Author interview

The first new album in 18 years!

Tsugutoshi Goto, who was once a member of the legendary band Sadistics (1976), has written, arranged and produced for many artists from the 1980s to the present, including Kenji Sawada's "TOKIO" (1979), who won the Record Grand Prix for Best Arrangement, Shibugakitai, Isseikifumi Sepia, Onyanko Club, Shizuka Kudo, Tunnels, and Koji Kikkawa. Goto recently released his first solo album in 18 years, "do not disturb," on which he plays the bass himself.
First, we asked you about what prompted you to release a new album after 18 years.

"To be honest, I want to get back to playing the bass, which has been my biggest weapon until now. Fortunately, over the past few years, I've had a lot of old friends who call me a bass player, and it's been fun. For example, Takanaka Masayoshi and Saito Nobu... On this album, I played about 80% of the bass myself, and the remaining 20% ​​was a synth bass. I like the "selfishness" of being able to play instrumental music on the bass, rather than singing. (laughs) I guess it's like a commitment as a player. And another thing, after working in the margins of the music industry for so long, I wondered if I had a masterpiece that I could call my own. I never did this to make a masterpiece, but... I feel like I should go and look for one. So the title "do not disturb" has a kind of nuance of, "I'll do what I like, so leave me alone."

So, what is the appeal of the bass that has allowed you to use it for such a long time?

"Instrumentally speaking, there is both melody and rhythm, so I attach it to both the drums and the guitar -- that's what makes it interesting. Also, maybe it's just that I (personally) like 'low sounds' (laughs). That's why even now I only have a four-string bass. Five-string basses that produce higher sounds just don't suit me physiologically; they feel weird to me (laughs). Also, when I pick up a bass, for some reason I feel more confident. Like, 'Let's do this!' If I were to compare it to a car race, it's like the moment you put on your helmet."

A childhood spent watching TV

Goto was born and raised in Gotanda (Shinagawa Ward, Tokyo) during his childhood, which coincided with the early days of television, when the focus of attention among children was television, sumo, and professional baseball, to the point that the catchphrase "Giants, Taiho, and Tamagoyaki" was born.

And for the young Goto, the first time he aspired to a career in music was when he saw a TV program at the time and thought, "That's so cool!"

"I watched a TV show called 'Amateur Electric Guitar Battle' and thought it was so cool, and I naively wanted to try playing an instrument myself. At that time in music classes (in elementary school), the only instrument we had was a foot organ in the classroom, and we had singing tests and history about what songs Bach and Handel composed in what years, but I wasn't interested at all and had no desire to learn them (lol). My grades weren't very good either...Other than that, I was crazy about playing amateur baseball in vacant lots, and when I was in the first year of junior high school, I went to Harajuku Station to see foreigners at the Tokyo Olympics, and I thought, 'So cool!' (lol)...At that time, just seeing foreigners in person was impressive and cool."

Until then, Goto had little connection to the music world, let alone musical instruments. How did you first encounter the guitar?

"When I was in the second year of junior high school, one of my sisters would buy me records by the Beatles and the like and I'd listen to them together... She took me to her first concert when The Astronauts came to Japan. I think it was at Shibuya Public Hall, and the support band was Takeshi Terauchi and the Blue Jeans. At the time, it sounded really loud to my ears... I thought, wow, the volume is amazing! Then I suddenly wanted to start playing an instrument. I begged my parents to buy me an electric guitar at a music store in Musashi-Koyama (shopping street). Then I started going to an instrument class in the same shopping street. I learned Ventures songs one-on-one, step by step... It was a huge guitar boom, so all my friends were into guitars. But we weren't good enough to form a band. At the time, I didn't know anything about professional music education. It was a time when boys like that started playing electric guitars because of the influence of TV."

In high school, I joined the light music club.

This is where your talent as a player is honed.

He went on to the prestigious private high school affiliated with Aoyama Gakuin University, where he joined the light music club. And what he learned through club activities and the friendships he made there became a big step towards his future as a musician.

"At the time, the club was led by a music teacher who was a really cool guy... and we always practiced jazz music. When I joined the club, I learned about jazz music theory for the first time, and I became aware of things like stacking chords as a piece of knowledge. I also went to another guitar school around that time to learn theory... and I moved in the direction of music that required a bit more brainpower. For example, I even did jam sessions with the piano, something I hadn't experienced in middle school. It was very meaningful to meet people who had been playing music since they were young, and people with completely different backgrounds who were aspiring to be musicians."

I understand that you were also club buddies with Hayashi Tatsuo, who later became the drummer for Tin Pan Alley.

"I was in the same class as him (Hayashi Tatsuo), and we played outside of clubs. His influence was huge...Looking back, I was really blessed with great friends. (laughs) He was the one who gave me the opportunity to go professional, and he had a particularly wide circle of friends. It was through him that I was introduced to the Bread & Butter group."

At the age of 19, he made his professional debut as a bass player!

Through his high school classmate Tatsuo Hayashi, he joined the backing band for Bread & Butter in 1971. At the time, he was only 19 years old, but made his professional debut as a bass player.
By the way, I heard that this band was what inspired you to start playing bass. Can you tell us some stories about that time?

"Originally, I was backing for "Bread & Butter" with Hayashi (Tatsuo) and others, but after that, when "The Tigers" broke up, Kishibe Shiro joined up with "Bread & Butter" and we decided to do a national tour.
But we didn't have a bass player, so I was suddenly called to a studio in Yotsuya... I borrowed a Fender jazz bass from my brother (Sally at the time, now actor Kishibe Ittoku) and practiced. Then, the next day or the day after, I was already on tour. Of course, I kept borrowing Ittoku's bass (laughs)... That was my first opportunity to play the bass guitar, and I've played bass on subsequent albums too."

So when did you get your own bass guitar?

"When I was 20, I formed a backing band for Kosaka Tadashi, and at that time I finally bought my own bass guitar. The members included Hayashi (drums) and Matsutoya Masataka (piano), and we rented a house in Americamura (a US military campsite) in Sayama (Saitama Prefecture) at the time. It was close to the Irumagawa River, and we stayed there for about 12,000 yen a month. Kosaka and Hosono (Haruomi) were living in a separate building... I also knew Takahashi (Yukihiro), who would later form the band "Sadistics," from around this time. Anyway, it was a fun time, with a mix of schoolmates and professional friends (laughs)."

Another topic related to you from that time is the song "Chopper's Boogie" from the album released by Tin Pan Alley (a musical group that included Haruomi Hosono, Tatsuo Hayashi, and Shigeru Suzuki). The "chopper technique" at that time became quite a hot topic, didn't it?

"As for that style of playing (chopper technique, where the strings are plucked directly with the fingers, without using a pick), I simply tried it a little earlier than other people. At first, I didn't know how to do it either...I listened to overseas players' playing with just my ears and memorized the sounds. No matter how many times I listened to it, I couldn't believe they were playing with just two fingers (laughs). I tried to imagine it, and that's how it turned out. I heard it's called 'slap' now..."

The "light and shadow" of a glamorous bassist and studio musician

Looking back at Goto's activities in the '70s, he was a leading bass player in bands such as Sadistic Mika Band and Tin Pan Alley, but he also had the difficult experience of being a studio musician, jumping into the industry without even being able to read music... Next, he talks about those memories of light and darkness.
By the way, what is your most vivid memory since becoming a musician?

"I guess it was when we toured the UK with the (Sadistic) Mika Band for their London show. We were the opening act for the locally popular Roxy Music, but the venue was quite large... It was a great experience to build up my courage. To perform in a strange country, in front of strangers, without being overwhelmed... It really gave me courage as a musician. After that, when I came back, Kato Kazuhiko left, and the Mika Band disbanded, but the remaining members (with Takanaka Masayoshi and Takahashi Yukihiro) wanted to create a different session, so we formed "Sadistics."

On the other hand, it seems you had a lot of tough experiences when you were a studio musician?

"At first, I couldn't read the music, so I was turned away from the studio. But I wasn't the kind of person to back down. (Laughs) The reason is that... the music sheets I was given were full of boring stuff that didn't matter. If they'd just given me the chord names, I'd be able to do something better.
But it was frustrating to be sent home because I couldn't read music. After that, I studied the bass clef myself, and after that I was able to read it quite well, so I was able to handle any situation."

Entering the world of songwriting, arranging and producing!!

From the second half of the 1970s, he began to work in the areas of composing, arranging and producing, and his arrangements for Sawada Kenji's "TOKIO" (1979), as well as works by Shibugakitai, Isseikifumi Sepia, Tunnels, Kudo Shizuka and others, all topped the charts one after another. Next, we asked him how he got started composing and arranging songs like this...

"While working as a studio musician (bass player) doing backing for pop songs, I got to know people from record companies... and they started asking me if I wanted to try arranging. I don't remember exactly who my first song was, but I think it was by Shinji Harada. After his debut, he released three albums, one month apart, and my arrangement of the song on the third album, "Shadow Boxer," may have been the first to make it onto the charts.
After that, I think TOKIO moved from the era when there were people who specialized in arranging and the players were given sheet music in the studio to perform, to an era when players started out as players and acted as arrangers in the studio. It wasn't something like a large string ensemble in the background, but music made using a computer, and I myself won an arrangement award for it..."

You've become better known as an arranger rather than a player. Has this led to any changes in your own musical career?

"It's a blessing, but I thought that this is the era we live in. For example, you can't arrange an orchestra with just strings and no drums, so rather than calling myself an arranger, computers have come along and I use them myself... I think I'm the type of arranger who exists in the current of the times. Somewhere in my mind, I always thought of myself as someone who hasn't studied (specialization). But I was being asked to do work in that environment, so I thought I'd learn by doing."

As for Isseiki Fuumi Sepia, you were in charge of producing their music in general even before their debut. Do you have any stories from that time?

"They requested that we use Japanese instruments and melody lines. They themselves had been performing on the streets before their debut, so rather than thinking about Western music, they were very conscious of Japan, including their movements. So we filled the piece with that as a starting point. Also, when I went to see a performance in Shibuya beforehand, they were performing with folk-like music that they had found somewhere...Anyway, they were very popular with girls even back then (laughs)."

Also, we can't talk about the Onyanko Club boom without mentioning you, Goto-san. Is there anything you keep in mind when working on so-called idol music?

"The first idol song I've worked on to make it onto the charts was Kondo Masahiko. It's not a problem for guys, but for girls, the 'sound' I create is 'strong'. In that sense, I'm always conscious that I need to 'tame it'. It's fine when I'm using a synthesizer bass, but when I play the bass myself, the 'sound' ends up being too 'strong'. I think I understand that, but... it's no good when I pick up an instrument. (laughs) With 'songs', the song comes first, so in that sense, I'm always thinking about the balance of the overall sound, and how the vocals and the sound are coming together."

Do you have any preferences when it comes to music genres, be it idols or enka?

"When I was a studio musician, I only occasionally played enka. I mostly played bass for idol pop bands. After that, if I was asked to do so, I would arrange music of any genre, so even now I don't think about the genre at all. Also, I bought a piano late, when I was about 25 years old. The reason for this is... when I started arranging in various genres, I felt there were limitations to using just the guitar, so I bought a piano out of necessity."

In the case of Shizuka Kudo, who is also an idol, you have been in charge of most of her singles since her debut single "Forbidden Telepathy" (1987). I imagine it was difficult to work with one artist for such a long time.

"In her case, we made 20 songs over five years, at a pace of four singles per year. The person in charge of direction and production was Yuzo Watanabe of Canyon Records, who would first come up with a concept for what he wanted to do this time. I would create each song based on that concept, so I didn't have to worry about it getting monotonous.
Well, this is a general statement, but if you make 20 songs, even if the artist changes, some of them will be "colorful" and some will be "pale". (laughs)
But on the other hand, because you can also get to know the good and bad points of an artist, if you can use that to your advantage you can create a "colorful" and good work... that's a problem that always haunts us. If you keep doing the same (image) thing, it's called "individuality" in a good sense, and "repetitive" or "one-dimensional" in a bad sense. Also, if you keep changing it each time as if it was made by a different person (writer), you're called colorless or unprincipled. It's important to understand that and find the right balance. Writers (in the music industry) aren't like those in professional baseball who have multi-year contracts and write a lot of songs (laughs)..."

By the way, you also worked on various news programs at Nippon Television, including "NNN Today's Events" (April 1995 to March 2002), "The Sunday" (February 1998), and "Zipangu Asa 6" (April 1998). In particular, for "Today's Events," you were in charge of producing all of the music. What are your memories of that time?

"I remember that we started working on it in the studio at the end of 1994. The title sequence (of a program) is limited to a few seconds, so I thought it was important to create an impact that would draw people in on TV. At the same time, I asked illustrator Yokoo Tadanori about his CG concept while working on it, and I wanted to make an impact that would make people who had the TV on but weren't paying attention to the screen start watching it again. After the title sequence, when the MC enters the studio, the music should have a soothing feel. When the headlines start, I also thought about creating a sense of tension again. On the other hand, when it came to the actual BGM, I wondered whether an emotional production, unlike that of a drama, would be better. For example, in the case of sad news, should music be used that is extremely depressing? Also, it is very difficult to choose music for headline news, which is a jumble of serious news, political news, and topics. That being said, it is not good to express everything neutrally. Each program has its own color, and this is also difficult. (laughs) In the first place, it is impossible to predict what kind of news will come out each day, so for the headlines, I tried to make the music fast-paced and fast-paced... In total, they used it for seven years, and it was one of the most interesting pieces of my work, and it became a memorable experience.

Looking back on 30 years as a musician

He began his professional music career as a bass player at the age of 19. At first, he couldn't even play the piano, so he began arranging and composing music by trial and error.
Looking back on all of this, Goto says he feels like all of these practical experiences have honed his craft, but looking back over his 30-plus years as a musician, what has been the most important thing to him?

"The reason I became interested in music is simply, unconditionally, because I thought it was cool. So, whenever I feel like I'm at a loss in my daily work, I always return to this phrase.
I don't want to lose this feeling. As long as I use music as a weapon, the basic principle is to be "cool". I always try to remember the feeling I had when I first picked up an instrument at about 14 years old. Within that, my consistent stance has been to create music in various genres and to challenge myself with various things.

When composing or arranging, are there any particular points that you are particular about that you have developed over many years as a player?

“I don’t have any complexes about it, but because I didn’t study properly, a lot of things happened – for example, as I mentioned earlier, I was chased away because I couldn’t read music (laughs). But maybe somewhere inside me I feel that music isn’t like that.
I always play the bass with my feelings at the time, so I can't express that nuance with the knowledge of music that I learned. I don't think there's much point in doing that. In this world, there must have been "sound" before music was written... (I myself) haven't studied enough to be able to proudly call myself a composer or an arranger. However, I started playing an instrument first, so I'm confident in that part, to put it in a good way, and that part is the "coolness" of the music image I mentioned earlier. Above all, I started as a bass player, so I didn't want to lose that part.
For example, when I hear a song I wrote being played at a karaoke bar in the shopping district, I think, "Oh, I guess people are recognizing me," and that makes me happy. But I can't shake the joy I feel when I play my instrument, work up a sweat, and come back to the dressing room. The reason I made my first CD album in 18 years was because I wanted to try being a bass player again. I don't think I would have come this far if I didn't have the bass.

So, as someone who writes songs, what do you think is the secret to a hit?

"I have no idea. Even if they didn't sell, there are many songs that I think were good, and even if some songs become hits, I still wonder if they were good...
Of course, there are trends in singers, and various factors such as the marketing power of the agency are taken into account, and I think a hit is the result of all of these factors. I have never thought, "It's sure to be a hit, I understand the world," just by writing the melody and creating the music. It's all about the overall picture... it's coincidence (laughs)."

Now, let's talk about you as a player. I heard that you recently performed live at the live house "Yellow" in Nishi-Azabu.

"I was invited to an event by Hideo Yamaki (drummer) and we formed a unit. In addition to my own bass solos, I plan to make this unit with Yamaki a regular feature on CDs in the future."

By the way, apart from music, I heard that your hobby is cars?

Future aspirations and dreams

Goto spoke about his relationship with the bass, saying, "I didn't know much about music theory, but I think having the bass as an instrument always by my side helped me to grow a little."
Finally, when asked what his future goals are...

"I guess it's about making music in a place where I'm at home and in a way that I'm comfortable with.
Of course, I have more positive feelings through my instrument... I want to speed up my solo bass CD (again). One reason is that I want to leave something behind, but another reason is that I'm getting older (as a player) and I don't know how much longer I can play my instrument in front of people. I need to speed up my "musical instrument life" a bit more. I'm also worried about how long I'll be able to hold my instrument properly in front of people.

On a side note, I hear your children are still young.

"He's like my grandson. (Laughs) I was 49 when he was born, so he's only two years old... That makes me all the more anxious about whether I'll be able to keep doing my job properly until my child is old enough to recognize his father's work. I also have a slight desire to leave something behind (a CD) as a testimony."

Come to think of it, the cover of the CD that was released the other day also matches the image of a child, doesn't it?

"That was a design by (Noritake) Kinashi, and it was inspired by the image of a baby in its mother's womb. Kinashi's solo exhibition had just finished, and he had begun working on this design. So when we talked about the jacket, the image matched perfectly, so we decided to quickly finish it..."

Goto-san appeared in an outfit that, frankly, you wouldn't expect from someone over 50. As he is still an active bass player, he looks cool, and his passionate way of talking about his fascination with the bass is also really cool.
We look forward to seeing even more young and energetic success from you in the future.