If you have trouble calming down or maybe difficulty sleeping at night, niacin may be worth investigating and trialing. Andrew W. Saul addresses this B vitamin on That Vitamin Summit which starts later this week and runs May 18 – 24 2017. (Note that it starts on a Thursday and not the usual Monday)
He covers the four types of niacin:
Niacin or plain old niacin, niacinamide, a no flush form that works just right for all mental and emotional issues but does not work for cholesterol issues. Inositol hexanicotinate which works well for everything but you have to use more it costs a little more money and it doesn’t work as well and then sustained release niacin which is prescription, expensive and has the most side effects.
Andrew discusses how to experiment and what you can expect in the way of flushing:
First of all you personally can experiment by trying some niacin and seeing how you feel. An example of this would be a healthy person who has a little trouble calming down maybe difficulty sleeping at night. Maybe they’re a little more anxious than they think they should be and perhaps taking some niacin would be a good thing to try. You could open up with 500 milligrams of niacin, breakfast lunch and dinner.
Now you’re probably going to flush and by the way if you have it with a meal you don’t flush as much. You don’t flush as quickly as you do if you take it on an empty stomach but you are still going to flush. The weird thing is you’re not going to flush for a couple of hours because you’re going to have the niacin with all that food and if you take the niacin in the middle of the meal or at the end of the meal there could be quite a delay before you have your flush.
Andrew does share what he calls “my wimpy way of taking niacin” where you slowly but surely increase from a low dose to avoid the flush.
He laughs about how Dr. Abram Hoffer was so fond of using niacin that he would tell people look just tough it out: “Tolerate the flush, it’s going to take a couple of weeks.”
And he also shares that Dr. Hoffer was his mentor and how Dr. Hoffer saw dramatic results with schizophrenia patients:
Now Dr. Abram Hoffer the world’s expert on niacin who started studying niacin in the early 1950’s and he was my personal mentor many decades later. Dr. Hoffer was a psychiatrist, a PhD as well as an MD and he treated over five thousand patients with niacin in his medical career.
The amount of niacin that you need for schizophrenia tends to be very high. Dr. Hoffer’s standard prescription was three thousand milligrams a day, divided into three doses of one thousand milligrams each.
It’s a fascinating interview and the most detailed one I’ve yet to hear on the topic of niacin. It’s not to be missed!
He goes on to cover the following
- niacin for the treatment of alcoholic depression
- other B vitamins like thiamine, vitamin B12, vitamin B6 and folate
- plus multivitamins and whole food vitamins
I hope you can join us on That Vitamin Summit brought to you by makers of That Vitamin Movie which has been watched online by over one million people since its release in January 2016.
There are over 80 years of documented evidence that show how humble vitamins, minerals and other nutrients (such as amino acids – the topic of my interview) can prevent, and even cure major diseases like diabetes, arthritis heart disease and anxiety and depression. That Vitamin Summit 2 has assembled over 20 top experts to show YOU how to use these nutrients to increase your health and well-being almost immediately.
Here is the registration link for the summit which starts later this week on Thursday May 18 (note the Thursday start date)
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Niacin was the ONLY thing that cured my insomnia of 9 months. I tried everything, and had just signed myself up for a sleep clinic. I saw Dr Hoffer’s youtube video, bought some niacin immediately, and with it slept for the first time that night. A miracle. It has helped some of my ptsd and anxiety. I tried the flush Niacin first to see what my system could handle and then I went to the non flush Niacin and increased my dosage. Now I take it only every now and again.
Sabine
Thanks for sharing your wonderful results with insomnia, PTSD and anxiety. Would you mind sharing how much worked for you – of both niacin and I assume you mean niacinamide when you say non-flush?
Hi Trudy, Once I knew that it seemed “safe” for my body, I was taking 3000 milligrams of the niacin. I am not sure which variety, just bought the bottle labeled non-flush. At that time I didn’t know the differences. I believe the niacin also helped me get off of anti-depressants. The doctor and pharmacist was no help. I had tried for years, and now, finally, I am clear and have been for 2 years. Hallelujah! Much gratitude for all the little and big corners of help.
I neglected to mention how much I have appreciated your website and information. Thank you, Trudy, for what you do and sharing your knowledge and ever investigating and being curious.
Sabine
How much of niacin did you take for sleep and to help get off antidepressants.
Thank you so much for sharing this!!!! I have been having difficulty sleeping and have ptsd!!!! And I always have bad reactions to meds so I’m going to try this! Ty so much
Hi, I took one standard tablet of niacin 250 mg and had an anaphylactic shock reaction – I passed out in the middle of a supermarket and had to be shipped to the ER. Just sayin…
Liz
Liz
Thank you for sharing. I’m sorry to hear this and would really like to hear more. I take effects like this very seriously. Did this happen the first time you took it and did you first experience a flushing reaction? Were the doctors able to conclude your reaction was due to the niacin? And it was niacin and not niacinamide or niacin together with something else? I ask because 250mg of niacin is an unusually high dose and many products state “Niacin” on the front and yet when you read the label it states niacinamide or inositol hexanicotinate or may even be sustained release niacin.
I’m going to see if Andrew can let us know if he has heard of a reaction like this either here on the blog or via the speaker replay page comments during the summit.
Hi Trudy,
While Andrew Saul may express the depth of knowledge necessary teaching people how to take certain B vitamins for mood, behavior and mental health issues, your current blog suggesting people try Niacin or some of its analogs for anxiety maybe a bit early to try before an assessment.
In order to determine if this is correct for someone and to help with anxiety, it would be prudent to have ones global methylation status determined before taking Niacin. Whole blood Histamine via LabCorp or the SAMe:SAH Ratio (Doctors data) needs to be established first.
Niacin or niacinamide is very effective for Overmethylators, as it acts like a sponge to reduce excess methyl. If someone is an Undermethylator, Niacin or Niacinamide will worsen them reducing methyl further. The basis of this is derived by William J Walsh PhD.
It’s not even necessary to have your MTHFR examined to do this, as these tests are a direct expression of ones biochemistry which trumps knowing what SNP’s that may have on that gene.
Best,
Loren Marks D.C.,DACBN
Dr Marks
Thanks for your input on this topic. Andrew didn’t address overmethylation/histapenia/low histamine and undermethylation/histadelia/high histamine in this interview but I agree with you that those with low histamine definately do better with niacin/niacinamide – in fact it’s part of the low histamine protocol (as I’m sure you are aware). I don’t work with many individuals with high histamine so don’t have experience in this area.
In his interview Andrew suggests a trial and says to stop if it doesn’t help or if you feel worse and does mention that there are no toxicity issues even with very high doses. But I’m going to see if I can get Andrew to address this low histamine/high histamine question either here on the blog or via the speaker replay page comments during the summit.
Sharing this blog for folks curious about overmethylation/histapenia/low histamine and undermethylation/histadelia/high histamine https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/methylation-and-anxiety-histadelia-and-histapenia/ I have learned from Carl Pfeiffer and Joan Matthews Larson and find the terms histapenia/low histamine and histadelia/high histamine easier to remember.
Dr Marks
I forgot to ask …I wonder if you would share more on SAMe:SAH Ratio (Doctors data)?
Also, I’m familiar with the whole blood histamine test but wasn’t aware that Labcorp offers this – do you have to ask for special processing? We used to use them when I worked at Recovery Systems with Julia Ross but they would so often not test whole blood histamine.
Hi Trudy,
LabCorp is the only lab I know of that performs Whole Blood Histamine (WBH) properly. When I began testing these values, I sent patients for this test and found that every other lab sent this test out to ARUP labs for processing.
The numbers just didn’t make sense. I called the labs and they couldn’t explain the difference in reference ranges.
I even did a mathematical adjustment with the units of measure and it still didn’t work. I then called ARUP Lab directly a few times and spoke to the head of the department and in the end they could not answer my question.
Suffice to say-LabCorp is your only option. Interpretation: With this test, a low WBH reflects overmethylation and a high WBH an undermethylator based upon Walsh’s range of 40-70 reflecting normal methylation. So the Value is inverse to the process.
Doctors Data Offer the SAMe:SAH ratio. In this test a low level/ratio reflects undermethylation, and a high Level/ratio overmethylation, so keep these differences in mind for proper interpretation.
The ordering code for WBH in LabCorp is #081315, if you don’t use this # the lab tech’s will screw it up and you will end up with the wrong test being performed. Trust me, as you can see I went crazy till I got this straight.
Hope this helps,
Dr. Marks
Hi Dr Marks
Thanks for the Labcorp whole blood histamine info. Just so you know HDRI (http://europeanlaboratory.nl/) also offers this test as does DHA labs (https://www.pyroluriatesting.com).
Thanks for the Doctors Data SAMe:SAH ratio info – I’ll do some reading on this (I found this on DD site https://www.doctorsdata.com/resources/uploads/sample_reports/78338%20DDI%20PlasmaMethylationEnzyme%20WP_R4.pdf)
I have the MTHFR gene mutation how do you suggest a person like myself get B vitamins into their body I have tried several different doses of folate and methylated vitamins and after a couple of weeks I feel like I’m going crazy
Shelly
Start by getting a whole blood histamine level performed by your doctor -it has to be done by Labcorp.
Having a MTHFR mutation doesn’t answer whether you are expressing the mutation only that u have it.
Which variant do you have ? C677t or A 1298c one copy or two? What is your homocysteine level? B12 leve?
L
I have one copy of each I have had all those tests done my homocysteine to begin with was 29 it is now down to 9.5 although it may be rising again because I’ve not been able to take B vitamins anytime I eat leafy greens that have lots of B vitamins face tingles my problems started with a prescription of a fluoroquinolone antibiotic my whole system has been Haywire since then central nervous system body everything my functional medicine doctor seems like he started to not have time for me anymore when I wasn’t responding well to things so I quit seeing him I’m in the bed most of the time my whole life has been stolen from me and there’s no one out there to help me get it back
Shelly
As Dr. Marks says having the MTHFR defect doesn’t mean it’s causing a problem. Also too much methylfolate can be an issue for come people – Dr Ben Lynch covered this on one of the Anxiety Summits https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/anxiety-summit-methylfolate-anxiety/
I’ll listen to that Summit Trudy and I got a lot of good information from and it just seems like nothing I try helps and my Jean is expressing itself as I replied to dr. Mark my all of my problems started with a prescription of fluoroquinolone antibiotics
Shelly
My apologies but I had missed the fact that your symptoms started with a prescription of fluoroquinolone antibiotics. These antibiotics are prescribed far too frequently and should only be prescribed as an absolute last resort and preferably not at all. They can actually cause psychiatric problems via these mechanisms: GABA inhibition, gut destruction, mitochondrial destruction, oxidative stress and magnesium depletion. More information here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/antibiotic-anxiety-fluoroquinolone/
I did listen to your last anxiety Summit loved it
Shelly
I am Sorry to hear you are having such difficulty.
I am offering to help you but without providing me with the values that I asked you for , I cannot assist.
Dr. Marks
I will look up my test results and provide you with those here in a couple of days
I have reapititive thoughts , low moods and lack of sleep. I have started taking 100mg of. Niacineamide three times daily and increasing the dose by 100mg everyday. I am yet to feel the effects. I am also taking some amino acids, samE and vitamins.
I need some help to point me in the right direction.
All good intentions but without attaining the correct labs to diagnose your Methylation status, Zinc and copper levels etc. you are spinning your wheels.
You need a doctor throughly trained in this type of Functional Medicine.
You can look up the Walsh Institute in Chicago and find a referral. Or you may inquire with my staff at Lmarks1020@aol.com.
Akeem
I’m sorry to hear this. When I hear repetitive thoughts, low moods and lack of sleep I think low serotonin may be a factor and have my clients do a trial of tryptophan initially while we are figuring everything else out (like the testing Dr Marks mentions – one of many ways to help figure out what the underlying factors may be). I also like to do one thing at a time so we know what is helping and what isn’t. We also address diet – real food, blood sugar control, no gluten, no caffeine and gut health (dysbiosis, SIBO, candida, parasites could all be factors).
I live in London
Try the Walsh institute web site
Doctors from around the world have been trained by him in his method.
I am on tryptophan and a host of other vitamin s and minerals.
Also addressing stress with cortisol manager from integrated therapeutic. I eat real foods and take yoghurt to try and work on my gut.
I think there should s something I am missing.
Please help
Akeem
I do prefer Seriphos for high cortisol and write about this here https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/seriphos-original-formula-anxiety-insomnia-cortisol/
I’m afraid I can only provide general information via the blog. For in-depth help it’s best to do a consult with a practitioner who can offer testing and guidance to find the possible root causes which can be varied https://www.everywomanover29.com/blog/60-nutritional-biochemical-causes-of-anxiety/
Hi Trudy.
London is not so aware about functional medicine and the few available ones are so expensive.
I am on a lot of supplements as if now.
Seriphos old version. 3 at night
Cortisol manager by integrative therapeutics. 1 at night
L tryptophan by Doctors best 4000mg per day
Homocysteine factors pure encapsulation.
Niasafe 4 capsules per day
Vitamin D plus K
Spectramin Chelate
DHA
Borage oil jarrow s formula
Optimised tryptophan plus. Life extension.
Testo gain Douglas lab
Vitamin c
P5p by viital nutrient s
Etc
I really need urgent help.
Akeem I gather you are taking Niasafe for cardiovascular reasons, but unless you are an overmethylator and know this from proper laboratory work you may be worsening your mental Heath.
I would discontinue this for the next 10 days and see how you feel.
Dr. Marks
I reckon you mean discontinue the Niasafe or please list all I should discontinue. They were given to me by my Kinesiologist.
I don’t know how to simply progress with my health.
He did not carry out any laboratory test other than muscle testing.
Please kindly help and advice
Optimized tryptophan plus has 66mg of niacinamide per 3 caps Acts as a Methyl sponge like Niacin. Do not take at this point, as well as Niacin. The rest appears to be reasonable.
Omitting these alone may have a
Profound effect Add either Aswaganda or Rhodiola 2 tabs 2x A day. Give it 10 days to 2 weeks. Let’s see what can be accomplished.
Dr. Marks
Thanks a lot.
I may as well stop the SAME. i have taken 2 packets of 1200mg per day for 3 weeks.
I have also just ordered Niacin flush type. i will suspend that.
I also ordered lithium orotate to help with reapititive thoughts. shall I wait a bit before starting that.
i take Integrated Therapeautics Cortisol manager and i though it has Ashwagandha. do you have a good brand i could buy and dosage.
Thanks
Kindly do help with response to my concerns. Thanks
Akeem
As a rule I don’t give specific advice via the blog as it’s not safe or responsible to do so when I don’t have a complete health history. Dr. Marks has been kind enough to offer some advice and going forward I recommend reaching out directly to her and working with her one-on-one.
Dr. Marks
I appreciate your kind efforts to help Akeem but as a rule I don’t give specific advice via the blog as I don’t feel it’s safe or responsible to do so when I don’t have a complete health history. I’ve suggested that Akeem reaches out directly to you and works with you one-on-one. Thanks!
I understand. Can I possibly have her contacts and I ll be happy to work with her.
Thanks
Hi,
I experience frequent nose bleeding without any pathological reasons can i use niacin for my panic attacks?
Dinitrios
I am not an expert in nose-bleeds but would have a client who experiences them use GABA or tryptophan before niacin
Thanks Ms. Scott,
I appreciate your opinion.
Dimitrios
Quick summary of my background. Severe anxiety disorder. Chronic pain from spine disease is debilitating. I’m on a high dose of zannax. XR 2mg x a day. .05 x 3 a day. I’ve been using kratom and phenibut too. I’m sick of taking all this crap. I believe niacin is truly the key to taper off these meds/supplements. 2 questions. I don’t enjoy the flush but seems to work. 300mg x 4 a day. Can I use non flush niacin? Can you make a suggestion for a taper on benzos? The kratom and phenibut I’m currently backing down about 20% a week
I am a healthy 67 year old taking no prescriptions and thought to try niacin for sleep aid.
I began flushing 5 minutes after taking a 100 mg tablet, my entire body felt like it was sun burned, I was nauseaus, and after 30 minutes, began chills like a bad sun burn gives one. My entire body turned red/pink and the worst was my legs. This lasted for TWO hours!!!!
I will never make it to a second tablet.
My husband witnessed this awful reaction and he had just taken one earlier and we were amazed at my reaction.
I use NO FLUSH NIACIN. This problem is totally avoidable. The flush feeling should not last more than 10 minutes. Your likely hyper sensitive. The NO FLUSH has cut my Rx intake in half in just a couple months.
I have panic attacks anxiety cold all the time ,sweats can’t sleep, pins and needles , feels like I’m dying all the time ,blurry vision , numbness ,conspated ,depersonalizeation, always thinking about the next attack ,feels like I’m going crazy , bad thoughts ext
Do u think that nician will work for me seen to doctors and said I had anxiety but would u think I have low or high blood level of the above issue … hade lots of blood work and said it is all good
I need some support
One thing that is constantly over looked with people with anxiety is hormones. A full panel of testing is required. Estrogen, testosterone, free testosterone, SBHG and adrenal glands. Too often your given psych meds for a physical issue. That said I mega dose non flush niacin 3 grams 2-3 times a day. I buy it in bulk. So much cheaper. I make my own capsules too. I also add niacin in a with L-theane in a protein based fruit smoothie.
What brand niacin? And is it niacinamide? No flush ? Thanks
Hi Mike
May I ask what brand of nuacin do you take and if you’re satisfied with it? With a long list of options it’s hard to decide.
Thank you!
Hi,
I started using Regular Niacin 500mg 4x a day a while back and noticed a dramatic improvement in my anxiety levels. After a few days on Niacin I started noticing my skin and eyes were getting yellowish, and it became more prominent in the following days so much that i stopped taking it. Any idea why this could happen?
hello Trudy. I know that vitamin B3 helps us a lot with anxiety. But there is a lot of confusion about which type. Niaciamide or niacin? extended or normal duration? Could you help me with these questions, please? Your website is wonderful. helped me a lot to improve my health …
thankful,
Sandro
I tend to use niacinamide with clients
Questions
1. Can you take prolonged release no flush niacin (for sleep)?
2. Can you take melatonin with no flush niacin (for sleep?
3. Can I just try tryptophan instead of no flush niacin, add a little no flush niacin to the tryptophan (for sleep).
I can get to sleep fairly easily (I have a diagnosed circadian rhythm disorder) and after my first middle of night waking it takes me 3-5 hours to get back to sleep, I’m needing a big nudge to get back to sleep. My sleep is Advanced Sleep Phase so I go to sleep naturally ar7-8 pm, awake 10-11 unable to get back to sleep till 3-4 am.
Thank you.
Romaine
I start with serotonin support, then consider melatonin and may add niacin later. With waking in the night I also look at high cortisol and parasites, low blood sugar and SIBO.