Ainz ooal gown (Overlord) VS Naraku (inuyasha)

[Angelman]

Killing the Jewel is impossible, its a fundamental force in the Inuyasha series, maybe if Ainz could erase concepts themselves he could do it but otherwise its like the time stone from marvel. Its possible to fragment the jewel using Kagomes miraculous arrows but breaking it apart any further further than shards simply doesn't work. On top of this, the jewel will always mess with causality so that it is reformed, even if the jewel is sent to another world, taken to the depths of hell, or stuck in a pocket dimension, it will always find its way back.

If destroying was Jewel was actually a method that was feasible the entire show's near 200 episode story would be pointless, the main cast had a black hole attack, dimension slicing blade, Kagomes miraculous arrows, and a variety of highly destructive physical / magical attacks. They would have just destroyed one of the jewel shards permanently so the jewel could never be reformed and problem solved. What actually happens is that the jewel shards cannot be dissolved, cannot be further broken down even with miracles, even if they ended up in a black hole or an alternate reality they will find their way back together. The jewels wish potential is also far superior to Ainz using his wish granting spell, Inuyasha is an isekai similar to Overlord, and kagome using the Jewel could freely wish to go back home or bring her friends with her, Ainz meanwhile using his wish ability cannot even confirm if there are other real life players in his world.

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Things in the stone are not immune from destruction as in the Manga the demons were destroyed when Inuyasha slashed the light.
Also it doesn't matter if the Jewel reforms again in 5 years. Ainz only need to finish off Naraku one way or another, destroying he jewel, killing the demons inside etc etc.

 

[klaatu]

Which is useless. Reality Slash is not about firepower, it entire ignores magical barriers. Also it isn't about AoE, it does high damage to a person by cutting through space.

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The scale of its ignoring is far inferior to the scale of attacks being used on Naraku. ahis barriers ignore anti magic defenses like that.

Ainz has more spells that Reality slash. He has nuke spell and all the shit he used when battling Shalltear. Just saying.

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Those nukes are way weaker than the big booms used on Naraku that he flat out ignored. IY's first magic sword attack clears more than Ainz nukes, and that's the weakest.

Frankly Naraku out endures Ainz.

 

[Mnarutto]

Things in the stone are not immune from destruction as in the Manga the demons were destroyed when Inuyasha slashed the light.
Also it doesn't matter if the Jewel reforms again in 5 years. Ainz only need to finish off Naraku one way or another, destroying he jewel, killing the demons inside etc etc.

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That's actually wrong The demons mostly just ran away they've been fighting their entire existence in there They pretty much already won kagome was about to make the wish. And she did right afterwards That's why they never came back They were never there to fight anyone other than kagome.

Naraku is the wish that the Jewel wants He's there to a at the end of the series he is one of the demons in the jewel so it doesn't even matter.

 

[Angelman]

That's actually wrong The demons mostly just ran away they've been fighting their entire existence in there They pretty much already won kagome was about to make the wish. And she did right afterwards That's why they never came back They were never there to fight anyone other than kagome.

Naraku is the wish that the Jewel wants He's there to a at the end of the series he is one of the demons in the jewel so it doesn't even matter.

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When Inuyasha attacks it all the demons including Naraku disappeared.

The scale of its ignoring is far inferior to the scale of attacks being used on Naraku. ahis barriers ignore anti magic defenses like that.

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Irrelevant because Reality Slash ignore the barrier, in simple terms it's useless

 

[LightSpeedZephyr]

Things in the stone are not immune from destruction as in the Manga the demons were destroyed when Inuyasha slashed the light.
Also it doesn't matter if the Jewel reforms again in 5 years. Ainz only need to finish off Naraku one way or another, destroying he jewel, killing the demons inside etc etc.

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Things in the jewel can be purified yes, killing them doesn't count as purification, the jewel itself still won't be destroyed either. I am not sure how long ago you watched the series but you're missing some huge context from the final fight, it was a multi step effort with many things going just right at once to kill Naraku. Purifying the demons inside and severing his connection to the Jewel isn't what kills him, its what peeled off his last layer of immortality. There are multiple layers that need to be dealt with simultaneously, first his entire true body needs to be put into a perpetual death state which required the sword of heaven to spread an anti demon blessing that transcended all of Naraku's barriers and spread to every body part anywhere in the world through their network.

After this a dimension slicing attack was needed to separate Naraku from the jewel, not just 1 dimension slicing attack, but Inuyasha spamming them dozens of times.




Only after this was achieved, Kagomes miraculous arrow shot could purify the gem enough that Naraku couldn't draw power from it or reconnect to it in a reasonable time.

This all happened at the same time, there isn't an easy way to kill Naraku, an ability like fallen down is actually barely on the level of early series attacks from people massively weaker than Naraku.




In the manga this specific attack flat out carved multiple mountains in the range.

Another example




Literally in the first 10 episodes of a 200 episode series, when the characters were dozens of times weaker than they were by end of series, mountain carving was still common.

 

[Jawaunw12]

That's actually wrong The demons mostly just ran away they've been fighting their entire existence in there They pretty much already won kagome was about to make the wish. And she did right afterwards That's why they never came back They were never there to fight anyone other than kagome.

Naraku is the wish that the Jewel wants He's there to a at the end of the series he is one of the demons in the jewel so it doesn't even matter.

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When Inuyasha attacks it all the demons including Naraku disappeared.

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You're both wrong about the circumstances that are happening Inuyasha was the true successor to the Priestess for the battle the entire time. Kagome was just her spirit and when she made the correct wish to purify the souls inside he was never really till he was just purified he finally went on to and cease to exist the same state that his beloved went to because the wish that Naraku made erased her soul from existence.

Irrelevant because Reality Slash ignore the barrier, in simple terms it's useless

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The reality slash is useless in this circumstance because it doesn't have an instant kill. So it wouldn't even matter if he used the the goal of all life is death need a instant kill move. which still has to get past this barrier and the only move currently that he has that can do that is the reality flash which doesn't have an instant death affect

[

 

[Ecoho]

How strong are they,please?

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as someone has said already not that strong for the ones he releases in mass that can range between the standard undead ainz raises and death knights, but his incarnations are more in the level of the guardians given the hax they posses and their ability to fight the main cast.
honestly this debate has become quite silly now as im pretty sure the consensus is ainz loses due to being unable to keep naraku down ,with the only difference being how long it takes for the most part, and is being kept alive by people who clearly have only researched one side of the debate in any real way.(or in the case of one their inability to accept logical reasoning)

 

[Sadistic Jane]

Naraku doesn't have HP. More numerical damage doesn't mean a thing to him.
And slashing through him won't matter if he's immortal and regenerates. He just fixes the damage and moves on.

Frankly this applies to most reality-slashing attacks. It sounds awesome until you realize that any of them that don't keep space separated forever are... basically just another sword slash. Overdoing the cut isn't useful.

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Abilities work as described. It's literally a VS forum rule. Also, Overlord characters don't have HP in the traditional gaming sense. Their HP, much like their mana, is seen as an aura around them not a hard HP bar with numbers attached.

Logic like is regularly used to downplay stuff like SAO, it doesn't fly then and it won't now. Not to mention that it would make it impossible to debate any setting with game-like mechanics. For example: Let's say you have a character that has the ability to cut anyones HP to 1% and you have them fight a regular human. You don't get to argue that the ability won't work because the human doesn't technically have HP.

Reality Slash deals decent damage to characters that can shrug off tactical nukes. Shalltear can regen and heal herself just fine, she still had to use her time reversal skill to deal with Reality Slash. It's not just some sword slash.

 

[Friendlysociopath]

Abilities work as described. It's literally a VS forum rule.

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Common Sense is stamped on the same rule fyi.

You don't get to argue that the ability won't work because the human doesn't technically have HP.

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Actually yes, you do, like that literally has popped up for video games in VsDebates for years of older gaming franchises. Doesn't fly for them either. Heartless Angel has been dismissed every single time it has ever come up for this reason.

Overlord is not special in that regard. It gets treated the same as everything else. It just gets complained about more.

 

[Sadistic Jane]

Common Sense is stamped on the same rule fyi.

Actually yes, you do, like that literally has popped up for video games in VsDebates for years. Doesn't fly for them either. Heartless Angel has been dismissed every single time it has ever come up for this reason.

Overlord is not special in that regard. It gets treated the same as everything else.

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The I guess every setting with game-like mechanics just got a massive nerf. Have fun explaining that in debates involving ReZero, Nasuverse, Shield Hero, Cautious Hero, Grimgar, etc.

 

[Friendlysociopath]

The I guess every setting with game-like mechanics just got a massive nerf. Have fun explaining that in debates involving ReZero, Nasuverse, Shield Hero, Cautious Hero, Grimgar, etc.

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Nasuverse isn't a video game at all.
Shield Hero uses feats- not damage numbers.
Can't think of a single time a Cautious Hero debate went, "This attack dealt a thousand damage and a lesser ability dealt a hundred" or anything similar.
SAO debates don't dive into numerical values either.

So sure- nerfed.

 

[Sadistic Jane]

Nasuverse isn't a video game at all.
Shield Hero uses feats- not damage numbers.
Can't think of a single time a Cautious Hero debate went, "This attack dealt a thousand damage and a lesser ability dealt a hundred" or anything similar.
SAO debates don't dive into numerical values either.

So sure- nerfed.

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Nasuverse has game-like mechanics
Shield Hero has game-like mechanics
Cautious Hero has game-like mechanics
SAO is literally a video game
Overlord has game-like mechanics

Overlord doesn't even use numerical values either, what are you on about?

 

[LightSpeedZephyr]

Reality Slash deals decent damage to characters that can shrug off tactical nukes. Shalltear can regen and heal herself just fine, she still had to use her time reversal skill to deal with Reality Slash. It's not just some sword slash.

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How does this change the outcome of the match in any way whatsoever? Naraku has demonstrated the ability to regen from from an ability that works exactly like reality slash immediately after being hit. His hp functionally is infinite in this case unless Ainz can deal with all his various forms of immortality at the same time, which he demonstratively can't.

Besides this, a tactical nuke is massively weaker than early inuyasha attacks, end of series attacks tore rifts between the alternate universes and reshaped huge portions of landscapes, Naraku still couldn't be hurt due to his barrier.

Ainz is not capable of killing every part of Naraku at the same time given that Naraku hides himself quickly across great distances, even if he kills every single atom of Naraku at once, Naraku comes back right away due to the jewel. Ainz cannot destroy the jewel, he likely will not be able to even get to a point where he can bypass the layers of barriers Naraku immediately sets up and sever Naraku from the Jewel. He definitely cannot purify the Jewel so Naraku is unable to reconnect to it, and this all has to happen while every single piece of Naraku that can easily be scattered across the world is in a state of perpetual death. On top of everything listed earlier, the vs battle set up doesn't include perfect knowledge, Ainz doesn't even know how to kill Naraku in the first place while Ainz has no special immortality that protects him against a rapid flurry of mountain busting attacks.

 

[Sadistic Jane]

How does this change the outcome of the match in any way whatsoever? Naraku has demonstrated the ability to regen from from an ability that works exactly like reality slash immediately after being hit. His hp functionally is infinite in this case unless Ainz can deal with all his various forms of immortality at the same time, which he demonstratively can't.

Besides this, a tactical nuke is massively weaker than early inuyasha attacks, end of series attacks tore rifts between the alternate universes and reshaped huge portions of landscapes, Naraku still couldn't be hurt due to his barrier.

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You'll note that I haven't made an argument as to who wins or why. What Friendlysociopath is doing is setting up a really bad precedent and pretty much flies against the rules of the forum, hence why I called him out on that specific point. So, either we go by his interpretation and make it near-impossible to debate settings with game-like mechanics or even settings that have their own special rules, or we stick to the rules of the forum and abilities work as described.

 

[Friendlysociopath]

Nasuverse has game-like mechanics
Shield Hero has game-like mechanics
Cautious Hero has game-like mechanics
SAO is literally a video game
Overlord has game-like mechanics

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The argument was never that a series cannot use game mechanics. Only that dealing "more damage" is not an acceptable one. It never has been for ANY game series. Precedent already exists for that sort of thing for YEARS.

It's for that exact reason OPs are often required to outright OP rule how Kirito's HP works as well as his attacks. And that Kirito's strength is based off of what physical showings he can come up with (breaking cliffs, cutting through armor) rather than raw HP damage.

Reality Slash ignores defense so durability is not what the high damage part refers to. High damage refers to how much HP it takes away and that is entirely irrelevant to someone without HP.
It can cut him in half. We see this happen and we can work around that happening in an objective method.
No such thing can be done with HP- be it just in a vague, "This does more HP" damage or "this takes all but 1% of your HP" damage. The latter has been dismissed from Final Fantasy debates for longer than Overlord has existed.

 

[LightSpeedZephyr]

Reality Slash ignores defense so durability is not what the high damage part refers to. High damage refers to how much HP it takes away and that is entirely irrelevant to someone without HP.

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Just adding onto this point, Naraku during a fight outright mentioned that Inuyasha could keep blowing him apart using windscar all day long for the next 100 years and it wouldn't bring him any closer to death, as his actual heart was miles away. The level of numerical damage the ability does doesn't really matter here, even if fallen down does something like 100 and reality slash inflicts something like 1000 on the given target, when the target has an HP bar that will never diminish.

In short using game mechanics won't work here, the ability demonstrably cuts space and erase a portion of the character like a normal sword strike but ignores durability, the space cut though can automatically heal and the damage won't spread across the body / network.

 

[Murazor]

Just adding onto this point, Naraku during a fight outright mentioned that Inuyasha could keep blowing him apart using windscar all day long for the next 100 years and it wouldn't bring him any closer to death, as his actual heart was miles away.

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Naraku reabsorbed the baby and lost his absolute immortality deal well before the end of the series, I'll note.

Bakusaiga became a threat towards the end of the series because Naraku while still very hard to kill had lost his perfect immortality/unlimited regeneration combo.

 

[LightSpeedZephyr]

Naraku reabsorbed the baby and lost his absolute immortality deal well before the end of the series, I'll note.

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He replaced the baby immortality with the Jewel which is far superior, so it doesn't matter much.

 

[Murazor]

He replaced the baby immortality with the Jewel which is far superior, so it doesn't matter much.

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He became a flying Kaiju spider-Tardis, but jewel powered immortality being superior to what the baby as a phylactery offered him is a whole other debate.

 

[LightSpeedZephyr]

He became a flying Kaiju spider-Tardis, but jewel powered immortality being superior to what the baby as a phylactery offered him is a whole other debate.

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The regeneration from the Jewel was essentially equally infinite, Bakusaiga affected Naruku's entire body through the network and was infinitely killing every part of him, but Naraku still did not truly die until the Jewel was permanently disconnected from him through Inuyasha severing it and Kagome purifying it.

 

[Murazor]

IIRC the regeneration from the Jewel was equally infinite, Bakusaiga affected Naruku's entire body through the network and was infinitely killing every part of him, but he still wasn't actually dying until the Jewel was permanently disconnected from him through Inuyasha severing it and Kagome purifying it.

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It has been long enough that I am not going to claim 100% certainty in this, but as far as I can recall following the re-absorption of the baby and Moryomaru Naraku was down to the following layers of "hard to kill".

-Aura of miasma, which is a considerable defense against anyone who cannot outright no-sell the thing.
-His bubble barrier, which as far as I remember was automatic and in the later versions could outright send magic attacks back to sender.
-His fairly high natural durability and the various armor upgrades he got from eating Moryomaru.
-The sheer external size of his final form as a flying spider demon the size of a kaiju.
-The fact that the internal dimensions of his body are even larger than that.
-The fact that he doesn't have any anatomical weakspots and gives all of no shits about anything damaging his body, since he controls all his flesh and can reabsorb any piece of his body that is not outright destroyed.

So that's a whole bunch of bullshit to get through, but as far as I recall he didn't have the "perfect" regenerative immortality he enjoyed during the time that the baby was acting as a horcrux away from his primary body. That's why towards the end Naraku was worried about the Kazaana, the Bakusaiga, the miasma absorbing properties of the final Hiraikotsu reforging and the Cutting Meido, since all of those things could permanently decrease his body mass in large amounts.

Now, there was some fuckery in the very final final battle against the true body of Naraku at the center of Naraku's spider body in which the Sacred Jewel protected him from being sent away by the Cutting Meido and he fused with it, but as far as I can recall that version of Naraku is largely featless since he got his ass purified by Kagome about half a second later.

 

[Sadistic Jane]

The argument was never that a series cannot use game mechanics. Only that dealing "more damage" is not an acceptable one. It never has been for ANY game series.

It's for that exact reason OPs are often required to outright OP rule how Kirito's HP works.

Reality Slash ignores defense so durability is not what the high damage part refers to. High damage refers to how much HP it takes away and that is entirely irrelevant to someone without HP.
It can cut him in half. We see this happen and we can work around that happening in an objective method.
No such thing can be done with HP- be it just in a vague, "This does more HP" damage or "this takes all but 1% of your HP" damage. The latter has been dismissed from Final Fantasy debates for longer than Overlord has existed.

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Except that's your argument. You're literally saying that because Naraku doesn't have an HP bar Reality Slash won't deal more damage because it would just be a sword slash. Except we know that Reality Slash does deal more damage because we know characters that shrug off tactical nukes do in fact take more damage from Reality Slash. So yes, the argument that Reality Slash deals more damage is acceptable because that is literally what happened.

Of course if you want to stick to you logic then this also applies to other verses. Genjutsu no longer works outside of Narutoverse because it's specific to the setting. Reiatsu is no longer an issue because it's a mechanic specific to Bleach. Nasuverse magic, magic resistance, and Noble Phantasms just shit the bed since they rely on ranks and a bunch of other stuff which is specific to the setting. Except, all of this goes against forum rules because abilities work as described.

The problem with you logic is that it makes it near impossible to debate VS with a lot of settings since one side can just claim "well [insert mechanic here] doesn't exist in [insert setting here] and therefore in won't work as described". The rule that abilities work as described exists precisely to stop this from happening. We know Reality Slash dealt more damage, that's a feat. Therefore it will deal more damage regardless of whether the target has a HP-like mechanics or not. How this translates to a character that doesn't technically have HP, who knows? But an ability doesn't suddenly get nerfed/buffed just because another setting doesn't have a direct comparisson.

 

[Friendlysociopath]

You're literally saying that because Naraku doesn't have an HP bar Reality Slash won't deal more damage because it would just be a sword slash. Except we know that Reality Slash does deal more damage because we know characters that shrug off tactical nukes do in fact take more damage from Reality Slash. So yes, the argument that Reality Slash deals more damage is acceptable because that is literally what happened.

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You're repeating yourself and not gaining any ground in doing so.

Of course if you want to stick to you logic then this also applies to other verses. Genjutsu no longer works outside of Narutoverse because it's specific to the setting. Reiatsu is no longer an issue because it's a mechanic specific to Bleach. Nasuverse magic, magic resistance, and Noble Phantasms just shit the bed since they rely on ranks and a bunch of other stuff which is specific to the setting. Except, all of this goes against forum rules because abilities work as described.

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Note that those same things ARE often argued about because it's NOT some solid rule of, "This always works without question" and that's not what the rule says in the first place.
People factually ignore the shit out of Ranks when it comes to Nasuverse because there's typically no equivalent. OPs factually alter characters from Bleach like, "X can see and interact with Soul Reapers in Y fashion".
It's funny how Genjutsu is always cited for Naruto but the guy who shoves bugs up Chakra tubes never gets the slightest mention despite his power not working at all- no exceptions being made because of excessive complaints there are all.

You are picking the worst examples of this supposedly air-tight rule that backs you up.
Naraku doesn't have HP. More damage specifically to HP doesn't mean anything to him. It IS near impossible to debate fictions with different metaphysics. That's not unique to Overlord in the slightest and it's why in most of the cases where metaphysics don't line up people ask the OP to make a ruling.
If you still don't like it then just ask the OP to make a ruling about it. That's what happens for fully half of your cited franchises including the one closest to Overlord (SAO) in which the OP is almost always asked how to actually interpret Kirito because HP values mean fuck-all.

 

[dragoth]

Attention! the following is an op ruling

reality slash will work as described.

 

[Ecoho]

Attention! the following is an op ruling

reality slash will work as described.

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so its just a cut? your going to need to be more clear are we giving naraku hp now or what? cause if so this becomes fan fiction thus not worth debating.