including romantic elements in Pokémon is tricky. You have to be careful. But how will you announce Ash’s departure without saying “end” or “graduation”?
Ka:
We’re still considering how to handle the new episodes and the ending. It’s an ongoing discussion, but it’s clear that any communication regarding the end of Ash’s journey must be coordinated across all fronts. We also want to avoid leaving it to overseas PR teams to simply time announcements based on business decisions. It’s important that we have a unified approach to communicating with the fans globally. We still haven’t finalized the exact wording, but we’ll consult with you before making any final decisions.
Su:
I think creators can sometimes be insensitive to fans’ feelings, so we should approach this carefully.
Ka:
Yes, I agree. For example, Ash’s victory in the Alola League was celebrated overseas, with an official date being recognized for it. However, that celebration ended up feeling bittersweet for fans because it was interpreted as “the day Ash’s journey might end.” The way we phrase things has a profound impact on how fans perceive these milestones. We need to carefully consider how we convey these messages to ensure they resonate positively. I also realize now that we’ve been too deferential to Mr. Yuyama’s vision at times, and that may have caused some disconnect with the fans. We’ve been too focused on respecting the creator’s intentions without fully considering the fans’ perspective.
For example, when Ash won the Alola League, Mr. Yuyama was initially against the idea of having Ash become a champion. The internal dynamics at the production level were such that many people hesitated to push back on his ideas. However, we are now more aware of the need to balance the creators’ vision with what the fans want, and we will take that into account moving forward.
Su:
This situation reminds me of how George Lucas handled Star Wars—he often frustrated fans by making decisions that didn’t align with their expectations, despite having creative control. It’s a similar case here. Pokémon has evolved beyond just the original creators’ vision; it belongs to the fans now too.
Ka:
Yes, I think we’ve learned from this experience. In the future, we need to maintain a better balance between respecting the creators and ensuring that the fans feel heard and valued. We’re grateful for the opportunity to add these extra episodes, and we’ll use this time to re-evaluate our approach.
Su:
We also faced backlash when we decided to reduce the number of Pokémon appearing in the anime. These are sensitive times, and even small decisions can cause a disproportionate reaction from the fanbase. When creators make decisions without properly communicating with the audience, things can easily spiral out of control. While Mr. Ishihara may be pushing for change, it’s important to recognize that long-standing traditions, like Ash’s journey, can’t be easily altered without consequences.
Ka:
You’re absolutely right. We’ve been so focused on respecting the creators’ vision that we lost sight of the fact that Pokémon is a brand that belongs to the fans as much as it does to the creators. Now that we have this chance to add episodes and adjust the messaging, we’ll make sure to take a more fan-centric approach. The communication we establish with the audience, both in Japan and internationally, will be crucial moving forward.
Su:
Ending Ash’s journey in a rushed or poorly thought-out way would be the easiest route to take. But you’ve made the decision to bring his story to a close, and that’s no small feat. It’s a monumental task, and I hope TPC will give it the care it deserves.
O:
If the brand as a whole can move forward successfully from this, then it could be a positive step. However, that outcome depends heavily on how the fans perceive this transition.
Ka:
We’ve seen how family-oriented stories with deep emotional arcs, like Demon Slayer, have resonated with broader audiences. While we’re not specifically aiming to replicate that, we do want to challenge ourselves creatively. The Pokémon brand needs to keep evolving, and we recognize that.
Su:
No franchise can last forever, and the longer it runs, the more complicated things become. Voice actors retire or pass away, and the structure inevitably changes.
Mi:
We’re aware of the risks associated with this transition. For instance, if we don’t handle Rica Matsumoto’s involvement carefully, it could lead to unforeseen complications. This is why we’re taking steps now to ensure that everything goes as smoothly as possible, including addressing any potential conflicts within the production.
O:
In conclusion, I think it’s important that we don’t get too deeply involved in every little detail. At some point, we need to let TPC take responsibility for these decisions and step back.
Ma:
If there are any major issues with the settings or continuity, I’ll make sure to report them to Mr. Omori.
O:
The responsibility now lies with TPC to make the final decisions. As we’ve said today, we’ll continue to monitor the situation but will leave the big calls in your hands moving forward. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss this today.
Ka:
Thank you for your understanding. We really appreciate the input from everyone here today. I think we’ve gained a lot of perspective on how we should proceed, especially with regard to the fans’ feelings. We’ll take your feedback seriously as we continue with this process.
Su:
It’s essential to remain mindful of how the fans will react. Ash and Pikachu have been the face of the anime for 25 years. You can’t underestimate the emotional attachment that generations of fans have to them. Handling this transition delicately is paramount.
O:
At the end of the day, it’s about making sure the Pokémon brand stays strong and respected. Changing the main protagonist is a big decision, but it can be done successfully if managed correctly. The focus should be on honoring the legacy while creating excitement for what’s next.
Mi:
Absolutely. We’ll make sure to keep that in mind as we finalize the transition. We’ll be reflecting on how to communicate this transition both within Japan and globally. We recognize the challenges and are committed to making this as smooth as possible.
Ka:
We’ll continue refining our approach to the PR campaign. As mentioned earlier, the messaging will be less about “the end” and more about “a new beginning.” We’ll emphasize that Ash’s journey isn’t over—he’s just stepping aside for new characters to take the spotlight for a while.
Su:
That’s a good angle. By framing it as a new adventure and leaving the door open for Ash and Pikachu to return, you can alleviate some of the anxiety fans might feel.
O:
Just make sure the timing is right. Don’t let the announcement coincide with major releases like Titan. It’s better to avoid any unnecessary overlap that could trigger negative reactions.
Mi:
We’ll adjust the timing carefully. There’s a lot to balance, but we’re determined to ensure that both the end of Ash’s era and the launch of the new series are well-received. We’ll keep the PR efforts coordinated and thoughtful.
Ka:
Thank you for trusting us with this, and we’ll keep you updated as things develop. We’re still fine-tuning some aspects of the new series (Verne) and making sure it’s strong enough to capture the attention of both new and old fans alike.
O:
Good luck with the production. We’re hopeful that it will work out well for everyone involved.
Su:
Yes, we’re rooting for you. It’s a big shift, but if done right, it could open new doors for Pokémon.
Mi:
Thanks, we’ll take everything discussed today into account as we move forward. Your feedback has been invaluable, and we look forward to seeing this through successfully.
O:
We appreciate the transparency today. Best of luck to TPC and the entire team moving forward.
Ka:
Thank you, everyone. We’ll continue to communicate and ensure that both the creative and fan expectations are met. Let’s keep building on the legacy of Pokémon and make sure this transition feels as seamless as possible.
The meeting concluded, with all parties agreeing that careful planning and communication would be essential to transitioning the Pokémon anime from Ash and Pikachu to the new series while preserving the integrity of the brand. TPC committed to handling the PR strategy thoughtfully, ensuring that the fans are given time to process the changes and that the announcement aligns with broader Pokémon brand initiatives.