Question Backup question, way overdue.

No SD card means no data drive, a major disadvantage and a step backward. If not backed up an OS crash, a drop or malware could cost you all of your critical data.

Use OTA thumb drives for backup. I would use at least two then preferably make 2 or more redundant copies to hdds that are physically and electronically isolated from each other and the PC stored in different locations*. You can never have too many backup drives.
Never encrypt data drives!
Never clone data drives, copy/paste only then verify for size, folder/file count and readability.
Do not use SmartSwitch as a primary backup!

This is how I manage my N10+'s, only Gmail and text messages are in the cloud. I consider them expandable. I have over 600gb of critical data on the phone.

*a near lightning strike or strong magnet in the case of hdds can wipe or corrupt them. A earth grounded metal box or safe is best. Avoid excess temperatures.

stigslim said:

Wow, that was a lot to take in. Thanks for the input. From that I'm going to take it as do it yourself manually, on multiple drives (protected) and store them safely.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

Pretty straight forward. Organizing the data needs some thought.
Music: artist/album/track number
Photos, by year and futher by month/date if you wish.
Make installable backup copies of all your apps.
Backup up your passwords, contacts and any app that allows it like Poweramp.
I like ColorNote for saving bookmarks and more.

Everything you need to do a complete reload should be on those backup copies.

stigslim said:

I have always kept a phone that could take an sd card so I always had a copy of pictures on physical media, I know that's not the best way to do it but it was simple and quick. My question to you guys is now I have a phone with no external storage what would you suggest as a backup solution? My device is not rooted and I just want the ability to copy a folder to cloud storage for instance and for it to update periodically to add new items and delete missing ones. This question has been asked a million times before, but this time I need to stop taking the easy route and find a more permanent and robust solution. Thanks in advance for any help. Loving the 22 ultra too.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

If you are not averse to using a cloud service from a privacy perspective, then you are better off using one from a security (of data) perspective, as well as convenience of access (from any device, anytime). Google Drive and OneDrive have very robust systems and are here to stay for the foreseeable future.

There are other options too like Mega, pCloud, Box, etc but they may or may not survive for as long as Google and Microsoft. You can also considering hosting your own NAS drive, but ONLY if you have in-depth technical knowledge to keep it safe.

Official apps of most cloud services offer automatic backup of camera roll and other folders on your device, but they usually keep the organization of files to their own methodology. If you want to control that as well, then use FolderSync which works excellently well, and better than anything else I have found yet. There is a free version too.

If the cloud account gets hacked, lost, whatever you're boned. 3rd parties screwups can leave you with no data. Will it compress or remove null marks which can damage some files?
If it can go wrong, it will go wrong.
If the internet's down or degraded, no data.
I wouldn't make cloud my primary backup and certainly not my only.

Folder sync. All I know is if it omitted, compressed or altered any of my music's 647 folder/7700 song 257gb database it be next to impossible to repair. So it's a straight copy/paste, verify every time.

Worth noting that some things like emoticons or illegal characters in folder or file names can crash a sync, backup operation including SmartSwitch or a copy/paste. Finding that entry is doable with a straight copy/paste as you have a rough idea of the folder that caused it. Otherwise you could be looking at hundred of gb of data to search.

There is always an IF to everything, so one has to make choices that maximizes returns and minimizes risk, based on requirements. The systems that are in place with these giant corporations are extremely robust, and they take into account all factors that can go wrong, and hence they have several levels of redundancy built into the system, far more than what the average individual is aware of, let alone capable of. More importantly, keeping them secure over the internet is an extremely complex affair, another area that they know better than anyone else.

Despite all that, things can still go wrong, but so can the tiny SD card inside the phone dying off without warning exactly when the other backups elsewhere do. So we leave the theoretical possibilities aside, and look at things more realistically when making choices. The convenience of having access to all files from any device, anytime and from anywhere is an extremely important consideration for me, without compromising security. So cloud subscriptions are the way to go.

I have more than 20,000 songs in just 1 folder. But when I copy them to my phone, all my music magically show up under the correct Album, Artist, Genre, and even Playlists too! I need to do NOTHING other than just copying the files from my computer to my phone (all files inside the Music folder, and no sub-folders). I can copy just what I want too (for example, only files from a given playlist. Show me how to do that using a file manager ). There are apps that let you do that and they are far better and significantly faster than using Windows Explorer/ Mac Finder or any File Manager. It doesn't matter which music app I use, the songs I want always show up in the right place. The reason for this magic is METADATA.

I have been using these files and my system (of managing files) for well over 10 years, and there has never been any corruption or anything that would make me reconsider the way I manage them. Most importantly, I don't have to depend on any app to have access to my music of choice at any given moment. The metadata are INDEPENDENT of apps and platforms (Android, iOS, Windows, macOS or Linux). Every good music app on every platform can filter the music the way I want. The exact same concept applies to photos and videos too.

One has to acknowledge that technology is improving, and there are better tools as well as smarter, more efficient ways of getting things done. Windows Explorer/ Mac Finder are best left to handle non-media files alone. For media, use Media Management Apps.

TheMystic said:

There is always an IF to everything, so one has to make choices that maximizes returns and minimizes risk, based on requirements. The systems that are in place with these giant corporations are extremely robust, and they take into account all factors that can go wrong, and hence they have several levels of redundancy built into the system, far more than what the average individual is aware of, let alone capable of. More importantly, keeping them secure over the internet is an extremely complex affair, another area that they know better than anyone else.

Despite all that, things can still go wrong, but so can the tiny SD card inside the phone dying off without warning exactly when the other backups elsewhere do. So we leave the theoretical possibilities aside, and look at things more realistically when making choices. The convenience of having access to all files from any device, anytime and from anywhere is an extremely important consideration for me, without compromising security. So cloud subscriptions are the way to go.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

That tiny SD card is far less likely to lose data then your SOC. I can also backup my music folder to my .5tb internal memory if I choose to.

TheMystic said:

I have more than 20,000 songs in just 1 folder. But when I copy them to my phone, all my music magically show up under the correct Album, Artist, Genre, and even Playlists too! I need to do NOTHING other than just copying the files from my computer to my phone. I can copy just what I want too (for example, only files from a given playlist. Show me how to do that using a file manager ). There are apps that let you do that and they are far better and significantly faster than using Windows Explorer/ Mac Finder or any File Manager. It doesn't matter which music app I use, the songs I want always show up in the right place. The reason for this magic is METADATA.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

It's a flawed system that can bite you in multiple ways especially cross platform.
20k songs and how many are high resolution?
You got a huge mess there.
My database is compatible with multiple OS's and players, plug and play. That's why it's organized old school. All my playlists are independent of the database and use their existing file structure to work.

Worse having 20k files in one folder is a folly of epic proportions if you get one scripted malware file in it. With no sub folders to act as barriers it will decimate all or most of those 20k of files.
Folders aren't just for organization...
20K worth of large files with one rogue buried somewhere within them with no detectable malware signature is a nightmare waiting to happen. Bad data stewardship.

TheMystic said:

I have been using these files and my system (of managing files) for well over 10 years, and there has never been any corruption or anything that would make me reconsider the way I manage them. Most importantly, I don't have to depend on any app to have access to my music of choice at any given moment. The metadata are INDEPENDENT of apps and platforms (Android, iOS, Windows, macOS or Linux). Every good music app on every platform can filter the music the way I want. The exact same concept applies to photos and videos too.

One has to acknowledge that technology is improving, and there are better tools as well as smarter, more efficient ways of getting things done. Windows Explorer/ Mac Finder are best left to handle non-media files alone. For media, use Media Management Apps.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

Once you lose a whole database or are force to try to repair one by hand you might be more conservative in your approach.

Frankly the mess you created, in my opinion, defies logic and will end up puking on you. You should have organized it using a classic folder structure and prioritized using high resolution audio files.
.wav files should never be converted to other formats as you risk losing HDCD subtext if present. Any music files that are below .wav in resolution will sound like crap in open air stereo listening due having little or no sound stage.
That's enough to keep you quiet for a while or at least it SHOULD be.

blackhawk said:

That tiny SD card is far less likely to lose data then your SOC.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

Cloud storage is not SOC.

blackhawk said:

It's a flawed system that can bite you in multiple ways especially cross platform.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

It is a perfectly fine system that has never failed, and will never fail either. It is just that you still haven't understood how it works. Something isn't flawed just because you don't understand it.

blackhawk said:

20k songs and how many are high resolution?

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

Irrelevant.

blackhawk said:

You got a huge mess there.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

Same as before, you haven't understood the system.

blackhawk said:

My database is compatible with multiple OS's and players, plug and play. That's why it's organized old school. All my playlists are independent of the database and use their existing file structure to work.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

What database? You have a lot of work to do everytime you switch platforms. Show me how your poweramp database will work on an iPhone. Or how you can quickly send a playlist of files to a friend with your system of organization, unless playlist for you is just a sub-folder of files .

I have no database, only files with all the required metadata. This is far superior to any file organization you can ever think of.

blackhawk said:

Worse having 20k files in one folder is a folly of epic proportions if you get one scripted malware file in it. With no sub folders to act as barriers it will decimate all or most of those 20k of files.
Folders aren't just for organization...
20K worth of large files with one rogue buried somewhere within them with no detectable malware signature is a nightmare waiting to happen. Bad data stewardship.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

You really think a folder structure acts as a barrier to malware? Seriously? You have a very flawed understanding of tech.

blackhawk said:

Frankly the mess you created, in my opinion, defies logic and will end up puking on you.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

I don't intend to be rude, but you have very outdated knowledge and don't quite understand technology as well as you think you do.

blackhawk said:

you should have organized it using a classic folder structure and prioritized using high resolution audio files.
.wav files should never be converted to other formats as you risk losing HDCD subtext if present. Any music files that are below .wav in resolution will sound like crap in open air stereo listening due having little or no sound stage.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

Again, totally irrelevant.

blackhawk said:

That's enough to keep you quiet for a while or at least it SHOULD be.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

Yeah, I rather stay quiet as you are unwilling to learn.

This should be a simply answer.. If your worried about data being lost, stolen. Then upload to your computer, then put on a usb stick and store it away. Rinse/Repeat Simple.

doubledragon5 said:

This should be a simply answer.. If your worried about data being lost, stolen. Then upload to your computer, then put on a usb stick and store it away. Rinse/Repeat Simple.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

You need more redundancy than that. At least two copies that are physically and electronically isolated from other and the PC. The PC should at least have a 2nd hdd ie a data drive as well but even this alone isn't enough. The same near lightning strike could wipe both devices in a fraction of a second.

Flash memory needs protection from EMPs and temperature extremes. Hdds need that as well plus protection from all magnetic sources. Never attempt to spin up a cold (>60F) hdd.
Hdds are considered more reliable especially enterprise drives; the platters can still have the data recovered in the event of a motor or interface failure. If a flash drive fails it's game over.

blackhawk said:

You need more redundancy than that. At least two copies that are physically and electronically isolated from other and the PC. The PC should at least have a 2nd hdd ie a data drive as well but even this alone isn't enough. The same near lightning strike could wipe both devices in a fraction of a second.

Flash memory needs protection from EMPs and temperature extremes. Hdds need that as well plus protection from all magnetic sources. Never attempt to spin up a cold (>60F) hdd.
Hdds are considered more reliable especially enterprise drives; the platters can still have the data recovered in the event of a motor or interface failure. If a flash drive fails it's game over.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

I have 4 hard drives nothing of importance is saved on either.. I prefer to put on flash drives.. They are passwd protected and simple aluminum foil will protect from emps.

doubledragon5 said:

I have 4 hard drives nothing of importance is saved on either.. I prefer to put on flash drives.. They are passwd protected and simple aluminum foil will protect from emps.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

*groan*
Never encrypt backup drives. YOU are the one most likely to be locked out. Don't do it... if for any reason the encryption key is damaged the data is lost. SEU's are real as are memory cell failures on flash memories. hdds also have better memory retention than flash.

Simply covering flash drives or hdds with foil isn't enough; it must be earth grounded ie Faraday cage. Otherwise a EMP ie a near lightning strike can capacitively or inductively couple with the drive and destroy it.
High energy potentials act in seemingly bizarre ways. Even "grounded" metal objects can be seen shooting arcs to other grounded objects.
I've been in a near lightning strike and the energy it can release and it's behavior is amazing.
Because of this and fire it's best to store backups far apart from each other.

blackhawk said:

SEU's are real as are memory cell failures on flash memories. hdds also have better memory retention than flash.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

Optical discs (CD, DVD, Blu-ray) are immune to EMP and also to water-resistant and unaffected by SEU (single event upsets), since they are not electromagnetic storage. However, they are somewhat limited in storage capacity.

DVD is large enough for documents and photos, but for videos, Blu-ray is more suitable.

There is also Sony Archival Disc, but that is proprietary (vendor locked-in) and expensive.

Writing tools on Linux: k3b, UDF tools by Pali Rohar.
Writing tools on Windows: ImgBurn, CDBurnerXP (but works long after Windows XP), Nero, InfraRecorder.

Windows also has built-in UDF (Universal Disk Filesystem) writing support to optical discs.

blackhawk said:

Never encrypt backup drives. YOU are the one most likely to be locked out. Don't do it... if for any reason the encryption key is damaged the data is lost.

Click to expand...

Click to collapse

You can say that again.

I had this experience with encrypted 7z archives created years ago. The only person I ended up locking out was myself because I could not remember the password.