Matchlock project

[Fuddislav]

I'm working on a BP matchlock of Tanegashima style and wondering what I should be using for a barrel. Any recommendations on steel or dimensions - or where I might buy a commercial one?

[Stew]

modern flintlock barrel should work as a start

[Fuddislav]

Who sells just the barrel?

[Stew]

Green Mountain does, you'd likely have to order in. I'd look for used flintlock and cop the barrel

[Barlow Knife]

I'm working on a BP matchlock of Tanegashima style and wondering what I should be using for a barrel. Any recommendations on steel or dimensions - or where I might buy a commercial one?

I don't know where you might find a Japanese style matchlock barrel.

However, the number one go-to place for black powder barrels, locks, stock blanks, action parts, etc. is "Track Of The Wolf".
They offer octagon to round smoothbore barrels for primitive flintlocks along with the breech plugs, stocks, and everything else.

I believe that the last military matchlocks used in England used this type of barrel before they transitioned to flintlocks.
I honestly think that you would be far better off building one of the later styles of English matchlocks than a Japanese ones.
There is just more information and resources available.

As it is, you will have to make your own lock and pan, which is enough of a project, and the English style locks are fairly simple.

There are a couple of places that make the English matchlocks for sale. One also sells a lot of imported muskets without a touch hole.

http://www.veteranarms.com/ReproductionMuzzleloadersandFlintlocks/Matchlock-Pics.html

[kennymo]

There's a place on the East coast that specializes in replica historical arms as well, but damned if I can recall the name right now. Similar fare to veteran arms, but I believe most of them had the touch holes drilled. I was contemplating a brass flintlock blunderbuss from them at one point....

[Fuddislav]

In exploring my options I was doing a little research into steels and a heard a few mentioned:
12L14
41xx

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=21944.0

It's probably more wise to buy something purpose made, but would a sufficiently strong piece of alloy tube be enough?

[Fuddislav]

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/15032lrh-50-cal-muzzle-loading-blank-barrel-32-x-1/
Something like this would probably eliminate most of the guesswork and look prettier overall...

[Waterloomike]

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?board=2.0

[Justice]

There are a couple of places that sell repro Tanegashima style(Portuguese and used until the end of the 19th Century when they went to mag fed bolt actions) matchlocks too. Dixie Gunworks is one. No exports from Dixie though. Despite BP firearms not being considered to be firearms by the U.S. government.
"...strong piece of alloy tube be enough..." No.
Green Mountain's Canadian distributor is Jo-Brook Firearms. 909 24th St, Brandon, MB. 204-727-3552
Give 'em a call and talk about it.
You might want to talk to this guy too. https://shop.japanese-armor.com/Tanegashima-Teppo-TNSR.htm

[weasel]

Dixie's Japanese repro has been out of production for several years. Might find a used one. At the end, they sold off kits.
A plain octagon barrel would work. Will this be a rifle or a smoothbore? Japanese originals were smooth.
True seamless steel tubing has been successfully used for a lot of smoothbore ml barrels. Catch is, a lot of "seamless" tubing is finished so that it looks as if it wasn't made with a welded seam. Smooth finished inside and out, but there is a robotically welded full length seam. There is actual drawn seamless tube available.
You mentioned 12L14. Leaded screw machine steel. Machines beautifully. A lot of ml barrels have been made from it. It has a tendency to be brittle.
1137 is outstanding for ml rifled and smooth barrels.
4140 has been used, but might be overkill. Popular for smokeless centerfire barrels.

[Fuddislav]

Plain smooth octagon is what I have in mind.

[Fuddislav]

Definitely going to purchase a commercial barrel, though I'm not certain how best to add the touch hole block pictured in the reference photographs I've been sourcing. Are commercial barrels soft tempered and safe to weld on or do I risk altering their strength?

https://imgur.com/lKBzIph

Other photos:
https://imgur.com/a/BVf0lYY

[weasel]

Easiest way to attach the flashpan is to soft solder it in place.

[grc1]

There are several routs you can go depending on your bugget.
You can buy a new barrel or get a used barrel. Now comes the Big warning. Do not use CVA barrels. The reason is that they come from Spain and Spain has NO restrictions on barrel steel/quality. I have seen more than my fair share of split CVA barrels and blown out nipples and bolsters so do your self a favor and if you see the word Spain, run.

Most barrels are made of 4140 steel. Yes you can certainly weld it however I strongly suggest using only mig or tig welding. Stick welding has the nasty habit of allowing rust to form around the welds and most importantly on the inside of the barrel making it just a bit harder to clean and in many cases if you leave the rifle dirty, this is the first place your nasty corosion will start.
Hope this is helpfull.

[Fuddislav]

I've heard bad things about CVA, yeah.

Thinking about something like this if they ship to Canada, failing that Mark of the Wolf for sure ships. https://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssupply.com/mbs3cart/agora.cgi?cart_id=9347741.47711&p_id=BL541536S&xm=on

[weasel]

Just out of curiosity, I did a google for welding 4140 steel. Interesting. Certainly do-able, but hardly worth the bother for attaching a flashpan.
4130 is commonly used for centerfire rifle barrels. There are a few muzzleloading barrel makers who use 4140. Primarily for percussion rifles firing elongated bullets, where extra strength is desired. You may have trouble finding a plain octagon smoothbore blank.
1137 is a preferred steel. Green Mountain uses it.
A number of ml barrel makers use 12L14. There are pros and cons. Machines beautifully. Low elasticity; if it fails, it can break into pieces, not just bulge or split.

[Fuddislav]

I think brazing might be just the ticket, but I will check with the suppliers for their thoughts.

[weasel]

I have not had the opportunity of closely examining a Japanese matchlock. Don't know how the flashpans were attached to the barrels. I've never seen construction drawings of one.
European made matchlocks often had the pan set in a longitudinal dovetail cut into the side flat of the barrel.

[Fuddislav]

It looks like this one that I'm using as reference was forged as one piece, but a mechanical join would probably work.

https://i.imgur.com/lKBzIph.jpg

[Fuddislav]

I do not recommend welding on any barrel.

Silverbraze would work but you still have to get the barrel glowing so it will scale the bore. I would either soft solder it or figure out a way to dovetail it or screw it in place.

Looks like I'll be attaching it mechanically.

[Stew]

happened across this
"Some matchlocks had the pans integral to the lock, but most seem to have a separate one. I only own 1 matchlock - a tanegashima (Japanese matchlock), which has a serparate pan that is attached to it's own plate, which then is attached to the barrel with 2 screws. I think I've also seen some that were soldered on the barrel directly."

http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/252312/

[Fuddislav]

To avoid being all talk, here's some progress images on the mechanism:
https://i.imgur.com/nf8jIjk.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/OZNaK2H.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wQC9PX9.jpg

All the main lock components have been roughed out. The springs need to be properly tempered, and the serpentine needs to be shaped and bent but it already triggers when assembled.

[Fuddislav]

This is more of what I've seen in photos. I'll probably have to dovetail the pan into the existing barrel to avoid welding.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/17/7b/81/177b81539988d77e00d3b07a8b2aea68.jpg

[P-B.]

Fuddislav,

Do I know you?? BD by any chance? :-)

I just made my barrel and everything else on the last one, But it is a European style , Not Japanese.
My pan is soft soldered to the barrel. Originals were dovetailed, but as I have far too much on already, I cut a corner!
Soft solder will hold a pan on forever. English shotguns still have the barrels soldered together with soft solder, and get very hard use at times.

My build id over on American Longrifles.
Since then I have finished the barrel like the original from C.1525, with chevrons and a fluted muzzle.

Original thread;

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=46539.0

Chevrons and fluting;

http://americanlongrifles.org/forum/index.php?topic=50712.0

Since then I got it browned and buffed it back to look a bit used.
No pics yet of finished (altogether) little arquebus...

Richard.