NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
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Warning: lots of images!

Over the years we've come to learn from many of the Rare old guard about many of the cancelled projects in Rare's vault (things like the Project Dream tech demo, many of the cancelled Banjo concepts, etc). One thing that's also become fairly obvious over the years is that Conker's Bad Fur Day was never meant to be the franchise's swan song before the Microsoft acquisition, the game's director and designer Chris Seavor has gone on record a few times to talk about his ideas for a sequel (one of the only known ideas was that Conker would have a terrible tenure as king and lose all his money, and that the first part of the game was him escaping from prison), but today he went onto Twitter to share what was intended to be the game's full story. There's a fair degree to digest here but for those who are unable to embed materials here's a brief summary.

(URLs aren't working for some reason right now, go to @conkerhimself on Twitter for source)




  • Conker's Bad Fur Day 2 - which had the working title of "Other Bad Day" - compared to the original, would have a much more "deeper" story that would be closer to the action (the original Bad Fur Day had a very gag-focused story with no real antagonist for Conker until the end).
  • The Panther King would return as a central antagonist, but he would team up with Greg the Grim Reaper in order to get revenge on Conker.
  • Greg disovers a clause that squirrels can stay permanently dead if they are executed by beheading via a state decree.
  • The game would have a four-act structure, the main story would concern Berri, while three subplots revolve around Conker regaining the throne, The Panther King's return, and Conker escaping "The Basement" (the afterlife, which is essentially a big club).
  • Conker is framed for the death of Don Weaso (who escaped in the first game), and sent to execution.
  • It's hinted early that Professor von Kriplespac was to return as the main antagonist, and Berri is held captive in suspended animation.
  • You would play as the Panther King in Conker's body for at least one section of the game, regaining all his lost money, and also fight his old "friends" (rip The Raptor and Franky).
  • Conker teams up with his newly deceased friends in the afterlife, taking a ferry called the Gigantic to return to the living (where he meets a new love interest; Bunni the Rabbit).
  • It culminates in a boss battle against Death and the Panther King/Conker Doppelgänger. Conker beats Death and banishes the Panther King to the prison tower. Conker, now back to life, sporting an eyepatch and a stitched neck, is back as king and plans to wed Bunni.
  • In a DKC type credits fakeout, a giant battleship called the DeathStarfish invades the planet. Conker needs to team up with everyone, including the Panther King, to take it on. The final boss ends up being a Berri Cyborg.

There's a lot more here including the structure of the game itself, the increase of parodies, and so forth. Well worth a read.
 
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HibbySloth

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Oct 25, 2017
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Rare has to be one of the most mismanaged game studios in history. It's astounding how many cancelled or scrapped projects they have during the Xbox and 360 era.
 

Prine

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Oct 25, 2017
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Rare has to be one of the most mismanaged game studios in history. It's astounding how many cancelled or scrapped projects they have during the Xbox and 360 era.
They're doing fine at the moment. But id like the team to attempt another old ip.
 

Dr. Feel Good

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Oct 25, 2017
3,996
Rare has to be one of the most mismanaged game studios in history. It's astounding how many cancelled or scrapped projects they have during the Xbox and 360 era.

To be fair it's not like Conker was a major seller on either N64 or Xbox. From a business perspective a sequel really never made sense.

Damn shame though because the original is truly one of the greatest games of all time.
 

Luigi87

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
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This definitely sounds like what I would have wanted out of the sequel... Sad it never came to be =(
 

-shadow-

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
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I could've sworn this was released before, but oh well. Shame we never got a sequel, could've been some amazing spectacle.
 

HibbySloth

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
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Talk about hyperbole. LOL. They'd no longer exist if they were the "most mismanaged games studio in history".

I severely doubt that. Rare was hardly successful as an Xbox studio before Kinect Sports, but it has a lot to do with the Xbox audience and the games Rare made not fitting together.

I mean, just from the Xbox and the 360 we know these games were canned or scrapped.

Perfect Dark Core
Conker's Other Bad Day
Banjo-Kazoomie
Banjo X
Kameo 2
Sabreman Stampede
Urchin
SoulCatcher
Black Widow
Quest
The Fast and the Furriest
Sundown
 

Ithil

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Oct 25, 2017
23,471
Seems extremely ambitious. Did he mention whether it was designed with the intention of being on the Gamecube or Xbox?
 
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NotLiquid

NotLiquid

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Oct 25, 2017
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Seems extremely ambitious. Did he mention whether it was designed with the intention of being on the Gamecube or Xbox?
Most of the game concepts were drafted almost immediately after Bad Fur Day released, so this presumably targeted Gamecube. By the time Live & Reloaded came out, Seavor was pursuing other concepts with the franchise (seemingly multiplayer focused titles), since Microsoft allegedly weren't that interested in a true Conker sequel. I'm guessing Live & Reloaded was mainly greenlit off the back of its multiplayer.
 

Pryme

Member
Aug 23, 2018
8,164
Rare has to be one of the most mismanaged game studios in history. It's astounding how many cancelled or scrapped projects they have during the Xbox and 360 era.

Lmfao. Studios have long learnt not to rely on what fans say. Conker didn't sell big numbers on N64 or Xbox. Heck, Kinect sports delivered far better returns for rare and MS than a Conker sequel could have.


Reminds me of how fans wailed on and on about a Mirror's edge sequel and when EA made it, nobody bought it.




Most of those were basic pitches. Misinformation to say they were 'games' or got 'scrapped' when most never got to pre-production.
Pretty much every studio has a list of ideas that never survived the first pitch.
 

HibbySloth

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Lmfao. Studios have long learnt not to rely on what fans say. Conker didn't sell big numbers on N64 or Xbox. Heck, Kinect sports delivered far better returns for rare and MS than a Conker sequel could have.

You're not wrong. Rare's games definitely do very well on Xbox. I honestly believe they would have found more success if they became a third party developer instead, but that's neither here nor there or anything I can prove.

Most of those were basic pitches. Misinformation to say they were 'games' or got 'scrapped' when most never got to pre-production.
Pretty much every studio has a list of ideas that never survived the first pitch.

That's true. Even Rare in the 90's had a few pitches that didn't go anywhere. My point really is to show just how many games Rare had either pitched or were at least working on at point during their early years with Microsoft. Unless I'm mistaken, it was a lot easier for Rare back in the day to make the games they wanted because they weren't owned by anyone. The Stampers called the shots at the end of the day.
 

Renna Hazel

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Oct 27, 2017
11,797
I'm still having a hard time getting over the loss of Rare. The Xbox thing just didn't work out and I pretty much lost my favorite company after Nintendo. I still hold out hope that they'll return to form and make the games their fans want one day.
 

SpankyDoodle

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Oct 25, 2017
6,082
This is heartbreaking, Conker's BFD is one of my favorite games of all time. I used to be on some Rare fan message board and Chris Seavor posted there, got to know him and he even sent me a Conker's BFD shirt. I really wish MS had utilized Rare better.

Talk about hyperbole. LOL. They'd no longer exist if they were the "most mismanaged games studio in history".
I get what you're saying but the Rare that we knew and loved from the SNES/N64 games very much no longer exists. A company with the name Rare still exists yes but droves of the people that made Rare, Rare, are gone, and it's because of how they were mismanaged after the acquisition.

I remember reading some abysmal stories about the state of the company and morale from former and then-current employees after the buyout when they were working on the Avatar sports games. ):
 
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HibbySloth

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Oct 25, 2017
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Hate to break it to you but Rare isn't the only company to cancel games.

I'm fully aware. Rare's one of the hardest to fall. Sea of Thieves is great but it's a far cry from what the studio used to make.

I remember reading some abysmal stories about the state of the company and morale from former and then-current employees after the buyout when they were working on the Avatar sports games. ):

Yep. Just look at how many people have branched off from Rare wanting to make something different. For a studio that once felt like a second Nintendo, they really don't anymore.
 
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Prof Bathtub

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Apr 26, 2018
2,677
Sounds like an ambitious sequel, judging by the amount of places and gameplay segments. Very much in the Tooie style of a sequel with new areas contiguous with the first game's layout, with prior areas blocked off. Though who knows what the structure would end up like, even if this pitch was greenlit.

I guess the prospect of even more contemporary movie parodies doesn't sound too thrilling nowadays, though I guess you kind of have to make a Titanic parody after The Matrix one in the first game.
 

Kcannon

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,689
Remember hearing about this a few years ago. Specifically, the whole prison escape tutorial and even Cyborg Terminator Berri. Didn't know they would revisit so much plot points from the original.

Seems like Seavor had a pretty clear vision of what the sequel would've been about, although I wouldn't have been surprised if half this stuff ended up being scrapped had it happened.
 
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daTRUballin

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Oct 25, 2017
3,155
Portland, Oregon
I know I'm late to the thread and all, but why is everybody attacking Sponge for saying Rare was mismanaged? You're all acting like this is something crazy to say or something. There's no denying that Rare was heavily mismanaged by Microsoft and maybe even their own internal management during the early MS years. They wouldn't have fallen from such great heights and reduced to making Avatars and casual sports games for years otherwise.

Yes, they're doing (marginally) better NOW, but we're talking pre-Phil Spencer Xbox here. It's funny because I feel like nobody would've contested what Sponge said if he had said this 5-10 years ago. The Mattrick/Ballmer era was a very different time, guys.
 

banter

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Jan 12, 2018
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There was a thread recently about how people feel about Nintendo not purchasing developers like Sony and MS do... Rare is a prime example of how the acquisition of a good developer is not always a good thing. Their content before and after the acquisition is very telling. There are reasons that such acquisitions are commonly referred to as hostile takeovers.
 

Stopdoor

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Oct 25, 2017
5,786
Toronto
Honestly reading this document it sounds as scatterbrained as the original and it kind of astounds me high-budget games could be made at all off such a scatterbrained plan. Like, it doesn't seem possible past Rare's halycon N64 days.

It's not really unbelievable this document was written by a 12 year old but I guess that's the appeal of Conker.
 

Archduke Kong

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Feb 2, 2019
2,328
It's a shame this game never got a sequel considering just how good the original is, I have such specific memories of this game affecting me when I was in college and it was one of the first games to really affect me in a powerful way. That said I doubt lightning could have been caught in a bottle twice. The premise of the sequel sounds awesome, but I have a feeling they would have overdone it with the pop culture stuff.

Oh who am I kidding. Give me the sequel, damnit.
 

daTRUballin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,155
Portland, Oregon
Honestly reading this document it sounds as scatterbrained as the original and it kind of astounds me high-budget games could be made at all off such a scatterbrained plan. Like, it doesn't seem possible past Rare's halycon N64 days.

It's not really unbelievable this document was written by a 12 year old but I guess that's the appeal of Conker.

Ugh. I always roll my eyes when I see this written about Conker........There's nothing in those documents that could be seen as written by a "12 year old". That seems pretty insulting to the people working on the game and the ideas. Video games aren't always meant to be super serious. There's nothing wrong with having more games in the crazy and creative Rare style IMO.

Yes, the concept of Conker may be "scatterbrained", but that could be seen as one of the IP's strengths IMO. Lots of game ideas seem crazy at first glance. Hell, the very concept of Mario is completely insane, but it works! The original Bad Fur Day was a crazy game that was all over the place, but it provided some fun gameplay moments and variety. It wasn't always perfect, but it worked. There's a reason why it's considered one of Rare's best games.
 

Stopdoor

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Oct 25, 2017
5,786
Toronto
Ugh. I always roll my eyes when I see this written about Conker........There's nothing in those documents that could be seen as written by a "12 year old". That seems pretty insulting to the people working on the game and the ideas. Video games aren't always meant to be super serious. There's nothing wrong with having more games in the crazy and creative Rare style IMO.

Yes, the concept of Conker may be "scatterbrained", but that could be seen as one of the IP's strengths IMO. Lots of game ideas seem crazy at first glance. Hell, the very concept of Mario is completely insane, but it works! The original Bad Fur Day was a crazy game that was all over the place, but it provided some fun gameplay moments and variety. It wasn't always perfect, but it worked. There's a reason why it's considered one of Rare's best games.

Well, my point is that's what's appealing about Conker. Yeah, it's kind of unprofessional and all over the place, like how a 12 year old would design it, but that's the point. It's kind of an insult but also its strength, for better or worse.
 

HibbySloth

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
6,287
I know I'm late to the thread and all, but why is everybody attacking Sponge for saying Rare was mismanaged? You're all acting like this is something crazy to say or something. There's no denying that Rare was heavily mismanaged by Microsoft and maybe even their own internal management during the early MS years. They wouldn't have fallen from such great heights and reduced to making Avatars and casual sports games for years otherwise.

Yes, they're doing (marginally) better NOW, but we're talking pre-Phil Spencer Xbox here. It's funny because I feel like nobody would've contested what Sponge said if he had said this 5-10 years ago. The Mattrick/Ballmer era was a very different time, guys.

Well said! I'm thankful Rare isn't stuck making Kinect games anymore, despite how successful they were for them.
 

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
Talk about hyperbole. LOL. They'd no longer exist if they were the "most mismanaged games studio in history".
If you mismanage a company to death, then you've only mismanaged them once. If you mismanage them to the brink of death and then revive them, you can mismanage them over and over and over again.

There was a thread recently about how people feel about Nintendo not purchasing developers like Sony and MS do... Rare is a prime example of how the acquisition of a good developer is not always a good thing. Their content before and after the acquisition is very telling. There are reasons that such acquisitions are commonly referred to as hostile takeovers.
Nintendo should have been the one to buy Rare.

It's like, Disney buying Fox results in a restored Marvel Cinematic Universe. Comcast buying Fox does not. If Comcast buys Fox and the X-Men and Fantastic Four movies suffer under Comcast, that doesn't mean that Disney getting Fox would've been just as bad of an idea.

Disney is the right owner for X-Men and the Fantastic Four. And Nintendo was the right owner for Rare (it's a shame it never happened).
 

aerozombie

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,075
This seems petty. Games get cancelled or scrapped every day.
Come on man, I'm a fan of SNES/N64-era Rare and it's not worth condemning a company and everyone who works there over one game that wouldn't of sold that great anyway.
Admittedly with the internet my comment is presumed as me being serious, but it was really meant as a joking way to say I wish it had happened. I am not actually hoping for MSFT to fail because of Conker 2 not happening lol