Why do people underestimate Afghanistan's affinity to West Asia?

[Myanthropologies]

A lot of people on this forum underestimate Afghanistan's phenotypical and cultural overlap with West Asia. Due to some pseudo geographical terms that were made up by some random white man, people expect Afghans to be like Sri Lankans or something. In reality, any afghan would tell you that they feel their identity is something between Central Asian and West Asian, and hardly see any connection to South Asia. There are certainly some South Asian influences, like watching Bollywood (but then again, so do many other ethnic groups outside of South asia), eating certain foods like dal, paratha, panir cheese, etc, (but again, some west asian ethnic groups eat those foods, too). The things Afghanistan culturally shares with South Asia are things that some West Asian countries sometimes share with South Asians culturally too. The only thing that is exclusively shared between Afghanistan and South Asia is the period in which it was Buddhist.

Afghanistan (or other names it went by in the past) is not only very dominantly West Asian influenced, but our ancestors themselves influenced West Asia culturally. From the Proto-Iranics to the Scythians and Bactrians, they all started Iranism, and it wouldn't exist without our ancestors (who are also the ancestors of other Iranian groups as well, I will admit that). Zoroastrianism, an iconic Iranic religion that was once dominant in West Asia, was founded in the Afghanistan and Tajikstan region.

Iran is not the ONLY West Asian country that is culturally similar to Afghanistan. Armenians, Turks, Azeris, Kurds, and even Georgians to some extent share cultural elements with Afghans. The aforementioned were part of various Iranian empires together, and people did move around and exchange culture. There was also once an important and prominent community of Armenians in Afghanistan. My dad tells me about them all the time and talks about how similar Armenian kebab and rice is to Afghan kebab and rice.

In terms of taxonomy, people always compare these Westernerized West Asians who have high disposable incomes and get nose jobs, other Plastic surgery (not trying to hate, but it is true. Statistics show that a lot of Arab, Armenian, Kurdish, etc people in the West do put their faces under the knife), have access to things like sunscreen, and the luxury of not having to be outside all day, to poor tribal homeless afghans who don't have access to said things and are outside all day. I have seen documentaries with Germans who spent years in morocco doing fieldwork and turn almost as brown as the natives. Even that aside, Afghans are not "darker" and "more exotic" than most other West Asian groups. That is bs. Whenever I show pictures of myself or my family, they always assume my family is atypical when they really aren't at all. They look very typical for Afghans.

[Arsen_]

In 1737 Armenians built an Armenian church in Kabul. As I read it was on Balayi-Sar Street near the fortress gates of Djalalabad. But this church has not survived to our days. I would like to find some old picture of that church.

[Maintenance]

Im afghan tajik

[Gangrel]

Ignorance I guess. Afghans being in the Irano-Afghan spectrum should tell enough

[Myanthropologies]

Im afghan tajik

Only on Saturdays

[lameduck]

ignorance and orientalism many people think Afghanistan is a bridge between West asia/south asia and Central Asia when the reality is that Afghanistan is Pred West Asia and Central asia while modern day Pakistan is historical bridge.

[Purohit ji]

ignorance and orientalism many people thin Afghanistan is a bridge between West asia/south asia and Central Asia when the reality is that Afghanistan is Pred West Asia and Central asia while modern day Pakistan is historical bridge.

nhi bhai pakistan is west asia india is southeast asia

[Myanthropologies]

nhi bhai pakistan is west asia india is southeast asia

???

[Babak]

Do you guys know what "Taarof" is?

[Mingle]

???

I guess he felt like lameduck downplayed Pakistan's South Asianness and didn't like that so he made a sarcastic remark.

[Mingle]

Geography most likely. I myself was a bit surprised when I heard that people from Afghanistan had around 20% West Asian ancestry. South Asians also have a decent chunk of that ancestry (though less than Afghanistan). Southeast Europeans and other Eastern Euros are closer to the Caucasus but don't have nearly as much of that ancestry.

[JohnSmith]

A lot of people on this forum underestimate Afghanistan's phenotypical and cultural overlap with West Asia. Due to some pseudo geographical terms that were made up by some random white man, people expect Afghans to be like Sri Lankans or something. In reality, any afghan would tell you that they feel their identity is something between Central Asian and West Asian, and hardly see any connection to South Asia. There are certainly some South Asian influences, like watching Bollywood (but then again, so do many other ethnic groups outside of South asia), eating certain foods like dal, paratha, panir cheese, etc, (but again, some west asian ethnic groups eat those foods, too). The things Afghanistan culturally shares with South Asia are things that some West Asian countries sometimes share with South Asians culturally too. The only thing that is exclusively shared between Afghanistan and South Asia is the period in which it was Buddhist.

Afghanistan (or other names it went by in the past) is not only very dominantly West Asian influenced, but our ancestors themselves influenced West Asia culturally. From the Proto-Iranics to the Scythians and Bactrians, they all started Iranism, and it wouldn't exist without our ancestors (who are also the ancestors of other Iranian groups as well, I will admit that). Zoroastrianism, an iconic Iranic religion that was once dominant in West Asia, was founded in the Afghanistan and Tajikstan region.

Iran is not the ONLY West Asian country that is culturally similar to Afghanistan. Armenians, Turks, Azeris, Kurds, and even Georgians to some extent share cultural elements with Afghans. The aforementioned were part of various Iranian empires together, and people did move around and exchange culture. There was also once an important and prominent community of Armenians in Afghanistan. My dad tells me about them all the time and talks about how similar Armenian kebab and rice is to Afghan kebab and rice.

In terms of taxonomy, people always compare these Westernerized West Asians who have high disposable incomes and get nose jobs, other Plastic surgery (not trying to hate, but it is true. Statistics show that a lot of Arab, Armenian, Kurdish, etc people in the West do put their faces under the knife), have access to things like sunscreen, and the luxury of not having to be outside all day, to poor tribal homeless afghans who don't have access to said things and are outside all day. I have seen documentaries with Germans who spent years in morocco doing fieldwork and turn almost as brown as the natives. Even that aside, Afghans are not "darker" and "more exotic" than most other West Asian groups. That is bs. Whenever I show pictures of myself or my family, they always assume my family is atypical when they really aren't at all. They look very typical for Afghans.


I think you are correct. One thing about Afghanistan is it seem very tribal there and the literacy rate is quite low. I spoke to a American contractor that was based there and he said it was very underdeveloped compared to Iraq. I assume the bigger cities are more educated and literate.

[Hadouken]

afghanistan is definitely more west asian than many countries like yemen , saudi arabia , qatar etc. which are supposed to be west asia

[Myanthropologies]

afghanistan is definitely more west asian than many countries like yemen , saudi arabia , qatar etc. which are supposed to be west asia

Afghanistan is more real West Asian than the Levant, too. Levantines are mostly Eastern Mediterranean + Southwest Asian + some West Asian proper + Red Sea + some SSA (Palestinians and Jordanians). Whereas, Afghans are mostly proper West Asian + Northern European + some mediterranean + some South Asian.

[Hadouken]

Afghanistan is more real West Asian than the Levant, too. Levantines are mostly Eastern Mediterranean + Southwest Asian + some West Asian proper. Whereas Afghans are mostly proper West Asian + Northern European + some mediterranean + some South Asian.

Levantines cluster a lot closer with west asians . west asians have also high east med . it is just that levantines have less caucasus and more med and as you say more southwest asian but that is less in the north . the north levantines are definitely west asians

[JohnSmith]

Afghanistan is more real West Asian than the Levant, too. Levantines are mostly Eastern Mediterranean + Southwest Asian + some West Asian proper + Red Sea + some SSA (Palestinians and Jordanians). Whereas, Afghans are mostly proper West Asian + Northern European + some mediterranean + some South Asian.

How is it more West Asian than the Levant? What makes a place West Asian? Afghanistan is also not very close to Europe it is closest I suppose to Eastern Europe but that is quite a distance. It is closer to Iran and Pakistan as it's neighbors.

[Myanthropologies]

Levantines cluster a lot closer with west asians . west asians have also high east med . it is just that levantines have less caucasus and more med and as you say more southwest asian but that is less in the north . the north levantines are definitely west asians

Yes and no. Levantines are only closer to West Asians with Eastern Mediterranean, Red Sea, etc mixture. When it comes to groups like Georgians, Chechens, Ossetians, Lezgins, Kumyks, etc, who are closer to pure West Asian, then Afghans are much closer.

[Hadouken]

Yes and no. Levantines are only closer to West Asians with Eastern Mediterranean, Red Sea, etc mixture. When it comes to groups like Georgians, Chechens, Ossetians, Lezgins, Kumyks, etc, who are closer to pure West Asian, then Afghans are much closer.

I will check that in a few minutes and tell you :)

[Myanthropologies]

How is it more West Asian than the Levant? What makes a place West Asian? Afghanistan is also not very close to Europe it is closest I suppose to Eastern Europe but that is quite a distance. It is closer to Iran and Pakistan as it's neighbors.

I mean it is more genetically West Asian than the levant is. Geography isn't everything. You live in America but you are you native American? Obviously not.

[StonyArabia]

afghanistan is definitely more west asian than many countries like yemen , saudi arabia , qatar etc. which are supposed to be west asia

Are you serious? They are West Asian, but Southwest Asian

[Myanthropologies]

I will check that in a few minutes and tell you :)

Well, I for one cluster far closer to North Caucasian West asians than Levantines do
http://i68.tinypic.com/5ck20w.png

[Hadouken]

Are you serious? They are West Asian, but Southwest Asian

yes southwest asian . I think OP refers to northwest asia thats why I said that

brb

[JohnSmith]

I mean it is more genetically West Asian than the levant is. Geography isn't everything. You live in America but you are you native American? Obviously not.

I was surprised to hear you say Afghans are more West Asian than the Levant and they are more Northern European than South Asian. Afghanistan is quite far from Northern Europe and I suppose West Asian is subjective. I would think it is most similar to Iran.

[oszkar07]

I think many Westerners possibly associate Afghanistan with Pakistan, possibly its a result of western media focusing on the Taliban and the interaction between some Pakistani tribes and Afghan Talibani's.
I have for a long time been aware of the Iranic aspect of Afghanistan but I too have had the impression the country as a whole is seemingly more tribal and perhaps more ethnically diverse than Iran.
In Sydney where I live there are a few places where their is some Afghan minorities but also many of them are the Asiatic looking Hazara's.


Is it correct that Afghans are mostly Sunni Muslim's whilst Iranian's are mostly Shia ?

[StonyArabia]

Well, I for one cluster far closer to North Caucasian West asians than Levantines do
http://i68.tinypic.com/5ck20w.png

The Arabian ancestry probably pulls them away

[Myanthropologies]

Are you serious? They are West Asian, but Southwest Asian

All are bogus terms invented by the white man at the end of the day.

[StonyArabia]

All are bogus terms invented by the white man at the end of the day.

I agree, I don't even recognize his borders in the Mideast

[Myanthropologies]

I was surprised to hear you say Afghans are more West Asian than the Levant and they are more Northern European than South Asian. Afghanistan is quite far from Northern Europe and I suppose West Asian is subjective. I would think it is most similar to Iran.

Well, South asian dna is really difficult to explain. It is heavily west asian/chg shifted. I am 50-55% CHG/West Asian, nearly 30% Northern and Eastern European DNA wise, and then like 10% Natufian, and 5% Onge. At least that's what I know with the information we have now.

Here is where I cluster on a PCA
http://i68.tinypic.com/5ck20w.png

[Mingle]

I think many Westerners possibly associate Afghanistan with Pakistan, possibly its a result of western media focusing on the Taliban and the interaction between some Pakistani tribes and Afghan Talibani's.
I have for a long time been aware of the Iranic aspect of Afghanistan but I too have had the impression the country as a whole is seemingly more tribal and perhaps more ethnically diverse than Iran.
In Sydney where I live there are a few places where their is some Afghan minorities but also many of them are the Asiatic looking Hazara's.


Is it correct that Afghans are mostly Sunni Muslim's whilst Iranian's are mostly Shia ?

Pakistan also has a decent chunk of West Asian blood, so being associated with Pakistan shouldn't completely dissociate it from West Asia. Pakistan is very different to Afghanistan overall, but the part of Pakistan that the media focuses on is Northwest Pakistan, which is far closer to Afghanistan than it is to the rest of Pakistan.

Yes, Afghanistan is mostly Sunni and Iran is mostly Shia.

[lameduck]

Another thing is Afghan diasporas are dominated by more mongoloid looking groups Hazara, Mong Tajiks etc while Pshtuns are under represented , resulting in less west asian image.

[JohnSmith]

Well, South asian dna is really difficult to explain. It is heavily west asian/chg shifted. I am 50-55% CHG/West Asian, nearly 30% Northern and Eastern European DNA wise, and then like 10% Natufian, and 5% Onge. At least that's what I know with the information we have now.

Here is where I cluster on a PCA



Genetics are interesting but all Humans are very close to each other. 98% like Chimps but look nothing like them.

[Mingle]

Well, South asian dna is really difficult to explain. It is heavily west asian/chg shifted. I am 50-55% CHG/West Asian, nearly 30% Northern and Eastern European DNA wise, and then like 10% Natufian, and 5% Onge. At least that's what I know with the information we have now.

Here is where I cluster on a PCA
http://i68.tinypic.com/5ck20w.png

It's dumb how such a broad category as "South Asian" doesn't get broken down by DNA companies. It really shouldn't be that hard. I mean they break down Western Europe into like 5 different groupings.

[Purohit ji]

Well, South asian dna is really difficult to explain. It is heavily west asian/chg shifted. I am 50-55% CHG/West Asian, nearly 30% Northern and Eastern European DNA wise, and then like 10% Natufian, and 5% Onge. At least that's what I know with the information we have now.

Here is where I cluster on a PCA
http://i68.tinypic.com/5ck20w.png

i remember you score 18% southindian on harrapa. many indians are at 30% range including my people. that makes you 60% indian

[Mingle]

Another thing is Afghan diasporas are dominated by more mongoloid looking groups Hazara, Mong Tajiks etc while Pshtuns are under represented , resulting in less west asian image.

I think that's just Australia.

[Mingle]

i remember you score 18% southindian on harrapa. many indians are at 30% range including my people. that makes you 60% indian

By Indian, you mean ANI+ASI?

[Purohit ji]

By Indian, you mean ANI+ASI?

yes north indians

[Mingle]

yes north indians

Isn't ANI basically just neolithic Iranian?

[Hadouken]

here a Lebanese and an Afghan gedmatch results . the oracle and the number next to the population are what is taken to make such maps :

Afghan Eurogenes K13 :

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 40.22
2 South_Asian 25.74
3 Baltic 10.76
4 East_Med 8.81
5 North_Atlantic 7.64
6 Siberian 2.92
7 Red_Sea 1.54
8 Amerindian 1.29
9 Northeast_African 1
10 West_Med 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Afghan_Pashtun 2.88
2 Kalash 11.42
3 Tadjik 11.89
4 Pathan 13.26
5 Makrani 13.99
6 Afghan_Tadjik 14.28
7 Balochi 14.88
8 Burusho 14.89
9 Brahui 15.93
10 Punjabi_Jat 17.67
11 Sindhi 19.4
12 Tabassaran 20.21
13 Turkmen 20.58
14 Lezgin 21.56
15 Chechen 21.8
16 Kumyk 22.13
17 Kabardin 23.07
18 Adygei 23.56
19 Balkar 24.09
20 Ossetian 24.12


Lebanese Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 39.02
2 West_Asian 17.09
3 West_Med 13.15
4 Red_Sea 12.24
5 North_Atlantic 6.07
6 Northeast_African 4.32
7 South_Asian 2.87
8 Sub-Saharan 2.85
9 Siberian 1.26
10 East_Asian 0.69
11 Baltic 0.44

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian 5.44
2 Jordanian 5.91
3 Palestinian 6.58
4 Lebanese_Muslim 6.63
5 Samaritan 8.8
6 Tunisian_Jewish 9.18
7 Libyan_Jewish 9.24
8 Cyprian 9.94
9 Bedouin 10.37
10 Lebanese_Christian 10.43
11 Lebanese_Druze 10.98
12 Sephardic_Jewish 12.43
13 Algerian_Jewish 13.5
14 Iranian_Jewish 14.01
15 Egyptian 14.05
16 Kurdish_Jewish 14.07
17 Italian_Jewish 14.25
18 Assyrian 15.76
19 Ashkenazi 16.31
20 South_Italian 17.32


Afghan Eurasia K9 ASI

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 45.18
2 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 11.05
3 SW_Asian 10.85
4 WHG 9.6
5 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 9.4
6 Ancestral_South_Indian 7.31
7 Siberian_E_Asian 3.66
8 SE_Asian 2.37
9 W_African 0.58

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Pashtun_Afghan 7.32
2 Tajik_Pomiri 10.59
3 Lezgin 12.17
4 Azeri_Dagestan 12.5
5 Tajik_Afghan 13.35
6 Uzbek_Afghan 13.43
7 Pathan 13.54
8 Chechen 13.63
9 Kumyk 14.79
10 Adygei 14.83
11 Iranian 15.21
12 Kalash 16.18
13 Balochi 16.38
14 Makrani 16.72
15 Kurd_SE 16.96
16 Azeri 17.1
17 Burusho 17.12
18 Abkhasian 17.62
19 Punjabi 17.93
20 Kurd_N 18.39


Lebanese Eurasia K9 ASI

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SW_Asian 30.48
2 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 25.87
3 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 23.93
4 WHG 9.37
5 W_African 5.87
6 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 3.17
7 Siberian_E_Asian 1.06
8 Ancestral_South_Indian 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese 5.71
2 Syrian 5.9
3 Jordanian 6.74
4 Druze 8.89
5 Cypriot 10.02
6 Iraqi_Jew 11.64
7 Georgian_Jew 12.37
8 Turkish 12.37
9 Armenian 13.5
10 Iranian_Jew 13.8
11 BedouinA 16.05
12 Azeri 16.13
13 Maltese 16.97
14 Kurd_N 17.1
15 Sicilian 18.25
16 Iranian 18.56
17 Georgian 19.49
18 Yemen 19.54
19 Kumyk 20.05
20 Adygei 20.5



Afghan Puntdnal K13 global


# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 41.86
2 South_Asia 19.79
3 NE_Europe 17.25
4 SW_Europe 8.71
5 SW_Asia 5.93
6 Siberia 2.72
7 Americas 1.2
8 East_Africa 1.01
9 NE_Asia 0.66
10 South_Africa 0.45
11 SE_Asia 0.43

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Afghan_Pashtun 2.84
2 Pakistan_Pashtun 5.64
3 Pathan 5.83
4 Tadjik 10.26
5 Balochi 10.77
6 Makrani 12.02
7 Brahui 12.35
8 Burusho 14.67
9 Sindhi 15.62
10 Afghan_Uzbeki 17.81
11 Iranian 18.53
12 Dagestan_Azeri 18.68
13 Punjabi 18.73
14 Kashmir_Pandit 19.19
15 Kumyk 19.25
16 Chechen 19.81
17 Ossetian 21.05
18 Adygei 21.29
19 Kurdish 21.43
20 Balkar 21.92

Lebanese Puntdnal K13 global

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 30.82
2 SW_Europe 29.76
3 SW_Asia 23.32
4 NE_Europe 3.93
5 West_Africa 3.43
6 East_Africa 3.36
7 South_Asia 2.59
8 NE_Asia 1.14
9 Siberia 1.11
10 South_Africa 0.29
11 Americas 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian 4.8
2 Jordanian 6.01
3 Lebanese_Muslim 6.42
4 Lebanese_Druze 6.66
5 Lebanese_Christian 6.79
6 Palestinian 8.28
7 Cypriot 9.76
8 Samaritan_Jew 11.73
9 Turkish_Kayseri 12.03
10 Turkish 12.55
11 Assyrian 13.07
12 Sephardic_Jew 14.35
13 Armenian 14.39
14 Egyptian 14.71
15 Azerbaijan_Azeri 16.34
16 Turkish_Aydin 16.48
17 Egyptian_Copts 16.79
18 Italian_Sicilian 17.01
19 Turkish_Trabzon 17.21
20 Ashkenazy_Jew 17.56


Afghan Near East Neolithic K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 36.67
2 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 20.67
3 CHG_EEF 19.93
4 EHG 7.62
5 NATUFIAN 5.44
6 SHG_WHG 4.27
7 POLAR 1.56
8 KARITIANA 1.51
9 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 1.21
10 SIBERIAN 1.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Pashtun_Afghan 5.15
2 Kalash 11.25
3 Pathan 12.34
4 Tajik 12.81
5 Iranian_Bandari 13.34
6 Iranian_Shirazi 16.4
7 Iranian_Mazandarani 16.95
8 Makrani 17
9 Balochi 17.03
10 Burusho 17.1
11 Iranian 17.17
12 Brahui 18.17
13 Kurd_SE 18.96
14 Kurd_C 19.62
15 Sindhi 20
16 Iranian_Lori 20.17
17 Azeri 21.37
18 GujaratiA 21.71
19 Lezgin 23.3
20 Kumyk 23.86

Lebanese Near East Neolithic K13


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 25.21
2 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 24.05
3 NATUFIAN 22.7
4 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 14.37
5 SUB_SAHARAN 6.54
6 EHG 3.73
7 SHG_WHG 1.24
8 SIBERIAN 0.93
9 SE_ASIAN 0.51
10 POLAR 0.41
11 KARITIANA 0.28
12 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese 5.78
2 Syrian 6.76
3 Jordanian 7.57
4 Druze 9.28
5 Turkish_Adana 9.96
6 Cypriot 10.19
7 Jew_Moroccan 11.15
8 Turkish_Kayseri 11.18
9 Palestinian 11.74
10 Jew_iraqi 11.79
11 Jew_Tunisian 12.3
12 Jew_Iranian 12.53
13 Jew_Libyan 12.77
14 Assyrian 13.34
15 Armenian 13.42
16 BedouinA 14.06
17 Turkish_Trabzon 14.69
18 Azeri 14.72
19 Turkish 14.75
20 Turkish_Istanbul 15.27



Afghan Puntdnal K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.68
2 S_Indian 20.79
3 NE_European 17.37
4 Mediterranean 10.82
5 SW_Asian 4
6 Siberian 3.07
7 Wht_Nile_River 1.02
8 Beringian 0.54
9 Amerindian 0.53
10 Horn_Of_Africa 0.46
11 Omo_River 0.35
12 S_African 0.33
13 E_Asian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Pashtun 4.14
2 Tadjik 10.54
3 Pathan 12.03
4 Burusho 17.66
5 Turkmen 18.02
6 Balochi 18.24
7 Iranian 18.83
8 Makrani 19
9 Kashmiri 19.07
10 Brahui 19.42
11 Chechen 19.97
12 Kumyk 20.69
13 Romani 20.75
14 Sindhi 21.4
15 Lezgin 21.65
16 Kurdish 21.92
17 Balkar 22.86
18 Nogai 23.89
19 North_Ossetian 23.89
20 Turk_Istanbul 23.97

Lebanese Puntdnal K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Mediterranean 32.08
2 Caucasian 28.52
3 SW_Asian 13.93
4 Horn_Of_Africa 9.18
5 NE_European 7.35
6 W_African 3.36
7 S_Indian 2.21
8 E_Asian 1.26
9 Omo_River 1.16
10 Siberian 0.57
11 Oceanian 0.23
12 Amerindian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Palestinian 6.52
2 Lebanese 7.18
3 Iraqi_Jew 9.16
4 Syrian 9.88
5 Jordanian 10.25
6 Samaritian 11.21
7 Cypriot 12.51
8 Druze 13.03
9 Sephardic_Jew 14.17
10 Egyptian 14.42
11 Turk_Kayseri 15.09
12 Assyrian 15.92
13 Ashkenazy_Jew 16.5
14 Libyan 16.6
15 Sicilian 16.89
16 Kurdish 17.91
17 Armenian 19.29
18 Yemenite_Jew 19.32
19 Azerbaijani 19.34
20 Turk_Istanbul 20.55


-------

so from an oracle closeness point of view you are correct with your statement

BUT ...the "problem" is that afghans due to the higher south asian come out as half caucasus(often north caucasus) and half north/northwest indian/south asian

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Kumyk +50% Pathan @ 2.702866


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Abkhasian +50% GujaratiA @ 4.815619



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Chechen +50% Kashmiri @ 3.366829



and since the lebanese scores components that most west asians score also high in just with the difference that some components are scored in a higher/lower amount . me personally see the lebanese as a more west asian population . but not by much

[Mingle]

ANI is a mixed component and not native to India:


Two main different ancient populations are ancestral to modern Indians: the Ancestral North Indian (ANI) ancestry, a west Eurasian ancestry, and the Ancestral South Indian (ASI) ancestry. None of them exists in unmixed form, and both contribute a variable amount of the ancestry of South Asians[Reich et al. 2009].

ANI can be modelled as a mix of ancestry related to both western Iranian farmers and people from the Bronze Age Eurasian steppe, and is thus close to Middle Easterners, Central Asians, and Europeans[Lazaridis et al. 2016]. Because of that, it is possible that the ANI component was prevalent in the Mehrgarh and later Indus Valley Civilisation, expanding eastward into South India in an admixture event associated with the spread of farming, as suggested by mtDNA lineages that entered India from Anatolia, the Caucasus and Iran in the earliest Neolithic sites. The ASI component may have expanded earlier, possibly in different waves, from west and south-west Asia, with the end of the last Ice Age[Silva et al. 2017].

https://indo-european.info/ie/Ancestral_North_Indians_and_Ancestral_South_Indian s

Just cause Indians have it in significant amounts doesn't make it an inherently Indian/South Asian thing.

[Myanthropologies]

here a Lebanese and an Afghan gedmatch results . the oracle and the number next to the population are what is taken to make such maps :

Afghan Eurogenes K13 :

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asian 40.22
2 South_Asian 25.74
3 Baltic 10.76
4 East_Med 8.81
5 North_Atlantic 7.64
6 Siberian 2.92
7 Red_Sea 1.54
8 Amerindian 1.29
9 Northeast_African 1
10 West_Med 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Afghan_Pashtun 2.88
2 Kalash 11.42
3 Tadjik 11.89
4 Pathan 13.26
5 Makrani 13.99
6 Afghan_Tadjik 14.28
7 Balochi 14.88
8 Burusho 14.89
9 Brahui 15.93
10 Punjabi_Jat 17.67
11 Sindhi 19.4
12 Tabassaran 20.21
13 Turkmen 20.58
14 Lezgin 21.56
15 Chechen 21.8
16 Kumyk 22.13
17 Kabardin 23.07
18 Adygei 23.56
19 Balkar 24.09
20 Ossetian 24.12


Lebanese Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 39.02
2 West_Asian 17.09
3 West_Med 13.15
4 Red_Sea 12.24
5 North_Atlantic 6.07
6 Northeast_African 4.32
7 South_Asian 2.87
8 Sub-Saharan 2.85
9 Siberian 1.26
10 East_Asian 0.69
11 Baltic 0.44

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian 5.44
2 Jordanian 5.91
3 Palestinian 6.58
4 Lebanese_Muslim 6.63
5 Samaritan 8.8
6 Tunisian_Jewish 9.18
7 Libyan_Jewish 9.24
8 Cyprian 9.94
9 Bedouin 10.37
10 Lebanese_Christian 10.43
11 Lebanese_Druze 10.98
12 Sephardic_Jewish 12.43
13 Algerian_Jewish 13.5
14 Iranian_Jewish 14.01
15 Egyptian 14.05
16 Kurdish_Jewish 14.07
17 Italian_Jewish 14.25
18 Assyrian 15.76
19 Ashkenazi 16.31
20 South_Italian 17.32


Afghan Eurasia K9 ASI

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 45.18
2 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 11.05
3 SW_Asian 10.85
4 WHG 9.6
5 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 9.4
6 Ancestral_South_Indian 7.31
7 Siberian_E_Asian 3.66
8 SE_Asian 2.37
9 W_African 0.58

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Pashtun_Afghan 7.32
2 Tajik_Pomiri 10.59
3 Lezgin 12.17
4 Azeri_Dagestan 12.5
5 Tajik_Afghan 13.35
6 Uzbek_Afghan 13.43
7 Pathan 13.54
8 Chechen 13.63
9 Kumyk 14.79
10 Adygei 14.83
11 Iranian 15.21
12 Kalash 16.18
13 Balochi 16.38
14 Makrani 16.72
15 Kurd_SE 16.96
16 Azeri 17.1
17 Burusho 17.12
18 Abkhasian 17.62
19 Punjabi 17.93
20 Kurd_N 18.39


Lebanese Eurasia K9 ASI

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SW_Asian 30.48
2 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 25.87
3 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 23.93
4 WHG 9.37
5 W_African 5.87
6 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 3.17
7 Siberian_E_Asian 1.06
8 Ancestral_South_Indian 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese 5.71
2 Syrian 5.9
3 Jordanian 6.74
4 Druze 8.89
5 Cypriot 10.02
6 Iraqi_Jew 11.64
7 Georgian_Jew 12.37
8 Turkish 12.37
9 Armenian 13.5
10 Iranian_Jew 13.8
11 BedouinA 16.05
12 Azeri 16.13
13 Maltese 16.97
14 Kurd_N 17.1
15 Sicilian 18.25
16 Iranian 18.56
17 Georgian 19.49
18 Yemen 19.54
19 Kumyk 20.05
20 Adygei 20.5



Afghan Puntdnal K13 global


# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 41.86
2 South_Asia 19.79
3 NE_Europe 17.25
4 SW_Europe 8.71
5 SW_Asia 5.93
6 Siberia 2.72
7 Americas 1.2
8 East_Africa 1.01
9 NE_Asia 0.66
10 South_Africa 0.45
11 SE_Asia 0.43

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Afghan_Pashtun 2.84
2 Pakistan_Pashtun 5.64
3 Pathan 5.83
4 Tadjik 10.26
5 Balochi 10.77
6 Makrani 12.02
7 Brahui 12.35
8 Burusho 14.67
9 Sindhi 15.62
10 Afghan_Uzbeki 17.81
11 Iranian 18.53
12 Dagestan_Azeri 18.68
13 Punjabi 18.73
14 Kashmir_Pandit 19.19
15 Kumyk 19.25
16 Chechen 19.81
17 Ossetian 21.05
18 Adygei 21.29
19 Kurdish 21.43
20 Balkar 21.92

Lebanese Puntdnal K13 global

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 West_Asia 30.82
2 SW_Europe 29.76
3 SW_Asia 23.32
4 NE_Europe 3.93
5 West_Africa 3.43
6 East_Africa 3.36
7 South_Asia 2.59
8 NE_Asia 1.14
9 Siberia 1.11
10 South_Africa 0.29
11 Americas 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian 4.8
2 Jordanian 6.01
3 Lebanese_Muslim 6.42
4 Lebanese_Druze 6.66
5 Lebanese_Christian 6.79
6 Palestinian 8.28
7 Cypriot 9.76
8 Samaritan_Jew 11.73
9 Turkish_Kayseri 12.03
10 Turkish 12.55
11 Assyrian 13.07
12 Sephardic_Jew 14.35
13 Armenian 14.39
14 Egyptian 14.71
15 Azerbaijan_Azeri 16.34
16 Turkish_Aydin 16.48
17 Egyptian_Copts 16.79
18 Italian_Sicilian 17.01
19 Turkish_Trabzon 17.21
20 Ashkenazy_Jew 17.56


Afghan Near East Neolithic K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 36.67
2 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 20.67
3 CHG_EEF 19.93
4 EHG 7.62
5 NATUFIAN 5.44
6 SHG_WHG 4.27
7 POLAR 1.56
8 KARITIANA 1.51
9 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 1.21
10 SIBERIAN 1.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Pashtun_Afghan 5.15
2 Kalash 11.25
3 Pathan 12.34
4 Tajik 12.81
5 Iranian_Bandari 13.34
6 Iranian_Shirazi 16.4
7 Iranian_Mazandarani 16.95
8 Makrani 17
9 Balochi 17.03
10 Burusho 17.1
11 Iranian 17.17
12 Brahui 18.17
13 Kurd_SE 18.96
14 Kurd_C 19.62
15 Sindhi 20
16 Iranian_Lori 20.17
17 Azeri 21.37
18 GujaratiA 21.71
19 Lezgin 23.3
20 Kumyk 23.86

Lebanese Near East Neolithic K13


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 CHG_EEF 25.21
2 IRAN_NEOLITHIC 24.05
3 NATUFIAN 22.7
4 ANATOLIA_NEOLITHIC 14.37
5 SUB_SAHARAN 6.54
6 EHG 3.73
7 SHG_WHG 1.24
8 SIBERIAN 0.93
9 SE_ASIAN 0.51
10 POLAR 0.41
11 KARITIANA 0.28
12 ANCESTRAL_INDIAN 0.02

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Lebanese 5.78
2 Syrian 6.76
3 Jordanian 7.57
4 Druze 9.28
5 Turkish_Adana 9.96
6 Cypriot 10.19
7 Jew_Moroccan 11.15
8 Turkish_Kayseri 11.18
9 Palestinian 11.74
10 Jew_iraqi 11.79
11 Jew_Tunisian 12.3
12 Jew_Iranian 12.53
13 Jew_Libyan 12.77
14 Assyrian 13.34
15 Armenian 13.42
16 BedouinA 14.06
17 Turkish_Trabzon 14.69
18 Azeri 14.72
19 Turkish 14.75
20 Turkish_Istanbul 15.27



Afghan Puntdnal K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 40.68
2 S_Indian 20.79
3 NE_European 17.37
4 Mediterranean 10.82
5 SW_Asian 4
6 Siberian 3.07
7 Wht_Nile_River 1.02
8 Beringian 0.54
9 Amerindian 0.53
10 Horn_Of_Africa 0.46
11 Omo_River 0.35
12 S_African 0.33
13 E_Asian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Pashtun 4.14
2 Tadjik 10.54
3 Pathan 12.03
4 Burusho 17.66
5 Turkmen 18.02
6 Balochi 18.24
7 Iranian 18.83
8 Makrani 19
9 Kashmiri 19.07
10 Brahui 19.42
11 Chechen 19.97
12 Kumyk 20.69
13 Romani 20.75
14 Sindhi 21.4
15 Lezgin 21.65
16 Kurdish 21.92
17 Balkar 22.86
18 Nogai 23.89
19 North_Ossetian 23.89
20 Turk_Istanbul 23.97

Lebanese Puntdnal K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Mediterranean 32.08
2 Caucasian 28.52
3 SW_Asian 13.93
4 Horn_Of_Africa 9.18
5 NE_European 7.35
6 W_African 3.36
7 S_Indian 2.21
8 E_Asian 1.26
9 Omo_River 1.16
10 Siberian 0.57
11 Oceanian 0.23
12 Amerindian 0.14

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Palestinian 6.52
2 Lebanese 7.18
3 Iraqi_Jew 9.16
4 Syrian 9.88
5 Jordanian 10.25
6 Samaritian 11.21
7 Cypriot 12.51
8 Druze 13.03
9 Sephardic_Jew 14.17
10 Egyptian 14.42
11 Turk_Kayseri 15.09
12 Assyrian 15.92
13 Ashkenazy_Jew 16.5
14 Libyan 16.6
15 Sicilian 16.89
16 Kurdish 17.91
17 Armenian 19.29
18 Yemenite_Jew 19.32
19 Azerbaijani 19.34
20 Turk_Istanbul 20.55


-------

so from an oracle closeness point of view you are correct with your statement

BUT ...the "problem" is that afghans due to the higher south asian come out as half caucasus(often north caucasus) and half north/northwest indian/south asian

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Kumyk +50% Pathan @ 2.702866


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Abkhasian +50% GujaratiA @ 4.815619



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Chechen +50% Kashmiri @ 3.366829



and since the lebanese scores components that most west asians score also high in just with the difference that some components are scored in a higher/lower amount . me personally see the lebanese as a more west asian population . but not by much

I mean call it whatever you want, but I have already showed where I place on PCA plots, and it is MUCH closer to real pure west asians than Levantines are. Levantines just have a lot of Arabian dna that Populations like Georgians and Chechens lack. I am not going off of pseudo geography terms invented by the white man, I am talking about alleles here. Genetically, Afghans are more closer to pure West Asians. Just because Armenians and Kurds are mixed with Eastern Mediterranean and the white man decided that you're geographically West Asian doesn't make the Lebanese genetically more West Asian than Afghans.

also Pathans aren't North indians, they're Pakistani Pashtuns.

http://i64.tinypic.com/t8s2hd.jpg

[Hadouken]

wait I will show what I mean by putting them into pics . posting them like that is very hard on the eyes and chaotic

[Purohit ji]

ANI is a mixed component and not native to India:



https://indo-european.info/ie/Ancestral_North_Indians_and_Ancestral_South_Indian s

Just cause Indians have it in significant amounts doesn't make it an inherently Indian/South Asian thing.

but my point was not that. my point was south indian component which is pure indian. like these people below they score it 84% which my people[rajasthani]score around 30% and your people 18%. so you are very close to north indians.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KuEhXqFlfdI/maxresdefault.jpg

[Myanthropologies]

ANI is a mixed component and not native to India:



https://indo-european.info/ie/Ancestral_North_Indians_and_Ancestral_South_Indian s

Just cause Indians have it in significant amounts doesn't make it an inherently Indian/South Asian thing.

The ASI is also half Iranian Neolithic as well.

[Myanthropologies]

but my point was not that. my point was south indian component which is pure indian. like these people below they score it 84% which my people[rajasthani]score around 30% and your people 18%. so you are very close to north indians.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KuEhXqFlfdI/maxresdefault.jpg

There is no such thing as pure South Indian. South Indians are like 60% Iranian Neolithic and the rest Onge.

[Myanthropologies]

Genetics are interesting but all Humans are very close to each other. 98% like Chimps but look nothing like them.

At the end of the day this is all kinda pseudo.

[JohnSmith]

but my point was not that. my point was south indian component which is pure indian. like these people below they score it 84% which my people[rajasthani]score around 30% and your people 18%. so you are very close to north indians.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/KuEhXqFlfdI/maxresdefault.jpg

They look almost African.

[Myanthropologies]

They look almost African.

They are 65-70% Caucasoid surpisingly.

[Babak]

Pashtuns dont really cluster with north indians tho

[Mingle]

The ASI is also half Iranian Neolithic as well.

Not doubting you, but do you have a source?

[JohnSmith]

They are 65-70% Caucasoid surpisingly.

Looks can be deceiving ,

[Hadouken]

wait I will show what I mean by putting them into pics . posting them like that is very hard on the eyes and chaotic

not sure if it is clear what I mean

http://up.picr.de/31055157aw.jpg

http://up.picr.de/31055158uc.jpg

and as I said additionally . the afghan gets


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Kumyk +50% Pathan @ 2.702866


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Abkhasian +50% GujaratiA @ 4.815619



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Chechen +50% Kashmiri @ 3.366829

[Purohit ji]

Pashtuns dont really cluster with north indians tho
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Abkhasian +50% GujaratiA @ 4.815619


1 Afghan_Pashtun 2.88
2 Kalash 11.42
3 Tadjik 11.89
4 Pathan 13.26
5 Makrani 13.99
6 Afghan_Tadjik 14.28
7 Balochi 14.88
8 Burusho 14.89
9 Brahui 15.93
10 Punjabi_Jat 17.67
11 Sindhi 19.4

[Babak]

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Abkhasian +50% GujaratiA @ 4.815619


1 Afghan_Pashtun 2.88
2 Kalash 11.42
3 Tadjik 11.89
4 Pathan 13.26
5 Makrani 13.99
6 Afghan_Tadjik 14.28
7 Balochi 14.88
8 Burusho 14.89
9 Brahui 15.93
10 Punjabi_Jat 17.67
11 Sindhi 19.4

Its just shared south asian ancestry

[StonyArabia]

I think that's just Australia.

Pashtuns are the more common Afghans, but some of the do have the North Indian look, well others have more of Iranian look. Honestly they look in between. However there is significant Afghan Hazara community who look very Asian in Canada, especially Alberta.

[Hadouken]

They are 65-70% Caucasoid surpisingly.

no . more like 50%

and they are 30%+ ASE

[Mingle]

They are 65-70% Caucasoid surpisingly.

I think it's more accurate to say they are X% West Eurasian, not Caucasoid. Caucasoid is a racial phenotype not a genetic component.

[Hadouken]

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Abkhasian +50% GujaratiA @ 4.815619


1 Afghan_Pashtun 2.88
2 Kalash 11.42
3 Tadjik 11.89
4 Pathan 13.26
5 Makrani 13.99
6 Afghan_Tadjik 14.28
7 Balochi 14.88
8 Burusho 14.89
9 Brahui 15.93
10 Punjabi_Jat 17.67
11 Sindhi 19.4

makes them very different from indians still

to be half northernmost indian they have to be half north caucasian ....

afghans are different from indians dude . but I dont see them as "proper" west asians but more their own thing kinda and unique... dont know why you are all over the place again in this thread . it is about west asians

[Purohit ji]

makes them very different from indians still

to be half northernmost indian they have to be half north caucasian ....

afghans are different from indians dude . but I dont see them as "proper" west asians but more their own thing kinda and unique... dont know why you are all over the place again in this thread . it is about west asians

i am also a member of this forum. i didnt write anything wrong or insulting or hateful

[Hadouken]

i am also a member of this forum. i didnt write anything wrong or insulting or hateful

of course but I noticed in this kind of threads especially with afghans you are very motivated and post a lot and try to take their "west asianness" away as much as you can which is pretty weird especially since you dont have much to do with afghans and especially not with west asians . for a long time you havent been much active but this thread pulled you like a bear to honey :D

[Babak]

They look something in between south asians and iranians tbh

https://southfront.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/87269703_talibanheratgetty.gif?x84725

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/ea/02/83/ea02839b30958b3e1b7a78a82ff441c6--afghanistan-pakistan.jpg

http://nation.com.pk/digital_images/large/2015-09-15/pakistan-utopian-fallacies-galore-1442258393-1717.jpg

[Zroota]

Afghans tend to have a look that is a mixture of Mongoloid and South Asian. Of course, there are west Asian looking Afghans, but the former predominate. What is wrong with that? You're situated in Central Asia. You're at the crossroads of western Asia, south Asia, north Asia and eastern Asia. So you would look a bit multifarious. This has nothing to do with the "white man". Be proud of your diverse looks.

Nordid Afghans:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/39/38/48/393848648f529497626d0ade4a211080--afghanistan-war-beautiful-beautiful.jpg
http://www.gumilev-center.tj/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/4798152_871c7887e6_m.jpg
https://i1.wp.com/www.burqasandbeer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/main-qimg-9ca6d2eccd3e71121d555d9c61a96f44.jpeg

Mongoloid Afghans:
http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/images/2012/12/26/20121226141214496218_8.jpg
http://mms.businesswire.com/media/20171113006486/en/624486/5/12802.jpg

Arabid Afghans:
https://i1.wp.com/www.burqasandbeer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/11x_vet_186.jpg
https://www.icrc.org/sites/default/files/styles/document_main/public/document/image/afghanistan-afghan-people-war-2015-red-cross_0.jpg?itok=-lksPs_W

Indid Afghan:
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/ce/ce/41/cece419c8d593637796af5bc72c151c3--human-faces-peace.jpg

Med Afghan:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/bf/e6/80/bfe6806b1d638e6cbcaecd1907374b59--travers-afghanistan.jpg

Of course people would underestimate your consanguinity with Middle Easterners when many of Afghans look diverse. ;)

[Myanthropologies]

not sure if it is clear what I mean

http://up.picr.de/31055157aw.jpg

http://up.picr.de/31055158uc.jpg

and as I said additionally . the afghan gets


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Kumyk +50% Pathan @ 2.702866


Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Abkhasian +50% GujaratiA @ 4.815619



Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Chechen +50% Kashmiri @ 3.366829

Pathans and Kalash aren't North Indians, and GujaratiA is said to be not a real Gujurati, just like that one "Kurd_C" is not a real Kurd (hence why most kurds don't score near it). I also find it funny how the Georgian scores 1.28% Papaun on that calculator while the Afghan has 0% even though the Afghan is supposed to be more "South Indian" admixed lol. Anyways, you already shared Lebanese vs afghan results on various calculators on the last page and the afghan clearly cluster closer to the north caucasians.

Not to sound rude, but I still don't get your point. In the first set of pictures you posted, it was obvious to me that the Lebanese had far less West Asian than the Afghan and Georgian did. Also, you failed to acknowledge that the lebanese sample had a total of 7% African DNA and 12% Red Sea DNA which is completely foreign to Georgia. That adds up to 19% African-Arabian DNA. The "South Asian" in the first calculator is heavily masking Iranian Neolithic and and even a bit of WHG-EHG DNA as well. So, it is making the West Asian DNA in Afghans look smaller than it actually is. Yes, Georgians do have Eastern Mediterranean mixture, but groups like chechens, Lezgins, Kumyks, etc do not and are much more closer to Afghans and Tajiks than they are to Levantines.

Again, on a pca plots form two different calculators, I place much closer to pure West Asians than Levantines do
http://i68.tinypic.com/5ck20w.png
http://i68.tinypic.com/5ck20w.png

[Myanthropologies]

Afghans tend to have a look that is a mixture of Mongoloid and South Asian. Of course, there are west Asian looking Afghans, but the former predominate. What is wrong with that? You're situated in Central Asia. You're at the crossroads of western Asia, south Asia, north Asia and eastern Asia. So you would look a bit multifarious. This has nothing to do with the "white man". Be proud of your diverse looks.

Nordid Afghans:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/39/38/48/393848648f529497626d0ade4a211080--afghanistan-war-beautiful-beautiful.jpg
http://www.gumilev-center.tj/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/4798152_871c7887e6_m.jpg
https://i1.wp.com/www.burqasandbeer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/main-qimg-9ca6d2eccd3e71121d555d9c61a96f44.jpeg

Mongoloid Afghans:
http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/images/2012/12/26/20121226141214496218_8.jpg
http://mms.businesswire.com/media/20171113006486/en/624486/5/12802.jpg

Arabid Afghans:
https://i1.wp.com/www.burqasandbeer.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/11x_vet_186.jpg
https://www.icrc.org/sites/default/files/styles/document_main/public/document/image/afghanistan-afghan-people-war-2015-red-cross_0.jpg?itok=-lksPs_W

Indid Afghan:
https://i.pinimg.com/236x/ce/ce/41/cece419c8d593637796af5bc72c151c3--human-faces-peace.jpg

Med Afghan:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/bf/e6/80/bfe6806b1d638e6cbcaecd1907374b59--travers-afghanistan.jpg

Of course people would underestimate your consanguinity with Middle Easterners when many of Afghans look diverse. ;)

Afghans look diverse because there are several different ethnicities in Afghanistan. The Hazara, for example, look mongolian because they are descended from Mongolians. The gujjars look indid because they are indid descended, but they are still afghan nationality wise. Pashtuns indeed look very west asian, and Google images isn't the best source.

[JohnSmith]

At the end of the day this is all kinda pseudo.

are afghans considered whit eon the government census?

[Myanthropologies]

are afghans considered whit eon the government census?

Yes they are, but that is super innacurate for Hazaras especially. Tbey are descendants of mongolians. Pashtun and Tajiks are at least caucasoid on the other hand, but still not "white."

[Purohit ji]

of course but I noticed in this kind of threads especially with afghans you are very motivated and post a lot and try to take their "west asianness" away as much as you can which is pretty weird especially since you dont have much to do with afghans and especially not with west asians . for a long time you havent been much active but this thread pulled you like a bear to honey :D

lol. its because anthro-afghans always try to distance themselves from south asian genetics. which i feel like they dont like us or they hate us thats why they are doing this. maybe they are owd

[StonyArabia]

They look something in between south asians and iranians tbh

https://southfront.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/87269703_talibanheratgetty.gif?x84725

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/ea/02/83/ea02839b30958b3e1b7a78a82ff441c6--afghanistan-pakistan.jpg

http://nation.com.pk/digital_images/large/2015-09-15/pakistan-utopian-fallacies-galore-1442258393-1717.jpg

That's what I said, at least in the case of Pashtuns, the Farsiwans look more Iranian though

[Babak]

There are couple of things that Afghans and west asians dont share even though afghans are culturally closer to west asia. Taarof, for example is something that afghans don't have and don't know what it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taarof

Also @Purohit ji Its not because they're owd or whatever, its because they're closer to west asians than to you.

[Myanthropologies]

lol. its because anthro-afghans always try to distance themselves from south asian genetics. which i feel like they dont like us or they hate us thats why they are doing this. maybe they are owd

I dont dislike south asians though. I've dated a south asian girl for 1.5 yrs before. I have desi friends at my university, too. We just try to be recognized as what we are because we have our own culture and genetics. The Pakistanis and indians I know in real life dinstance themselves from Afghans, too. They tend to see Iranians as more similar to middle eastern people.

[StonyArabia]

are afghans considered whit eon the government census?

No in the Canadian census they are considered West Asians actually

[Myanthropologies]

There are couple of things that Afghans and west asians dont share even though afghans are culturally closer to west asia. Taarof, for example is something that afghans don't have and don't know what it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taarof

Also @Purohit ji Its not because they're owd or whatever, its because they're closer to west asians than to you.

I've heard of that before, and that relates to politics and social stratification more than it does to real culture.

[Hadouken]

Pathans and Kalash aren't North Indians, and GujaratiA is said to be not a real Gujurati, just like that one "Kurd_C" is not a real Kurd (hence why most kurds don't score near it). I also find out funny how the Georgian scores 1.28% Papaun on that calculator while the Afghan has 0% even though the Afghan is supposed to be more "South Indian" admixed lol. Anyways, you already shared Lebanese vs afghan results on various calculators on the last page and the afghan clearly cluster closer to the north caucasians.

Not to sound rude, but I still don't get your point. In the first set of pictures you posted, it was obvious to me that the Lebanese had far less West Asian than the Afghan and Georgian did. Also, you failed to acknowledge that the lebanese sample had a total of 7% African DNA and 12% Red Sea DNA which is completely foreign to Georgia. That adds up to 19% African-Arabian DNA. The "South Asian" in the first calculator is heavily masking Iranian Neolithic and and even a bit of WHG-EHG DNA as well. So, it is making the West Asian DNA in Afghans look smaller than it actually is. Yes, Georgians do have Eastern Mediterranean mixture, but groups like chechens, Lezgins, Kumyks, etc do not and are much more closer to Afghans and Tajiks than they are to Levantines.

Again, on a pca plots form two different calculators, I place much closer to pure West Asians than Levantines do
http://i68.tinypic.com/5ck20w.png
http://i68.tinypic.com/5ck20w.png

I am not trying to take the west asianness of afghans away ...in case you think that is my aim

what I am trying to say is that the components the georgian scores in higher amounts...the lebanese them more than the afghan does plus the afghan has over 20% south asian . I know a lot of that is caucasoid and related to iran neolithic (it is not iran neolithic though because as you see the iran neo is already listed seperately) but it still is "too high" for west asian parameters

here K9 with the same people

http://up.picr.de/31055276lx.jpg

[Myanthropologies]

No in the Canadian census they are considered West Asians actually

On the US Census, they're considered "white," but if the 2020 census has a MENA category, Afghans will fall under that.

[Hadouken]

lol. its because anthro-afghans always try to distance themselves from south asian genetics. which i feel like they dont like us or they hate us thats why they are doing this. maybe they are owd

no I dont think the reason is that they dislike you or anything . but even if ...they are not forced to like you . indians dont like many people . why is it ok that you guys dislike people but others cant ? meh...

also it looks way more owd when indians jump in and try to cut afghans way to west asia with all force just to let you know lol

[Babak]

I've heard of that before, and that relates to politics and social stratification more than it does to real culture.

Its just a form of hospitality. Offering to pay their food when you dont really mean it etc

[StonyArabia]

On the US Census, they're considered "white," but if the 2020 census has a MENA category, Afghans will fall under that.

Let's hope they do. I always wanted the Middle Eastern census to classify us accurately. I mean we as White it is pointless. The reason Middle Easterners were classified as Whites because Levantine Christians lobbied for it, and eventually got that status, and they often intermix with high amounts with Whites. That said us non-Christian Middle Easterners should get our own classification and we were never given the White status anyhow, nor we want it. We have our unique identity.

It should be like this:
West Asian
Arab
North African

just like the Canadian census has.

[Babak]

That's what I said, at least in the case of Pashtuns, the Farsiwans look more Iranian though

Yea tajiks are closer to people from east iran. Theres many of them in mashad too. In fact, they can mimic Iranian accents making them indistinguishable from other Iranians, which includes heratis.

[JohnSmith]

Let's hope they do. I always wanted the Middle Eastern census to classify us accurately. I mean we as White it is pointless. The reason Middle Easterners were classified as Whites because Levantine Christians lobbied for it, and eventually got that status, and they often intermix with high amounts with Whites. That said us non-Christian Middle Easterners should get our own classification and we were never given the White status anyhow, nor we want it. We have our unique identity.

It should be like this:
West Asian
Arab
North African

just like the Canadian census has.

The funny thing is Mexico take no data on race. So I would imagine the racism is probably rampant there as there is no way to track it statistically.

[Myanthropologies]

I am not trying to take the west asianness of afghans away ...in case you think that is my aim

what I am trying to say is that the components the georgian scores in higher amounts...the lebanese them more than the afghan does plus the afghan has over 20% south asian . I know a lot of that is caucasoid and related to iran neolithic (it is not iran neolithic though because as you see the iran neo is already listed seperately) but it still is "too high" for west asian parameters

here K9 with the same people

http://up.picr.de/31055276lx.jpg

Iranian Neolithic is listed separately, but south asian is still mixed with iralian neolithic in that calculator, hence why the ASI is only 7% in the calculator above. Georgians and Armenians are mixed with Eastern Mediterranean. Chechens are closer to pure West Asian and are genetically far closer to Afghans than to Levantines, as i have showed you with my PCA plots and we have seen oracles on the other page, too.

Even besides that, how can you not acknowledge that significant SW_Asian percentage (30%) and 5% W. African? (having that much west African DNA is much more significant than Afghans having only 7% ASI dna, because West African DNA is 3x more foreign to West Asia than ASI is, which will contribute to a greater "pull" factor). Both of those components (Southwest Asia and West African) are much greater in the Lebanese than what Georgians get, and is clearly related to Arabian, non west asian ancestry. Overall, I don't think it's a fair comparison since my point that Levantines have sw asian, ssa, and red sea admixture persists. Afghans may have 7% ASI and reduced med, but they are still more genetically West Asian than someone who is 30% South western Asian and 5% West African.

[Myanthropologies]

They look something in between south asians and iranians tbh

https://southfront.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/87269703_talibanheratgetty.gif?x84725

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/ea/02/83/ea02839b30958b3e1b7a78a82ff441c6--afghanistan-pakistan.jpg

http://nation.com.pk/digital_images/large/2015-09-15/pakistan-utopian-fallacies-galore-1442258393-1717.jpg

Um we definitely dont

[Hadouken]

Iranian Neolithic is listed separately, but south asian is still mixed with iralian neolithic in that calculator, hence why the ASI is only 7% in the calculator above. Georgians and Armenians are mixed with Eastern Mediterranean. Chechens are closer to pure West Asian and are genetically far closer to Afghans than to Levantines, as i have showed you with my PCA plots and we have seen oracles on the other page, too.

Even besides that, how can you not acknowledge that significant SW_Asian percentage (30%) and 5% W. African? (having that much west African DNA is much more significant than Afghans having only 7% ASI dna, because West African DNA is 3x more foreign to West Asia than ASI is, which will contribute to a greater "pull" factor). Both of those components (Southwest Asia and West African) are much greater in the Lebanese than what Georgians get, and is clearly related to Arabian, non west asian ancestry. Overall, I don't think it's a fair comparison since my point that Levantines have sw asian, ssa, and red sea admixture persists. Afghans may have 7% ASI and reduced med, but they are still more genetically West Asian than someone who is 30% South western Asian and 5% West African.

Georgians are among the purest west asians . but if you want to have a Chechen result here you go :

# Population Percent
1 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 42.19
2 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 21.72
3 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 11.78
4 SW_Asian 10.06
5 WHG 9.99
6 Siberian_E_Asian 2.74
7 Ancestral_South_Indian 1.32
8 SE_Asian 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Azeri_Dagestan 6.16
2 Chechen 6.61
3 Adygei 6.7
4 Lezgin 7.63
5 Kumyk 8.08
6 Abkhasian 10.77
7 Georgian 12.93
8 Kurd_C 13.56
9 Azeri 13.78
10 Iranian 14.31
11 Kurd_N 15.12
12 Tajik_Pomiri 16.83
13 Turkish 17.49
14 Pashtun_Afghan 17.51
15 Armenian 19.38
16 Uzbek_Afghan 19.72
17 Tajik_Afghan 20.09
18 Georgian_Jew 21.45
19 Iranian_Jew 23.28
20 KOTIAS 23.49

---

you dont seem to get my point . the components the georgian and also chechen guy scores in high amounts are higher in the lebanese than in the afghan

and wtf ...no way is ASI less foreign to west asia than sw-asian . you have to be joking right now ....O_o . ASI is 100000 km away while sw-asia is just more south and as you see the chechen even scores it despite being from north caucasus / europe geography

besides of that is ASI mostly australoid (or take ASE) while sw-asian is caucasoid

[Myanthropologies]

That's what I said, at least in the case of Pashtuns, the Farsiwans look more Iranian though

We don't look between Iranians and indians, we have our own unique look that often overlaps with Iranians. It's just that Iranians, Kurds, Levantines, etc are in the sun less, get plastic surgery more often, use sunscreen, etc. Put them.in the conditions of most afghan people and they won't look much different.

and Farsiwans don't necessairly look more persian. They are persianized pashtuns and some even look mongoloid admixed.

[Hadouken]

We don't look between Iranians and indians, we have our own unique look that often overlaps with Iranians. It's just that Iranians, Kurds, Levantines, etc are in the sun less, get plastic surgery more often, use sunscreen, etc. Put them.in the conditions of most afghan people and they won't look much different.

and Farsiwans don't necessairly look more persian. They are persianized pashtuns and some even look mongoloid admixed.

now you are trolling ....

come on

[Purohit ji]

no I dont think the reason is that they dislike you or anything . but even if ...they are not forced to like you . indians dont like many people . why is it ok that you guys dislike people but others cant ? meh...

also it looks way more owd when indians jump in and try to cut afghans way to west asia with all force just to let you know lol
ok i will not be in their way to west asia. happy journey of 30 pages.
purohit-al-andmaani

[Myanthropologies]

Georgians are among the purest west asians . but if you want to have a Chechen result here you go :

# Population Percent
1 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 42.19
2 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 21.72
3 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 11.78
4 SW_Asian 10.06
5 WHG 9.99
6 Siberian_E_Asian 2.74
7 Ancestral_South_Indian 1.32
8 SE_Asian 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Azeri_Dagestan 6.16
2 Chechen 6.61
3 Adygei 6.7
4 Lezgin 7.63
5 Kumyk 8.08
6 Abkhasian 10.77
7 Georgian 12.93
8 Kurd_C 13.56
9 Azeri 13.78
10 Iranian 14.31
11 Kurd_N 15.12
12 Tajik_Pomiri 16.83
13 Turkish 17.49
14 Pashtun_Afghan 17.51
15 Armenian 19.38
16 Uzbek_Afghan 19.72
17 Tajik_Afghan 20.09
18 Georgian_Jew 21.45
19 Iranian_Jew 23.28
20 KOTIAS 23.49

---

you dont seem to get my point . the components the georgian and also chechen guy scores in high amounts are higher in the lebanese than in the afghan

and wtf ...no way is ASI less foreign to west asia than sw-asian . you have to be joking right now ....O_o . ASI is 100000 km away while sw-asia is just more south and as you see the chechen even scores it despite being from north caucasus / europe geography

besides of that is ASI mostly australoid (or take ASE) while sw-asian is caucasoid

I'm talking about West African, not SW Asian. Lebanese people score 5% West African which is 5x more foreign to West Asia and West Eurasia in general than ASI is, which afghans only score 5-7% of. You seemed to miss that, though. Lebanese may have less than 1% ASI, but afghans have less than 1% West African. Also, Chechens only have 10% Southwest Asian while the lebanese have 30%, that's a huge difference. Also, SW Asian masks red Sea behind it, which has additonal masked SSA blood. It is glaringly obvious that afghan and Chechen genetics are more similar than Lebanese and Chechen genetics are, the oracle itself even shows it, and as does the way I cluster on PCAs. I'm not too far from Lezgins on Chechens while the lebanese and Druze are all the way down there.

[Hadouken]

ok i will not be in their way to west asia. happy journey of 30 pages.
purohit-al-andmaani

I will not post much anymore either . it sucks

I have made my points clear already . people shall make out of it what they want

[JohnSmith]

We don't look between Iranians and indians, we have our own unique look that often overlaps with Iranians. It's just that Iranians, Kurds, Levantines, etc are in the sun less, get plastic surgery more often, use sunscreen, etc. Put them.in the conditions of most afghan people and they won't look much different.

and Farsiwans don't necessairly look more persian. They are persianized pashtuns and some even look mongoloid admixed.
I have not seen many Afghans so I do not know but do not know why Afghans would be in the sun more than the other people.

[StonyArabia]

Afghanistan can be West Asian again


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LTyjf69iy9A

[Myanthropologies]

I have not seen many Afghans so I do not know but do not know why Afghans would be in the sun more than the other people.

Because they're homeless and their houses got destroyed by wars, bro..even depsite that, they're not darker.

[Mingle]

Its just a form of hospitality. Offering to pay their food when you dont really mean it etc

I never heard the word "taarof" before but what you just described is very common among Pashtuns. We call it "sat" (ست).

[Myanthropologies]

now you are trolling ....

come on

I am not trolling, it's serious. Okay, less so with Kurds. But Lebanese, Persians, and Armenians that are wealthier often have nose jobs, and because they're in the sun less and have access to things such as sunscreen, dress in more western clothing, they look that way. I don't know about Turkish Kurds, but many Iranians of all ethnicities, including kurdish, have seen the plastic surgeon before. So many famous Armenians such as ana kasprian, Kim kardashain, etc have had hella plastic surgery.

[Hadouken]

I am not trolling, it's serious. Okay, less so with Kurds. But Lebanese, Persians, and Armenians that are wealthier often have nose jobs, and because they're in the sun less and have access to things such as sunscreen, dress in more western clothing, they look that way. I don't know about Turkish Kurds, but Iranians of all ethnicities, including kurdish, have seen the plastic surgeon before. So many famous Armenians such as ana kasprian have had hella plastic surgery.

plastic surgeries are very rare among us . what I mean is that other than the occassional person with a medical problem or some sickly vain people (or psychological problem) here and there that you have in every ethnicity ...we dont have plastic surgery in noticable amounts . lmao

cant speak for others but yeah ...

and I know that posting war torn people and especially old men with beards and tan etc. is not a good way of presenting afghans or any people of that matter but the sunscreen thing is total nonsense . a lot of west asians are just in the sun without any sunscreen ..and sunscreen doesnt protect from tanning but burning xD

and the surgery thing would mean that you have basically a big portion of the population have it including men . so what you are basically saying is that all of iran walks around with surgeries . nope

[JohnSmith]

Because they're homeless and their houses got destroyed by wars, bro..even depsite that, they're not darker.

Maybe it depends where they live, Pakistan borders much of Afghanistan and most Pakistanis are quite brown but IDK.

[JohnSmith]

plastic surgeries are very rare among us . what I mean is that other than the occassional person with a medical problem or some sickly vain people here and there that you have in every ethnicity ...we dont have plastic surgery in noticable amounts . lmao

cant speak for others but yeah ...

and I know that posting war torn people and especially old men with beards and tan etc. is not a good way of presenting afghans or any people of that matter but the sunscreen thing is total nonsense . a lot of west asians are just in the sun without any sunscreen ..and sunscreen doesnt protect from tanning but burning xD

and the surgery thing would mean that you have basically a big portion of the population have it including men . so what you are basically saying is that all of iran walks around with surgeries . nope

sunblock does not people from tanning. That is true but do not see how this matters much.

[Myanthropologies]

plastic surgeries are very rare among us . what I mean is that other than the occassional person with a medical problem or some sickly vain people here and there that you have in every ethnicity ...we dont have plastic surgery in noticable amounts . lmao

cant speak for others but yeah ...

and I know that posting war torn people and especially old men with beards and tan etc. is not a good way of presenting afghans or any people of that matter but the sunscreen thing is total nonsense . a lot of west asians are just in the sun without any sunscreen ..and sunscreen doesnt protect from tanning but burning xD

and the surgery thing would mean that you have basically a big portion of the population have it including men . so what you are basically saying is that all of iran walks around with surgeries . nope

My point is that many people are comparing afghans to these west asians in western countries that DO go under the knife. And this whole getting darker thing isn't unique to just the mena or whatever you wanna call it region. In archeology documentaries, I have seen Europeans who have lived in certain North African countries for 10 years and their skin got almost as dark as the natives there.

[Hadouken]

My point is that many people are comparing afghans to these west asians that DO go under the knife. And this whole getting darker thing isn't unique to just the mena or whatever you wanna call it region. In archeology documentaries, I have seen Europeans who have lived in certain North African countries for 10 years and their skin got almost as dark as the natives there.

so lets just say that posting wartorn people who are not in the best physical condition and also heavily tanned from sun and bearded men is not a good way of presenting a population phenotypically . /agree

[Myanthropologies]

Maybe it depends where they live, Pakistan borders much of Afghanistan and most Pakistanis are quite brown but IDK.

In my anthropology textbook for my anthropology class, there is a map of actual measured unexposed skin colors, and Afghanistan falls in the same skin color range as other West Asians

http://i66.tinypic.com/t9zfyh.jpg

[Myanthropologies]

so lets just say that posting wartorn people who are not in the best physical condition and also heavily tanned from sun and bearded men is not a good way of presenting a population phenotypically . /agree

Agreed

[JohnSmith]

In my anthropology textbook for my anthropology class, there is a map of actual measured unexposed skin colors, and Afghanistan falls in the same skin color range as other West Asians

[Img]http://i6


I do not think they are particularly darker in Afghanistan,, Hamid Karzai does not look very dark he does kind of look like an Iranian,, don't you think? He is def on the lighter side. Does he pass in the Levant?

https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_675,w_1200,x_0,y_0/dpr_2.0/c_limit,w_740/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1493060033/articles/2011/08/16/hamid-karzai-vows-no-third-term/karzai-moreau_i8pok6

[Myanthropologies]

I do not think they are particularly darker in Afghanistan,, Hamid Karzai does not look very dark he does kind of look like an Iranian,, don't you think? He is def on the lighter side. Does he pass in the Levant?

https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_675,w_1200,x_0,y_0/dpr_2.0/c_limit,w_740/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1493060033/articles/2011/08/16/hamid-karzai-vows-no-third-term/karzai-moreau_i8pok6

I'm not sure, Mcree or the bedouin might know

[LoLeL]

You are an Afghan American and your opinion may no be similar to the people who live in Afghanistan. Do majority of Afghans feel closer to Iranians or South Asians? I know Afghanistan and Iran are related to each other (historically and culturally), but history is history. If your people drop the similarities and connections, then what do you expect? I doubt that "Iranic/Iranian" identity has any significant role in Afghanistan. Per what I see and read on internet, it seems Afghan identity consisted of Islam and tribalism. Pashtuns hate all non-Pashtuns and try to Pashtunize the Afghanistan, Sunnis hate Shias, and ...

For many people, Afghanistan reminds them of Pakistan. This is an image which created by both media and your people/government. When we hear the name of Afghanistan, only Talibans come to our minds and not an ancient regions which is related to some old civilizations.

[Seth MacFarlane]

Most Afghans look middle Eastern I don't know why ppl ask like it's india

[Seth MacFarlane]

I do not think they are particularly darker in Afghanistan,, Hamid Karzai does not look very dark he does kind of look like an Iranian,, don't you think? He is def on the lighter side. Does he pass in the Levant?

https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_675,w_1200,x_0,y_0/dpr_2.0/c_limit,w_740/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1493060033/articles/2011/08/16/hamid-karzai-vows-no-third-term/karzai-moreau_i8pok6

Yes ,Levant and Iraq.

[Babak]

Georgians are among the purest west asians . but if you want to have a Chechen result here you go :

# Population Percent
1 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 42.19
2 Early_Neolithic_Farmers 21.72
3 Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 11.78
4 SW_Asian 10.06
5 WHG 9.99
6 Siberian_E_Asian 2.74
7 Ancestral_South_Indian 1.32
8 SE_Asian 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Azeri_Dagestan 6.16
2 Chechen 6.61
3 Adygei 6.7
4 Lezgin 7.63
5 Kumyk 8.08
6 Abkhasian 10.77
7 Georgian 12.93
8 Kurd_C 13.56
9 Azeri 13.78
10 Iranian 14.31
11 Kurd_N 15.12
12 Tajik_Pomiri 16.83
13 Turkish 17.49
14 Pashtun_Afghan 17.51
15 Armenian 19.38
16 Uzbek_Afghan 19.72
17 Tajik_Afghan 20.09
18 Georgian_Jew 21.45
19 Iranian_Jew 23.28
20 KOTIAS 23.49

---

you dont seem to get my point . the components the georgian and also chechen guy scores in high amounts are higher in the lebanese than in the afghan

and wtf ...no way is ASI less foreign to west asia than sw-asian . you have to be joking right now ....O_o . ASI is 100000 km away while sw-asia is just more south and as you see the chechen even scores it despite being from north caucasus / europe geography

besides of that is ASI mostly australoid (or take ASE) while sw-asian is caucasoid

Wrong quote

[Babak]

Um we definitely dont

Oh yea they do. All of these people can pass in Iran with no trouble.

[Babak]

We don't look between Iranians and indians, we have our own unique look that often overlaps with Iranians. It's just that Iranians, Kurds, Levantines, etc are in the sun less, get plastic surgery more often, use sunscreen, etc. Put them.in the conditions of most afghan people and they won't look much different.

and Farsiwans don't necessairly look more persian. They are persianized pashtuns and some even look mongoloid admixed.

Tajiks arent persianized pashtuns. They are responsible for reviving the persian identity and uniting Persian-speaking peoples. In fact, Heratis are genetically closer to people from East Iran.

According to Richard Nelson Frye, a leading historian of Iranian and Central Asian history, the Persian migration to Central Asia may be considered the beginning of the modern Tajik nation, and ethnic Persians, along with some elements of East-Iranian Bactrians and Sogdians, as the main ancestors of modern Tajiks.[24] In later works, Frye expands on the complexity of the historical origins of the Tajiks. In a 1996 publication, Frye explains that many "factors must be taken into account in explaining the evolution of the peoples whose remnants are the Tajiks in Central Asia" and that "the peoples of Central Asia, whether Iranian or Turkic speaking, have one culture, one religion, one set of social values and traditions with only language separating them."[25]
The geographical division between the eastern and western Iranians is often considered historically and currently to be the desert Dasht-e Kavir, situated in the center of the Iranian plateau.[citation needed]

[Seth MacFarlane]

Oh yea they do. All of these people can pass in Iran with no trouble.

I think he was saying no to South Asia , he agrees with iran

[Hadouken]

Wrong quote

:penisdance:

[Porn Master]

:penisdance:






http://scanca.net/netcat_files/Image/smiles/huy.gifhttp://scanca.net/netcat_files/Image/smiles/huy.gifhttp://scanca.net/netcat_files/Image/smiles/huy.gifhttp://scanca.net/netcat_files/Image/smiles/huy.gifhttp://scanca.net/netcat_files/Image/smiles/huy.gifhttp://scanca.net/netcat_files/Image/smiles/huy.gifhttp://scanca.net/netcat_files/Image/smiles/huy.gifhttp://scanca.net/netcat_files/Image/smiles/huy.gifhttp://scanca.net/netcat_files/Image/smiles/huy.gifhttp://scanca.net/netcat_files/Image/smiles/huy.gifhttp://scanca.net/netcat_files/Image/smiles/huy.gifhttp://scanca.net/netcat_files/Image/smiles/huy.gifhttp://scanca.net/netcat_files/Image/smiles/huy.gif

[Myanthropologies]

Yes ,Levant and Iraq.

YOU'RE BACK!! YAY!

[Myanthropologies]

Tajiks arent persianized pashtuns. They are responsible for reviving the persian identity and uniting Persian-speaking peoples. In fact, Heratis are genetically closer to people from East Iran.

According to Richard Nelson Frye, a leading historian of Iranian and Central Asian history, the Persian migration to Central Asia may be considered the beginning of the modern Tajik nation, and ethnic Persians, along with some elements of East-Iranian Bactrians and Sogdians, as the main ancestors of modern Tajiks.[24] In later works, Frye expands on the complexity of the historical origins of the Tajiks. In a 1996 publication, Frye explains that many "factors must be taken into account in explaining the evolution of the peoples whose remnants are the Tajiks in Central Asia" and that "the peoples of Central Asia, whether Iranian or Turkic speaking, have one culture, one religion, one set of social values and traditions with only language separating them."[25]
The geographical division between the eastern and western Iranians is often considered historically and currently to be the desert Dasht-e Kavir, situated in the center of the Iranian plateau.[citation needed]

Aren't people from Eastern Iranian really genetically close to pashtuns anyways ?

[Babak]

Aren't people from Eastern Iranian really genetically close to pashtuns anyways ?

They are, but not tribal pashtun groups. Specifically Heratis are though.

[Profileid]

Afghanistan isn't in the Middle East

[Sikeliot]

I used to think Afghanistan was similar to Pakistan but upon seeing genetic results and photos of them, I realize they are actually more like an eastern continuation of Iran (or rather, Iran and Afghanistan form a continuous Iranic sphere in which other groups like Kurds also belong). Afghans are predominantly Caucasian/West Asian in DNA, and if they are different than Kurds or Levantines it is due to higher Mesopotamian type affinities in Kurds and more Mediterranean and even African influences in Levantines.

[Myanthropologies]

Afghanistan isn't in the Middle East

Okay, Patrick

[Myanthropologies]

They are, but not tribal pashtun groups. Specifically Heratis are though.

Heratis are genetically close to pashtuns! I've seen one on anthrogenica before, so if they are close to Eastern Iranians than Afghan Pashtuns would be too.

[Babak]

Heratis are genetically close to pashtuns! I've seen one on anthrogenica before, so if they are close to Eastern Iranians than Afghan Pashtuns would be too.

Theres a reason why Heratis can easily mimic Iranian Persian accents while pashtuns cant. Afghan tajiks look a mix between natives and east iranians.

[Hadouken]

I used to think Afghanistan was similar to Pakistan but upon seeing genetic results and photos of them, I realize they are actually more like an eastern continuation of Iran (or rather, Iran and Afghanistan form a continuous Iranic sphere in which other groups like Kurds also belong). Afghans are predominantly Caucasian/West Asian in DNA, and if they are different than Kurds or Levantines it is due to higher Mesopotamian type affinities in Kurds and more Mediterranean and even African influences in Levantines.

havent you learned anything from what I ever said/showed dude ? you are a joke

[Sikeliot]

havent you learned anything from what I ever said/showed dude ? you are a joke

You act like you are the expert on everything and that everyone should bow down to your superior knowledge... you are right about some things but you do not have a monopoly on the truth. In my opinion, Afghans look similar to Caucasus people (and are actually close to Kurds whether you like it or not), and are not South Asians. The difference between Afghans and most Pakistanis is clear as day.

[Myanthropologies]

havent you learned anything from what I ever said/showed dude ? you are a joke


Please refer back to his because you never addressed this

I'm talking about West African, not SW Asian. Lebanese people score 5% West African which is 5x more foreign to West Asia and West Eurasia in general than ASI is, which afghans only score 5-7% of. You seemed to miss that, though. Lebanese may have less than 1% ASI, but afghans have less than 1% West African. Also, Chechens only have 10% Southwest Asian while the lebanese have 30%, that's a huge difference. Also, SW Asian masks red Sea behind it, which has additonal masked SSA blood. It is glaringly obvious that afghan and Chechen genetics are more similar than Lebanese and Chechen genetics are, the oracle itself even shows it, and as does the way I cluster on PCAs. I'm not too far from Lezgins on Chechens while the lebanese and Druze are all the way down there.

Afghans are held to a double-standard in this. Lebanese can score 5% West African (which is 5x more foreign to West Asia, and West Eurasia in general, than having 5-7% ASI is) and still be considered "West Asian"? Than can have 20% more SW Asian than Chechens and still be "West Asian"? Literally the only difference between the Afghan and Chechen sample is that the afghan scores 7% ASI% and around an equal percent amount less east med. Lebanese score 20% more SW Asian, and 5% WEST AFRICAN. The amount of eastern med in Chechens is in between what afghans and Lebanese get, not closer to what the lebanese get, and the rest of their components are closer to Afghans.

My point still remains that Afghans are more genetically closer to real West Asian than Levantines are.

[Mingle]

I used to think Afghanistan was similar to Pakistan but upon seeing genetic results and photos of them, I realize they are actually more like an eastern continuation of Iran (or rather, Iran and Afghanistan form a continuous Iranic sphere in which other groups like Kurds also belong). Afghans are predominantly Caucasian/West Asian in DNA, and if they are different than Kurds or Levantines it is due to higher Mesopotamian type affinities in Kurds and more Mediterranean and even African influences in Levantines.I heard that "upper caste" Indics like Jatts are on the same cline as Pashtuns & close to them on PCA plots. Does anyone know anything about this?

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

[Hadouken]

You act like you are the expert on everything and that everyone should bow down to your superior knowledge... you are right about some things but you do not have a monopoly on the truth. In my opinion, Afghans look similar to Caucasus people (and are actually close to Kurds whether you like it or not), and are not South Asians. The difference between Afghans and most Pakistanis is clear as day.

that was not what I meant but ok

there is no way in "stopping" you anyway ....

and I dont act like an expert on everything but when I know something for sure I say it and unlike many I back it up . and I know my people better than you . you dont see me say stuff about poles , portuguese , sicilians etc. except my own experiences with them and opinion . but I dont play the expert like you do on my people even though I proved you wrong many times

ah nevermind . fuck this shit haha :D good thing is that this trolly forum wont change reality in any way

[lameduck]

Theres a reason why Heratis can easily mimic Iranian Persian accents while pashtuns cant. Afghan tajiks look a mix between natives and east iranians.

Arent Tajiks mongoloid influenced aswell , Pashtuns have unique look with similarities to all Iranic people, high cast NW South asians and caucasian people, but its wrong to say Pashtuns look between iranian and South Asians(who themselves are extremely diverse)

[Myanthropologies]

I heard that "upper caste" Indics like Jatts are on the same cline as Pashtuns & close to them on PCA plots. Does anyone know anything about this?

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

No, pashtuns and Tajiks form their own distinct cline. Here is me on two different pca plots and two different calculators. Even the Pathans (pashtuns from Pakistan) are clearly distinct
http://i68.tinypic.com/5ck20w.png
http://i64.tinypic.com/t8s2hd.jpg

[Babak]

Arent Tajiks mongoloid influenced aswell , Pashtuns have unique look with similarities to all Iranic people, high cast NW South asians and caucasian people, but its wrong to say Pashtuns look between iranian and South Asians(who themselves are extremely diverse)

Saying they look in between is implying that they are unique in their looks. Persians, for example are in between caucasians and natives.

[Hadouken]

Saying they look in between is implying that they are unique in their looks. Persians, for example are in between caucasians and natives.

nope . saying they look in between is saying they look in between :D

[lameduck]

You act like you are the expert on everything and that everyone should bow down to your superior knowledge... you are right about some things but you do not have a monopoly on the truth. In my opinion, Afghans look similar to Caucasus people (and are actually close to Kurds whether you like it or not), and are not South Asians. The difference between Afghans and most Pakistanis is clear as day.

many Pakistani groups have affinity toward Afghans but many have dont but its safe to say that those Pakistanis have affinities toward Afghans rather Afghans have affinity toward South Asian. Also average caucasoid Afghan is lighter and more West Eurasian influenced than average East Pakistani.

[Myanthropologies]

Saying they look in between is implying that they are unique in their looks. Persians, for example are in between caucasians and natives.

Afghans don't look like their geography though. You've seen my family.

[Babak]

nope . saying they look in between is saying they look in between :D

Nah, it means they don't look like Iranians nor south asians, but resemble a blend of the two.

[Myanthropologies]

Nah, it means they don't look like Iranians nor south asians, but resemble a blend of the two.

But that's not what we look like bro.

[Hadouken]

Nah, it means they don't look like Iranians nor south asians.

it depends . in my experience persians have their own look btw. as I said often :D

btw. all afghan members I have seen looked very more "west" than one would think

Myanthro : passes as west as balkans or even a bit more north/west

Velvetnono : Jewish looking . can pass over all west asia imo , and atypical in south europe and balkans

owight gavnah : Kurdish , Armenian , passes as Cypriot

a girl from another forum I know and talked to : same as owight

a guy from another forum I know and talked to : Turk , Kurd , Lebanese , Cyprus

-

this alone proves that they are mispresented

[Myanthropologies]

Arent Tajiks mongoloid influenced aswell , Pashtuns have unique look with similarities to all Iranic people, high cast NW South asians and caucasian people, but its wrong to say Pashtuns look between iranian and South Asians(who themselves are extremely diverse)

Afghan Tajiks and Pashtuns aren't different from each other, I dont see why people try to separate them. Also, in Afghanistan, a lot of Pashtuns in certain places have been losing their Pashto and speaking Dari only, many of which, even identify as Tajik instead now.

[lameduck]

This is How many Pashtuns look , You can find people who can Pass in Caucasus , You can find People who can pass in Middle east and finally you can find people who can pass in NW South Asia.

http://i.dawn.com/large/2015/12/567eef9286ff0.jpg

[Mingle]

it depends . in my experience persians have their own look btw. as I said often :D

btw. all afghan members I have seen looked very more "west" than one would think

Myanthro : passes as west as balkans or even a bit more north/west

Velvetnono : Jewish looking . can pass over all west asia imo , and atypical in south europe and balkans

owight gavnah : Kurdish , Armenian , passes as Cypriot

a girl from another forum I know and talked to : same as owight

a guy from another forum I know and talked to : Turk , Kurd , Lebanese , Cyprus

-

this alone proves that they are mispresented

What about me?

[Mingle]

No, pashtuns and Tajiks form their own distinct cline. Here is me on two different pca plots and two different calculators. Even the Pathans (pashtuns from Pakistan) are clearly distinct
http://i68.tinypic.com/5ck20w.png
http://i64.tinypic.com/t8s2hd.jpg

Neither of those have South Asians, let alone Jatts.

[lameduck]

Afghan Tajiks and Pashtuns aren't different from each other, I dont see why people try to separate them. Also, in Afghanistan, a lot of Pashtuns in certain places have been losing their Pashto and speaking Dari only, many of which, even identify as Tajik instead now.

Thanks for clarification , I was reading somewhere that Tajiks in North Afghanistan can look quite mongoloid but I know non mongoloid Tajiks resemble iranians more than Pashtuns.

[Babak]

Afghan Tajiks and Pashtuns aren't different from each other, I dont see why people try to separate them. Also, in Afghanistan, a lot of Pashtuns in certain places have been losing their Pashto and speaking Dari only, many of which, even identify as Tajik instead now.

Then why can Heratis speak with an Iranian accent while others cant? Do you have any idea how many Tajiks i personally know who identify with being persian? They even wear Zoroastrian type necklaces and bracelets lol

[Hadouken]

What about me?

I dont remember you that well but if I remember right you fit well in Azerbaijan

[Myanthropologies]

Neither of those have South Asians, let alone Jatts.

But Brahui, balochi, and Makrani form a distinct cluster away from pashtuns, so I highly doubt Jatts would cluster with us. I don't buy the whole "there are pure high caste nw indians" thing, I think that's just racism.

[Mingle]

Then why can Heratis speak with an Iranian accent while others cant? Do you have any idea how many Tajiks i personally know who identify with being persian? They even wear Zoroastrian type necklaces and bracelets lol

He's not saying that Tajiks aren't Persian. They definitely are. He's just saying that their genetics are mainly East Iranian, similar to Pashtuns. If they were of Persian origin, then they should be closer to Iranian Persians than they are to Pashtuns. Those in northern Afghanistan are at least genetically East Iranian/Pashtun-like.

[Myanthropologies]

What about me?

You looked Tajik or Azeri.

[RN97]

Reminds me of the "Muh central Europe" thingy TBH.

[Sikeliot]

and I dont act like an expert on everything but when I know something for sure I say it and unlike many I back it up . and I know my people better than you . you dont see me say stuff about poles , portuguese , sicilians etc. except my own experiences with them and opinion . but I dont play the expert like you do on my people even though I proved you wrong many times

You do too make comments about Sicilians and Calabrese and accused me of cherrypicking their photos. These populations are closer to West Asians than to most Europeans, and whether or not they are on the continent of Europe means nothing.

[Myanthropologies]

Then why can Heratis speak with an Iranian accent while others cant? Do you have any idea how many Tajiks i personally know who identify with being persian? They even wear Zoroastrian type necklaces and bracelets lol

Don't get me wrong, irl, I identify as part persian myself (I'm 1/8 Afghan tajik), but our genetics are still close to that of Pashtuns

[Babak]

He's not saying that Tajiks aren't Persian. They definitely are. He's just saying that their genetics are mainly East Iranian, similar to Pashtuns. If they were of Persian origin, then they should be closer to Iranian Persians than they are to Pashtuns. Those in northern Afghanistan are at least genetically East Iranian/Pashtun-like.

Yea, northern ones are, i agree, but not heratis.

[Hadouken]

You do too make comments about Sicilians and Calabrese and accused me of cherrypicking their photos. These populations are closer to West Asians than to most Europeans, and whether or not they are on the continent of Europe means nothing.

I didnt accuse you . I just have the feeling you did because the "overlap with my people" (to put it in a dramatic way) was schocking me and I havent had the same experience with italians in real life as I said

there were just too many "familiar" faces in the thread (and some other threads) who look like people from my ancestral villages . that cant be "normal"....

[Myanthropologies]

Yea, northern ones are, i agree, but not heratis.

Heratis too. Eastern Persians themselves are very genetically similar to us, so nobody can say for sure.

[lameduck]

it depends . in my experience persians have their own look btw. as I said often :D

btw. all afghan members I have seen looked very more "west" than one would think

Myanthro : passes as west as balkans or even a bit more north/west

Velvetnono : Jewish looking . can pass over all west asia imo , and atypical in south europe and balkans

owight gavnah : Kurdish , Armenian , passes as Cypriot

a girl from another forum I know and talked to : same as owight

a guy from another forum I know and talked to : Turk , Kurd , Lebanese , Cyprus

-

this alone proves that they are mispresented

even many indian members i have seen are significantly lighter than how they are portrayed lol

[Sikeliot]

I didnt accuse you . I just have the feeling you did because the "overlap with my people" (to put it in a dramatic way) was schocking me and I havent had the same experience with italians in real life as I said

there were just too many "familiar" faces in the thread (and some other threads) who look like people from my ancestral villages . that cant be "normal"....


Again why shouldn't they look close? Calabrese are genetically closer to West Asians than to all other Europeans EXCEPT Bulgaria, Greece, Albania, and the rest of Italy.

[Babak]

Heratis too. Eastern Persians themselves are very genetically similar to us, so nobody can say for sure.

I believe heratis have some persian admixture tbh. Thats why they pull a bit away from pamiri tajiks

[Hadouken]

even many indian members i have seen are significantly lighter than how they are portrayed lol

most indian members I have seen looked very indian . I dont know what you are talking about :lol:

[JohnSmith]

Afghans don't look like their geography though. You've seen my family.

I do not remember what they look like. What part of Afghanistan are they from?

[Myanthropologies]

I do not remember what they look like. What part of Afghanistan are they from?

The eastern part lol. Though 1/8 comes from herat.

[Gangrel]

What about me?

wheres the pic famalam

[Mingle]

wheres the pic famalam

I just have this pic on my computer xD I don't have more pics (except like 1-3 on my phone), but I should probably get a classify thread soon (don't quote, just because):

https://i.imgur.com/IexZd7P.jpg

[Gangrel]

I just have this pic on my computer xD I don't have more pics (except like 1-3 on my phone), but I should probably get a classify thread soon (don't quote, just because):


Instantly saw Azerbaijan lol

[JohnSmith]

I just have this pic on my computer xD I don't have more pics (except like 1-3 on my phone), but I should probably get a classify thread soon (don't quote, just because):




Cool, you have an interesting look ,, you look quite Asian to me I suppose Central Asia like Uzbekistan.

[Mingle]

Instantly saw Azerbaijan lol

Could I pass as Turkish or Kurdish?

[Babak]

Mingle is such a cutie

[JohnSmith]

Mingle is such a cutie

He has very big eyes,,

[Sikeliot]

Also why do people say things like "Egyptians are close to West Asians" when they are 1/5 SSA -- not that this is anything bad to be SSA but for accuracy's sake it is hypocritical to hold Afghans to their 5% South Asian and not recognize a full fifth of Egyptian DNA -- but deny Afghans their place as West Asian people?

[Hadouken]

Also why do people say things like "Egyptians are close to West Asians" when they are 1/5 SSA -- not that this is anything bad to be SSA but for accuracy's sake it is hypocritical to hold Afghans to their 5% South Asian -- but deny Afghans their place as West Asian people?

afghans dont have 5% south asian . it is more like 25%

if you mean ASI then it is 7-11%

[JohnSmith]

afghans dont have 5% south asian . it is more like 25%

if you mean ASI then it is 7-11%

This seems right,, many Afghans look like a cross between Iranians and South Asians(Pakistanis)

[Sikeliot]

afghans dont have 5% south asian . it is more like 25%

if you mean ASI then it is 7-11%

Much of that "South Asian" component on Ancestry or 23andme has a lot of Caucasus DNA implicit in it. The ASI is the percentage to go by, as it measures the Australoid input, otherwise the rest of that "South Asian" DNA is Caucasus.

[Hadouken]

This seems right,, many Afghans look like a cross between Iranians and South Asians(Pakistanis)

many afghans look west asian and some even european

the south asian is mainly non ASI in them . and if you want to make them half south asian then the other half should be north caucasian and not iranian . they come out as half Chechen half Kashmiri etc

[Myanthropologies]

You are an Afghan American and your opinion may no be similar to the people who live in Afghanistan. Do majority of Afghans feel closer to Iranians or South Asians? I know Afghanistan and Iran are related to each other (historically and culturally), but history is history. If your people drop the similarities and connections, then what do you expect? I doubt that "Iranic/Iranian" identity has any significant role in Afghanistan. Per what I see and read on internet, it seems Afghan identity consisted of Islam and tribalism. Pashtuns hate all non-Pashtuns and try to Pashtunize the Afghanistan, Sunnis hate Shias, and ...

For many people, Afghanistan reminds them of Pakistan. This is an image which created by both media and your people/government. When we hear the name of Afghanistan, only Talibans come to our minds and not an ancient regions which is related to some old civilizations.


Actually, majoriry of my view comes from my parents, who are frm Afghanistan. They even feel ethnically closer to even Lebanese and Armenians. But they do somewhat feel close to certain groups in NW India, namely Kashmiris.

Taliban =/= Afghanistan.

[JohnSmith]

many afghans look west asian and some even european

the south asian is mainly non ASI in them . and if you want to make them half south asian then the other half should be north caucasian and not iranian . they come out as half Chechen half Kashmiri etc

Rarely have I seen Afghans that look European,, it does happen I am sure.

[Seth MacFarlane]

Mingle you look azeri , armenian

[Hadouken]

Much of that "South Asian" component on Ancestry or 23andme has a lot of Caucasus DNA implicit in it. The ASI is the percentage to go by, as it measures the Australoid input, otherwise the rest of that "South Asian" DNA is Caucasus.

it is not Caucasus . it is not from the Caucasus . but caucasoid

and I was talking about gedmatch not 23andme or ancestry

[Gangrel]

Could I pass as Turkish or Kurdish?

Nah not really

[Myanthropologies]

afghans dont have 5% south asian . it is more like 25%

if you mean ASI then it is 7-11%

The average afghan is 7-8% ASI. And most of that 1/4 "south asian" is masked west asian and even slightly masked steppe ancestry. In reality afghans are not more asi than Lebanese are SSA, and SSA is even more foreign to West Eurasia than ASI is.

[Myanthropologies]

it is not Caucasus . it is not from the Caucasus . but caucasoid

and I was talking about gedmatch not 23andme or ancestry

It is zagros, which is basically Caucasus/West Asian.

[Myanthropologies]

Rarely have I seen Afghans that look European,, it does happen I am sure.

Do you even know afghans irl?

[wvwvw]

Afghans overlap with some Iranians, Tajikistanis, Kalash, North Pakistani groups but I can't see any similarities with other West Asian groups. They have a distinct look. Even the Kurds and Iranians who are both Iranic have distinct looks, they don't look awfully similar.

[Myanthropologies]

This seems right,, many Afghans look like a cross between Iranians and South Asians(Pakistanis)

That's not how we look, actually.

[Hadouken]

The average afghan is 7-8% ASI. And most of that 1/4 "south asian" is masked west asian and even slightly masked steppe ancestry. In reality afghans are not more asi than Lebanese are SSA, and SSA is even more foreign to West Eurasia than ASI is.

the 2 kits of afghans I have score 7% . I checked owight gavnahs thread and it ranges from 7 to roughly 10 % . and the spreadsheet of Eurasia K9 has pashtun afghan at 9% and Ancient Eurasia K6 has the ASE for afhan pashtun at 11.61 % . so yes I am right with roughly 7-11 % . lets make it 7-9 .... lebanese have less ssa than that if I remember right . would need to check but pretty sure

how much do you score btw. if you dont mind me asking ? eurasia k9 and AE K6

[Hadouken]

Afghans overlap with some Iranians, Tajikistanis, Kalash, North Pakistani groups but I can't see any similarities with other West Asian groups. They have a distinct look. Even the Kurds and Iranians who are both Iranic have distinct looks, they don't look awfully similar.

many Iranians dont fit well among us as I said before . "Iranic" doesnt mean anything in this regard other than sharing some things

[JohnSmith]

Do you even know afghans irl?

Just the ones I see from the Afghanistan war and the ones that are refugees in going to Europe. I watched a foreign movie about a Afghan trying to get to Europe years ago.

The Pulse shooter was an Afghan American. He did not look white(European) I would think his look his typical am I wrong?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Omar_Mateen.jpg

[Myanthropologies]

the 2 kits of afghans I have score 7% . I checked owight gavnahs thread and it ranges from 7 to roughly 10 % . and the spreadsheet of Eurasia K9 has pashtun afghan at 9% and Ancient Eurasia K6 has the ASE for afhan pashtun at 11.61 % . so yes I am right with roughly 7-11 % . lets make it 7-9 .... lebanese have less ssa than that if I remember right . would need to check but pretty sure

how much do you score btw. if you dont mind me asking ? eurasia k9 and AE K6

The average was 7 or 8%. I scored 8%. And Lebanese people score between 5-9% West African DNA, even the example you shared had 5% West african. Having 5% West African DNA has a greater pull effect than having 8% ASI, because the West African component is 5x further from West Eurasia and West Asia than ASI is.

[Myanthropologies]

Just the ones I see from the Afghanistan war and the ones that are refugees in going to Europe. I watched a foreign movie about a Afghan trying to get to Europe years ago.

The Pulse shooter was an Afghan American. He did not look white I would think his look his typical am I wrong?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Omar_Mateen.jpg

He looks Levantine tbh. I've posted my family members before and we all have diverse looks. Almost all the afghans that post here fit in West asian countries, except people have told me I fit in the Balkans. If afghans truly did look in between south asians and iranians on average, we would have seen one on this forum by now, but we haven't. All of the ones who posted here looked either Levantine, Iranian, Turkish, Azeri, Kurdish, or European. This is not to say that south asian looking afghans don't exist. I have a cousin who looks pretty indian and is very brown, but that's not a common look.

[Gangrel]

Just the ones I see from the Afghanistan war and the ones that are refugees in going to Europe. I watched a foreign movie about a Afghan trying to get to Europe years ago.

The Pulse shooter was an Afghan American. He did not look white(European) I would think his look his typical am I wrong?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Omar_Mateen.jpg

looks paki

[wvwvw]

Just the ones I see from the Afghanistan war and the ones that are refugees in going to Europe. I watched a foreign movie about a Afghan trying to get to Europe years ago.

The Pulse shooter was an Afghan American. He did not look white(European) I would think his look his typical am I wrong?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Omar_Mateen.jpg

This guy does look Lebanese actually

[JohnSmith]

This guy does look Lebanese actually

He looks like he could fit anywhere in the Middle East to me. I have seen Pakistanis that look this way also.

[Myanthropologies]

looks paki

I disagre. He looks like some sort of arab.

[Gangrel]

I disagre. He looks like some sort of arab.

He can pass as both but living in the UK you can imagine how many Pakis I have seen. He would easily pass as a Paki

[JohnSmith]

I disagre. He looks like some sort of arab.

He does look more Arab. He could pass as a lighter South Asian but most MENA I think can pass in many cases.

[Hadouken]

The average was 7 or 8%. I scored 8%. And Lebanese people score between 5-9% West African DNA, even the example you shared had 5% West african. Having 5% West African DNA has a greater pull effect than having 8% ASI, because the West African component is 5x further from West Eurasia and West Asia than ASI is.

ASE is basically the ssa of the east :D . both are foreign

the afghan kit has more ASE than the Lebanese has ssa

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 36.28
2 Natufian 35.84
3 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 11.32
4 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 10.97
5 East_Asian 4.95
6 Sub_Saharan 0.64

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Pashtun_Afghan 6.37
2 Kalash 9.49
3 Tajik 9.69
4 Pathan 10.07
5 Kurd_SE 10.86
6 Balochi 12.48
7 Makrani 12.59
8 Brahui 12.8
9 Iran_N_WC1 12.83
10 Baloch_Iranian 12.83
11 Iran_recent 12.91
12 Iran_N 12.92
13 Iranian_Shirazi 13.09
14 Iranian_Mazandarani 13.21
15 Lezgin 13.69
16 Chechen 14.13
17 Kumyk 14.34
18 Iranian 14.43
19 Iran_ChL 14.56
20 Sindhi 14.68


--

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Natufian 50.77
2 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 25.15
3 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 15.92
4 Sub_Saharan 7.39
5 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 0.78

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian 3.05
2 Jordanian 4.55
3 Lebanese 4.84
4 Palestinian 5.82
5 Druze 7.33
6 BedouinA 7.33
7 Cypriot 9.63
8 Jew_Tunisian 9.99
9 Jew_iraqi 10.19
10 Saudi 10.31
11 Assyrian 10.42
12 Armenia_ChL 10.44
13 Jew_Moroccan 10.64
14 Jew_Iranian 10.66
15 Turkish 10.68
16 Jew_Yemenite 11
17 Jew_Libyan 11.04
18 Georgian 11.3
19 Azeri 12.27
20 Adygei 12.32


--

but ok mate take it as you want and I respect your opinion . continue I wont try to correct you or anything anymore :)

[Myanthropologies]

He can pass as both but living in the UK you can imagine how many Pakis I have seen. He would easily pass as a Paki

Pakistani is a nationality though, not an ethnicity. It is more than likely that the paki people you see aren't all the same ethnicity.

[Gangrel]

Pakistani is a nationality though, not an ethnicity. It is more than likely that the paki people you see aren't all the same ethnicity.

dont think there are many lebanese pakis around

[lameduck]

mingle , you are such a cutie , i think you look pontid/alpine

[JohnSmith]

Pakistani is a nationality though, not an ethnicity. It is more than likely that the paki people you see aren't all the same ethnicity.

Most people do not get that complex. Most Westerners rightly or wrongly will not make specific distinctions among MENA and South Asian people unless it is very obvious.

[lameduck]

Pakistani is a nationality though, not an ethnicity. It is more than likely that the paki people you see aren't all the same ethnicity.

but UK is like mini Pakistan when it comes to diversity , you can see every type of Paki there , also most Pakistanis in diaspora are from Eastern part of country.

[Gangrel]

but UK is like mini Pakistan , you can see every type of Paki there , also most Pakistanis in diaspora are from Eastern part of country.

this guy can pass as pakistani right?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Omar_Mateen.jpg

[Babak]

this guy can pass as pakistani right?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Omar_Mateen.jpg

I know a lot of pakis have eyes that droop like that tbh.

[lameduck]

this guy can pass as pakistani right?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Omar_Mateen.jpg

yeah he can but some features are also more arab like.

[Gangrel]

I know a lot of pakis have eyes that droop like that tbh.

negative canthal tilt make me sick

[Myanthropologies]

ASE is basically the ssa of the east :D . both are foreign

the afghan kit has more ASE than the Lebanese has ssa

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 36.28
2 Natufian 35.84
3 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 11.32
4 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 10.97
5 East_Asian 4.95
6 Sub_Saharan 0.64

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Pashtun_Afghan 6.37
2 Kalash 9.49
3 Tajik 9.69
4 Pathan 10.07
5 Kurd_SE 10.86
6 Balochi 12.48
7 Makrani 12.59
8 Brahui 12.8
9 Iran_N_WC1 12.83
10 Baloch_Iranian 12.83
11 Iran_recent 12.91
12 Iran_N 12.92
13 Iranian_Shirazi 13.09
14 Iranian_Mazandarani 13.21
15 Lezgin 13.69
16 Chechen 14.13
17 Kumyk 14.34
18 Iranian 14.43
19 Iran_ChL 14.56
20 Sindhi 14.68


--

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Natufian 50.77
2 Ancestral_North_Eurasian 25.15
3 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 15.92
4 Sub_Saharan 7.39
5 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 0.78

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Syrian 3.05
2 Jordanian 4.55
3 Lebanese 4.84
4 Palestinian 5.82
5 Druze 7.33
6 BedouinA 7.33
7 Cypriot 9.63
8 Jew_Tunisian 9.99
9 Jew_iraqi 10.19
10 Saudi 10.31
11 Assyrian 10.42
12 Armenia_ChL 10.44
13 Jew_Moroccan 10.64
14 Jew_Iranian 10.66
15 Turkish 10.68
16 Jew_Yemenite 11
17 Jew_Libyan 11.04
18 Georgian 11.3
19 Azeri 12.27
20 Adygei 12.32


--

but ok mate take it as you want and I respect your opinion . continue I wont try to correct you or anything anymore :)

See, you're holding the afghans to double standard again. You're comparing an outlier to a Lebanese person. I'm sure if you wanted to, you could find a Lebanese person who scores more than 7% SSA, too.

And no, ASE is not the "SSA of the east." They are not comparable. ASE at least still has some caucasoid in it, even if little, and SSA doesn't. Even if ASE and SSA are both foreign to West Asia and West Eurasia, it is a fact that SSA is still 3x more foreign than ASE is. SSA is as foreign as you get. Therefore it will have 3x the pull factor that having 7 or even 9% ASE DNA will. There is hardly a difference between 7 and 9%, Lebanese are on average roughly the same amount of SSA as Afghans are ASE (as you have said, the average is 9% ASE for Afghans, and some even score 7-8%, like myself). And since the SSA in Lebanese is proportional to the ASE in Afghans, that still means Lebanese have more of a pull factor away because Ssa is 3x more foreign, hence why I cluster far closer to real West asians. People wanna sit here and act like the south asian dna is the biggest separating factor between afghans and Mesopotamian-West Asian hybrids, when in reality, it's their Mesopotamian dna that is highly different. If afghans had the same amount ASE but had increased Mesopotamian, then they would cluster closer to Kurds than they do now.

[Hadouken]

See, you're holding the afghans to double standard again. You're comparing an outlier to a Lebanese person. I'm sure if you wanted to, you could find a Lebanese person who scores more than 7% SSA, too.

And no, ASE is not the "SSA of the east." They are not comparable. ASE at least still has some caucasoid in it, even if little, and SSA doesn't. Even if ASE and SSA are both foreign to West Asia and West Eurasia, it is a fact that SSA is still 3x more foreign than ASE is. SSA is as foreign as you get. Therefore it will have 3x the pull factor that having 7 or even 9% ASE DNA will. There is hardly a difference between 7 and 9%, Lebanese are on average roughly the same amount of SSA as Afghans are ASE (as you have said, the average is 9% ASE for Afghans, and some even score 7-8%, like myself). And since the SSA in Lebanese is proportional to the ASE in Afghans, that still means Lebanese have more of a pull factor away because Ssa is 3x more foreign, hence why I cluster far closer to real West asians. People wanna sit here and act like the south asian dna is the biggest separating factor between afghans and Mesopotamian-West Asian hybrids, when in reality, it's their Mesopotamian dna that is highly different. If afghans had the same amount ASE but had increased Mesopotamian, then they would cluster closer to Kurds than they do now.

that afghan guy is no outlier at all . it is the same kit nr. I used the whole thread btw.

ASE is pure australoid . it is based on papuans , australian aborigines , andamanese . no caucasoid in it

and wtf is "mesopotamian" xD what component is this supposed to be

[Gangrel]

.

wrong guy

[Myanthropologies]

that afghan guy is no outlier at all . it is the same kit nr. I used the whole thread btw.

ASE is pure australoid . it is based on papuans , australian aborigines , andamanese . no caucasoid in it

and wtf is "mesopotamian" xD what component is this supposed to be

Whatever the calculator is, it doesn't seem accurate. Afghans are more WHG than Lebanese people are, and Afghans are not 35% natufian. ASI k9 is far more accurate, and there the average afghan scores 9% ASE, and I only get 8%, while Lebanese people get 5-7% SSA, so those ranges overlap and my point remains.

Pure papauns have come out 19% CHG on gedmatch runs before.

My point still remains.

[Hadouken]

Whatever the calculator is, it doesn't seem accurate. Afghans are more WHG than Lebanese people are, and Afghans are not 35% natufian. ASI k9 is far more accurate, and there the average afghan scores 9% ASE, and I only get 8%, while Lebanese people get 5-7% SSA, so those ranges overlap and my point remains.

Pure papauns. have come out 19% CHG on gedmatch runs before.

My point still remains.

I dont like that calculator much either . but it is good to determine australoid because as I said the ASE is 100% based on papuan/australian/andamanese

australian aborigine :

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 90.27
2 East_Asian 5.69
3 Sub_Saharan 3.24
4 Natufian 0.42
5 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 0.39


you still havent told me what "mesopotamian" is supposed to be :)

[JohnSmith]

There people are from the Afghan American Conference, so they are Afghan Americans. They look like they can fit from the Near East all the way to Pakistan to me.

They have a large range they can pass in:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/56a2ec72cbced637fea96241/t/5778842e9f74561e51107b88/1467515976187/12080332_10206941637211613_7693925317135007995_o.j pg?format=500w

[Myanthropologies]

I dont like that calculator much either . but it is good to determine australoid because as I said the ASE is 100% based on papuan/australian/andamanese

you still havent told me what "mesopotamian" is supposed to be :)

Mesopotamian is like east med, and the other calculators still has more specific categories, thus factoring out more proxies.

[Hadouken]

Mesopotamian is like east med, and the other calculators still has more specific categories, thus factoring out more proxies.

there is no component such as mesopotamian lol

ok east med you mean . got it

[Myanthropologies]

There people are from the Afghan American Conference, so they are Afghan Americans. They look like they can fit from the Near East all the way to Pakistan to me.

They have a large range they can pass in:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/56a2ec72cbced637fea96241/t/5778842e9f74561e51107b88/1467515976187/12080332_10206941637211613_7693925317135007995_o.j pg?format=500w

The afghan american conference had a lot of Iranians, pakistanis, and even white americans, attend too.

[JohnSmith]

The afghan american conference had a lot of Iranians, pakistanis, and even white americans, attend too.

They all look the same I think to a certain degree.

[Babak]

There people are from the Afghan American Conference, so they are Afghan Americans. They look like they can fit from the Near East all the way to Pakistan to me.

They have a large range they can pass in:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/56a2ec72cbced637fea96241/t/5778842e9f74561e51107b88/1467515976187/12080332_10206941637211613_7693925317135007995_o.j pg?format=500w

Id shag the one on the way right

[Myanthropologies]

They all look the same I think to a certain degree.

No we don't

[Myanthropologies]

I dont like that calculator much either . but it is good to determine australoid because as I said the ASE is 100% based on papuan/australian/andamanese

australian aborigine :

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Ancestral_South_Eurasian 90.27
2 East_Asian 5.69
3 Sub_Saharan 3.24
4 Natufian 0.42
5 West_European_Hunter_Gartherer 0.39


you still havent told me what "mesopotamian" is supposed to be :)

This is what an 100% pure Australian gets on the eurasia k9 asi calculator
Melanesian Gedmatch

1 SE_Asian 41.49
2 Ancestral_South_Indian 24.97
3 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 17.87
4 W_African 8.2
5 Siberian_E_Asian 7.47

[Hadouken]

This is what an 100% pure Australian gets on the eurasia k9 asi calculator
Melanesian Gedmatch

1 SE_Asian 41.49
2 Ancestral_South_Indian 24.97
3 Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 17.87
4 W_African 8.2
5 Siberian_E_Asian 7.47

melanesians are different I think

but yes proves my point . ASE on K6 is pure or almost pure australoid

andamanese and papuan score 100% on the spreadsheet

and as you see the australian aborigine scores 90%

there is not much to discuss anymore tbh . wtf

[Myanthropologies]

melanesians are different I think

but yes proves my point . ASE on K6 is pure or almost pure australoid

andamanese and papuan score 100% on the spreadsheet

and as you see the australian aborigine scores 90%

there is not much to discuss anymore tbh . wtf

That person was from Melanesia, but they were pure aboriginal, so my point still remains. You should give me the kit number to the andamanese so we can see what they get in Eurasia k9. Just because a component was maximized in a population doesn't mean anything. You could maximize a component in Afghans and I would come out 100% "Afghan " on that calculator. However, that wouldn't tell you what I actually break down to.

[Root]

back in the 80s Pashtuns kicked russkiy invader's ass out of Afghanistan, same was with the British.. you came with a weapon? Wait for the consequences, then. Mess with the best, die like the rest :thumb001:

[Hadouken]

That person was from Melanesia, but they were pure aboriginal, so my point still remains. You should give me the kit number to the andamanese so we can see what they get in Eurasia k9. Just because a component was maximized in a population doesn't mean anything. You could maximize a component in Afghans and I would come out 100% "Afghan " on that calculator. However, that wouldn't tell you what I actually break down to.

it is already broken down . how much more do you want to break it down ? :D aaaaaw man come on . when you have the component based on a population then the percentage you score of that component shows your similarity to that population .

I dont have an andamanese kit nr. . that was an australian aborigine and his kit nr. is Z905945

[Babak]

back in the 80s Pashtuns kicked russkiy invader's ass out of Afghanistan, same was with the British.. you came with a weapon? Wait for the consequences, then. Mess with the best, die like the rest :thumb001:

Nobody can conquer pashtuns, not even the west can do it

https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e35/11192574_1610639309214430_379799213_n.jpg?ig_cache _key=MTA0MTE2Mzk4MzM2NzI0MTM0MA%3D%3D.2

http://pason.at/pushto/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/malalai.jpg

[Myanthropologies]

it is already broken down . how much more do you want to break it down ? :D aaaaaw man come on . when you have the component based on a population then the percentage you score of that component shows your similarity to that population .

I dont have an andamanese kit nr. . that was an australian aborigine and his kit nr. is Z905945

If a component is maximized to someone, that means that it they will score 100%, and it doesnt show you what they're actually made up of. I could maximize a component to Afghans and come out 100% afghan, but that doesn't show you what I break down into.

ASI K9 shows that Australian aborigine kit to be similar to the Melanesian
Population
SE_Asian 32.94
Early_Neolithic_Farmers -
SW_Asian 3.34
Ancestral_South_Indian 28.99
Eastern_Hunter_Gatherer 1.11
WHG 1.75
Siberian_E_Asian 5.26
Caucausus_Hunter_Gatherer 16.47
W_African 10.15
Oracle
Oracle-4

Spreadsheet



Now let's compare this to what a west African would get. ASE at least has a 16-19% affinity to West Asian/West Eurasian populations while W. African does not, and is 3x more foreign. If Lebanese people score 5-8% SSA (which is three times more foreign), and most Afghans around 7-9% ASE, then there is a clear double standard towards Afghans here. You freely consider both the Irish and a sicilians "European" even though there is 3x more genetic distance between Irish and Sicilians than between afghans and literally any west asian group, and consider Lebanese west asian even though they're 5-7% SSA. You seem to base west asian-ness on whoever is most similar to your people, as if she are the benchmark of West Asian-ness, but that's not the case. Afghans are far closer to real West asians than Levantines are, and they can arguably be considered genetically West asian, especially when what we consider "genetically European" encompasses a greater variety (i.e Finns to Sicilians ).

[JohnSmith]

No we don't

Why